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Windows 7 Upgrade Can Take Nearly a Day
Eugen writes "A Microsoft Software Engineer has posted the results of tests the company performed on the upgrade time of Windows 7. The metric used was total upgrade time across different user profiles (with different data set sizes and number of programs installed) and different hardware profiles. A clean 32-bit install on what Microsoft calls 'high-end hardware' should take only 30 minutes. In the worst case scenario, the process will take about 1220 minutes. That second extreme is not a typo: Microsoft really did time an upgrade that took 20 hours and 20 minutes. That's with 650GB of data and 40 applications, on mid-end hardware, and during a 32-bit upgrade. We don't even want to know how long it would take if Microsoft had bothered doing the same test with low-end hardware. The other interesting point worth noting is that the 32-bit upgrade is faster on a clean install than a 64-bit upgrade, regardless of the hardware configuration, and is faster on low-end hardware, regardless of the Data Profile. In the other six cases, the 64-bit upgrade is faster than the 32-bit upgrade."
Good going MS! Add a few hours to that and they might beat the time it took for a few people I know to upgrade Ubuntu!
That's assuming you were running Vista before. If you were running XP then you have to install clean.
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gives a whole new meaning to a microsoft minute!
and of course... why would y
http://mrhide.pinnesota.org
They deliberately make it slow so the OS seems faster afterwards.
when you consider the lifetime of misery that follows?
This reminds me of a funny bit from "The Three Stooges" that goes something like this:
Moe: I'll take this end ...and I'll take the end in the middle!
Larry: I'll take that end
Curly:
Just so you know, there isn't an "end" in the middle. There is "low-end" and "high-end" but there is no "mid-end." That would be medium level, mid-grade or average or something else.
Mid-end is almost as jarring to the grammar nodes of my brain as "incentivize."
*never* upgrade Windows! Always start from a clean disk!
You can upgrade from XP.
"Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk."
~Joaquin Setanti
Installing win7 from a usb stick on a medium computer took me 20mins or so maybe a little less. What is the point of bringing this up. Its like.
'Well the ferrari enzo is pretty shitty. It's 0~60 really drops when it has bare tires and is driving up a 70 degree slope in the rain.' (Car analogy just for you guys.)
If it will likely never happen that way, who gives a flying fuck?
Reminds me, some dusty shelf around here still has the 13-disk win95 set, I'm sure. From the dark days of CD-ROM being an option and not a standard.
I'm still waiting for the "WOW" to start!
of having the CEO's PC out of use for a day ... or any one else's for that matter ?
What does that mean?
Oh arse
.. the Windows 7 Drinking Game exists. Let's add:
* One shot every thirty minutes the install or upgrade process takes.
* One shot if you have to start over.
* Drain the bottle if it ATE YOUR GODDAMN DATA.
Any others to add?
http://rocknerd.co.uk
Why would documents, music, video...etc add anything to an upgrade process? Shouldn't be system files and drivers that are affected? What exactly is done with a document or a music file that would require touching during an OS upgrade?
WTF? Over?
My gentoo upgrade took 2 weeks...Windows 7 may be faster...
I bet you're the kind of person who goes to Burger King and orders 2 Whoppers Junior, aren't you?
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
the process will take a bit 1220 minutes. That second extreme is not a typo:
Actually, I think that is a typo. Either the phrase a bit shouldn't be there, or it should read something like a bit longer --.
Proverbs 21:19
Hmm, I've never lost more than an evening upgrading Archlinux (if there was some hard problem after the update), and that happened only a few times, usually you lose ZERO time upgrading because it happens in the background and requires no reboot.
You could never get laid ever again in your entire lifetime!
Actually this one was quite a realistic scenario ... let's try another one:
You could be eaten by a grue within the next minute!
I have never been a fan of "upgrades" as they tend to be a bit buggy. I did a clean install of Windows 7 x64 the other day just to try it out over XP and I have to say that I am impressed (well over XP that is). It did not take too long, but then again, I would click something...go back downstairs to watch football with my tasty beverage...go upstairs at the break...rinse and repeat.
I know "upgrades" are usually cheaper - but maybe they should just give you a rebate (or immediate discount) when you send in your previous licence number - and force you to do a clean install. To help those who are not so knowlegeable - maybe you include an idiots guide to backing up files using an external HD/DVD or something like that. That should be enough for even the moderately technical person. For the idiot - maybe you include a token voucher ($20 or so) that can be used at a big box partner to help cover the cost of the upgrade for you and recover your data.
Just a thought...
1331461 is only semiprime *sigh* Alas - I am just short of 1337.
Funnier and better than a whole year of useless Slashdot troll posts.
I think Slashdot will be able to look back on the Windows 7 launch proud in the knowledge that you've done absolutely nothing to stop the adoption of Windows 7.
So many companies bury the results of bad-for-marketing tests.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
No, I order from the dollar menu to get the same food mass for half the price of the regular menu items. I like the double cheese burgers and their flame broiled goodness...
Awww memories. Seems like an eternity ago it took me near 20 hours to do an NT4 install because the installer didn't like the motherboard's cache so I had to turn it off to do the install....on each and every PC in the department. Of course several failed numerous times and had to be reinstalled. No, I think I'll be doing only fresh installs of Win7...if any.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
HA! 13 disks....is that all? Pansie!
I have the 21 disk install of OS 2.1 in the closet
Weep for me
WTF? Over?
This is why you always do a clean install, and organize your system such that this is not a difficult thing to do.
Of course, assembling a list of programs to install in addition to dealing with your data is a lot more difficult than the apt-get command I have to streamline the process, but a big advantage of reinstalling is all the random cruft programs that disappear.
"the process will take a bit 1220 minutes"
OMG, if the clean install is something like 4.8GB then that would be 4.13175854 * 10^10 bits, times 1220 minutes/bit equals 95 840 997.1 years!
-- Language is a virus from outer space.
Mid-range I believe is the common one. Of course if you only want one end you can have entry level instead of low end.
Who stores 650 GB of data in their user profile?
But yeah on a HD with only 42000RPM, yeah it might take awhile.
The upgrading process of win7 is completely new and it is done in this steps:
1) gathers settings and users files and moves them to a temp folder
2) completely delete all previous OS files (it saves them to be able to roll back if something goes wrong)
3) Clean install of windows 7
4) imports all the files from step 1
Mine installed in about 13 minutes upgrading from Vista with about 53GB of data in the user file, I don't think I will do an upgrade but rather a fresh install when Win7 comes out.
... because the install process didn't tell you to remove the disk on the final reboot?
I've lost all my marbles except one & It's fun to test angular & centripetal acceleration in my skull
My MacOS X Snow Leopard upgrade process took 22 HOURS because it decided to back up the whole FileVault container before proceeding. This despite the fact that according to TimeMachine, backups were at an OK status before. Not that big of a deal really. Why so serious?
Now; you can have the "high end", and the "low end". And in the middle, you have -- "mid-range". The middle is not an "end". If you mean "speed" or "quality" or "power" when you write "end", use those words.
Isn't that amazing, considering that the Haiku project took 8 years of development to release an official R1 alpha?
Oh, you mean one day to INSTALL?
Shame on you, Microsoft!
What the hell is the upgrade doing to all that data... identifying all the non-DRM'd illegal media and sending a list of it to Microsoft?
I don't get it.
It took me a day to go to Snow Leopard
1. Back up system .1 release came out
2. Install Snow Leopard
3. Do a "migrate" of my old data to the new OS
4. Discover that all my apps crashed!
5. Restore the system to the backup I made in step 1
6. Repeat process when the
poorly written and planned article about an extreme software upgrade scenario, which any intelligent admin in their right mind would only be preforming because they were getting paid to do so, and who previously lost the argument of talking sense into the Luddite who ordered this nonsense situation
...I am glad that the article pointed out the obvious: DON'T UPGRADE! I'm not saying don't use Win7, (cause, for a Windows OS, I like it) I'm saying don't upgrade to an OS that, architecturally, is so different.
Make it a new install!!
It would have been nice to also include the time it takes to do a clean install of Vista on the low/med/high end machine and also a clean install of Win7. The benefit of those extra numbers would be to know if one should go Retail/OEM vs Upgrade for Win7.
Upgrading from KDE3 to KDE4 took me a few days. "what about this colour.... where the heck is that setting gone? and how does it look when I put this widget there, and that one over there.... now let's use a different wallpaper... oh, now what if I move that widget again?"
No we haven't seen it. Care to find it on YouTube and post a link here?
And Karmic Koala took me 3 hours to update to (including doing stupid stuff), then when I was done it told me my harddrive was broken.
WTF? According to the referenced MS blog post, the 650Gb is user data. Why in the world would upgrading your OS and installed apps depend on the amount of per-user data you had? Why is the system updater even bothering to look in the per-user directories?
Why doesn't the gene pool have a life guard?
Honestly Ive never had a upgrade from any os work correctly. If you know what you are doing then always do a clean install after backing up your data. If you dont know how to do it, pay someone who can or sit down and shut up.
See you then. Maybe.
I'll bet that really tics you off when yer at work :P
I upgraded my dual core laptop 2GB of memory from Vista to Windows 7 last night, and I can say it was a very slow install! It took my computer a couple of hours to upgrade from Vista to Windows 7. Microsoft should be ashamed to release something that slow given their resources and money. I'm also a Ubuntu user and I have been very impressed with upgrade and install process there. Microsoft has to do better if they expect people to pay for their software and OS.
The data size was 650GB, that takes a few hours on its own to copy on most systems, and you are copying it twice. It is no suprise that it took that long, plus you have to take into account the time it takes to install each program that was on the previous install. Running XP on my development machine takes a good 8-10 hours to get everything fully installed and setup. Not to mention running Windows Update.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Huh... a reverse whoosh.
Okey dokey, I'll tell my boss that when we try to install our accounting software on our shiny news Macs and find we can't get technical support.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
It took me 30 minutes for clean setup for x64 version on Core 2 Duo 2.1 Ghz, new SATA hard drive (relatively fast).
First its was 640k... ....
The we had the 640p Halo pixel count.
Now we have 1220 minutes
Where is your homework?
Can I have an extension?
We installed Windows 7 last night
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I remember copying Win95b onto floppies (as the cab files were just the right size) to get it installed on a machine without a CD-ROM. I also remember a different version (wither A or C) that had larger cab files and required specially formated floppies to transfer that way.
I thought that hard drives were supposed to be real fast these days, did Microsoft find a way to make them run slower?
Take Nobody's Word For It.
Upgrading an OS seems extremely problematic. Fresh install the thing.
Well, I've got it on 5-1/4" floppies. Ditto for Windows 3.0 and DOS 6, 5, and even 3.something_or_other.
I finally threw out the single-sided, 8-sector floppies a decade or so ago. Maybe it's time to do another culling ... mind you, they were still readable back in 1997 (last time I checked, just for the heck of it). Now I don't even know if I have an old working 5-1/4 drive still kicking around.
And I'm the type of person who can't even remember the last time I went in Burger King!
I have no idea what you two are talking about!
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
Just so you know, there isn't an "end" in the middle. There is "low-end" and "high-end" but there is no "mid-end." That would be medium level, mid-grade or average or something else.
Mid-end is almost as jarring to the grammar nodes of my brain as "incentivize."
Good point. Hermes, incentivize that commenter!
I do not see how this is an upgrade. In my experience, as long as you are staying with MS, all you can do with them is downgrade...
wake up and hold your nose
I felt the same way about that word, figuring it was an over-conjugation for which "incent" would suffice. But I was surprised to find that in the dictionary I checked, "incent" wasn't listed - just "incentivize".
I had one of my coworker upgrade from Vista to Windows 7 and it took him about 7 hours to complete the whole process; I on the other hand did a clean install from a mid range Dell system Dual Core Intel and it took me about an hour.
What CEO has 650 GB of pr0n on his machine? The one who is going to give you a nice raise when you find it while copying their "data" over - or fire your ass asap!
Seriously, if the CEO is male, he has porn on at least one machine.
Is YES! Billable hours here we come!
He's making a joke about grammar pendantry.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Ya... it doesn't even include the "online updates" that can take an entire day to install and reboot your computer over and over again.
It looks like they're finally taking Linux seriously. They're working on having a longer install time than Gentoo.
Hi. I work with small businesses. I'm here to explain to you why Windows 7 will dominate this market for the foreseeable future, and why Linux will not. It is my hope that you will get some inspiration to create products that I can sell to customers besides file and web servers.
1. Windows 7 does not force a user to edit any configuration files for any normal desktop user. I cannot stress how important this is for most small business owners. This is not the 1980s. No one has any interest in programming or fiddling with tens of arcane text files to get work done. They just want to turn on their computer, use it to process data, and then go home. If you claim that this is not the case, you're just ignoring reality.
2. Windows can run on most hardware. It can run most applications. This means it's cheaper to deploy than Apple solutions, and you can actually do something once the OS is installed.
3. After years and years, there is still no multi-user, end-to-end solution for creating quotes, orders, and invoices, that integrates with an accounting solution to keep track of payables and then print checks to pay them. You are being beaten by a company, ironically called Intuit, that just switched from a flat file system in 2006.
I realize a lot of this has to do with driver support. I realize most of you don't care if your software is popular or not. I realize that you will reply with some alpha and beta stage software which you think can do the job, but won't.
However, bashing Windows is a complete waste of time. I'm not saying I can do better, but I am saying that you need to stop pretending that you are doing any better. The future is not going to be using a computer like a computer. The future is turning a computer into an appliance that Just Works Every Time.
Don't get me wrong - newer distros are amazing. Synaptic is like a revelation of the way things should be done. OOo is so close it's almost unbearable. I'm learning Python on the Linux side because it's easier than trying to configure windows for the same task. But you've got to start expecting more out of yourselves than of your end users.
So let me be your James Carville for a moment. My big banner says:
1. Users are not programmers
2. It's the applications, stupid!
3. Don't forget about accounting software
4. Laptops are people too
I have an immense amount of respect for the people who work on these projects, because you all know a hell of a lot more about computers and computer science than I probably ever will. However, I am pleading with you to abstract your knowledge so that everyday people can use it. Otherwise, it's not going to do the world much good.
Did you get paid for that post?
Wow, Where do you get one of those 42,000 RPM drives?
Hush, don't try to introduce reality, it only makes him cry.
Oh arse
Isn't the Whopper Junior on the dollar menu?
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Mmmm... Dollar Menu Burger King Food Mass.
At work, I test softwares for living. I had to do OS upgrades even on OLD machines (e.g., Dell Dimension 8250 with 512 MB of RAM). I never had OS upgrades take more than two hours! And those were from old OEM Windows XP Home and clean Vista OS.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
I threw out build 224 only recently. That was an interesting build - most of the controls looked like motif widgets, including scroll bars and buttons, diamond-shaped radio buttons, and so forth.
Another interesting thing in that build was if you cd ... it took you up two directory levels, cd .... would take you up three levels, and so forth.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
Oops nope, it was beta 1 (build 122) that had the motif widget-like look and feel, not 224 (beta 2).
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
You don't actually work at a business, do you? The idea of having TWO more operating systems (Citrix and OS X) to deal with just so that somebody can make a braindead presentation in keynote or not have to deal with an AV system is a bit much. Businesses typically don't want to pull stunts like that unless they absolutely have to. Remember, Keep It Simple, Stupid.
The fact that Powerpoint tends to blow up on our machines is generally considered to be a feature rather than a bug.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
I am curious as to what super user would actually have 650Gb of stuff sitting on the boot partition.
By definition, anything that is "mid-" cannot be at an end.
Coz it ain't
spoonerize "magic trackpad"
Although I still keep it around as well, I upgraded from Windows XP around nine months ago now.
Stability and security are better than ever, and the price of the upgrade was probably the single best part, as well. I thoroughly recommend it. Except for occasionally going into XP to play World of Warcraft, for the most part, I haven't looked back.
People needed Exchange 2007 support back in 2006.
Oh, so you still need to maintain a Windows XP install somewhere, or emulate one? (Yes, WINE is an emulator - it emulates Windows by translating most Windows routines to native ones.)
Virus definition updates were never a headache. And yes, you need AV software for your Mac, and you need to be more hands-on with your security if you go Linux. Either way, to the end-user, it's like a Ron Popeil Rotissery Cooker - set it and forget it.
Projectors? I know you're a troll when you bring this one up.
So you need the ADC -> DVI connector.
Oh, you have the ADC -> MiniDVI connector. You also need a Mini DVI to DVI connector. Oh wait, you have mini Display Port, you need to go from that to minidvi, then from there to DVI. Oh, but the laptop only has VGA, so you need a DVI-VGA dongle. But it still won't work because your laptop can't do analog through DVI.
Presentations? You can make the same shitty shit with either. And Execs have other people make it for them, anyway.
modern iMacs have a larger screen with higher resolution than most typical PC desktops.
I am completely convinced. This is completely sound argument to buy a Mac.
Maurice Wilkes, debugging, 1949
There is no reason why any business user cannot get their work done on a mac desktop or laptop these days and modern iMacs have a larger screen with higher resolution than most typical PC desktops. Snow Leopard now includes Exchange 2007 support for email, contacts and appointments. Any legacy apps that you cannot find an equivalent on OS X right now could be run through citrix desktop client for OS X. Not only will they avoid the headaches of having to keep up to date on their virus definitions but they also will not have to worry about their laptop working with projector for their presentation. Execs get the added bonus of being able to create presentations with more polish with Keynote than you can accomplish out of the box with Powerpoint.
Agreed. Now all I have to do is figure out how I can justify buying Mac hardware at two or three times the cost of of nearly identical hardware (minus EFI BIOS) from Dell or HP. Oh yeah, I'll also need to figure out how to pay for that new Citrix farm I'm going to need for the apps that don't run native on OSX. Other than that it should be a breeze.
Or, I could just do what I'm doing now, which is only roll out the new OS as a fresh install on new/replacement hardware. That way it only takes 15-20 minutes to lay down the base image, then I can apply whatever customizations/application installs that I want after the fact, and I take the end user a PC that's ready to go and replace their existing PC with it. In the worst case scenario, they weren't using roaming profiles or network shares and I'll have to run the Windows Easy Transfer wizard for 30 minutes to migrate their user profile.
What accounting system?
There is a solution for that too. Better know as Fusion or Parallels...
And, FWIW, "Mid Range Hardware" is what it's called in the original blog entry -- the 'mid-end' nonsense is just another artifact of the /. summary process.
I think "low end" is much more descriptive than "entry level" -- if anything, it seems to tend toward the opposite. Entry level users have relatively new machines with fast CPUs and big hard drives. It's the more experienced users who can get by with horribly obsolete hardware...
The universe is a figment of its own imagination.
But it seems that few here realize the reason why. It's the same reason why SP2 for Office requires you to "reset your Outlook profile" back up. The reason? Because for the first time this 'upgrade' actually takes it's time and does it right, instead of casually overlaying new APIs and layers on top of old ones. It reindexes, reworks, revamps, cleans out the old, and carefully puts in the new. I've done multiple clean installs of Win 7 (RC1 and RTM) as well as upgrades from Vista (and prior version of Win 7) and I have yet to run into an issue on either one. Drivers work, apps work, settings work, everything is where it should be and runs practically like it was installed fresh. Although the bitching is understandable and expected due to Microsoft's reputation in this department, it is unwarranted when considering Windows 7 merits alone. I think a lot of you guys will be pleasantly surprised. Btw.. It's taken a few hours, but never in the double digits. I think this is a worst-case-scenario more than anything else.
Sorry....so do I. DOS 6.0 and Windows 3.1 on 5.25 floppies.
I still have the computer (486 Zeos) with the drive too.
Still boots.
Booya!
WTF? Over?
13 does seem a little light for Windows 95. I have Windows 3.11 on floppy disks and it was 10, I think, including DOS 6.22. I'm fairly sure Windows 95 added more than three floppies of bloat.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
it is
I upgraded a well used Dell OEM Vista Business install to 7 RC1 Ultimate. I started around 6 PM and it finished right after I woke up at 8 AM the next day.
Machine was a slightly upgraded Dell Inspiron 531 -- new PSU, GPU, and 4 Gigs of RAM.
So now you're not only tied to one brand for the OS like you are with Windows, but you're tied to one brand for hardware too? Oh yeah, the purchasing department is going to love the wiggle room that gives them for negotiation...
53 disks for a compiler. Just the compiler.
This was also the time I found out the floppy disks can go bad. The last disk went bad so I found out during an install of the compiler.
Windows 7 is a good stable os. Get over it.
Seriously, who here hasn't charted out the $ to calorie ratios of all the menu items at popular fast food chains? They even make it easier by putting the calorie listings on the back of the place mat at mcdonalds!
Never 'upgrade', it invariably borks something, go for a clean installation and copy over your files. If you do decide to move your few hundred XP desktops to Windows 7, then create your own unattended installer, saves a lot of endlessly ticking click-boxes and dropdown menus. Like with any other version of Windows, I would hold off until version 7.03 comes out. That way you should avoid most of the bugs
Seriously. If you think about it, the minimal CD is very low resource, it will even run on a pentium 133.
1) Extracting a stage3 and portage tarballs might take some time on slow systems, but nothing like TFA! :)
2) Instead of compiling all the software you need, just use a bin-pkg repository.
3) Fine tune your system as needed.
4) ??
5) Make a good use of it, you will never need to format it again.
6) Profit? No, but I bet you will learn something useful in the process
Yet you still knew what was meant. It seems your complaint is over style not substance. In short, nobody cares.
You probably still say "thither" don't you?
I downloaded Windows 7 x64 from Microsoft TechNet, I installed it over Windows XP. The install backed up all my files and it took less than 30 minutes.
I moved all my "user data" to a network drive and it only took a few hours to upgrade a sluggish 1.6 celeron laptop with 2GB ram from Vista pro 32bit to Windows 7 ultimate 32bit.
Pro Coffee Drinker
Verbing weirds language.
Perhaps Ars Technical should rename themselves "Ars incapable of comprehending anything even marginally technical". After mentioning the 1220 minute upgrade, they comment that: "We don't even want to know how long it would take if Microsoft had bothered doing the same test with low-end hardware."
Let's see now: the 1220 minute upgrade included 650 Gb of data, but the low-end hardware only included a 320 Gb hard drive. Does it really take any great brilliance to see a problem with that?
The universe is a figment of its own imagination.
More lousy reporting by Emil Protalinski. Great job cherry picking and distorting the data.
This particular upgrade involved copying over 650 GB, which was probably the culprit here. The hard drive was a Western Digital Black 1TB. Because upgrading to 7 over Vista requires copying the user profiles (the location has changed), and because there wasn't enough free space to do this, the upgrade sort of thrashed slowly swapping out data. They didn't do the test with the low-end hardware because that rig only had a 320 GB hard drive, the "Heavy" user on the low end system (125 GB of data plus apps) might have been bumping up against this too.
So the lesson is that if you have more that 50% of your disk space stored in your user profiles (e.g. My Documents) you might have problems during an upgrade. If the data was stored anywhere else, this problem would not exist.
I bet I could get an upgrade to take several WEEKS if I rigged it to copy a huge amount of data over a very slow network. I could even manually throttle bandwidth. I'm not sure what this would prove.
"Normal" upgrades that didn't involve moving so much data took 2 hours or less.
Vista to 7 is a relatively clean upgrade (compared to, say, 98 to 2000), but not really recommended. If your system is part of a domain contact your IT for best practice. Major version upgrades have always been problematic in Windows (better than MacOS and many Linux distros) so I recommend a "Settings" backup, clean install, and restore rather than upgrade.
Slashdot is subject to it's own internal liberal and conservative swings. Right now it's unpopular to point out that Windows 7 is a superior operating system. In a few weeks it will be the reverse.
What accounting system?
There is a solution for that too. Better know as Fusion or Parallels...
There is also a 3rd, cheaper, solution: Don't pay for OSX and Windows when all you needed to begin with was Windows.
Is this an upgrade or a clean install? Which is it?
It's a very dark ride.
Have you seen that ad with the girl's powerpoint?
Did anyone else read that and substitute the word "clitoris" for "powerpoint"?
I'd be curious to know how long it took to backup the 650GB of user data. If it's like how we perform upgrades it's probably over the wire and adds a lot of time for a chunk of data that large. Bear in mind if that's the case the data has to be pulled back down as well.
Mmmmmm, "food mass"... Can't wait to see that on the menu.
to those of you who kvetched about the vista upgrade process! now we dont expect to hear anymore whining or so help us we will tack another 20 hours onto the upgrade time for windows 8!
hillariously enough, windows vista takes longer upgrade than most electric kilns do to fire pottery.
Good people go to bed earlier.
What about the ~120 minute upgrade with 70GB of data? That seems pretty long to me... 2 hours.
I'm not sure what that means, is the computer offline for 2 hours while the upgrade installs? Or maybe it's the total amount of time to install and finish re-indexing your content, in which case the core install is much shorter and the computer is already running while re-indexing of content completes.
The upgrade is a pretty realistic scenario as there are going to be quite a few Vista users standing in line for Windows 7. With the advent of DRM, I'm not sure how successful even power users are going to be at getting the clean installs to work - an upgrade sure would be easier.
Eric Sarjeant
eric[@]sarjeant.com
Actually, from my experience the "cruft" that supposedly gets Windows bloatier and slower, isn't as much a Microsoft issue, but the result of all those crap half-arsed 3'rd party installers and (more importantly) uninstallers, that placed crap all over the place and then forgot to uninstall it.
On my home machine I must have thousands of copy protection DLL's and drivers from all those paranoid game publishers alone, because God forbid that they don't place yet another obfuscated and untested driver on the DVD chain. You know, what with all the pirates running a cracked version without that anyway, God forbid that they'd stop punishing us honest paying customers instead. I must have such an unholy mix of StarForce, SafeDisc, SecuROM, and a few other things shat by the bowels of Hell, that it's got to reach either critical mass or sentience one of these days and start WW3.
And of course half the uninstallers forget to take _that_ crap out.
Then there are all the non-game things that just have to try to keep themselves resident, load their DLL's or custom libraries deep in Windows, and whatever. Last time I installed even Mozilla or Open Office from scratch (admittedly, that was way back in 2.0 days), they just had to try to keep themselves resident in memory, to appear that they launch faster than the MS alternative. Using the user's few RAM as your own private RAM-Disk has got to be an acceptable substitute to optimizing your own freaking code to actually load faster. But nah, the user surely has nothing better to do with his RAM than to help with out willy-waving, and will gladly buy another gigabyte just to help one more incompetent company brag about loading faster than MS.
Or here's an idea: how about using the standard widgets of whatever OS and window manager you run on? Now that ought to shave off the time of loading yet another cutesy skinned UI.
And then there's stuff loaded apparently for my convenience, that is "mine" only if I happened to be a marketroid for one of those vendors. Like EA's auto-downloader trying to stay resident in the tray, for no other reason than that apparently they don't want to let me download patches with a browser. Sun's Java trying to stay resident in the tray, just so it can pester me with reminders to get the latest Java 1.6... when I'm deliberately trying to test code that _must_ run with Java 1.4. Etc.
And then there's the occasional screw-up like an older version of McAffee antivirus which, I swear to the elder gods, actually couldn't cope with being installed in another directory than the default. So the first update actually installed a second copy, at the default location, but let the old one active too. So suddenly I had two antiviruses stacked in memory, and of course uninstalling only removed one. Took some grumbling and digging through Windows innards, just to get rid of it.
Then there's the stuff which plants its bits so deep in Windows, that you almost have to kill the host to get the parasite out. Goa'uld style. And I'm not even talking actual viruses and trojans, but antiviruses, and the occasional program which just has to bombard you with ads at all times. (And I'm still not even talking proper malware. An older RealPlayer version did just that... and that's why it was the last version I ever tried.)
Then there's stuff which just has to add some unneeded functionality, apparently just because they can't trust the default Windows implementation to do its job. I'm talking stuff like Creative adding its own disk change detector, never mind that Windows's auto-play works perfectly well as it is. Or that if I disabled that, I don't want Creative automatically starting to play anything either.
Then there are all the tons of custom skinned widgets, libraries that I need just for one single program (yeah, I sooo always wanted a display driver that needs .Net, thank you ATI), etc.
It's just sad. It used to be that you needed a virus to get your computer to crawl, while your hard drive icon and modem LEDs blink like crazy. For the last decade increasingly you only need to install legit paid-for software.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Of all the people I know who use MS operating systems, tech and nontech alike, NO ONE upgrades. Even the various IT departments I've worked for don't go that route, because it invariably takes longer, causes more problems down the road, and never works quite right. When you're moving from one MS operating system to another, you do a clean install, period. My mom knows this.
I've got a Dos disk image punched into punchcards somewhere.
I was bored in class one day and found you can hook the punchcard writer into a rs232 port. ran through the schools stock of punchcards in 1 hour.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
It's spelled 'pedantry' :-)
"grammer pendantry" is for those who make jewelry with words.
"That second extreme is not a typo: Microsoft really did time an upgrade that took 20 hours and 20 minutes. That's with 650GB of data, 40 applications, on mid-end hardware, and during a 32-bit upgrade."
So from now on, all I'll hear is how Windows 7 takes "...nearly a day" up upgrade, based on these extremes.
I think it's below Slime Mold in terms of nutrition in the Nethack universe (the one that has Burger King in it on Level 39).
That's got to be the weirdest/funniest thing I've read in a while ...
Hope you don't drop the stack and get them mixed up ... that would give a REAL "stack error."
You may have time to read this Windows 7 review while doing that and deciding if you really want to finish that installation... unless can't browse internet while upgrading windows.
Surely "high-end" hardware has more than 4GB of memory these days, why install a 32 bit OS?
Okay, then you're running windows again, so you need to buy new hardware, that is more expensive, and you need to buy a full license of windows, also more expensive... so you want your boss to spend 4-5x as much vs. upgrading to Win7?
Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
Whopper Jrs are on the "dollar," or as BK calls it, the value menu.
Also, in many markets, double cheeseburgers are no longer on the value menu, or are on the menu at a price above $1.
Whoosh.
Or should that be Wooosh?
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Yesterday around noon, I started an emerge -aetv world, and it's still running, with 516 of 1304 packages left.
Imagine all the time I will save with my super-fast optimized system, when it's done approximately tomorrow afternoon.
Or just to fix a seemingly minor bug.
P.S.: I wish I was kidding!
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
Upgrades are a nice idea, but they are asking for problems. Sure, sometimes they work fine, other times they have strange problems, still other times your whole system blows up.
Happened to one of our students running Linux. He runs Ubuntu on one of his systems. The last two times a major update has come out, he's told it to update. In both cases, the system was totally hosed as a result, and required a reinstall.
I always like the full reinstall option for OS upgrades. It is by far the way to the least amount of problems. I also find it serves another useful purpose: Cleaning out of junk. Many of us (like me) are hoarders and collect data we don't really need. A reinstall cleans all that out. You either back it up, or it goes away.
I just don't get the point in upgrading OSes.
Seriously, who here hasn't charted out the $ to calorie ratios of all the menu items at popular fast food chains? They even make it easier by putting the calorie listings on the back of the place mat at mcdonalds!
It isn't worth it. The free sachets of mayo win every time.
Why would anyone bother? At a corporate level, I upgraded the OS by buying new machines capable of running the new OS. The same thing applies privately. It makes little sense to upgrade the OS on an older machine--if it can even handle it, especially with the price of garden variety machines. A Presario, for example, is a perfectly adequate machine for any but those seriously in the need for speed. It costs $500. My home machines run XP, which is very stable. The laptop is getting old enough that the letters on the keys are wearing off. I'll be able to upgrade by skipping the problematical Vista altogether to another stable OS. The last time I tried to get everyone on the same OS was DOS 6.0. It's not worth the hassle.
As a practical matter for most people, this is a non-issue.
How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.
it can crash in a flash!
I have upgraded a fairly loaded Mac Mini to Snow Leopard. First of all, damn thing doesn't even need to reboot first. It starts putting the "flat packages" to hard disk immediately so it won't have to deal with IO latency of DVD media.
It reboots in 30 secs (Apple fashion) and starts upgrading, running a massive set of perl/python scripts to make sure everything is flawless. I was tired to watch it but we talk about a 1 hour "upgrade" install where entire OS being upgraded to newer one on Mac Mini which has laptop parts (Hard disk, DVD, screen).
At end, you see 7-8 GB freed and wonder "what has changed", in fact everything has changed but you won't see until you run activity monitor.
I know it is not really big deal but what impressed me is, it didn't need to reboot OS. OS was running, even screensaver was functional in first stage.
So when are slashdot users going to improve their scientific literacy? Clearly they don't know how to analyze and interpret Microsoft's data.
The Slashdot Scientific Method:
1) Worst case scenario is 20 hour Windows 7 install.
2) I am 100% biased towards Linux due to ideology.
3) One time I installed Linux and it took much less time than 20 hours.
4) Clearly Windows 7 is awful.
It's scientific.
It may have only taken 30 minutes to install but I'm having to deal now with a lifetime of regret.....
"i lost my dignity on a slippery wiener"
Upgrading any OS, especially Windows, is asking for trouble. If you want to be an idiot then sit there all day and bask in your idiocy.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Duh.
The 64-bit installation has twice as many bits to install.
What?! No mention of the free crackers-and-mustard/catsup sandwiches?
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
To hang on to XP!
Or switch to Linux..
I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
as the article says " the process will take a bit 1220 minutes.", then the entire upgrade will take 2000,000 years for a 1 GB upgrade
I've never had a in-place upgrade in any operating system that was issue free, many that are a complete headache. I generally do not bother. Both Windows and Linux are better off with clean installs.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
*ALWAYS* do the following:
1) Back up what data you want to keep
2) Nuke from Orbit
3) Re-install Windows and your Apps
4) Restore your data
Repeat this every 6 months even if you are not upgrading.
For me, the last time was the first time I tried the 'New Burger King Fries' that were supposed to taste more like McDonald's fries. They just suck now.
open source sub sim. I might start coding again for this. http://dangerdeep.sourceforge.net/contribute/
Anonymous Coward, Thank you for evaluating Windows 7 and it's great to hear that you are enjoying your experience so much! If you are planning on purchasing Windows 7 when it is released it may be helpful to know you don't have to wait until October to reserve your copy of Win 7! You can pre-order your copy of Windows 7 Home Premium or Windows 7 Professional today. For more information, see the Windows 7 Pre-Order offer page here: http://tinyurl.com/nldc8p Jessica Microsoft Windows Client Team
I was under the impression that with a linear spectrum ranging from low to high with middle in the, uh, middle, only high and low were "ends"... and the middle wasn't.
http://www.tenjou.net/
You know, I never stopped to think about it, but if I ever think I could choke down two of those deceptively delicious* artery cloggers in a single seating, that's definitely how I'm going to order them from now on.
*maybe delicious is too strong a word. But edible-tasting, anyway.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
I don't think I ever spent more than 6-8 for a base OS/2 Warp install.
Here's why it takes so long. If it's not a clean install, it takes a really long time to scan every frame of every video you have on the hard drive, ship them to the MPAA to match them against their archives of copyrighted material, then pull credit card numbers from your disk and scan your purchase history to see whether you paid for them.
Especially when you add the network latency from routing all of those packets through the NSA.
This is a joke. I think.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
But then when you're done, you have a damn-fine operating system!
OK, don't bother flaming me about binary installs for Gentoo, I know they exist, I just like doing things the hard way.
I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
Anyone want to compare to linux upgrade times perhaps? Thought not.
Hate on windows if you like, but for fucks sake, pick actual valid arguments (closed nature, lack of cross platform compatibility, minimum resource requirements, etc) - straw-man articles like these just make the open source/anti-windows movement look like a pack of idiots.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
Why can't the indexing service work in the background while you use the computer for something else? It can just move the files to the new directory structure and index it later.
s/to XP/to 7/
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Do you realize that no one cares about the ridiculous grammar lessons you're dumping on us? Forest. . . .Trees. . . Are you seeing the big picture of the discussion or just nit-picking on some minutia that isn't necessary to understand the discussion thread?
Yer rite. i ges i shood resink mai aidiaz abaut gud, kleer and uffectuv kommyunikashunz.
8 hours? Are you serious? Please tell me this is over dial up...
Okey dokey, I'll tell my boss that when we try to install our accounting software on our shiny news Macs and find we can't get technical support.
I highlighted the answer for you. Google citrix and educate yourself. The applications that only exist on windows would be installed on a citrix (read windows) server.
I sometimes check my work email from home on my mac through citrix. No Parallels/Fusion or dual booting required.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
My point is, that for a small company who can't spend much on software or hardware support, it's always going to be easier to just buy a cheap PC and install the accounting software out of the box. No-one I work with knows or cares a thing about Macs or Citrix servers.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it