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Netscape is based on Mozilla

SUN has something called StarOffice, based on OpenOffice

No, if you want the kitchen sink then you need Mozilla

I have the same objection to Mozilla's memory footprint and load time. My solution was a little different than yours.

Instead of dealing with IE, I switched to Phoenix. The version 0.5 is kinda worrisome, but it is basically Mozilla 1.2 with a bunch of the excess junk stripped out. All the functionality for the browser, strips out the news and mail clients, and simplifies the user interface some. (Still supports all the configuration options through the CSS and js files.)

Try it, you may find you like it.

Huh? Many of the software packages I use are configured via plaintext files and perform extremely well, and are very easy to maintain in an enterprise enviroment.

Sorry, http://www.speex.org is valid XHTML 1.0 Strict The Open Source community suggest that you get a better browser.

Now, if they'd just produce a Windows version, I could switch to that.

(I'd be using Mozilla if it wasn't for this bug)

Why would anyone complain about bloat in Mozilla? If you don't want the bloat, then download Phoenix instead. (I did, and I'm incredibly happy)

http://lxr.mozilla.org/seamonkey/source/netwerk/bu ild/nsNetModule.cpp#835

HTH
/mike

NTLM easily explained

When I try the link in my IE6 I get... :

---
The XML page cannot be displayed

Cannot view XML input using style sheet. Please correct the error and then click the Refresh button, or try again later.

Parameter entity must be defined before it is used. Error processing resource 'http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd'. Line 85, Position 2

%xhtml-prefw-redecl.mod;
-^
---

Now is MS bitching about the W3 or Mozilla?

about:kitchensink doesn't work for the most recent build for windows, but you can still see it using mozilla:

http://www.mozilla.org/catalog/web-developer/examp les/kitchensink.xml

For some reason, this article got me to thinking about operating systems.

I just wish people would take the time or get the opportunity to see Mozilla perform on the Linux side of things.

I know there are probably a couple million who only use Mozilla at work, and at work they probably have to run Windows 2000 because their boss uses Lotus Notes or something. It's really a shame that they are forced to use the Windows GUI and strict C++ environment.

Suggestion: All you Windows folks should try out Mozilla on Linux. Get one of those Linux-On-A-CD distributions that you can just boot up from and instantly be running Linux. Get the latest Mozilla build (from ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/latest/ ) and see what you're missing. It just -- *feels* -- so much different and better on the native Linux side of things. Kind of like how driving a car feels better outside on a spring day than inside on a turf track.

Just my two cents, though, but I really feel like Mozilla is so much more than many people see.

Anyone know any more of these 'features'? :)

bug 56061 - about:about: RFE to display a clickable list of all the supported about:*

Damn. When I was writing that post, I meant to include this link , but got chatting to a friend and clean forgot.

Basically that bug shows Ben Bucksch being paid to hack on a feature for Mozilla. He hunted down the bug (Roaming Profiles), and found there were people wanting to scrap legacy NS4.7 networks but who were limited by the lack of roaming in Mozilla, and he managed to raise the funds and get paid to work on it.

That's the sort of thing I'm thinking of.

I3ML is a language for creating user interfaces. It is a language that has all that is needed to create a rich Windows user interface, and nothing that is not ... I3ML is XML; ... I3ML is an XML dialect for describing Windows user interfaces ... datetime pickers, grids, groupboxes, menu bars, panels, picturepanels, speedbars, tabsets, toolbars, trees, windows...

Somebody at the Mozilla project would add alot of credibility to the committee, showing that the standard has some relevance.

I3ML is a language for creating user interfaces. It is a language that has all that is needed to create a rich Windows user interface, and nothing that is not ... I3ML is XML; ... I3ML is an XML dialect for describing Windows user interfaces ... datetime pickers, grids, groupboxes, menu bars, panels, picturepanels, speedbars, tabsets, toolbars, trees, windows...

Somebody at the Mozilla project would add alot of credibility to the committee, showing that the standard has some relevance.

try using google... limit it to MS's kb site...

Maybe thats why I recently started using Phoenix?

They didn't do it in release 0.5, btw.

They only said in 0.5 (scroll down to items 14 & 15) that they would do it in the future.

The codename for the 0.6 beta is "Glendale", but I'm not downloading it just to see what's inside. Maybe after dinner.

Personally, I think they should change the name to Pheonix and tell Phoenix to go shove an EPROM up their ass.

Where can I buy it?

As for what it is, IRC does sound an awful lot like this "innovative" new Microsoft product, except that it's been around for much, much longer (I remember using it a whole decade ago, and it's probably older than that).

You could choose to buy the Microsoft Plus media and productivity pack, or not.

You already can.

The whole thing depends on the power of the default.

So, you advocate removal of the default? If they don't have IE, how the hell are they going to download Mozilla?

There is little incentive to really develop these applications due to lack of potential return on investment.

Hence the obvious lack of good alternative browsers.

The bundled stuff presents a nice target for those who would write viruses and such.

No, user idiocy presents a nice target for those who would write viruses and such. Most infections are due to people double clicking on .exe attachments - that's not going to be fixed anytime soon.

so I have Internet Explorer, AIM, Winamp, etc.

so I have Internet Explorer, AIM, Winamp, etc.

so I have Internet Explorer, AIM, Winamp, etc.

I just checked the Localization page on the Mozilla website again, and I still can't find the French translation of version 1.2.1.
Anyone have a pointer?

Makes the Forward button a lot more useful. Vote for that enhancement! bug 187187

Quote:

"The ability to create ways to preprocess pages before they display would be a welcome addition to Mozilla's capabilities."
"TS is based on the idea of a very simple, open API, and the use of various modules which users may install and configure through the preferences panels. These modules would receive the webpage before it is fully parsed, and transform it as they are programmed, passing the transformed webpage either to the next module (they may be chained), or to the rendering/parsing engine. Naturally, users may want to run more than one module at a time, perhaps one that acts as a HTML filter to remove hostile tags (like BLINK and EMBED), and another as a simple lingual translation engine. Similarly, users may wish for modules to be applied to only some webpages, perhaps those in a foreign language or with a hostile PICS rating, and not other. "

http://www.mozilla.org/blue-sky/extension/199805/p reprocess.html

Mozilla team seems reluctant to implement this, do they fear something from sites hosting advertizing ?
I can already imagine my favorite pages customized on the fly by Mozilla with my preferences, or even colaborative preferences.
( cnn, zdnet, ... with no more ads, popup, useless side columns or top rows. Oops: unsubscribed user has the ads gone on slashdot! )

Quote:

"The ability to create ways to preprocess pages before they display would be a welcome addition to Mozilla's capabilities."
"TS is based on the idea of a very simple, open API, and the use of various modules which users may install and configure through the preferences panels. These modules would receive the webpage before it is fully parsed, and transform it as they are programmed, passing the transformed webpage either to the next module (they may be chained), or to the rendering/parsing engine. Naturally, users may want to run more than one module at a time, perhaps one that acts as a HTML filter to remove hostile tags (like BLINK and EMBED), and another as a simple lingual translation engine. Similarly, users may wish for modules to be applied to only some webpages, perhaps those in a foreign language or with a hostile PICS rating, and not other. "

http://www.mozilla.org/blue-sky/extension/199805/p reprocess.html

Mozilla team seems reluctant to implement this, do they fear something from sites hosting advertizing ?
I can already imagine my favorite pages customized on the fly by Mozilla with my preferences, or even colaborative preferences.
( cnn, zdnet, ... with no more ads, popup, useless side columns or top rows. Oops: unsubscribed user has the ads gone on slashdot! )

> They have ignored multiple requests to fix the Technet Knowledge Base
> so that it doesn't purposely screw up with Mozilla, so what else is new?

Wrong, that bug was fixed last year. You haven't visited Technet in quite a while, have you?

www.mozilla.org

It'd be nice if Phoenix and Mozilla would acquire that ability. For some reason the developers' stated position is that it won't happen anytime soon, but one can always vote for the bug anyway.

I agree. It truly is a great feature, and it will be very interesting to see if Apple will implent it in Safari. Tabbed browsing is actually one of the reasons why I prefer Chimera over Safari. On other hand Safari has the snap back button...

One of the goals of Perl 6 is to make non-trivial projects possible. That's good. The way it's being done is bad. Perl was once a lightweight, extremely flexible language. Now it's become a huge ugly monster. People wanted OO, so a nasty hack was bolted on top to allow some semblance of it. Now this nasty hack is being expanded. Sure, the code's different, but the basic form is the same. Kludge upon kludge upon kludge; I'd much rather have a nice, clean, pure language (and not one with loads of irritating whitespace thank you very much).

The same goes for the syntax. All the switching between $, @ and % is really irritating (ask a newbie how to get at the length of the keys array of a hash inside a hash, for example), and the changes proposed for 6 are just making this worse -- it seems that Larry, in his infinite wisdom, wants to prefix every data type with a different hard-to-type character. Perl was only designed for the three data types, and adding more is a mess.

Perl 6 is a complete rewrite, but it keeps all the mess which has accumulated over the previous versions. This is not good. Sure, my const int $var = 27; may look neat (in the same way that, say, Pascal does), but $var isn't entirely constant, or entirely an integer, it's just a hack which makes it sort of behave like one. The whole thing is an exercise in pseudo-computer science masturbation with little real purpose except to please the managers who dislike the one thing that makes Perl special.

On a similar note is regexes. I'm an avid fan of regular expressions simply because a nondeterministic finite automata is far more flexible than linear code. However, Larry must have been smoking that cheap $2 crack when he wrote this . Does he want Perl 6 to be flex or something?

I won't be going on to use 6. It's a nice idea, but it's completely unnecessary. It won't make large projects any easier to manage (the language is still, at heart, an almighty hack -- an impressive one, but still a hack). It won't make OO any cleaner. It won't make development any faster. To put it bluntly, Perl scripts will still look less beautiful than our friend Mr Goatse. I'd prefer to use a language which has always been pure synthesis of science and engineering, not some half-baked imposter.

Perl 6 will be nice, but I'm guessing it will be the end of Perl. It can't do what it wants to do whilst still being based upon a nasty mess. There are now other options, which provide all of Perl's power and none of the mess. Sorry, but BSD^W Perl is dying. Larry is buggering it up the ass without lubricants, just like Shoeboy is doing to Larry's daughter.

Unfortunately it uses the silly Cocoa-style delay before allowing you to drag text. ( When will Apple finally fix text dragging in Cocoa?!)

No!

This delay is exactly the sort of little things that make the Mac experience so much smoother -- provided of course it's adhered to consistently, which it always has been. This thing is thought out.

How often is your text selection right the first time, compared to other times when you need to tweak it a little bit before dragging? The subtle delay is there to give you that chance.

I can't count the times I've struggled with non-conformant interfaces which make you click 3 times to undo and correct the selection.

Of course you may. Very Interesting... Gives IE a lot of Mozilla features that IE alone didn't have.

Just uses the renderer, like Galeon and Phoenix do with the Gecko renderer of Mozilla.

But since I'm now running Mozilla, It should be much better than Mozilla for me to switch back (and it would need to run on Linux too). But it sure does look like a good secondary browser. for, for example mazdausa.com that responds "browser not supported" even though it would probably work just fine if the server thought it was one of the 'supported' ones (I had a 'user-agent'-switch once in Mozilla for that, but lost it after a apt-get dist-upgrade...).

Can I turn off HTML email in Outlook?

Um, uh... No! Yeah, there's no way to turn off HTML mail in Outlook. Yeah. Outlook has no provisions for safe email reading.

To be completely safe, you should... Uh... delete Outlook entirely. Mmm, yeah, delete it. Outlook gone. Perfectly safe. Yeah, that's it...

Then you can safely install a safe email program, like... Er... Mozilla! Yeah! Or Evolution! Yeah, Evolution. I use it. And so does my wife... Morgan Fairchild...

Schwab

• Jython is a Python scripting engine for Java. There, now you can use Python within the JVM! <sarcasm>Get the worst of both worlds!</sarcasm\>
• Rhino is a Javascript engine for Java.
• Jacl is a TCL engine for Java.
• Bean Sripting Framework is a generic wrapper for including scripting languages within your application. It's from IBM, and is intended to abstract away the implementation of the scripting language. It supports Jython, Jacl, and Rhino now. It seems like I remember IBM releasing something for REXX as well.

Performance isn't great, but reports have indicated that Jython is about 75% of the performance (near the end of the article...search for the word "performance") of CPython. It's slower than Java code of the same type. But, hey, if you wanted speed you wouldn't be using interpreted code (or byte-code interpreted code, for that matter), right?

Prior to signing up for the Missouri "Do Not Call" list about a year ago, we would get 1-2 telemarketing calls each evening, usually during dinner. Now we get none.

I'm not sure if a "Do-Not-Email" list would be as effective, but if they were, I'd be the first person to sign up. I'm now getting close to 75 spam emails each day. Fortunately for tools like Spamassassin and the new Mozilla email client with built in junk email filtering, at least I don't have to look at them!

You should see the number of items in Bugzilla related to microsoft.com. For a long time, if you went to the MSKB, you got a bad stylesheet and items would look messed up. Finally MS went through and updated the logic so that IE and Mozilla got the same stylesheet. Tech Evangelism Bug (159494)

Don't worry, you will have a Windoze and IE service pack delivered to your front door shortly with 'Urgent, Fixes for Q***** and Q******'.

At least I'm using Phoenix

That oughta get the zealots cheering.

That oughta get the zealots cheering.

open("file://localhost/images/file.gif?\">(scri pt here). . .

"Update: 02/03 19:56 GMT by T: Apparently not everyone's browser can read http://freedesktop.com, so the initial link up there now sports a "www" as well."

Appreciate that. I'm stuck with this low market-share browser that couldn't handle the URL. Appreciate the bone.

You have the Mozilla SVG page, but it has not been updated in a while. I heard they had some licensing problems....?

Then, there's a message at from Sue Sims who I think works at Opera, she says it is scheduled for the next version. This was in May, and that would imply version 7, I think, but it doesn't seem to be in there.

Mozilla has an active SVG project. The renderer is not yet included in the main build, mostly for licensing reasons. But you can build it in yourself and there is someone that maintains a Windows build. See the link for more info.

Mozilla has a native SVG project that's been around for awhile.

I've always thought this would be the coolest thing ever: native SVG in a browser. I've thought of all sorts of great applications of this idea--I do mostly statistical analysis and to be able to put all the output, graphics and everything, into one file in a open, standard format that's read by a browser sounds wonderful.

The problem as I understand it is that the SVG library Mozilla currently uses has a license that's incompatible with the Mozilla license. Mozilla native SVG is available in a separate download and has some functionality, but not anywhere near all of it. I've always thought it seemed a bit strange that someone couldn't find a Mozilla-capable SVG library, or that it would be that difficult to build one (I would help, but I just don't have anywhere near the expertise necessary).

So, this stuff about Mozilla native SVG may seem offtopic, but it's really not, in a way: does anyone know if the library used for the SVG icons has any utility for Mozilla SVG or other open source browser-native SVG projects?

Actually IDNs have their IETF approved standard called "Internationalizing Domain Names In Applications" (IDNA). It calls for changes to individual applications to support IDNs. It is composed of three standards that are going to be published as RFCs and are currently in the queue of RFC editor.

The IDNA standard is currently used by many application developers. For example Mozilla guys are including IDNA in some parts of the Mozilla project

Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG) is an open-standard alternative to Flash.
it is a W3C recommendation.
there is a partially-implemented SVG native plugin for mozilla.
Adobe has a fully functional SVG plugin.

there is a Call for Participation at the SVG Open 2003 (in canada this july).

sites like homestarrunner.com could really boost SVG acceptance. if anybody out there is looking at homestarrunner.com as a model by which to base their plans for a similar site, please consider SVG!

> a number of very nice looking typefaces that exactly coincide with the ones Microsoft ships;
> as a result, their browser renders pages "best viewed in Internet Explorer," as the incompaibility
> is euphemistically called, exactly as if in Internet Explorer.

Erm, fonts != web rendering technology. If it's broke in Gecko it's broke in Gecko, and having the right fonts won't make any difference. Or does he mean, "best viewed in Windows"?

What's euphemistic about it? And why does the author call it an "incompatibility" when he means a "recommendation"? Euphemism, n.: "an inoffensive expression that is substituted for one that is considered offensive".

As another user points out, the article offers so salient points regarding any actual new features or improvements, just a general mish-mash. Then to round off it sounds off on a whole load of random mismatched arguements about how free software's wonderful. We've heard it all a thousand times before.

I get so annoyed by people writing pretentious twaddle using words they don't understand because they think it looks impressive, while simultaneously making grammatical, spelling and typographical errors all over the shop. You ain't fooling no one...

Next please.