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Opera 7.0 Security Holes ... Fixed

An anonymous reader writes "GreyMagic has issued five new security advisories for the recently-released Opera 7.0. They affect the security model, the javascript console, images, the history and the error log (allowing access to the history). A new version will be released within 24 hours to fix the holes, according to an article at The Register." Update: 02/05 02:01 GMT by T : An anonymous reader writes "Opera Software have just released Opera 7.01 for Windows. This version fixes the recently discovered security holes less than 24 hours after they were discovered - a very impressive turnaround! The release is currently only available on Opera's FTP site. It can be downloaded with Java (12.9Mb) or without (3.3Mb)."

291 comments

  1. Wow by ArchieBunker · · Score: 5, Funny

    Thank god I'm using IE!

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but they did rewrite the browser with the release of seven. If you are that worried about it being exploited I would recomment waiting for X.1 releases before installing any new software...

    2. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Windows 3.1!

    3. Re:Wow by DesiDudette · · Score: 1

      I am glad I am still using IE. Frankly.. I have never felt the need to switch to any other browser since IE 5.0 was released. I used Opera 4.0 briefly and was amazed by its speed, but since IE 5.0 + all the fast computers we all have now a days, Opera has lost its relevance to me. Just my 2c

    4. Re:Wow by kevcol · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you are under the impression that the only benefit to using Opera is speed, you are mistaken.

      Tabbed browsing (with the option for changing your preference to new windows for each web page), superior mouse context menues, ability to change user-agent, great keyboard navigation, ability to turn off all pop-ups or let the ones you select yourself by (worth it alone for that feature), ability to turn off seizure inducing animatied GIFs, page zoom feature, exellent standards compliance, and on and on and on....

      Yes, many of these features are available in Mozilla based iterations, but I haven't yet found one that had them as well done as I have found in Opera, or that doesn't hog so goddamned much memory. And if you are looking for a modicum of these features in IE, forget it.

    5. Re:Wow by mcbridematt · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, you will have a Windoze and IE service pack delivered to your front door shortly with 'Urgent, Fixes for Q***** and Q******'.

      At least I'm using Phoenix

    6. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention Opera wrote the http code from *scratch*. It makes IE and Netscrape look like reptilian poop.

  2. What isnt affected? by stratjakt · · Score: 2, Funny

    Seems like that list would be shorter.

    --
    I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    1. Re:What isnt affected? by essreenim · · Score: 1

      Apparently, I don't seem to be! Ran proof of concept tests and only previous and next page were vulnerable, none of the other attacks were successful and I DID try.. Running cocktail of 98SE, J2EE App server. Full OPERA with javascrip.. Frankly, next and previos web page bugs have always been around (using Perl of course)- I dont even consider it a vulnerbilty - its info that should be hacked -its just harmless fun. But I will still upgrade to 7.1 out of respect and politeness!

  3. So let me get this straight. . . by Rojo^ · · Score: 0, Redundant

    There is no law that says web browsers have to have lots of security flaws that can remain published for several weeks before patches are issued on an obscure web page? Pshh, next thing I'll see will say my MS servers are poorly secured.

    (someone had to be the first to say it. . .)

    --
    <:
  4. Quick Turnaround by Edball · · Score: 1

    It's nice to see that there's a speedy 24 hour turnaround on the fixes... even so I think I'll stick to my tried and true v6.03 :)

    1. Re:Quick Turnaround by sean23007 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Opera didn't announce the exploits, idiot. They requested that the people who discovered them wait to announce them for TWO DAYS so that a fix could be released before the exploits became publicly known. The exploit discoverers did not comply. Opera did everything right, and it is impressive that they are working so fast and so hard to fix the problems.

      --

      Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
    2. Re:Quick Turnaround by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      Overnight fixes tell me they were poorly tested and have a high probability of doing more harm than good.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    3. Re:Quick Turnaround by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, are you and they saying that the problems are found and fixed in 24 hours. Pretty amazing all these area's problems were found at the same time. Fortunate to say the least.

      Security Model Flaw: Found 14 Nov 2002 //certain missed the 24 hour window

      Still, the turnaround time on the others is amazing... but I still question their "discovery date".

      For instance:
      The javascript console problem sounds similar to:
      http://www.securitybugware.org/NT/5346.html
      which is dated well before the "discovery date".

    4. Re:Quick Turnaround by sean23007 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They weren't overnight. They've been working on them since Friday and wanted the announcement to come on Thursday so that they could properly test the fixes.

      --

      Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
    5. Re:Quick Turnaround by skubalon · · Score: 1

      As an avid Opera fan I am definitely impressed with the turnaround.

      I have been using Opera as my primary browser for some time (even on my Windows machines) and I am very impressed with Opera 7 itself. It is quite an upgrade from Opera 6 - especially in DHTML rendering.

      While I was discouraged to see the surprising list of flaws, I was encouraged at thier commitment to fix them.

    6. Re:Quick Turnaround by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who's the idiot? The discoverers DID comply, they notified Opera last Friday and published the exploits only yesterday.

    7. Re:Quick Turnaround by sean23007 · · Score: 1

      What, wait 4 days? Wow! They did NOT comply, considering the fact that Opera requested that they wait until Thursday, so that the fixes could be properly tested. Opera's team was working hard all week, and Grey Magic didn't even have the decency to wait a week. A week, mind you, for a small team. That is much better than any other company can say.

      --

      Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
    8. Re:Quick Turnaround by wallsg · · Score: 1

      Funny that no one complains when Microsoft asks for a delay and doesn't get it.

    9. Re:Quick Turnaround by Black+Copter+Control · · Score: 1
      It's when MS doesn't get a 3 month delay that I don't bother to complain.

      Microsoft refuses to acknowledge the seriousness of a bug for months, and then complains when someone releases a format-your-disk exploit for bugs that they swore their face blue weren't serious (even after the exploit was released).

      --
      OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
    10. Re:Quick Turnaround by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Three months?

      On February 27 last year, GreyMagic published full details (including source for a working exploit) of a vulnerability in IE that was -- according to GM's own report -- discovered only two days before.

      I guess they were cheered by script kiddies and MS haters all around the world.

      Several security sites demonstrated their tabloid mentality, and simply linked to it without asking themselves any questions about giving MS time to come up with a fix.

      I tried to find out if it was discussed on /. back then, but two different attempts to search for it both crashed the search script.

    11. Re:Quick Turnaround by Black+Copter+Control · · Score: 1
      People pre-emptively release exploits for both OS and MS code. I'm not about to defend either.

      I will, however, happily attack MSs unwillingness to act on known exploits until they're hit over the head with two-by-four sized proofs of the severity of the exploit.

      If the case you're mentioning is the one that I'm thinking of, I believe that GreyMagic got sick of quitely passing on yet another exploit to MS, and being just as quietly told to go get stuffed.

      MS has gotten slightly better at security, but I'm still seeing clear indications that they consider it to be more of a PR issue than a technical one.

      --
      OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
  5. Opera 7.0 by larry2k · · Score: 1, Insightful

    There is no Opera 7 for Mac OS X. is it becuase the safari browser? See This article (slashdot.org)

    --

    The package said "Windows XP or better. Pentium Class Processor or better"... So I got a Mac with OS X

    1. Re:Opera 7.0 by bunratty · · Score: 1

      Opera always develops its software for Windows first, then ports it to other platforms. That's why Opera 7 is available only on Windows right now.

      --
      What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
  6. Say it ain't so!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The aprt I like is where the "experts" say that Opera is still better than IE from a security stand point. Just give it time.....

  7. That was quick by midgley · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Opera 7 is nice but I am disinclined to put any new version of a browser on a critical computer. Other cautious types won't have been inconveienced greatly either.

    I like mouse gestures, but I don't know what to make of the new spatial navigation feature. yet.
    Last time there was a serious browser security problem KDE got Konqueror fixed by evening,Opera had fixes on one platform after a day and another platform after a couple of days, and Mozilla was about a sgood.

    Many of my colleagues were still using the only major browser that took a week before anyone admitted they owned a problem, when the fix eventually came out.

    1. Re:That was quick by Rojo^ · · Score: 1, Informative
      Before I read this article, I assumed security flaws in web browsers involved activex, javascript, or basically *script that wasn't a problem in the days when HTML only rendered text and images. The image bug:
      open("file://localhost/images/file.gif?\">(scri pt here). . .
      really got me concerned though. If you're interested to know, Phoenix wasn't affected by this bug, and the other *script bug vulnerable features can be easily disabled on a critical computer.
      --
      <:
    2. Re:That was quick by jsse · · Score: 1

      Opera 7 is nice but I am disinclined to put any new version of a browser on a critical computer.

      Not want to pull your leg but you really shouldn't put any browser on a critical computer. :)

    3. Re:That was quick by a8f11t18 · · Score: 1

      Come on, spatial navigation is heaven for any keyboarder who wants to save even some MORE time!!

      Personally I'm not that much of a keyboarder.. but.. just a while ago, I had food in both my hands, and wanted to continue browsing the web.. you know what I did? I actually managed to navigate links with the spatial navigation system by using my feet!! seriously!! for anyone wondering, i sit on the floor.
      Oh yeah.. I know that's not what the system's designed for, but.. if you can use it with your feet, surely it must be good!!

    4. Re:That was quick by zuralin · · Score: 1

      since when is a desktop computer critical? (you are talking about running a browser on it so i assume its a desktop computer) And of course someone is gonna say "why are you running windows on a critical computer".

    5. Re:That was quick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They must have been "planned" errors to have been fixed so quickly. After all, it takes Microsoft weeks/months/? to fix browser bugs. Besides there's not that much code in Opera, so how can there be much to fix :) Of'course maybe that's why it runs so fast too. Stick with IE--after all, one has to fill up those 40+ gigabyte drives with something. Maybe put Outlook on too so viruses will have a chance to propagate :)

    6. Re:That was quick by essreenim · · Score: 1

      See: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=52837&threshol d=1&commentsort=0&tid=172&mode=thread&pid=5228315# 5228362 Unrelated but.. Some of u have been talking about sticking with O6 ver. Don't. Use 7 and report all bugs. I find that when I turn off mouse gestures, clicking is sticky sometimes and KB support is not perfect either but these will improve. Opera 7.02?? :)

    7. Re:That was quick by Hellkitten · · Score: 1

      I assumed security flaws in web browsers involved activex, javascript, or basically *script that wasn't a problem in the days when HTML only rendered text and images. The image bug:

      open("file://localhost/images/file.gif?\">(scri pt here). . .

      That's javascript

      If you're interested to know, Phoenix [mozilla.org] wasn't affected by this bug

      And why would you think it did? Why on earth would phoenix be affected by opera bugs? Maybe if they had been based on some common codebase that would have been relevant information.

      --
      - We are the slashdot. Resistance is futile. Prepare to be moderated -
    8. Re:That was quick by Black+Copter+Control · · Score: 1
      Not want to pull your leg but you really shouldn't put any browser on a critical computer. :)

      That means that you really shouldn't put Windows on a critical computer.
      ...
      Oh, damn.. I'm gonna get moderated redundant, aren't I?

      --
      OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
  8. About time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I think this is long overdue. The last time I checked out opera, several people were murdered (including one by a barber - terrorists with nail clippers indeed!). On a previous excursion there was an actual war, culminating in the death of a cigarette girl. This kind of thing just has to stop, so the prospect of increased security is a welcome one. In the past the only evidence of surveillance has been a few people in fancy dress with cheap, tiny binoculars. That's just a recipe for anarchy.

    Some ear protection would be nice too.

    1. Re:About time by Woodrose · · Score: 1

      Ok, Mr. Ray Berry, why are you posting anonymously and cowardly?

      --

      Thou hast damnable iteration, and art indeed able to corrupt a saint - Henry IV, Act I scene II

  9. Who in their mind... by josh+crawley · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Would BUY a web browser? These things are commodity now in the terms of operating systems. We have IE and Mozilla for Windows, KHTML and Mozilla for Linux, and IE and Mozilla and KHTML for Mac.

    We have Mouse gestures for Moz by plugin, Tabbed bowsing for Moz and Konq, and any other feature deemed ok can easily be added in to Mozilla (either by source adds or plugins).

    Can somebody answer me why someone would buy a web bowser these days?

    1. Re:Who in their mind... by Tyler+Eaves · · Score: 3, Informative

      You've obviously never used Opera. Besides, you don't HAVE to buy it. If you can put up with a small, non-flashing banner ad, it's totally free as in beer.

      --
      TODO: Something witty here...
    2. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Can somebody answer me why someone would buy a web bowser these days?"

      I paid for Opera, and I have 0 regret about that. Opera has, in my opinion, the best user experience. (UI, etc...) Did I have to buy it? No. They have an ad-supported version for free. However, I would like to encourage them to continue down their road towards maintaining the best UI.

      IE 6 is not significantly different from IE5. Though they're free, they do not provide the same evolution that Opera 7 has in relation to Opera 6. Unfortunately, when you aren't making money on your browser, what's your incentive to compete?

      BTW, as long as you're using the Ad-supported version of a browser, you are, in a sense, paying for it. Might as well clear that up now.

    3. Re:Who in their mind... by josh+crawley · · Score: 1

      ---You've obviously never used Opera.

      Dont assume. You make an ass out of you and me.

      ---Besides, you don't HAVE to buy it. If you can put up with a small, non-flashing banner ad, it's totally free as in beer.

      That aint free. That's ADWARE. Crap I dont want on windows OR Linux.

      Now how about some decent features that opera has that all others dont that make opera worth something like 20$ or 30$ (whatever it is now).

    4. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonymous+DWord · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Because mouse gestures for Mozilla suck, and the tabs in Opera are far superior. Besides, it's faster. And smaller. And it doesn't have as many holes, this recent news notwithstanding. Don't buy it if you don't want to. Nobody's forcing you.

      --
      "If he thinks he can hide and run from the United States and our allies, he's sorely mistaken." Bush on bin Laden
    5. Re:Who in their mind... by djupedal · · Score: 1

      Anyone buying a wintel box that comes with MS product pre-loaded, that's who. Dont' get me going about the definition of 'right mind' :)

    6. Re:Who in their mind... by Tyler+Eaves · · Score: 2, Funny

      Erm, last time I checked, 'Free as in Beer' means that it doesn't require monetary payment.

      --
      TODO: Something witty here...
    7. Re:Who in their mind... by Lord+Ender · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Who in their mind Would BUY a web browser?"

      Well, the answer to your question is very simple. Opera, in my opinion, is the best browser out there--better than any free browsers. They only way I can use opera (without bothering with adverts) is to pay for it. Slashdot can be had for free, but some people pay for it. Same thing.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    8. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "That aint free. That's ADWARE. Crap I dont want on windows OR Linux."

      Um. Why not?

      The ads in Opera are not:

      - Popups
      - Spyware
      - Intrusive

      A small area of the interface has a banner. That's it. It doesn't do anything unless you click on it, and sometimes you even get cartoons up there!

      I'd understand your attitude if the ads were like what Kazaa does, but that's not even close to the case here. It's no more than going to a site with a banner at the top. Only, in this case, the banner is up and out of the way and not part of the page itself.

      My only nitpick about it is I wouldn't mind using that space to have more room for shortcuts etc. That'd be the big benefit to paying for it, really. The ads just aren't of much concern.

    9. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those with pay per content usage pay, adware = evil as it uses theyre monthly quotas. Adware = evil for metered broadband. Which is comming to the rest of you, dont worry :D

    10. Re:Who in their mind... by BluedemonX · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I think we should have three definitions, then.

      Free as in beer = price of $0.00, no strings attached, copyright owned by original owner.

      Free as in speech = price of $0.00, no strings attached, public domain.

      "Free" = exactly what you'd expect. "Free" with $500 purchase, "Free" with only $9.99 "shipping and handling", "Free" with early termination fee, etc.

      --

      --- Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix
    11. Re:Who in their mind... by sean23007 · · Score: 1

      It really isn't faster that Mozilla anymore. After 1.0, Gecko has been faster than Opera (I used to use both, until Mozilla was faster).

      --

      Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
    12. Re:Who in their mind... by singularity · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I paid for one about one year ago today. I did not even have to pay for it.

      iCab, for the Mac, is still in Preview release form. Eventually they hope to start charging for the final release. When they opened up an optional payment system, I grabbed my credit card the first hour I heard about it.

      Why? I like iCab. It does what I want it to. It has feature integration unlike any other browser I have seen. It was one of the first to block pop-ups. Its built-in ad filtering is still next to none, and it had that years ago. The level of control over the browser is simply amazing in a fairly easy to use preferences dialog box (instead of entering information into a text window a la Mozilla and others).

      As a point of comparison, I have used Mozilla, IE, K-Meleon, Chimera, Safari, and others.

      iCab has its drawbacks, for certain (CSS rendering), but it is good enough to warrant me giving money for its continued development.

      I suppose I am just willing to pay for quality.

      --
      - (c) 2018 Hank Zimmerman
    13. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can be a nitpicking little bitch, too. The dollar sign goes in front of the number, fuckhead.

    14. Re:Who in their mind... by joebp · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Would BUY a web browser?
      The same people who go around buying other software.

      They're crazy I tells ya!
    15. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have yet to see a browser that can compete with Opera in terms of speed. Yes, Phoenix is nice, but Opera has everything beat clear across the board.

    16. Re:Who in their mind... by Gortbusters.org · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I might not buy a web browser, but I would buy the creating apps with Mozilla book from O'Reilly!

      --
      --------
      Free your mind.
    17. Re:Who in their mind... by a8f11t18 · · Score: 1

      "Can somebody answer me why someone would buy a web bowser these days?"

      You tell me something sport.. if I've thoroughly checked out the competition, mainly IE and mozilla/pheonix, why would I want to purchase something like opera.. ? Clearly there must be something in it that makes me do it, eh.. There are many
      things that can make a browser good or bad for someone. Beside some functionality that the other browsers cannot provide me, and the speed and customizability, it just works^TM for me, while the other browsers feel suboptimal in comparison.

      ps: even speed alone would be major selling point of opera, as it zips past both mozilla/pheonix and IE.

    18. Re:Who in their mind... by Tyler+Eaves · · Score: 1

      Do you really think a 20k image every hour or so is such a big deal? That's be the net effect of, oh say loading the slashdot frontpage 3 or 4 times a MONTH.

      --
      TODO: Something witty here...
    19. Re:Who in their mind... by UpnAtom · · Score: 1

      Think of IE as crippleware.
      Haven't tried Moz.

      Dave.

    20. Re:Who in their mind... by SirDaShadow · · Score: 2, Funny

      Did you take into consideration the duplicate posts ;-)

    21. Re:Who in their mind... by Sheriff+Fatman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm a web developer running Win2K on all my dev machines. I run Opera, IE, Netscape and Phoenix on a daily basis. I paid for Opera 6. I paid for Opera 7 while it was still in beta. I paid for them because I believe any company who can fit something as comprehensive as Opera 7 into a 3Mb download deserve a little recognition, and at least now if it all goes wrong and Opera disappears into obscurity, I won't feel like it was my fault. :)

      Technically, it has it's problems - although many of them aren't Opera's fault. Too many existing sites are developed for IE/Netscape instead of being built around standards. I fire up IE for non-Opera compatible sites at least a couple of times a day - online banking being the main culprit. And I still can't get my head around the Opera 7 mail client. Outlook Express ain't perfect, but at least I can find my mail...

      Thing is, I *like* Opera. Opera's tabbed browsing is the best I've ever seen. Opera handles 99% of existing websites and about 1% of known security exploits. I like the interface, I like the philosophy behind it, I like the fact that it supports alpha-channel PNGs even though there's not a website on earth that uses them properly 'cos IE still won't support them. I like the fact that you can zoom a page visually as opposed to just enlarging the font size - really useful if you're running 1600x1200 on a 17" monitor and someone's hardcoded their text to be 8px high. And - to be perfectly frank - I just like the fact that *someone* is taking W3C standards seriously, and I think that's worth $39. In terms of hours-usage-per-dollar, Opera represents much better value for money than Quake III or Deus Ex, and I didn't feel like either of those ripped me off... :)

      --
      -- Open Source: It's mad, but you don't have to work here to help.
    22. Re:Who in their mind... by Purificator · · Score: 1

      my experience has been opposite: mozilla has gotten slower and slower for me, while opera 5.x->6.x got faster. then again, i'm not using linux or windows, which i'm sure get the most attention for mozilla. it's still nice to have the choice.

      i'm with the parent on paying for software. it's a way of voting. by paying them i say "yes this is good. please make more." it's also why i pay for music.

      --
      "Mister Potato-head --MISTER POTATO-HEAD! Backdoors are not secrets!" (War Games, 1983)
    23. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks to people like you we get analised.

      Why dont you just go back in time and give youre parents some parental guidance leaflets.

    24. Re:Who in their mind... by Blue+Stone · · Score: 1

      I'm currently trying out Opera, and I have to say I've found it more buggy than IE6.
      I love the mouse gestures, but the cookie handling is rubbish, and the page size is buggy; if I load a long /. article, I'm forced to view it at 100% size or lower, as above that, the screen goes all screwy.
      And the bookmark folders: if you're trying to move a folder up above another in a line of several folders, it will only let you put the folder INSIDE the above folder. That's a bit messed up.
      As it stands, I'm not paying £25 for something this poorly implemented.

      But I love the mouse gestures. :)

      --
      Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
    25. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Free as in speech = price of $0.00, no strings attached, public domain.

      Wrongo.. Price is whatever seller charges you for distribution. However taken from FSF webpage, buyer has these rights:

      - The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0).
      - The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your needs (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
      - The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).
      - The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits. (freedom 3). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.

      Not quite the same as public domain. And there can be strings attached depending on the license (e.g. GPL).

    26. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Woot! Support Opera Win Free today!!!

    27. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously you haven't used Opera 7 (which is Windows only at the moment). It simply blows Mozilla and IE out of the water. Seriously, try it. However, Linux is a different case, Opera 6.11 for Linux isn't all that great.

    28. Re:Who in their mind... by damiam · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Free as in speech = price of $0.00, no strings attached, public domain

      I can't think of a single pice of software that meets those conditions. Not Linux, XFree86, KDE, GNOME, BSD, Apache, or even Hurd. Perhaps you should look up the true meaning of "public domain" (and possibly read the GPL).

      --
      It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
    29. Re:Who in their mind... by sean23007 · · Score: 1

      On the Mac, in my experience, Mozilla has gotten slower as time has passed. And it seemed that that was true for a while on Windows as well, but now I have returned, and 1.3a just burns.

      I don't have anything againt paying for software, but I very much prefer to get it for free. Yea, Mozilla!

      --

      Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
    30. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good flame, but the placement is poor. :/

    31. Re:Who in their mind... by essreenim · · Score: 1

      You should contribute $$ to anything you support even if its small,don't worry (you DO in fact contribute just by use) opera appeals to the aesthetic person. Maybe it's because its makers are Norwegian (c0lDDD) that it has the nice ice berg buttons. Its dead fast - fastest ive seen, excellent pop interface for mail... All these outweigh the bugs and blemishes in my book, will get 7.1 today :)

    32. Re:Who in their mind... by Some+Dumbass... · · Score: 4, Funny

      Um. Why not?

      The ads in Opera are not:

      - Popups
      - Spyware
      - Intrusive


      And the way the Web is nowadays, they just blend into the background!

    33. Re:Who in their mind... by tempest303 · · Score: 2, Funny
      You've obviously never used Opera

      Well, I have, and I'm plenty happy with Gecko-based browsers, thanks.

      Opera's UI is like a trip into some magical fairy land, where every little UI-related feature request that any user ever made has been granted! The result?

      FUCKING BEDLAM.

      Opera is practically unusable, thanks to its fantastically confusing and inconsistant UI. This is a shame, since its actual HTML engine is no slouch. It's no Gecko when it comes to standards compliance, but it's pretty good in 7.0. A shame that they can't make a Galeon/K-meleon simple interface to the damn thing. Opera-lite, anyone? I might actually be interested in such a thing, especially for lower end machines.
    34. Re:Who in their mind... by teslatug · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Unfortunately, when you aren't making money on your browser, what's your incentive to compete?
      Which browser are you talking about here? It couldn't be IE because Microsoft is betting the company (their words) on .NET, and I think IE will be just a tad instrumental in the success of .NET. Likewise, I don't think anyone could doubt the incentive of Mozilla developers to make thir product better (just look at the results). Same thing for Konqueror. Apple is on the same boat as Microsoft in a way. They want integrated apps that do no rely on the mercy of Microsoft so that they can sell their hardware. Hence, they are developping their own browser based on KHTML. As far as I see all the major browsers are being competitive and providing the features deemed important to their goals (i.e. Microsoft doesn't gain anything by blocking popups in IE -- on the contrary it wants companies to use and sanction IE when they see that they can shove their crap on us more easily). [end of rant]
    35. Re:Who in their mind... by Selfbain · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Unusable if you have the IQ of a pop-tart maybe. It seems fairly straight-forward to me, if you don't want to use the extra features just ignore them.

      --
      Well, it has never been successfully tested.
    36. Re:Who in their mind... by Ilgaz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      People, who love it , use it. Advertising supported or buying it actually.

      Whats your fucking deal with a browser you hate that much and prefer AOL/Gecko based browsers?

      I mean, we use it. They listen to their CUSTOMERS (customers also include people didn't crack the browser, viewing ads), add the features to browser.

      Go back to your mozilla compiling or something, geez, 6 million downloaders of Opera 7 are happy or they are sending feedbacks with a clue to Opera so browser is improving.

      I never remember myself running and posting crap about Netscape 7 which in my eyes, a failed project.

      Opera 7 also showed that if you start from strach, the program doesn't have to get bigger or suck. You get what I mean? ;-)

    37. Re:Who in their mind... by Rude-Boy · · Score: 1

      next time someone says "don't assume, you make an ass out of you and me", i'm gonna shove a toothpick in his ear.

    38. Re:Who in their mind... by Ponty · · Score: 1

      Yea++ Safari!

      I have never seen anything uglier than the way Gecko browsers pesent text, graphics, and the spacing of same. Compared to OmniWeb (the best looking browser) and Safari (great looking and fast as hell), Geck based browsers are like an ugly stepchild.

    39. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonymous+DWord · · Score: 1

      However, Linux is a different case, Opera 6.11 for Linux isn't all that great.

      I agree with that one. It seems really crash-happy in dual-head, so there's something going on. Some of the gestures are kind of fiddly too - like not always working in the transfers window, stuff like that.

      --
      "If he thinks he can hide and run from the United States and our allies, he's sorely mistaken." Bush on bin Laden
    40. Re:Who in their mind... by Rude-Boy · · Score: 1

      "Opera is practically unusable, thanks to its fantastically confusing and inconsistant UI."

      Are you high or something? Fuck, just turn off the features you don't want to use, its not that hard.

      bottom line: its a small, fast, customizable browser with lots of great features.

      moron.

    41. Re:Who in their mind... by tempest303 · · Score: 1

      Am I high? Listen to your responses!

      "Just turn off the features you don't want to use, it's not that hard"

      If I had to do that for every app, it'd take me HOURS to get my shit working right. Why should I have to do that at all? Just pick a good default for fuck's sake, and stick with it.

      Moron.

    42. Re:Who in their mind... by Eris13 · · Score: 0

      Yep and the upgrade to Opera 7 fixed a good 95% of the compatibility issues Opera 6 had with IE designed sites (particularly those trying to use java). It's the only internet related software I'de consider paying for at this time.

    43. Re:Who in their mind... by tempest303 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Just because I said the UI is a steaming fucking pile doesn't mean I said you shouldn't use it.

      Secondly, learn to take some criticism. I don't use the browser I use because I hate Opera (what a bizarre position to take...), I use it because I think it's better than anything else for my needs. I also happen to think that it's better than Opera for most other peoples' needs, but I'm certainly not shoving it down anyone's throat - these are just my opionions.

      Finally, don't quote numbers to me. 6 million downloads (let's not confuse the number of downloads with the number of people who actually keep and use the app, thanks.) for a commercial product is not bad, but it's a tiny percentage of web users. According to Browser News, Gecko based browsers are way ahead of this.

    44. Re:Who in their mind... by Rude-Boy · · Score: 1

      guess what?
      i just downloaded opera 7.01 (to replace 6.04)
      it took me all of FIVE MINUTES to get my settings the way i like them.

      then it saves them FOREVER!

      HURRAH!!!

    45. Re:Who in their mind... by AlternateSyndicate · · Score: 1
      When I think of Opera a phrase that does not come to my mind is "practically unusable". Neither does the phrase "fantastically confusing" come to mind.

      Opera is the fastest and most user friendly web browser in my experience. I use Phoenix at this time, but I often miss Opera's beautiful mouse gestures, which are implemented so poorly in Phoenix that they're just not usable.

      There is no perfect browser but Phoenix and Opera are the two closest. You're sacrificing good features using either one, however I think your criticism of Opera is misdirected. There are much bigger problems than the UI.

      Give Opera another try, if you can't figure out the UI, try asking the closest 6 year old for help.

    46. Re:Who in their mind... by sludg-o · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeay, no kidding. Besides, with mouse gestures, you can comfortably hit F11 and browse full-screen with absolutly no realestate used by anything other than the web page.

    47. Re:Who in their mind... by WzDD · · Score: 1

      Opera's renderer may or may not be faster than Gecko, but Opera's UI is most certainly faster than Mozilla's. For my home connection, which is cable-speed only in theory, my preferred browsing mode is to fire up a bunch of links to load in the background. This is far more speedily achieved under Opera than it is under Mozilla.

    48. Re:Who in their mind... by revxul · · Score: 1

      y'know, I have no clue how you see Opera's UI as unuseable but your idea for an Opera-Lite is good. I wouldn't mind seeing a bannerless, free(beer), stripped down Opera.

      --
      Truth, Just Us, And Hatred For All Mankind!
    49. Re:Who in their mind... by watzinaneihm · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Also you miss the part that if you turn full screen mode (use F11) you dont see ads at all. As long as you know the keyboard shortcuts, it is the way to browse. Remarkably good for reading books and long articles....

      --
      .ACMD setaloiv siht gnidaeR
    50. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which reminds me; haven't seen any ad so far in my (unregistered) version 7. Wonder what happened to them.

    51. Re:Who in their mind... by The+Cydonian · · Score: 1

      Just noticed, but interestingly enough, the additional features listed for Opera 7 mention only free email support and an OperaMail account for six months. No mention of an ad-free version.

    52. Re:Who in their mind... by Cintentions · · Score: 1

      I second that! I myself have used opera since version six came out, now any other browers that are out cannot meet the standards of it. only those web pages that does not support opera will require IE.
      But if they think about it, if all site were compatible with Opera then would opera take over IE as a standard Browers?
      also love the mouse gesture!!

    53. Re:Who in their mind... by hkmwbz · · Score: 1
      "Opera-lite, anyone? I might actually be interested in such a thing, especially for lower end machines."
      You can already use the full-features version on lower end machines. If your PC can run Windows, it can run Opera. And if the default skin is a bit heavy because you've got an old system, just change the skin from Standard to Windows. It is much lighter on resources.

      So Opera already works fine on lower end machines, despite all the features they have crammed into a 3 MB download.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    54. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonvmous+Coward · · Score: 1
      "Just noticed, but interestingly enough, the additional features [opera.com] listed for Opera 7 mention only free email support and an OperaMail account for six months. No mention of an ad-free version."

      Man,you had me worried there for a sec. You're right: They don't show anything about the ad-free version! I was gettting a little miffed because it states very clearly that 5.x and up (as of June of 02) would have a banner free version. No matter where I went, no mention of it. I went to their forums, I searched the site etc, no luck in any of those places!

      But I did finally find a press release:

      http://www.opera.com/pressreleases/en/2003/01/28/ and it states very clearly:


      The browser is available free of charge with a sponsored advertising banner in the top-right corner of the user interface. To remove the advertising banner users must register their version for USD 39. Various discounts apply. Until March 1, users can also enjoy 14 banner-free days from the day they download Opera.


      Like I said, you had me worried there. I'm shocked that Opera doesn't make that clearer, afterall the page you showed really should have pointed that out. Fortuantely, though, I was able to dig deep enough to find that info.

      Good catch, cheers man.

    55. Re:Who in their mind... by NexusTw1n · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Bear in mind, that $39 is the max you'll pay for one licence.

      It's $15 for an upgrade from Opera 6

      It's $20 if you don't have a copy, but can prove (via scanned jpg of student ID card) that you are a student.

      While it's great to use free as in free, software, when a product as good as Opera comes along, it's worth the price. Shareware games are great, but I think most of us have no qualms about spending $40-50 for Doom III

      Tabbed browsing, mouse gestures, zoom in and out, and best of all, save all tabbed pages, including the history for each tab, AND the position down the page, upon exit or even upon a crash.

      The ability to restart exactly where you left off is worth the price alone, just for the time it's saved me over the year I've used it.

      --
      It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. --Albert Einstein
    56. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Quick Preferences > Identify as (browser name) is a godsend. If it weren't for browser detection scripts that people put on their webpages; Opera would just fly into many of the sites where it gets stuck.

      My school's account management as well as my online banking "You must have Internet Explorer 4+ to view this website; does not work with Netscape". Change Opera's ID and presto... I don't need Internet Explorer. Ever. :D

    57. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This doesn't work with some sites though.

      My online banking for example:
      Natwest

    58. Re:Who in their mind... by egreB · · Score: 1

      Do you really think a 20k image every hour or so is such a big deal?
      Every hour? Heh, not the creators of Opera. Nothing is sacrisfied for speed, they say. To keep bandwith at its max at (alomst) all times, the ads are downloaded once a week in bulk. That's probably 150K or so every week. I can live with that (-8

      That said, I'm purchasing Opera. Been using it for some time now, and in comparison there are No Other Browsers(TM). I'm purchasing it as much for support as getting rid of the ads - good products deserves good money. At $20 for students (like me), it's quite bearable.

    59. Re:Who in their mind... by Hortensia+Patel · · Score: 1

      Opera 7's M2 mail client is nice, although it does take some getting used to. I was quite disoriented at first as well, but after using it for a short while I'm a convert.

      Fundamentally, M2 doesn't treat your email like a hierarchical filesystem, it treats it like a relational database. So there's one big repository, and any number of views (==queries) onto it; you don't have to decide whether that mail belongs in "MailFromBob", or "MailAboutFoo", or "MailINeedToDoSomethingWith". It can appear in all of them, and for the standard views (by contact, by label etc) it'll all happen automagically.

      Couple of minor gripes - import from Mozilla mail isn't perfect (empty trash and compact folders FIRST), and it gratuitously stops dead if you have SMTP username/password specified and your relay server doesn't need them, but overall it's very cute.

      If you're worried about your mail getting locked up in a nonstandard format - AFAICT the repository is stored in plaintext mbox format. Indices are binary, but what the hey.

    60. Re:Who in their mind... by ibbie · · Score: 1

      i have used it, and - being the control freak that i am - i just couldn't get past the banner ad. it is a really nice piece of work, and it does have a lot of intuitive features... but i can still easily "settle" for mozilla.

      --
      The wise follow a damned path, for to know is to be forsaken.
    61. Re:Who in their mind... by cicho · · Score: 1

      Not sure what you mean by "non-flashing". When Opera 4 first appeared as adware, I ditched it the first time it showed a banner with several "stop" signs, in red and white, each flashing at a different interval. (I don't remember what the banner was advertizing, nor do I wish to.)

      I just saw a very simliar banner in 7.0, several graphical elements flashing out of sync. If I had epilepsy, I might have sued[1] the thoughtless idiots; since I don't, I just went back to IE and Moz.

      [1] Hyperbole. I've never sued anyone and have no intention to. But those banners are absolutely abhorrent.

      --
      "Only the small secrets need to be protected. The big ones are kept secret by public incredulity." - Marshall McLuhan
    62. Re:Who in their mind... by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      Think of it like this. You can go to the soup kitchen for free, but some people still pay to eat in resteraunts. Opera is the resteraunt. IE is the soup kitchen.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    63. Re:Who in their mind... by KjetilK · · Score: 1
      I can't agree with any of those definitions.

      Free as in beer: price of 0. Strings may be attached. You get no rights.

      Free as in speech: Any price (usually 0), you can use, modify and redistribute the stuff, but there may be strings attached, such as that you are not allowed to take those above things away from anybody else.

      In either of the definitions above "free" is used in a context. Otherwise, "free" means "without relation".

      --
      Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
    64. Re:Who in their mind... by gosand · · Score: 1
      Technically, it has it's problems - although many of them aren't Opera's fault. Too many existing sites are developed for IE/Netscape instead of being built around standards. I fire up IE for non-Opera compatible sites at least a couple of times a day - online banking being the main culprit.

      I have found that about half of the sites that don't work well with Opera can be navigated by just changing the identity of the browser (CTRL+Alt+I). This is because web developers are still stupid, and sometimes the page will render properly, or close enough. Of course, the other half of the time it is really coded to IE. Then there are those maddening pages that don't even let you into their website unless you use IE. That really pisses me off, and usually ends up with me sending a nasty email to the webmaster of that site.

      And I still can't get my head around the Opera 7 mail client. Outlook Express ain't perfect, but at least I can find my mail...

      I have to use Outlook at work, but for home - pine. Yep, good ol pine. If I am somewhere remote, I can just download putty from the net, ssh into my box, and have my email checked in a matter of minutes. And my mail stays on my machine, no account to set up locally, and it is fasssst. It even handles attachments nicely, at least when I am on my home machine.

      --

      My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

    65. Re:Who in their mind... by tempest303 · · Score: 1

      Understood and agreed, but what I meant was that on higher end machines, I'd still run Phoenix for Windows or Epiphany for Linux, but on low-end machines, I could run Opera without cringing... heck, with a basic, phoenix/galeon/epiphany-like interface, I *might* even use it more regularly on my main machine...

    66. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      at least now if it all goes wrong and Opera disappears into obscurity, I won't feel like it was my fault. :)

      Don't worry, if Opera has business trouble, I'm sure Microsoft will be willing to buy it.

    67. Re:Who in their mind... by foote · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I give money to projects that I use and that deserve support. Opera and Jedit are two of them. Jedit is totally free, without any ads or nag screens, as it's an open source project. I'm not good enough yet to contribute to the project by programming (although I can report bugs and suggest features) but I can help out with a bit of money. And I want Opera development to continue, so I bought it.

    68. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just use it fullscreen.

    69. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree with hime to a degree. I think Opera has been declining in many ways since 5.12. Getting rid of windows homepages because people are too stupid to figure them out? Puhlease. M2? Crap.

    70. Re:Who in their mind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I *used* to feel this way, but ever since 5.12, Opera's been going downhill: memory leaks, unnecessary features, JS still broken, etc. AND they removed an actually *usefull* feature: Windows homepages, because "most people don't understand it" (read "we're trying to go mass market and stupid people don't understand it"). Nowadays I mostly use Crazy Browser for IE compatiblity and Phoenix for other stuff (using NT here-why won't someone come out with a good Linux CAD program?)

    71. Re:Who in their mind... by The+Cydonian · · Score: 1
      I'm shocked that Opera doesn't make that clearer, afterall the page you showed really should have pointed that out.

      You know, I think Opera has a huge problem in marketing its efforts. For instance, Opera has a very nifty feature called OperaShow which basically allows you to present stuff a la PowerPoint using W3C-defined html and CSS2 tags. As the author of the page I linked to says, it's almost "technology indistinguishable from magic". Real good stuff, and it's been there since 2000.

      For some mysterious reason, Opera isn't showing this as one of its main features. Which is a pity really; I know many people who have switched after I showed them this. (Not that they use OperaShow properly, but still)

    72. Re:Who in their mind... by hkmwbz · · Score: 1
      You can configure Opera to have a minimalist interface if you wanted, or even change skins. Installing skins is almost too easy - click on a skin on their skins page and it's done.

      But I like all the features Opera has. Phoenix is kind of playing catch-up and taking lots of features from Opera all the time.

      Mozilla is more down my alley, but since Opera is both smaller and faster (on my systems anyway), I prefer Opera. I'm keeping an eye on Phoenix, but it isn't quite there yet, and Opera doesn't seem to be losing its grip. Just look at the new spatial navigation feature in Opera 7 - it has never been this easy to use the keyboard only for surfing. Fast Forward isn't exactly an unusable new feature either, especially combined with the password manager.

      But these browsers are all superior to MSIE anyway, which is why we should spread the word about alternative browsers and let people try them out and choose which one they prefer. As long as it's Opera, Mozilla or another standards compliant browser it doesn't matter. The more people using alternative browsers the more sites will take them into account.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
    73. Re:Who in their mind... by sean23007 · · Score: 1

      Chimera seems to do a pretty decent job, but it is the only one of the 3 that always renders everything in the right place. Several of the sites I go to work perfectly with Gecko but are squashed on one side of the screen with Omniweb & Safari. I expect KHTML to improve drastically over the upcoming weeks/months, probably to the point of rivalling Gecko very soon.

      --

      Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
    74. Re:Who in their mind... by Ponty · · Score: 1

      I don't mean location. As long as tables and frames aren't grossly wrong, that doesn't bother me. I mean text line spacing, proper anti aliasing, general appearance. OmniWeb is still king, and Safari is nice. Gecko browsers look equally bad on all platforms.

    75. Re:Who in their mind... by sean23007 · · Score: 1

      I agree that Safari is nice (actually, I think it's better than Omniweb), but there are some sites where the whole site is jammed into 1/10 of the screen on the left, or shifted over so that half of the site is out of view. These errors do not happen in Gecko. And while Gecko looks equally bad everywhere, it doesn't look that bad anywhere.

      Not to mention all the things you can do with a Gecko browser that you can't with anything else (e.g. specific blocking of certain kinds of images, a la userContent.css). I love Safari, but I expect Apple to make extreme improvements to it before it hits 1.0 (after all, all the problems I mentioned are to be expected in beta software).

      --

      Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
    76. Re:Who in their mind... by Ponty · · Score: 1

      I suspect my priorities are very different from those of other people. If a site is totally broken like that, it doesn't matter me. When all webpages look equally blah, it makes me very upset, as I all I can think of is how much experience and pleasant quality I'm missing with every further page load. That's why I absolutely never use Chimera.

    77. Re:Who in their mind... by smagruder · · Score: 1

      It's no Gecko when it comes to standards compliance, but it's pretty good in 7.0.

      Yup. The standards compliance and rendering issues never seemed to end when I reviewed the final beta for Opera 7. I was so upset I stopped explicitly supporting Opera in my scripts. Opera is now on its own... if it renders correctly on my sites, great, if not, I don't care.

      --
      Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
  10. Re:Or...Safari by Dionysus · · Score: 1

    Is Safari available on Linux?

    --
    Je ne parle pas francais.
  11. Re:Great I just downloaded this 2 days ago by Edball · · Score: 5, Informative

    There are workarounds it says until the patch, just turn off javascript.. that gets rid of 4 of 5 holes. 5th hole is plugged by changing

    m.replace( /\\/g, "\\\\" ) +

    on line 52 of "console.html" in Opera's install dir with:

    m.replace( /\\/g, "\\\\").replace(/"/g,"")+

  12. You get what you (pay or don't) pay for... by thx2001r · · Score: 1

    It seems. With the barrage of security flaws in IE, Mozilla, Netcape, and Opera, it seems it doesn't matter if you pay or not!

    Or it could be that others are coming up with increasingly more ingenious ways to get around existing security and everyone is making sure they don't get caught with their pants down.

    Of course, you can always go with uncle steve on his safari and just believe the software is perfect as apple pie. I'd rather update and though it's a pain in the ass, at least know some holes are plugged from time to time (as new ways to subvert security are created) than lull myself into believing that security is ever Perfect from the get go.

    Conclusion: Updates good... Ignorance bad

    --

    -Joe
    If we're all god's children, what's so special about Jesus? - Jimmy Carr

    1. Re:You get what you (pay or don't) pay for... by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      When you say Uncle Steve, you mean Ballmer right, and not Jobs..

      I only ask because Apple's proprietary software and hardware fiefdom is sacrosanct around here, FYI.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    2. Re:You get what you (pay or don't) pay for... by thx2001r · · Score: 1

      I mean Uncle Steve Jobs of course :) I didn't know he was sacred to /. I must have missed that part of my EULA... I mean, after all, there are plenty of sites to go to Apple Worship. I imagine Steve Jobs is sacred there, but unless you see the Aqua theme (ala the Apple subsection of /.) around this message, I'm not living in Uncle Steve Jobs temple. Consequently, I don't live by HIS rules. In fact, I don't tend to worship any one or any beings so no person or entity is sacrosanct to me.

      What I was doing was kingly jesting the new browser that is still relatively virgin to the plethora of updates and security patches that it's older browser relatives are used to (and oft critized for)... I'm sure Safari is simply peachy on the Mac. Unfortunately, since I don't own nor choose to purchase Apple equipment (because of price (though it's going down) / my existing software and hardware library) I will have to take other people's word for it. I've found though that Apple people find all Apple products perfect no matter what. You can see where some of my skepticism begins (my opinion)?

      Besides, a little healthy teasing never did any web browser harm. The people that are devising new and more interesting ways to attack the security of browsers are doing more of the resoundingly un-healthy teasing. I suppose only time can tell what the World (wide web) will have instore for Safari! Until then, cheers!

      --

      -Joe
      If we're all god's children, what's so special about Jesus? - Jimmy Carr

  13. Re:Or...Safari by Istealmymusic · · Score: 1

    Safari is based on KHTML, so if you use Konquerer you'll have a similar experience. HTH, HAND.

    --
    "The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
  14. Jigga Who? by Acidic_Diarrhea · · Score: 4, Insightful
    That's nonsense. Today's browsers are taking on more and more functionality and becoming all-in-one wonders. Frankly, I want a small and sleek browser that just browsers and so I stay away from all the suite-based contraptions but, that being said, even a relatively clean browser like Opera has many components and each component has a lot to it. So saying there is a bug in the security model really doesn't tell you, the layman, anything because you don't know if an entire rewrite of the model is required or a five lines of error checking are needed.

    Furthermore, in an application - the problem of cohesion and coupling will forever rise. Unfortunately, many applications have modules that are heavily linked so when you ask "What isn't affected?", you aren't considering how many applications are programmed. Frankly, if module A is broken, in many, many cases where the design team was on the project for two weeks and the coding team never even talked to the design team, this would mean that B - F are also broken. I'm not saying this is a problem with Opera but some security flaws in a given module will often result in flaws being found in others.

    --
    I hate liberals. If you are a liberal, do not reply.
    1. Re:Jigga Who? by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      Furthermore, I was being a smartass.

      Peoples choices in web browser aren't nearly as important to me as they are to the average /.'er.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    2. Re:Jigga Who? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You were being a dump fucking cumdumpster as you always are you fucking piece of shit. Why don't you stop sucking dick? You're going to contract AIDS fag!

    3. Re:Jigga Who? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More likely to get the AIDS from boning your skank ass ho than slurping down the white gold, mothfucka.

    4. Re:Jigga Who? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never fucked a moth you dumb wigger. You have no dick.

  15. Re:Or...Safari by djupedal · · Score: 1

    "You are using OS X, right?"

    IMHO, Safari will migrate soon enough.

  16. Re:Great I just downloaded this 2 days ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure im sure youre grandma can do that. Did all the user interface people just Die or something?

  17. Re:Or...Safari by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Uhhh, no. The KHTML improvements from Apple will make it into KDE 3.2, and are nowhere to be found in the 3.1 release.

  18. Anyone who wants to use their browser, maybe? by freeweed · · Score: 1

    Mozilla is slow as molasses on anything less than a Ghz+ machine.

    IE is so full of holes, and no feasible way to kill popups short of crippling the browser.

    Your point again was?

    --
    Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
    1. Re:Anyone who wants to use their browser, maybe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "IE is so full of holes, and no feasible way to kill popups short of crippling the browser."

      Whatwasat?

    2. Re:Anyone who wants to use their browser, maybe? by damiam · · Score: 1
      Mozilla runs fine on a 266Mhz PII with 64MB of RAM and Windows 95.

      Your point again was?

      --
      It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
    3. Re:Anyone who wants to use their browser, maybe? by freeweed · · Score: 0

      You're a very, very patient user. Maybe you've never seen just how quick a real app can load...

      --
      Endless arguments over trivial contradictions in books written by ignorant savages to explain thunder in the dark.
    4. Re:Anyone who wants to use their browser, maybe? by trezor · · Score: 1

      This will probably sound like flamebait, but really, it's not meant as it. I know startup and runtime speeds might be two different things, I'll admit that.

      But I have NEVER seen a program so demanding as Mozilla for the single task of surfing the web. Some Mozilla based browsers, like Pheonix, have great speed but lack features.

      Mozilla, while being complete is to all my experience slower too boot and slower/equal runtime speeds than any competitor.

      So... All you guys saying that Mozilla is a fast browser really makes me wonder... What kind of speed and what kind of system?!?! Because across all the platforms and versions Ive tried, Ive never seen Mozilla outperform any other browser, and that is the truth (my truth).

      So before you guys start a flamefest, just keep in mind I asked a question here as well? Please?

      --
      Not Buzzword 2.0 compliant. Please speak english.
    5. Re:Anyone who wants to use their browser, maybe? by damiam · · Score: 1
      Ive never seen Mozilla outperform any other browser

      On that 266Mhz PII, Mozilla takes about 15 seconds to start up, and IE takes about 10. After that, they're roughly equal in speed. On my main computer (dual athlon 2200+ w/ 1GB RAM), Mozilla, IE, Opera, etc. all start up instantly (or pretty damn close). Mozilla isn't a speed demon, but I'd say it's generally at least as good as IE.

      --
      It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
  19. Why I like Opera by simetra · · Score: 1
    There are many reasons I like Opera. Here are a few:
    • It's not Microsoft or AOL/TW
    • Mouse gestures are nice
    • Tabbed browser windows are great
    • Easily installed skins and color schemes are fun
    • Email client is nice
    • CSS that doesn't work in IE appears to work in Opera
    • Ability to EASILY turn on/off pop-up windows, including ability to allow requested-only.
    • Many, many customizable features
    • Speed. Always faster than IE

    Those are the main reasons. It's well worth the small price to get a browser with so many good features. I find it amazing that anyone chooses to use IE!!!!

    --

    "Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
    1. Re:Why I like Opera by NineNine · · Score: 0, Troll

      It's not Microsoft or AOL/TW


      So?
      Mouse gestures are nice


      I'm not that lazy. It's not worth money.

      Tabbed browser windows are great

      I press alt+tab for IE, or I move the mouse down the screen instead of up. Oooh. Wow.

      Easily installed skins and color schemes are fun

      True. But worth money?

      Email client is nice

      I've got 10 others that do the same thing: they read email.

      CSS that doesn't work in IE appears to work in Opera

      Example that's not found on Opera.com?

      Ability to EASILY turn on/off pop-up windows, including ability to allow requested-only.

      I don't surf porn, I jsut make it. Thus, I don't see popups.

      Many, many customizable features


      It's a browser. How much do I have to customize it?

      Speed. Always faster than IE

      Nanoseconds? I'm not a computer. I don't notice.

      Again, nothing worth paying for. There's no value there. It may be better, but not good enough to pay any amount of money for.

    2. Re:Why I like Opera by Selfbain · · Score: 1

      1) So you're not fueling corporate machines that do more harm than good.

      2) I can see how expecting someone to make browsing easier can be thought of as "lazy". No, wait.. I can't.

      3) You don't HAVE to pay for it.

      4) Maybe he likes it better.

      5) ..

      6) If you've never been hit with porn pop-ups or even regular annoying popups you are either not doing much surfing or hanging around the same web sites all the time.

      7) For people who stare at browsers for hours, they may want to make it look different occasionally.

      8) I downloaded and tried Opera and noticed a difference immediately and I'm on DSL.

      Again, you don't have to pay for it.

      --
      Well, it has never been successfully tested.
    3. Re:Why I like Opera by nazh · · Score: 0

      CSS that doesn't work in IE appears to work in Opera

      Example that's not found on Opera.com?


      IE's implementations of CSS2 is just silly.
      css2 tests

  20. I may just be yet another opera fanboy, by a8f11t18 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    but opera surely does rock!! I have tried Mozilla, Pheonix, and IE, and also Konqueror and some other browser on linux which I tested a while ago, and well.. sorry, but opera is by far the best browser I've ever used.. I would mourn if it suddenly went bankrupt or whatever, as non of the other browsers are good enough for me after having used opera. Of course, things are looking fairly good for opera and their future, even though they're competing in the deadliest of markets - this hold true especially for the portable market. When discussing opera and browsers, someone always comes on and says why not use pheonix instead?? I will tell you something.. to me, pheonix feels almost as bloated as mozilla.. it's just something with the.. interface.. difficult to describe.. even the renderer feels slower, or in some other way inferior to the one of opera, but.. the show stops already with the user interface.. there's just something not completely right about it.. opera has nothing too fancy in the way of interface design, but it just works and feels very good. So some seem to think us opera users just make stupid claims.. tell me this.. why the hell would i bother to pay for opera if pheonix is just as good or even better as many claim? For me, it simply isn't.. besides, opera has some functionality moz/pheonix cannot offer me yet.

    1. Re:I may just be yet another opera fanboy, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it open source? If not, then you're just being strung along until the company goes tits up. Then you'll be fucked, while the rest of us will carry on using a superior, free, OPEN solution such as Mozilla or Phoenix.

    2. Re:I may just be yet another opera fanboy, by Repugnant_Shit · · Score: 1

      And don't forget - even the "lightweight" Phoenix browser's download is big compared to Opera's installer.

    3. Re:I may just be yet another opera fanboy, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would actually prefer IE with some addons (like anti-popup) than to use mozilla or pheonix.. no, that's not saying ANYTHING nice about IE.. rather, it's saying something VERY bad about pheonix and mozilla. They're just ugly and bloated.. so much in fact that even IE looks like a beauty queen in comparison.

    4. Re:I may just be yet another opera fanboy, by eddy · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm with you completely. I've been an Opera-fanboy since the 3.x-beta series. It just get more things right than other browsers -- and I'm continually looking at the alternatives (inkl. Mozilla, Phoenix and Konq), but the feeling isn'ty there.

      There's small things that I need, like the forward/backward gestures, I need my "tabs" at the bottom of the screen (the ones in Moz just looks and feels wrong). Any browser I use must absolutely be able to maintain state between sessions. I'm constantly using features like shift+ctrl+click, reload-every-X-min. I also use the mail-client and I want it on to the left of my browser window (integrated, just like it is in Opera).

      Unfortunately the Opera 7.0 release was way b0rken for me, but if they can ship one or two updates more (basically I couldn't use the email client, I was getting SSL_write() errors in my server log and messages never went out (and Opera didn't mention a thing!). That's bad, but if they can fix it then Opera 7 might become the best thing since Opera 6.05 which I'm back to using now.

      The only thing I truly lack in Opera now is a "developer raw tab" where I could see the HTTP requests and answers in the-raw, with a quick toggle between ASCII vs Hex+ASCII.

      Other than that I guess a bit better control over plugins (enable/disable) would be nice. Don't remember if that's fixed in 7, but in the 6-series you'll have to much around a plugins-ignore.ini which is only read on startup.

      And oh, seeing the raw message+headers in the mail client. Where did that go? There was this odd hidden function (ctrl+shift+y or something) to copy the headers to the C'n'P-buffer, but...

      Opera software, if you're reading this; Fix the mail client and I'll give you more of my money.

      --
      Belief is the currency of delusion.
    5. Re:I may just be yet another opera fanboy, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are just an open source hippie so shut your mouth.

    6. Re:I may just be yet another opera fanboy, by Tim+Browse · · Score: 1
      tell me this.. why the hell would i bother to pay for opera if pheonix is just as good or even better as many claim?

      Well, if you paid for a version of Opera before you tried Phoenix or Mozilla, then there's a two word explanation that might be appropriate: Cognitive Dissonance.

      Tim

  21. Re:Or...Safari by Istealmymusic · · Score: 1

    Besides the improvements, KHTML is identical to the KHTML used in Safari. So its not unreasonable to compare the two.

    --
    "The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
  22. Here's a Tip by simetra · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You shouldn't put any browser on a Critical Computer.

    --

    "Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
    1. Re:Here's a Tip by gmuslera · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Unless some genius take that choice for you and integrate the browser with a gui that you can't avoid to load, or integrated browser DLLs with the web server.

      There you must redefine critical or ban certain commonly used operating systems from critical systems (I like the second choice :)

    2. Re:Here's a Tip by Arnold_Crenshaw · · Score: 1
      Tell that idiot to stop fucking with Apache, then surf on over and configure it yourself.

      That oughta get the zealots cheering.

  23. Slashdot == Bugtrack by nickgrieve · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    News for nerds, stuff that matters

    More news and stuff that matters please.

  24. Phoenix by jsse · · Score: 5, Informative

    I know it might not help much, but all Opera user should give Phoenix a shot.

    I used Opera and I really like it very much as its efficiency and functionalities can really beat any other alternatives. However, I failed to get Java and flash work properly on Linux, it always has some glitches here and there. Opera works fine in this regard in Windows, though.

    Then I gave Phoenix a try. To my surprise, not only java and flash works flawlessly, its performance is even comparable to Opera! Although it doesn't have the same functionalities I'd find in Opera, but I can install extensions to enhance its usabilities. Above all, it wouldn't give you annoying banner ad(yes I didnt pay for Opera :)

    I just tell from my experience, and I've no association with Phoenix development team. :) (yeah, kudos to Phoenix developers!)

    1. Re:Phoenix by a8f11t18 · · Score: 1

      And I tell you from MY experience that yes, I've tried
      pheonix, yes, it works well enough, but no, it cannot
      hold its own against opera.. The main fault of pheonix
      compared to opera is that opera just FEELS a lot quicker,
      and also has some functionality that I cannot personalliy
      do without that pheonix/moz cannot yet offer. In other
      words, for me, pheonix feels just like mozilla.. a little
      unpolished around the edges, and with this "bloaty" feel
      that makes it seem A LOT slower than it actually is (because the rendering is actually quite good.. but the "feel" of the speed is just completely wrong).

    2. Re:Phoenix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hah.. pheonix is quite bloated too.. it's like, take
      100% mozilla.. mozilla consists of bloat.. now, cut
      away 30% bloat.. what do you have then? You have 30%
      less bloat, but it is still 100% bloat.. if you get
      my point :=)

    3. Re:Phoenix by jsse · · Score: 1

      A LOT slower than it actually is (because the rendering is actually quite good.. but the "feel" of the speed is just completely wrong).

      Have you tried this performance hack? It's off by default. OSS project as such always not optimize its release to its full-extend, you've to find your way out. :)

    4. Re:Phoenix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, sorry ... opera is a mature, highly sophisticated piece of software. Phoenix looks like a piece of shit some first-year MIS student cooked up.

    5. Re:Phoenix by Jugalator · · Score: 1

      Funny, to me it was the other way around. :-)

      I've used Phoenix since 0.1, but the project has stalled a bit and with all the bugs still in Phoenix, I chose to switch. I particularly dislike the autocomplete crash bug and the address bar sometimes incorrectly picking an address from the history. I.e. I type slashdot.org, press Enter, and it picks http://www.slashdot.org/users.pl.

      The 0.5 release also have a major memory leak bug, so you need to know which nightly you need to pick. I heard the very latest builds have a new image bug of some kind, unless it was fixed.

      Phoenix also cause hard drive thrashing every time I visit a page with Java applets. Opera has less problems with that, and so far the applets on the pages I visit have worked.

      I might come back if 0.6 fix the annoyances, but the dev team has been silent, except for some week ago when they said the project isn't dead, but that the development might slow down a bit.

      Right now, Opera 7 has everything I could wish for except "a middle button opens tab in background". :-)

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    6. Re:Phoenix by nagora · · Score: 1
      However, I failed to get Java and flash work properly on Linux,

      I've not had any trouble with Flash on Linux Opera. I know a lot of people have had trouble with Java but, since I've yet to see a Java app worth running, I always have it switched off anyway so I don't know.

      TWW

      --
      "Encyclopedia" is to "Wikipedia" what "Library" is to "Some people at a bus stop"
  25. Re:Great I just downloaded this 2 days ago by WowTIP · · Score: 1

    I have a feeling the number of grandmas using Opera 7 is pretty small, though.

    What Edball mentioned is a temporary fix until the patches are released. They will hopefully be more user friendly.

    --

    --

    "I'm surfin the dead zone
    In the twilight, unknown"
  26. The Difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Opera comes up with security problems, and they're fixed in short order.

    IE has one big security problem (script support) and a whole bunch of little ones, and the patches come, well, when they get around to it.

    Conclusion: Well, you decide for yourself...

    This Post Made From Within Opera (6.0)

    1. Re:The Difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually:

      Opera gets the word about the security holes privately 6 days ago. They ask that the information not be made public for 7 days. The announcement is made in 6 days instead of seven and Slashdot spins it as a fix that is released within 24 hours. On top of that, the fanboys bitch about the public announcement being made a day earlier then requested.

      Microsoft gets notified when its announced to the whole world that there is a bug, and when they ask for some lead time so they can release a fix before an announcement is made, the same assholes spew off on how closed MS is and how they just want to cover shit up. Or, MS finds a security hole before it is discovered by the masses, releases a patch for it, and 6 months later when an exploit is released that attacks that bug, the assholes spew off about how insecure IE is totally failing to recognize that the patch has been available for 6 fucking months.

      You sir are one of these assholes. STFU about Opera. Only a complete brainwashed fucking moron would pay for something when the same features are available in several FREE browsers. People who use Opera only do it so that they can sound like an enlightened computer user when they tell people that they use something different. Instead they are so full of shit they should be cut up into tiny pieces and spread over someones garden.

  27. Re:Or...Safari by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are using OS x, right? :)

    Umm.. actually no. When I bought a new computer several months ago, I sat down and thought about the choices available. Either it was going to be a Mac or an Athlon. After some contemplation, I decided to go for the Athlon and use the left over hundred dollar bills to light cigars.

  28. Oh well. by brsmith4 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    I use mozilla, so I really can't speak for opera. What I can say is this: I'll be sticking to my free 'bloatware' until A) It's no longer developed B) I am forced at gunpoint to run a piece of shitty software that I have to pay for.

    1. Re:Oh well. by Repugnant_Shit · · Score: 1

      I use mozilla, so I really can't speak for opera

      a piece of shitty software


      Translation: I never used it, but opera is shitty, because payment is optional.

    2. Re:Oh well. by @madeus · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Or how about: 'It's shitty because I, like the poster and lots of other people, think that it is slower than the alternatives and has a poor user interface.'

      It's nothing to do with the fact that it costs money, IMO it just sucks. I've paid for web browsers, I paid for Netscape 4.0, I paid for Omniweb (both around 40 USD) but I wouldn't use Opera if it was the only free browser on earth. I would rather use the Hot Java browser and it _really_ sucks.

      Opera just doesn't render as quickly or as well as Galeon, Chimera or a number of other similar derivatives. It's 'speed' claims are actually primarily related to it's UI responsiveness - not, in many cases, actually how fast it renders real world pages, particularly with embeded content.

      On OS X it's slower than Chimera, Safari, IE, Mozilla (!), and even the god awful crud that is iCab.

      I want a cross between Omniweb's great feature set, but with tabs, the Google bar, snap back, Chimera's rendering system (NOT KHTML, yuck!) and Safari's speed.

    3. Re:Oh well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      10. Hosts the Miss World pre-pageant cocktail party

      9. Puts inspection tags in new pants

      8. Decides when a model officially becomes a supermodel

      7. Determines which world problems require a call to Batman

      6. Produces General Foods International Coffees

      5. On Tuesday nights, broadcasts "Buffy The Vampire Slayer"

      4. Provides steady employment for guys named Blix

      3. Makes globes

      2. Assigns grade of "mild," "medium," or "hot" to salsa

      1. "I don't know, but go Cornhuskers!

    4. Re:Oh well. by @madeus · · Score: 1

      Right, so I post that I dislike a product (and GIVE REASONS WHY!, i.e. I dislike the rendering engine and it's speed compared to alternatives) and it's modded as 'flamebait'?

      Ooh he said something mean about a product he doesn't like! That's flamebait!

      The origional post I replied to is a far better canidate for 'flamebait'.

      I STILL don't like Opera and I STILL think it's a worse product than Omiweb, Safari, Konquerer, Galeon, Mozilla, Internet Explorer and iCab (though in the case of the latter, only just).

      Furthermore, the reason many people dislike it has STILL gto nothing to do with cost as the origional post suggested (otherwise I would clearly not have paid for Netscape or Omniweb - for which payment was OPTIONAL and neither punished you with adverts for not purchasing).

  29. Grey Magic didn't wait two days! by antdude · · Score: 4, Informative

    According to this forum thread, it said "Grey Magic looking at the alert said they informed Opera in Nov. of the problems in beta 1 of version 7. In beta 2 Opera thought they had fixed it but instead had only fixed part and not all. On Jan. 31 Grey Magic informed Opera of these problems in version 7 final , Opera asked for the to wait till Feb. 6 before announcing so that they could have it fixed , Grey Magic chose not to wait just 2 more days."

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    1. Re:Grey Magic didn't wait two days! by inerte · · Score: 1

      They were insterest in the media attention that they would receive.. releasing fixed security holes information has less impact then releasing it while it still, for most of the users, unfixed...

  30. This is where I have to agree. by tshak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...that full disclosure of security issues is not in the publics interest. Opera has aggressively been working on the problems, and has released 7.01 which (AFAIK) fixes said problems. However, they did not have reasonable time to address each issue once found.

    It's one thing when a company sits on an exploit for a month without even aknowledging it. It's another when a company acknowledges it, and requests a reasonable amount of time to make a fix, and regression test that fix. Sheeshe, give these guys a break - they patched very quickly and from what it looks like it's a stable patch.

    --

    There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
    1. Re:This is where I have to agree. by WoodSmoke · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I have to agree with this. I think immediate vulnerability release is not a responsible way to handle things if security is your ultimate goal. It is my **opinion** that companies should be warned and given the option to provide a complete, stable, tested fix. I do, however, support public disclosure if the company decides that it can't be bothered to protect the very people that justify its existance.

      Just my 2 cents.

      WoodSmoke

  31. Re:Or...Safari by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    LOL
    Besides the improvements
    what ever next
    Besides the diffrences Linux is just the same as Windows.

  32. overheard at Opera headquarters by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Programmer1: Ouch! Somebody just discovered some security holes in our browser!

    Programmer2: Yeah, I saw that too. I was working on it all morning, but I believe I've fixed all the outstanding issues in our code. Now we just need to notify our user base.

    Programmer1: Yup. You gonna call him, or should I?

    *RIMSHOT*

    1. Re:overheard at Opera headquarters by pi_rules · · Score: 1

      Co-worker: "I've got a buddy down in Arkansas that does computer network support down there..."

      Me: "Really, both of 'em?"

      Co-worker: "Both of what?"

      Me: "Both computers -- he's got the two of them in Arkansas networked up? Good deal."

      *RIMSHOT*

    2. Re:overheard at Opera headquarters by Fourier · · Score: 1

      Wait, let me get this straight, they have two programmers?

  33. Re:Or...Safari by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yes, it is, because the code Apple released back to the KDE developers makes the browser fly.

    http://promo.kde.org/3.1/feature_guide.php?page= 4

    "Much attention has recently been showered on the KDE HTML rendering engine due to its adoption by Apple in its Safari browser. While some of the efforts of the Safari developers have found their way into KDE 3.1, the vast majority of the Apple developers' performance, rendering and JavaScript improvements which will be incorporated into KHTML are scheduled for release with KDE 3.2."

  34. Re:Or...Safari by zapfie · · Score: 1

    Yes, Apple, with its large web browser marketshare, is producing a browser that is causing people to migrate away from Opera on no less than 8 operating systems.

    Look, I love OS X. (well, mainly Cocoa and Aqua.. well, and Quartz Extreme... and Rendezvous.. and..) But saying Safari is driving Opera out of the market is goofy.

    --
    slashdot!=valid HTML
  35. OFFTOPIC WARNING! That said, q about OSX skin! by Eric_Cartman_South_P · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    Anyone know where I can get OS X skin for Mozilla running on Windoze? Thanks :)

  36. Have Sun seen this!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It can be downloaded with Java (12.9Mb) or without (3.3Mb)."

    Oooh shite!!! Java cross-platform failure alert! Pass me my lawyer...

    (offtopic: feck me, Java is bloatware! 9.6MB!?)

    1. Re:Have Sun seen this!?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I think I know where you were trying to go with your statement. They offer two different d/l's, both use Java, one has it included in the download (12.9MB) and the other is if you already have a version of Java installed (3.3MB).

  37. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  38. that has to be some sort of record for a big fix. anyone know if these were discovered after the 7.0 release or if it was something known before that were saved till after the release to polish up?

    1. Re:well by The+Other+White+Boy · · Score: 1

      correction, that should say BUG fix, not big fix, my bad. =) and before anyone says anything, i know one of the bugs is listed as having been reported in november, but has 7.0 really been in beta that long?

    2. Re:well by hkmwbz · · Score: 1
      They were notified on Friday, made the fix available yesterday and released it officially today, Wednesday. That's four to five days to fix the five vulnerabilities, do regression testing and normal QA, and release it.

      They have not known about it since November.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
  39. Ya right.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm supposed to believe that a patch could be issued this quickly for a security issue?!!! No way, it must be fake!! If MS can't do it, nobody can, they are the bomb!! :)

    Note: The above is meant to be funny, not trollish

  40. Thank goodness that didn't let me know by lingenfr · · Score: 2, Flamebait

    It chaps my butt just a bit that Opera did not have the courtesy to send me an email letting me know that a new version was available. I registered my Windows and Linux versions. Maybe their email server is buggy too.

    1. Re:Thank goodness that didn't let me know by patrikr · · Score: 1

      Join the mailing list and you'll get an e-mail when there's a new version out.

      --
      All Glory To The Hypnotoad!
  41. And the correct answer is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because it's fast and relatively small. No, it's not accurate like Mozilla/Netscape6+. No, it's not "integrated" like Konqui and IE. It's not pretty (except to those who've grown used to it). It's not standards-compliant (even IE does most things better these days). But it is FAST.

    You run it. You surf. You close it. You're done. Simple. It's the KISS browser, if you will. And it's the only decent browser that can run in an ultra-low RAM environment (various mobile devices).

    Those who'd care to disagree please have the decency to prove it. Thank you.

    1. Re:And the correct answer is... by yomegaman · · Score: 1

      Well, I just tried out Opera 6 for Mac OS X and it was extremely slow, especially scrolling pages. Granted, I'm on a puny 500 MHz G3 iBook but still, it was bad. Much worse than either Chimera (for tab-lovers) or Safari (what I'm using these days). Probably the Windows version is a lot faster but on OS X it's not even in the race.

      --
      ...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
  42. what...can't think standing up? by djupedal · · Score: 1

    But, with an Athlon under your desk, you'll be able to light those cigars from the fire that starts as soon as the processor gets up to operating temp. No need to waste the bills...you might as well get that Apple you know you want :)

    By the way, I run OS X and Mandrake...on an Athlon. The Athlon was in a used box I picked up, and was running at 68 deg. C. I replaced the fan and heat sink and it's down to 48 deg. C now. My G4 runs at 38, as I recall.

    1. Re:what...can't think standing up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My Athlon 1800+ runs at 34 deg C with www.cpuidle.de

    2. Re:what...can't think standing up? by Cheeziologist · · Score: 1

      I have an athlon t-bird 1.33 Ghz running at 30.C so why would i want a g4 running at 38

    3. Re:what...can't think standing up? by atrus · · Score: 1

      You're running OS X and Madrake on an Athlon? Can I get a copy of your OS X for x86? :)

    4. Re:what...can't think standing up? by Rude-Boy · · Score: 1

      who gives a crap if the athlon runs 10deg hotter?

      at least he can play something besides warcraft 3 on it.

  43. Opera support response time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Wrote 'em an email complaining about their security-through-obscurity model, and had a reply back from a developer within ten minutes, pointing me to the FTP site with the fixed version...

    That's not a bad response at all, IMHO.

    And no, I don't work for 'em - are they hiring at the moment? :)

    1. Re:Opera support response time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You wanna move to Norway?

  44. Re:Great I just downloaded this 2 days ago by stevejsmith · · Score: 0, Troll

    Yeah. Great idea. Let's fuck our Internet experience by turning off one of the most widely used web standards. And while you're at it, let's go and edit text files! Great idea! Wait a minute...this reminds me of something. Begins with an M, ends with an ozilla. Any guesses, kids? No, actually, it doesn't. Here...let me pipe the output of yes and include that as a module to one of the source files. Now it's that secret browser of ours.

  45. Re:Or...Safari by Bluetick · · Score: 1

    Actually, no, Opera has almost no marketshare in OSX. it's either IE, Safari, Chimera and Mozilla. Opera is a very distant fifth on OSX.

  46. Hasn't "officially" been released yet by Chuck+Chunder · · Score: 1

    It's just hit their FTP servers. If you've signed up for their announcement newsletter (which you get the option to do during your purchase as I recall) then you'll know as soon as they announce it no doubt.

    --
    Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
  47. Yes by damiam · · Score: 2, Informative
    Thank god!



    Yes, I know the parent was sarcastic.

    --
    It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
  48. Nah.... by darekana · · Score: 2, Funny


    Programmer2: Nah... lets just post it on slashdot.

  49. Not 24 Hours by sparkhead · · Score: 3, Informative

    Maybe 24 hours since it's been reported here, but look at the error reports, the latest report is dated January 29th, the earliest is from November (a variant of the hole in question).

  50. 7.01 not officially released! by TeknoHog · · Score: 3, Informative
    Many people have noted before (concerning BSDs and the like) that files appearing at ftp sites do NOT mean it's officially released. Opera 7.01 is still not officially released, and the files might still change.

    For the alpha previews of their unix versions, go here.

    --
    Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  51. The problem isn't "fixed" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just because a developer "fixes" the code, doesn't automatically push it out to users. Software should auto-update.

  52. Wow... Opera kicks ass by Kadagan+AU · · Score: 1

    I look on slashdot and see that my current browser had security holes, and an update saying that it's already fixed and where to get the fixed version. I love Opera. It makes me happy. If only other *coughmicrosoftcough* companies would learn from this!

    ~Jon~

    --
    This space for rent, inquire within.
  53. More like IE 5.0 vs. IE 5.5 by yerricde · · Score: 1

    The difference between KHTML 3.1 (used in KDE 3.1) and KHTML 3.2 (used in Safari and KDE 3.2) is more like the difference between Microsoft Internet Explorer 5 (used in Microsoft Windows 2000) and Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.5.2 (used in Microsoft Windows 2000 Service Pack 3). In other words, not much significant has changed.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
    1. Re:More like IE 5.0 vs. IE 5.5 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you know this because...?

    2. Re:More like IE 5.0 vs. IE 5.5 by Istealmymusic · · Score: 1

      What can change in an HTML rendering program? Not much--all the navigation, bookmarks, whatever is outside KTHML, right?

      --
      "The lesson to be learned is not to take the comments on slashdot too literally." --Vinnie Falco, BearShare
    3. Re:More like IE 5.0 vs. IE 5.5 by rodgerd · · Score: 2, Informative

      Standards compliance and psuedo-webbish features. Microsoft themselves culled a huge about of crap and non-standard extensions between 4.0 and 5.0, some more between 5.0 and 5.5, and 6.0 is becoming stricter again.

      (Although it should be added there's stuff 5.5 that wasn't in 5.0; IIRC, the JavaScript XML parser is new in 5.5).

  54. Not fixed in 24hours by friday2k · · Score: 1, Redundant

    Opera knew earlier about them. From a Bugtraq post:
    For the five advisories posted today concerning Opera 7, I have not seen and information on when and how Opera Software was notified of the problems, and if they were/when planning for a fixed release.

    Alright, after reading:

    http://my.opera.com/forums/showthread.php?s=9034 e4 c94d7495e8166839fd2b242753&threadid=10657

    and:

    http://theregister.co.uk/content/55/29177.html

    It looks like Opera Software was notified 1/31, and asked for the announcement to be delayed until 1/6.

    Was there a good reason to post the vulnerabilities today rather than thursday?

  55. Maybe not eight by yerricde · · Score: 1

    Apple ... is producing a browser that is causing people to migrate away from Opera on no less than 8 operating systems.

    That's at least half right. I can think of at least four operating systems where Apple's contribution to the KHTML component may cause Opera's market share to decrease: Mac OS X Jaguar, Linux, FreeBSD, and Solaris operating environments. The X11 based version of Safari is called "Konqueror" and comes packaged with the forthcoming KDE 3.2 desktop environment.

    --
    Will I retire or break 10K?
    1. Re:Maybe not eight by zapfie · · Score: 1

      I agree that the core HTML engine is very important, but interface also counts for a lot. I'm not saying either is better or worse, but Safari and Konqueror sport very different interfaces.

      --
      slashdot!=valid HTML
  56. Over 10 million opera users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Opera has over 10 million users of their browsers, keeping in mind that some still use version 6 and even 5. Your comment was inaccurate, immature, and stupid. Please put your bottom lip over your head and swallow. In other words, what me and the rest of everyone here are saying to you is SHUT THE FUCK UP!

    1. Re:Over 10 million opera users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't take a joke, eh?

      Opera still SUCKS!

  57. Ok, I'll bite. by simetra · · Score: 1

    I just fired up IE to about:blank, typed in www.slashdot.org, and it took it 7 seconds to load.

    I did the exact same thing in Opera, and it took 3 seconds. Sure, it's not scientific, but it's very typical of the response times I see using the two browsers. And yes, I do use both because there are a number of asstards out there who make their sites IE only, and I must view them for work.

    As for an example, I have a minor css thing on http://www.mzla.com/bible that doesn't appear at all in IE (highlighted text). I've seen plenty other examples, but am too lazy to find them now. The things I listed are well worth the money, in my book. If you don't find them worth the money, don't buy it, don't use it. It's your choice.

    --

    "Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
  58. Who in their mind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Has moderated this guys all troll posts with huge points so he has +2 karma bonus? ;)

  59. Cheezy we need suse 8.1 by applevader · · Score: 1

    Cheez u must know who this is lets use suse 8.1 for that IBM box.

  60. that damn well better be sarcastic by SHEENmaster · · Score: 1

    If a post is pro-M$ and not obviously sarcastic we begin to wonder about your sanity.

    --
    You can't judge a book by the way it wears its hair.
  61. bull shit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    you pulled that straight out of your ass.

    1. Re:bull shit. by Arnold_Crenshaw · · Score: 1

      Insightful, indeed! :D

  62. bottom line by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    why opera ? wow, either your running a p200 (or slower) or just dont have a clue.

    I can load opera and be browsing 3 sites before the moz even loads. I love moz, using it now. but damn, opera just rocks the house.

  63. Athlon temp...off topic or what... Opera! by djupedal · · Score: 1

    That sounds more like it...I don't want hear 'burning down the house' on my way home some evening :)

    This is a 1010 Athlon...what is the 'normal' temp for these things?

    1. Re:Athlon temp...off topic or what... Opera! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have an Athlon 1000 with a silent double fan.

      With the HLT command enabled, idle temperature is 30 degrees Celsius

      Without the HLT command or under full CPU load, temperature is 50 degrees C.

    2. Re:Athlon temp...off topic or what... Opera! by djupedal · · Score: 1

      HLT? And...I use that command under Mandrake 9.x, how?

  64. roast duck, anyone....OPERA! by djupedal · · Score: 1

    hehehe...okokok...

    OS x.
    ...and Mandrake on an Athlon -

    ...or...
    I run OS X and Mandrake. Mandrake on an Athlon... No Opera.

    Now watch someone start talking about OS X for ix86 all over again :(

  65. hothothot....OPERA! by djupedal · · Score: 1
    Things you can play with an overheating Athlon.
    • Witches of Salem IV... aka 'Burn 'em At The Stake'
    • The War of 1812, 1813, 1814....
    • The 4th of July all year 'round
    • Elvis...Burn'n burn'n hunk o' love
    • Fire Starter DVD Special Effects Edition
    1. Re:hothothot....OPERA! by loraksus · · Score: 1

      OK, I'll bite, I have an athlon 700 oc'ed to 1050 with a nice heatsink and 2 case fans. Runs at a nice comfortable 38 Deg C - also hella quieter than a G4 MDD / "Windtunnel" - even after the firmware patch.
      I get these poor bastards calling in with MDD's and you can _very_ easily tell if the luser shut down or just rebooted. /end bitter tech support rant.

      --
      1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcfv gbhnjmk,l.;/
    2. Re:hothothot....OPERA! by Rude-Boy · · Score: 1

      what.
      the.
      fuck.
      ?.

  66. its true by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

    I use IE for everything and set my own security levels and keep up to date with patches. Add a little shareware app called pop up stopper and its perfect. Tell me again why I need opera? I use what works for me, not what other people think is right.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re:its true by Hellkitten · · Score: 1

      Tell me again why I need opera?

      Becuse when there's a security hole they have it patched within 24 hours? Never seen a patch come that fast from redmond

      Admittedly (assuming you know what you are doing and reads security advisories) you can configure out a lot of IEs security holes while you're waiting for a patch

      --
      - We are the slashdot. Resistance is futile. Prepare to be moderated -
    2. Re:its true by yog · · Score: 1

      Well if you use other than a Microsoft or Apple OS you probably can't run IE. On Linux desktops I have found Opera to be still the best browser, though Mozilla is getting there and Konqueror is a nice one for quickie tasks.

      On Windows, I have to agree that IE takes the cake. I use Moz 1.2.1 on my 2000 workstation at work though. Problem is, some of the apps I have to use will only run correctly on IE. Grrr.

      --
      it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
    3. Re:its true by binarie · · Score: 0

      ... if you think about it, just imagine how much money will be lost in advertising if IE would implement anit-popup function... like mozilla for example

    4. Re:its true by Black+Copter+Control · · Score: 1
      I use IE for everything and set my own security levels and keep up to date with patches. Add a little shareware app called pop up stopper and its perfect. Tell me again why I need opera?

      You mean besides the fact that I have your credit card info?????
      [obligatory :-) ]

      --
      OS Software is like love: The best way to make it grow is to give it away.
    5. Re:its true by rjch · · Score: 1
      On Windows, I have to agree that IE takes the cake.
      Not for my money. I've been running Mozilla 1.3a for well over a month, and despite being a beta build, it has only ever crashed on me once. That's a far better record than IE, which incidentally, usually trashes Windows Explorer when it crashes itself.
      Problem is, some of the apps I have to use will only run correctly on IE. Grrr.

      Very few and far between in my experience. Even so, it's not Mozilla's fault that some webmins can't (or won't) write standards compliant web pages.
  67. Re:roast duck, anyone....MARKLAR! by jx100 · · Score: 1

    I marklar marklar marklar Marklar. after all, marklar, marklar, marklar, marklar! Especially since Marklar marklar marklar marklar, and marklar marklar marklar.

    MARKLAR!.

  68. two words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    tabbed browsing

    1. Re:two words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I use Mozilla and I don't use tabbed browsing. What a killer feature that is.

      I mean seriously, if you care that much, you should know there's a program that embeds IE's COM component so you can have tabbed browsing. Such a tabbed browsing fanatic must surely know this already, though.

  69. Eh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    If you can put up with a small, non-flashing banner ad

    There's one flashing at me right now. But it's very non-intrusive and most of them (they change periodically) don't flash. Only once in the last year was there a flashing ad there that got on my nerves. Once in a while they show some funny toons there too (very clever). Also, going full-screen makes the little add window disappear. But it is an exceptionally small price to pay for such a great browser. Still, once I recover from the unscheduled free time that the dot-bomb delivered me and get some $ coming in, I'm going to buy a copy. They deserve the money.

    Overall, Opera is such a damned well thought-out and implemented browser, I have no intention of going back to the "majors" - they are bush-league in comparison.

    And I've converted 5/5 people who were fed up with IE in the last year, which is pure bonus satisfaction.

  70. WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Opera is practically unusable, thanks to its fantastically confusing and inconsistant UI.

    Then you must be one fucking dumb person. Holy shit, even Bush could figure it out.

  71. If configuring Opera is too difficult for you ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    then for your own good, you'd better stick to just using your Palm Pilot - although you'll probably need a 6-week course for that.

    And I mean that in the nicest way.

  72. Why did they release the holes in the first place? by LemurShop · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yes, security through obscurity and all but shouldnt they have contacted Opera first to let them know and let them fix it before announcing them to the public? This isnt some 3 months-waiting-ms-bug, Opera 7 has been out for a month.

    --

    This sig was cut off by the sla
  73. /.ed again! by vonsneerderhooten · · Score: 1

    Dammit i PAID for opera and now i cant even download it.

  74. use 6.X not 7.X by DABANSHEE · · Score: 1

    6 is no where near as buggy as 7 & has much more mature features.

    Afterall 7 is a beta.

    The bookmarking folder setup is much more flexible too

    1. Re:use 6.X not 7.X by lvdrproject · · Score: 1

      Um, no? When the poster says "the recently-released Opera 7.0", they mean Opera 7 FINAL.

  75. Re:two words-- done before by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A windows user using IE has had tabbed browsing for years... The only difference being that the tabs were in the start bar
    |
    |
    V

  76. Internet Explorer is not free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everyone that has a legal copy of Windows has in effect "paid" for Internet Explorer. The cost to license it is "bundled" together with Windows so you don't know how much you spent. Believe it or not there was a very public case about this in federal courts. For the love of God, stop saying that IE is free.

  77. Unix versions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All unix versions on their download page (save Solaris) are newer than the ones on the alpha page.

    Peder

  78. My question is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    whay is java support 9.6 MB, or nearly triple the size of the browser!

  79. Memory leaks by edxwelch · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What about huge the memory leaks that were in the beta 2? Did they fix those as well? Just curious.

  80. Holy Java bloat, Batman! by alexburke · · Score: 1

    It can be downloaded with Java (12.9Mb) or without (3.3Mb).

    And we bitch at Microsoft for putting out bloatware? Yikes...

    1. Re:Holy Java bloat, Batman! by joebp · · Score: 1

      The Sun JRE is 9.5MB. Add that to the base install of 3.3MB and what do you get?

    2. Re:Holy Java bloat, Batman! by alexburke · · Score: 1

      That's exactly my point, Einstein. The JRE is TRIPLE THE SIZE OF THE ENTIRE BROWSER!

      If that isn't bloat, I don't know what is...

  81. Two thumbs up! by User01 · · Score: 1

    I love Opera, I just fell in love with it a week ago. the mouse gestures, the overall feel or the gui. I have a few problems with it though. One being that when I highlight text that is on a url, I cant save the actual text, I just have the option to save the URL . Also, the scroll feature in Opera is very buggy, I cant scroll while a page is loading or I have to have the mouse "inside" the area I am wanting to scroll, instead of just putting the cursor to the right and scrolling. It just wont let me! I found a serial # to get rid of the ads, so that I could try it out without the Ads ( I HATE ADS ) That way I could see how it REALLY looks like and feels like. I am putt off by these security holes Big time right now, I have patched the browser, and am still loving the experiance. I would be willing to pay for this Browser once a few bugs and really obvious funtions are added. Another side affect of using Opera, is you start to do mouse gestures in other applications lol LMOA I mean It really is a wonderful thing, I wouldnt go back to IE or Mozilla ( shudder ) again.

  82. Opera Vs IE by Cintentions · · Score: 1

    If Opera was compatiable with all sites then would it be set as a default browser?

    IE would have no use and Opera would take over! Surely Opera is more Superior to IE if it was compatiable with all sites.

  83. Re: Love after a week? by Leeji · · Score: 2, Funny

    I love Opera, I just fell in love with it a week ago

    Let me tell you something that all of us geeks should remember for future encounters with women: it's not love after a week, it's lust :)

    --
    It all goes downhill from first post ...
  84. Re:Opera reg codes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wrong , security is not shit. hackers are good. never diss Opera

  85. Re: Love after a week? by User01 · · Score: 1

    Lust is what you could decribe my facination with the usability of this browser lol

  86. Opera beneficial to Open Source by henben · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Even if you don't want to use a commercial browser, the existence of Opera is a good thing for projects like Mozilla.

    Let me explain: Opera have shown their willingness to innovate and add new features to their browser. And they're good at it. Many of their ideas are very useful, *and* they're designed to benefit the user rather than create new "standards" to try and lock in developers.

    Opera promoted the ideas of tabbed browsing and mouse gestures, ideas that were taken up by many Gecko-based browsers. The new release adds and intelligent "forward" button, understanding of navigational META tags, and small screen rendering.

    If you watch Moz and Phoenix, you will see the influence of Opera - for example, the demand for Opera-style "rocker" gestures (using mouse button combos rather than movement) to be added to the gesture extensions.

    Now, I'm not saying that Open Source projects should only clone and never innovate - and in fact, there are many innovations in Mozilla (pie menu navigation and type ahead find, for example). But Opera is a useful source of good interface ideas, and the company is not taking out bogus patents to "protect" them.

    1. Re:Opera beneficial to Open Source by KjetilK · · Score: 1

      and the company is not taking out bogus patents to "protect" them.

      Yup. And they have a firm stance against software patents too.

      --
      Employee of Inrupt, Project Release Manager and Community Manager for Solid
    2. Re:Opera beneficial to Open Source by hkmwbz · · Score: 1
      I believe Opera had "type ahead find" before Mozilla, only it is called "inline find". The implementations are slightly different, but I believe the point still stands.

      Still, Mozilla is a damn fine browser, as is Opera.

      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
  87. browsers and critical computers by midgley · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Our definitions of criticality and advsable behaviour may differ. We are both right, of course.

    I'm a medical doctor.

    My desktop computer is critical.

    I need to look up stuff from our internal and external knowledge stores like the Dermatology advice (no URL offered by me!), and national electronic library for health GP Notebook and the US NIH, University of Iowa virtual hospital, that sort of stuff, while I'm dealing with patients.

    In due course I may need to order (we say request) tests or further opinions which are accessed via a browser.

    I think I need a browser on my critical computer.

    I can do it by using the VNC session I maintain to the Linux machine on the network, and running the browser on that, but that makes cut and paste, and triggering a browser from a database noticeably more difficult.

  88. Misleading numbers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While the turnaround for a new release was only 24 hours, 90% of the users will still be vulnerable in a week. Full disclosure is bullshit, even if they fix it fast that doesn't mean the fix is deployed. Plenty of time for exploits to cause trouble.

  89. GreyMagic's security wisdom by Jim+Efaw · · Score: 1

    Looked at GreyMagic's web site with Opera cookie notification on?

    http://www.greymagic.com/
    This page wishes to set the cookie
    ASPSESSIONIDXXXXXXXX="XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"

    Replaced with Xs to protect the innocent. Not only www but also "security". It's brave of them to be the lab rats for their own research-- or something.

  90. Opera in the movies by rpi1995 · · Score: 1

    Did anybody see 'The Recruit'?

    I'm pretty sure that at one point Colin Farrel was using a browser that said "Opera" in huge text across the top. I thought it was an interesting choice, given that more than half the audience has probably never heard of it.

    1. Re:Opera in the movies by hkmwbz · · Score: 2, Informative
      From the opera.com main page:
      Opera Goes to Hollywood

      See Opera make its debut in Hollywood, starring in "The Recruit" alongside Al Pacino and Colin Farrell.

      Opera fans: Wake up your fellow movie goers, give Opera a cheer during the film. ;-)

      It's also being discussed in the Opera forums.
      --
      Clever signature text goes here.
  91. Something that bugs me by Stephen+Gilbert · · Score: 1

    Can anyone tell me why Opera Software doesn't release incremental upgrade patches? I know it's only a 3 meg download, but that's still considerable over my dial-up connection, and shouldn't be necessary for a .01 upgrade/security fix.

  92. Phoenix is nice, but... by Stephen+Gilbert · · Score: 1

    I need a browser that will run on 486s and low-end Pentiums with less than 64 megs of RAM. Opera is the only graphical choice on Windows for those old beasts.

  93. Re:Quick Turnaround (instant workarounds) by gosand · · Score: 1
    Opera didn't announce the exploits, idiot. They requested that the people who discovered them wait to announce them for TWO DAYS so that a fix could be released before the exploits became publicly known. The exploit discoverers did not comply. Opera did everything right, and it is impressive that they are working so fast and so hard to fix the problems.

    Not only that, but there were workarounds for all 5 holes immediately. Four could be taken care of by turning off javascript, and the other could be fixed by modifying a line in one local html file. So I go without javascript for a couple of days until the fixed version comes out, boo-hoo. I am really glad that they implemented better pop-up blocking this time around (ala Moz), but am sad that I can't background skin my browser. Now I am just waiting for the the Linux version...

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  94. Re:7.01 not officially released! (YES IT IS) by gosand · · Score: 1
    Many people have noted before (concerning BSDs and the like) that files appearing at ftp sites do NOT mean it's officially released. Opera 7.01 is still not officially released, and the files might still change.

    I am using Opera 7.0, and the banner ad displaying right now in it is: Surf Safely - Opera 7.01s Now Available

    So I guess that makes it official. I think I am about to click my first banner ad ever. :-)

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  95. ObAdder reference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Prince George, it's not real. They're just acting.

  96. D'oh! Or is it? by gosand · · Score: 1
    I am using Opera 7.0, and the banner ad displaying right now in it is: Surf Safely - Opera 7.01s Now Available So I guess that makes it official. I think I am about to click my first banner ad ever. :-)

    D'oh! Here is what I got when I clicked the banner ad:

    Dear Internet User,
    You are receiving this error page due to a problem with the configuration of the advertisement javascript or html coding. This error is isolated to a specific site or site subsection. We apologize for any inconvience caused.

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

  97. Less than 24 hours? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So this is how the Open Source world can always come up with fixes so fast: Friday to Wednesday is "less than 24 hours".

    "According to Opera, GreyMagic only notified it of problems with Opera 7 on Friday afternoon (January 31)."

  98. Why I use Opera by nettarzan · · Score: 3, Informative

    First of all, let me make it clear that I would rather not pay for something if I can get it for free. Having said that the reasons I paid for Opera are:
    1.Tabs
    Say what you may about Knoq, phoenix having tabbed browsing. But Opera what the first and does now has even more tabbed features with ability to save tab sessions.
    2. Gestures:
    This is first to market and most elegant and intuitive gestures than the Moz plugin which caused me unpredicatable or inintentional behaviors with the gestures.
    3. Kickass Download manager
    The best download integration with browser. Stop start resume, etc,, With the new version you can download all the links in a page in just one operation.
    4. Memory and Speed:
    My normal usage takes only 20MB(I have 12 tabs open usually mostly java documentation that I can easily access) on minimizing it takes only 7MB.

    5. Search integration
    Believe it the searching google, amazon or ebay or your custom configuration is far superior to any browser out there.

    Only negative I have is the rendering of pages. For example Yahoo! Mail had pull down menu. But I can't get it to work in Opera given that Yahoo! is a megaplex on the web.

    So give it a try and you'll never turn back just I did.
    If it makes your life better thank Opera team and you'll be better for it.

    1. Re:Why I use Opera by sharkey · · Score: 1
      unpredicatable or inintentional behaviors with the gestures.

      Suggestion: Don't try predicating your gestures. Stick to predicating your verbs.

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
  99. Still did fix my yahoo problems by LifeDude · · Score: 1

    Sigh, Dang thing still crashes everytime I go to a yahoo news site.

    At least it has the decency to restart back in the last known good state. I really hope they get that on fixed soon. I love the browser just a few bugs left to fix.

  100. Users need to keep themselves informed by StupidKatz · · Score: 1

    Just like checking your oil/coolant in a vehicle on a regular basis, keeping an eye on security vulns in software you use is part of the responsibility of owning a computer and using it on a network.

    Failure to do any of the above results in job security for auto mechanics and "IT technicians", such as myself.

  101. Opera, please port to FreeBSD and NetBSD, we like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Opera 6 is the most responsive browser on NetBSD, that Ive ever used with 64mb ram (old laptop). I say, port to: FreeBSD and NetBSD. I currently use the Linux binary, however it sometimes aborts (like when checking yahoo mail). I am looking into using the FreeBSD binary, however a native port would be very handy, towards your cross platform availability also!