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Mainly a philosophy about making each app package "self contained" (at least relative to some defined base system, Knoppix in our case).

Yes naffer, this guy is not kidding. Many people are even impressing absolute non-technical people with that fantastic livecd. Get the ISO image, burn it to a CDROM, reboot from it, and voila! Linux.

Surelly you could still access the data and copy it onto another Hard disk, burn it to CD or copy it to a USB pen by running Knoppix.

Not well documented, but to people who want to "roll their own" knoppix-type CD, there are plenty tutorials out there. Probably one of the more useful steps in remastering your knoppix is using what is unoffically known as a "kicklist"; a file simply listing all the packages you don't want. Then you can issue apt-get remove `cat kicklist` and poof, a great deal of the knoppix cruft removed in a flash. after that it's probably a good idea to run apt-get remove `deborphan` or something like that to further remove cruft.

Now for the interesting part of this story. I learned this because I too am new to debian. Started working with the userlinux project a while back because I thought it was something it most definitely isn't, so I decided to give debian a try. Fell in love quickly. It's really nice to have virtually any piece of software you want at your fingertips, and I feel they've done a great job at this. But having such a user-friendly software installation system, with such a rediculus installer is contradicting. Could *NOT* get the previous installers to work at all, never detected my network card, so I had to swim through modprobe and the like, trying to remember which module was the driver to my network card. After a few days of attempts.. I gave up, returned to redhat and read up on the many other ways to get debian.

Knoppix fell into my lap through discussion... well everywhere. I knew it was linux, but I figured it was Redhat based, since everything this day and age is. WRONG. So I did an HD install and experimented. Removing packages was a bitch for a long time, so much cruft I absolutely didn't want. One of the hardest parts I found was removing KDE *zips on flame retardant body suit*. Finally, after trying a great deal, I thought of just removing everything QT related: apt-get remove `apt-cache pkglist | grep qt*`, and this seemed to do the trick every time.

Long story short, knoppix is a great distro, but I'd love it more if there were a "knoppix lite", which only installed the base system, and absolutely nothing more, allowing users the choice of building an entirely new system on top of it.

*one last note: if you're having trouble removing nedit from knoppix, upgrade to the newest one from unstable, and then uninstall it... works every time.*

LiveCDs have alot of purposes, I use them as servers. I run internet based games at work, At the end of the registration periods we need about 2,3,4 or more webservers just for a couple of hours to handle the load (and we have quite a few to begin with). I have a LiveCD which I can pop into any workstation and have a instant webserver (No reformating of windows machines that is).

It's based on knoppix, only took me a couple of hours to work ou how to remaster it to suit my needs.

LiveCDs are cool.

Compilation Enhancements

I hear the argument about faster executables a great deal, and it isn't a bad argument. However, Gentoo will allow you to install binary packages, and similarly Debian will allow you to install from source packages. More than that, you can actually find or create apt repositories with dependencies that are multiplexed across a set of architectures (for example, the nerim.net Mplayer repository; just tell it "mplayer-k7" and you get all the nice optimizations for Athlons with it).

Modularity

Again, Debian can be quite modular. Have you heard of Knoppix or Morphix? They are very popular, and quite modular. There are probably more Debian derivitives than any other distro because they are so modular. I realize that Gentoo might also be good in this regard, but if it isn't provably better, I don't see a reason by Debian still wouldn't be a great choice for this project.

Test the waters with a live CD like Morphix or Knoppix. If your hardware gets detected well and things just work, install it to your hard drive.

My experience with SuSE was that hardware setup was a dream. I still miss YaST. Dependency hell drove me away. Apparently APT for RPM is quite good at resolving dependencies too. I just found that with Debian software installation is painless (using Synaptic or Aptitude as a frontend for APT) and things just work (once the hardware is configured - that's where Knoppix/Morphix come in).

Debian's "testing" distribution (currently Sarge) is really quite stable. The bugs get worked out in Sid (unstable), but the software is still quite recent (unlike Woody/stable). I found dealing with software installations on other systems painful compared with Debian. Everything I need is in the package repository, so apt-get/aptitude/synaptic does everything for me.

When I upgraded from kernel 2.4.22-xfs (that came with Knoppix) to 2.4.24 (standard debian kernel) it was that simple. Two commands and a reboot and it was running. There's a setting in some config file that will run update-grub for me, but I was too lazy to make the change.

Oh, I also had to recompile my nVidia video driver, but NV makes that so easy to do. Debian has some package for it. I should get around to trying it some day.

(Knoppix.net seems to be down right now - try the original site. It's not as easy to navigate, but the ISO is available there.

andy

The Debian X packages have a problem with some SiS chipsets!!!

I installed from Knoppix long ago and having been updating since then. I installed the new X packages and rebooted only to get the dreaded screen "melting" screen that happens with some SiS chips. Problem was this didn't just happen when exiting X, it also happened when starting X. Whoops. Of course the testing and stable trees had the same problems.

This screwed me of using X unless I wanted to compile the whole thing myself (on a notebook? No thanks). Thankfully I had just imaged my hard disk a few days ago using Knoppix and was able to restore. Look here for instructions (hint: start with cheatcodes dma 2 and leave the thing alone while restoring).

I'll be filing a bug report on this one for sure.

Over half of these 100 "Distros" are Knoppix remasters. Here's a list of 60+ Knoppix remasters. The reason there are so many? It's very easy to make your own Knoppix remaster. I'm pretty sure many of these distros have 5 users if the're lucky.

Over half of these 100 "Distros" are Knoppix remasters. Here's a list of 60+ Knoppix remasters. The reason there are so many? It's very easy to make your own Knoppix remaster. I'm pretty sure many of these distros have 5 users if the're lucky.

Of course it's been idle for a while, so Knoppix is a great substitute considering a lot of the same tools are on there

Knoppix-MiB has ppc isos, see the discussion and posts by 'fleny68' here.

It supports upgrade. Easy as pie. Check knoppix.net or knopper.net forums.

kernel upgrade question
hdinstall forums
Easy way to get Debian running in record time. Mepis is another possibility. I blame them for the renewed popularity of Debian.

It supports upgrade. Easy as pie. Check knoppix.net or knopper.net forums.

kernel upgrade question
hdinstall forums
Easy way to get Debian running in record time. Mepis is another possibility. I blame them for the renewed popularity of Debian.

You could try asking here.

I mean, Debian with KDE? Wow man - debian-fanboys look at you in a very frightning way... ;)
Do you have any idea what you're talking about? KDE in Debian unstable is 3.1.5 currently, and will be 3.2.0 within a couple days. I've had unofficial packages of 3.2b2 and 3.2rc1 since the official trees were tagged. They work great. I will, however, be lurking in #debian-kde@freenode so I can get the news when the packaging is done.

tried Debian (installation simply sucks)
The new installer is much better. It's not graphical (it shouldn't be) but it's easy as pie. Also, there are numberous LiveCD installers for Debian - none are official however. Some are faithful to Debian standards, some have trouble but are still okay.

I'm a Debian user, but my fanboyism belongs to Free Software. So use your Gentoo if that makes you happy. Just don't bullshit about other distros.

Do what I did: Use Knoppix. It's perfect way to try Linux. Download the iso-image, burn it on cd and boot your computer with it. Ta-da, you have Linux with a nice collection of apps (KDE + several other desktop managers, Mozilla, OpenOffice, etc). It's a bit slow cos it doesn't use hard drive at all (by default). When you're done playing with Linux, take the cd off and reboot. You have WinXP again.

Here are the instructions for the most common distros.

Generic
rm -rf /opt/gnome
Debian.
apt-get remove gnome
Mandrake
Menu > Configuration > Packaging > Remove software then search for gnome and tick all instances off
Red hat
Just uninstall red hat altogether, it is closely interwined with Gnome that is better getting a gnome hostile distribution.
Sun Java Desktop.
Get SuSE 8.2, its the same thing but without gnome installed

Gnome free distributions. These distributions dont contain gnome.

Arklinux
Xandros
Lindows
Lycoris
TurboLinux
Knoppix the K in it stands for KDE!

The Knoppix Remastering howto page is here. The howto walks you through building your own customized, Knoppix-based distribution and also has a link to a page about customizing the Knoppix kernel itself. I also recommend an O'Reilly article that gives another overview of the remastering process.

There's a guide to remastering Knoppix that could help. I mean, while you're at it, you might as well tweak the application set.

See for yourself.

The following line blows my criteria for a Mom-ready Linux distro:

Price:
Xandros Standard $39.95, Xandros Deluxe $89

Yes, I'm cheap. But I got Knoppix from these guys for like three bucks, and that's just 'cause I was too lazy to configure the CD burner to do it myself.

When I screw something up on the Linux box, my wife shakes her head and says "You get what you pay for." On the other hand, she's not too excited about shelling out $100+ for Windows, and I'm not too excited about shelling out $40+ for Linux. Besides, if I weren't screwing up my installation all the time, how would I learn?

Of course, I could always do what one of my relatives did. He downloaded a pirated copy of WinXP Professional, and doesn't feel the least bit guilty. He was amused when he tried to apply a patch and got a message like "Dude! It's pirated! Go look for another download!". As a programmer (who enjoys getting *paid* to code), I just smile, while trying not to breathe through my nose... at least he doesn't ask me for tech support.

There seems to be a lot of the "waaa Linux is always copying Windows" type of comment on these articles. Yeah, copying Windows is lame. Lots of folks suggest "coming up with some new idea to wow everyone" - well, I haven't seen one worth pursuing yet.

In the meantime, I think we would to well to try and dupe MacOSX - I hereby command all you Slashdot junkies to band together and create a Linux distro inspired by Knoppix, or better yet MEPIS, that duplicates the look of OSX. Many Windows users are closet Macophiles, but they're trapped in their hardware and software configuration. Give them an OSX-y Linux with OpenOffice.org and they'll drop Windows like the bad habit that it is.

While we're at it, make the installer automagically import all their emails, favorites and My Documents directory. OK ready, set GO!

Chapter 3.7 of the Debian Install HOWTO describes a cross install method for debian which works quite well.

• boot Knoppix
• Follow Cross Install Instructions
• Ready.

Why aren't there more LiveCD installers? I used Knoppix as my debian installer and it was such a good experience that given the choice I would never go back to anything else. Text based installers are powerful, but for the pure user experience, being able to boot into a full OS and surf the web and listen to music while the OS installs in the background seems like the best way. So why aren't there more such discs? Also related, is this something other geeks would want? I can see the elitism of loving debian's old isntaller, but how much worse is a LiveCD version? Is the only problem hardware support? Its easier to have a simple installer that works on everything than try to get a LiveCD to boot? Appeal to the lowest common denominator?

I'm not alone in making the first. If you're using a highspeed connection, get a connection sharing router/firewall. These things are amazingly cheap now (as low as a 1/10 of what I paid for mine) and will protect you from a lot of problems.

My second suggestion is to download a copy of Knoppix and run it from CD before you ever update the Windows software. See if Knoppix cleanly connects to other computers as well as to the Internet. This likely sounds like a strange suggestion, so let me explain why I'm making it: I got a notebook this year and it ran Knoppix fine, connecting to my local network and (through the router) to the Internet. After a few weeks I installed the Windows "security updates". Now Knoppix will no longer boot from the same CD's and connect to the network! I've found some work arounds, but it's clear to me that the security updates are the likely cause for some really evil changes made (I suspect to the built-in NIC's configuration ROM) that stop some Linux configurations from working.

If you get that new PC and you ever want to run something else other than Windows, it might be nice to know if Knoppix (Linux) ran fine and connected to the network without problems before installing the "security updates"

Don't forget to burn a Knoppix CD. It's a life saver when an OS fails.

You may want to use knoppix-installer instead. I believe it made its debut in 3.2, but I know it's in 3.3 (what I'm using now).

> 3. Type knx-hdinstall

As far as I know, knx-hdinstall is deprecated with current Knoppix versions (starting June this year as far as I remember); the preferred method to perform a hard disk installation is now knoppix-installer. Gives you the choice to do a Knoppix installation or a Debian installation, too.

Knoppix.net has more live CD distros than distrowatch, the're listed here

And something even sweeter. Knoppix is also based on Debian.

Why not give Knoppix a try if you want an easy install. It is incredibly easy to install to HD as well, just boot up without X ( hit F2 for boot options, then type in knoppix 2), and type in knx-hdinstall. Answer a few questions and you will have a very up to date Debian based system.

I keep a copy around for a rescue disk and for detecting hardware for new installs.

This is going to be fun. I've got a PC in the shed that a co-worker gave me... it's got two hard drives and neither one seems to work. He and the tech guy here at work poked on it for a while before giving up on it entirely. I had no idea I could pop a CD in there and either get things going again in Linux, or at least use the CPU power.

I think I'll put in an order at TuxCDs.com (referenced on the Knoppix site) for a Knoppix distro and a Linux games CD -- hopefully the games disc will give my wife a good feeling for the OS.

But I'll wait until Monday... see if any more Slashdotters come back with even more cool ideas I didn't even know were options. I've been chained to MS and VB for waaaaay too long.

Download a Knoppix .iso, make CD

Boot system with Knoppix CD

Open console, type

sudo knoppix-install

Follow curses-based menus to create partitions and select bootloader. Reboot.
No packages to select, no painful Debian installer, just an easy desktop Debian installation in about 15 minutes (total install, depnding on RAM and CDROM speed). For more fun, after installation, a quick

apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade

Debian's had an excellent installer for a while now...

It's called Knoppix

I was looking to install a Linux distribution that did things how the package authors intended, not how the distributor thought things should work. Red Hat et. al... tended to modify original packages, file locations, etc. a bit too much for my liking.

Knoppix's hdinstall method got me an up & running Debian install in one easy step. The boot CD lets you test your hardware for compatibility before anything's installed. When everything's tested, a simple hdinstall invocation copies the working system over to disk.

Easy as pie.

Installation from a liveCD is different from say a debian installation. You can't stick on a bare base system and then hand pick what you want on top of it, but for 90%+ of the potential matket they would not want to tailor the install they just want to install! Of course once you have installed it you can strip things back out if that's what you desire.

Secondly on installing, you say that a liveCD install is worse because of higher system requirements. While I can understand your point I think that this again is linked to the first issue as the system would target a certain level of hardware and if you don't meet them then you would need a lighter weight system. Of course running from a liveCD requires a cdrom drive ... or a network connection (Knoppix can be run across a network from etherboot) or copying the ISO onto a USB hard disk or ...

Finally on installing, I do not see where your increased risk of trojans comes from. How is installing from a liveCD any different then installing from an installation cd? If you don't trust the source then you won't trust the system. Who is to say the the liveCD is going to install it's own binary content? It could simply act as a stage 1 gentoo system and then download and emerge the rest from online sources. Isn't an installation cd simply a different sort of liveCD which is used to install the system? Don't most systems usually install the kernel from the installation cd onto the new system for example?

I respect your opinion that currently liveCDs are limited, but I have to disagree. Perhaps they are limited for the devlopers of new liveCDs, but from the perspective of the end user (99%+ of the potential audience) there is variety out there. Just look at the Knoppix remasters out there which cater for everything from medics to dance dancers and clusterers.

It's great to hear that remasters based on Mandrake do exist (and I suspected they did) but it would be far nicer to see them out in the wild and being worked on by interested communities. Time for you to release maybe?

dd if=/dev/hda1 of=/dev/hdb1

For anyone thinking "that won't work on Windows", you can get a linux boot CD at the Linux-BBC project, or get them with a FSF membership. Or use knoppix if you want a full installation on bootable CD.

Oh yeah, and stop reccommending Windows for corporate desktops.

I've never tried that, but this will work with NTFS formatted disks, correct? And all the boot block info as well?

Even if you don't have a linux box handy to work with, there is always knoppix. Add your new drive to your windows box and boot with the knoppix cd, then dd away.

I've had a lot of success using Knoppix and dd. Knoppix is a full linux distro on a CD.

I image a lot of identical laptops. With Knoppix, I can pop in a boot CD along with a pcmcia firewire card attached to a big external drive. Everything (even sound!) is detected on boot up and I can mount the external drive and dd an image to or from. I can write a 20 gig image to the laptop in just over 12 minutes. Going the other way takes a bit longer... haven't figured that one out.

I was using ghost, but its a royal pain. Limited support for external devices (no pcmcia support). Network backups involve making DOS/Windows for Workgroup (!) boot disks. Ick all around. Knoppix works much better. Network interfaces are also detected and configured via dhcp, so I could do net backups as well.

--Knoppix links:
FTP site

Torrent

Support forum

Forget about installing stable/unstable, instead download Knoppix which is a complete Debian distro on a bootable CD. You boot the CD, which then autodetects all your hardware, then you run the knx-installer script to install the whole thing on your harddisk. You don't have a choice in what packages to get, but after installation you can easily remove (and add) others.

While Bruce Perens seems to be talking more about development, not distribution (you can't really develop assuming Live CD's, or else your stuff might not work well on full systems), your point that Live CD's are incredibly important for evangilism is a good one.

Also, note that the most popular Live CD's either are Knoppix or are based on Knoppix. Knoppix itself is based on Debian, so supporting Debian is supporting Live CDs.

I wish KDE and GNOME could have some sort of truce and just make the a collabritive effort to help the Desktop. None of the projects work together even though they all depend on each other.

Odd, they have had a truce, and Blucurve is part of Fedora Core 1.

Tryknoppix for KDE 3.1 and Debian Unstable and Slackware and Mandrake for both Gnome 2.4, and KDE 3.1. (they now share a desktop now mind you)

I thnk that most of the "fanboys", or people who acutaly took the time to learn and use Linux would agree with me that in the past year alone there has been exponential progres with KDE and GNOME to the point that they really are ready for the desktop, if not very very close.
A year ago the parent(s) might have been accurate a year ago but not they are just troll.

Surely it would be in the best interests of game publishers to come up with a Knoppix style self booting Linux game platform for their games?

If all of this leaves you and your Mac cold, I'm sorry. Debian does have a Mac port, but I'm unfamiliar with it. Knoppix is on the way for you if it's not already here.

Free software for everyone!

Or you can install Knoppix, which is what I did. So much easier. I hope the Debian folks take the hint and adopt the Knoppix hardware recognition stuff with a simple installer.

You still forgot the easiet distro to get up and running.

Or throw new users a Knoppix CD.
It's not only a painless way to get a full, normal, and healthy Debian testing system installed, but they can see what it's like on their system before they even install.

Run knoppix testcd at the SYSLINUX bootprompt to verify the integrity of the cd. Hit F2 for short list of other options. E.g., knoppix dma will enable DMA, and knoppix fluxbox will use the fluxbox wm.