Xandros version 2

An anonymous reader writes "Xandros is now shipping version 2 of their Desktop Linux distro and it's also possible to purchase a download version. Based on Debian (sarge), KDE 3.1.4, 2.4.22 kernel. Cool CD burning is integrated into the Xandros File manager. Screenshots are here."

Comments

Mmmm.. prety butans

[__aavhli5779]

Being primarily a Mac user and hence a whore for pretty interfaces (or really bare interfaces, like the GNUstep interface I use on my linux box), the first thing that came to mind is that Xandros has done a once-over on KDE almost like Ximian did for Gnome. Their theme isn't quite as lickably pretty as Industrial, but it's close, and it looks like they've certainly managed to at least even with them in terms of integration (well, sans the customized OpenOffice which is one of the key perks of Ximian).

Re:Mmmm.. prety butans

[rokzy]

looks like they're copying Windows as much as possible, which isn't a bad thing for making people more comfortable with switching, but things like the Xandros logo running up the start menu are just an annoying waste of space (imo). Also I don't like the small Windows-style taskbar, but the other screenshots looked quite nice and clean.

Re:Mmmm.. prety butans

[gh0ul]

Being involved in the Linux community since the early 90's, I've watched many desktop enviroments evolve, Xandros still looks like it has a ways to go, as far as "pretty"

unlike Ximian they still havent matured, however they are still alive and beating, which is always good for the Linux community.

Re:Mmmm.. prety butans

[mgpeter]

(well, sans the customized OpenOffice which is one of the key perks of Ximian)

This one makes no sense because they are using debian sarge as their base. Debian Sarge does implement all of the ximian patches into its openoffice.org version. Why would Xandros not include the Debian Sarge version since those patches, although adds little functionality to Openoffice.org, does make it seem quite a bit easier to run because of all of the prety butans.

Mod up for the anonymous coward!

[Anonymous Coward]

XANDROS DESKTOP OS VERSION 2 NOW SHIPPING

"Don't compare Xandros with Windows, compare Windows with Xandros!"

New York, December 16th, 2003 - Xandros, Inc., the leading developer of easy-to-use Linux solutions for the desktop market, today announced the general availability of version 2 of the Xandros Desktop OS. With a strong user focus, Xandros Desktop 2 offers an intuitive, elegant, graphical environment that installs with four clicks of a mouse. Xandros Desktop 2 provides industry-leading integration with Microsoft Windows programs and networks, plus new usability enhancements such as drag-and-drop CD burning in Xandros File Manager.

Outstanding features in Xandros Desktop 2 include:

*
Four-click installation with automatic disk partitioning
*
Industry-leading hardware detection & configuration
*
Drag-and-drop CD burning in Xandros File Manager
*
Ability to run Microsoft Office and other key Windows programs (Deluxe only)
*
Seamless sharing of files and resources on Windows networks
*
Single-click access to a huge inventory of free Linux software

This all-new creation from the Xandros engineering team takes desktop computing to a new level of elegance and ease of use. "Don't compare Xandros with Windows, compare Windows with Xandros!" said Erwin Zijleman, beta tester and co-author of Corel Linux For Dummies. "Windows installation is easy, but installation of Xandros is even easier and a lot faster. Just insert the CD, boot your system, answer a couple of very easy questions and you've got a fast and stable multi-user operating system waiting for you in less than 15 minutes! I was then able to browse the Internet, send e-mail messages and listen to music, just by providing a couple of simple responses to the Xandros wizards. Is that impressive, or what?"

Erwin's experience highlights the fact that the Xandros engineering and quality assurance teams go to great lengths to assure that Xandros users enjoy a seamless, trouble-free desktop experience. "The Xandros team fixes bugs and makes sure that things work the way they should, whether the bug is in our own code or that of any other project included in the Xandros Desktop," says Ming Poon, VP of Software Development. "We want to make sure that our users have the best desktop experience."

Based on the "Sarge" version of Debian GNU/Linux, version 2 of the Xandros Desktop OS assures stability and security, along with the freedom that an open environment provides. The new release employs a Xandros-enhanced KDE 3.1.4 and an underlying 2.4.22 Linux kernel. For full product details please see www.xandros.com/products.html

NOW SHIPPING
Xandros Desktop OS Version 2 is available directly from the Xandros online store December 16th at www.xandros.com/shopping as well as from software retailers. The Deluxe Edition of Xandros Desktop OS carries a suggested retail price of USD $89.00. It includes a special Xandros edition of CrossOver Office 2.1 which lets you run Microsoft Office and other key Windows software, CrossOver Plugin to expand your Linux web browsing experience, the ability to allocate install space from a Windows XP (NTFS) partition, a 350 page User Guide (boxed version only), Disc 2 with bonus applications, games, and tools, and 60 days of e-mail support.

The recommended retail price for the Standard Edition, without the above mentioned Deluxe features and with 30 days of e-mail support, is USD $39.95.

DOWNLOADS AND UPGRADES AT XANDROS.COM
Users with high-speed connections can purchase and download both the Deluxe and Standard editions of Xandros Desktop 2 at www.xandros.com/. Current registered users of version 1.x of the Xandros Desktop OS can take advantage of limited-time upgrade offers available at the Xandros web site.

Re:Mod up for the anonymous coward!

[Kenja]

[Enter Troll Mode]
"Four-click installation with automatic disk partitioning"
No install options

"Industry-leading hardware detection & configuration"
We only detect the industry leading hardware

"Drag-and-drop CD burning in Xandros File Manager"
No options when burning CDs

"Ability to run Microsoft Office and other key Windows programs (Deluxe only)"
Runs some windows apps, but slow "Seamless sharing of files and resources on Windows networks"
Arp your windows network like a rabbid dog

"Single-click access to a huge inventory of free Linux software"
Chose from a huge inventory of free text editors.
[Exit Troll Mode]

Re:Mod up for the anonymous coward!

[Hatta]

Wtf is it with clicks? Why is a one click system better than a 9 click system? The more clicks you have the more options you're toggling and thus the greater configurability and power you have. The only way to get similar flexability out of a one click system is to put 200 buttons on one screen, and then you can't find anything. Sorry, clicking through a hierarchical decision tree is much better. Though a CLI is much better still.

Re:Mod up for the anonymous coward!

[Anonymous Coward]

I know your in troll mode, but you do know that everything you just said is false.

Re:Mod up for the anonymous coward!

[ThogScully]

No install options
This is a good thing for people who want to install a working desktop OS.

We only detect the industry leading hardware
I'd imagine it'll only be better than the last version they released, which was already quite good.

No options when burning CDs
Adding convenience doesn't always take away advanced features. xcdroast is only an apt-get away as well as cdrecord, or whatever your tool of choice is. But guess what, both are horribly over-complicated and I'll use CD Bake Oven any day over them.

Runs some windows apps, but slow
It's WINE/Crossover - who said it'd be slow?

Arp your windows network like a rabbid dog
And Windows doesn't?

Chose from a huge inventory of free text editors.
It's freaking Debian under the hood. That means thousands of everything available at just a few clicks.

Admittedly, you did indicate you were "entering troll mode," but you really think you're being some kind of valuable devil's advocate. Instead, you're just being misinformed and using /. as a soapbox to spread that misinformation as far as possible. Just accept that this isn't the distro for you and acknowledge it for what it is - a good desktop that really is useful to everyone else.
-N

I tried Xarandos once.

[rkz]

My experience with the first release was not all that amazing, I found them to be trying to emulate windows xp, very shabbly.

I also tried other distros and got a similar feel, for example Licoris in Lindows.

On the otherhand I tried Mepis linux recently and I found that despite being newbie friendly (I'm a linux newbie so I can speak with authority here) it remains very polished and simple to use, without trying to exactly copy winxp and failing.

Re:I tried Xarandos once.

[hatrisc]

it's the trend now to be like windows. people use windows. that's a fact. people are probably more willing to buy something that mimics windows. we live in a windows world. face it.

Re:I tried Xarandos once.

[Uma Thurman]

My thoughts exactly. If you're going to go through the trouble of making Linux look just like Windows, why not just use Windows?

We should not repeat the mistakes that others have made. If we follow that rule, it is logical to think that Linux should have window managers and desktops the do NOT look exactly like Windows, right down to the parts of the interface that should be discarded.

Re:I tried Xarandos once.

[WeblionX]

Though many live in a windowless basement.

Re:I tried Xarandos once.

[dongkiru]

Making it look like Windows is quite different from running Windows. We're talking about gui versus the engine running in the background.

Making it look like Windows, you make it easier for Windows people to transition while losing the vulnerability and license restrictions of Microsoft world.

Besides, what's really bad about the Windows gui interface?

Re:I tried Xarandos once.

[blixel]

If you're going to go through the trouble of making Linux look just like Windows, why not just use Windows?

Viruses?

Re:I tried Xarandos once.

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you ever looked at the file open/save dilogs? In a directory with lots of files/directorys with long names?

Have you ever wandered through 5-6 layers of dialogs looking for what seems like a simple setting?

Have you ever mis-clicked a menu item because the stupid "smart" menu moved all the items around in a cludge to combat poor UI design?

Have you ever used Windows?

Re:I tried Xarandos once.

[Uma Thurman]

I'm not mainly a Windows user, but I can offer this: When I'm working and clicking furiously, I really hate it when a window pops up to the top. Let's say that I'm writing something confidential, and AOL messenger pops up. I don't see it pop up, and I'm typing my confidential message into AOL's window for random joe to see. Not good.

Also, when that window pops up, it breaks my train of thought. Also not good.

Under Linux, the contents of windows may change, but they don't pop up, and the focus doesn't move from where I'm working until I say it moves.

Re:I tried Xarandos once.

[Kyouryuu]

I too am very happy with Mepis Linux. The only annoyance with it that I've run across is that it seems like the ATI Radeon drivers (for their more recent cards, like the 9700 and 9800) fail to work. I know it's challenging to make them work on a standard Debian install, let alone one with a customized kernel.

Re:I tried Xarandos once.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not mainly a Windows user, but I can offer this: When I'm working and clicking furiously, I really hate it when a window pops up to the top.

I do use Windows for nearly all my work, and I never see a window pop to the top without my specifically asking it to.

Let's say that I'm writing something confidential, and AOL messenger pops up.

That's easily solved - DON'T USE AOL MESSENGER. Presumably you use something else on Linux, why not use something else on Windows? Failing that, there's probably a setting somewhere that lets you turn that behaviour off.

Re:I tried Xarandos once.

[Haeleth]

Have you ever looked at the file open/save dilogs? In a directory with lots of files/directorys with long names?

Yes, that can be a bit inconvenient. Easily solved, though, by switching to a non-default viewing mode, like Details, which gives you all the options in a convenient vertical list. (Right click on the viewing area, select "View" submenu).

If I wanted to troll, I'd mention the GTK file selector at this point. But that's OT, since Xandros uses KDE.

Have you ever wandered through 5-6 layers of dialogs looking for what seems like a simple setting?

No, I haven't - the worst I've ever used was about three layers. But Linux suffers from this just as badly as Windows; the KDE control center is particularly bad. Even MacOS X, which some hold to be the pinnacle of GUI design, suffers from the same thing to a limited extent - I find its networking configuration window hopelessly muddled.

Have you ever mis-clicked a menu item because the stupid "smart" menu moved all the items around in a cludge to combat poor UI design?

Nope - "smart" menus are the first thing I turn off. I can't think of a single application with "smart" menus that doesn't make it incredibly easy to disable them.

Have you ever used Windows?

Have you ever bothered to spent five minutes learning how to configure Windows?

Don't get me wrong - I'm not a blind Windows apologist. The first thing I install on any Windows machine I use is Cygwin, to give me a usable CLI and some decent utilities, followed rather quickly by Firebird, to get me away from the security nightmare that is Internet Explorer. I just don't think the GUI is all that bad.

For their own sake, I do hope that...

[Anonymous Coward]

...I do hope that they do a bit of *marketing* for their product, I mean I hope they try to get people to know they exist. Crap, it always blew me away that so many companies put out a Linux distro, do absolutely zero marketing and then wonder why they can't sell their product or even get people to acknowledge they exist.

Do they even show up to their local LUG? That would be a start...

Re:For their own sake, I do hope that...

[mausmalone]

One day at your local LUG:

"We have this new version of Linux. It's based on Debian with KDE..... and it works just like Windows! Now you can have Windows without Microsoft!"
"Why would we want Windows?"

Most avid Linux users don't want a Linux that's just like windows, they want Linux. The point of this distro is to pull in people who like windows, but wanna try linux.

Re:For their own sake, I do hope that...

[Anonymous Coward]

umm... you do realise that lindows was originally based on technology licensed from xandros, right? Have you heard of lindows? I'm sure xandros sells plenty of 'product' in licensing, and nothing is better advertising than having a popular product containing a "powered by xandros" logo.

Re:For their own sake, I do hope that...

[kidlinux]

"Most avid Linux users don't want a Linux that's just like windows, they want Linux. The point of this distro is to pull in people who like windows, but wanna try linux."

You're assuming that LUGs only have "avid" Linux users. They might have a lot of newbies who aren't looking for the hardcore Linux experience. These people might just be interested in alternatives, and if something slick is available, they might give it a try.

The only way I could see the analogy of "Window without Microsoft" being reasonable is if it's only taken as far as the fact that they both have a graphical user interface. Because it's not really Windows without Microsoft - although for some people, that actually makes a big difference.

Re:For their own sake, I do hope that...

[Anonymous Coward]

FWIW, I do, infrequently, attend LUG events local to Xandros in Ottawa and they do show up. I remember them giving out copies of Xandros 1 before it was released, and it seemed pretty decent at the time.
I wish them all the best on this release as well.

Re:For their own sake, I do hope that...

[AigariusDebian]

I'd say "windows without MS" (mind the case)

new lindows soon?

[jest3r]

I guess this means a new version of Lindows soon since the current iteration of Lindows is based off of Xandros 1.0

Re:new lindows soon?

[ExodusMachine]

What gives you the idea that Lindows is based off of Xandros? Lindows is based on Debian, Xandros is also based on Debian, that is as close as the 2 meet.

Re:new lindows soon?

[jest3r]

Xandros is based on Debian yes .. but Lindows has its roots in Xandros and Codeweavers .. although I think their relationship is not what you would call stable at the moment .. but now Robertson needs something again ...

See Lindows history timeline here
as quoted:
Xandros (the distro Lindows is based off of, which was bought from Corel, which is based on Debian...)

Re:new lindows soon?

[Anonymous Coward]

I knew someone who worked at Xandros and they definately have negative feelings towards Lindows.

Apparently back in the day Xandros made a deal with Michael Robertson to give him rights to use the Xandros 1.0 codebase because Xandros had developed an installer and other desktop friendly features not available in Debian. Robertson never actually paid up or at least thats how the story goes.

Re:new lindows soon?

[Anonymous Coward]

that is as close as the 2 meet

You are incorrect. Lindows was / is based on Xandros which was / is Corel Linux.

Re:new lindows soon?

[greenskyx]

Well you mentioned it not me....

LindowsOS 4.5 was released today!

Re:new lindows soon?

[ExodusMachine]

My mistake, I actually found a better link that actually mentions Xandros licensing their core technology to Lindows.

Re:new lindows soon?

[TazQ]

Was. They have since massively diverged.

ultimately

[chef_raekwon]

ultimately this distro will have to stand the test of linux users -- is it usable, or just a pain in my ass to fix broken shit?

anyone used it?

is the installer just like Debian's?

Re:ultimately

[yamcha666]

Since the beta-period is over, I can say that I was a beta tester for Xandros 2.0, so I've had some first-hand experience with 2.0 already.

Is it usable? Very much so. I can't think of very many distro's, including Debian itself, that allow me to plug in a USB stick and instantly get a file manager window ala Windows XP.

In terms of fixing broken parts, if you can work your way around Debian, Xandros is very similar to the guts of Debian. You can use apt-get if you want to repair or upgrade the OS's packages or you can use Xandros Networks which is a front-end to apt-get but without all the geeky command-line extras. Pretty much everything is still in the same place. They still use the standard *NIX file system keeping the config files in /etc, keeping the binaries in /bin or /usr/bin. So all the geek stuff is still there. Xandros just puts a nice streamlined GUI on top of it all.

But thats enough geeking. Xandros is really for those who want to switch from Windows to an alternative OS. I've showed friends Xandros 2.0 Beta and they were pretty amazed. These are people who are e-mail checkers and Yahoo! fans. They all asked me to help get them a copy of Xandros 2.0. It's GUI is easy to follow, everything in the menu is in an organized easy to find place (cept some geeky tools), and their Xandros File Manager is brilliant.

Oh yea, and the installer is not like Debian. If I recall correctly, Debian has a text-based installer that is for geek-eyes only, right? Xandros gives the user a fully-graphical installer that requires them to click the mouse about four times, five tops, wait 10-15minutes, and they've got a fully working Debian-based distro running on their computer. No bells, no whistles. It just works - the installer that is.

So really, was it Xandros Inc's aim to please Linux users or to please Windows-converters and businesses looking to cut costs? As a Linux user, I am pleased at the simplicity of the GUI and the programs. I personally don't care about the latest or greatest - I'm similar to other computer users - I just want it to work. And Xandros 2.0 just works.

Re:ultimately

[Hatta]

Windows would fail that test badly. When something breaks in windows, it's so opaque generally the only recourse is to reinstall the entire system. With linux there are man pages, the -h flag, and config files to grep through. Programs actually give you meaningful error messages in linux, and the OS actually keeps a log of what it's doing. None of these things are available in windows, consequently I find windows a lot harder to use than linux.

Re:ultimately

[teprrr]

and their Xandros File Manager is brilliant.

Well, it's Konqueror, what else it could be but brilliant? ;)

Re:even their screenshots suck...

[AnonymousCowheart]

Yeah, the internet explorer icon on the desktop freaked me out!

CD Burning.....

[lexsco]

I hope these guys don't see this.

Re:A Distro of Debian....

[pebs]

Why can't Debian take from these projects and make their distro better?

Because some of the components are proprietary and closed source?

more info from distrowatch

[Janek Kozicki]

here you can check what packges, and in what versions are used in Xandros.

here are their forums.

and here are updates. Unfortunately you cannot download Xandros for free.

Re:more info from distrowatch

[Anonymous Coward]

what a unique method of gaining karma! I salute you for your creativity!

Re:more info from distrowatch

[Malor]

It is SO lame that they refuse to let you try the download version for free. I'm interested in Xandros, but there is no way I'm going to pay for a Linux distro I haven't thoroughly run through its paces.

And I pay for my software if I like it. I have given RedHat over 3 grand (including 2500 for an RHCE course a couple years ago [and MAN am I pissed at them for invalidating that investment by abandoning the market that spawned them]), and I've given Mandrake about $300. If I switched to Xandros and liked it, I'd absolutely support them.

They are, in other words, losing any chance at my money because they're not giving away their product.

Sheesh, no wonder regular companies have so much trouble understanding Linux. :-)

Re:more info from distrowatch

[yamcha666]

Quoted directly from Xandros.com:

A 30-day trial version of the Standard Edition of Xandros Desktop 2 will be available for download at www.xandros.com. The retail Standard and Deluxe editions will also be available for download.

Reference Link: http://www.xandros.com/release13.html

I believe thats what you wanted to know, yes?

Re:more info from distrowatch

[blixel]

I'm interested in Xandros, but there is no way I'm going to pay for a Linux distro I haven't thoroughly run through its paces.

I'm kind of in the same boat. But you'll be happy to know that there will be a 30 day trial version available shortly. I may break down and buy it anyway but I really want to have a look first. Some distributions are just disturbing.

Re:even their screenshots suck...

[sTalking_Goat]

yeah I noticed that too. seriously, that aint right!

Hrmm ?

[phoxix]

Isn't Xandros the company that took all the "Help --> About" dialog boxes of KDE apps, and replace the author's names with their own?

If this is true, then I'm rather disgusted.

Sunny Dubey

Re:Hrmm ?

[oddfox]

IIRC, that's Red Hat.

Re:Hrmm ?

[oddfox]

Sorry to reply to my own post, but a point of clarification: Red Hat removed the About KDE dialogs from KDE apps, that is all.

If anyone that uses Xandros or has used Xandros can comment, I'd like to hear it myself.

Re:Hrmm ?

[Anonymous Coward]

As a Xandros developer, I can assure you that all the about dialogs are still there.

Re:Hrmm ?

[TazQ]

The about boxes are somewhat customized, but author's named have not been removed.

Re:Hrmm ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't that make them in violation of the GPL (in addition to the charging for download)?

Re:Hrmm ?

[BurritoWarrior]

Why is the parent modded funny? Is this not what RH did for KDE apps when they went with Bluecurve?

Re:Hrmm ?

[Anonymous Coward]

The credits to KDE are there in the Help/About/... menu of kmail, kwrite, konsole, ksysguard, and so on... I have a Xandros copy, and yep, every KDE (and others) credits have been preserved. I don't know who told you they had been removed, but it ain't true.

X2 is a huge improvement

[Anonymous Coward]

As a Xandros user for over a year, and a beta tester for this release, I am highly impressed with what Xandros has done to make Linux installation and use both simple and easy for the average computer user.

If you have someone who you want to introduce Linux to, this distro is *it*. Gone are the days of 'Drake being the "newbie distro". I have installed Xandros on computers for people who can't even "cut and paste" without help, and gone for weeks and months without having a phone call from them for tech support. Really, its that easy. It's not for power users, it's the Linux distro that your grandmother can use.

Tear this post up, script kiddies, but I'm right about this...

Re:X2 is a huge improvement

[agentforsythe]

"not for power users" - out of the box, no... but I started with xandros 1.0, learned a great deal, tweaked everything to my heart's content, and now have a very nice debian based system that just happens to have once been xandros.

Re:X2 is a huge improvement

[Anonymous Coward]

Bull, this is a system for power users. A slick GUI doesn't mean it's wimpy.

Re:X2 is a huge improvement

[Anonymous Coward]

I have installed Xandros on computers for people who can't even "cut and paste" without help, and gone for weeks and months without having a phone call from them for tech support.

Wow, you mean it crashes their phone system too?!</troll>

Where's the source?

[stoolpigeon]

I'm not trying to troll or be a pain - just trying to understand

I was under the impression that if you created stuff with GPL software you have to make the source available.

I looked at the site- they explain that some parts of xandros are GPL and some are not. But I could not find anywhere that explained what you need to do to get copies of the code for the parts that are under the GPL.

Am I wrong in thinking that this is required?

Re:Where's the source?

[Anonymous Coward]

if you buy a copy, you'll be entitled to the source.
you can distribute it then for free, or for money as long as everything you redistribute is GPL (don't know about the icons etc.).

Re:Where's the source?

[Ice_Balrog]

They only have to provide the source to you if they give you binaries. The GPL doesn't state that if I make changes to the source I must give the source to everybody. It states that if I make changes to the source and give it to anybody, I must be give _them_ the source, and all the rights of the GPL.

Re:Where's the source?

[stoolpigeon]

So if someone buys this - they have a right to the source. And they can redistribute the GPL code without restrictions (other than the GPL)?

Re:Where's the source?

[farnz]

You have to give the source, or a written offer, valid for at least three years, to provide the source at no more than the cost of media, shipping and handling, to anyone you give a binary to.

Therefore, if the retail version comes with source, they're clear. If it comes with an appropriate written offer (e.g. source available for $10 S&H from this address, $30 if shipping outside the USA), they're clear. If it comes without source, and without an offer, they're not clear.

Re:Where's the source?

[Goyuix]

For that matter, their site claims to offer a 30 day free trial for download, but I couldn't find anything other than a passing reference to that, on their web or ftp site.

Granted, they have crossover office going and some other commercialized apps, so they rightfully should be able to charge for their product, but if they advertise a trial let me check it out. I can tell you right now, even for $30 I won't even give it a look.

Re:Where's the source?

[Trevelyan]

They only need to allow access to the source to those people they gave binaries. So unless you bought it that does not include you.

OTH people who bought it, and thus have such, can redistrobute it. BUT only those parts/programmes that are under the GPL, there is some non gpl (and the like) stuff in there afai can tell.

So if they did, they should be careful to strip out the xandros apps, which would be pointless since you just removed what made it xandros.

Re:Where's the source?

[DShard]

Minus any of their copywrited material. Truthfully I fail to see the need when you can get the same thing straight from debian without worry of having to remove such stuff. I am sure the valuable part of the os is their own closed source stuff, which is yet another reason to avoid them if you are a Free Software Zealot.

Re:Where's the source?

[stoolpigeon]

I see your point. I just was confused and wanted to understand the whole thing better and this seemed like a good opportunity. Having my question modded up is a bit embarassing. The question itself just displays what I didn't know. The correct answers have some value for anyone who misunderstood the situation like I did.

Re:Where's the source?

[DShard]

Not to worry and certainly nothing to be embarrassed about... the GPL is a lot less restrictive than it is made out to be. The key to a commercial distro is about the cherry on top, and not the two scoops of ice cream or the hot fudge. They keep to themselves that which isn't in the community at large, or at least which is poorly refined. As I see it that doesn't really amount to much.

The thing that I like the least about Debian based distros is the hiding the debian package management tools. This _is_ why I use debian almost exclusively on all my systems. These distros muck it up with click-n-run or xandros network when the cli or open ncurses and gtk/kde frontends already do the job so well. I may not be their audience though.

Re:Where's the source?

[stoolpigeon]

My Linux experience so far has been primarily Suse and RH. I've been using RH for about a year now at work and at home a bit. I'm no guru but I'm learning bit by bit.

I always hear about Debian and apt-get but I've never really payed too much attention, because if I understand correctly, they go out and download the packages and install them. I have a dial up at home so that doesn't really work for me.

Are there other advantages to Debian package management that have nothing to do with how you get the package to the machine? I have tried upgrading packages on a Red Hat box and quickly become frustrated with my inability to do so easily. In one way this is good- I had to learn to install from source. But on the other hand I would be all over something that made it easier.

Oh - and what I mean by not being able to do so easily is I'll want to upgrade package A but then I find out to do that I've got to upgrade package B and C and each of those need 3 other packages upgraded first and so on ad nauseum.

Re:Where's the source?

[TazQ]

The cds (the ones I have seen) have a URL printed on them where the source is available.

Re:Where's the source?

[DShard]

Having used/installed debian over a dialup, updating is really not that bad. I would suggest buying the cd's for sarge(testing) from whatever linux cd vendor you can trust (sorry no experience there) and update via dialup afterword. The power of debians package management is that it looks at package A, resolves it's dependencies, the dependencies dependencies and grabs them all and configures them.

You can set up your own package source on your local system so you can grab all the necissary packages from a location with more bandwidth and place them in your local repository and then install them. (I beleive it is "apt-get -s install " to get a list of what it would grab and install, but not actually do it.)

having said that there are some caveats to debian which I will be happy to discuss offline.

(sorry this is horribly OT)

Re:Where's the source?

[Anonymous Coward]

you can download the source from their Xandros Networks app.

Re:Where's the source?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are there other advantages to Debian package management that have nothing to do with how you get the package to the machine?

Yes, it solves the problem you describe below:

...I'll want to upgrade package A but then I find out to do that I've got to upgrade package B and C and each of those need 3 other packages upgraded first and so on ad nauseum.

It's called automatic dependency resolution. You install or upgrade package A and the system takes care of the rest. Debian's apt has done this forever. Lindows and Xandros use this technology but put a prettier face on it ("Click-N-Run" and "Xandros Networks").

Other distros do essentially the same thing these days - Mandrake has URPMI, Fedora is using yum for their up2date servers, etc.

Re:Where's the source?

[asit ler]

Gentoo has this as well. The ebuild file has an instruction that tells emerge what packages the package being merged depends on, and those packages' depends, and so on and so forth. Then it grabs the source code for those packages (or the binaries, if it's closed-source or demoware) and then compiles (or installs) the package, manages the libs, checks service dependencies if the package is a service, etc. Of course, there are non-source binary versions of specific packages, such as OpenOffice.org (compiling THAT from source would take forever and 3 days) and Firebird. Strangely enough, there isn't a binary package in the portage tree for XFree86, but I expect this is due to the Gentoo developers.

Gentoo's package management system allows for infinite levels of customization and optimization, while still allowing users to have pay or demo software (UT2K3 is in the portage tree, along with Quake 1, 2, 3 and all variants of Quake, as is America's Army, Wolfenstein 3D and all the other commercial first person shooter games that appeal to gamers with "1337" hardware and the best graphics cards out there. (I can't say that about my hardware, since I'm on a 1200MHz Celeron with a gig of SDRAM and 45 total GB of storage, and dual CD-RWs, but a shitty graphics card (ever used the Trident CyberBlade/i1 graphics card? Yeah. It's crap, and I recommend anyone who was even looking at getting a Trident graphics card for a modern machine be taken behind the woodshed and stabbed 35 times in the eye with a used plastic butter knife-- I'll lend you the knife, so long as I get exempted, since everything in this system came to me free of charge.)

Just wanted to add to your "other distros" bit, and also (begin shameless karma whoring) put in a plug for my latest favorite distro(end shameless karma whoring)

This space intentionally left filled.

Re:Where's the source?

[nathanh]

I was under the impression that if you created stuff with GPL software you have to make the source available... Am I wrong in thinking that this is required?

Yes, you are wrong. Stuff you created "with GPL software" is not required to be licensed under the GPL. Only derivative works that you distribute are required to be licensed under the GPL.

For example you could write an application with Emacs, compile it with GCC, debug it with GDB, and sell it bundled with the same CD as Linux, and not give your source code away. Perfectly OK.

I looked at the site- they explain that some parts of xandros are GPL and some are not. But I could not find anywhere that explained what you need to do to get copies of the code for the parts that are under the GPL.

The GPL only requires source code to be made available on demand. Have you asked them?

Re:Where's the source?

[nathanh]

Not to worry and certainly nothing to be embarrassed about... the GPL is a lot less restrictive than it is made out to be. The key to a commercial distro is about the cherry on top, and not the two scoops of ice cream or the hot fudge.

I've always thought the commercial distro is more like the tables, chairs, bowls, spoons, napkins and the overworked waitress who cleans up after you.

Getting Linux without a distro is like putting your hands out and having a scoop of icecream dumped in your palms. It's messy, even if you did get the same icecream.

Re:Where's the source?

[avdi]

Even if you're installing off a set of CDs, apt-get works brilliantly. Just tell it what you want to install, it figures out all the necessary dependencies, and asks you for the CDs it needs.

Of course, upgrading off the net is where it really shines - apt-get update; apt-get install; get a cup of coffee, and if it really needs to know anything before upgrading a package it'll ask you. No tedious hunting for RPMs, no downtime.

Re:Where's the source?

[Grizzlysmit]

I see your point. I just was confused and wanted to understand the whole thing better and this seemed like a good opportunity. Having my question modded up is a bit embarassing. The question itself just displays what I didn't know. The correct answers have some value for anyone who misunderstood the situation like I did.

Thats what you get for being polite, and asking questions people want answered :-D, maybe we need a good question +1 mod option.

Re:Where's the source?

[isoga]

The GPL only requires source code to be made available on demand. Have you asked them?

Not true -

3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2) in object code or executable form ...provided that you also do one of the following:

a) Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code...
b) Accompany it with a written offer...
c) Accompany it with the information you received as to the offer to distribute corresponding source code....

I don't know about the software

[Anonymous Coward]

but that hottie smiling at me is looking pretty good...yummy. Is she included in the retail version? :)

Re:I don't know about the software

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of self respecting pervert says 'yummy'.

Re:I don't know about the software

[Anonymous Coward]

you must learn to recognize the TYPE of smile.

she's looking at you and smirking.

"look at that goddamn dork again...he'll probably walk up any second and tell me he needs to inspect my cpu"

Re:I don't know about the software

[Anonymous Coward]

A really fat basement dweller?

Re:I don't know about the software

[Anonymous Coward]

Get.. in.. my.. belly!!

Crap utter crap.

[Steamhead]

Who would install linux just to make it look like windows? I for one thought it was to get away from that.

Re:Crap utter crap.

[WebMasterP]

I dunno, maybe they don't want to pay for their OS and then want something they can use without a lot of re-learning.

Re:Crap utter crap.

[JoshNet]

The goal of Xandros is to give the stability of a linux distro with the ease-of-use and familiarity of Windows. That's why it looks the way it does, you can't expect regular people to go into something brand new - you have to give them something familiar.

Re:Crap utter crap.

[oddfox]

Get a clue, looking like Windows does not equate to being Windows. If Linux is to become a viable solution for the mainstream desktop, which is what Xandros is aiming for (And not in any way prohibiting you from using whatever Linux variation you desire, from Gentoo to Debian to Slackware), it needs to emulate a familiar look at feel as well as adopt a more user-frienly interface that will enable newcomers and less-experienced computer users to have an alternative to Windows on the desktop (Phew, was that a run-on sentence or what?). And why on earth did you decide to use Linux instead of Windows because of how it looked?

Or maybe you should move to FreeBSD or one of the other *BSDs before you somehow get infected by this new virus of user-friendly Linux advancements.

I don't know why on earth I decided to feed such an obvious troll, but oh well.

Re:Crap utter crap.

[Steamhead]

I'm sorry to say this, but windows is one of the worst "user-friendly" operating systems, but this comes from a mac user so what can you expect eh?

Re:Crap utter crap.

[Anonymous Coward]

but this comes from a mac user so what can you expect eh?

A mac user? Cool. Hey man I have a 512MB memory module I'll sell you for $3 thousand. Even comes with a nice shiny box. And I'll throw in an autographed photo of Steve Jobs.

Re:Crap utter crap.

[Steamhead]

I am laughing at how bad that attempted insult was.

Re:Crap utter crap.

[jdray]

Don't forget the "wife factor." She has to be able to use it, too.

Xandros or Mandrake?

[rmm4pi8]

I'm currently a Mandrake 9.2 user, solidly wedded to KDE, and trying to decide what to upgrade my mother to from Win98. She needs crossover, for sure, but I'm not sure if I should stick with what I know and love ('drake) and just add crossover for her or whether something more integrated like Xandros would be appropriate.

Does it just boil down to whether I want debian or redhat compatibility? (I cant say i'm at all dissatisfied with urpmi, so apt-get isnt all that exciting). Any thoughts?

Re:Xandros or Mandrake?

[Telex4]

In my (very limited) experience, Xandros and Lindows aren't worth going for if you're going to set the PC up and you already know Mandrake.

Install Mandrake, carefully tailor it to her needs (so remove all apps that she won't need, add ones she will, clean up the menus, the desktop & the panel appropriately), clean up some of the KDE/GNOME toolbars and menus so they don't confuse her (or install KDE 3.2 beta2 ;P) and install WINE. There, you have something that is probably better than Xandros and Lindows, and that you have experience working with.

The after-install configuration really isn't that bad, and you can save yourself a lot of bother by backing up the KDE/GNOME configuration once you're done and using it as a skeleton for any more systems you set-up in the future, or in case you decide to move her to another distro afterall.

Re:Xandros or Mandrake?

[Qbertino]

I'm currently a Mandrake 9.2 user, solidly wedded to KDE, and trying to decide what to upgrade my mother to from Win98. She needs crossover, for sure, but I'm not sure if I should ... just add crossover for her or whether something more integrated like Xandros would be appropriate. ...
Any thoughts?

SuSE 9.0. It's got the crossover stuff too, but afaics in an extra addon package ( http://www.suse.com/us/private/products/suse_linux /winerack/index.html ). Blindly I'd choose SuSE Pro over any other distro.
If you have a chance, check both Xandros and SuSE and decide. Otherwise take SuSE.
My 2 Cents.

Re:Xandros or Mandrake?

[TwinkieStix]

This is commonly asked around the internet. The only way to answer this question, though, is to know WHY you are upgrading her. If you just want to upgrade her for the fun of it, then DON'T. She's probably happy with what she has, knows where everything is, and likes that it "just works" for her by now. Switching her to linux without trying to solve a problem will only make her not like what you did, if she notices the difference at all.

That aside. Assuming SHE wants to switch to Linux (any Linux) then I prefer Mandrake simply because it's one of the most widely used distributions out there. While not a monopoly by any means, it's so well supported by a relatively kind community that's willing to help. Most of the features listed for xandros exist in Mandrake. It takes a few more than 4 clicks to install, cd's can be burned from konqueror by right clicking on any folder one wishes to burn, windows programs run under any Linux if you purchase Crossover from mandrake club, file sharing in konqueror is accomplished by righ-clicking and choosing "share", (after turning sharing on from the right click-properties menu), and mandrake club has a large selection of files.

Re:Xandros or Mandrake?

[rmm4pi8]

well...i wouldnt say she's requested linux, but she seems equally afraid of xp, and 98 is just frustrating her to tears with dll hell, windows update constantly (we're in the country...28.8), and she seems unable to avoid spyware and virii..mind you i upped the security on IE, but she's willing to actually download and install things b/c a website or magazine tells her to and i havent been able to persuade her differently.

so linux seems worth a shot. given that i'm expert #10 on mandrakeexpert, i'm well aware of the community and the workability of mandrake, i'm not afraid of the installation. i have however found samba integration and wine performance to be iffy and tricky, and thats why i was considering xandros since it neatly integrates everything (or at least says it does).

Re:Xandros or Mandrake?

[blixel]

SuSE 9.0

I guess you're a SuSE guy eh? I was going to buy it but I noticed it ships with Gnome 2.2... Is there a SuSE online update that will quickly bring it to Gnome 2.4? I upgraded RedHat 9 from Gnome 2.2 to Gnome 2.4 and it wasn't pretty. Lots of rpm problems and what not. I ended up scrapping it and installing Fedora Core 1.

I downloaded the SuSE 9 FTP ISO image but couldn't get it to install. It never gets past the point of asking me what FTP server to use.

Re:Xandros or Mandrake?

[bondjamesbond]

Neither. Use FreeBSD 5.1rc1 with fluxbox. Everything compiles out of ports with little or no trouble.

Stop trying to emulate Windows XP/98/2000.

[Anonymous Coward]

Seeing those screenshots made me puke. I like KDE because it gives a unique blend of familarity with its own innovations. If you want to see the Real KDE, don't use Xandros. Use something like SuSE or Mandrake. Both very good distros for KDE fans.

Re:Stop trying to emulate Windows XP/98/2000.

[JoshNet]

Looks aren't everything! Xandros looks the way it does because the interface is familiar to normal consumers who regularly use Windows already or have seen it, it's easier to get them to use/look at Xandros if they're familiar with what they're seeing already.

Re:Stop trying to emulate Windows XP/98/2000.

[rolofft]

Before I knew anything about Unix/Linux, I wanted to set up a Linux system at home for a school project. Corel Linux (now Xandros) made it simple because it was set up to make sense to a Windows user. It was like going from IE to Firebird. They made it easy for you.

Most flame wars you read about user interface issues focus on the wrong thing. Windows is better because it gives you more ways to resize the window. So what? That's missing the point. The point is, does the UI respond to the user in the way in which the user expected it to respond? If it didn't, the user is going to feel helpless and out of control... - Joel Spolsky

Re:Stop trying to emulate Windows XP/98/2000.

[Anonymous Coward]

The "real" KDE?
It's just the theme they chose to use by default, you can change it if you want you know...

Re:A Distro of Debian....

[Anonymous Coward]

Debian's installer is propietary and closed source?

No wonder.. Not surprised about these hypocrites.

Re:A Distro of Debian....

[jest3r]

I think they do.

From what I have heard the developers at Xandros are working to get Debian LSB complient / certified.

Annoyances

[Goyuix]

As of version 1.1 Xandros didn't support (claimed it wouldn't even install) on a system that was multi-processor, or even on a newer P4 system with Hyperthreading enabled. Any ideas if these issues are addressed in version 2.0?

I can't see a good reason for not having something like that working at this stage in the game.

Re:Annoyances

[KRzBZ]

X2 will do both.

Re:Annoyances

[Anonymous Coward]

Did Xandros themselves claim this? Because it worked flawlessly on my dual athlon since version 1.0

Hmmm...been done before

[77Punker]

Easy to use and Debian based? Why would anyone use this when there's a free distro called Mepis that appears to do all of this already?

Re:Hmmm...been done before

[marshall_j]

I just had a look at some of the screenshots for Mepis. I gotta say that Xandros looks a lot more polished and for people switching from Windows (it's target audience I'm guessing) that's what they expect and need. N00bs need a bit of eye candy to make them feel at home sometimes ;)
That said I haven't used either, only checked the screenshots but there you go. *grain of salt*

Re:Hmmm...been done before

[eggsome]

The only reason I bought a copy of Xandros was for the integrated CrossOver office. Excellent Microsoft Office support (for those rare times when OpenOffice is not good enough).

Re:Hmmm...been done before

[Kyouryuu]

Mepis doesn't look terribly great, it's true, but it is a Debian variant that's very easy to install, doubles as a Knoppix-style LiveCD, and is quite stable. I enjoy this distro.

Just like Windows

[Cynical Troll]

The reason I switched to Linux was to avoid dialog boxes written for 5 year olds telling me that I needed to click the obviously-marked buttons below to select the obvious choices. Maybe this is a great solution for home users who love to be coddled by their operating system, but is it really going to be popular in the Linux community? It even looks just like Windows, and frankly there are far better user interfaces to copy. The last straw though is calling root access administrator access. I hope to god they haven't changed the root login to "Administrator". That's one thing I really don't miss typing.

Re:Just like Windows

[labradort]

I've used the beta of version 2, and the GUI parts that are included are no joke.

I can set up a samba network printer in Xandros right after install in about 20 seconds. Don't need to read one man page about samba either. I can also set up wireless network NIC with WEP encryption in about 20 seconds. You'd never be able to do the same with any other Linux distribution after a fresh install.

These are things people do now without a lot of options. They also tend to take a full day to get working if you've never dabbled with the likes of CUPS, foomatic, samba and wireless-tools before.

Re:Just like Windows

[JoeBaldwin]

You. Have. Missed. The. POINT!!!!!!!

This distro is not for you. It is also not for hackers, l33t d00dz and power users. It is for little Granny Rose down the street who wants to check her email and browse some recipes/news/pr0n while she has lunch. They're not forcing you to use this distro, and thank christ for that.

Re:Just like Windows

[Cynical Troll]

I understand that, but I am still led to wonder why it is so much like Windows. It is clearly trying to be Windows XP, but on Linux, and that seems like a really bad idea given that a better and more original model would benefit home users more. Windows XP certainly has a fair number of good ui implementations that should be emulated, as do many other operating systems, but it seems counterproductive to try to build a system which is deliberately comparing itself to XP, when it's never going to be the same, and is only going to disappoint a lot of people who expect it to be, and lead to them becoming frustrated with the system when menus are different, widgets aren't in the same place etc.

The point is, people don't mind change, if that change is for the better. We don't need a Linux-based OS that tries to be Windows; we need a Linux-based OS which the average home user can use with similar ease to Windows. Remember that article a while back about a company implementing Linux who had chosen to go with Gnome instead of KDE, for the express reason that it was less like Windows, and therefore less likely to confuse people by creating an expectation that it would be the same as Windows, and then not living up to that expectation?

Xandros

[Anonymous Coward]

Xandros 2 is really the most polished distribution I've tried sof ar and I've tried many. Gentoo, Lindows, lycoris, SUSE, Mandrake, Redhat, Knoppix, Mepis, Libranet and even Yoper.

Xandros apart from being extremely up to date and polished also provides several useful commercial tools such as NTFS partitionr esizing, Crossover office, crossover plugin, realplayer, java, flash and many more.

Re:Xandros

[gardyloo]

Does it perform NTFS resizing? I just checked their webpage, and the "Desktop Standard" version says specifically that NTFS partitions cannot be resized _during_installation_. Perhaps this means that AFTER you've got it installed, you can use the tools to resize those nasty NTFS bits? Doesn't make much sense to me, frankly.

Besides, once something like true NTFS resizing shows up in one distribution, you can bet that it'll soon make appearances in some other major distros.

Re:Xandros

[Trejkaz]

Yeah, there's certainly something fishy about any NTFS support on an operating system whose NTFS drivers explicitly warn in big letters, "DO NOT TURN ON READ/WRITE SUPPORT."

Of course if they decided to provide an open source, stable driver for writing NTFS as well as reading and resizing, then good for them.

Re:Xandros

[blixel]

Gentoo, Lindows, lycoris, SUSE, Mandrake, Redhat

5 of these kids are doing the same thing, 1 of these kids is all on his own. Which one of these kids is doing his own thing, now it's time to play our game.

Re:Xandros

[Anonymous Coward]

It uses a licensed version of PQDisk, the engine behind partition magic. It costs money, so NTFS resizing is only available on the deluxe version.

I liked this better...

[andih8u]

...back when it was Corel Linux and free. I used 1.0 and didn't see that they'd bothered to change anything aside from updating some of the packages. Version 2 doesn't look like they've made any more major changes. I may as well just install my old ass copy of Corel Linux and run apt-get update on it.

Re:I liked this better...

[JoshNet]

On the contrary, Xandros 2.0 is using KDE3 now... which is a big improvement. Newer version of crossover office, mozilla, XFree86, then the Xandros app integration into it with Xandros File Manager. Xandros Networks has been greatly improved so it works better, is faster, etc.

Duh... it's Debian

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you dense? They are just using debian which is available at the obvious places. The software they make themselves can be proprietary and they don't have to give you sqat.

Besides, you just have to ask them for it which you can do via EMAIL.

I'm not 100% but I also think they are only required to provide source WITH THE SOFTWARE (upon written request). Not that they must hand it out to any slackjaw.

Re:Duh... it's Debian

[stoolpigeon]

Am I dense?

Probably.

But with the responses I've gotten, my misconception about the GPL has been cleared up and I'm just a tad less dense than I was before. While to misquote a great man - you are still a complete ass.

Re:Duh... it's Debian

[Anonymous Coward]

> Are you dense?
You are a sad, sad, little man!

> They are just using debian which is available at the obvious places.
So you are alleging that they have made no modifications whatsoever to the Debian packages?

> The software they make themselves can be proprietary and they don't have to give you sqat.
Well that depends on whether any GPL code is used or linked to.

You seem to know a whole lot about what code is or isn't used or modified in Xandros. Where exactly are you getting your infomation from?

Re:A Distro of Debian....

[Anonymous Coward]

Because some of the components are proprietary and closed source?

Nah, not really. It's more that Debian developers fall into the egotistical "not invented here" syndrome. They say it would be "too much work" to put someone else code into Debian. Apparently they'd rather reinvent the wheel...which is why any given release of Debian is always at a minimum a year behind the rest of the world.

Here -

[Burz]

Xandros source link

Re:Here -

[stoolpigeon]

Well - I never expected my question to get modded up. For what it is worth- if I could give you the points I would. Along with those who explained the situation.

Thanks for the link. Obviously I did not look hard enough.

Re:Here -

[armyofone]

Hmmm... Followed your link and everything I see in there is dated over a year ago and labeled Xandros 1.0.

Maybe they just haven't updated their ftp archives yet?

What do you want to support?

[RatBastard]

If your mother is anything like mine, you will be her tech support. What would you rather support? If I were going to saddle my mother with a Linux distrobution I would go for the one that I'm using (unless it's something hidiously newby-unfreidnly). At least I only have to worry about the design choices made by one team.

Re:What do you want to support?

[gnu-generation-one]

"If your mother is anything like mine, you will be her tech support. What would you rather support?"

"I just looked at this website, and now my computer's not working! What should I do?"

"There are all these boxes popping up with rude messages. What should I do?"

"I deleted some files, and it says "kernel32.dll not found". What should I do?"

Yeah, I can see why you'd want to stick to Windows for people you're giving technical support to...

Re:What do you want to support?

[RatBastard]

Did you even read my post? Take your axe and grind it against someone who gives a damn.

Re:What do you want to support?

[blixel]

Yeah, I can see why you'd want to stick to Windows for people you're giving technical support to...

Dude - what the flip are you talking about? The guy said "If I were going to saddle my mother with a Linux distrobution I would go for the one that I'm using"

Don't go by looks

[Anonymous Coward]

This product is not super loaded with eyecandy by default, but everything works very well together and it has many things you won't find in other distributions, like XFM.

versions?

[Jacek Poplawski]

Old kernel (with serious bug), old Mozilla, last stable XFree86 (still better than in Debian, they use 4.2.1).

Where can I see detailed list of packages in that distro?

Re:versions?

[KRzBZ]

Bug patch is out via Xandros Networks, and Mozilla 1.4 was used temporarily while the people there fixed a bug. When it is ready it will be on XN as well. Have a nice day!

Re:versions?

[DShard]

A good resource would be here

Re:versions?

[DaveJay]

A revised kernel with a fix for that serious bug is already available; you can download and install it from their apt-get front end the moment you finish installing the OS. :)

Re:even their screenshots suck...

[Anonymous Coward]

Where are you people seeing this? There's only 1 screenshot on that page, and it doesn't have anything resembling an IE icon...

debian-installer

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been trying out all these "easy" debian variants out there but I'm just not satisfied with the bloat. Maybe Knoppix isn't built for speed, but it just seems clunkier than it should be.

I personally would just try debian-installer and get a clean system if only the daily builds were available. The damn breach STILL has gluck out of order. Are they keeping boot images someplace else for the developers right now if they just released Beta-2 yesterday? I would like a copy, damnit.

There's so much installed in this Knoppix install. I'm only afraid that a lot of it is keeping this computer "working" "correctly" and when I get a clean one there will be some not-so-obvious required packages to get the full functionality.

But did they pay their extortion money?

[pla]

Cool CD burning is integrated into the Xandros File manager

All well and good, but have they paid royalties on this patent (5,666,531, owned by Optima)?

It would seem a pity to have the gestapo show up at Xandros' HQ simply for failing to pay off the right people...

Re:But did they pay their extortion money?

[JoshNet]

This is for packet writing... the CD burning stuff in Xandros File manager doesn't use it - so this doesn't apply.

This pretty interface you see...

[Balinares]

... is the native Plastik theme that comes with KDE 3.2. (Tip of the day: for added prettiness, set Nimbus Sans L as your default font. Then watch people gape and go 'ooooh!'). None of Xandros' doing, although their choosing it certainly sounds like a proof of good taste.

> ... the customized OpenOffice which is one of the key perks of Ximian

Oh is it?

Re:This pretty interface you see...

[__aavhli5779]

That's impressive, I was unaware of the KDE port.

Now if only someone could figure out a way to change OOo's widget background from the default drab gray on OS X. Seems it insists on remaining gray unless KDE/Gnome are running, in which case it assumes their color scheme, but only in those two cases.

Pity, because it's my primary office suite on the Mac.

Re:This pretty interface you see...

[cs02rm0]

Tip of the day: for added prettiness, set Nimbus Sans L as your default font. Then watch people gape and go 'ooooh!'

Not a huge amount of difference, but definately a good tip, cheers!

Debians not so bad now...

[samjam]

After earlier rants against debian I finally got it installed on intel AND an HPPA Risc box.

I feel I have to say this publically on slashdot as I ranted badly twice against it in public.

The debian website is still bad with all the cross-linked "informative" links outnumbering the "where to get bits from" mostly-broken links. The links to the prizes the debian website won still work but its hard to find them.

Now I have managed ot make the installer install its hard to see how I was getting it wrong, I think its in the wording of some of the titles, or maybe because I'm not needing PCMCIA this time?

Anyway, kudos to Debian and all those who contributed to the HPPA flavour.

Sam

Re:"Start button" logo tsarkon reports

[Anonymous Coward]

Haha. You are awesome. If you are a woman, I want to have sex with you. If you are a man, I'll buy you a beer. Otherwise, GET THE FUCK OUT YOU TRANNY!

Sure would be nice for the Aunt Madge users

[criquet]

if there was a consistent UI for linux. After all, there are many more Aunt Madge users and that's what linux on the desktop will need to succeed.

Re:A Distro of Debian....

[Anonymous Coward]

He didn't mean literally, dumbass. He meant why can't OSS coders develop similar features?

Begeebuz

[FreeLinux]

A new distro arrives (that's not free for download) and the users of every other distro on the planet show up to bash it. Get over it people. If you don't like Xandros and would rather run Woody or Gentoo then do so. There's no reason to bash Xandros over it.

I too looked at the screen shots and I felt that Xandros has done a great job. The interface is clean, very clean. The menus are straight forward and uncluttered. The configuration utility has basic options up front and an advanced button to access all the less used config options that KDE offers. They made KDE better, addressing most of the issues of a recent OS News article on KDE, without dramatically changing KDE as Red Hat did with Blue Curve (irritating KDE users no end).

Xandros makes adjusting the screen size as simple as sliding a bar, versus manually editing XFree86Config. Sounds like a geat idea to me. They offer drag and drop cd burning versus the command line joys of cdda2wav cdparanoia cdrecord. Sounds great to me.

I see no reason whatsoever to bash Xandros over this release. It doesn't matter that you don't like its Windowsish looks. Do you really intend to stick Mom with a copy of Gentoo? I bet she'd rather the Windowsish look, at least at first. That is unless she's used a Mac and if she has, she ain't gonna think much about Gentoo/Slack/Debian/Mandrake/Xandros or what ever distro YOU think is the cat's pajamas.

Re:Begeebuz

[JoshNet]

I think it's worth mentioning that even though Xandros isn't free right now, a 30-day trial version that will be free will be appearing after the initial rush for Xandros 2.0 orders goes down. That way you can test it out and see if you like it before you buy.

Re:Begeebuz

[marshall_j]

Ermmmm... Who exactly is bashing it?
From my view the posts above you are either praising it or asking legit questions like why can't you download the whole thing (followed by a reasonable answer, but then I have them sorted by score).
Maybe you should post this in reply to someone who is bashing it rather than starting a new comment all out of context?
Have to agree with your other points tho. Xandros is looking pretty swish. I'd like to see a review of some of the laptops that come with it preinstalled.

Re:Begeebuz

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, a new distro arrives (that's not free for download), and the users of every other distro on the planet show up to bash it.

YOU get over it.

And stop repeating that bloody stupid phrase "get over it".

Get over it yourself.

Re:Begeebuz

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, the better-looking kde is mostly due to the plastik theme, which is one download from kde-look.org away for KDE 3.1, and included in KDE 3.2. And the screen slider thingy is called xrandr/krandr, and is also available as an option for KDE 3.1 and included in KDE 3.2.

I agree people shouldn't bash them though. It looks like a very clean, fully-functional, distro.

Can someone explain

[DarkOx]

Why would I want to run Linux if all I use is windows software. Gnu/Linux is more powerful and scaleable OS, especially Slackware. Its a better value especially for the home users, but one thing is not so good at is running windows software. Wine is a great project but winelib is much more valueable then wine itself. I mean ever windows app I have built agains winelib if It would compile at all was infintely more stable then its windows binary running with wine. There are a few good FOSS windows apps out there. The real question is why run M$ Oriface. I know its the standard and all that jaz but OO or Abiword will read word docs quite well, Gunmeric can handle most or all excel sheets. M$ office is a big pice of shit, I use it at work on windows 2000(which is actaully quite nice IMHO) and all it does is loockup and shred my work. I now use Abiword even on winders. I just can't understand why after finally freeing your self from Microshaft people rush into running unsuported configs of there crap software on their nice FOSS operating system. I don't know if Xandros is free but it looks line gnu/Linux + xfree + KDE + wine + scrips and front ends to look like windows. I can't see paying for scripts and front ends. I buy Slackware evertime I upgrade for the fact that its well put together and its worth paying someone to spend time testing configurations and doing nice builds so I can install it and have it work. While I like it alot, I certainly am not paying Pat becasue I want pkgtool so bad it hurts.

Re:Can someone explain

[agentforsythe]

is there a "-1 drunk" modifier?

Re:A Distro of Debian....

[dongkiru]

I've installed their 1.0 before. After working with it for a day, uninstalled it and reinstalled Debian. It's good for a typical desktop user that just want their stuff to run, but if you want the latest development package and such, you're pretty much screwed.

Some suggested adding debian apt sources, but the package dependencies don't mix well, and soon, you'll either end up with a broken system or a hybrid that has none of the goods of Xandros.

Re:A Distro of Debian....

[pyros]

so wait, Debian isn't LSB compliant? What's with the LSB 'task' in tasksel then? (not trolling, just curious)

but will it connect to my camera

[cerebralpc]

It looks like Windows and smells like Windows but it ain't Windows....because

I probably can't plug my new Kodak camera into the USB port and the computer automatically installs the drivers.

Its all just Windows dressing with the driver support.

Re:but will it connect to my camera

[Anonymous Coward]

my camera works fine. plug it in, and it automatically shows up in xandros file manager as a removable media device.

it's an HP Photosmart 620.

yes, i was a beta tester so I know that it works fine.

Re:but will it connect to my camera

[Anonymous Coward]

Assuming the camera is treated as a 'USB storage device', it will work. No, it doesn't automatically install the drivers, because they are already there.

Re:but will it connect to my camera

[Anonymous Coward]

Your 1 camera works. And maybe a few others work as well. But what about cameras that are going to be introduced in the near future? I have to wait for the kernel to get support for that camera (if it ever does - and if not, I'm just screwed), then I have to wait for my distro to update my kernel (or go through the extreme headache of recompiling my kernel - sorry I have better things to do with my life).

I dig Linux, don't get me wrong. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here.

Re:but will it connect to my camera

[Anonymous Coward]

> I probably can't plug my new Kodak camera into the USB port and the computer automatically installs the drivers.

? Why not? If it's set up correctly by the vendor, the drivers, all of 'em that are available, are already installed, and plugging in the camera will load the right driver and launch the distro's selected camera application.

Re:but will it connect to my camera

[Lookatme]

Plug that device in. It WILL work.

It's a Corel system! I know this!

[rolofft]

Corel Linux did the best job of providing a distro that a Windows user could easily jump into. It was intuitive, well organized, and polished. If Xandros has kept on the path Corel started this should be a nice release.

Re:It's a Corel system! I know this!

[labradort]

Many of the people at Xandros were people who had worked at Corel on the previous OS, and were brought in to work on Xandros 2.

So it isn't just the bought code you are getting, but the skill and dedication of the people involved from the previous Corel efforts.

Re:"Start button" logo

[Anonymous Coward]

You idiot thats based on mandelbrot fractals

Re:even their screenshots suck...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.xandros.com/images/screenshots/switch_u ser_ss.png

Re:Does it support

[cerebralpc]

Does it support Kodak Easyshare cameras?

Windows does - it automatically installed the correct driver. I could surf the cameras memory in Explorer.

No.

[sethadam1]

No, you're thinking of Lindows. And it's not nearly as bad as you think - they didn't replace the authors' names. All they did is rebrand some of the apps, like gaim became 'Lindows Messenger' if I recall (incidentally, they contribute to the gaim project financially) and OpenOffice.org and some Koffice pieces became Lindows Office (just like Lycoris did). The authors' names are all there - although they may have added some of their own names, which is really ok if they've changed the code at all.

I'm not defending it, I'm just saying, it's not as bad as people make it out to be.

Have you even looked at it?

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't look like windows at all.

You want to complain about a distro that does try to look like windows, complain about lycoris.

It looks no more like windows than any other KDE based distro.

Seriously, comments like this are just plain stupid.

MOD PARENT UP; FUNNY!!!

[q2a]

I really got a good laugh ot of this (coincidence)?

Re:A Distro of Debian....

[TazQ]

It makes it closer to compliant, but there's still quite a lot of holes before it's fully compliant.

Oh, cmon..

[msimm]

ssh -l root xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
urpmi win32-codecs

Doh! Its Debian. Helping her find her way around the same disto your using would probably be a lot easier. And not to be preachy (I do a lot of bad things, I'm no preacher) but the fact that Mandrake doesn't only make their distibution available for free, but their software and improvements are free too. That really rules.

Re:Oh, cmon..

[asit ler]

You do realize that the OpenSSH package shipped with most competently-compiled distributions has root access (without using su) disabled by default. Or, if it isn't, the dist managers should be taken out and shot 30 times in the eye with a sawed-off shotgun, by a person with very poor eyesight and bad hand-eye coordination.

Shazbot!

[msimm]

Sometimes its nice to post as a Tribes 2 character.

Screenshots?

[blixel]

All I saw was one screesnhot.

"Look here honey. The sign says we have cars. It should say 'We have car.'" -- Steve Martin

Re:Screenshots?

[Anonymous Coward]

All I saw was one screesnhot.

Er, did you click the word "screenshots"? There are at least eight.

Funny, yes, but untrue

[DaveJay]

(Full disclosure: I was part of the beta test, but am not an employee or developer associated with Xandros)

The installer is actually quite comprehensive, but the complexity is optional -- you either do the four click install, or you divert into optional choices should you dare, like partitioning and whatnot.

As far as only supporting industry-leading hardware, I have a small pile of old HP 4150a Omnibooks laying around, and they couldn't boot the Xandros installer due to a BIOS bug (LindowsOS has the same problem, by the way.) Whereas the LindowsOS people took no interest in helping me solve the problem with my PAID copy, the Xandros folks solved the problem in time for this release. My relatively ancient laptops are now supported*.

*except for sound, which no Linux distribution supports without the Open Sound System proprietary drivers.

Re:Funny, yes, but untrue

[fuzzix]

"...except for sound, which no Linux distribution supports without the Open Sound System proprietary drivers."

Tried sndconfig? I've used it with a few rpm based distros and it has automagically set up a wide range of PCI, ISA and onboard cards. Plus you get a nice sound clip of Linus when it works...

Re:Does it support

[yamcha666]

The question you have to ask yourself is: Do other Linux distro's support your camera?

Re:A Distro of Debian....

[nil0lab]

I've got Xandros 1.0 and I use packages from debian sarge and sid all the time. I just make sure I always do an apt-get -s (simulate) before a real apt-get to make sure I'm not replacing something I don't want to replace. But that's a good idea anyway.

Don't click the link in the sig

[parkanoid]

Watch out, goatse in an animated GIF (check the mimetype before modding ME troll like it happened last time).

xandros?

[geserino]

here is the cure for all evil! www.gentoo.org

Unlikely testimonials ...

[Megasphaera Elsdenii]

Just looked at the testimonials, and found them very weird ... To me, most of them look like plain fabrication. Most in similar style, hardly foreign 'accents', hardly any criticism.

Then again, I may well have become cynical ...

What's wrong with Mandrake?

[biendamon]

If there's one thing I would like to see change in the Linux user community, it's the attitude we all sometimes display concerning our favorite distributions. We all have our reasons for using the distributions that we use, and there's no need for us to rip on the choices of others. Mandrake is still a perfectly good "newbie distro," and one of the things I really like about it is that it has also matured way past being just for newbies. I find Mandrake, even with the recent cd-rom debacle, to be a highly usable, very powerful, and really stable OS now, with all the developer tools I like at my fingertips, too. This in no way detracts from Xandros, Red Hat, Slackware, Debian, Gentoo, LindowsOS, SuSE, or any other distro's quality. When I mention an OS I like, I try to do so without dissing an OS that I choose not to use. I don't always succeed, but it would be nice to see others at least put forth similar effort.

Remote assistance?

[terranlune]

Anyone know anything about the remote assistance clone they seem to include? Does that mean they've also got a working Remote Desktop Server?

Re:Remote assistance?

[asit ler]

That's just a frontend for vncserver, and it's been bundled with KDE since version 3.1. I've found that it's hardly the killer app. In fact, I prefer using vncserver because it starts a new, nonexpiring, password-protected X session running as the user I ran vncserver as. And I can set the screen dimensions and color depth in seconds.

Re:Remote assistance?

[Anonymous Coward]

Though you cant set the depth and resolution, you can enable an uninvited connection with one password in the control centre.

LindowsOS is not based on Xandros

[Kevin Carmony]

I just wanted to clear that up.

It's true that about two years ago, we contracted with both Xandros and Caldera to do some early OS work for us. The work (and code) from both of these companies has long since been abandoned and replaced with updated, modern code.

LindowsOS is, however, very much based on Debian. LindowsOS is designed to be an easy-to-install and use Debian, with particular detail to hardware support, CNR (click-n-run for installing software), laptop and power management support, 10 minute installation, audio tutorials, plug-n-play support, etc.

Kevin Carmony
President, Lindows.com, Inc.

Re:LindowsOS is not based on Xandros

[Anonymous Coward]

You'd really be set, Kev, had you picked a name like "Xandros" instead of "Lindows" :)

Friendly advice is all... just planting seeds.

Where's the torrent?

[josath]

Anyone got a torrent for this baby? I wanna give it a spin on my gf's computer. (hehe, hopefully she wont flip out too much when she finds her windows xp replaced)

Re:Where's the torrent?

[blixel]

hehe, hopefully she wont flip out too much when she finds her windows xp replaced

Hahahahah... hahahah ... hahahaha

Sorry ... I find that very funny. Been there. My wife's computer is running Mandrake 9.2 :) ... I copied all her bookmarks, e-mail, and desktop files over to Mandrake though and she doesn't even notice a difference really. Spider Solitaire is gone, but she was sick of it anyway and really digs Frozen Bubble and several of those other dumb games that come with Gnome/KDE.

Yes. You're wrong.

[jensend]

You only have to give source to the people who you distribute your software to. Since Xandros only distributes their software to paying customers, they only need to distribute the source to paying customers. Of course, said customers can exercize their GPL right to make copies of the source and give that to others.

Re:Does it support

[cerebralpc]

Other Linux distro's don't pretend to be Windows.

Camera might be USB mass storage device.

[jbn-o]

Does it support Kodak Easyshare cameras?

The Kodak Easyshare cameras I've seen are USB mass storage devices--you don't really need Kodak's proprietary software in order to get a copy of the pictures from the camera on to your computer. This is probably why you could "surf the cameras [sic] memory in Explorer" and why you will probably be able to do the same thing in any other OS that supports USB mass storage devices. On top of that, gPhoto supports many cameras including the Kodak Easyshare DX4900 and the gPhoto front-ends work flawlessly with the DX4900. I'm guessing it probably supports your Kodak camera too. gPhoto is Free Software.

Re:Camera might be USB mass storage device.

[jmertic]

It's slightly more complicated than that...

The Easyshare cameras ( I know this cuz I have a CX4230 ) use PTP (Picture Transfer Protocol) which is a standard supported by Kodak, Sony, Canon and others to offer standard way for talking to the cameras. This makes it trivial to support new cameras when the come out since you don't have to go thru the trouble of building a driver from scratch.

There's a sourceforge page with more details

But the short of the answer is that it should work fine. Check out the compatiblity list to be sure, but gphoto also offers a generic driver which should work as a generic driver.

No SMP? What?

[fuerstma]

Taken from their homepage...

"Multiple Processors
Version 1.1 of the Xandros Desktop will not install on systems with multiple processors or Intel Pentium 4 systems with Hyperthreading enabled."

Umm.. that's a bad idea!

Why the ignorant nay-sayers?

[labradort]

First of all, I like gentoo. It suits me fine. However I'm a techie.

For the rest of the world, computers need to be simple to use. GUIs and friendly interfaces are a help.

Gentoo has a valid role to play. So does Xandros.

To counter some of the criticisms placed on this site:

It is called Xandros Desktop, not Xandros Server, so no, your SMP machine isn't in the target market. Get over it and find a better suited distro. Even if it did support SMP and P4 hyperthreading, you would have moved on to something else.

If a desktop oriented Linux distro comes along and makes life easy, it doesn't mean it is as stupid as Microsoft software. That is like saying all orange colored objects taste like oranges.

Don't knock something you have not tried. I know it is hard for you cynical bastards to hold back, but consider the possibility that you don't have a clue what you are saying!

If you want the number of Linux users in the world to grow, then you should not blindly attack any desktop oriented distro. Or perhaps deep down you want to keep Linux for the elite users.

The Debian under the hood aspect is nice for those of us who know about this, but it isn't required for the Xandros user to master. Updates are available through Xandros Network, which ensures you won't need to learn apt-get or dselect. However if one needs packages outside of the few Xandros provides, Debian's set is available. I've heard that if the right preferences are set in the apt-sources there will be no danger of upsetting the customized stuff from Xandros (which includes KDE).

So who is their market?

[bogie]

Personally I think if your going to be buying a proprietry OS that runs on your current machine why not just stick with Windows XP? Besides ease of use relative to other Truly Free Linux distros the main feature all of these proprietary OS's proclaim is that you can run your Windows apps. Why not stick to the OS that runs all of your apps with zero fuss? Where is the benefit? It's not like XP with proper updates can't be stable and secure.

The main advantage of Linux besides a few technical advantages is that is Free and Open Source. Running these proprietary Linux's you don't get the Free or Open Source part. They just seem to go against the entire purpose of leaving Windows in the first place.

IMO fleeing Windows for Xandros, Lindows, Suse et al just doesn't make much sense. I guess to each his own, and judging by some of the people here they obviously want this proprietary experience. I'm no MS fan especially when it comes to the negative impact they've had on the software industry, but from where I stand I just don't see the positive in jumping from from closed proprietary OS to another.

Re:So who is their market?

[Haeleth]

Running these proprietary Linux's you don't get the Free or Open Source part . . . I just don't see the positive in jumping from from closed proprietary OS to another.

Lindows, Xandros, SuSE, etc. aren't closed proprietary OSes. They're free-as-in-speech open OSes with a handful of proprietary extensions. They use a totally free and open kernel, on which they run a totally free and open windowing system hosting a totally free and open desktop environment. The source code to all these things is available. And on top of that they put a handful of proprietary things... like installers, and package manager front ends, and compatibility layers for proprietary software.

Do you really not see any difference between that and a "black box" like Windows?

X2 *does* do both SMP and Hyperthreading.

[KRzBZ]

The parent poster was referring to X1 and 1.1. I'm not surprised that he didn't notice the version number difference, as it seems RTFA is a common mantra here on /. because of the lack of thinking prior to posting. X2 is much newer than both of those, and has these features. Also, keep your eyes out for Business and Server versions of Xandros early next year, from what I have heard and read.

Oops - meant as a reply to post above parent.

[KRzBZ]

Sorry about that labradort, my post above was meant as a complement to yours. Doh!

Xandros 1.0

[metamatic]

Actually, I found that you were pretty much screwed even if all you wanted was a more recent Mozilla. For some reason they decided to install WINE and Mozilla in weird locations, and upgrading to a newer Mozilla broke all the plugins which were supposedly one of the benefits of Xandros. I hunted around, but couldn't find and re-enable them.

With WINE, none of the info on the web corresponded to anything in Xandros, and I couldn't work out how to use it. And again, trying to upgrade to the latest version hosed what was there because it was such a non-standard undocumented config.

So, I wiped it and gave my mother Mandrake instead.

What Xandros Has...

[Eamon C]

What Xandros has that other Linux distros lack is my favorite feature in OSX 10.3 and WinXP -- fast user switching. Am I the only Linux user who lives in a house with more people than computers? Sure, it's possible to start X as a different user on a different display, but it's not the kind of thing you can expect a non-zealot to be comfortable with.

I've been trying to figure out the best way to introduce polished fast user switching into Linux, and the best way I can think to do it is at the display manager level.

Re:What Xandros Has...

[inc_x]

> Am I the only Linux user who lives in a house
> with more people than computers?

Hey, it's called "Personal Computer" with a reason! :-) :-) :-)

Re:What Xandros Has...

[ratpack91]

hey, it's called a multi-user operating system :-/

Re:What Xandros Has...

[James_Duncan8181]

Actually KDE 3.2 beta has a small tab with start new session on it that does exactly this...looks like great minds think alike eh?

Re:A Distro of Debian....

[cerberusss]

some of the components are proprietary and closed source

For me the most interesting component would be Crossover Office.

I wonder whether some distro (Fedora, Debian, Mandrake, etc) guys couldn't concentrate on getting Wine to run MS Office (or even only Word) flawlessly and then pass it along with the distro, with a big INSTALL OFFICE icon on the desktop.

I bought Crossover Office myself, because Wine just isn't stable enough for business use for me. But when I thought about it, I suspect the Wine guys of not concentrating on running MS Office on purpose. If it would, they'd lose their funding from Codeweavers.

Note that I don't have a problem with this, it just makes me wonder if there's some kind of Gentleman's Agreement.

Mod me down

[phoxix]

No joke

Clearly I was wrong about this, and I for one don't wish to slander someone's name for no reason.

Sunny Dubey

Re: "and gave my mother mandrake instead"

[Anonymous Coward]

heh! I gave my mom a copy of mdk 9.2 but she didn't like it (she said it was too "slow"), so i put fedora on there and she likes it.

Linux: Geek tested, Mom approved.

Very nice, one gripe

[Tom]

Another very sleek distro, based on solid technology and polished to look great for the average user as well.
Plus it seems to pack everything you need to get going. Good work!

One gripe, though. Why, oh why do you keep copying the MS "start button/bar" look and functionality? Please get someone who knows about UI design on board and kill it. It is the worst-ever design in that category.

Look at NeXT, or MacOS - those are people who knew what they were doing.

Please copy the best, not the worst. You've done it everywhere else, why not in the UI?

Why hide the GPLed solution that runs their shop?

[Jan0815]

As a fromer team member of osCommerce I am always happy to see osCommerce (www.oscommerce.com) in action - also here:

http://shop.xandros.com/default.php

But why has Xandros chosen to remove the powered by line? Don't they want to express at least a bit of supportt for a Free Software solution?

Disappointed,

Jan Wildeboer

Whoa

[sunbeam60]

It's not like XP with proper updates can't be stable and secure.

GASP! You realize what site you are posting this on, yeah?

Re:even their screenshots suck...

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want this (in geek circles there's a certain cool-factor involved with having a working copy of ie installed on your linux), just go to codeweavers' website and buy crossover office.

License

[wathead]

What exactly is in this distro that is not covered by the GPL? I read the aggreament and it made mention of propriatary software that cant be copied except for archival purposes.
Is this Like the yast thing in SuSe? I have a copy of SuSe I only used it for a while before switching to Slackware. No where when I installed it did it pop up with any kind of aggreament except that yast is not to be modified.

Re:License

[mothbitten]

The file manager is proprietary, if I remember right.

innovation

[kalayl]

This might sound a lot like a rant, and might be one, but why is it that we're seeing yet another desktop employing the same old tired taskbar metaphor and the same old tired windowing system.

Surely the open source community have the brawn to pull together a talented crew of innovators that can push the envelope in terms of desktop systems, and come up with something that breaks the mold, is not an entirely academic excersize, and has commercial/desktop applicability and (most importantly) usability.

IMHO, Project Looking Glass is a great step forward in this regard, but what'll happen to it if/when the Sun finally sets once and for all one day?

It's a very good OS

[Anonymous Coward]

Well I was one of the beta testers and I have to tell you all that Xandros Desktop 2.0 is the best. I love it!

To all those negative comments above, most of you don't even know what your talking about, try to get your facts right first please.

Although I have not yet used the final product, because I am waiting for it to be shiped to me, I can tell you from RC2 it's amazing. Even the first beta was amazing.

The look and feel makes both Windows, Mac, & Linux users feel right at home, Xandros has found the happy mediam in this aspect.

The OS it's self is fast, stable, and up-to-date. Hardware support has been exelent for me, I could not find anything that did not work.

Xandros Networks is the all-in-one package management program you have been waiting for, it does everything from installing RPM's and DEBS from the Internet, to downloading extra software from the Xandros servers or Debian servers. There is no limit to what is possible to install. If somehthing is available for Linux in one form or an other it will install and work on Xanmdros Desktop 2.0.

Xandros File Manager is just like Explorer in Windows XP, so its just what you need to manage any type of file.

Multimedia support is above par, the only thing that does not work out of the box is holliwood DVD's, but all you need is to install a file from Xandros Networks to get this working, it's easy and very quick.

Don't know what else I can sey, just try it, I think everyone is going to love it. it's much better then any other Linux I have ever used! (Mandrake, Lycoris, LindowsOS, Ark Linux)

Re:Why hide the GPLed solution that runs their sho

[KRzBZ]

Jan - I'll pass this on to their website design person. After that, it's up to them. :) Thanks for helping FS.

Download for the same price as the boxed set?

[lingenfr]

WTF -over-. If you follow the download link,
you will see that they are charging the same price for a
downloaded ISO as the boxed set. Great idea...

Advantages of Xandros

[LINM]

I think you will find on testing Xandros, that it has several advantages over the other distributions that for the right customers make it an equivalent (and much less expensive) alternative to Windows XP Pro.

-Easy to use interfaces: familiar Control Panel and "Windows Explorer", plug and play, automatic hardware recognition - plug in a device an it runs, etc. The result of this is that it there is little to no training curve for users familiar with Windows.

-The best installer: hands down.

-Compatibility: popular applications like Microsoft Office 2003, MS Office 2000, MS Office 97, Quicken, etc. run right on Xandros without the need for a Windows license.

-Networking: seemlessly connects on to Windows networks with Native Mode (active directory) support.

Etc etc. If you are in the market for a Windows alternative or Linux Distro or just want to test drive the best desktop distro available, you NEED to try a copy. You can probably tax deduct it. Just go test drive it...

Re:Why hide the GPLed solution that runs their sho

[Jan0815]

Thanks! At least they do not pretend it is their own solution, something I often see.

May the Source be with us all ;-)

Jan - I passed msg on

[KRzBZ]

to Matty, their web guy. He said " I'm looking into getting it back - it was gone for quite a while, just not sure why it was removed in the first place."

Re:Mod up for the anonymous coward! I don't agree!

[Anonymous Coward]

I am a bonified geek. I think being a linux user with a degree in programming gives me this status. I have used Xandros 1.1 for a month now and I will be getting V2.0 today. The GUI in Xandros is much more refined than in most distros, but the geek stuff is still in there, easily available. The myth that the linux community seems to perpetuate about GUIs not being important is pure BS. I want to shatter the status quo and move on...not maintain it with stone age interfaces and clumsy console apps (oh yeah, I do know the console and find it to be useful, but it is not the whole system.)I find it funny that Mac users are typified as computer illiterates because they have a great GUI. Geeks need cool stuff too and Xandros lives up to it's hype.

Re:Does it support

[teprrr]

Well, gphoto2 doesn't seems to support it so it simply depends on if it's usb mass storage or not.

If it's, then it'll work in Linux, otherwise I wouldn't be so sure about it...

GUI

[Lookatme]

Reading these posts I have realized that a large chunk of the Linux community is hung up on ego. They perpetuate the myth that GUIs are for sissies. For the love of god, people, we are computer geeks not bodybuilders and racecar drivers. We don't need this ego. With the "my distro can whup your distro" attitudes flying around here I am amazed. When you say that a system with a poor GUI is a "Power User" system, and a system with an advanced and useful GUI is for your Granny, then you are not perceiving the true nature of reality. I have been a linux geek for 4 years, and I have a programming degree, so I am a card carrying loser geek to be sure. It is common sense that an attractive and elegant interface is more productive than a deficient one. It is hilarious that Mac users are generalized as computer illiterate because they use a system with a very tightly designed and attractive interface. The Mac GUI is top dog in the interface department, it is also the most useful. Xandros is a "power user" system. It automates many of the inconsequential details that other systems wallow in so that you can get down to work quick, but the geek tools are all there and easy to access and use. I used Xandros for 2 months and it rocks. Simple is where it is at and where it is going in the computer industry. Why not advance instead of holding back technology. Linux is about shattering the status quo, not maintaining it. If you still think GUIs are for sissies then check out Plan 9 (www.cs.bell-labs.com/plan9dist/) it's Bell Lab's next gen system. These are the guys that invented Unix. Otherwise, just fire up RatPoison and go back to your cave.

Re:GUI

[Lookatme]

Good point!!! You are absolutely brilliant!! What genius!!!!

Re:Wrong. XFM was developed by Xandros

[Anonymous Coward]

I once read an article that reviewed XFM only. Some googling might help u find it. I remember it was getting a fav review.