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I started using a kinesis contoured keyboard about 4 months ago. it was a little difficult to get used to the layout, and yes, it is kinda pricey. However, since I do so much typing, my wrists were starting to really bother me on the standard keyboard. Especially when I was writing non-stop for a couple of hours or so. This keyboard allows me to type incessantly for long durations of time, usually when I have to go to the bathroom. :-)

I started using a kinesis contoured keyboard about 4 months ago. it was a little difficult to get used to the layout, and yes, it is kinda pricey. However, since I do so much typing, my wrists were starting to really bother me on the standard keyboard. Especially when I was writing non-stop for a couple of hours or so. This keyboard allows me to type incessantly for long durations of time, usually when I have to go to the bathroom. :-)

This keyboard is made by Kinesis Corporation, maker of other excellent ergonomic products like the Maxim keyboard I'm using right now. I've coveted the Evolution for some time now, but as the reviewer says, the trackpad sucks, and because the keyboard is so wide, your mouse is far enough away to become an ergo issue in itself. My Maxim doesn't have a pesky numeric keypad, so my trackball can snug in close where I don't have to reach to far for it.

This keyboard is made by Kinesis Corporation, maker of other excellent ergonomic products like the Maxim keyboard I'm using right now. I've coveted the Evolution for some time now, but as the reviewer says, the trackpad sucks, and because the keyboard is so wide, your mouse is far enough away to become an ergo issue in itself. My Maxim doesn't have a pesky numeric keypad, so my trackball can snug in close where I don't have to reach to far for it.

This keyboard is made by Kinesis Corporation, maker of other excellent ergonomic products like the Maxim keyboard I'm using right now. I've coveted the Evolution for some time now, but as the reviewer says, the trackpad sucks, and because the keyboard is so wide, your mouse is far enough away to become an ergo issue in itself. My Maxim doesn't have a pesky numeric keypad, so my trackball can snug in close where I don't have to reach to far for it.

If you're looking for a fully gesture-based input system, you may be interested in the KeyBowl, a no-key no-wrist-movement "keyboard". Contrary to what the pictures might imply, the two domes don't rotate. Rather, letters are formed by sliding the domes while keeping the wrists straight.

I don't own one of these (I have a Kinesis Contoured keyboard, which I'm very pleased with), but I'd be half-tempted to buy a KeyBowl if they weren't almost $400 (%$#!).

Alex Bischoff
---

It looks like Kinesis (makers of the best ergo keyboard on earth) have a new model out similar to this (only much more practical I think). Check out the Kinesis Evolution Keyboard. It can be adjusted to any size/shape person and even has a trackpad (or two) built in.
-Stype

As a kinesis user I think they (kinesis) has made a few tradeoffs just to keepthe width down. The arrow-keys are divided so that left and right are handled by two fingers on the left hand and up/down by the corresponding fingers on the right hand. The control and movement keygroup and the numeric keypad are removed to get a narrow keyboard where you can put your mouse very close (or a touchpad in the middle of the keyboard.

With my earlier problems solved by converting to kinesis I can recommend you to test. It may or may not help as persons are individuals while keyboards are not so.

I had pretty good luck with a Kinesis contoured keyboard. After the initial (about one week) adaptation period I regained my original typing speed, and after a couple more weeks I'm typing much faster than before (and wrist pain is gone!). They also provide some very handy training/adaptation exercises.

The problem is that the prices start at $200+ :(

PS: I'm not affiliated in any way with Kinesis... just being a happy user :)

Personally, I use a Kinesis when I'm on my desktop, and it was *incredibly* helpful when my wrists were at their worst. Now I'm out of grad school, I'm not typing enough to really make a difference, I think. Some might complain that $250 is a lot for a keyboard, but how much is it worth to not hurt all the time, and to not ruin your career by not being able to type, and wind up flipping burgers for $5 rather than whatever you might make on computers?

Since my fingers don't move as much and they don't move in such odd ways, just about the only time I have to hit the backspace key is when I change my mind about what I have to type, not just because I hit the wrong key. BIG productivity gain there.

I was FAST with an ordinary keyboard, compared to the general population (about 80-100wpm burst when coding). I'm past 120wpm with the kinesis burst rate, and people always look at my fingers when I sit down to type something because they seem like they're moving so fast.

So there you go. Faster and more ergo. It's not as radical as something like the KeyBowl, but it's a good alternative.

here are some links that have to do with my post. First, the TIME DIGITAL article That is the article about this keyboard.

The second article: The keyboard I was talking about...it is a kinesis keyboard. SUper cool. I want one. Check out the kinesis thing though..it is really cool. They should have name this the keybowl..it would have made sense.

On the advice of an old ask slashdot I bought the $500CAD Kinesis contoured keyboard. The price is very steep, however it has been well worth it. If the keyboard starts to act funny after spilling coke in it, just send it back and they will fix it up for about $50usd.

I no longer have pains in my wrists.

The keyboard switches between dvorak and qwerty with ease. It took a little while to learn dvorak, but again, it is well worth it. If you are ever stuck at a qwerty keyboard it will slow you down a bit, however you can always just look at the letters on the keyboard to figure out where you should be putting your fingers. If you are using a windows machine it is very easy to map a qwerty keyboard to a dvorak layout - just go into control panel/keyboard and change the language to us dvorak.

I also use a Wacom graphire tablet instead of a mouse. This also has greatly reduced repetive stress.

I'd be interested in hearing comments and personal experience stories about these three different input devices/methods:

1. Kinesis contoured keyboard ( www.kinesis-ergo.com)
2. BAT keyboard ( www.infogrip.com)
3. The DVORAK layout (info at www.thisistrue.com/dvorak.html)

Ah, well, I'm sure this is overkill for a car mp3 player, but if you want the absolute best, get the one made by kinesis. I use a kinesis keyboard every day, and they are top quality (and quite expensive). But since their keyboard don't come with an easy to get to numpad, they sell one extra.

Email Sales@kinesis-ergo.com and demand black!

I need a keyboard more cool than the one I'm typing on right now, with the case and keycaps removed.

>Yes but can you play Quake with it?

Like a fiend! Check out Kinesis Game Central . The keys are all in rows and columns, this means that you don't have to worry about the diagonals messing you up, it's like having a really nice numberpad in a convenient place. It's a lot better for mapping keys than a regular keyboard. Bad for nethack though.

"I'm convinced my Kinesis keyboard has saved my career from RSI induced disability... it's so good I shelled out the $300 to buy one for home. OK, so it's a wierd layout that most folks can't deal with at first... but the hand strain you save is well worth the upfront training costs associated with the switchover."

I bought a Cherry split keyboard three years ago, when my RSI first hit. (The Cherry has the same layout as the Kinesis Maxim Adjustable, but doesn't seem to be available any more.) Since then, I believe my wrists have actually healed to some degree. I am *very* happy with it. (To be fair, I must mention that I started using a Cirque touchpad instead of a mouse at the same time.)

I disagree about the keyboard layout being difficult to get used to. (Perhaps that's true for folks who don't touch type.) The only two differences in layout are the split down the middle, and the insert/delete/home key group rearrangement. In the case of the latter, I think the rearrangement is very reasonable, and easy enough to adjust to.

And for mousage, I've got a Cirque touchpad glued to the middle of the keyboard. Arguably, this sucks, but my philosophy is to avoid mousing anyway.

But, despite the fact that the Kinesis contoured models are clearly the best, they are also clearly not perfect. They're rather thick: I put mine in my lap, and I'd still rather have it a little lower. They've got a bit of a hump, but it's not quite as high as something like an MS Natural, and it probably should be. Also, the keyboard pockets seem a tad close together to me. (One of these days I'm going to try sawing one in half, so I can dangle my hands at my side, ala the infamous Fourteen Dollar Keyboard hack.).

They also take some re-training time of course, but what the hell, if you're an Emacs adept you can handle it.

I use a Kinesis split keyboard at work & at home. It hardly took me any time to get used to the new layout, and it's been a major help with wrist pain.

www.kinesis-ergo.com

One problem that people might attribute to typing is what I call "mouse finger." I have found that most mice (especially the Microsoft Mouse) give me lots of pain in my right hand. Lately I've been using a Logitech TrackMan Marble, which seems to help a lot.

I also use a Kinesis keyboard, and I am incredibly happy with it.
It has the following (for me) huge advantages:
- your thumbs are no longer wasted, with two fantastic thumbpads, including enter, space, backspace, delete, control (emacs heaven), alt, home, end, pgup and pgdown. This has a really great side effect: absolutely no more long and painful pinky-stretches to get to enter and backspace. Remember that your thumbs are your strongest and most agile digits, and it's a crying shame to waste them both on a space bar.
- the keyboard is separated into two wells, making it so you no longer have to turn your wrist outwards in order to type.
- The wells are shaped _exactly_ like your hand at rest. Let your hand droop in front of you - look at your fingers. The keys are exactly at that depth vis a vis each other.
- The pro is entirely programmable, so if you'd rather use a modern layout like the maltron keyboard, you can. You can see this layout here: maltron layout, but don't buy the maltron keyboard from teleprint, cause I have one and it sucks compared to my kinesis, in size, look and feel.
- The keys are laid out straight up and down, which is a natural movement for your fingers, unlike the diagonal movement a normal keyboard forces you to take.
- (totally anecdotal) My wrists and hands have stopped hurting since I bought this thing. I have never been so happy with a computer product, ever. Well, well worth the price.
- Oh one other note, David Bialick sells these for the best price when I bought mine, and the service is also excellent. His site is http://www.dmb-ergonomics.com/. I am not associated with him.
Cheers,
Paul

IMHO, the Datahand keyboard is the best keyboard for avoiding CTS. It brought me from not being able to code to spending all day hacking. Some people love 'em, some hate em (if nothing else, they are the coolest looking keyboards around). Supposedly, they've overcome older manufacturing problems/delays and have come down in price -- I'm sure they're still very expensive, though.

Also popular is the Kinesis which is based on the older Maltron keyboards.

As for books on CTS, the best I've seen is Pascarelli and Quilter

So I'm a 23 year old software developer, and I used to have major pain in my wrists and sometimes fingers (joint inflamation). I fully blame the problem on poor ergonomics. This is very very serious. If I am having this much trouble now, what will happen in 3-5 years? Will I have to stop typing? Stop coding? What would I do for a living?

The thing with ergonomics is that, even though you can now go out and by a nice curved keyboard (I'm a big fan of the microsoft natural), it is still designed for a mythical "average user". Your basic compUSA keyboard is not guaranteed to work for everyone.

I have adapted to my natural keyboard, so much that to use another keyboard causes me wrist pain within 5 minutes. This even occurs sometimes between home (the original big beast of a microsoft natural) and work (the slim elite version). I dread using my dad's laptop to respond to email when I visit.

I think that I'm going to have to shell out the $200-300 for one of the kinesis keyboards. The cost is easially justified if it works.

But what will I do if I adjust to that one also?


"You want to kiss the sky? Better learn how to kneel." - U2

I have been using a Kinesis contoured keyboard for about six years, and I love it. It looks a bit weird and takes a bit of getting used to, but it is the fastest, most comfortable keyboard I have ever used. The shape also makes it great if you want to recline back in your chair and put the keyboard on your lap.

From the people I've talked to about ergonomic keyboards, Kinesis always seems to come up as the keyboard to get. They're quite expensive, but hopefully you've got a company to buy it for you. They make them with QWERTY layout, Dvorak, and even dual-legend switchable QWERTY/Dvorak layouts. I haven't tried them yet, but they do offer a 30- or 60-day money-back guarantee if I recall correctly. I'm sure a Kinesis owner will chime in on this thread and let us all know how great they are.

Or you have a Kinesis keyboard. Ctrl, alt, and del are all right next to each oth....

500 AMD-K6 3d
128MB RAM...

Mine has four. Plus it does chording. Geez. Stop whining and get a real mouse.

Get a Kinesis keyboard, too, while you're at it.

I *highly* recommend their Contour Keyboard, it has saved my hands + wrists.

The solution I recommend to my fellow emacs abusers is the Kinesis contoured keyboard: Kinesis Keyboards. If you look at that URL, the contoured keyboard is the model on the left. It has the control and alt keys moved into the center, under your thumbs, which is particularly good for using emacs.

What isn't so good is the teeny ESC key, and the CAPS LOC next to the A, but all of the keys are easily reprogrammable. I use the CAPS LOC as a second ESC.

And if you're really nervous about Emacs "chording" combinations, you can always try M-x viper. You can switch to a vi-like keystroke layout without abandoning emacs's power and flexibility.

Kinesis Ergo

ok so I probably over evangelise these keyboards, but I just love them :) the Kinesis Contour (kinesis-ergo.com). I've done a quick review of mine at base.yi.org which is maybe worth a read.

Anyway, they're superb for people with wrist injuries. Infact most of the manual is dedicated to how to reduce wrist injuries, and even has a section at the back with an intro written by Herman Miller Inc (those really comfy chairs that Rob and co have from hmstore.com) that goes indepth into workspace ergonomics and risk reduction etc.

I was experiencing similar symptoms a few months ago. On the recommendation of two colleagues, I bought a Kinesis keyboard; a refurbished Essential model. They're sort of pricey and take a week or so to get used to, but they're definitely worth it. Just a thought.

www.kinesis-ergo.com

they're not cheap, but they're certainly the best I've found so far. and they look absolutely superly cool :) (been used in a few movies, for their sci-fi-ness).

although to be honest I haven't got one yet, it should be arriving in about 12 hours though :) I'll probably do a wee review of it once I've got it so maybe check base.yi.org tomorrow..

el bobo

I ordered the same model from Safe Computing for $236.25.

Safe Computing's site presents the various models with the same image and description (no info on the differences), so you should know the model you want in advance.

I use a Contured Kinesis keyboard set to use the Dvorak layout. I still use QWERTY on my flat keyboards. That has allowed me to switch easily between the two. The keystrokes are different on the Kinesis, so I just intuitively know that I should use the Dvorak layout. Sure, it took me a couple months to get up to speed on it and I wouldn't say that I'm any faster on it than I was on QWERTY, but it just seems more logical. It also helps that the Kinesis has both the QWERTY and Dvorak legends on the keys. . .

Another poster commented that programming on it is a pain. That was my first thought too, but after a couple months I got used to it. The period and quotes are in a much more logical place and I think I use those more often than {} anyway.

Finally, I think most unix commands got their esoteric names based purely on the QWERTY keyboard (like ls which is two home row strokes on opposet hands, but not that easy on the Dvorak). Good keyboards let you remap anyway, and there are always aliases.

-"Zow"

Dvorak is easier on the hands, as your fingers do not deviate as much from the home row (especially your left hand.)

For anyone seriously interested in ergonomics, I would highly recommend the kinesis contour keyboard. I bit hefty in terms of price, but considering how determined I am to prevent RSI, I think its worth every penny. The layout is hardware switchable (on QD models) so you don't have to futz with software.

Check out the Kinesis homepage and take a gander. But beware... If you decide to invest in one (or more) of these beasties, you will never hear the end of "what a funky keyboard... how do you type on that thing?"

"You know what makes America great? Everyone has the right to be wrong!"

Having used both dvorak and qwerty + microsoft ergo style keyboards and still suffered really badly with RSI, I can't suggest anything other than the Kinesis Contoured ergo keyboard; takes a while getting used to but once you are, it's fast and more comfortable than anything else. It took me 4 days of typing to get back up to 110wpm.

I think I lose a lot of time and mental momentum when I get tripped up typing important keys for coding, namely: _+;:"'`&$!@%|, etc. (no particular order). Many people who type a lot will mostly be keying text, and the punctuation is a very minor part of that... but for those of us who code for a living... Well, I tend to use other characters a lot. I also have to correct myself a lot.

Is there a keyboard layout that would be better suited for this kind of work?

Additionally, is there any sort of keyboard system that is coder-friendly? I looked into it a while ago, and the closest thing I could find was a completely user-definable chord/paddle based keyboard (here), or contoured keyboards ( here), but both seemed lacking for what I do most of the time (as well as pricy).

Does anyone else have any leads? Any thoughts on the matter?

I recently converted my CAPS LOCK key to a control key at work, and I've noticed a huge gain in comfort and usability, and I'd love to find similar gains for general coding and typing.

-Jason

ps. Obviously I could create my own 'coders keyboard layout', but I'd rather have the backing of some serious usage studies on the matter...

I think that the Dvorak layout is more comfortable. I've been using it on a Kinesis Classic QD for over a year now and every time I type on a qwerty keyboard I notice how annoying it was. I really doubt my speed has increased much. I'm certainly not any slower.

I found Kinesis Ergo somehow a few years back (I don't really remember where or why) has been making probably the most advanced keyboards I've seen in a while. A totally cross platform design with Mac/PC/Sun support that allows switching on the flying between most major keysets, including Dvorak and Qwerty I have been using a qwerty keyboard for about 12 years now, since I was 6 or 7 years old. I naturally adapted to touch typing with it and now I can type a sustained 120wpm on it. I still have yet to try a Dvorak keyboard layout because I haven't had a need -- I type more than fast enough, and typically when I'm programming I don't hit my peak 120wpm just because I'm either thinking while I'm typing or the key combo's are virtually impossible to hit while I'm speeding along. My peak recorded speed has been at 144wpm, without falling below 90% accuracy. The QWERTY Vs. Dvorak debate seems to me to just be a simple case of personal preference -- while the Dvorak is a superior layout design (15% more efficient) it's mostly due to the person controlling it. Thank you, total is $0.02, pay at the first window.
-= Making the world a better place =-

...is to buy a keyboard that can do both.

Kinesis keyboards (http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/) sells them. All you have to do is execute a three button keystroke and the keyboard automatically remaps itself from Qwerty to Dvorak and vice-versa.

I recently bought the Classic QD model and am very happy with its performance. Originally it was purchased with the thought of learning Dvorak, but my Qwerty typing improved so greatly that I've stuck with it. The keys seem so much closer to your fingers and there is rarely that uncomfortable stretching trying to hit those hard to reach keys. I really didn't see the point in going to Dvorak after seeing the improvement just from the new keyboard. Maybe someday I'll brave it...

If you don't mind spending the money and getting past the initial week learning curve, this is definitely the way to go.

If you would like to buy a hardwired keyboard check out Hard-Wired Keyboards.

Recently I got a Kinesis ergonomic keyboard that it hot swappable between qwerty and dvorak. It's also an ergo keyboard and the best peripheral for my computer I've ever bought. I highly recommend their contoured keyboards.

Something that you may want to keep in mind is that a lot of unix command line commands are optimized for qwerty, like ls, as well as emacs and vi.

I learned QWERTY touch typing in 1962, and changed
over to Dvorak in 1980. I will never go back;
QWERTY is too slow, too error-prone, and too
fatiguing. My speed increased from 40wpm to 70wpm
within a year of the change, but more importantly
my error rate was about 2/3 lower and typing was
much less fatiguing.

I've used the Kinesis keyboard for a year now, and
I don't ever want to go back to straight
keyboards. My speed went up about 20% with the
Kinesis, and my error rate is a bit lower too.

The Kinesis Essential is available for about $210
shipped. See the

Kinesis homepage for vendors; I have had good
prices and service from Softek Business Systems.

I too would like to see some unbiased scientific
studies of Dvorak vs. QWERTY. Until then I will
listen to my hands and observe my error rate; both
tell me clearly that QWERTY is perverse and
unergonomic.

For Linux users, there is a Dvorak remap file for
xmodmap in the /usr/doc tree. The file name
is"xdvorak.xmodmap".

IMO, Kinesis makes some of the most comfortable keyboards out there. They take some getting used to, and they're expensive, but well worth the money. I have had virtually no pain from typing since I started using my Kinesis Contoured Pro keyboard.

Kinesis Contoured Keyboards

Don't forget, almost all employers will do an 'ergonomic evaluation' of your workstation.. don't let them give you a Microsoft keyboard! They've got the money and generally are pretty receptive to buying things for 'ergonomic' reasons.

I dropped down from 90wpm to a about 70wpm and got a pair of Kinesis Classic keyboards (one for home and one for work). It took about a week to get to grips with it but all numbness and soreness went away. They're a few hundred bucks a pop but that's much cheaper than surgery!

Good luck.

Let me second the Kinesis keyboard recommendation. This works by dramatically limiting your wrist movement. The keys are placed into seperate wells places shoulder width apart. Keys are pressed curling and extending individual fingers. If you'll look at your hand, you'll notice that the middle finger is longest, the two adjacent fingers are about equally long, and the pinky is shortest. This determines the depth of the individual rows. Likewise, because your pinky is set back 0.5 cm towards your wrist, the Kinesis keyboard moves this row by 0.5 cm.

For more information about Kinesis, check their web site or one of their resellers. DataHand makes an even more extreme keyboard.

I examined several keyboards before selecting Kinesis. I see the split keyboards as 'halfway' measures and skipped the DataHand because I periodically need to work on non-ergonomic keyboards. By the end of the first day, I was typing at just over 60% speed and reached full speed after a week or so.

Best ergonomic keyboard I've found is the Kinesis. It has two concave keypads, one for each hand and you hardly need to move your wrists at all. Only problem is, you need to be able to use both hands to type - reaching to (e.g.) the right side pad with your left hand is awkward

If you think of yourself as a hacker a crappy design should just frost your cookies. Just think about it, Dvorac was specifically designed to be easy to use. While you may not be able to prove it's better it definately can't be any worse. I have a hot switchable Q/D keyboard from Kinesis but haven't had the time to switch, opefullly this summer.

• Kinesis