Slashdot Mirror

..And Linux has a terrible user interface..

maybe you would want to try this: http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=19297

I don't know if someone saw this before, but the back and forward arrows in Longhorn are EXACTLY the same than the KDE Crystal (take a look on the comparison)
KDE Crystal SVG look : http://www.kde-look.org/content/preview.php?previe w=2&id=8341&file1=8341-1.jpg&file2=8341-2.jpg&file 3=8341-3.jpg&name=Crystal+SVG&PHPSESSID=b09161c27e 4dc69f957fca2b9ef44a81
(Also the replicant Plastikfox for firefox) https://addons.mozilla.org/themes/moreinfo.php?id= 213
Longhorn long awaited innovative arrows: http://www.jcxp.net/lh_5203_shots/shots/lh11.jpg
Will MS release their skin under the GPL???

I personally don't even notice it any more (probably because the only GTK app I use is gaim, and very occasioanlly, GIMP :)), but I guess it's confusing for most new users. Has anyone tried out gtk-qt? Does it work at all well? Obviously it can't handle entirely different UI conventions, but I guess it could possibly make things at least look the same.

Yeah, and if you use Mandriva, you should look like THIS! Stay away from the children!

Baghira.

it has the panther, tiger and something else themes

Hah. Try something as simple as moving the window widgets (eg close button) to the right side.

So much for "extremely customizable down to a very low level"...

Also, the method for theming in OSX is a hack. You can see the results of this -- some applications get past shapeshifter without being themed.

With UI frameworks like Qt, the theming is built in at a low level, it is well supported, and every app which uses Qt will follow the themes.

That "Info Display Panel" thing looks exactly like whats been around on KDE and GNOME for at least a year (most likely a lot longer) via karamba (for KDE not sure what it's called for GNOME). Here are some links

That "Info Display Panel" thing looks exactly like whats been around on KDE and GNOME for at least a year (most likely a lot longer) via karamba (for KDE not sure what it's called for GNOME). Here are some links

That "Info Display Panel" thing looks exactly like whats been around on KDE and GNOME for at least a year (most likely a lot longer) via karamba (for KDE not sure what it's called for GNOME). Here are some links

I agree, the screenshots add nothing. If you want a more artsy desktop you can go here or here. If you want a faster, cleaner desktop, I'd suggest you take a look over here.

1.) The dialog that appears asking for an admin password to install software. Directly ripped from OS X.

Who needs multiple icon sizes or color depths when you've got SVG icons?

Disclaimer: 10 Year Mac User. OSX fan.

OK Let's face it, Linux on the PB's is the way to go; clean, lean and outperforming the OSX. Me? Ti PB (1 week old). I **thought** I was happy until I put Debian on it. It Just Works ... errm Better than OSX! Shock Horror!

I've tested Doom3 frame rates, writing PDF's, boot times and burning DVD's. Debian, I am sad to say, smokes Mr. Blue.

Sure I keep a dual boot box, but rarely do I ever touch OSX these days. Run 'top' on OSX lately? it's depressing. Half the GPU is being hogged by OSX's insistence on *2D* blitting, the rest of the system memory is doing God Knows what with some iLife update sillyness. Linux just feels better, it's free, mature, and has the worlds *best* kernel hacker making sure it works really really well - Linus (his desktop is a Mac). You might see alot more Mac's around lately, but more and more are running Linux under the hood, so.. not a switcher, but a pitcher.

Oh yeah, think I'm missing out on any Look and Feel? Wrong!..I never touch the CLI these days!

http://kde-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=1& id=15431&file1=15431-1.jpg&file2=15431-2.jpg&file3 =15431-3.jpg&name=KDE+3.3+-+Xorg+6.8+Beta+-+Unbeat able

A couple more versions, and they'll probably have caught up to/surpassed what you get with a Mac or XP system. GUI-wise, anyway. Underneath it's already better.

Although the beauty of the WM/DE is completely subjective I have found kde-look.org to be a great source of beautifying KDE. If you look through there you can find people that have their desktop looking alot like or exactly like Mac OS X or Windows XP (if you're into that sort of thing).

I've said this a million times:

Look at www.kde-look.org. Theres listening, in the haphazard sort of way (thats OLD school OSS, and its fine) and there's listening in the WE REALLY WANT TO GET THIS RIGHT way.

I think Gnome has continued to push old-school. If anything, it went from a slightly standard GUI/DE very similar to KDE/Explorer/ETC and started trying to do things differently.

Of course the catch is most of us don't want to relearn how to use something as basic as a desktop.

Your (not necessarily *you*) new save dialog is a good example of this. Its user encumbering. And this seems to be a trend.

Any way, my intention isn't to be insulting so I'm sorry if you feel that I am. I'm just making a slightly frustrated observation.

It wouldn't be an issue at all if some many good applications weren't tied directly to the toolset (same I'm sure with Gnome users and KDE/QT programs). But the fact is because I like a number of "Gnome" programs I'm stuck using an interface which I literally hate.

KDE is hellbent on cloning the look and feel of windows???? When people make arguements like this about kde I really wonder if they've ever used KDE at all. Have you ever heard of themes you can make kde look however the hell you want so your arguement holds no water.

Here ya go:

http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=17201

It works like a charm, and best of all, thanks to the ioslave framework, every application written for KDE supports it automatically. I wish the KDE and Gnome guys would get together and at the very least share the ioslave stuff. Or perhaps make it a system-wide function that somehow makes all apps share the functionality, kinda like on Plan9.

I have been using KDE for nearly 4 years now. And, I do think that KDE is highly original and it's interface/environment is really different than anything else out there. Here are my reasons:

1. Using the power of Karamba, SuperKaramba - some of the most interesting looks, original interfaces are possible in KDE. Just check out some of these at kde-look.org and kde-apps.org. For example, see Cool desktop. There are some other such desktops there too.

2. Network transperancy built into KDE using all KIO slaves create really unique and original interfaces - that is intuitive and available to all KDE applications. Try to "open a file for editing" on a remote machine via ftp/ssh from your favorite editor in windows xp and you will know what I mean.

3. Some of the newer features of integration of Kontact PIM suite with IM services and Konqueror and feeds are cool original features that I haven't found in other OSes - to the best of my knowledge.

4. Ksysguard's stand-alone application and also the panel applet is one of the cool "KDE-only" original feature that I have seen.

I can go on but I think the point has been made.

Osho

QT and Gnome used to be good on 'themes' but they were dropped a while ago, and are just being picked up again.

What needs so happen is something like CSS for the desktop, seperation of layout and content so that the applications I'm running are all in my style, not in windows style, or QT style or Gtk style. Then when the support guy comes along he just downloads his CSS and XML file with bookmarks etc for the Application menus, personal settings etc.. and everything works just like it does in the office.

Gnome and QT (and windows) support styles, but the problem is you have to write a new style for each. (well except someone's wrapped up QT in a GTK style)...

The look very closely follows the original NEXTstep look. It looks ugly now, but at the time it was the best look out there. What could you do with only an eight bit color palette? Contemporary styles in the computing world were at the time were Motif, Win30, and classic Mac, which came nowhere close to NEXT in the looks department.

I've got a NEXT style for KDE called NEWstep which you may want to use when you feel in the retro mood.

Like this?
OpenOffice.org 2 also has new icons, you can see them in the development snapshots.

http://kde-look.org/content/preview.php?preview=1& id=15431&file1=15431-1.jpg&file2=15431-2.jpg&file3 =15431-3.jpg&name=KDE+3.3+-+Xorg+6.8+Beta+-+Unbeat able

yes i jest.. but it does reveal another dimension to this discussion ;)

The only decent one I've found in KDE requires SuperKaramba and is LiquidWeather. It displays the data on the root window though which isn't very practical since it makes looking at it complicated when all your desktops are crowded....

funny wallpapers

http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=1 0434
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=8 586
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=7 858
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=9 087
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=6 22

funny wallpapers

http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=1 0434
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=8 586
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=7 858
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=9 087
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=6 22

funny wallpapers

http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=1 0434
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=8 586
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=7 858
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=9 087
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=6 22

funny wallpapers

http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=1 0434
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=8 586
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=7 858
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=9 087
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=6 22

funny wallpapers

http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=1 0434
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=8 586
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=7 858
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=9 087
http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=6 22

For linux and whatever else it's ported to there's Karamba, which has components and forks created for RSS, weather feeds, stocks etc. There's a GNOME rival app too iirc.

Parent post: Can't you get skins that make the Linux desktops and apps look like Windows?

My intuition is that this superficial simularity makes the situation worse. A look-alike windows theme will still contain subtle differences that give users the impression they are looking at an ugly knock-off. (We could draw parallels here to the uncanny valley effect.)

Finding the right theme to convert Windows users is tricky. You will get the best results with something that preserves most of the behaviors (esp. button locations/functions on the window frame) of Windows, but that is visually distinct from Windows. You want something that is aesthetically conservative, yet superior. Instead of knock-off, you want "a new computer" [but not something overwrought that looks like an alien console]. Personally, I think Plastik for KDE gets its right (although that screenshot may not do it justice): it's not fancy or ugly, and it has some subtle mouse-over behaviors that make the window system seem... attentive.

Again, this is all intuition: nothing beats actual user research. Also, keep in mind that people who are afraid of computers will have a mental block against trying new things. This is natural: we humans resist situations where our strategic knowledge is no longer valid. Reaching this type of user will require a whole new level of approach beyond making the product act like Windows.

Inspired? I wouldn't pull it past them for taking a copy righted image and just using it.

This is one thing that gives the GPL movement a black eye, having people claim some copy righted material as their own. I am not going to dig through it, but KDE-Look.org has a few wallpapers that use copy righted images and have a GPL license slapped on them. The windows xp background is quite popular there, for an example see here.

In the past I have looked towards open source oriented themes sites.... You'll find a variety of things like icon collections listed under bsd, lgpl, or gpl licenses although what exactly that means is beyond me.

Another source is the Stock Photo Exchange. They have a variety of independently listed photos most of which you have express permission to use however you want. Quality varies.

Real professional graphics designers will usually have massive paid-for multimedia collections to draw upon.

For independent software development and running your software business:
Eric Sink
Joel on Software (read business of software newsgroup)

For inexpensive, reliable order processing:
SWREG
ShareIt

Installers:
NSIS (Windows)
BitRock (Linux, Windows)

Icons/Website:
Go to KDE Look find some artwork you like and contact the author.

He got 23% of the vote in the kde-look.org poll, thus giving him the majority vote by a percentage point over Kerry.

KDE-Look.org is what your looking for. KDE icons, window manager themes, karamba themes, wallpapers, splash screens and a bunch of other stuff for customizing the look of KDE past the default thats included, there are pages upon pages of Icon themes. If you don't find anything you like, are you sure your not just trying hard to hate KDE to be part of the elite 'I don't like KDE its for n00bs' club.

But for about the last 4 months, I've been using Gnome, and I don't even have KDE installed on my main Gentoo box. In fact, I've been writing a new visual theme for gnome over the weekend. I couldn't tell you exactly why I switched, except for a couple of pointers. For one, it seems like new technology is adopted earlier in Gnome. I'm sure some people would point to that and claim problems arise from it, but I haven't encountered anything bad. More than that, though, it's possible to have a level of polish in Gnome that I just can't get out of KDE - and I'm the type of user that designs my own themes (see here).

I don't know why for sure, but as of Gnome 2.6 and 2.8, the project just really seemed to come together. I still consider any gnome pre 2.4 to be pretty much unuseable; I didn't just change my mind. The recent builds convinced me.

Do GNOME and KDE have a completely different idea of what a theme engine can do? Where can I get informations on the QT theme engine?

Basically, a proper Qt theme is a set of C++ functions for drawing widgets using graphics primitives and the occasional pixmap. Difficult to program, and difficult to implement fully, but incredibly versatile (new, arbitrary, user-defined colour schemes and sizing are straightforward additions, for instance) and widget rendering can be extremely fast.

Contrast this with many GTK themes, which are often pixmaps chopped up and used to build widgets, lines and buttons in a piecemeal fashion. Much easier to implement (I've modified one myself with just a text editor and the Gimp), but much more restrictive in their capabilities (recolouring pixmaps in GTK is effectively impossible, as far as I know - my modifications were to Gimp.app's default theme to make it match the rest of the Graphite stuff on MacOS X). Plus, they run terribly slowly. On my PC with a recent Qt and GTK, complex Qt dialogues appear almost instantly, while GTK ones visibly draw.

or example and comparism, let's have a look at the highest rated KDE theme: Baghira
And the still not highest rated, but same style GNOME theme: GnoMetal

Yes, I really want my PC to look like a cheap knock-off of a modern Mac. If I want Aqua, I use my iBook.

Compare your teenager-designed GTK themes with a properly implemented Qt theme, like Plastik - while it looks fairly plain, it's far easier to work with applications with a simple, elegant and consistent styling. If you want baroque GUI widget designs, go ahead and use GTK - but don't be surprised if everyone else regards your hyper-beautiful stylings as unusable...

If this is really possible then I don't know, but then why do even the highest rated themes look so bad? Do GNOME and KDE have a completely different idea of what a theme engine can do? Where can I get informations on the QT theme engine?

For example and comparism, let's have a look at the highest rated KDE theme: Baghira
And the still not highest rated, but same style GNOME theme: GnoMetal

And there are /way/ better GNOME themes at gnome-look.org.

The themes from kde-look.org all look like made by geeks who have no idea of visual design whatsoever. Everybody could draw such a theme.

Sure there are 'better' themes, visit http://kde-look.org. One popular is the within KDE included Plastik which will be the default of KDE 3.4.

For linux, check out KDE with Baghira, which is a Mac OSX clone theme for KDE. There is also some extension that copies Expose functionality. http://www.kde-look.org is a good place to go looking for extensions to the standard KDE environment. All in all it's the best knock-off Mac environment I've seen to date. There is also Karamba which adds some nice python sciptable desktop elements. Knock-off OSX docks and many pretty system monitor, weather, rss and other little desktop resident apps are done with it.

I don't have a Mac, but some at my work do, so I see OSX every day, but I don't actually use it. So there are likely many nuances that are missing. I'd just go buy the Mac if I had tons of money to drop into a new system. Until that day arrives, linux, KDE, and the ever-improving state of open source makes a PC good enough for me.

Try the GTK-Qt Theme Engine; with it, widgets in the GIMP (and GTK apps in general) look exactly the same as widgets in any other Qt app ;).

See, "James" ( Sept 15 post) is clearly a derivative of Darl McBride (see, e.g., his business card), so the blogger will soon be hauled into court and feel the Wrath of Caldera/SCO! $1B damages easily!

KDE frontend for GIMP? What did I miss?

You missed nothing=-there's no such thing. There is, however, a GTK2 engine that uses Qt as a drawing backend. It's called the gtk-qt-engine, and while it's still in the early stages, it's coming along quite nicely. Combine that with some other tweaks like changing your .gtkrc to use the same fonts and icons as KDE, and you've got a decent level of visual integration (not nearly perfect, but not bad either).

It's only for GTK2, however--GTK1 apps don't have that, although some GTK1 themes, such as Plastig, use the QtPixmap backend to draw your colours from your KDE settings, so GTK1 is part of the way there.

This was already possible before with the right setting/theme: Plastik for Firefox.

"Copy Apple for crying out loud"

KDE screenshot 1

KDE screenshot 2

"Copy Apple for crying out loud"

KDE screenshot 1

KDE screenshot 2

Check out Expocity if you're a Gnome user and Kompose if you're a KDE user. Granted, it'd be nicer to see this built into X but for the time being they're not so bad.

He's so predictable he's even got a drinking game I think that means he's got high levels of usability.

His web site?

well, just take a look. /. games section has a better choice of colours.

anyhow, enough of that.

This guy could do to take a look at OSS for a change and stop contradicting himself (familiarity is good, oh, but don't clone)....

kde look has got more usability hanging off of it than, well, Nielsen I suppose.

OSS Firefox has create standards support (not excellent though), which is really handy if you trying to design a web site for dis/abled people.

Maybe OpenOffice does have more features than Office, but can't you just turn them off, or ignore them. Maybe I can preview sounds in Konquror, but not in Explorer. Maybe were all pissed of with the likes of Microsoft and Nielsen trying to dumb the world down, to the point where people stop thinking all together.

Most kids are coming through school with a high level of computer literacy, I'm sure even the ones who aren't geeks can get to grips with a Mandrake install.

Jakob Nielsen, shut the fuck up and fix you web site, and try to practise what you preach, before telling other what to do.

I don't know about the rest, but the theme manager update (supports complete theme packages)is definately worth it.

Even a few themes out there to support it:
http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=14451