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If Archos could enable real-time encoding way back when and the current Nueros can enable now for less price, I really don't see why Apple doesn't offer it.

I have heard of gtkpod and it looks pretty cool. However, it is not an officially support software application from Apple. So if I were to use it and something happened to my iPod, do you think Apple would honor my warranty? I don't. I personally want to see an officially supported way to work with an iPod under Linux. Honestly, that is the only thing holding me back from buying an iPod. Oh and the fact that I need to connect an line-in into the device I buy and record. I record about 2 hours of content from the church I go to and I then convert that into audio CD for other members. Last I heard, the iPod does not allow one to record. That is why I personally am planning on getting an Neuros. It will work under Linux and MS Windows and also allow me to record content as MP3.

However, if currently the market is only going to give us locked-down DRM crap, I would at least want the DRM crap from a less-evil comany than MS. I personally do not own an iPOD and don't see myself buying one since any device I purchase next I will want it to work 100% with Linux. I was looking into a Neuros since it will work with Linux and support OGG and MP3, oh and has Open Source code.

However, if currently the market is only going to give us locked-down DRM crap, I would at least want the DRM crap from a less-evil comany than MS. I personally do not own an iPOD and don't see myself buying one since any device I purchase next I will want it to work 100% with Linux. I was looking into a Neuros since it will work with Linux and support OGG and MP3, oh and has Open Source code.

My portable player supports Ogg Vorbis. It has for more than a year. What rock are you living under?

Alternatively, when your Nomad dies, buy one of the ever-increasing number of Ogg Vorbis or multiple-format (including Ogg Vorbis) portable players. Many of the better players now support a range of formats; my personal favourite (if I had money to buy one at all or actually listened to music ever) would be the Neuros: plays about every format under the sun, the firmware is free software and regularly updated, USB 2.0, up to 160GB of disk space, records to FLAC, PCM (wave) or MP3, recieves and *broadcasts* FM radio, &c

Note that, AFAIK, no portable player can do Vorbis enocding (as it is very CPU intensive)--but it is being considered for the Neuros. You wouldn't generally want to encode in a lossy format on a portable player anyway.

The Neuros supports Ogg/Vorbis. They've also supported Linux users for years. Yeah, it's not the sleekest/smallest player available, but it works fine, and sounds better than many. No one said that supporting free software would be cheap!

OGG may not be the answer for everyone, but it certainly is the answer for a lot of us.

I love my (as my Apple-fanboy "friends" call it) fake iPod - not just because I can use open source firmware on it or that I can check out the schematics if I want, but mainly because it has features that competing products don't. Features I use everyday. Some of them are only there because this thing is so open, like the ogg/vorbis support. I'm so with you on this one.

Well, you're open source iPod is here (and kind of here, eh?). The PS2 got a Linux kit, and many handheld devices (such as cell phones) use embedded Linux. There is a LOT of effort being put into using open source software on such devices, I could see if being put to cameras.

What apple really understand is how to use a huge marketing budget well. Over the years since the iPod came out, they've made sure they got the maximum press publicity, amounting to many thousands of mentions; they've made sure that lots of cool people have been seen in public wearing iPods, in pop videos, TV appearances and elsewhere; and they've run a huge, award-winning advertising campaign ("silhouette"), that is probably one of the most recognizable of recent times. Fair play to them. Nothing wrong with running a good marketing campaign.
Most of Apple's rivals, such as Creative, iRiver and Rio are relatively small companies that don't have the budget for that kind of thing. Some of them don't understand cool: the styling of the iRiver products is based on traditional electronic gizmo styling, and compared to an iPod looks very uncool (but they're good on features). On the other hand, I think Creative do understand cool, and so do new entrants Neuros. This can be seen in the efforts they've put into the styling of their latest products. However, a large percentage of cool comes from the buzz you can create around your product, and nothing to do with the physical product itself. In that event, a small company that understands cool is always at a disadvantage against a big company that understands cool.
Sony is a big company that understands cool. The big problem for them is that their record company arm doesn't want their gadget arm to support MP3. After a struggle, it seems the gadget arm has won, and they've just released their first MP3-compatible HD player. There's a rather negative review by someone called "mavis" on the web, but most of the reviews on Amazon UK, where the product has been sold for a couple of weeks now, are very positive. It comes on sale in the US in February, so by late Spring, we'll be sure to know if Sony have created an "iPod killer". (Realistically, the word "killer" is inappropriate, since people like Sony and Creative are competing for a share of a growing market, not to destroy the iPod.)
Toshiba is another big company that understands cool. They have a product the could probably challenge Apple (the Gigabeat) on features and style, but they seem to have done a deal whereby they only sell it in Japan. (Toshiba make hard disks for the iPod, so it makes sense).
http://www.neurosaudio.com/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/10/12/preview_to sh_giga_60gb/
http://products.sony.co.uk/sony_nw-dh3.asp

And at least some of the Neuros devices play Ogg Vorbis files. For a while, Neuros was distributing the firmware to their devices at open.neurosaudio.com. They say:

Due to a potential licensing conflict with one of our vendors,we have temporarily suspended downloads of the Neuros firmware source code.

We expect to have this resolved shortly, please check back on open.neurosaudio.com for further updates.

They are still distributing specs for the hardware and source code for some supporting applications.

And at least some of the Neuros devices play Ogg Vorbis files. For a while, Neuros was distributing the firmware to their devices at open.neurosaudio.com. They say:

Due to a potential licensing conflict with one of our vendors,we have temporarily suspended downloads of the Neuros firmware source code.

We expect to have this resolved shortly, please check back on open.neurosaudio.com for further updates.

They are still distributing specs for the hardware and source code for some supporting applications.

And at least some of the Neuros devices play Ogg Vorbis files. For a while, Neuros was distributing the firmware to their devices at open.neurosaudio.com. They say:

Due to a potential licensing conflict with one of our vendors,we have temporarily suspended downloads of the Neuros firmware source code.

We expect to have this resolved shortly, please check back on open.neurosaudio.com for further updates.

They are still distributing specs for the hardware and source code for some supporting applications.

And it offers schematics for free & firmware for free! This is truly open-source device! Read more about it HERE!

Why Neuros is releasing the schematics for its device

The manufacturing world has changed dramatically in the nearly ten years since I started Digital Innovations. The tools for creating advanced designs have fallen in price to be accessible to virtually any engineer in his garage. Further, the globalization of the economy has put manufacturing tooling within the affordable range even for individual inventors. We all owe it to ourselves to understand the great entrepreneurial opportunity that this creates for all of us. Back in '95, new tools meant that we could bring the SkipDoctor to market for an amount small enough that it didn't require the involvement of professional investors. Today that would be a fraction even of that amount, and within the reach of personal savings for many individuals. Even if you don't consider yourself an entrepreneur, the new companies and products that these changes enable will create exciting opportunities for everyone that embraces them.

As exciting as these changes are, the real reason we at Neuros are releasing the schematics for our device are the more immediate implications these trends have for our business. In the nearly two years since the release of the Neuros, it's clear to see that what divides the winners from the losers in the audio device market is the details. From the UI to the synchronization to the feel of the buttons, it's the details even more than the features that set apart each device. While many companies eagerly protect their intellectual property, it's only a select few details that really distinguish one device from another. For innovators like Neuros, the standardization of the components that comprise a device allows us to focus on those few details that really distinguish the product.

Of course there are many good commercial software and middleware companies who chose to keep their software proprietary and indeed Neuros has benefited from the use of many of those products. But our experience over the last two years has convinced us that one of the best sources for 3rd party applications and tools is the open source community. As an example, the various forms of embedded Linux available today are mature and robust. Not only are they free from licensing fees, but more importantly they are usable without commercial contracts and the often elaborate negotiations and/or restrictions that go along with them. In fact, the defining open source principles guarantee that we are free to innovate with components, not at all a guarantee with some proprietary software.

By releasing the schematics for our device we hope to attract new developers and engineers and enhance our support for those who are already contributing to our device. In fact, in the two years since the release of the Neuros, we have already received and honored many requests for the schematics and benefited from the resulting modifications from hobbyists and professionals alike. Today's official public release is recognition and expansion of what has already been our practice for some time.

The release of such documentation is a relatively new practice and one that remains quite controversial, much of the concerns similar in nature to the ones raised years ago when open source licenses were new. In the future we believe such practices will become more and more common, particularly for products facing end of life. The restrictions on the use of such documentation will vary greatly as more and more companies experiment under different circumstances. But the overall effect, we believe, will be greater comfort levels over time and the significant advance of products and technology resulting from the more open flow of information.

The schematics can be downloaded from
http://open.neurosaudio.com/extra/NeurosSche matics .zip

So reply if you know: what hard-drive based mp3 players have hackable source or open source firmware replacements

Neuros comes in flash and/or harddrive versions up to 80GB. It supports MP3 and Ogg Vorbis. It can listen and capture FM radio, and it can broadcast FM radio.

The source for the firmware is OSS. So is the source for the Synch Manager, the DB manipulator -- even the schematics.

And it is affordable.

The Neuros has open firmware, hardware, and software. You currently have to download a trial version of TI's compiler for their DSP, but last I knew there was an effort underway to get a gcc target written for it.

Start here to find out more about its open-sourceness.

The Neuros has open firmware, hardware, and software. You currently have to download a trial version of TI's compiler for their DSP, but last I knew there was an effort underway to get a gcc target written for it.

Start here to find out more about its open-sourceness.

not so available

You mean like a Neuros or the now EOL'ed Nomad Jukebox 3? I use a NJB3 and it's great!

I have owned a Neuros Digital Audio Computer for a few months now. It DOES perform line-level (as well as from the built-in microphone or from FM radio) recording to MP3 and WAV formats. It also plays WAV, MP3, OGG and WMA formats. Not as compact as iPod, but WAY more powerful, IMO.

See NeurosAudio.com

System Requirements
OS: Microsoft® Windows 98SE/Me/2000/XP

HUH?!?

Open source, open firmware, schematics... but Windows-only software support?

I'm just going to assume that's misleading/incorrect somehow, it probably works like any USB storage class device, but... how odd that they list only Windows OS support...

spent about five minutes browsing their homepage and learned all this. The only thing I couldn't seem to find was the price... (^_^) Back I go!

Click on the little shopping cart beside the product on the product page.

How was your experience jogging with the HD? In my experience HD based players tend to skip when I run, due to the jolt when my feet hit the ground.

That's what the Neuros flash backpack is used for. The design totally rocks, you have a single player that can have a hard drive backpack for normal use, then switch to the flash backpack for doing high impact activities.

Aha. I was looking at their site just yesterday, and looked no further than their FAQ entry that still says it's coming in 2003.

I guess they should update that, one day.

spec

and I would expect FLAC support from these guys sooner than Apple or anyone else for that matter

they already have an 80G drive model

I'd really like to get a portable MP3 player for use at work, on airplanes, etc. But I just haven't seen anything that even meets my bare minimum requirements:

1) Must play Oggs
2) Must work with Linux
3) Must be durable and reliable
4) Must have at least 20GB

Ideally, I'd like to have a player that has the following features:

5) Can upgrade hard drive to larger capacity, using a standard (laptop probably) hard drive, not an overpriced special-order one from the manufacturer
6) Can connect to home network by ethernet
7) Can connect to stereo with SPDIF and RCA jacks
8) Doesn't require funky, annoying software to transfer new files (though optional software for extra functionality is ok, as long as it runs on Linux). As an addendum to this, can be used as generic HDD storage device when connected via USB.

1-5 and kinda 8 are met by Neuros. I have a 40GB one 1st gen one and am quite happy (although if I waited a few months I could have gotten the 2nd gen one...). I use linux exclusively and all of my CDs are ripped to OGGs. I use ndbm to sync. I am 99% sure you need some kind of software to sync, but you can just mount the drive and put other files on it for the generic HDD part of 8.

This guy knows all about 5 and can do it for you.

Shit, I have SIX. And I'm happily enjoying each of them.

I have a 20GB HDD unit and five 128MB flash units. I take them to conferences and use them for voice audio recording. One 128MB flash unit recording 160Kpbs MP3s will record for close to 90 minutes.

The 20GB unit is for recording 48Khz WAVs of live music.

I use them professionally and although they have a few odd behaviors, they are overall very solid and excellent little mobile recorders. And they beat out Mini-Disc handily imho.

Lastly, the firmware is now free speech software.

Digital Innovations has done a good job. A very good job. Clicky.

First of all, the iRiver iHP-120 will eaily pull 17 hours playing MP3s. It's a hard drive based player. It only gets about 11 hours with OOGs. This is my experience with a new one.

Secondly, there is a player that does what you want. Over a year ago it was mentioned frequently here on /., although the news has been quiet recently. It's the Neuros player.

Here we go...


JoeBorn
Neuros Audio Team
Administrator

Posted - 10/26/2004 : 5:48:50 PM

It's true we sold the mark to XM a month or two ago. It wasn't that important a mark for us and they were willing to pay, so we said what the heck, more money for product development.

I believe that the people at neurosaudio might take issue with that "MyFi" name, since it is their trademark according to their fact sheet.

Read about the feature here

I believe that the people at neurosaudio might take issue with that "MyFi" name, since it is their trademark according to their fact sheet.

Read about the feature here

I believe that the people at neurosaudio might take issue with that "MyFi" name, since it is their trademark according to their fact sheet.

Read about the feature here

*cough*RIPOFF*Cough*

Sure the name of the Neuros MyFi means something else, but sheesh it doesn't take by one google search.

Hell for 399 bucks you could get a neuros that will (finally) do timed recording with a 40gb hd and all the niceness of having linux in your.... backpack. The thing is freakin huge but XM didn't even bother to be original in the naming of their Ipod wannabe.

Well how about a built in fm tuner, support for OGG Vorbis, FLAC soon, Open Source Firmware, etc.

And hey, maybe I don't feel like paying $200 more for a feature I might use once or twice. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has never even considered "Damn, if only my music player had a camera!"

I don't think that being a programmer automatically makes you more apt at poker, since playing good poker is just as much about reading players as it is about calculating odds. BUT...

I know of at least 2 exceptional professional poker players with extensive computer background: Chris "Jesus" Ferguson has a PhD in computer science, and you'll often hear him talking about how his studies in game theory have helped him at the poker table (and I'm thinking he's right, since he won the WSOP main event in 2000). Also, Barry Greenstein (he's also got 2 WSOP bracelets, iirc - neither were main event wins) is a former programmer who worked for Symantec for about 12 years through the mid-90's. As a side note, he donates every penny of his tournament winnings to charity (and I've seen him win over $1 million at a WPT event).

I've been playing poker for about 6 months now (pretty seriously, been competing in tournaments and reading some of the classic poker books), and I consider myself to be fairly accomplished (poker paid for my neuros audio computer, so I must be somewhat OK), and I'd have to say that being a programmer has helped a great deal with getting better.

As I said, being a good poker player has just as much to do with being able to understand your opponent as it does with being able to count outs and figure oods on the spot. If you can get a dead read on the guy you're in the pot with, you're in better shape than if you've got 24 outs post flop because if you know what he's holding, there's no stopping you.

A tapedeck adapter won't work in my car. It spits the tape back out and displays the message, "Broken Tape." A misfeature if there ever was one. I got a Neuros, which plays ogg and has a built-in FM transmitter.

The neuros supports ogg with a firmware upgrade, and has "MyFi" which lets you play your tunes through a separate radio. Set the station you want in the neuros, tune your car radio to that station, press play on the neuros and you're set. The 20 gb drive for the neuros is also pretty handy--all your albums, right there in your car.

Removable hard drive standard. Which could fit anything from a USB Flash Drive to a clam shell HD unit of your choosing.

Granted the power consumption would be awsome, but there is room for a "Little" more weight here considering that the cam is toughted at the size of a cell phone.

Now when can I expect to be able to write my own code for this thing?

Get a Neuros. You can record from FM, the built in mic, or the line in jack. You have the option to record in 4 different MP3 and 3 different WAV quality settings. You also have the option of using a hard drive based backpack in sizes from 20GB - 80GB or using the 128MB or 256MB flash memory backpack.

Not only that, but the customer support is phenominal, the user community is active and very helpful, the firmware is open source, and there are 4 (count 'em!) open source synchronization managers to choose from.

I'd like to find an MP3 player, HD based or replacement memory sticks (SD, xD, whatever), that has the ability to record using a built in microphone and an FM tuner. A microphone jack would be a plus.

The Neuros Audio Computers are incredibly sweet, and smartly designed. How smartly designed?

* The firmware is open source right from the developers. It's also Linux friendly as a storage device, and there's an open-source sync manager for putting on songs into the database.
* It plays the usual formats plus Ogg/Vorbis. Records in WAV and MP3 off the internal mic, or there's a line-in plug.
* It's modular. Pop the controller out and plug it in to a bigger (or just different) hard drive, or a flash memory cradle, while keeping all your settings.
* It broadcasts FM without fancy add-ons.
* The playlist manager isn't bad either. Reads ID3 tag info, sorts by title, album, genre, etc. I think it even pays attention to ReplayGain info.
* 6 different bookmarks available at the touch of a button.
* A hard-lockout switch to freeze the controls without navigating a menu.
* A decent battery replacement policy.

In fact, the only downside to this audio gem that I can find is that I bought it... for my wife.

The Neuros http://www.neurosaudio.com/ 20 GB hard drive player costs $249, supports Ogg Vorbis, Linux, has open-source firmware, several open-source synch managers, has a 90-day labor and 1-year parts warranty, a built-in FM modulator, and a modular backpack architecture so if you want to go running with it, you can swap to a flash backpack.

Oh yeah, and there's an active developer community around the open-source firmware and sync managers.

A Neuros is a cheaper, but not as cool-looking, alternative to an iPod. For $250 you get 20 GB and an FM transmitter. And it plays .ogg. Hide it under the seat and blindly hit the pause button whenever you get out.

A belt clip on an iPod/iRiver/Dell DJ will let you walk out without stashing it. But those require a separate FM transmitter thingy (and a budget for AAA cells).

"Any recorded broadcast can be transferred to an iPod or any other AIFF-compatible digital music player to replay on the go."

I would rather have one of these opensource firmware mp3 player w/ radio reception / transmission

I have a Neuros and its far from just an "MP3 Player". My Neuros plays MP3's, Ogg Vorbis, WAV, and even the dreadful WMA files...

I hate when people call it an "MP3 Player".

<shameless plug>

If you haven't looked the Neuros, you don't know what you are missing. It's the perfect player for the geek in you. Recently they have open sourced the Firmware, allowing us hackers to have our way with it.

</shameless plug>

their selection is still small. the unreleased and worst of all your favorite artists (plus those annoying interview discs), and peole you haven't heard of yet (some of which, trust me, you're better off without experiencing.)

I got my membership, one month free when I bought my neuros in March of '04. I just recently canceled it, because I felt I wasn't getting $9.99 out of the service per month. Canceling was a breeze though, not like the usual - find your reg id that was sent to you months ago, blah blah. It was simple.

Sorry, that's Neuros.

http://open.neurosaudio.com/
http://www.neurosaudio.com/

http://open.neurosaudio.com/
http://www.neurosaudio.com/