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You are making some points that are simply false:

RedHat hasn't dropped their desktop, it's called Fedora now. Look closely at the URL, they are still supporting it.

Moreover AFAIK their entire line of product is open-source, even the branded, server line. They make their money the way the FSF says they should: by providing the support and distribution for pay and the source for free. You are still welcome to grab and compile RHEL for yourself and maintain it yourself using the released source patches.

So far this is 100% in the FOSS model, and yes RedHat is making profits.

I'm not sure how you would do your accounting regarding open-source projects like Darwin. Obviously you are not going to get hard cash for Darwin itself, but there are lots of unpaid programmers who help maintain it, and it makes its way eventually in MacOS/X, which certainly isn't free and that people don't seem to mind paying for.

Regarding OSS on the desktop, your last comment, you need to realize that the world is up against a massive monopoly who shall remain nameless, and who has a track record of not playing fair. So what do you do? Complaining that OSS is not making money right now in this space is silly. I would wager that this big monopoly is not making a lot of money on the desktop O/S either given the price they charge OEMs.

This in itself does not mean the FOSS model of making money is flawed given the playing field is not level, you simply cannot draw that conclusion. On the contrary, the evidence in server space where there is a lot more competition is that it works really quite well.

First, you have to obtain a copy of GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE and watch it.

Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA "first post" on slashdot.org, a popular "news for trolls" website

Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on EFNet, and apply for membership.

Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today!

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is EFNet,
and you can connect to irc.secsup.org or irc.isprime.com as one of the EFNet servers.

If you do not have an IRC client handy, you are free to use the GNAA Java IRC client by clicking here.

About Lunix

Lunix is an operating system. An operating system is the basic set of programs and utilities that make your computer run.

First, you have to obtain a copy of GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE and watch it.

Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA "first post" on slashdot.org, a popular "news for trolls" website

Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on EFNet, and apply for membership.
Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today!

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is EFNet, and you can connect to irc.secsup.org or irc.isprime.com as one of the EFNet servers.
If you do not have an IRC client handy, you are free to use the GNAA Java IRC client by clicking here.

About Lunix
Lunix is an operating system. An operating system is the basic set of programs and utilities that make your computer run. Some other common operating systems are Un

First, you have to obtain a copy of GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE and watch it.

Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA "first post" on slashdot.org, a popular "news for trolls" website

Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on EFNet, and apply for membership.
Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today!

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is EFNet, and you can connect to irc.secsup.org or irc.isprime.com as one of the EFNet servers.
If you do not have an IRC client handy, you are free to use the GNAA Java IRC client by clicking here.

About Lunix
Lunix is an operating system. An operating system is the basic set of programs and utilities that make your computer run. Some other common operating systems are Un

First, you have to obtain a copy of GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE and watch it.

Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA "first post" on slashdot.org, a popular "news for trolls" website

Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on EFNet, and apply for membership.

Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today!

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is EFNet,
and you can connect to irc.secsup.org or irc.isprime.com as one of the EFNet servers.

If you do not have an IRC client handy, you are free to use the GNAA Java IRC client by clicking here.

About Lunix

Lunix is an operating system. An operating system is the basic set of programs and utilities that make your computer run.

In all the Microsoft bashing, we might want to realize that this could be a bad thing. Especially if it's more broadly applied. It could be applied against ANY "for review" software provided for free. For example, any of us who attends trade shows will get review software. If this is applied here, we could be forbidden from taking this software. Or downloading "for review" software from "Oracle Technical Network", Sun, Java (remember it's offered on CD by subscription for $), or even Open Source Software that's offered Commercially like RedHat Linux. For us developers, it could make it very hard for us to evaluate new software. At least without having to spend large amounts of money (often our own) to purchase the software.

But Linux runs just fine on PowerPC?

It's US$99 for Professional Workstation, which is based on RHEL WS.

Fedora Core 2 release : 3 May 3, 2004
Windows Longhorn release : 2004^H5^H6^H...er, we'll get back to you. Meantime, try Windows XP-ME!

The question is, when they get around to releasing it, will we be blown away by its features and ease of use, or just the upgrade price?

The corporate world doesn't seem to have much of a problem with the logo as far as I can tell. HP and IBM were eagerly plastering it over all of their products at the last show I went to. Also, not all Linux companies companies insist on using the Linux pengiun in their logos, take RedHat or Progeny for example.

Btw, is it just me, or does the RedHat guy look like a pretty shady character? I don't think I'd be too inclined to let someone like that manage my servers :p

Consider PowerNotebooks.com. I'm using one right now (a PowerPro) and it works well running Fedora Core GNU/Linux. You can get PowerNotebooks to install some GNU/Linux distribution for you or you can get it without an OS and avoid paying the Microsoft tax. I don't work for them or make anything for referrals.

There is a patched kernel at least for RedHat:

https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2004-065.html

Note in the third paragraph:

"Paul Starzetz discovered a flaw in return value checking in mremap() in the Linux kernel versions 2.4.24 and previous that may allow a local attacker to gain root privileges. No exploit is currently available; however this issue is exploitable. The Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures project (cve.mitre.org) has assigned the name CAN-2004-0077 to this issue."

This is the same CVE as the article. The patch was issued 2004-02-18.

This issue was patched in Fedora on 19 Feb with 2.4.22-1.2174. See the Fedora announce list here:

http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-lis t/2004-February/thread.html

There is a patched kernel at least for RedHat:

https://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2004-065.html

Note in the third paragraph:

"Paul Starzetz discovered a flaw in return value checking in mremap() in the Linux kernel versions 2.4.24 and previous that may allow a local attacker to gain root privileges. No exploit is currently available; however this issue is exploitable. The Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures project (cve.mitre.org) has assigned the name CAN-2004-0077 to this issue."

This is the same CVE as the article. The patch was issued 2004-02-18.

This issue was patched in Fedora on 19 Feb with 2.4.22-1.2174. See the Fedora announce list here:

http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-lis t/2004-February/thread.html

I believe the study that found that once the bug leaves the development shop to go to consumers it costs $9000 per line to fix.

That figure depends largely upon how many customers you have and how sophisticated your patch-distribution system is. In pre-internet days, a critical problem might have meant shipping a floppy disk to each of your customers (of course, this reduced the chance of problems being classified as "critical"). Now, most security problems in FreeBSD can be fixed in two minutes using 50kB of bandwidth and binary patches. Most operating systems fall somewhere in the middle, distributing entire files, or even complete packages, every time a one-line security fix is necessary, with the effect of requiring a 50-fold (or more, in the case of packages) increase in bandwidth (and, over slow connections, time).

Someone from Microsoft explained this to me as "we've got huge amounts of bandwidth, so we really don't need to save bandwidth by using patches"... it doesn't surprise me that Microsoft ignores the fact that delta compression would benefit their customers, but I expected better from Apple or the Linux community.

First, you have to obtain a copy of GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE and watch it.

Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA "first post" on slashdot.org, a popular "news for trolls" website

Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on EFNet, and apply for membership.
Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today!

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is EFNet, and you can connect to irc.secsup.org or irc.isprime.com as one of the EFNet servers.
If you do not have an IRC client handy, you are free to use the GNAA Java IRC client by clicking here.

About Lunix
Lunix is an operating system. An operating system is the basic set of programs and utilities that make your computer run. Some other common operating systems are Unix (and its variants BSD, AIX, Solaris, HPUX, and o

After a bit more research , it seems that the latest Fedora Core 2 test kernels have problems with the ATI drivers. I guess the trick is to compile a vanilla kernel.

Bull shit. Every update is release for free as an SRPM. Just download it, compile it, and install it. The downloading and compiling could EASILY be scripted to create a yum or apt repo.

Maybe on the web server they are running Solaris, but according to Red Hat, they have been running RH "in the enterprise" since 1999.

Maybe they figured it out after they read the RedHat press releases and then when AutoZone stopped sending them checks for OpenServer licenses?

AutoZone Chooses Red Hat Services to Support Linux-Based Chain-Wide Intranet Applications

and read this

I was a Sr. Technical Advisor at AutoZone, where I was an employee for over 10 years. During my tenure, I participated and led in the design, development and maintenance of many of AutoZone's store systems. More importantly, I initiated AutoZone's transition to Linux and I directed the port of their existing store software base to Linux. I personally ported all of AutoZone's internal software libraries for use under Linux. I personally developed the rules by which other AutoZone developers should make changes to their code to support both Linux and SCO's OpenServer product. ...

I must add that SCO was eventually made aware of AutoZone's transition to Linux. They responded by offering to assist AutoZone in the porting activity. By the time of their offer, AutoZone had already completed the initial porting activity and had already installed a Linux-based version of their store system in several stores.

I am just a little curious about your statement:

I used to work for Autozone, and I can tell you that they used to run UNIX for all of their parts lookup terminals, and they switched to LINUX. And I can almost guarantee you that code that they wrote in-house (under UNIX, that probably used some of SCO's code) was copied over to the LINUX operating system.

Because you follow up with this:

And I'm torn, because I hate SCO for this lawsuit stuff, but being a former (and still disgruntled, after 5 years) employee of AutoZone, I'm not sure who I want to lose.

Now, if you ceased to be an employee of AutoZone 5 years ago, and the Linux migration didnt START until only 4 years ago (Accroding to Red Hat) How exactly can you almost guarantee anything?

Just a sticking point, I know, but we have already seen commnentary from the guy who STARTED the Migration at AutoZone and from the guy who came in as he was leaving and helped complete the Migration at Autozone (admittedly it was posted anonymously) and neither account confirms what you are saying here...

so I am left to infer that you are A: as you said, a disgruntled ex-employee who just cant let it go, or B: someone with legit information but no proof other than "I said vs He Said", or C: someone with a story that has as many holes in it as SCOs entire fullisade of lawsuits.

Anyways, now that the Caldera SCOunks have attacked completely uninvolved parties the finishing off of that rabid animal can't be far away.

mod parent down a simple googling of "linux autozone" turns up several links including this . I'm sure a simple search would turn up many more companies that use linux

If their web site doesn't run Linux, I wonder how SCO determined that Autozone is a Linux user

That is very easy. It is not about their internet site, but rather their intranet. Check this redhat announcement.

(i got this link from www.groklaw.net)

The only possibility that makes sense in my opinion is that EV1servers dealings with Microsoft included the SCO-deal as well. Microsoft has a strong interest to channel money to SCO, they have already done so by buying licenses from them they don't need.

So I think EV1servers has essentially become Microsoft's cash pipeline to SCO.

There just is no other way that makes sense. Please don't forget that RedHat protects their customers (like EV1servers) from SCO, so even if EV1servers pretends to think that SCO has a chance and even if they pretend to think that they have to pay before the trial is over, they simply don't need a license.

The problem I've had with RPM-based distributions isn't having to specify two RPM's in a circular dependency. It's that when I want to update one program about 3 months after installation, I have to update the 'glibc' RPM, which then means I have to updated practically every RPM.

Huh? Since when do you have to update lots of RPMs when a glibc fix comes out? I thought most distros backported patches so that you could stick with one version of glibc (much like with the kernel). That's been my experience with RedHat and Mandrake anyway, at least in the past few years.

You know, most distros released a bugfixed glibc back around November, and I don't recall having to upgrade every RPM on my machine just to apply it.

• Apple - Darwin and Safari
• IBM - Linux kernel
• Novell - Netware, NDS, eDirectory
• Trolltech - creators of Qt
• MySQL - major SQL database
• IndexData - networked information retreival
• RedHat
• Sleepycat - dbms
• Google

So if you want to know how to make money, look at the experts.

I filed an RFE in Red Hat's Bugzilla bug database asking them to look up into some of the (IMHO valid) points that ESR raised. Let's hope something actually comes out of it.

I filed an RFE in Red Hat's Bugzilla bug database asking them to look up into some of the (IMHO valid) points that ESR raised. Let's hope something actually comes out of it.

Not true - GNU Classpath is JDK1.4 compatible in many areas, and pretty much complete at JDK1.2 level with the sole exception of CORBA (which has interesting license issues) and Swing, which is being actively worked on (there's a screenshot of Classpath running a Swing demo that's limited to buttons and checkboxes, and it actually works!).

Sure, cloning Swing and many of the other massive libraries in recent JDK versions is a mammoth undertaking and life would be a great deal easier for everyone if Sun would open up the reference implementation. But don't discount the work of the people who are already doing it - they're further along than you think!

(BTW, the reason those URLs point to kaffe.org is just because my own domain for them expired; kaffe.org graciously agreed to host the files, but the results are independently generated and not biased in favor or against any of kaffe's "competitors". Having said that, Kaffe is another project that's made leaps and bounds recently. There are, in fact, multiple completely Free/Open Source implementations of Java now that can run many high-profile Java apps, including Eclipse and Tomcat)

You mean like:
- Red Hat
- OrangeLinux
- Yellow Dog
- Blue Linux
- Green

Ditto, I guess if you only run it on the most common hardware, it might be easier.
I played around with it also and found it to cause many problems.
If you run Red Hat, check out this webcast 2.6 Linux Kernel in Red Hat Enterprise Linux v.3: A Technology Overview about them backporting features to 2.4.
I run a great deal of IBM servers and I can see their ties with IBM. I hope this webcast will enlighten me to how they make sure that Red Hat gets the most of the IBM servers, since we have a company decision to run Red Hat.

Yea, but you can always choose a different distribution.

I haven't even delved to deeply into what SELinux is or what it does, but it is definitely included by default in the upcoming release of Redhat Fedora.

Here's a few more interesting SELinux links: - yesterday's release
- the FAQ
- sourceforge page
- Gentoo Hardened
- Fedora Project' SELinux

You really should go read the EULA one more time. No, you can't install RedHat Enterprise on multiple machines and just run it. Not if you have a single support contract with RedHat. If you have original media from RedHat, you have 1 years worth of support that you can't opt out of.

If you have a single support contract with RedHat, then all of the systems are considered "Installed Systems" (as defined section I.A). RedHat has the right to come into your locations, and audit all of your "Installed Systems" (I.4). They can then invoice you for all of the extra systems you have installed. If are over your allotment of installed systems by more then 5%, they are allowed to invoice for an additional 20% penalty (later in I.4).

I'm not a lawyer, and that is my interpretation of it. However, if you took the binaries off the install CD and put them on a different CD (excluding a handful, primarily being redhat-logos and 3rd party stuff), you could install that, invoking the GPL license. However, a number of binaries on the CD, they could claim copyright on (XFree86 and Apache binaries for instance, and anything else which has a source license of BSD-like). I'm not sure what the license on the actual binaries are.

I'm not sure if the license inside of the RPM is the license for the binaries, or the original source. I'm assuming that it is only for the source.

The actual ISO image isn't GPL'ed. They own the copyright on that, so you can't just go give away a copy. They also own the copyright on all of the binaries. They might be compelled to allow you to transfer the some of the binaries, but they don't have to let you do it in the specific structured way they did. In fact they can't, as they have 3rd party software that they can't allow you to transfer.

Finally, whoever owns the support agreement, just agree to these terms, and can't get out of the terms for the first year after purchase (I.1.2). Everyone who has a support agreement, must not install the software on any additional machines. They got around the GPL requirements, by not making it a requirement on the binaries, but by making it a requirement for support (and not letting transferring the binaries to you, until you agree to this). According to the license you agreed to, unless RedHat makes a material breach of the license, or you agreed up front to a different set of terms, you are bound to the support contract for the term of 1 year.

So I wouldn't go around telling people they can violate a legal contract they have agreed to. It isn't a very smart thing to do. Unless you have a different agreement, or you have a sound legal analysis that contradicts this, I'm pretty sure you are committing copyright infringement if you have multiple copies installed.

For that matter, I'm not sure it is legal to use the software without support. There is nothing in the license which grants you rights to use it. (There is nothing saying you can't either, but it's not explicity stated that after the support is terminated you still have a license to use any of their copyrighted materials). However, I'm very doubtful that RedHat will be coming after anyone. That doesn't change the techincal points of the legality or not.

If anyone has any analysis that differs from this, I'm all ears. I'd love to be able to buy the first copy, and install it lots, and lots. However, I've carefully read the agreement, and I don't believe I can legally do that. Plus if I don't have the support agreement, I have to build all of my own updates. Really not something I'm looking forward to doing.

Kirby

It can be even cheaper

Red Hat Professional Workstation = $99.95
RHEL 3 - Workstation = $179+
RHEL 3 - Enterprise Server = $299+
RHEL 3 - Advanced Server = $1,499+

The + means you can pay more depending on the support configuration.

HOWEVER, if you aren't interested in RHN and support, buy one and install it on a thousand machines. Fully legal, according to the EULA. Try that with Windows and see what happens...

Charles Hill

Red Hat Professional Workstation = $99.95
RHEL 3 - Workstation = $179+
RHEL 3 - Enterprise Server = $299+
RHEL 3 - Advanced Server = $1,499+

The + means you can pay more depending on the support configuration.

HOWEVER, if you aren't interested in RHN and support, buy one and install it on a thousand machines. Fully legal, according to the EULA. Try that with Windows and see what happens...

Charles Hill

Red Hat Professional Workstation = $99.95
RHEL 3 - Workstation = $179+
RHEL 3 - Enterprise Server = $299+
RHEL 3 - Advanced Server = $1,499+

The + means you can pay more depending on the support configuration.

HOWEVER, if you aren't interested in RHN and support, buy one and install it on a thousand machines. Fully legal, according to the EULA. Try that with Windows and see what happens...

Charles Hill

Red Hat Professional Workstation = $99.95
RHEL 3 - Workstation = $179+
RHEL 3 - Enterprise Server = $299+
RHEL 3 - Advanced Server = $1,499+

The + means you can pay more depending on the support configuration.

HOWEVER, if you aren't interested in RHN and support, buy one and install it on a thousand machines. Fully legal, according to the EULA. Try that with Windows and see what happens...

Charles Hill

Redhat Enterprise Linux pricing Microsoft Windows Server 2003 pricing

Yea, who would do something stupid like subscription operating system updates?

First, you have to obtain a copy of GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE and watch it.

Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA "first post" on slashdot.org, a popular "news for trolls" website

Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on EFNet, and apply for membership.
Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today!

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is EFNet, and you can connect to irc.secsup.org or irc.isprime.com as one of the EFNet servers.
If you do not have an IRC client handy, you are free to use the GNAA Java IRC client by clicking here.

About Lunix
Lunix is an operating system. An operating system is the basic set of programs and utilities that make your computer run. Some other common operating systems are Unix (and its variants BSD, AIX, Solaris, HPUX, and o

Since Wind River's site apparently runs on an embedded platform, you can read about Red Hat and Wind River Partner to Develop Linux Based Solution for Device Software Optimization from Red Hat's site instead.

First, you have to obtain a copy of GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE and watch it.

Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA "first post" on slashdot.org, a popular "news for trolls" website

Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on EFNet, and apply for membership.
Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today!

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is EFNet, and you can connect to irc.secsup.org or irc.isprime.com as one of the EFNet servers.
If you do not have an IRC client handy, you are free to use the GNAA Java IRC client by clicking here.

About Lunix
Lunix is an operating system. An operating system is the basic set of programs and utilities that make your computer run. Some other common operating systems are Unix (and its variants BSD, AIX, Solaris, HPUX, and o

No big deal, here, so far. I'm sure anyone with common sense feels the same way about SCO's ramblings, and as such there's nothing "special" about my statement.

However, I, for one, welcome any invoice(s) SCO might send me (after deobfuscating my email address, of course). Threats of legal action, if they deem it necessary, are fine, not that they'd do that, now, would they?

I expect exactly as much response from me posting this email address here as I managed to get from them when I asked them what the story was with licensing in AU -- in the context of the Australian Trade Practices Act; absolutely none. Even if SCO were technically clued enough to browse Slashdot, they haven't the balls to actually, you know, try their claims on here in Australia. For a start, I'm sure they know how our competition watchdog feels about misrepresentation -- or, indeed, "accidental" misrepresentation...

Come on, SCO, I'd love to be able to fax a copy of any invoice to the ACCC. They'd love to hear from me, too, I'm sure.

Well, FC2 isn't really released yet, its only test versionsout now.
FC2 will be released April 19.

Fedora Core 2 is running the 2.6 kernel. I hear from first impressions that the performance
improvements are nothing short of stunning, but I haven't tried it yet.

SCO lost Autozone to IBM's Linux efforts. They're a huge auto parts distribution chain with about 6,000 stores the last time I looked - I used to work for a much smaller competitor of theirs that went bankrupt in the mid nineties.

I think it's safe to say SCO lost Autozone due to SCO's efforts. I had a phone interview with Autozone for an SA position (not under NDA, as it never reached the "come into the office" stage). The interviewer was almost begging me to take the job, saying they had an on-site person from SCO to fix all the problems they were having on SCO Openserver on the server side of their setup. Apparently they were paying $BIG_BUCKS for the SCO person (iirc, it was typical business-to-business consulting rates at the time) and weren't seeing satisfactory results, so they wanted to try their luck on the open market.

Since SCO had recently announced EOLing Openserver in favor of Unixware, I saw working with Openserver as a bad career move (that, and I had worked with Linux and Solaris at the same time I gained experienced with Openserver and liked both much, much better). I suggested to the interviewer that they consider migrating to a better OS, such as Linux. I wouldn't be surprised if they heard this from quite a few people, as after I saw your comment, it piqued my interest enough to check, and Red Hat announced picking up the contract in late November 1999 - http://www.redhat.com/about/presscenter/1999/press _autozone.html

So, congrats to Autozone for taking my advice. :-)

Maybe Microsoft is waiting for the hardware to catchup so their inefficient code can take advantage of more memory.

Does it really matter anymore what Microsoft is doing?

Where I live, opterons are selling like hotcakes and something must be going onto them.