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You'd better remember how in the US they treated their own ppl (the blacks) *at that same time*.

How? USSR — during those times — has killed over 30 million of its own citizens, either by direct execution or via truly hard labor in harsh conditions. What did Blacks suffer — discrimination? Does not compare — except in the minds of the Russian propagandists, who have — since Brezhnev's days at least — always countered the obvious advantages of America with: "Yea, but they beat up negros!" And now, with your own country being among the most racist — Chernozhopye huzhe zhidov — you defend KGB's murderers by attempting to equate them with America's racists? Pathetic — you don't even have that counter-argument any more.

As for my associating Russia with the USSR — well, today's Russia has a KGB man in charge and, among other things, has restored the monument of the very first executioner. For all anybody should care, they are one and the same.

No, I argue by stating that people have valid motives for hiding things and that your blanket generalization fails.

Do you seriously doubt that Iran has serious economic difficulties, and is proping itself up with oil money? Here's a recent cite; Google finds dozens.

Do you seriously doubt that the demographic shift in Iran threatens the party in power? Most of the links I could find had an axe to grind in American politics, but this one has lots of actual data.

Do you seriously think Iran's government could benefit by starting a war with America by attacking Iraq right now? It's not like we have a tripwire base there, like we did in Korea for so many years: we have most of our armed forces mobilized in Iraq, and regime change in Iran is still official US policy.

I'm sorry to puncture your conspiracy theory so thoroughly, but the idea that the US would be cutting data cables used by a large chunk of the world just to mess with Iran is simply not rational.

I think you should take in a few of the "innocents"

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7010883859
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-06-27-russia-gitmo_N.htm
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=4033420
http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2006/03/fbc50158-46a9-4921-80db-195b1fe720b8.html
http://www.france24.com/en/20080508-suicide-bomber-former-guantanamo-detainee-usa-iraq-mosul-kuwaiti
http://archives.econ.utah.edu/archives/cubanews/2007w46/msg00251.htm

So once you've got Omar Bin Whackjob and a few of his friends settled into your home, why not pick up a few 100lbs of Fertalizer and leave him your credit card so he can rent a truck?

I don't have any links, but I heard it on the radio yesterday. It's something to do with female dogs ovulating randomly, and not being able to stimulate ovulation via hormones.

Just found this article which discusses it: http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/08/a696a224-e655-4dea-acce-12bed08c63be.html

Incidentally the company is partnering with Hwang Woo-suk, who was behind the cloning fiasco in South Korea, making various unsupported claims!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hwang_Woo-Suk

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Apostasy in Islam punishable by either imprisonment or death? I believe the most recent case was in 2006 in the "liberated" Afghanistan. So, is Islam a cult?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2006/03/AD051C73-2777-4497-9F13-1293C2293380.html

"Let's see - China had the sundial, sextant, gunpowder and circumnavigation of the planet under their belt long before the west stopped playing with dolls and you make a claim like that? "

Islam had the astrolab

Islam had sundials.

Islam was circumnavigating the world.

Islam had explosive gunpowder.

Because cutting off people's arms is counter to Western values. Pretty much all Muslim countries (Wahabis or not) practice that one. As are many Sharia laws for treating women.

As for the pro-Kremlin bloggers, A recent report by Radio Free Europe states, "A new generation of pro-Kremlin bloggers, for example, is being cultivated to spread Putin's word online -- and to rapidly disrupt the activities of Russia's opponents, both real and imagined.

When Kasparov's Other Russia held a rally in Moscow on April 14, for example, a group of pro-Kremlin bloggers from the Young Guard youth movement flooded the Internet with reports of a smaller pro-regime demonstration on the same day. In doing so, they crowded out postings about the opposition march on Russia's top web portals -- creating a virtual news blackout in one of the last refuges of free media in the county. Pavel Danilin, the pro-Putin blogger who spearheaded the effort bragged to 'The Washington Post' that his team 'played it beautifully.'"

Is Russia becoming more like the USA, or is the USA becoming more like Russia?

As the Kremlin moves into cyberspace, each KGB clique will want a "piece of the action" and has absorbed some alumni of the RBN. In the 21st century, even the Russian mafia needs an online presence.

They're the good guys!

Eastern European women make up a large percentage of sex trafficking victims everywhere including the US. Its not just the Middle East.

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/08/42b5f 74c-f6c2-475a-b488-20a0662664d1.html

Don't let that get in the way of your prejudices though, you are obviously having a lot of fun with them.

Oh, I get it.. If people own guns it is a bad thing. However, the governments know how to control them and make sure everyone is safe.


I think the people of Uzbekistan, Turky, China , SUDAN, Mexico, Sri Lankan, and Ethiopia would disagree, if they had not been killed in massacres by there governments.

Bla Bla Bla, saying "You've got it all wrong!" doesn't add anything to your argument. What has culture got to do with this argument? Or are you justifying attacks on foreigners as method of preserving Russians culture?

Ad hominem attacks also don't add to your argument, on the contrary they underline that you've lost this argument. Of course life is more complex than my quick post. You're a random person on slashdot talking some BS, I am not going to go into a lengthy analysis with links to relevant sources. As far as I am concerned, you're not worth it.

Losing 20 million people doesn't stop the government from institutionalizing racism and ignoring neo-Nazi organizations. What was it that the chief of the Moscow police said? There are no skinheads in Moscow? This is Russia for you:

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2004/02/01aff c5f-01e8-4cfb-b621-ffcafc9c9343.html

The people who gave their lives fighting Nazi Germany would be really proud of modern Russia.

to pacify a communist nation, is to export capitalism to it. It worked with Russia.

Errr, excuse me?

Inside Russia:
A KGB leader rules he country, were mafias run rampant, foreigners get killed in the streets, petty wars are fought abroad, and regime-critics get killed.

Outside Rusia:
Blocking resolutions against Iran developing the bomb, providing funds to terrorist group (seems like a good way to keep the West troubled and give free ride to Russia as "it does not matter anymore"), the tactics of cutting gas supplies to neighbours and trying to own strategic European infrastructure and industries. And, of course, killing of disidents abroad with radioactive material.

I say Russia is back as the enemy of the West. And this includes the USofA

Peace!

For this reason, I strongly doubt that Putin ordered the assassination of Alexander Litvinenko. He was on Western soil (i.e., Great Britain), and, by the terms of gentleman's agreement, was in the "safe" zone. If he had been in Russia and continued to be a Russian citizen, then Putin would have killed him, regardless of whether he is a permanent resident of Britain.

Someone outside of the official Russian government killed him, but who would want to kill him?

Currently, many reports claim that the Russian government is in chaos. It has numerous renegade factions that actually support criminal elements and that coordinate assassinations. These factions operate outside of the control of the official Russian government lead by Putin. These factions are likely implicated in the murder of Anna Politkovskaya.

In my opinion, one of these factions orchestrated the murder of Litvinenko because he was aggressively investigating the murder of Politkovskaya. Putin would never have killed him; Putin is a veteran of the KGB and clearly understood the gentleman's agreement.

By the way, I despise Putin. This despot is currently broadcasting Russian propaganda via a satellite-delivered broadcast called "Russia Today". When Moscow tried to brutalize the Georgians, "Russia Today" omitted broadcasting the Georgian point of view. "Russia Today" is almost as biased as Al Jazeera.

The European lead negotiations with Iran are failing to produce meaningful results. That is bad enough given the threatening language from the Iranian leadership, and their President's state of mind.

Now it looks like the Sunni vs Shia / Arab vs Persian rivalries, are about to take a much more dangerous form, not to mention the Arab/Muslim conflict with Israel. What is even more disturbing is that the restraints that contained the cold war don't seem to apply. We might end up with a nuclear Jihad.

"Bird flu" is not synonymous H5N1.

H5N1 is a strain of bird flu, not the bird flu itself.

All H5N1 is the bird flu, but not all bird flu is not H5N1, like all Ford Focus's are cars, but not all cars are Ford Focus's.

There are many strains of the bird flu (Hello, the article we are responding to is about another strain of the bird flu!).

The 1918 pandemic WAS caused by a strain of the bird flu. See also NYTimes.

There's an interesting interview at Bulletin of Atomic Scientists about how North Korea "cheated" where the NPT is concerned and that reaffirms what slcdb says. An excerpt:

[I]n the case of North Korea it was a nonnuclear weapons state party to the treaty, it then withdrew in 2003 and declared itself to be a nuclear weapons state, and of course it used its status under the NPT to acquire all the nuclear fuel cycle infrastructure needed to manufacture nuclear weapons. Basically it cheated -- a clear-cut case of noncompliance with the treaty -- and yet when it pulled out of the treaty nothing happened, the international community failed to take robust action against Pyongyang. It's something that gravely undermines the legitimacy of the treaty regime, when states can be seen to flout its rules, exploit the rules, and -- frankly -- cheat and then get away with it.

The end of the article also makes mention of how the seismic reports aren't really matching up to a true nuclear bomb. Either they have highly sophisticated technology, they flubbed up and/or they're bluffing, or the seismic data is incorrect for that regions geology. The last choice could be evidence for why they chose that region to begin with.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/iran/index.do
http://hrw.org/doc/?t=mideast&c=iran
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/defenders/hrd_iran /alert081606_ebadi.htm
http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/02/49f87 7bc-61bb-4b7d-87e0-663033df3404.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4114621.stm

From the BBC article:

The execution of children

Torture, as well as degrading punishments such as amputation, flogging and stoning

Discrimination against women and girls

The persecution of political opponents, following last February's mass disqualification of opposition candidates in the run-up to parliamentary elections

Discrimination against minorities, including Christians, Jews, Sunni Muslims, and in particular followers of the Baha'i faith, including arbitrary arrest and detention.

Can we start being worried yet?
Can we start telling them they can't do this yet?
Or are these still wonderful people who should have A-bombs?

*sits and waits for the moral equivalency arguments*

Muslims have never denounced the actions of Muslim Extremism.

Really? Google seems to have come up with a few examples. But, hey, it's so much easier to paint billions of people with the same brush than it is to attempt to actually comprehend the complexity of the situation, eh?

If you think for a second that that the US government is any less corrupt than that of Russia you have made a horrible mistake.

At least in the modern era US regional officials don't pay skinheads to beat the crap out of people who were here first just for having concerts in their own language, and deny exit visas to people trying to travel abroad.

For a really horrifying view of the treatment of minorities in an ostensibly democratic nation, see Rein Taagepera's The Finno-Ugric Republics and the Russian State (Routledge, 1999). Being a Navajo or Zuni right now is infinitely preferable to being a member of an indigenous population in Russia. So yes, the U.S. is less corrupt in this respect.

In Europe, the Internet will be a place (more like what we in the US have today) where ideas are exchanged freely.

Sheesh, what are you talking about? Are you talking about the same United States that guarantees free speech in the constitution (which is NOT typically guranteed in Europe) and has protected us many times from an overzealous government? And are you talking about the same Europe with France that tried to ban certain Yahoo auctions? And are you talking about the same Europe that put a man in jail for thinking the wrong thoughts?

History favors the stability of the United States. It wasn't THAT long ago that Europe dragged the world into a WW/II.

Mindless anti-Americanism really gets old somtimes.

Or even a spy rock(TM).

I as a student in best university of Iran (http://sharif.ir/en) like Mohammad Khatami because he won't let something like attack to the students happen in his presidential period. It's nice to see what happened to us just a few days ago: http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2006/03/6035b fe4-0e35-4807-ad4b-cdd4fce89821.html for Photos visit http://sharifpic.blogspot.com/ Those idiots who invited people not to vote for presidential election should now realize what they had done to Young generation in Iran. how long can we wait and see they are burning our university and all things that we have? The point is that waiting for revolution or attack!! is not a wise solution for us. Reform may be the best way but with Idiots who vote to new president and more who did'nt vote there is no way for us:(

Similar efforts have been going on for years. During the Cold War, radio was a popular way to undermine totalitarian regimes. Radio Free Europe still exists. Several Christian missionary organizations (e.g. TWR) use the same strategy. The same is done with (satellite) television.
Regimes respond by banning the offending receivers (satellite dishes are banned in Saudi Arabia, radio receivers are limited to government-approved frequencies in North Korea), or by using jammers. I don't recall hearing about official protests from those regimes.

...we thought it was funny when the FSB (former KGB) demanded ISPs install equipment
specifically to allow this kind of monitoring (in 1998)- I guess its not so funny now.

For background, check out
http://www.rferl.org/features/1998/08/f.ru.9808201 25102.asp

or just search on "SORM-2".

Gives pause for thought on the most effective way of going about things doesn't it ? No, actually. In fact, it sounds like the success of the UKs operations roughtly matches that of those in the US. The organizer is yet to be caught in both, the people who killed themselves are of course dead, and those who botched their attacks (Richard Reid here, failed bombers there) are in custody.

The US though (and, actually, Britain as well) are attempting to actually tackle and eliminate the root cause of terrorism--oppression/tyranny in the Middle East. By raising two new democracies smack dab in the middle of Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Yemen, etc, the coalition forces have planted the seed for the freedoms that will relegate terrorists to the fringes of society. The people who previously supported or at least looked up to terrorists will reject them as they gain more of a stake in their own future and their own lives.

This is already happening: http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/07/86ed9 5a7-63b7-41d5-b273-4dec11fa9d2a.html

Since the invasion of Afghanistan, we have see elections in Afghanistan and Iraq, a popular uprising in support of freedom in Lebanon and Ukraine and Kyrzystan, minor national elections in Saudi Arabia (still no women though... it's a start at least), women GAINING the right to vote in Kuwait, Mubarak in Egypt has announced elections, elections in Lebanon, elections in Palestine, and other occurences. In other places, there are positive signs... in the UAE, for example, the academic advisory council (to the government) recommended embracing democracy, lest they fall behind their neighbors.

Good stuff is happening right in front of your eyes... the very thing that feeds terrorism--oppression--is slowly but surely being uprooted before us. It's easy to get caught up in the cause du jour and jump on the bandwagon of anti-war activism. But what is being done there is reshaping the region in a way that will improve the lives of hundreds of millions of people in the region and make us safer in the long run.

Darfur Crisis Causes U.S. To Stumble Over Opposition To International Court" U.S. Stubborn On Sudan

The basic problem is that the US doesn't want to back up the ICC (which the Bush administration opposes). Thankfully the administration is now supporting a security force (they weren't when the majority of the crimes were being committed), and this year is leading the effort to help get peacekeepers there. They're still causing rifts by trying to keep the ICC out of it, though.

"The Russian president accused the United States of trying to 'isolate' Russia by interfering in Moscow's relations with its neighbors -- not only Ukraine, but also the breakaway Republic of Chechnya."

"'As far as the Iraqi elections are concerned -- I have big doubts about whether democratic elections can be guaranteed under the full occupation of foreign troops,' Putin said."

"Still, Putin stressed the continued strong ties between Moscow and Washington, and said he was satisfied with the way bilateral relations are developing."

Mmm, yes, sad. I can feel myself getting a little misty even as I type this.

In other news, mass murderer Osama Bin Laden released a new tape today, confirming he is alive and and kicking and intent upon more mass murdering; x people got blown up in Iraq today, where x is a real number between 10 and 300; The Sudanese are starving; and N. Korea and Iran will probably have a shitload of nukes by the end of the decade.

Goddamn those bastards at Nvidia for needlessly adding to the world's sadness.

$470 million dollar settlement / 15,000 deaths (not including survivors) = $31,333 per victim.

$470 million dollar settlement / 500,000 survivors = $940 per victim.

Read this on Radio Liberty http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2004/9/D3D756 0D-9436-40DF-A6CD-5DA07EBD075C.html
(Russian Colonel Withdraws Request For Pardon)
In short: Russian Colonel Yurii Budanov got drunk, kidnapped young Chechen woman, raped and killed her. Was sentensed for 5 or 7 years, all honours/awards taken away. One year after the sentence he requested for pardon and this request proceeded through all the institutions to president Putin.
There was a very good joke in Russia: "Budanov pardoned Putin by withdrawing the request" (It whould have been outrageous if Putin pardoned colonel, on the other hand, Russians whould not understand if Putin refused pardon).

Russian saying comes to mind: "You wont get it without a pint of vodka"

"Most of the people are feeling optimistic" has a very hollow ring to it when you know how many Afgahn women are committing suicide:

Afghanistan: Self-Immolation Of Women On The Rise In Western Provinces

(...)

Activists say women in many parts of Afghanistan -- including Herat, which is ruled with an iron fist by provincial governor and warlord Ismail Khan -- still face repression and harassment.

Virdee says the continued crackdown on women's rights is contributing to the rise in self-immolation cases.

(...)

Ahmad Bassir is a Herat-based correspondent for Radio Free Afghanistan. He says women see no difference between their lives now and under the Taliban, and that desperation drives them to attempt suicide.

(...)

Bassir adds that the despair is especially strong among women who once lived as refugees in neighboring Iran, where women enjoy far greater rights.

So in summary, for many Afghan women, the situation in Afhanistan today is so bad -- for some it's worse than it was for them in Iran -- with even fewer prospects for improvements in their lives, that they commit suicide by setting fire to themselves.

I'll just repeat your words to give the proper constrast:

Afghanistan today: Most of the people are feeling optimistic about their future after decades of war and oppression.

More:

Death by fire: the agonising way out for trapped Afghan women

Google

We have found WMD. Even the Polish have found WMD including cyclosarin. Nasty stuff! But I guess you want the "Big Lie" to continue.

You want sources for the draining of the southern Iraqi marshes? Googling on 'marsh', 'arab', 'drain and 'iraq' gets me 1130 hits. Number 1 is a Voice of America site and number 2 is an American University site, so I guess they fail your GWB/Rummy filter. Number 3 is an article by Robert Fisk however:

"The first time I saw the Marshes, just east of the Baghdad-Basra highway, the tourist guide was true to its words. For miles, thousands of reed huts stood on earth and papyrus islands, each inhabited by the descendants of the ancient Sumerians, a time warp of simplicity which, according to old Arabic scripts, may have begun with a devastating flood around AD620. The last time I went there, the women from one Marsh Arab village were prostituting themselves to lorry driversto make money for their impoverished families."

Its hosted on a website called Common Dreams which looks to be fairly left-leaning as far as I can see.

Link number 4 which is an article hosted on the South Wales Worker's Education Association website (not a notable hotbed of neo-con thinking) which cites UN studies and includes some comparitive Landsat images:

"This section marshals the latest evidence of a tragedy developing in Iraq since the 1970s. The drainage of the wetlands that have been home to the Ma'dan or Marsh Arabs for 5,000 years."

Link 5 is an article on the US Institute of Peace website, but this is a congressionally funded federal agency so probably fails your GWB filter.

Link 6 is a page on a personal webpage of some bloke called Mike. I don't think he's a sock-puppet for GWB, indeed looking at the site index he seems to be fairly right-on sort of chap (albeit with unfortunate goth-ey tendencies back in the 80s). Here's the first sentence:

"These satellite photos reveal exactly how Saddam Hussein is systematically draining the marshes of southern Iraq, transforming a unique eco-system into a man-made desert and destroying the ancient home of the Ma'dan or Marsh Arabs."

Link 7 is a BBC website for children. Here's the text:

"There are about 250,000 of this Shia Muslim group, also called Madan, living in Iraq. They originally lived in the marshes around the southern end of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

After the first Gulf War, they tried to overthrow Saddam. The Iraqi government stopped them.

Saddam's government decided to drain the marshes, which split up all the Madan. This removed their ability to threaten the old regime."

Link 8 is another personal webpage, this time for a Dutch doctoral student in mathematics. It has photos of a trip he took to Iraq as part of a delegation trying to overturn the sanctions that existed post-GW1, so I think its reasonable to conclude that he doesn't much care for GWB.

Link 9 is a State dept website, so probably fails your GWB-filter.

Link 10 is a Kuwaiti website, so they probably count as GWB's sock-puppets for you.

There you go. Five out of the 10 are probably tainted for you (although I note that only 1 is an overt propaganda site). If that ratio holds good for the rest of the links then you've got 560 more webpages you can read.

Regards Luke

PS Dunno why the l

Anytime anybody posts a link to the washington times I completely dismiss their entire post.

Thats pretty childish, don't you think?

How about these links, then:
http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/2003/12/17122003 153543.asp
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2003/s1012216.htm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280 ,-3517412,00.html
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/200 3/12/18/2003080039
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/ 2001817106_iraqdig17.html

Those all say pretty much the same thing as the Washington Times, or do you dismiss posts that link to the taipeitimes or guardian, too?

If nationality is irrelevant here, then why did the United States government just ban corporations from Germany, France, and Russia from bidding on major reconstruction contracts in Iraq? These are private corporations, not sent by their governments, yet are being punished for just for being from countries that opposed the war. These two incidents, among many others, provide a very telling example of how the U.S. government often choses to ignore its own open market philosophy to gain influence. Don't believe me, then check out the articles here, here, and here. Whether you view this decision as right or wrong is your own opinion, however your statement that nationality shouldn't play a part in government's official opinion on something seems very misguided.

Yeah, that's why they kill about five civilians for every soldier in Iraq.

Tell that to the victims of human trafficing. And, yes, a lot of them end up in porn photo- and videoshoots.

Good guess. I never would have figured that out. Well, except for the part where it says she is from OHIO!

This never happens anywhere else. Except for all those countries that collapse because so much of the population is taken by a single scam! Albania

I was indeed mistaken about your nationality. In any case, here are two articles relating to the issue:

Red Cross "clarifies" definition
analysis by Guardian newspaper

My view is closer to the spirit of the law. Creating a totally new category (by US govt of all things; if anything, it should be by the ICRC) is not standard practice.

----

Clicking on the main page only shows like 30(?) postings...

Sivaram Velauthapillai

VoA is not the only station people can listen to on HF. There is A LOT of English language stations. And in may other languges too. Just now I listen to Radio Liberty in Russian, see www.svoboda.org. It is one of the best stations I can find anywhere. Polish Section of RFE would be quite good too but unfortunatley it was the only section of RFE/RL (www.rferl.org) which completely ceased operation in 1996. In Radio Liberty I have a lot of information about politics and culture in the world and in Russia. Not much about my country but I am interested anyway and Russia is a very important and interesting country for me. Svoboda gives unbiased news e.g. about Chechnia in a style far from black propaganda of Radio Moscow. On the UHF in Warsaw there are practically only music stations. Some stations have few hours of political news sometimes, usually still mixed with music. When I randomly switch Svoboda on I have much over 50% chance to find something interesting. It would a pity to have Liberty jammed again, today by some PLC. I tested one PLC solution recently. It would be difficult or impossible to listen do Radio Liberty in a building where somebody uses such connections. They use Internet for their broadcasts too but it is not practical for many listeners.

I don't know specifically about Estonia, but my relatives live in Riga, and I know what was happening there firsthand. Probably it is better now, but back then, right after the independence, the rules were very tough on "foreigners" - including those who lived in the country forever, and the only difference is that they originate from Russia or Ukraine or from anywhere else. It *was* an attempt at ethnic cleansing.

Fortunately, my aunt was married to a Latvian guy, and spoke the language fluently; other people were not that fortunate. Admittedly, the language wasn't that hard to learn (I could read some street signs in couple of days), but for older people it would be an insurmountable obstacle. What *civilized* countries do in such cases is that they have several official languages. Changing the rules overnight and forcing people to learn the language on someone's else schedule is nothing but a crude attempt at forcing them out.

Gradual elimination of state - and municipally funded education in minority languages is a stated goal for most political parties in Latvia. Nice, isn't it? And this ordeal is not over yet. Most countries today try to become multi-cultural, because variety is good. But Latvia wants to become a monoculture, a thing in itself. Too sad.

With regard to the War, weren't former Nazis parading through Riga? I remember that other Nazi collaborators were elevated to status of War Veterans too; maybe not in Estonia, again, sorry for my lack of distinction between states.

The current tendency of Baltic states of becoming subservient and obedient vassals to Bush does not help either. I hope they actually manage to stay away from the mess. Since you live there, though, you know better about those things...

How many political dissidents are in US prisons? I mean besides the people who are there because they ingested drugs or because they don't have the huge sum of money to pay bail even 'tho it's a good chance they are innocent. I mean actual dissidents - like someone who goes online at a widely read journal and calls the president a parasite.

Russia's only non-government controlled TV network has been dissolved by order of that government. In fact, Putin would like to have the head of the network "putin" jail despite the fact another court (outtside the jurisdiction of the kremlin) found he had commited no actual crime.

The other states are no longer part of the FSU, of course, but in other now "democratic" countries (like Ukraine) criticizng the government in the press may not even get you due process - instead you may be found hanging like a side of rotting beef. Or maybe even beaten to death in the street.

It's getting bad... but it's not nearly as bad here as it could get.

The analogy to Iraqi stolen treasures may be misplaced. While initially there were reports that thousands, or, as Maddog says, "a lot of them were removed from the world," later reports in the NY Times and Wall Street Journal put the number of verified pieces missing at 25 in one piece I read and 33 in another.

It turns out that the museum staff stored hundreds and thousands of pieces in their homes, and more valuable pieces had been stored in bank vaults since the first Gulf War. I don't have the Times/WSJ links, but a quick google search turned up this article and this article confirming those basic findings. The later article does mention larger numbers for "minor" pieces, whatever that means.

(On second thought, maybe the analogy holds: lots of sound and fury about stolen IP, followed by findings that very little was taken...)

--LP

Ok, that's the introduction, here we go:

First, let me state that the alternative to war is not to do nothing. It is to do things more constructively, build rather than destroy.

Let me also state that I'm not in the "it's the oil" crowd. I think Bush honestly believes that he is on a God-given mission as the World Leader to save the world. But I didn't elect this moron, and neither did you. Unelected leaders are dangerous, regardless of who didn't elect them... :-) Especially when they're fanatically religious...

First, a bit of history: US officials visited Saddam in 1984, to restablish diplomatic ties, as Saddam was in a war with Iran, this was a great opportunity, and these officials saw no reason why they shouldn't establish diplomatic relations. Well, of course they knew that Saddam had been a despot since he seized power in 1979, and they knew full well that he had used chemical weapons against his own population as well as in the war against Iran.

But, what the heck, this war against Iran, that had to be supported, regardless of some puny WMDs. The delegation leader's name was Donald Rumsfeld. Yep, these guys are old pals. Cool, eh?

Where were you when Amnesty reported that Saddam Hussein tortured and murdered unknown tens of thousands of Iraqis when your current defence-head shook hands with him?

The problem with Saddam had been much easier to solve if the US had put some pressure on Saddam in 1984, rather than supporting the dictator. The US gave him the position he now has. And guess what, dictators sometimes have their own agenda. Who would have thought?

OK, so you can argue that old mistakes are no reason to stand down now.

True. But you have to realize that you have to do things differently than you did before.

Well, what happened in Kosovo, that's an example of the success of intervention? Well, I don't know about the murder rates right now, but the number of killings before and after the bombings were pretty much the same. No real improvement. Strengthen democracy? They can't even elect a president now, because everybody thinks that the whole thing stinks and nobody shows up at the elections. Yep, we'll just bomb some more in 50 years when tensions rise again. Slobo was thrown out? Sure, but at the 11th attempt. With Slobo in power, Yugoslavs tried to throw him from power over and over again. The silence from the rest of the world was overwhelming. Nobody cared, nobody listened. Half a million of the elite who were at the forefront in trying to overthrow him left the country in dispair. If they had been given just a little support, the whole catastrophy may have been avoided. As it is now, it is just a matter when the region explodes again.

If Saddam had actually had WMDs that were a threat, then urgent action may have been needed. But the evidence put forward by US administration sucks badly. It consistently falls apart on examination. Besides, it is backed by blatant lies and misinformation, that has no other purpose than scaring people. Such as "given enough high-grade uranium, Saddam can makes nukes within six months". Well, yeah, I'm a physicist, and I can do that too, but I wouldn't need six months!

At the same time, the same mistakes are committed over and over again. There are some of republics of central asia that are not democratic at all. In fact, they are highly oppressive. Even, it may be getting worse while we're watching. But, because they're now "allies", we're looking the other way, instead of supporting those working for democracy. It's the same story over again. It is the same reason why the US supported Iraq and Saddam, why they now support the oppressive regimes in particulary Uzbekistan and Kirgistan. They're only making it worse. Are you looking the other way now, because you president says that you should? Then please don't come shouting for bombs in 20 years from now!

It is time to think things over, and take a different path.

There is a huge, well-educated middle class in Iraq, and they are the key to overthrowing Saddam. Making sure that these people can start thinking about politics again rather than worrying about getting food on the table or a US bomb down their chimney is probably the best thing you can do to forward democracy in Iraq. They allready have to worry about Saddam's agents, so removing a couple of worries can only be a good thing. The problem is, Saddam knows it, and his power is now so well established, supporting those is going to be really, really difficult.

There's another path. Iran has made huge progress lately, pretty much in spite of US efforts. Most of the Iranian population is really young, and they don't want to take any more bullshit from the old moronic fundamentalists.

There is also a bunch of forward-thinking academics, who is not afraid to challenge the theocracy, and many internationally minded scientists.

Not long ago, Iran joined CERN. Yep, that's the european nuclear research organization. Those who are thinking "nuclear, iran, scary!" are missing the point, and need to RSFH (read some f* history).

Empowering these people in Iran is very likely going to light that candle of democracy in the region that Bush is talking about. Without bombs, without a war. Without USians becoming subject of hate all over the world. Without sacrificing human rights, like pretty much every US intervention has done in the past. It is going to bring about change made the people themselves, it is going to empower people in the entire region, possibly in the entire world to bring about change. It is what can make tyrants tremble.

You know, there are success stories when it comes to peaceful transitions, take Guatemala for example, Bolivia had also an extremely corrupt and violent government but popular uprising did the trick there. To some extent, the wide attention that South Africa got helped the transition there. Military action is not, and has never been the only way. But looking the other way, has never helped.

You're going to spend something like $50 billion on war, very likely. Imagine what you can do with those money, if you instead make an investment in empowering the people who wants to see change?

I'm appalled at the lack of imagination shown by most of these posts.

First off if you read the PDF (15M) report to Nasa prepared by Bradley C. Edwards to satisfy the requirements of his $500 000 grant you will readily see that this is totally feasible.

Next check out the website - where they are calling for people to express interest in working on this project. They expect to be hiring in the next year or so. You'll also see that serious people are taking this seriously. Do you want a job?

Next understand that $17B is not very much money. Considering that BP just spent $6.7B on a oil company in Russia and has plans for more purchases.

I meantion BP because they have a plan to move beyond oil.... BP Solar is BP's attempt to become a broader energy company (check out their new sun logo) instead of an oil company. The High Lift systems news page says: -

BP Solar - a subsidiary of British Petroleum, currently doing $300M in annual sales. Our discussions have focused on BP's interest in using the SE for deployment of a solar energy satellite. Several items that came up included possible collaborative efforts, the performance of our system and the possibility of BP using our system. They are considering writing a letter of endorsement

If BP with the cash they have can throw $6.75 B at Russia they could, over 5 years, finance a large share of the Space Elevator. Who needs the Government? In fact Nasa would make sure it costs more to build than it should. Nasa is a bureaucracy, not a business, and is ill-suited to the sort of cost control required of economically viable business decision. Only communists would argue that a Space Elevator should be built and controlled by government.

What would BP Solar do? Build Power Sats....

These are High Lift's vision for the main use for the Space Elevator. Imagine a fleet of these beaming power to anywhere on earth. Every country on the planet could get cheap electricity without the huge national grid infrastructure required now. Without the huge investments in time and resources to build power stations - and without the fossil fuel use.

Use your imagination.

These ideas have been the subject of SF for decades - but the Space Elevator is now possible due to those nifty Carbon Nano-tubes.

When your imagination focussed by the reality of this thing actually being built in the near term (5 years) everything changes - and it'll change for us not our children. It'll change our careers.

Imagine this - an electric airplane that is powered by a Powersat beaming microwaves to it. No fuel to carry, super efficient travel - and at what speeds?

These guys are planning for the Space Elevator to be operational SOON - they have realistic timelines.

What I want to see here is some discussion of the uses that could realistically be made of a space elevator. We're the generation that will built it, use it and be changed by it. I like the parallel to be made with electricity, or flight, or the steam engine - in the early stages everyone probably dismissed it - and the world changed despite them.

What would you realistically (with a nod towards economic viability) do with the low launch costs they're projecting - $10/LB...

Ideas anyone?

Well, we're obviousy getting our propaganda from opposite ends fo the spectrum.

Propaganda? Those were terse statements of simple facts. Nobody can dispute them. I leave open the question of why one "end fo the spectrum" hides from those truths. Don't like cannabisnews? There's plenty of other places to back up that claim. Do you find the BBC more worthy of trust? Someone wanted sources, I just gave the top few Google hits. 10 minutes there will get you a flood of consistent claims. (Some more links, for those too busy to search on their own)

Justbecuase we gave the Taliban money doesn't mean they complied very quickly or effctively.

Oh, so paying the Taliban for doing nothing is a lot better? The reasons Clinton called them evil in 1999 didn't go away.
(But they really did destroy the drug. Quite possibly the largest drug interdiction that has ever happened. Ask any street-level narc what's happening to the price or heroine these days- it's dropping steeply after the 2001 hikes.)

My understanding is that the Taliban was a loose conglomerate of several groups.

Not "loose", at least not relative to what preceded and followed them. The Taliban was the most strongly unified government in Afganistan for more than a decade.

Also, realize that it's an execute order, not a law.

Yeah, it sounds like a violation of US separation of powers, huh? Nevertheless, there are laws which declare it is illegal to violate an executive order. Regarding "emergency foreign relations", the President can nearly write his own laws. In 2002, an American citizen was prosecuted under them.

In the case of direct and specific requests of the President conflicting with previus executive orders,

Then the President should revoke that order. (This has often happened) To do otherwise is the baldest hypocracy. In a free society, the set of actions which only the government is allowed to do must be kept as small as possible.

(Note- I'm not being partisan. Clinton is similarly guilty. In November 1998 he violated Executive Order 12333 Section 2.11, leading to costly repurcussions)

To launch soon.