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BTW, check out this link for benchmark results. The only place the latest Java (1.4.2) did significantly worse than GCC, and skewed the results were in the trig functions. In fact, in the int math test Java beat GCC. Slow? I don't think so.

Microsoft has it REALLY easy, and is cut way too much slack, when it comes to development environments and languages. They control the operating system and the hardware specifications and compliance. And, they have done so for well over a decade.

Java is truly platform independent, which is a huge challenge. That challenge was met with a well designed language that operated slowly. However, between 1.4 and 1.5 there are substantially speed increases in the VM which bring it up to par with the fastest languages available.

When you think about developing applications you need to consider many things other than pure technology:
- Who will be around in 5-10 years (both MS tech and Java tech will)
- Access to developers (while MS is the clear winner in the US, this is not so in other countries, where even gov'ts are against MS)
- Vendor independence and support (this is clearly in favor of Java)
..the list goes on.

Debian is Slow, Worse, Expensive

Open source may be good, but there is one example that sticks out like a sore thumb as a problem with open source. Debian gnu/Linux. It is offically the Worst Linux Distribution ever made.

First of all, Debian has the most out of date software packages of any major mainstream distros. Even in the unstable version, is KDE 2.2 and Gnome 2.0, with Xfree86 4.1 (A version that really sucks). There are literally years that pass between each update of Debian.

Secondly, its a pain in the goatse to set up, first of all, you are forced to use Kernel 2.2, which is horribly hacked with "backports" to get any use on any modern machine (Read, made after 1999). Good luck memorizing all the *.ko files in /lib/modules, as you are going to need it.

Configuring XFree86 is hell! If you don't have a Thick X11 orilley book, and a list of your horizontal sync values from your monitor's intruction manual (if you even have one), BOOM! There goes your monitor.

Even then, good luck getting anything over 640x480@16 colours.

The most common response to help questions on the Debian mailing list is "n00b, READ THE FUCKING MANUAL, you idiot, go back to WINDOWS XP if you can't learn to use dselect", true too, search the archives if you think I'm lying. Other distros give you comprehensive PRINTED MANUALS, PHONE SUPPPORT and/or freindly forums where repling RTFM gets you banned!

Debians support for any decent hardware, including USB mice, scanners, Sound cards, heck even Serial devices struggle. If you can even get 80x25 text mode with PS/2 input devices you are really lucky.

Apt-get has many flaws. First of all it uses a non standard package format (the rest of the world uses RPM, deprecate the DEB format!), has broken respetories, and out of date software to install. All this combined with the kludgey dselect user interface make package management a nightmare.

And if you think I'm joking about this, find out why THOUSANDS of Debian users are switching to REAL distributions Debian is falling to pieces, if it is to survive any market share it will be through its superior forks (Xandros, Lindows, K/G-noppix) and unoffical package respetories.

Of course, while all this is going on, the only thing the Debian maintainers do is argue about politics on the mailing lists. The distribution decays while its creators argue over inane details like software licensing and the virtues of Marxism. Please! Spare me the political rhetoric and just give me a working distro!

Don't get me wrong, I love Linux, and I'm happily using distros such as Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo and Fedora. But I'm sick to death of zealots that push obsolete Distros on me EVERY FREAKING TIME linux is mentioned. I'm speaking from real world experiance here.

2.6.2 has been out for several hours now ... (changelog here) - surprised /. hasn't picked this up yet. It's not like the /. editors care about hammering a site. :)

BeOS isn't obscure enough, you have a whole following at OSNews. No, maybe Plan-9 or HURD, of those that more than 1000 people know about.

Check this screenshot for example.

This is true with AMD64, AMD's implementation of 64-bit instructions in x86.

How intel will do it, and if/if not it will provide the same benefits isn't yet completely clear, as there is no working product to test and examine.

That said... at least on UltraSPARC (a 64-bit architecture I've been using for years now), applications compiled to 32-bit are generally faster than the same application compiled to 64-bit, regardless of if/if not you are using GCC or Sun's own compilers (which would, presumably, take best advantage of their chips).

Documentation echoing this notion is here.

See Tony Bourke's older article, which conluded that 64 bit binaries are slower than 32 bit binaries. This set of statistics he posted has totally obliterated his previous conclusion. He had only used GCC 3.3.2 and assumed that compiling for both 32 and 64 bits were optimized similarly. However, in most of the benchmarks he did with Sun's compiler, 64 bit programs came ahead of 32 bit ones. This means that GCC 3.3.2 is not as well optimized for his computer for 64 bits as for 32 bits, while the Sun compiler is. If he had just looked at his own data, he would have seen that.

Debian is Slow, Worse, Expensive

Open source may be good, but there is one example that sticks out like a sore thumb as a problem with open source. Debian gnu/Linux. It is offically the Worst Linux Distribution ever made.

First of all, Debian has the most out of date software packages of any major mainstream distros. Even in the unstable version, is KDE 2.2 and Gnome 2.0, with Xfree86 4.1 (A version that really sucks). There are literally years that pass between each update of Debian.

Secondly, its a pain in the goatse to set up, first of all, you are forced to use Kernel 2.2, which is horribly hacked with "backports" to get any use on any modern machine (Read, made after 1999). Good luck memorizing all the *.ko files in /lib/modules, as you are going to need it.

Configuring XFree86 is hell! If you don't have a Thick X11 orilley book, and a list of your horizontal sync values from your monitor's intruction manual (if you even have one), BOOM! There goes your monitor.

Even then, good luck getting anything over 640x480@16 colours.

The most common response to help questions on the Debian mailing list is "n00b, READ THE FUCKING MANUAL, you idiot, go back to WINDOWS XP if you can't learn to use dselect", true too, search the archives if you think I'm lying. Other distros give you comprehensive PRINTED MANUALS, PHONE SUPPPORT and/or freindly forums where repling RTFM gets you banned!

Debians support for any decent hardware, including USB mice, scanners, Sound cards, heck even Serial devices struggle. If you can even get 80x25 text mode with PS/2 input devices you are really lucky.

Apt-get has many flaws. First of all it uses a non standard package format (the rest of the world uses RPM, deprecate the DEB format!), has broken respetories, and out of date software to install. All this combined with the kludgey dselect user interface make package management a nightmare.

And if you think I'm joking about this, find out why THOUSANDS of Debian users are switching to REAL distributions Debian is falling to pieces, if it is to survive any market share it will be through its superior forks (Xandros, Lindows, K/G-noppix) and unoffical package respetories.

Of course, while all this is going on, the only thing the Debian maintainers do is argue about politics on the mailing lists. The distribution decays while its creators argue over inane details like software licensing and the virtues of Marxism. Please! Spare me the political rhetoric and just give me a working distro!

Don't get me wrong, I love Linux, and I'm happily using distros such as Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo and Fedora. But I'm sick to death of zealots that push obsolete Distros on me EVERY FREAKING TIME linux is mentioned. I'm speaking from real world experiance here.

Debian is Slow, Worse, Expensive

Open source may be good, but there is one example that sticks out like a sore thumb as a problem with open source. Debian gnu/Linux. It is offically the Worst Linux Distribution ever made.

First of all, Debian has the most out of date software packages of any major mainstream distros. Even in the unstable version, is KDE 2.2 and Gnome 2.0, with Xfree86 4.1 (A version that really sucks). There are literally years that pass between each update of Debian.

Secondly, its a pain in the goatse to set up, first of all, you are forced to use Kernel 2.2, which is horribly hacked with "backports" to get any use on any modern machine (Read, made after 1999). Good luck memorizing all the *.ko files in /lib/modules, as you are going to need it.

Configuring XFree86 is hell! If you don't have a Thick X11 orilley book, and a list of your horizontal sync values from your monitor's intruction manual (if you even have one), BOOM! There goes your monitor.

Even then, good luck getting anything over 640x480@16 colours.

The most common response to help questions on the Debian mailing list is "n00b, READ THE FUCKING MANUAL, you idiot, go back to WINDOWS XP if you can't learn to use dselect", true too, search the archives if you think I'm lying. Other distros give you comprehensive PRINTED MANUALS, PHONE SUPPPORT and/or freindly forums where repling RTFM gets you banned!

Debians support for any decent hardware, including USB mice, scanners, Sound cards, heck even Serial devices struggle. If you can even get 80x25 text mode with PS/2 input devices you are really lucky.

Apt-get has many flaws. First of all it uses a non standard package format (the rest of the world uses RPM, deprecate the DEB format!), has broken respetories, and out of date software to install. All this combined with the kludgey dselect user interface make package management a nightmare.

And if you think I'm joking about this, find out why THOUSANDS of Debian users are switching to REAL distributions Debian is falling to pieces, if it is to survive any market share it will be through its superior forks (Xandros, Lindows, K/G-noppix) and unoffical package respetories.

Of course, while all this is going on, the only thing the Debian maintainers do is argue about politics on the mailing lists. The distribution decays while its creators argue over inane details like software licensing and the virtues of Marxism. Please! Spare me the political rhetoric and just give me a working distro!

Don't get me wrong, I love Linux, and I'm happily using distros such as Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo and Fedora. But I'm sick to death of zealots that push obsolete Distros on me EVERY FREAKING TIME linux is mentioned. I'm speaking from real world experiance here.

Open source may be good, but there is one example that sticks out like a sore thumb as a problem with open source. Debian gnu/Linux. It is offically the Worst Linux Distribution ever made.

First of all, Debian has the most out of date software packages of any major mainstream distros. Even in the unstable version, is KDE 2.2 and Gnome 2.0, with Xfree86 4.1 (A version that really sucks). There are literally years that pass between each update of Debian.

Secondly, its a pain in the goatse to set up, first of all, you are forced to use Kernel 2.2, which is horribly hacked with "backports" to get any use on any modern machine (Read, made after 1999). Good luck memorizing all the *.ko files in /lib/modules, as you are going to need it.

Configuring XFree86 is hell! If you don't have a Thick X11 orilley book, and a list of your horizontal sync values from your monitor's intruction manual (if you even have one), BOOM! There goes your monitor.

Even then, good luck getting anything over 640x480@16 colours.

The most common response to help questions on the Debian mailing list is "n00b, READ THE FUCKING MANUAL, you idiot, go back to WINDOWS XP if you can't learn to use dselect", true too, search the archives if you think I'm lying. Other distros give you comprehensive PRINTED MANUALS, PHONE SUPPPORT and/or freindly forums where repling RTFM gets you banned!

Debians support for any decent hardware, including USB mice, scanners, Sound cards, heck even Serial devices struggle. If you can even get 80x25 text mode with PS/2 input devices you are really lucky.

Apt-get has many flaws. First of all it uses a non standard package format (the rest of the world uses RPM, deprecate the DEB format!), has broken respetories, and out of date software to install. All this combined with the kludgey dselect user interface make package management a nightmare.

And if you think I'm joking about this, find out why THOUSANDS of Debian users are switching to REAL distributions Debian is falling to pieces, if it is to survive any market share it will be through its superior forks (Xandros, Lindows, K/G-noppix) and unoffical package respetories.

Of course, while all this is going on, the only thing the Debian maintainers do is argue about politics on the mailing lists. The distribution decays while its creators argue over inane details like software licensing and the virtues of Marxism. Please! Spare me the political rhetoric and just give me a working distro!

Don't get me wrong, I love Linux, and I'm happily using distros such as Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo and Fedora. But I'm sick to death of zealots that push obsolete Distros on me EVERY FREAKING TIME linux is mentioned. I'm speaking from real world experiance here.

The specs of the machine were in his first article.

It's the 333 MHz processor with the 2 MB cache. (The same one that's in the U10 I'm using right now, by the way).

Sadly, I took one glance at the screenshot in the upper-right hand corner, and knew I would be reading a Eugenia article.

She continues to base a useable desktop by how many windows she can open at once. Skip the article, and read the reviews from the /. posters. FreeBSD 5.2 is rock solid, as any Unix, Linux, box would be. Every port in the ports tree has a pkd_add to go along with it. That's 10,000 precompiles binary ready to download. They all install, deinstall, with near zero user interaction.

In short, use FreeBSD.

Take a look at this exchange between a poster and the reviewer:

Poster: "AVIdeMux - A kind of weird-looking app" just doesn't cut it as a description of a program's strengths and shortcomings, especially in a piece that claims to be about the "state" of a field. Have you actually tried it? Or did you just rate based on the screen shots?"

Eugenia: "I did not try AVideMux yet, but based on these shots and feature description I don't want to use it either. It really does not feel as welcome like iMovie or even Moviemaker do."

This guy is a known plagarist. He has stolen this off of the OS News website comments section.

Mod down plagarism.

64-bit versus 32-bit

Here's a little something to make you shit yourselves:

http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=5758.

Quoting the article (Page 3):

"
6. What are the main differences of your product when compared to the ones of your two main competitors, Lycoris and Xandros?

Kevin Carmony: We only have one competitor that we care about, and that's Microsoft. No one else has enough market share to bother with. You could take all the Linux desktop users from Red Hat, SuSE, Xandros, Lycoris, Mandrake, etc., and it wouldn't be enough to keep any of us in business for long. The only thing I'd say about LindowsOS, as it compares to other Linux distributions, is that we focus exclusively on the desktop/laptop and go the extra mile to make Linux ultra easy to use. Some Linux users scoff when they see things in LindowsOS like our Audio Tutorials which tell a user how to Launch a program, but 95% of the world needs that sort of ease of use. We have 65 full-time employees (the vast majority of those being engineers) who do nothing but eat, sleep, and drink desktop/laptop Linux. I hope it shows. I'm confident it does.

I'd suggest the best way to know how we are different is to give LindowsOS a try, and since OSNews was kind enough to ask me these questions and post my answers, we'd like to give everyone reading this a free digital copy of LindowsOS. Simply go to http://lindows.com/buyit and select the digital copy of the LindowsOS Developer's Edition. When you check out, use the coupon code "IReadOSNews" and you'll get this $59.95 program for free. The coupon code will only be good for a day or two, so that we don't go completely broke as this coupon code gets passed around. I apologize in advance if by the time you read this, you missed out on this offer. =) (You're also welcome to choose the packaged version, but you'll have to pay the extra $10 for the packaging as well as shipping and handling. Just use the same coupon code and it will deducted $59.95 from the $69.95 cost. If you get the free digital version, you download an .iso and burn your own CD.)

"

I got my copies. How about the rest of you fucktards?

Why pay for the CD when you can get it free (and legally).

No really

Some people just love a slashdotting (Or Eugining in this case)..

Debian is Slow, Worse, Expensive

Open source may be good, but there is one example that sticks out like a sore thumb as a problem with open source. Debian gnu/Linux. It is offically the Worst Linux Distribution ever made.

First of all, Debian has the most out of date software packages of any major mainstream distros. Even in the unstable version, is KDE 2.2 and Gnome 2.0, with Xfree86 4.1 (A version that really sucks). There are literally years that pass between each update of Debian.

Secondly, its a pain in the goatse to set up, first of all, you are forced to use Kernel 2.2, which is horribly hacked with "backports" to get any use on any modern machine (Read, made after 1999). Good luck memorizing all the *.ko files in /lib/modules, as you are going to need it.

Configuring XFree86 is hell! If you don't have a Thick X11 orilley book, and a list of your horizontal sync values from your monitor's intruction manual (if you even have one), BOOM! There goes your monitor.

Even then, good luck getting anything over 640x480@16 colours.

The most common response to help questions on the Debian mailing list is "n00b, READ THE FUCKING MANUAL, you idiot, go back to WINDOWS XP if you can't learn to use dselect", true too, search the archives if you think I'm lying. Other distros give you comprehensive PRINTED MANUALS, PHONE SUPPPORT and/or freindly forums where repling RTFM gets you banned!

Debians support for any decent hardware, including USB mice, scanners, Sound cards, heck even Serial devices struggle. If you can even get 80x25 text mode with PS/2 input devices you are really lucky.

Apt-get has many flaws. First of all it uses a non standard package format (the rest of the world uses RPM, deprecate the DEB format!), has broken respetories, and out of date software to install. All this combined with the kludgey dselect user interface make package management a nightmare.

And if you think I'm joking about this, find out why THOUSANDS of Debian users are switching to REAL distributions Debian is falling to pieces, if it is to survive any market share it will be through its superior forks (Xandros, Lindows, K/G-noppix) and unoffical package respetories.

Of course, while all this is going on, the only thing the Debian maintainers do is argue about politics on the mailing lists. The distribution decays while its creators argue over inane details like software licensing and the virtues of Marxism. Please! Spare me the political rhetoric and just give me a working distro!

Don't get me wrong, I love Linux, and I'm happily using distros such as Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo and Fedora. But I'm sick to death of zealots that push obsolete Distros on me EVERY FREAKING TIME linux is mentioned. I'm speaking from real world experiance here.

Apparently much of SkyOS is built on GPLed Software.

From reading your link, it does seem that there is a question about some of the SkyOS licensed software being modified from GPL sources.

I also found few references to SkyOS as an open-source project on Google, as well as more than one article about possible gpl violations.

It may be all a big misunderstanding, or it may be that SkyOS is indeed built of modified PGL sourcees.

Does anyone have a link to the SkyOS license? It is refered to on thier download page (see above link), but I haven't been able to find a copy of it anywhere.

Moderated-down comments for news story # 5648

By Assimil8or (IP: ---.dclient.hispeed.ch) - Posted on 2004-01-13 21:35:54 Unlike many other free software projects, GStreamer was not a simple re-implementation of something which had been done before.
I'm really very sorry to have to tell you so, but you didn't ;) Just take a look at the BeOS/Zeta MediaKit .. =)

By Eugenia (IP: ---.client.comcast.net) - Posted on 2004-01-13 21:38:52
The BeOS Media Kit is not "free software". Please reply correctly without plagariazing.

Oh yah recently my laptop experienced a big weight dropped on it from over a meter. As a result there is a crack on both sides of it, but it still functions(except for the bent memory stick slot).

Who needs booth girls?! Here on Slashdot we have Eugenia to drool over!

I think this is a pretty good analysis. The very fact that it is non-partisan is a blessing. As a Java web app developer, I notice that if I take a subset of the graph for int and I/O operations, Java is quite competitive (#1 for the sum of those two metrics) with the other platforms. The trig stuff seems to really skew the results.

Imagine a place
Where all the trolls play
To rape penguins,
Throw rotten fruit,
To smash the windows,
and to get stung by bees.

Imagine a place
Where you can't get moderated down for obvious flamebait
Where the report abuse function dosent work
But when you attack the Queen Be, you get flamed to a crisp

Imagine a place, where Xandros is always reviewed
Where Gnome trolls bash KDE
Where Macs whack Gnomes
Where Slackware and Debian trolls murder their own mothers

That place is real, and its called Eugenia's Trolling supersite, OSnews.com!

i photoshop user interfaces all day, so forgive me for not having the energy for visually articulating this idea...

the idea was inspired by Suggestion 3. if you go and read the discussion thread about this, the idea was actually to implement a FILTER rather than a SEARCH. i find this articulation a bit silly really because SEARCH implies a global search not a filter.. which made me think:

if you had a really simple dialog box that had a search capability you could just start typing in "hilton pari". in the background one just interrogates the slocate database and starts to put all items that start with "hilto..." in a list view below. the list view should display the parent folder of that element with a hyperlink/expander of sorts to illustrate the full path to that file.

furthermore if you abstracted this functionality, you could offer the same global search capabilities across filenames in the "recent documents" interface. so this would extend the search boundary to elements that are possibly not in your slocate database (SMB shared docs for example).

there would still be browing capabilities to allow users to do regular browsing of CD, Network etc... but i just thought this would be a highly Googleian way of opening files.

Eugenia Loli-Query, Editor in Chief of OSNews and regular /. poster

HH
--

what does sending him/her love have to do with saving my files?

Well, in the case of her if you don't know, then you and your parents missed a very important conversation.

In the case of him it probably doesn't have a whole lot to do with it, even if evidence presented in Jurassic Park is to the contrary.

In all seriousness, I believe it is referring to the maintaner of OSNews. I believe it is a she, and they post quite a few UI mockups on their site, and some constructive discussion usually follows.

Kernel 2.6.1-RC1 has just been released. HUGE Changelog. Worth checking out if you are interested in the 2.6 series.

Debian is Slow, Worse, Expensive

Open source may be good, but there is one example that sticks out like a sore thumb as a problem with open source. Debian gnu/Linux. It is offically the Worst Linux Distribution ever made.

First of all, Debian has the most out of date software packages of any major mainstream distros. Even in the unstable version, is KDE 2.2 and Gnome 2.0, with Xfree86 4.1 (A version that really sucks). There are literally years that pass between each update of Debian.

Secondly, its a pain in the goatse to set up, first of all, you are forced to use Kernel 2.2, which is horribly hacked with "backports" to get any use on any modern machine (Read, made after 1999). Good luck memorizing all the *.ko files in /lib/modules, as you are going to need it.

Configuring XFree86 is hell! If you don't have a Thick X11 orilley book, and a list of your horizontal sync values from your monitor's intruction manual (if you even have one), BOOM! There goes your monitor.

Even then, good luck getting anything over 640x480@16 colours.

The most common response to help questions on the Debian mailing list is "n00b, READ THE FUCKING MANUAL, you idiot, go back to WINDOWS XP if you can't learn to use dselect", true too, search the archives if you think I'm lying. Other distros give you comprehensive PRINTED MANUALS, PHONE SUPPPORT and/or freindly forums where repling RTFM gets you banned!

Debians support for any decent hardware, including USB mice, scanners, Sound cards, heck even Serial devices struggle. If you can even get 80x25 text mode with PS/2 input devices you are really lucky.

Apt-get has many flaws. First of all it uses a non standard package format (the rest of the world uses RPM, deprecate the DEB format!), has broken respetories, and out of date software to install. All this combined with the kludgey dselect user interface make package management a nightmare.

And if you think I'm joking about this, find out why THOUSANDS of Debian users are switching to REAL distributions Debian is falling to pieces, if it is to survive any market share it will be through its superior forks (Xandros, Lindows, K/G-noppix) and unoffical package respetories.

Of course, while all this is going on, the only thing the Debian maintainers do is argue about politics on the mailing lists. The distribution decays while its creators argue over inane details like software licensing and the virtues of Marxism. Please! Spare me the political rhetoric and just give me a working distro!

Don't get me wrong, I love Linux, and I'm happily using distros such as Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo and Fedora. But I'm sick to death of zealots that push obsolete Distros on me EVERY FREAKING TIME linux is mentioned. I'm speaking from real world experiance here.

http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=4447 Try this for a brief description ;)

A 2.6 distro will probably feel quite snappy on modern (1Ghz+) machines (RH9 is still 2.4 based with a few patches to reduce latency but there is no kernel preemption and that makes a noticible difference).

Robert Love pointed out that BeOS often traded throughput for latency (point 2) coupled with that fact it was highly threaded for its reknowed responsiveness. On weaker (PII or less) machines I suspect BeOS will always feel faster but there will come a point where CPUs context switch so quickly extra effort beyond preemption will not be worth the effort.

By the way, most desktop OSes these days have preemptive multitasking. It is only older OSes such as OS9 and Windows 3.11 which do not.

Seconded. Apple laptops draw between 45-65W nowadays, which is wonderful compared to x86 laptops which typically draw twice as much. The PPC line of CPUs are simply more energy efficient, as is the power management code in OS X. They are reasonably peppy to boot. Apple laptops generally have 4-5 hour battery life per charge (excluding watching a DVD or some other power-draining activity).

Yes, quite a few are frequently discussed on osnews for example ... at last 'count', there were about 100 or so different OS'es you could run on Intel hardware, and have a relative safe 'source code visibility' scenario as well.

Also, there is quite a thriving industry surrounding kernels and 'cocktail cpus', you know, the 32-bit low-power 'dsp-ish' stuff driving your cell phone and all that ... lots of options, if you know what it is to look for.

My point is though, if Linux goes down (as if) there are plenty and plenty of options for new OS kernel development. And anyway, maybe it'd be -worth- the effort to have to kick back to lesser kernels in any sort of 'open source vs. the world' scenario, you know?

Far as I can tell, from my position anyway, the true fronteer for computing is somewhere betwen open source and custom silicon development going personal...

• First
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What does integrated mean? I love it when zealots throw around buzzwords.
>>>>>>>>>>>
Integrated means that its all designed in one way, with one set of conventions, documented in one place. The GNOME API is built out of different components that are different in origin, and thus do not always behave the same.

Because ABIWORD doesn't use GNOME-VFS, whereas Ximian's version of OpenOffice does... what's your point?
>>>>>>>>>>
What use is GNOME-VFS if nothing uses it? GEdit doesn't appear to use it either, and its an app released by the GNOME project! In KDE, all KDE apps use KIO, because its basically a requirement for using the file dialog.

That Abiword isn't too clued up? Are we comparing apps or infrastructure.
>>>>>>>>>
The apps are a function of the infrastructure. If the infrastructure is high quality and easy to use, apps will use it. GNOME has more developers than KDE, yet KDE apps are far more likely to use niceties like KIO. Tell me why that is, if not because the KDE technologies are better/easier? This was basically the problem with Bonobo. It was so complex and overengineered, that no apps really wanted to use it. If apps don't want to use the infrastructure you provide, that infrastructure is flawed.

No, it is not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yes it is. Aside from application load time, Qt's handling of redraw is a lot better than GTK+'s. Check out the gnomedesktop.org thread on the Dec. 7 GNOME summary. There are a lot of GNOME'ers complaining about GTK+'s performance. Also check the gnomedesktop.org thread about the interview with Owen Taylor, he gets a question about GTK+'s performance. Also, the guy who wrote Sylpheed complained about the huge performance drop from GTK 1.x to GTK 2.x, and was reluctant to port Sylpheed to 2.x because of it.

I've also written about it several times:

Here (last comment on page)

And here (search for 21:26:30 on the page)

WTF? GTK is a graphics toolkit, not a bloated attempt to make all platforms look alike, unlike Qt. Compare like with like... or crawl back into your zealot hole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Qt has more GUI-related features too. Just take a look at the GTK+ 2.4 feature plan. Qt + KDE has pretty much all of these already! Stuff like (edits mine):

File selector (we have to get this one) (#29087)
Combo widget (#50554)
New action-based menu API (#55393)
Toolbar improvements (#55393) (ed. editable)
Autocompletion and history for GtkEntry(#69613)
XCursor support for GDK. (#69436)

No, it's not... no more than DCOP is modelled on the dozens of other simple component systems that went before.
>>>>>>>>>>>
Geez. Learn what you're talking about! Neither DCOP nor D-BUS are component systems. They're IPC mechanisms. And D-BUS was modeled closely after DCOP because a lot of KDE people had hand in D-BUS, and since KDE was the only desktop that used IPC to any significant degree, to make it easy to switch over from DCOP. Havoc Pennington said on a mailing list message that D-BUS was so similar to DCOP that it would be harder to get the GNOME developer onboard than the KDE ones. And if you believe that DCOP is simplistic, than don't hold any hope for D-BUS, because D-BUS's functionality is just an extension of DCOP.

Well, a good way to check would be to run GNOME and then take a look at Gconf's app schema. But then, you've never actually run GNOME, have you.
>>>>>>>>>
I have it installed right now. I check it out every time a new release comes out to see how it has improved. For a moment with 2.4, I thought the speed issues had been fixed, until I realized that they were only mas

What does integrated mean? I love it when zealots throw around buzzwords.
>>>>>>>>>>>
Integrated means that its all designed in one way, with one set of conventions, documented in one place. The GNOME API is built out of different components that are different in origin, and thus do not always behave the same.

Because ABIWORD doesn't use GNOME-VFS, whereas Ximian's version of OpenOffice does... what's your point?
>>>>>>>>>>
What use is GNOME-VFS if nothing uses it? GEdit doesn't appear to use it either, and its an app released by the GNOME project! In KDE, all KDE apps use KIO, because its basically a requirement for using the file dialog.

That Abiword isn't too clued up? Are we comparing apps or infrastructure.
>>>>>>>>>
The apps are a function of the infrastructure. If the infrastructure is high quality and easy to use, apps will use it. GNOME has more developers than KDE, yet KDE apps are far more likely to use niceties like KIO. Tell me why that is, if not because the KDE technologies are better/easier? This was basically the problem with Bonobo. It was so complex and overengineered, that no apps really wanted to use it. If apps don't want to use the infrastructure you provide, that infrastructure is flawed.

No, it is not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Yes it is. Aside from application load time, Qt's handling of redraw is a lot better than GTK+'s. Check out the gnomedesktop.org thread on the Dec. 7 GNOME summary. There are a lot of GNOME'ers complaining about GTK+'s performance. Also check the gnomedesktop.org thread about the interview with Owen Taylor, he gets a question about GTK+'s performance. Also, the guy who wrote Sylpheed complained about the huge performance drop from GTK 1.x to GTK 2.x, and was reluctant to port Sylpheed to 2.x because of it.

I've also written about it several times:

Here (last comment on page)

And here (search for 21:26:30 on the page)

WTF? GTK is a graphics toolkit, not a bloated attempt to make all platforms look alike, unlike Qt. Compare like with like... or crawl back into your zealot hole.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Qt has more GUI-related features too. Just take a look at the GTK+ 2.4 feature plan. Qt + KDE has pretty much all of these already! Stuff like (edits mine):

File selector (we have to get this one) (#29087)
Combo widget (#50554)
New action-based menu API (#55393)
Toolbar improvements (#55393) (ed. editable)
Autocompletion and history for GtkEntry(#69613)
XCursor support for GDK. (#69436)

No, it's not... no more than DCOP is modelled on the dozens of other simple component systems that went before.
>>>>>>>>>>>
Geez. Learn what you're talking about! Neither DCOP nor D-BUS are component systems. They're IPC mechanisms. And D-BUS was modeled closely after DCOP because a lot of KDE people had hand in D-BUS, and since KDE was the only desktop that used IPC to any significant degree, to make it easy to switch over from DCOP. Havoc Pennington said on a mailing list message that D-BUS was so similar to DCOP that it would be harder to get the GNOME developer onboard than the KDE ones. And if you believe that DCOP is simplistic, than don't hold any hope for D-BUS, because D-BUS's functionality is just an extension of DCOP.

Well, a good way to check would be to run GNOME and then take a look at Gconf's app schema. But then, you've never actually run GNOME, have you.
>>>>>>>>>
I have it installed right now. I check it out every time a new release comes out to see how it has improved. For a moment with 2.4, I thought the speed issues had been fixed, until I realized that they were only mas

Debian is Slow, Worse, Expensive

Open source may be good, but there is one example that sticks out like a sore thumb as a problem with open source. Debian gnu/Linux. It is offically the Worst Linux Distribution ever made.

First of all, Debian has the most out of date software packages of any major mainstream distros. Even in the unstable version, is KDE 2.2 and Gnome 2.0, with Xfree86 4.1 (A version that really sucks). There are literally years that pass between each update of Debian.

Secondly, its a pain in the goatse to set up, first of all, you are forced to use Kernel 2.2, which is horribly hacked with "backports" to get any use on any modern machine (Read, made after 1999). Good luck memorizing all the *.ko files in /lib/modules, as you are going to need it.

Configuring XFree86 is hell! If you don't have a Thick X11 orilley book, and a list of your horizontal sync values from your monitor's intruction manual (if you even have one), BOOM! There goes your monitor.

Even then, good luck getting anything over 640x480@16 colours.

The most common response to help questions on the Debian mailing list is "n00b, READ THE FUCKING MANUAL, you idiot, go back to WINDOWS XP if you can't learn to use dselect", true too, search the archives if you think I'm lying. Other distros give you comprehensive PRINTED MANUALS, PHONE SUPPPORT and/or freindly forums where repling RTFM gets you banned!

Debians support for any decent hardware, including USB mice, scanners, Sound cards, heck even Serial devices struggle. If you can even get 80x25 text mode with PS/2 input devices you are really lucky.

Apt-get has many flaws. First of all it uses a non standard package format (the rest of the world uses RPM, deprecate the DEB format!), has broken respetories, and out of date software to install. All this combined with the kludgey dselect user interface make package management a nightmare.

And if you think I'm joking about this, find out why THOUSANDS of Debian users are switching to REAL distributions Debian is falling to pieces, if it is to survive any market share it will be through its superior forks (Xandros, Lindows, K/G-noppix) and unoffical package respetories.

Of course, while all this is going on, the only thing the Debian maintainers do is argue about politics on the mailing lists. The distribution decays while its creators argue over inane details like software licensing and the virtues of Marxism. Please! Spare me the political rhetoric and just give me a working distro!

Don't get me wrong, I love Linux, and I'm happily using distros such as Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo and Fedora. But I'm sick to death of zealots that push obsolete Distros on me EVERY FREAKING TIME linux is mentioned. I'm speaking from real world experiance here.

Open source may be good, but there is one example that sticks out like a sore thumb as a problem with open source. Debian gnu/Linux. It is offically the Worst Linux Distribution ever made.

First of all, Debian has the most out of date software packages of any major mainstream distros. Even in the unstable version, is KDE 2.2 and Gnome 2.0, with Xfree86 4.1 (A version that really sucks). There are literally years that pass between each update of Debian.

Secondly, its a pain in the rear to set up, first of all, you are forced to use Kernel 2.2, which is horribly hacked with "backports" to get any use on any modern machine (Read, made after 1999). Good luck memorizing all the *.ko files in /lib/modules, as you are going to need it.

Configuring XFree86 is a pain! If you don't have a Thick X11 orilley book, and a list of your horizontal sync values from your monitor's intruction manual (if you even have one), BOOM! There goes your monitor.

Even then, good luck getting anything over 640x480@16 colours.

The most common response to help questions on the Debian mailing list is "n00b, READ THE MANUAL, you idiot, go back to WINDOWS XP if you can't learn to use dselect", true too, search the archives if you think I'm lying. Other distros give you comprehensive PRINTED MANUALS, PHONE SUPPPORT and/or freindly forums where repling RTM gets you banned!

Debians support for any decent hardware, including USB mice, scanners, Sound cards, heck even Serial devices struggle. If you can even get 80x25 text mode with PS/2 input devices you are really lucky.

Apt-get has many flaws. First of all it uses a non standard package format (the rest of the world uses RPM, deprecate the DEB format!), has broken respetories, and out of date software to install. All this combined with the kludgey dselect user interface make package management a nightmare.

And if you think I'm joking about this, find out why THOUSANDS of Debian users are switching to REAL distributions Debian is falling to pieces, if it is to survive any market share it will be through its superior forks (Xandros, Lindows, K/G-noppix) and unoffical package respetories.

Of course, while all this is going on, the only thing the Debian maintainers do is argue about politics on the mailing lists. The distribution decays while its creators argue over inane details like software licensing and the virtues of Marxism. Please! Spare me the political rhetoric and just give me a working distro!

Don't get me wrong, I love Linux, and I'm happily using distros such as Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo and Fedora. But I'm sick to death of zealots that push obsolete Distros on me EVERY FREAKING TIME linux is mentioned. I'm speaking from real world experiance here.

It shouldn't be too terrible. See the Very Verbose Guide to Updating and Compiling Your Debian Kernel.

Like usual, osnews.com beat you to it.

Well you mentioned it not me....

LindowsOS 4.5 was released today!

Actually, it's not Kontrol Center. You can see in this screenshot that it's just Control Center. The binary file is kcontrolcenter. The author just got carried away.

As others have pointed out, there are countless iApps and WinApps for their respective platforms. It's a name recognition thing.

I'm really a Gnome fan.
I was thinking that KDE was a bit bloated, a bit ofuscated..
I explain my choice in this Perfect Desktop text

But I must agree that KDE 3.2 seems to be really on the good way and I think I will try it the day of the release. Good Job KDE people. I really like the plastic theme. IMHO, keramik was "fat".

Well, I find this screenshot really interesting.
Don't you think that Gnumeric is more "easy " than Kspread ? There's two rows of icons in Gnumeric : File icons and actions icons.
In Kspread is not so easy, you have icons anywhere.. that's really the bad point of KDE for me and why I prefer Gnome for beginners. Think about it.

Anyway.. Good job guys !

PS : anyway, gnome and KDE aren't anything ! I can't live without FVWM .

Debian is Slow, Worse, Expensive

Open source may be good, but there is one example that sticks out like a sore thumb as a problem with open source. Debian gnu/Linux. It is offically the Worst Linux Distribution ever made.

First of all, Debian has the most out of date software packages of any major mainstream distros. Even in the unstable version, is KDE 2.2 and Gnome 2.0, with Xfree86 4.1 (A version that really sucks). There are literally years that pass between each update of Debian.

Secondly, its a pain in the goatse to set up, first of all, you are forced to use Kernel 2.2, which is horribly hacked with "backports" to get any use on any modern machine (Read, made after 1999). Good luck memorizing all the *.ko files in /lib/modules, as you are going to need it.

Configuring XFree86 is hell! If you don't have a Thick X11 orilley book, and a list of your horizontal sync values from your monitor's intruction manual (if you even have one), BOOM! There goes your monitor.

Even then, good luck getting anything over 640x480@16 colours.

The most common response to help questions on the Debian mailing list is "n00b, READ THE FUCKING MANUAL, you idiot, go back to WINDOWS XP if you can't learn to use dselect", true too, search the archives if you think I'm lying. Other distros give you comprehensive PRINTED MANUALS, PHONE SUPPPORT and/or freindly forums where repling RTFM gets you banned!

Debians support for any decent hardware, including USB mice, scanners, Sound cards, heck even Serial devices struggle. If you can even get 80x25 text mode with PS/2 input devices you are really lucky.

Apt-get has many flaws. First of all it uses a non standard package format (the rest of the world uses RPM, deprecate the DEB format!), has broken respetories, and out of date software to install. All this combined with the kludgey dselect user interface make package management a nightmare.

And if you think I'm joking about this, find out why THOUSANDS of Debian users are switching to REAL distributions Debian is falling to pieces, if it is to survive any market share it will be through its superior forks (Xandros, Lindows, K/G-noppix) and unoffical package respetories.

Of course, while all this is going on, the only thing the Debian maintainers do is argue about politics on the mailing lists. The distribution decays while its creators argue over inane details like software licensing and the virtues of Marxism. Please! Spare me the political rhetoric and just give me a working distro!

Don't get me wrong, I love Linux, and I'm happily using distros such as Mandrake, SuSE, Gentoo and Fedora. But I'm sick to death of zealots that push obsolete Distros on me EVERY FREAKING TIME linux is mentioned. I'm speaking from real world experiance here.