Domain: openprinting.org
Stories and comments across the archive that link to openprinting.org.
Comments · 39
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Re:So, let me get this straight...
Did you check here
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Bad surprises
The better multi-function printers and copiers support a few different options for transferring scans, such as sending to email or FTP or a Samba share. Again, if you buy cheap crap, then you get what you paid for.
And then sometimes you have bad surprises.
We've bought a network connected Cannon i-SENSYS mf8550Cdw Laserprinter/Scanner multifunction. (with support for Google Print and Air Print)
In my opinion Cannon is supposed to be a more or less reliable brandname.Big surprise:
the thing doesn't speak Postscript.It only speaks UFR (an obscure proprietary format of Cannon) for which the drivers are a bit PITA to get to compile (cannon provides a mixed binary and source-code components)
and PCL - for which luckily there's a driver, requiring only to manually craft a PPD (sorry, no links yet).Note that, Mac OS X is similarily left in the dust (the official Canon driver fails to install, I can't get pxlcolor to work), luckily at leat AirPrint seems to work (and let the printer's firmware rasterize the PDF documents).
Google Print still doesn't function - the steps described in the manual just fail.
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Re:Yet another YOTLD estimate
I can only surmise from your comment that you must be using a distro like Suse or Fedora, which is the source of your problems. Suse I've used on and off over the years, and never have been happy with them. Just questionable decisions with regard to configuration, setup utilities, and buggy interfaces. Fedora is definitely not a desktop distro. Every time I give it a try, I run into some kind of ridiculous problem (crashy, graphics artifacts, broken packages) within the first couple of weeks. So if you really want a desktop distro, what you need is Ubuntu. It's the only distro, out of hundreds, that is really focused on desktop usability, and that is why people like me stick with it despite things like unity-lens-shopping. There just isn't a good alternative, or at least I haven't found one. With Ubuntu, most of your list goes away:
1) No RTFM on the ubuntuforums. I have never seen it.
2) No dependency hell. Ever. And the PPA respoitories are nice when you are looking for custom packages.
3) No binary blob or proprietary codec war. In older versions of Ubuntu these were opt-in, but now they are installed by default. So everything works pretty well out of the box.
4) For SAMBA, what is it you are trying to do? File sharing is pretty easy to setup in Ubuntu. If you are looking to join a domain, then SADMS is what you are looking for.As for your other list:
1) What kind of RAW support do you need. Darktable supports pretty much everything.
2) Adobe yes, well, you can say the same thing about MS Office or any other proprietary software. Adobe isn't going to sink the development cost into supporting linux when the market just isn't there. So you'll just have to dual-boot for this if you really need it. Ditto for games.
3) Your embroidery software has a reasonably good chance of working with Wine. I've managed to get a number of simple Windows applications to work this way.
4) iPhone agreed. This is due to Apple suckiness mostly, though. The protocol has to be reverse-engineered to get it to work on linux. It's being worked on, but progress is slow.
5) Bravo SE, seems like they have some kind of linux support, but again, without the market they don't have the pressure to make it work. The upside is they do seem to have an SDK, so an interested linux developer could take it up as a project.
6) Which printer? A number of Brother printers are supported.
7) Silverlight? Don't expect MS to cooperate on this. They could and it would work with minimal effort, but they won't. -
Re:Only root?
When trying a new distro, I usually judge its usability in how easy it is to install a printer and then print to it. That's generally my canary. And also: http://www.openprinting.org/printers
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Re:Only root?
Setting up Linux to print to any decent office printer is usually a very simple affair: just find the printer, then select the manufacturer and model from the huge lists provided by CUPS, and off you go. Whether it's an HP LaserJet, a Ricoh, a Xerox, etc., it can print to any of these things. But a $30 piece of shit inkjet? Forget it
Here's a $30 printer that works perfectly under Linux, not that I've tried this particular one. It's more a matter of brand than price, some companies just have shit support and others are quite good.
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Re:Printer?
"I was uneasy when I first noticed that Apple had taken ownership of CUPS, and in this case my experience is that that disquiet is justified."
As a Gnu/Linux and Mac OS X user (with an ever growing tendency towards Linux and FOSS) I have been looking forward to this moment as well.
Now that Apple's decided to fork CUPS eventually, we don't have to be too interested in what their fork's fate will be in the future, do we?
Little Red Riding Hood will come to our rescue here
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-January/161306.htmland so will
http://www.openprinting.org/ -
Re:Adoption...
So what's my recourse once I use a live distribution and the test ends up resulting in failure?
Try another one. If Ubuntu doesn't, try Fedora, and vice versa. If those don't work try other ones.
Google linux printer cheap ink pulls up this comment, which claims that Kodak's printers don't work with CUPS on Linux
One of your problems is that you're too literal and your reading comprehension sucks. You go about finding info in an overly baroque way that often gets you outdated info...like that blog post, dated 2009. You could have gone to Kodak's website, checked their current models and then gone to openprinting to check compatibility. There you would have found about
http://www.openprinting.org/driver/c2esp
I took Kodak's little quiz and the printers it recommended to me, work with that driver.
So HP works with Linux but has expensive ink, while Kodak has more affordable ink but works only with non-free operating systems.
Well, you could always pick up an older Laserjet, cheap, that's what I did (I have a LaserJet 1200), since I rarely need color output. And if I do, I can print to the the PSC 1315. One can also refill cartridges, either personally or take them to someplace like Walgreens and save money.
Also if a company does support Linux, shouldn't we show our appreciation for that company?
Is this a tradeoff that one must accept just because, cheap ink or Linux support, never both, just like indie or local multiplayer, never both?
There are always tradeoffs, you're never going to get EVERYTHING you want.
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Re:not a bargain
I think it's time that Congress look into market collusion and racketeering.
Kodak is supposed to have competitive ink prices. The only thing that is keeping me from buying one is the paperweight status of most of the Linux drivers.
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Re:SamsungSame here... I just bought a Samsung ML-2851ND for $150 through microcenter.com after reading a bunch of reviews, usually starting with CNET
It does 1200x1200dpi and automatic duplexing, which is better than any of the even remotely affordable color lasers I'm glad I didn't get a bigger laser printer... even with this one the lights dim and the UPS clicks on momentarily whenever I turn it on or when it warms up to start a print job.
I originally wanted to go the multifunction route, and spent a long time jumping between the Linux printer compatibility list and the http://www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html">SANE compatibility list. Hardly any multifunction device was supported at all by both
:/If you're looking to go multifunction as well with a color inkjet (which supposedly does a better job with color prints than color laser printers) and a scanner, it looks like some of the Canon PIXMA line seems to have anything going for it as far as Linux support. No personal experience with it, though we might eventually get one to complement the B&W laser.
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Re:Almost competing
There are a lot of myths like that.
The one clearly shown to be false is that Linux works on more legacy hardware than Windows.
In fact, the Ubuntu repository servers were hacked because the version of Ubuntu they ran was very, very out of date. The reason they couldn't update it? Support for their hardware was dropped in the more recent updates.
The truth is, you can get -a- version of Linux to work on just about anything, but you cannot get the most recent version of Linux to work on everything without adding your own drivers and re-compiling the kernel. Oddly enough, Windows and OSX are the same way (though you don't get to re-compile those kernels, you don't need to). Huh, imagine that.
The next time someone tries to feed you the line of bull that Linux works with more hardware, just show them the list of printers compatible with Linux. Recognize that every single one of them works 100% with Windows. They'll tell you it's the manufacturer's fault for not writing drivers, right after they tell you drivers are unnecessary because it's all included in the kernel.
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Re:Sign me up...
They say "Linux is a self help solution. There are no step-by-step tutorials provided, and help documentation is limited.
These remarks are easily proven false, by demonstrating the large volume of step-by-step tutorials and help documentation that are available.
They are completely correct, actually. Vista attempts to fix any problems that come up automagically. Sometimes it fails, but for most things it works, and it is kind of impressive. It will even go so far as searching the MS knowlegebase for a solution and apply it if it finds one. Though when it does fail they tend to give you shit for troubleshooting codes, so I wouldn't say it is perfect by any stretch.
It is automatic though, and there sure as hell isn't anything automatic about fixing a problem in Linux. That's definitely not falsifiable. Man pages are shit, by the way, have you ever tried fixing a linux problem when you didn't have internet access and a wealth of personal Linux knowledge? I have, it sucks. Doable, but sucks.
This is easily falsifiable by showing the large number of printers that Linux drivers are available for, the small number that drivers are unavailable for. And also showing the large number of printers Linux has drivers for that don't work in Windows 7 / Vista.
This seems to tell a different story. You're statement is somewhat correct if you only look at printers listed under partially working, unknown, or paperweights. If you include all the printers that don't have 100% Linux support, the picture changes dramatically. Just a quick glance and I'd guess less than half of the printers on that list work correctly. The 25% figure is probably a stretch, and they may be intentionally using an old figure, lying bastards that they are, but it still does not paint a pretty picture for Linux when Vista supports 99% of these. Printers that don't work in Vista / Windows 7 are few and far between. Not so for Linux. There is a reason for that, and it's stacked in MS's favor, but that doesn't change what reality is.
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Re:Try Datamax
Perhaps you could provide some information to Open printing? That would be helpful, thanks in advance...
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Re:Can't you...
Open Printing is your friend,
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Re:Now If We Could Just Get ...
Uuuuhhhh, dude, nobody actually INSTALLS Windows, you know that, right? It comes on your computer and if it breaks you put in those nice shiny restore disks or you take it to some guy like me. So your argument makes no sense, as the average home user is NOT going to be "installing" an OS. This is EXACTLY what I was talking about as "typical geek think" as YOU see no problem in reinstalling an OS when it breaks you think THEY will do the same.
And you can't honestly be sitting here and telling us you didn't do ANY research before you bought your equipment to insure it would work in your distro, are you? Because that mantra is pretty much preached by even the most hardcore Linux fanboy. That is taught for a reason BTW, it is because if you don't you get burned. The Windows user doesn't get burned. You know why? It is because Windows has a stable ABI and it takes a grand total of 3 drivers to support ALL versions of Windows-past, present, and future. All you need is a 98/ME, and Win2K/XP and a Vista/7 and you are good. Trying to support Linux with drivers is like trying to hit a dartboard with a live bumblebee. Since you use Kubuntu, go to their forums right after a release. See how many people there are complaining because the latest version (released in an insane 6 month release schedule) broke some piece of hardware? The underpinnings are simply being changed too quickly to make writing stable functional drivers for Linux anything but a nightmare. That is why enterprise gear has "certified for Red Hat version X" so you know the EXACT version that it will run on.
But of course home users DON'T do research-they buy on price and specs. They walk into Walmart and go "This says it does what I want at a good price" and they put it in their cart. That simple. Only in Linux it ain't that simple, is it? Look at this list go on, look. See how many paperweights there are? Notice how pretty much the ENTIRE X and Z series, which are the most popular printers and all in one carried by the big retail chains, don't actually work? If I wanted to sit here and Google it for you I can come up with list after list just like that. It is because all the money is being spent by the likes of Red Hat and Novell on supporting server hardware, while pretty much squat is being spent on consumer gear. How is suspend and resume working on that laptop for you? Not very good I bet. Again it is because nobody is bothering to spend the money.
The first stage on the road to recovery is admitting you have a problem. And all those Linux fans that want it to succeed on the desktop DO have a problem, you just don't want to admit it. The lack of a stable ABI makes it too expensive for most manufacturers to write drivers for. The fact that there is such hostility for closed source binary blobs is another. Finally all the money is being spent to support and maintain server hardware while the Linux world expects all those thousands of consumer drivers to be magically written and maintained by some guy in his basement out of the goodness of his heart. But your system is fatally flawed and broken. Please quit complaining that manufacturers should write drivers for your unstable platform or give you the specs to their hardware. It is never ever gonna happen. If you want it done you are gonna have to shell out the bucks to have it done. And please don't bring up the "repositories are better" BS, because they suck. It might be better for geeks, but when a home user types "gimp" and gets dozens of packages named gimp your system sucks. CnR is the right way to go. Lots of screenshots and simple descriptions with an "install now" button.
Admit you have a problem. Accept it. Demand a stable ABI. Demand the acceptance of binary blobs. Demand that the large corps like Novell and Red Hat quit taking from the community and only giving back to the server market. But until these things are fixed you will just have to accept the fact that there is a REASON why Linux has a
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Re:Now If We Could Just Get ...
Uh, Ubuntu 9.04? And no offensive, but what fucking third world country are you living in that they sell non hot copies of Windows for $12? Dude they HAVE to give you Linux, because pretty much all the major software is written for the USA and the western EU and they probably don't support you. So hell if I was in that situation with the major powers acting like I didn't exist I'd try to roll my own too.
And did you see this list? Look, take a VERY good fucking look before you call FUD. you should pay special attention to the paperweights, notice how many there are? And pay close attention to the x and z series. Which column are they in? Paperweights, you say? Guess what the most popular selliers are at Walmart and Staples? Guess what series all in one I'm staring at right now? Guess which all in one is in at LEAST a half a dozen apartments on this floor alone, and were not influenced by me in any way, shape or form? The x1270, that's what. And don't go "Aha! It also has a partially down there for the X1270!" yes I know, and they should be fucking ashamed of themselves for putting in there. To paraphrase one of the earlier posters it is some hacked all to fuck mess that needs a couple of recompiles, hours of tweaking and futzing and then IF and only IF you are VERY lucky, you can kinda sorta get it to print B&W when it isn't crashing like an old DOS TSR.
So while I'm happy that in whatever little tropical paradise(I at least hope its warm) is some sort of FLOSS heaven, I have to deal with reality in the good old US of A. Here I got to watch the margins, watch the competition, and try to give my customers the best experience for their shopping dollars that I can. Considering that I've got boxes 4 feet high just waiting for the customers to pick up their brand new XP machines I must be doing something right. And I can tell you without the slightest bit of FUD or exaggeration that for my customers here in the good old USA that Linux is NOT ready for the home users. Too much home gear simply don't work. Sorry, that is just the way it is.
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Re:Now If We Could Just Get ...
Who modded this up?
Let me give you a hint, paperweight status means it doesn't work at all... and that's just one manufacturer. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you aren't a laptop user either. Suspend still doesn't work a significant portion of the time and support for Atheros wireless chipsets has only recently gotten usable, Ralink is average, and Broadcom is still a pile of shit (even with the STA driver.)
Then you've got stuff like Marvell controllers where the Linux driver can either do SATA or PATA, but not both.
2009 called, it wants to know what you've been smoking. Linux hardware support has certainly improved, but it still sucks.
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Re:He has a point about linux
You are probably right about the cheap Lexmark's. Although a quick look at openprinting.org shows plenty of supported Lexmark's. I imagine all of the "paperweights" are the cheap or all-in-ones you mentioned.
However, all things considered, I would say Linux has fantastic printing support. Far more than just "business network lasers." The problem with the cheap Lexmark's is that they use a proprietary printer language (not PS or PCL). The Foomatic printer drivers provide a way to support these languages, but if someone has to reverse engineer it, it can take a while. The upside is if you reverse engineer it once, you can usually support a whole class of printers (ex: hpijs driver for many HP printers). If Lexmark were more cooperative, this might happen faster (the reason hpijs exists is because HP wrote it).
As for a "GDIwrapper", GDI+ is an entire graphics subsystem. It is not trivial to write a wrapper. That said, it looks like the Mono project has a library to convert GDI+ to Cairo. That puts you about halfway to a GDIwrapper for printing. You still need an EMF backend for Cairo, and you would want to be independent of Mono, which may or may not be a simple matter. Maybe somebody can take this on and solve the "Winprinter" problem.
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Re:Want!
Oh, and to answer your printer question:
http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Epson-Stylus_CX5400
http://www.linuxprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Epson-Stylus_Photo_R1800
http://www.openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi?make=KONICA+MINOLTAEpson and Minolta only support Windows and Mac OSX.
Bullshit:
http://www.linux.com/feature/113738
"The Epson America website directs you to Epson Kowa for Linux drivers for their printers, including one for the CX5400. You can download their GPLd binaries and source code from here."
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Re:Tell that to Lexmark
Samsung works good. They have Linux drivers but they are not needed, open source drivers works great.
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Re:FINALLY!HP? HP has there hplip and hpijs and they work fine. Which HP printer have you had trouble with? HP looks pretty good but there's still some on the paperweight/unknown list.
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Re:Slightly offtopic question
You sure about that? According to Open Printing the current and development releases of Gutenprint support it O.K enough for most uses.
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Re:Hope my issues with Fedora are solvedI will recount my I had trouble with the last Fedora Distro.
I bought myself a second hand Samsung ML-2510 printer that Samsung touted as "supported" under some Linux kernel version and later. You are not the only person that seems to have trouble with the binary drivers, look here:
http://www.openprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Samsung-ML-2510_parallel_with_Samsung_PPD
http://www.openprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Samsung-ML-2510
There seems to be some workaround though, so it should work.
Anyway, http://www.openprinting.org/ is a good place to start regarding printing support.
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Regards -
Re:Hope my issues with Fedora are solvedI will recount my I had trouble with the last Fedora Distro.
I bought myself a second hand Samsung ML-2510 printer that Samsung touted as "supported" under some Linux kernel version and later. You are not the only person that seems to have trouble with the binary drivers, look here:
http://www.openprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Samsung-ML-2510_parallel_with_Samsung_PPD
http://www.openprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Samsung-ML-2510
There seems to be some workaround though, so it should work.
Anyway, http://www.openprinting.org/ is a good place to start regarding printing support.
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Regards -
Re:Hope my issues with Fedora are solvedI will recount my I had trouble with the last Fedora Distro.
I bought myself a second hand Samsung ML-2510 printer that Samsung touted as "supported" under some Linux kernel version and later. You are not the only person that seems to have trouble with the binary drivers, look here:
http://www.openprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Samsung-ML-2510_parallel_with_Samsung_PPD
http://www.openprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Samsung-ML-2510
There seems to be some workaround though, so it should work.
Anyway, http://www.openprinting.org/ is a good place to start regarding printing support.
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Regards -
Re:Hope my issues with Fedora are solved
Check here http://openprinting.org/show_printer.cgi?recnum=Samsung-2510
also, do an lsusb to ensure the printer appears -
Re:Is this real? - Umm yes
The good news is that your printer has Postscript 3 emulation, so it is will work. You might have a bit of trouble getting the duplexer to do the right thing, but it will work.
In fact a quick perusal of openprinting.org shows that you've got yourself a very nice printer that is well supported by Free Software. It's just new enough that Foomatic doesn't include it in its database yet.
Good luck.
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Re:Try understanding the issue.
Possible this stuff falls into the "out of date" category, but if not, that's precisely the kind of information that does exist for printers:
http://www.openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi?make=Brother -
Re:Let me think...
No equivolent of pricegrabber in your country?
I don't know about his country. In my country, what you'll learn from this kind of tools (once you click an entry and go read the details) is that the only way to pay less than 700$ is: to buy an "upgrade" version (thus it requires having paid the "wad of cash" the previous time) and the reduction isn't big ($700 > $500).
OEM version still cost more than alternative OSes ($700 > $250).
That's in addition of what you'll have to pay Microsoft Office (and maybe a couple of other software like Visual Studio, Paintshop, etc.)
All this for functionality that Linux gives you free (and often dressed in a nice user friendly GUI that hides away all the low level cmd-line, at least with Ubuntu and OpenSUSE)You're lucky then. Printers are notorious for not working on Linux; wlan is hit or miss.
WTF ? Most of the laser printers will understand Postscript any way.
The most popular brand in the shops around here (HP, Epson, Brother) have almost all of their printers supported out of the box.
For the rest, there are nice website like Linux Printing to help you pick a working printer.
Usually the few more problematic printers are those from less known asian brands. In most case, these printers are also problematic in windows, because of crap-quality drivers and/or because it stops functioning once you upgrade Windows because the parent company either doesn't provide more recent drivers or went out of business by the time.Again I have to disagree. Gimp doesn't replace PS, OOo doesn't replace Office, etc. If by "high quality software build environment" you mean a command line compiler and vi, then yes. Does it come with anything else though? Netbeans? Eclipse? Last time i used linux, the answer was no, and I can get those some tools on windows as well.
They are not exactly equivalent. But GIMP and OpenOffice.org provide enough functionality so most of users can get rid of the corresponding commercial application.
As for programming Linux has the widest set of tools, starting from cmd-line+editor driven one like emacs or vi (and once you get hang of them they can really be powerful, specially given the kitchen-sink-scriptability of emacs) up to very nice graphical environment like eclipse (a lot of people are able to pull serious work out of it) kdevelop (Default on most KDE-based installation. I'm playing around with it and liking it, provides everything I need) anjuta, etc.
or even curiosity like SetEdit (for the nostalgic of the Borland's early "Turbo" era).
Just think for a second : If Visual Studio was this state-of-the-art "nothing is as good as this" environment ? Why doesn't it happen that most developer cross compile their linux creations from VMware image with Windows+Visual ? Whereas it happens that some of the Linux developer that make multiplatform software do cross-compile to Windows using their usual tools and Cygnus or MingW ? There's a big programming culture around Linux, and they have built tools that have evolved with them. Some are more cryptic like Emacs, other much more easy to start working in.
Linux gives you access to thousands of libraries all providing a lot of useful technologies. Keep in mind that any component, even the smallest, that you see on your linux installation, comes with it's source code, and you could play around with it - provided the necessary coding skill, like the PDF rendering ability ? Poppler is included with it's -devels. Want to put some SVG ? Access Videos ? Whatever else ? The libs are here at your finger tips.
Making a SVG-to-PDF converter is nothing more complicated than gluing together a couple of components (SVG, Cai -
Re:Let me think...
No equivolent of pricegrabber in your country?
I don't know about his country. In my country, what you'll learn from this kind of tools (once you click an entry and go read the details) is that the only way to pay less than 700$ is: to buy an "upgrade" version (thus it requires having paid the "wad of cash" the previous time) and the reduction isn't big ($700 > $500).
OEM version still cost more than alternative OSes ($700 > $250).
That's in addition of what you'll have to pay Microsoft Office (and maybe a couple of other software like Visual Studio, Paintshop, etc.)
All this for functionality that Linux gives you free (and often dressed in a nice user friendly GUI that hides away all the low level cmd-line, at least with Ubuntu and OpenSUSE)You're lucky then. Printers are notorious for not working on Linux; wlan is hit or miss.
WTF ? Most of the laser printers will understand Postscript any way.
The most popular brand in the shops around here (HP, Epson, Brother) have almost all of their printers supported out of the box.
For the rest, there are nice website like Linux Printing to help you pick a working printer.
Usually the few more problematic printers are those from less known asian brands. In most case, these printers are also problematic in windows, because of crap-quality drivers and/or because it stops functioning once you upgrade Windows because the parent company either doesn't provide more recent drivers or went out of business by the time.Again I have to disagree. Gimp doesn't replace PS, OOo doesn't replace Office, etc. If by "high quality software build environment" you mean a command line compiler and vi, then yes. Does it come with anything else though? Netbeans? Eclipse? Last time i used linux, the answer was no, and I can get those some tools on windows as well.
They are not exactly equivalent. But GIMP and OpenOffice.org provide enough functionality so most of users can get rid of the corresponding commercial application.
As for programming Linux has the widest set of tools, starting from cmd-line+editor driven one like emacs or vi (and once you get hang of them they can really be powerful, specially given the kitchen-sink-scriptability of emacs) up to very nice graphical environment like eclipse (a lot of people are able to pull serious work out of it) kdevelop (Default on most KDE-based installation. I'm playing around with it and liking it, provides everything I need) anjuta, etc.
or even curiosity like SetEdit (for the nostalgic of the Borland's early "Turbo" era).
Just think for a second : If Visual Studio was this state-of-the-art "nothing is as good as this" environment ? Why doesn't it happen that most developer cross compile their linux creations from VMware image with Windows+Visual ? Whereas it happens that some of the Linux developer that make multiplatform software do cross-compile to Windows using their usual tools and Cygnus or MingW ? There's a big programming culture around Linux, and they have built tools that have evolved with them. Some are more cryptic like Emacs, other much more easy to start working in.
Linux gives you access to thousands of libraries all providing a lot of useful technologies. Keep in mind that any component, even the smallest, that you see on your linux installation, comes with it's source code, and you could play around with it - provided the necessary coding skill, like the PDF rendering ability ? Poppler is included with it's -devels. Want to put some SVG ? Access Videos ? Whatever else ? The libs are here at your finger tips.
Making a SVG-to-PDF converter is nothing more complicated than gluing together a couple of components (SVG, Cai -
Re:Let me think...
No equivolent of pricegrabber in your country?
I don't know about his country. In my country, what you'll learn from this kind of tools (once you click an entry and go read the details) is that the only way to pay less than 700$ is: to buy an "upgrade" version (thus it requires having paid the "wad of cash" the previous time) and the reduction isn't big ($700 > $500).
OEM version still cost more than alternative OSes ($700 > $250).
That's in addition of what you'll have to pay Microsoft Office (and maybe a couple of other software like Visual Studio, Paintshop, etc.)
All this for functionality that Linux gives you free (and often dressed in a nice user friendly GUI that hides away all the low level cmd-line, at least with Ubuntu and OpenSUSE)You're lucky then. Printers are notorious for not working on Linux; wlan is hit or miss.
WTF ? Most of the laser printers will understand Postscript any way.
The most popular brand in the shops around here (HP, Epson, Brother) have almost all of their printers supported out of the box.
For the rest, there are nice website like Linux Printing to help you pick a working printer.
Usually the few more problematic printers are those from less known asian brands. In most case, these printers are also problematic in windows, because of crap-quality drivers and/or because it stops functioning once you upgrade Windows because the parent company either doesn't provide more recent drivers or went out of business by the time.Again I have to disagree. Gimp doesn't replace PS, OOo doesn't replace Office, etc. If by "high quality software build environment" you mean a command line compiler and vi, then yes. Does it come with anything else though? Netbeans? Eclipse? Last time i used linux, the answer was no, and I can get those some tools on windows as well.
They are not exactly equivalent. But GIMP and OpenOffice.org provide enough functionality so most of users can get rid of the corresponding commercial application.
As for programming Linux has the widest set of tools, starting from cmd-line+editor driven one like emacs or vi (and once you get hang of them they can really be powerful, specially given the kitchen-sink-scriptability of emacs) up to very nice graphical environment like eclipse (a lot of people are able to pull serious work out of it) kdevelop (Default on most KDE-based installation. I'm playing around with it and liking it, provides everything I need) anjuta, etc.
or even curiosity like SetEdit (for the nostalgic of the Borland's early "Turbo" era).
Just think for a second : If Visual Studio was this state-of-the-art "nothing is as good as this" environment ? Why doesn't it happen that most developer cross compile their linux creations from VMware image with Windows+Visual ? Whereas it happens that some of the Linux developer that make multiplatform software do cross-compile to Windows using their usual tools and Cygnus or MingW ? There's a big programming culture around Linux, and they have built tools that have evolved with them. Some are more cryptic like Emacs, other much more easy to start working in.
Linux gives you access to thousands of libraries all providing a lot of useful technologies. Keep in mind that any component, even the smallest, that you see on your linux installation, comes with it's source code, and you could play around with it - provided the necessary coding skill, like the PDF rendering ability ? Poppler is included with it's -devels. Want to put some SVG ? Access Videos ? Whatever else ? The libs are here at your finger tips.
Making a SVG-to-PDF converter is nothing more complicated than gluing together a couple of components (SVG, Cai -
gimp ui hopeOn lwn.net, there's a discussion about gimp's (lack of a nice-) UI and human-computer interaction so maybe there is hope that they'll change the GUI around again to make it more human-usable. I don't use it often (can't draw worth shit) so for me it doesn't matter anyway.
usb drives: probably not a problem. A color laser printer that works: check out http://www.openprinting.org/ first! Shop for a supported printer; e.g. currently (27-07-2007) from brand "HP" I see color laserjet 2500 and higher rated as "perfectly", model 1600 and 2600n as "mostly" and model 1500 as "paperweight" so YMMV.
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suid is evil!Once more boys and girls, say it with me now, SUID IS EVIL!
:-)
Nothing but the programs that absolutely have to should be run as root.Is there an English (not some auto-translated forum) site covering this? I think its talking about this suid run printer driver?
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Okay...
How can something be almost universally supported?
I suggest you look at this page. http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi?make=HP
You will find that most do work perfectly but a lot "mostly" work, a few don't work well or at all. A lot of Epson printers are also supported and they have even written some of the drivers themselves... And open sourced them as well.
The trick is to find which one will work for you. I want a color laser because I hate buying ink. -
Re:Infinity
printer "driver" is a windows concept, really.
Look your printer up at http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi
If its says 'paperweight' You printer is only half a printer, and its other half is implemented as proprietary microsoft-only software. Otherwise, instructions on how to print to this printer using modern Free Software should be found there.
If not, I'd be really curious to know what specific printer you are trying to use. -
linux compatibilityMy trusty Canon LBP5200 Color Laser Printer is just fine and dandy thank you.
Too bad it's not usable under Free software O/S's.
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Re:link to Dell printer Linux driver info
here is a quick summary of Dell printer Linux support. Notice all of the All In One printers are listed as paperweights. Novice Linux user has nothing to do with wanting hardware to work and having trouble doing it.
http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi?make=Dell
These are listed under the paperweight catagory;
3010CN*
Photo 924*
Photo AIO Printer 920*
Photo AIO Printer 922*
Photo AIO Printer 944*
Photo AIO Printer 962*
Photo AIO Printer 964 -
Re:Just a small warning
I want to second this and to be clear, the advice is: avoid proprietary drivers -- they suck
I too learned this the hard way after I bought a Lexmark Optra S 1625 laser printer for my office some years back. I thought "cool -- it has linux driver". Little did I know. That bastard has sucked more time out of me than I'd care to remember with it's POS proprietary driver. In contrast, my HP Laserjet 4L worked instantly and flawlessly with the OS driver, as does my Brother HL-1440 which I use at home. It's a good idea to look at the Linux Printer Compatabability List before buying a printer to use with a linux system and ignore any device with a proprietary driver no matter what the review says. Yes, this reduces the number of printers you can choose from, but if you stick to devices with an OS driver, it makes the printer setup little more than a point and click exercise. -
Re:How many
well, as we know, "works" can be defined differently
;)
according to http://openprinting.org/printer_list.cgi?make=HP
there are some hp printers in paperweight category, a couple in 'partially' and a lot in 'mostly' working categories.
i actually am basing my purchasing decisions on these lists in addition to other information sources, and i usually consider only devices in "perfectly" category.
additionally, i prefer devices that work with cups outofthebox, though this is harder to achieve. -
Yes, we DO have cross-distro RPMs...
...it is part of the Linux Standard Base and other standards of the Free Standards Group. The problem is that the standards have not been widely adopted enough. Perhaps that will change over time, particularly once LSB 2.0 is released in its final form. Presently, a few distros (Mandrake for one) are already LSB compliant and should properly install LSB-compliant RPMs regardless of the source. The drawback is that this compatibility is generally "bolted on" by installing--you guessed it--a distro-specific RPM.
RPM has been selected as the standard packaging format for LSB, and as the standard has evolved cross-distribution issues have been addressed. This had always included advocating adherance to the Filesystem Hiearchy Standard (FHS) and now includes things such as a universal package naming standard and standard implementation of printing systems. Those are among the most notorious of cross-distro difficulties we have to contend with right now.
Whatever you think of the RPM format, it serves its purpose quite well, and it is a standard. If Fedora and Mandrake and others start to work together on interoperable solutions to managing RPMs in combination with increasing support for LSB then it would mean a huge advancement in the effort to bring about widespread Linux adoption.