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console games are fun to play because you sit on the couch in your living room.

The same is true of computer games once you connect your second computer's HDMI output to your TV's HDMI input and connect an Xbox 360 controller, USB HID controller, Steam Controller, or Lenovo's N5902 handheld Bluetooth keyboard and trackball. Have a look in the controller-friendly section of Steam.

What prevents someone from putting a mini PC next to their TV?

Four things, at least.

• First, a mini PC boots by default into a launcher designed for a mouse and keyboard or for a touch screen, not for a gamepad. The Windows Start Screen won't take input from an Xbox 360 controller without third-party mouse emulation software. Some people work around this by buying a Bluetooth thumb keyboard and trackball that fits in the user's hands like a QWERTY slider phone, such as the Lenovo N5902.
• Second, a lot of mini PCs have Atom CPUs to save on price and cooling, and Atom is designed more for smartphone apps and noninteractive video playback than for the kind of game that one would play on a console.
• Third, tradition. There's a widespread mental set that PCs aren't for the living room. As CronoCloud put it: "Non-nerds simply have no desire to hook up their PC to their TV." See other Slashdot comments by HTPC refusers.
• Fourth, there aren't a lot of well-known mini gaming PC brands that one can pick up in a Target or Best Buy store, and not everybody is willing to spend hours learning to build his own mini gaming PC from parts.

And the switch to monthly subscription for office is a very bad thing, i hope people realize this as well!

I don't see the problem here.

Office 365 Home Premium $99/yr.

5 PCs and/or Macs + any five mobile devices + your Windows phones.
MS Office Pro, full versions of every program, locally resident and always up to date.
MS Office Anywhere, full versions of every program, streamed on demand to any Win7/8 PC.
MS Office Web and Office on Mobile Devices.
20 GB of SkyDrive Storage
60 minutes of global Skype calls per month.

If you are a college student, Office 365 University is $80 for four years with an option to renew in the third year.

If you are a NPO, Office 365 can be yours for free. Office 365 for Nonprofits

If you need a managed turn-key HIPPA compliant medical office system Microsoft has you covered. Microsoft Office 365 for Health Organizations

it won't cost any less than one with Windows pre-loaded.

lol, only if you're getting it from curry's or dell. Besides, the markup on those machines is so high that it really doesn't matter what you want, what you're getting is ripped off. Buy your parts, it'll be half the cost and the savings from not installing windows on it are pretty evident. If you don't want to build it yourself, look online for one of those shops that assemble them for you for a small markup. It's the same fucking parts you'd get at dell, except for the shitty ass case. Do try to avoid paying £800 for a £500 desktop, even if it does mean going a little out of your way.

Not valid online, and the nearest store is about 100 miles away.

Not valid online, and the nearest store is about 100 miles away.

Actually, the latest version of Office RT (2013) does include Outlook.

Yes, the latest version, which doesn't have a formal release date yet, which will be "coming out soon", does include Outlook. That's certainly good to know.

If you're one of the lucky teachers or one of the students however, like those in the article, don't count on getting Outlook without being forced to pay full retail for Outlook separately, or pay full retail for Office RT (2013), or pay for full retail for an Office 365 subscription instead. After all even on the more expensive Surface Pro, the Office Home & Student 2013 edition does not include Outlook. And there is no reason to believe this is going to change for the RT edition once Outlook RT does get released.

That would have to be either a very large Best Buy store or a really small isle. Do they have outlets in Polynesia?

As a matter of fact: http://content.microsoftstore.com/detail/Alamoanacenter

Couchslug just pointed out to me that Microsoft is selling Windows 7 at the Microsoft Store. Either something has changed or both Microsoft and I were both being morons a few weeks ago. (I wouldn't exclude the latter possibility.) I thought I'd repost here just to correct my previous statement.

It's still for sale:

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/list/parentCategoryID.44066700/categoryID.60521000

"They are ramming Windows 8 down consumers' throats."

Downloading a clean Windows 7 .iso then using an activator solves that problem.

There is good reason that the first reaction to new OS releases in the "rest of the world" is to figure out ways to get it free.

I've done it several times. It's much faster than dragging out a piece of hardware I'm never going to use again to burn a disc I'm never going to use again.

Don't know and don't care if this works for your bizarro OS of choice.

It would seem someone from Apple Retail took a walk through one of the many shopping malls their stores are located in, and got a load of this: http://content.microsoftstore.com/home.aspx I walk in, and know I'm in a Microsoft Store, not an Apple Store, but my gosh does it reek of being a blatant rip-off. Higher fidelity to the original than most Microsoft rip-offs, too...

And yes TFS can scale.

And at US$499 per user Cal, so can its price.

There are some Win8 tablets with digitizer pens, though most of them are convertibles - e.g. Samsung ATIV (which, unlike x86 Surface, also has a cheaper Atom version).

There are some Win8 tablets with digitizer pens, though most of them are convertibles - e.g. Samsung ATIV (which, unlike x86 Surface, also has a cheaper Atom version).

Surface Pro is the best tablet that can run x86 applications. Show me another machine that is as thin, light, and powerful with a stylus. You can't.

Sure I can. Thinner, lighter, Core i5, and it has a stylus.

And now that netbooks are discontinued, on which device that fits in a bag that can hold a device with a 10" screen should people write and test code while riding public transit?

1. E.g. this or this? (you didn't say anything about price being the same as netbooks)

2. Buy a larger bag? The difference between 10" and 12" is barely noticeable when you already need a bag to carry something around. It's not like it's a phone.

3. I don't think Google cares much about "write and test code while riding public transit" as a use case.

And now that netbooks are discontinued, on which device that fits in a bag that can hold a device with a 10" screen should people write and test code while riding public transit?

1. E.g. this or this? (you didn't say anything about price being the same as netbooks)

2. Buy a larger bag? The difference between 10" and 12" is barely noticeable when you already need a bag to carry something around. It's not like it's a phone.

3. I don't think Google cares much about "write and test code while riding public transit" as a use case.

Many OEM's offer no crapware boxes at higher prices. It is the bottom end that is loaded with that junk. Microsoft Signature machines are mid range consumer machines with a tuned OS and none of that nonsense.

If you don't like crapware Microsoft offers no crapware tuned systems: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/en_US/pd/productID.235559700

How many other devices act as both a tablet and a laptop, and do justice to both use cases?

You can start here for a very incomplete list.

If you buy that machine from the Microsoft Store It's only $1700 and doesn't come with any crapware (Windows 8 Signature).

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/html/pbPage.MicrosoftSignature

Vizio PCs dont have any crapware either.

What has this got to do with Windows 8?

If MS stopped OEMs from bundling Google toolbar, everyone here will be crying antitrust.

You want MS to make Windows a closed platform like iOS?

Freedom is not free.

It's fine for small projects and it can, with difficulty, be scaled up for large ones (there are real-world examples aplenty), but if you are designing a big project from the ground up, ASP.NET might be a reasonable choice.

While I know it wasn't all ASP.net are we talking London Stock Exchange big? There are some additional hidden costs when using a Microsoft tool chain such as SQL Server license(s) and Windows Server license(s). If you're designing a big project this is where Java shines (I'm not a Java guy either). At the end of the day they're tools to get the job done and infrastructure considerations are part of the project.

Windows 8 Pro upgrade is $39 (digital) or $69 (physical). Windows 7 Pro was $199 for the upgrade (Home Premium was $119) at release. I would call an 80% (or 66%, depending on the version) reduction in price pretty significant.

The nearest Microsoft retail store is a hundred miles away and I live in a city of 120,000. Epic fail. Who in their right mind would make a 200 mile round trip to see if a new Microsoft product sucked?

most people want to play with the device before they commit their hard-earned money on it

Presumably they can do that by visiting the nearest Microsoft retail store or by finding a real life friend or relative who has visited a Microsoft store.

I don't even think Microsoft looks at the events they sponsor. I can't tell you how many tech events I've been to where Microsoft was listed as a "Gold" sponsor. The last few were small ones in a 100 person conference room and nobody from Microsoft was even there. They just paid the x number of dollars to get their name listed as a sponsor for the event. What is $20,000 to a company that charges $30,000 for a single-processor edition of SQL Server 2008 Enterprise?

I'm not so sure. The Windows phone never took off like they wanted it to. Plus the surface is $519 minimum. If I'm going to spend $519 on a device it's going to be a laptop. Sure the surface can have "touch cover" - not a real keyboard, for $619. The real keyboard "type cover" costs more. With this price, you can get a low end ultra book, that will still outperform the surface tablet. I think they might sell a few to people who don't realize it's not real Windows and won't run all their old Windows programs, but I don't see a lot of advantage to buying this over a real Windows laptop.

You can buy Windows 7 now for ~200$. Or you can buy Windows 8 now for ~70$. Or you can buy Windows 8 as digital download in a less than a week for $40.

http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/html/pbpage.Windows_8_Pro

It's up to you, but if you've got a few *NIX machines on your LAN, and know enough to as Slashdot, you can deal with burning a DVD.

If Office RT supplies 1- the features 2- the stability like the others, and adds 3- perfect import/export, then most professionals on Office will gladly pay the same or a bit more than for any other tablet.

Consumers not hooked on Office probably won't though, and probably shouldn't. Android has most everything needed for content consumption, at half the price.

Interestingly, the version of office shipping on this thing is for home use only and must not be used in a commercial setting. (Why the F is it called 'office' if you can't use it there...?)

Office Home & Student 2013 RT Preview and the final version are not for use in commercial, nonprofit, or revenue generating activities. Commercial license options available (sold separately).

See also: http://surface.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/Content/pbpage.Surface - see item 2 in the small print at the bottom. It seems to require a Business or Pro version of Office, pushing the TCO way past the iPad.

When I look at the surface, I see a tablet with the screen and SoC of a $400 tablet (iPad 2 or Asus Transformer Prime), bundled with software (Office instead of iWork) that costs $30 in Apple's app store. So in my mind, it should cost $430. That said, people must be ordering it, because the basic version is sold out and new orders are shipping later. Of course, Microsoft could just have thrown up that statement to attract attention. Even if they have sold many, we don't know how many. We're just going to have to wait 90 days and look at MS's financials.

Looks like I was wrong on one count, the basic model of the Surface has sold out and new orders are shipping later. But Microsoft doesn't think HDMI is needed on an entry level tablet, either: their HDMI adapter costs $39.99! That's actually 99 cents more than Apple's adapter, for what it's worth :-D

Looks like I was wrong on one count, the basic model of the Surface has sold out and new orders are shipping later. But Microsoft doesn't think HDMI is needed on an entry level tablet, either: their HDMI adapter costs $39.99! That's actually 99 cents more than Apple's adapter, for what it's worth :-D

From brief looking around there, the prices are horribly out of whack. Heres their idea of a sub-$500 laptop:
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/pd/Dell-Vostro-1440/productID.249116600/vip.true
Thats a Gen-1 Core processor and a 320GB drive, no USB3, and Windows Home. Pretty sure I could go elsewhere and for $500 get a Gen2 core, USB3 slots, and Windows 7 pro; last year I did basically as much, except $50 cheaper and sans the Pro edition.

If you want a deal, buy the laptop normally and reinstall windows yourself. Youll thank me later.

Microsoft has a program for no crapware where they also tune the OS called Micosoft signature: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/html/pbPage.MicrosoftSignature

Yes they can afford it. The OEM's can't really go anywhere.

That being said I'm nor sure if Surface exists as a reference implementation or as a product or as a serious push. I know Microsoft is getting frustrated with their OEM's selling crap and they are pushing for a better experience ( example: http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/html/pbPage.MicrosoftSignature ). But... there is a huge difference between Microsoft bitching about OEMs and be willing to lose the bottom 3rd of the market.

I think Microsoft is willing to push up the price point
I think Surface is a reference implementation not a serious product (i.e. I'm not expecting them to sell a lot).

But I also know I'm guessing.

Newegg only has OEM versions of Windows, the licensing is limited to computers for resale.

The real price is $200USD:
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/en_US/pd/Windows-7-Home-Premium/productID.235488300/parentCategoryID.44066700/categoryID.50726100/list.true?Icid=WinCat_032012_Compgrid_boxshot1_Win7HP_PID_235488300&WT.mc_id=WOL_shop

If you buy a Windows 7 computer, you also cannot transfer the license to another computer.

And the link you listed for the $300USD computer doesn't work outside of the USA.

A retail copy of Windows costs $300? I guess you're including the price of the netbook?

Seriously, how do people keep not getting this?
Microsoft Store, Retail Windows 7 Home Premium - US$299.99 (download). And no, I don't think they throw in a netbook.
Can you get it cheaper elsewhere? Sure you can! Even Ultimate is less than $300 on Newegg.
That does not mean that Windows does not cost $300 - it only means that you'd be daft to pay Microsoft's full price.

From that page (thanks for providing the link):

When you purchase software, you are actually purchasing a license to use the software rather than purchasing the software itself. Software licenses purchased at the Microsoft Store are subject to the license agreement that accompanies the software product. You will be required to agree to the terms and conditions of the license agreement at the time you install the software. Please read the Microsoft Store Information on Terms of Use for more information. BECAUSE SOFTWARE PRODUCTS GENERALLY CANNOT BE RETURNED ONCE OPENED, PLEASE CONTACT THE MICROSOFT STORE IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO READ A COPY OF THE APPLICABLE LICENSE AGREEMENT BEFORE YOU OPEN THE SOFTWARE.

Stop claiming that you 'buy' a software product - you don't.

I'll stop "claiming" that I buy copies of software when the vendors stop telling me that I do. Google for "buy windows 7" and see that the first links are to "Buy Windows 7 or upgrade to another edition", "Buying Windows 7: top questions", "Find great prices & selection on Microsoft Windows software; shop & buy Windows 7 Home Premium, Windows 7 Professional, & more." with a banner ad reading "Buy Windows® 7 Now - Fast, Easy Download. Official Site.". You're awfully certain of your specious hypothesis given that Microsoft themselves contradict you.

Try the same experiment with "buy autocad", "buy photoshop", and... wait for it... "buy os x". None of those companies say "buy a limited, EULA-bound license to use $foo as we see fit!"

Are the paparazzi carrying the accessories of that bundle? Individually bought the Purity HD headset is about 150-200$ and the Play360 speaker maybe 100-150$. Slantdot editing at it's finest.

What OS does Apple sell?

Apple Store

What computer models does Microsoft sell?

MS store

See the difference?

Maybe.

I do like this part from the Apple store.

To upgrade your Mac to OS X Lion, you must be running OS X Snow Leopard. If you have OS X v10.5 Leopard, purchase OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard now and install it on your Mac. Then buy OS X Lion as a digital download from the Mac App Store

Emphasis mine.

Nice. Insult the poster when he states something that is demonstratably correct, then offer absolutely no proof of your claim. Unlike you, some of us are willing to be civil in our discussion, and would even welcome the opportunity to be proven wrong when shown the evidence. By all means, please tell us how you can procure a legal copy of Windows 7 Ultimate on a non OEM machine for less than $46.99. I'm serious, that would be great information to have.

The ExoPC is sold through the Microsoft store and is currently on sale for $399 for the 64Gb model. http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/en_US/pd/productID.224518200/parentCategoryID.44066900/categoryID.54536100/list.true I've got one and love it. There is also a healthy community installing alternate OSes on it - including Ubuntu and Meego. http://exocommunity.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=107

I've been looking for such a tablet as well. It would be great to properly make artwork and take notes with a stylus and run some of the usual software.

I was thinking about the Asus slate for a while, but now I have my eye on a Samsung tablet that they just released. The Samsung Series 7 Slate. It is very similar the Asus but slightly lighter, thinner, more widescreen, and longer battery life. Similar price. It looks like they are not quite meeting demand yet since it is sold out most places. There are a few configurations with 64gb or 128gb SSD drive and different "bundles" with dock and/or bluetooth keyboard and/or stand case. Best Buy Business, Microsoft Store.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/aa366778(v=vs.85).aspx#physical_memory_limits_windows_7 No Windows 7 Home Premium OEM 16 GB cheap box for dev soon :)

What's your definition of "cheap"? Yeah, Microsoft charges USD 200 for Windows 7 Home Premium retail, but HP's selling a 16GB system for $1,269.99 with Windows 7 Home Premium.

Hell, if we don't require Windows, even the company everybody likes to beat up for making horrible overpriced machines will sell you a 16GB Core i5 iMac for USD 2100 (1TB disk rather than the 750GB disk on the HP, but a 2.7GHz quad-core Core i5 rather than a Core i7-2600 quad-core "up to 3.8GHz" with Turbo-Hydramatic, err, sorry, Turbo-Boost).

Agreed. For only $11,899 you too could own Visual Studio 2010 Ultimate. Either that, or you could pay your rent, buy a nice boat, or a decent car.

Except, if you read the link you posted, that's for a full MSDN subscription that includes multiple licenses to all their operating systems, all their office applications, virtualization, dynamics, small business, expression suites, all their developer tools, all of their servers (exchange, sharepoint, lync, biztalk, sql, etc...) and a lot of other software, not just VS2010 ultimate.

If they price it above most developers budgets than they're going to be bypassed.

Agreed. For only $11,899 you too could own Visual Studio 2010 Ultimate. Either that, or you could pay your rent, buy a nice boat, or a decent car.

Apparently 14 of them now. I don't know how profitable they are though as MS has not divulged or bragged about that aspect. Apple retails stores do seem profitable.

I walked in one once. It's eery how they are total rip off of the Apple store. I think the employee uniforms, furniture and paint came from the same supplier.