Domain: freebsd.org
Stories and comments across the archive that link to freebsd.org.
Comments · 3,599
-
Re:FreeBSD portability
Yes. FreeBSD's driver configuration and stacking model goes beyond what NetBSD's does. While FreeBSD picked up bus_space and busdma from NetBSD, it has its own configuration and driver interface (dubbed 'newbus'). It is tree structured, and the bus layer at each node controls device identification and runs the 'auction' of an identified device to all the possible drivers. The pci bus stack happily runs under acpi enumeration or via direct configuration registers - the drivers themselves have no knowledge of where they are. For all they know, they could be on an emulated pci bus on the wrong side of a very creative usb bridge.
:) All the driver cares about is 'give me my resources'.
A light overview is here (The article has some inaccuracies though, new-bus was designed by Doug Rabson, not obtained from NetBSD).
If you dont have a FreeBSD system, you can follow the cross references here and here. -
Re:FreeBSD portability
Yes. FreeBSD's driver configuration and stacking model goes beyond what NetBSD's does. While FreeBSD picked up bus_space and busdma from NetBSD, it has its own configuration and driver interface (dubbed 'newbus'). It is tree structured, and the bus layer at each node controls device identification and runs the 'auction' of an identified device to all the possible drivers. The pci bus stack happily runs under acpi enumeration or via direct configuration registers - the drivers themselves have no knowledge of where they are. For all they know, they could be on an emulated pci bus on the wrong side of a very creative usb bridge.
:) All the driver cares about is 'give me my resources'.
A light overview is here (The article has some inaccuracies though, new-bus was designed by Doug Rabson, not obtained from NetBSD).
If you dont have a FreeBSD system, you can follow the cross references here and here. -
Wow! Microsoft matches open source on price ...... for customers it couldn't sell to anyway.
There are already better options out there:
And I can have them all installed on a new system in a few minutes, without any fear of licensing issues at all. If Microsoft has enough money to buy SCO a win in its lawsuit, we just switch to an OS they can't touch because AT&T already lost the fight.. -
The CIA needs more girls like this!
How can BSD be dying when it has a mascot like this?! Linux needs to get its act together if it's going to compete with the kind of hot chicks and gorgeous babes that BSD has to offer!
You just can't take Linux seriously when its fronted by losers like these. You Linux groupies need to find some sexy girls like her! I mean just look at this girl! Doesn't she make you hard? I know this little hottie floats my boat! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy little cock teaser. Even this old bearded Unix guru is apparently unable to take his eyes off her!
With sexy chicks like the lovely Ceren you will have people queuing up to buy open source products. Look! This guy can't get in there fast enough with her in the doorway! Come on, you must admit she is better than an overweight penguin! Don't you wish you could get one of these? Join the campaign for more cute open source babes today! -
The CIA needs more girls like this!
How can BSD be dying when it has a mascot like this?! Linux needs to get its act together if it's going to compete with the kind of hot chicks and gorgeous babes that BSD has to offer!
You just can't take Linux seriously when its fronted by losers like these. You Linux groupies need to find some sexy girls like her! I mean just look at this girl! Doesn't she make you hard? I know this little hottie floats my boat! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy little cock teaser. Even this old bearded Unix guru is apparently unable to take his eyes off her!
With sexy chicks like the lovely Ceren you will have people queuing up to buy open source products. Look! This guy can't get in there fast enough with her in the doorway! Come on, you must admit she is better than an overweight penguin! Don't you wish you could get one of these? Join the campaign for more cute open source babes today! -
Here's one .org that could really use MS freeware!
These guys really could use all of the help they can get!
-
This girl is definitely speedy enough!
How can BSD be dying when it has a mascot like this?! Linux needs to get its act together if it's going to compete with the kind of hot chicks and gorgeous babes that BSD has to offer!
You just can't take Linux seriously when its fronted by losers like these. You Linux groupies need to find some sexy girls like her! I mean just look at this girl! Doesn't she make you hard? I know this little hottie floats my boat! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy little cock teaser. Even this old bearded Unix guru is apparently unable to take his eyes off her!
With sexy chicks like the lovely Ceren you will have people queuing up to buy open source products. Look! This guy can't get in there fast enough with her in the doorway! Come on, you must admit she is better than an overweight penguin! Join the campaign for more cute open source babes today! -
This girl is definitely speedy enough!
How can BSD be dying when it has a mascot like this?! Linux needs to get its act together if it's going to compete with the kind of hot chicks and gorgeous babes that BSD has to offer!
You just can't take Linux seriously when its fronted by losers like these. You Linux groupies need to find some sexy girls like her! I mean just look at this girl! Doesn't she make you hard? I know this little hottie floats my boat! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy little cock teaser. Even this old bearded Unix guru is apparently unable to take his eyes off her!
With sexy chicks like the lovely Ceren you will have people queuing up to buy open source products. Look! This guy can't get in there fast enough with her in the doorway! Come on, you must admit she is better than an overweight penguin! Join the campaign for more cute open source babes today! -
For a bit more informationHere is a commit message, which lists what is and isn't working yet. There are still some loose ends (as the message states), but things appear to be coming along quickly.
-Ed
-
still tier two architecture
The ia64 is considered a tier 2 architecture, and as such isn't on the release engineering teams radar yet. Once the tool-chain is self-hosting, aka the ia64 can nativly build the entire world+GENERIC kernel, then it will be considered for a tier 1 migration. This tid-bit of info just means that the ia64 is built on a cross build (with i386 gcc probably). The next step is to take these bits, and install them on real ia64 hardware, and attempt building the tool chain there. A lot of this work hinges on the need to have gcc 3.2 working on ia64, and I hear that there is still a bunch of work to be done in that area before the compiler produces quality code. What would be nice is to import the NetBSD code to the AMD64 stuff, but we need to more unity in the -CURRENt FreeBSD source tree before adding yet another arch. Whats nice is that bus-dma will allow drivers for one arch to work in others with minimal fuss, in theory anyways.
;) -
Re:cost of backup + admin?
Third thing after backup space and admin cost is a balance between processing power and storage space. More space you use - more CPU (in average) you need, so there no reason to put more than 2x120Gb (one HDD for backup and and one for user data) to typical hosting server (Linux/FreeBSD, 2GHz CPU, 512Mb RAM). Maximum domains is about 300 per server, to keep CPU load at 0.3-0.4, Ok, OS requires about 5-10 Gb, another 10Gb we hold for reserve and 100Gb we will use for customers data. This means that we can offer 100Gb/300 hosts = only 300MB (!) for one host includes web content, database and email files.
-
Torrent for MiniDist ISO (please mod up)
I've put a torrent up for the MiniDist ISO:
ftp://ftp3.freebsd.org/pub/torrents/5.1-BETA2-i386 -miniinst.iso.torrent
-
SCO cannot fight the power of BSD!
Bow down and worship the goddess of BSD!
You Linux-using fags cannot possibly comprehend the beauty of the one true goddess!
See how a true believer honors her. Take another look at the proper way to show your devotion to the divine babe of BSD!
There is truly no hope for Linux as long as the lovely Ceren smiles upon us! -
Re:tag ?
Using cvsup, I suppose the tag should be RELENG_5_1. However, using this tag it just removes the contents of my
/usr/src folder.There is no such branch; snapshots are not branched. Nor are they tagged.
Until -stable will be split off around 5.2 release, it's still HEAD, or for the purpose of cvsup, tag=.
There is already a RELENG_5_0 for 5.0-RELEASE patches. There will be a RELENG_5_1 branch created around the end of the month.
-
There are no legal snags with the BSD Babe!
How can BSD be dying when it has a mascot like this?! Linux needs to get its act together if it's going to compete with the kind of hot chicks and gorgeous babes that BSD has to offer!
You just can't take Linux seriously when its fronted by losers like these. You Linux groupies need to find some sexy girls like her! I mean just look at this girl! Doesn't she make you hard? I know this little hottie floats my boat! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy little cock teaser. Even this old bearded Unix guru is apparently unable to take his eyes off her!
With sexy chicks like the lovely Ceren you will have people queuing up to buy open source products. Look! This guy can't get in there fast enough with her in the doorway! Come on, you must admit she is better than an overweight penguin! Join the campaign for more cute open source babes today! -
There are no legal snags with the BSD Babe!
How can BSD be dying when it has a mascot like this?! Linux needs to get its act together if it's going to compete with the kind of hot chicks and gorgeous babes that BSD has to offer!
You just can't take Linux seriously when its fronted by losers like these. You Linux groupies need to find some sexy girls like her! I mean just look at this girl! Doesn't she make you hard? I know this little hottie floats my boat! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy little cock teaser. Even this old bearded Unix guru is apparently unable to take his eyes off her!
With sexy chicks like the lovely Ceren you will have people queuing up to buy open source products. Look! This guy can't get in there fast enough with her in the doorway! Come on, you must admit she is better than an overweight penguin! Join the campaign for more cute open source babes today! -
Re:Of course...
Not completely true. It's called beta because it are the test-CD images for the 5.1 release.
No; see the schedule. You're thinking of 5.1-RC1 (the "release candidate").
-Ed
-
Re:When will it end ??
Take a look at FreeBSD. It's what Linux wants to be when it grows up (-1 flamebait). A comment I got recently when I showed it to a friend was 'Hey, this isn't like Linux at all. It has documentation!' And most of the documentation seems to be well written.
-
Re:amazingly, the world of gentooI have yet to see any *BSD install docs that rise to that level.
Have you even seen the freebsd handbook? That's one of FreeBSD's greatest strengths, its solid documentation.
-
Re:Microsoft can't dominate the BSD Babe!
You're right - here it is in her own words.
-
Sorry, forgot links...
I couldn't remember where I'd read about the Novell/UC Berkley licensing issue, here it is in the FreeBSD handbook (an amazingly thorough book!). A little history.
-
Bike Shed reference
For those who are left in the dark, the bike shed reference is the following:
16.19. Why should I care what color the bikeshed is?
The really, really short answer is that you should not. The somewhat longer answer is that just because you are capable of building a bikeshed does not mean you should stop others from building one just because you do not like the color they plan to paint it. This is a metaphor indicating that you need not argue about every little feature just because you know enough to do so. Some people have commented that the amount of noise generated by a change is inversely proportional to the complexity of the change.
More details at the link.
-
SCO can't drop the BSD babe!
How can BSD be dying when it has a mascot like this?! Linux needs to get its act together if it's going to compete with the kind of hot chicks and gorgeous babes that BSD has to offer!
You just can't take Linux seriously when its fronted by losers like these. You Linux groupies need to find some sexy girls like her! I mean just look at this girl! Doesn't she make you hard? I know this little hottie floats my boat! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy little cock teaser. Even this old bearded Unix guru is apparently unable to take his eyes off her!
Join the campaign for more cute open source babes today! -
SCO can't drop the BSD babe!
How can BSD be dying when it has a mascot like this?! Linux needs to get its act together if it's going to compete with the kind of hot chicks and gorgeous babes that BSD has to offer!
You just can't take Linux seriously when its fronted by losers like these. You Linux groupies need to find some sexy girls like her! I mean just look at this girl! Doesn't she make you hard? I know this little hottie floats my boat! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy little cock teaser. Even this old bearded Unix guru is apparently unable to take his eyes off her!
Join the campaign for more cute open source babes today! -
Microsoft can't dominate the BSD Babe!
How can BSD be dying when it has a mascot like this?! Linux needs to get its act together if it's going to compete with the kind of hot chicks and gorgeous babes that BSD has to offer!
You just can't take Linux seriously when its fronted by losers like these. You Linux groupies need to find some sexy girls like her! I mean just look at this girl! Doesn't she make you hard? I know this little hottie floats my boat! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy little cock teaser. Even this old bearded Unix guru is apparently unable to take his eyes off her!
Join the campaign for more cute open source babes today! -
Microsoft can't dominate the BSD Babe!
How can BSD be dying when it has a mascot like this?! Linux needs to get its act together if it's going to compete with the kind of hot chicks and gorgeous babes that BSD has to offer!
You just can't take Linux seriously when its fronted by losers like these. You Linux groupies need to find some sexy girls like her! I mean just look at this girl! Doesn't she make you hard? I know this little hottie floats my boat! This guy looks like he is about to cream his pants standing next to such a fox. As you can see, no man can resist this sexy little cock teaser. Even this old bearded Unix guru is apparently unable to take his eyes off her!
Join the campaign for more cute open source babes today! -
Re:how up to date?"One thing I'd really like to know is how up to date it is".
Ports! They are your friend.
Keep in mind your Fbsd 5.0 cd has and some of the ports are broken so beware. This is because its only a technical release so be warned with them!
Anyway, cd /usr/ports/x11-wm/kde-base3.1. As root in the directory type make install clean. Your done! I am using Win2k right now so I do not have the exact directory names. If you can not find kde 3.1 in the ports you can download a new ports tree. Unzip it at /usr so it will replace your current ports tree. Then you will probably find kde3.1.
Keep in mind the only available ports tree for 5.0 is current aka beta including the link above.
You can download a stable ports tree for the 4.x series. I currently use FreeBSD 4.8 and it comes with kde 3.1.
You may also want to try /usr/ports/misc/instant-workstation which will install most desktop ui's, fonts, and apps. But beware this broke my 5.0 system severly. No problems with FreeBSD 4.8. -
Re:A Comparison of FreeBSD and Linux
Well...
One comparison can be found in the essay BSD: Linux With a Twist. The FreeBSD Manual also has a section on the differences primarily focused on the development model.
But just as a summary
Support
Linux has more users, more books, more groups, more mailing lists and more newsgroups. Whether this is good or bad depends on your point of view. I find comp.unix.freebsd.misc to have generally very good advice.
What you get
Most Linux distros seem to be headed towards a "complete desktop in a box" approach. In contrast, BSD just gives you a bare-bones distribution with most other applications available as packages or ports. Under BSD the kernel and core programs are treated as a coherent unit.
Flavors
Linux seems to spawn off a new distribution about once a month. There just seems to be three main BSDs that focus on different things. (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD.)
Java
The BSDs lag behind Linux in Java support a bit. I don't have any problems with Java 1.3 but I'm told Java 1.4 is not production quality yet.
License
The BSD license permits incorporation into proprietary systems. Depending on your needs and politics this is either a good thing or a bad thing.
Hardware
Linux has support for more peripherals. NetBSD has support for more CPUs.
Learning Curve
Hrm. BSD pretty much forces you to master command-line unix. The text-based install assumes a pretty good understanding of basic concepts, and while the Handbook is excellent, it also assumes a bit of knowledge. -
FreeBSD AMD64 support:The 5.2R todo list has this:
"Productionable support for the AMD64 platform.
Currently, AMD64 runs fully in 32-bit emulation mode, and boots to single-user in 64-bit mode. We expect full production support for the AMD64 architecture in 5.2-RELEASE."
So it's sorta working and to be finished soon.
-
NetBSD is already there; FreeBSD won't take long
All of the brouhaha over Linux seems to have overshadowed the fact that it was actually NetBSD that was the first UNIX-like operating system to boot on the AMD64 architecture (under simulation, several years ago, long before there was silicon). If FreeBSD and OpenBSD leverage this work, they won't be far behind. (OpenBSD has diverged from NetBSD, but not so much that they can't bring in the architecture-dependent stuff from NetBSD very quickly if they want to.)
-
Redhat, Old hat
"Windows is a better server than Red Hat." No, it isn't. But that's not the real story.
The real story is that FreeBSD is a better server than Red Hat and Windows. Come join us on the "red side", resistance is futile!
-
Re:donate money that goes straight to the RIAA?!?If you really want to donate some money to help the free information movement:
Better yet, create some free information yourself. Write free software. Write some documentation. Report bugs in free software, or submit patches, or report errors in the documentation. Write free books. Make some music and release it for free. (Or do any of the above, make the information free-as-in-speech, and find a way to profit from it.)
I really couldn't care less about the fate of these students who got sued by the RIAA. All they're doing is perpetuating the public's misconception that free information is a form of parasitism, rather than a form of creativity.
-
The TODO list...Since all 3 of the other comments on this story are offtopic or trolls, I'll throw in something somewhat informational about the upcoming FreeBSD 5.1-RELEASE.
First off, you can see the TODO list here. Stuff on this list is supposed to happen before release time.
Also, remember that even though this is -RELEASE, it is not -STABLE. FreeBSD 5.1 will not be part of any stable branch. It is still considered the developmental version. Despite that, it is pretty stable. I haven't seen my machine crash in quite a while.
-
The TODO list...Since all 3 of the other comments on this story are offtopic or trolls, I'll throw in something somewhat informational about the upcoming FreeBSD 5.1-RELEASE.
First off, you can see the TODO list here. Stuff on this list is supposed to happen before release time.
Also, remember that even though this is -RELEASE, it is not -STABLE. FreeBSD 5.1 will not be part of any stable branch. It is still considered the developmental version. Despite that, it is pretty stable. I haven't seen my machine crash in quite a while.
-
Re:Cost of not patching?The difficult question is whether the costs of patching outweigh the costs of NOT patching. There's a lot to be said for "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" sometimes.
For the usual "feature" patches ("This patch adds pretty shiny things to the edge of your window"...), you're absolutely right: making any kind of large-scale change (like putting a new patch on 1000 machines) is a big deal. Even if it's all automated via network management tools, you'll need to test, prepare and then support it. Do you really need that little tweak added?
However, with security patches usually you have no choice. The only decision for some security patches is how long do you wait before deploying it. Don't wanna be the first ones to put a bad patch on now, do we?
That's a tough one. Deploying a patch seems like a big hassle, especially when you need to test it thoroughly and have a fallback option if it fails. Big hassle, that is, up until it's too late and you have to clear out a few dozen CodeRed or Nimda infected machines! Like insurance: seems too expensive, right up until you actually need it...
Of course, they don't seem to mention the alternative, of not needing to patch
;-) As Bernstein says, reliability means never having to say "sorry" - and never having to patch, either! -
CVS server configuration
Not really a tool per se, but just a hint that can prove helpful. You might find the existing CVS server configuration of projects like NetBSD or FreeBSD useful. I know I did
:-)Instead of repeating the steps that others have taken to configure your CVSROOT/ stuff, you can copy existing configurations and make a few modifications to match your local style, taste, or other details of setup. For instance, this article from the FreeBSD documentation set describes how you can set things up for automatic mail notifications and commit log archiving, using the scripts developed by the FreeBSD CVS admins.
-- -
Re:Steve Ballmer's Comments on BSD
There is a port of FreeBSD that runs on Sun machines, this port was funded and basically created by Sun so that they could sell the machines to BSD users. A very good plan actually, but one that they dropped after a while, though they still develop quite a bit of software including StarOffice and java. Read more here.
-
Re:rcNGSee the freebsd-arch thread starting with the post by Doug Barton. In particular, point 2 of his future actions says:
Backport
Later posts mention how to use rcNG in ports scripts and still maintain backwards compatibility. /etc/rc.subr to RELENG_4 prior to 4.9-Release. The purpose here is to allow ports authors to make use of the rcNG system for their startup scripts, and to possibly allow us to backport major features that just work better in the NG framework.One of the features of rcNG is to allow dependencies. For example, the nfsd startup script expresses a dependency on mountd, so starting nfsd with the script will first check if mountd isn't started and start that. This is, IMO, more powerful than the SysV concept of ordering where scripts are started and stopped when changing run levels based on their "number".
-
Re:What's next? RPM based Debian?
FreeBSD is no harder to install than normal debian linux, once you understand the disk terminology (rather than separate physical partitions like in the Linux world, you create one physical partition, and then create multiple slices within that on which you'll mount your filesystems).
It's true that it is pretty easy once you get the disk terminology. Unfortunately you (like so many others) have it backwards. Please check the handbook. The proper way to say it is you create a slice and then make partitions within that slice. It is similar to extended partition with logical drives inside except that a slice is seen as a primary partition to other OSes. -
Re:About Debian's FreeBSD based system.For status of Debian's netBSD/FreeBSD based system:
Answer to 2 specific questions:
- [quote]Is it a joint project by FreeBSD and Debian teams?[/quote]
I do not know exactly,
... but it looks like soley by Debian Developer developing user land software using only netBSD kernel. - [quote]The Debian is basing their efforts on the already established ports of various applications on *BSD. eg. see the following from Debian's NetBSD based distribuition's information pages.[/quote]
I do not think this is true.
From Why Debian GNU/NetBSD?:
Why Debian GNU/NetBSD?
- NetBSD runs on hardware unsupported by Linux. Porting Debian to the NetBSD kernel increases the number of platforms that can run a Debian-based operating system.
- The Debian GNU/Hurd project demonstrates that Debian is not tied to one specific kernel. However, the Hurd kernel is still relatively immature - a Debian GNU/NetBSD system would be usable at a production level.
- Lessons learned from the porting of Debian to NetBSD can be used in porting Debian to other kernels (such as FreeBSD and OpenBSD).
- In contrast to projects like Fink or Debian GNU/w32, Debian GNU/NetBSD does not exist in order to provide extra software or a Unix-style environment to an existing OS (the *BSD ports trees are already comprehensive, and they unarguably provide a Unix-style environment). Instead, a user or administrator used to a more traditional Debian system should feel comfortable with a Debian GNU/NetBSD system immediately and competent in a relatively short period of time.
- Not everybody likes the *BSD ports tree or the *BSD userland (this is a personal preference thing, rather than any sort of comment on quality). Linux distributions have been produced which provide *BSD style ports or a *BSD style userland for those who like the BSD user environment but also wish to use the Linux kernel - Debian GNU/NetBSD is the logical reverse of this, allowing people who like the GNU userland or a Linux-style packaging system to use the NetBSD kernel.
- Because we can.
- [quote]Is it a joint project by FreeBSD and Debian teams?[/quote]
-
Getting started with FreeBSD
FreeBSD is a great OS, if you get to know it. There's a lot of documentation available, and I thought I'd just share with you my experiences with FreeBSD.
Which version to install.
4.x or 5.0? 4.x is the stable series and 5.x is in development. It suffers of what's been called a chicken and egg problem described here. Think of 5.x as Linux 2.5 series. 5.1 when released(scheduled for release in june)to will be the start of the new stable branch. If you want stability choose 4.x. Bleeding edge? 5.0.
You can download the ISO's from here:
You generally only need to download the first ISO
Installation:
The installer is text based, but dont let it scare you off. The partition layout is a little different than what you may be used to but it's all described in the FreeBSD handbook here
The installation will leave you off with a pretty basic system and you're ready to install:
Ports
Ports is a very powerfull way of installing new programs and manage installed programs. You almost never run into dependency hell. A very powerfull tool to help manage ports is portupgrade. A short introduction is available here and to ports in general here
Documentation.
FreeBSD requires some time to get to know but the FreeBSD Handbook, provides a great introduction to FreeBSD. Sites also worth a visit is Freshports.org to keep you updated about new ports, and BSD dev center
If you give FreeBSD an honest try it will pay off. Most of the applications avalible for Linux also compiles on FreeBSD, and in general I find it more easy to find documentation, thus making it more easy to maintain. -
Getting started with FreeBSD
FreeBSD is a great OS, if you get to know it. There's a lot of documentation available, and I thought I'd just share with you my experiences with FreeBSD.
Which version to install.
4.x or 5.0? 4.x is the stable series and 5.x is in development. It suffers of what's been called a chicken and egg problem described here. Think of 5.x as Linux 2.5 series. 5.1 when released(scheduled for release in june)to will be the start of the new stable branch. If you want stability choose 4.x. Bleeding edge? 5.0.
You can download the ISO's from here:
You generally only need to download the first ISO
Installation:
The installer is text based, but dont let it scare you off. The partition layout is a little different than what you may be used to but it's all described in the FreeBSD handbook here
The installation will leave you off with a pretty basic system and you're ready to install:
Ports
Ports is a very powerfull way of installing new programs and manage installed programs. You almost never run into dependency hell. A very powerfull tool to help manage ports is portupgrade. A short introduction is available here and to ports in general here
Documentation.
FreeBSD requires some time to get to know but the FreeBSD Handbook, provides a great introduction to FreeBSD. Sites also worth a visit is Freshports.org to keep you updated about new ports, and BSD dev center
If you give FreeBSD an honest try it will pay off. Most of the applications avalible for Linux also compiles on FreeBSD, and in general I find it more easy to find documentation, thus making it more easy to maintain. -
Getting started with FreeBSD
FreeBSD is a great OS, if you get to know it. There's a lot of documentation available, and I thought I'd just share with you my experiences with FreeBSD.
Which version to install.
4.x or 5.0? 4.x is the stable series and 5.x is in development. It suffers of what's been called a chicken and egg problem described here. Think of 5.x as Linux 2.5 series. 5.1 when released(scheduled for release in june)to will be the start of the new stable branch. If you want stability choose 4.x. Bleeding edge? 5.0.
You can download the ISO's from here:
You generally only need to download the first ISO
Installation:
The installer is text based, but dont let it scare you off. The partition layout is a little different than what you may be used to but it's all described in the FreeBSD handbook here
The installation will leave you off with a pretty basic system and you're ready to install:
Ports
Ports is a very powerfull way of installing new programs and manage installed programs. You almost never run into dependency hell. A very powerfull tool to help manage ports is portupgrade. A short introduction is available here and to ports in general here
Documentation.
FreeBSD requires some time to get to know but the FreeBSD Handbook, provides a great introduction to FreeBSD. Sites also worth a visit is Freshports.org to keep you updated about new ports, and BSD dev center
If you give FreeBSD an honest try it will pay off. Most of the applications avalible for Linux also compiles on FreeBSD, and in general I find it more easy to find documentation, thus making it more easy to maintain. -
Getting started with FreeBSD
FreeBSD is a great OS, if you get to know it. There's a lot of documentation available, and I thought I'd just share with you my experiences with FreeBSD.
Which version to install.
4.x or 5.0? 4.x is the stable series and 5.x is in development. It suffers of what's been called a chicken and egg problem described here. Think of 5.x as Linux 2.5 series. 5.1 when released(scheduled for release in june)to will be the start of the new stable branch. If you want stability choose 4.x. Bleeding edge? 5.0.
You can download the ISO's from here:
You generally only need to download the first ISO
Installation:
The installer is text based, but dont let it scare you off. The partition layout is a little different than what you may be used to but it's all described in the FreeBSD handbook here
The installation will leave you off with a pretty basic system and you're ready to install:
Ports
Ports is a very powerfull way of installing new programs and manage installed programs. You almost never run into dependency hell. A very powerfull tool to help manage ports is portupgrade. A short introduction is available here and to ports in general here
Documentation.
FreeBSD requires some time to get to know but the FreeBSD Handbook, provides a great introduction to FreeBSD. Sites also worth a visit is Freshports.org to keep you updated about new ports, and BSD dev center
If you give FreeBSD an honest try it will pay off. Most of the applications avalible for Linux also compiles on FreeBSD, and in general I find it more easy to find documentation, thus making it more easy to maintain. -
Getting started with FreeBSD
FreeBSD is a great OS, if you get to know it. There's a lot of documentation available, and I thought I'd just share with you my experiences with FreeBSD.
Which version to install.
4.x or 5.0? 4.x is the stable series and 5.x is in development. It suffers of what's been called a chicken and egg problem described here. Think of 5.x as Linux 2.5 series. 5.1 when released(scheduled for release in june)to will be the start of the new stable branch. If you want stability choose 4.x. Bleeding edge? 5.0.
You can download the ISO's from here:
You generally only need to download the first ISO
Installation:
The installer is text based, but dont let it scare you off. The partition layout is a little different than what you may be used to but it's all described in the FreeBSD handbook here
The installation will leave you off with a pretty basic system and you're ready to install:
Ports
Ports is a very powerfull way of installing new programs and manage installed programs. You almost never run into dependency hell. A very powerfull tool to help manage ports is portupgrade. A short introduction is available here and to ports in general here
Documentation.
FreeBSD requires some time to get to know but the FreeBSD Handbook, provides a great introduction to FreeBSD. Sites also worth a visit is Freshports.org to keep you updated about new ports, and BSD dev center
If you give FreeBSD an honest try it will pay off. Most of the applications avalible for Linux also compiles on FreeBSD, and in general I find it more easy to find documentation, thus making it more easy to maintain. -
Getting started with FreeBSD
FreeBSD is a great OS, if you get to know it. There's a lot of documentation available, and I thought I'd just share with you my experiences with FreeBSD.
Which version to install.
4.x or 5.0? 4.x is the stable series and 5.x is in development. It suffers of what's been called a chicken and egg problem described here. Think of 5.x as Linux 2.5 series. 5.1 when released(scheduled for release in june)to will be the start of the new stable branch. If you want stability choose 4.x. Bleeding edge? 5.0.
You can download the ISO's from here:
You generally only need to download the first ISO
Installation:
The installer is text based, but dont let it scare you off. The partition layout is a little different than what you may be used to but it's all described in the FreeBSD handbook here
The installation will leave you off with a pretty basic system and you're ready to install:
Ports
Ports is a very powerfull way of installing new programs and manage installed programs. You almost never run into dependency hell. A very powerfull tool to help manage ports is portupgrade. A short introduction is available here and to ports in general here
Documentation.
FreeBSD requires some time to get to know but the FreeBSD Handbook, provides a great introduction to FreeBSD. Sites also worth a visit is Freshports.org to keep you updated about new ports, and BSD dev center
If you give FreeBSD an honest try it will pay off. Most of the applications avalible for Linux also compiles on FreeBSD, and in general I find it more easy to find documentation, thus making it more easy to maintain. -
Re:What they should do...
What they should do is remove any legal weight from clauses along the lines of "This software comes with no warranty of any kind, including fitness for any particular purpose..."
Take a look at sections 11 and 12 of the GPL. Or how about the FreeBSD license?
-
Re:For those not keeping score...
ipfw is basically a basic packet filter with a few things bodged on top of it (variable expansion, keeping state, etc) ( OK, that's a bit unfair, but it's what it *feels* like to use).
Okay, so you admit your own explanation is biased and wrong. That basically invalidates that "point" you made. Have you looked at the rework of ipfw which is in FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT and known as ipfw2?pf is a built-from-the-ground-up total firewall solution
...which means it has some time before it is truely accepted by everyone. Both ipfilter and ipfw have been around for a long time and alraedy proven themselves to work well. In my opinion, pf still has a while to go before it proves itself to the extreme that the others have.Essentially, if you want a router with a bit of filtering, ipfw will do you. If you want a serious firewall, go for pf. However, if you want a serious firewall, you should already be going with OpenBSD anyway
I don't choose my tool by the ease of configuration alone. I also choose my tool by its proven stability, flexibility, and how tightly integrated it is with the other things I am using. Since ipfw fits in all three of these categories, that is my tool. I also prefer FreeBSD over OpenBSD, though the reasons for that aren't really relevant to this conversation. I'll just summarize it by saying that I believe FreeBSD has much better leadership and downloadable ISOs in the same layout as the purchasable ISOs.It seems like you totally missed my point I made in my comment above. My point was not "we should go with whichever is better." In fact, it was very different from that. My point was "we should merge the good from others into the existing good we have already." I don't want to switch tools, configuration file formats, and APIs. That was the point I was making. These things should not change. Switching or adding pf to my system will do all these things, along with increasing the size of my source tree just to give me a duplicate tool.
And in closing, a real network administrator wouldn't use OpenBSD for a firewall. They would use a hardware device designed from the ground up for the specific job of being a firewall. And no, this is not an argument that can be extended to pf vs. ipfw, since ipfw was also designed to be a firewalling tool, has been around longer, does a decent job already (especially with ipfw2), and so forth.
-
Re:For those not keeping score...
If you read the man page for ipfw and compare & contrast with the man page for pf, you can immediately see just how much better pf is.
ipfw is basically a basic packet filter with a few things bodged on top of it (variable expansion, keeping state, etc) (OK, that's a bit unfair, but it's what it *feels* like to use). pf is a built-from-the-ground-up total firewall solution, with a hell of a lot of flexibility, and also several functions which will do in one line what it takes ipfw rather longer to do (e.g. anti-spoofing). Plus the simple command "scrub in all" on your border router immediately renders most TCP-fragmentation attacks benign.
Essentially, if you want a router with a bit of filtering, ipfw will do you. If you want a serious firewall, go for pf. However, if you want a serious firewall, you should already be going with OpenBSD anyway :) -
For those not keeping score...PF is the Packet Filter used in the latest releases of OpenBSD. OpenBSD developed pf after a licensing dispute with Darren Reed basically resulted in him telling OpenBSD to go to hell.
FreeBSD, up to now, has had two different firewalling methods. First off, there is the natively developed ipfw tool, which recently got a renovation and is now ipfw2 in -CURRENT. The alternative to ipfw is Darren Reed's ipfilter, also known as just ipf. Both ipfw and ipfilter share similar capabilities, and it is generally user preference as to which one is used in FreeBSD.
Now, it seems somebody has made the effort to port yet another firewalling mechanism to FreeBSD, this time pf. The features it claims to have over ipfw are:
- built-in variable expansion
- built-in NAT and preventing NAT detection
- table (a kind of very large blocks of address) support
- packet normalization
- state modulation
- powerful state tracking
- automatic rule optimization
- queueing with ALTQ
- load balancing with multiple routes
Presumably, some of these are rather desirable features. However, it is beyond me why FreeBSD needs yet another way to do firewalling when the interfaces and systems we have now already work well. It is my opinion that instead of porting something proprietary to OpenBSD like pf, time should have been spent either patching these features into ipfilter or ipfw to add functionality to an already accepted and loved firewalling mechanism. There is no reason FreeBSD needs to dig a deeper firewalling grave for itself like OpenBSD has done.