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Australian Pilot Stranded In Antarctica
mirio writes "Australian Jon Johanson is currently stranded in Antarctica at the US McMurdo outpost. He was attempting a flight from New Zealand to Argentina via the South Pole when he encountered a headwind that caused him to burn more fuel and divert to the base. Now both the Americans and the New Zealanders there are refusing to sell him fuel. Jon's story is amazing. He has flown his homebuilt RV-4 around the world three times and to the North Pole. You can read about his trips around the world here."
and that that's the reason they won't sell him fuel, but damn, that's pretty inhospitable. Besides, subzero temperatures probably do a fair job of discouraging tourism anyways.
They should have sold him the gas, but for a high price.
Now what happens if he wants to stay with his plane and try to buy gas from the next shipment? If they act to prevent that, then I think they've crossed the line.
Who says that Antartica is theirs anyways?
Is this truly the only Earth I can live on?
Wait... that's Jon Johansen. For a moment I thought some serious retribution was going down :)
Besides tourism is fairly common in that part of the world anyway.
i recall hearing once that they don't let anyone into the antarctic base camp that they have if the person isn't registered with them ahead of time - i don't remember *where* i heard this, so take it with a grain of salt.
Is this standard practice for "adventurers": End up stranded somewhere through poor planning, and then expect someone else to bail him out and pay for it? Seems like it from the article. The bases did not refuse to sell him the fuel, they refused to give it to him. He could have offered to buy it, though the cost might be high - it's expensive to ship fuel to Antarctica and store it. Or he could have taken them up on their offer of a free flight home, with his plane to be shipped later.
And, of course, they're feeding and housing him for the time being.
Floating face-down in a river of regret...and thoughts of you...
Why should the U.S. or New Zealand taxpayers have to front the bill for this guy's foolish lack of foresight? Send him home freight class... or make him wash dishes.
Your paranoia is about as subtle as the alien probe in your neck.
Sell him the fuel at a VASTLY overinflated price, that would be more than enough to discourage tourism. And it would get him out of there ASAP.
I think $10 US/Gallon would be a fair stupidity tax.
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
Give him his 100 gallons so he can get home and then have him fly the 100 gallons back to them, if it's physically possible for him to do this. Seems like they are being kind of rude to him, but then again they don't *have* to sell him their gas, I suppose. Thinking about it, the kind of people they seem to be, you would think they want him out of there as son as possible.
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
At least they can't re-try him for pirating DVD's if he's stranded somewhere. Maybe this is a good thing for him.
At a stretch it's exploration, but science? No fricking way. So why does Slashdot think of it as such?
OK, so he's flying a kit plane - but it's not a kit plane that he designed, is it? It's one that he bought from a company that sold hundreds of them.
So I'll ask again, how is this news for nerds or stuff that matters? If I bought and assembled a kit car then drove it across the Sahara desert would that make the science section of Slashdot? On what basis?
I'm not trying to diminish Jon Johanson's achievements, I'm only trying to establish how this is remotely worthy of inclusion in this forum. No doubt that's enough to get me modded down as flamebait.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
And why do we have military bases there? They said they want to discourage tourism. This makes me want to go there and check it out.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
I feel these things about the computer systems that I build, and I appreciate the feeling. I also have a fetish for flying, and joined the Air Force to enjoy aircraft and being around them...even though my job is with computers.
Still, it stands out to me...I would not trust anything that I built to fly my ass down to the other end of the state...let alone over something as barren and deadly as the north/south poles.
It certainly takes a special kind of person to look at the plane that he built and say to himself "Yes, technically it can perform this task." and completely ignore the other voice in his soul saying "Although perhaps I should not force my luck."
I love flying, I really do. I love fixing aircraft and flying them. I also know not to try to fly over the damn south pole, north pole, or anywhere else that I might die in...assuming that I survive that 1 in 1,000,000,000 flight hours crash.
My gosh son. There is a reason that only military aircraft regularly fly over antarctica. Its because if it goes down...supposedly they can send another one...and...those people signed up to die in the service of their country.
There is one other person that I can think of with this mentality, and only one. Chuck Yeager. Perhaps this man should take his fearless and confident self down to the local recruiter and tell them he needs a new job as a test pilot.
Who is this that even the wind and the waves obey Him? Surely this computer must submit also!
Am I the only one who thinks the guy should be grateful to be alive? Hey, how about I go to Antarctica..., woop dee doo, woops, there's a bit of a headwind, wouldn't expect that in .. ANTARCTICA. Well, it's a good thing there's people smarter than me, I'm sure they'll save my ass for me. WHAT! I can't get gas!!! Well, no, I didn't plan ahead to possibly have gas shipped here, I figured I could just stop at an Exxon. I mean, there's Exxon all over Alaska, so why not here?
Anyways, fuck'm, he deserves the exact treatment they're giving him. And I bet they won't be charging him for the ride back, to boot.
Do you see the sig? Do you have it in your sights? Why yes, Miss Moneypenny...
Xenon, where's my money? -Borno
You'd think it would be very "Australian" for the Australian government to help out another Australian in his time of need. Why doesnt the Aussie government go and collect him? Does it have to do with what province he landed upon? Who cares? Australians should do it. Or maybe because the Australians rescued someone from britian (tony buliiblabla?) the Australian government says to england/britan, ok, you'r turn now, even thought this has nothing to do with them. That'd still be funny to see!
Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
What would it take to send him the fuel that is being refused. I don't blame him for not wanting to leave his plane. Refusing him fuel to discourage others from going. Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw today that said, "Growth destroys [insert city here]" only if it is someone else's growth I guess.
So, he runs into some strong unexpected headwind, and is able to land at a base that's really close to another base.
And the reason he's being denied fuel is because he had "no contingency plan".
Sounds like typical government double-speak to me. The contingency plan was obviously to land near the bases if he got too much headwind.
Now, they've got enough space on their ships to transport his plane home (at his cost) but they don't have enough fuel to sell him (at his cost).
Why am I not believing anything the NZ govt. spokespersons are saying?
http://www.antarctica.ac.uk/About_Antarctica/tour
I guess some people already have tourism packages there.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
And Australia even supported the US in the Iraq war. What has the US gained but some bad publicity? Maybe they should make him wait a while as a penalty, but sell the poor guy some fuel. Isn't that just the decent thing to do?
Yah, he should have planned ahead and gotten permission to have someone sell him fuel ahead of time, true. But if you're the only guy around for miles and you refuse to help someone out (and you can) you just look like a jerk. It's not as if this is a continuing problem, and every week there's some yahoo who needs to buy fuel because he was a dumb-ass.
Someone please tell me there's more to this story so I can feel a little better about the folks down in McMurdo.
AccountKiller
You should check out shackelton
This has been on the news for the past couple of days down here, news say that he didn't do much forward planning or contact any of the organisations in antarctica before hand to let them know what he was going to do ... it's probably this that annoys them most, having to rescue him because they didn't have a chance to advise him beforehand.
:-)
Got to admire his sense of adventure though
Maybe next year I'll get a chance to do an antarctic fly by.
It'd be a major undertaking just to get gas to Antarctica in the first place, they wouldn't keep large reserves, and even if they did sell it to him at a high price... It would still be a major problem for the base. Did I mention transporting things to Antarctica was EXPENSIVE? It's not like they have massive facilities to store fuel there anyway, they wouldn't have reserves, and if they sold him gas they'd have to transport more gas out there. Major inconvenience for the base.
The real reason they want to keep people out of there, is The Mountains of Madness, of course.
They're keeping us safe from ourselves.
It seems like those in Antartica feel the only "true" explorers are those funded by governments. How arrogant of them to call a person who has flown around the world three times in his own plane a "tourist". I sure hope there is a better explaination, because it is hard to believe that both groups in Antartica could have their perceptions skewed so far from reality.
So they're basicly impounding his $20k-$30K aircraft. The cost to crate and ship his plane
probably exceed it's value. So, in effect, they are confiscating his property in order to make their
point... pretty shitty
"Every time I see a soldier who enlisted so he could defend his country having to put his neck on the line, rappelling off a helicopter to save some middle-aged hero-wannabe jagoff who skied twenty miles off the clearly marked trail just so he could have a better pick-up line
- Dennis Miller
I really am sick of these A-holes that risk their lives for "adventure" and expect someone to bail their sorry asses out (and risk the rescuer's ass) when the adventure goes wrong. You know why we are all impressed with Sir Edmond Hillary? Because he could have died and no one was going to bail him out. He knew it and he went anyway. This "I am going to do something stupid and dangerous, and if things go wrong the rescuers will bail me out" attitude is another symptom of our modern Nanny-state. Mom will fix all my problems.
Don't feel too bad for this guy. He already has offers for 3 (count 'em three) flights home.
If you brough enough food and fuel for your party to last a given amount of time in a rather unhospitable place would you give/sell it to some random person who stopped by if it meant you may not be able to get home?
Now would be the time to learn to hunt the local penguin species.
That will provide him with some food and maybe a penguin coat or two allowing him to not starve and stop being a freeloader on the resident Americans and New Zealanders.
Then he can try modifying his plane to run on penguin fat and other combustable penguin materials.
F7 doesn't work, ignore spelling and grammar
MEDIA RELEASE 10 DECEMBER 2003
/Scott Base unable to depart until he can get more fuel. The Australian Government is currently negotiating with relevant US/NZ authorities to assist.
Jon Johanson sets new Polar Flight record
On Monday 8 December, Australian pilot, Jon Johanson became the first pilot to fly a homebuilt, single engine aircraft over the South Pole. It is believed that he is also the first person ever to fly a fixed wing aircraft solo over the South Pole on a long distance flight.
Jon set this new world record during a non-stop flight from Invercargill, New Zealand to overfly the South Pole before landing at the joint US(McMurdo) / NZ (Scott )Base in Antarctica.
He flew his special RV-4 aircraft, call sign VH-NOJ, that he has already flown three times around the world including over the North Pole.
His aircraft was modified for this history-making flight with a specialised engine and increased fuel capacity.
The total flight distance was 3,345 nautical miles and took 26.5 hours.
The flight has taken years of planning. Jon is delighted to have made it this week, in time for the centenary of powered flight on 17 December 2003.
Jon's flight is an amazing effort, worthy of recognition in the history of aviation as a true endurance flight in an experimental aircraft. He has re-created the pioneering spirit that led to that first powered flight a 100 years ago.
Jon left his home town of Adelaide South Australia quietly on Saturday morning for a 10 hour flight to Invercargill, New Zealand.
Jon took off for his record flight on Sunday, at 5.30pm Adelaide time (8pm in New Zealand). He planned to fly direct from Invercargill to the Antarctic, over the South Pole and then to Ushuaia in Argentina.
But headwinds were much stronger than forecast. With airports few and far between in the Antarctic, Jon changed his destination to fly to McMurdo after overflying the South Pole. Jon remains at McMurdo
Last week Jon made a final test flight, setting a new class record Round Australia, flying the designated course from Adelaide via Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Townsville, Darwin, Port Hedland (fuel stop), Carnarvon, Perth and back to Adelaide. His elapsed time was 38.5 hours which included only one stop of 1.5 hours. This record breaking flight was just one of the flights in the extensive test program undertaken during the planning for the flight over the South Pole.
All the work on Jon's aircraft was done at Parafield Airport in South Australia, mostly self-funded by Jon with some help from a few key sponsors who were willing to support Jon's vision with their products and services.
Photos of Jon are available on http://users.senet.com.au/~jonj/photos.html
The north poll sucks.
An advertisement for Van's aircraft, disguised as a story about a guy stuck in Antarctica.
...he was smuggling pirated DVDs to Norway! It's right out of a Scooby Doo episode!
Granted he should have had the foresight and planning in place to deal with foreseeable contingencies, but the spirit of adventures like Francis Chichester, Richard Halliburton, Richard Burton and others is a staple of our lore. Maybe the world has grown to small to make allowances.
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
rather interesting story, one with lots of good morals inside it.
:)
I think the guy planned quite poorly considering he was overflying the south pole. One shouldnt indulge in such a journey without making some serious contingency plans.
On the other hand, I think both the US and NZ governments are being a bit of an ass. I would imagine selling him 100 gallons of fuel for a fairly high price (i'm sure its not cheap to bring in there, plus call it a stupidity tax) isnt a major strech on their part. But then bureacrats never seem to have a problem picking the worst possible solution
Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
What the fuck is wrong with you people? Are your souls dead? Are you so satisfied in your insulated safe little lives, so dependent on the government and society in general providing youwith a safety net that you cannot concive stepping out of it? Going so far as to insult someone who does? So shut the fuck up. He HAD a contingency plan. It was "There are bases there with air strips I can land at". Its the same contigency plan I have every day when I leave for work. I understand that if I am involved in an accident and am incapacitated, that total strangers will actually stop and help.
Why didn't he just contact those guys in Antarctica (or someone that could in turn contact them) so he was sure that it would be ok with them if he needed some help out there.
Sure, it might be silly of them to not offer fuel, but maybe they have their reasons to why they aren't doing that, but offering him a trip home as an alternative solution. Can't really blame them with a guy at least as silly, going to Antarctica and relying on people's hospitality when he could have used his brain a little before going there. It doesn't take a genius to understand that maybe you should check if there's anyone there to help if you'd happen to crash on one of the most inhospitable places on earth. He should be glad everything got sorted out so well, with them giving options to get home and also offering him a place to stay while waiting for it. That's a perfectly reasonable solution to me.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Better keep an eye on the dog and the Doctor, and keep a flamethrower handy.
Let the US do it. Just make sure the sell is from the closest 7-11 in the US then give him a gas can and tell him to walk his ass there and get it.
Here is a radio interview with him, and the point of view of another Australian adventurer.
From what I see, the Americans are being pretty unreasonable and the New Zealanders are basically having to do a bit of arse licking with the Americans as of late, as being an ally equates to bending over, as far as the current US government is concerned.
do you live in another state from where you work?
maybe you need to lay off the tweed there, buddy...
The BBC story saying he has no 'contingeny plan' and not cared about 'Search & Rescue'. If the pilot doesn't care about S&R in remote areas, he has done poor planning. Considering any emergeny which forces him to land away from any base as unlikely is just dump. I've read Impact Erebus by Gordon Vette which is about the story of the Air New Zealand DC-10 which near McMurdo in 1978. Even a Search & Rescue operation close to McMurdo was incredibly complicated and no one wants to search a crashed pilot when it's even unlikely to find him (he hasn't told anyone) and it's unlikely for him to survive. I'm not surprised that people don't encourage him to continue. Besides ... he has probably landed his airplane at cMurdo Williams Field. There is no such thing as a runway at the New Zealand base, the only other runways down there are the Pegasus Field and the Ice Runway both located a few miles away on the shelf ice.
fm
You think he's having a tough time without fuel? Try being a researcher with perpetual frostbite who happens to know precisely how much fuel it takes to keep the equipment running until the next supply comes in. Should I lower my environmental temp 2 degrees for three months for this guy? Not on my life!
It's not like he can fill up a five gallon can and be on his way. This guy is going to need some serious juice to get back where he came from...
What a pity it would be if Americans learnt something about another country.
Australia.... that's in Europe right? Do you speak American there?
Yes, I mean even a hobbit has enough sense to consult mapquest!
--- root@127.0.0.1
Sell him the gas at a markup, give him a bill for the food and shelter, and call it a day. No reason to be dicks about it; you din't have to pull him out of the water, or track him down on some ice floe.
He landed at your base.
Shit, if it was Peter Jackson, you'd be asking if he'd like his massage with full release at 3 or 4 pm...
Heres a solution: Start an auction and whoever the lowest bidder is can fly him a shipment of fuel.
It might not be cheap, but it sounds like shipping a plane out would be more expensive than shipping fuel in.
it was actually a SWISS base next to the americans. and the guy in the plane was shooting at a dog, that got away before he blew himself up.
that american base has about 3 days to figure this one out.
They are not a freaking gas station and I am sure their resources are very limited.
I found the links to the treaty regarding Antartica, and it appears as if no country is in complete control. So, if I wanted to go and tour, can I just rent a plane and go? What if I found some inverstors who thought Antartica was the next big tourist spot, and they wanted to invest thier money building a resort there? Could that be done? Who would you buy the land from, or is this like the wild west, where you just pick a spot and say "MINE".
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
What arrogant SOB's the stations are to not sell him some gas.
Maybe they should give him the gas.
Then send a bill to him for the full cost of making a special delivery to replenish exactly what he took.
Maybe a 5 figure gas bill would to more to discourage morons like this than free room and board.
I hope that isn't shipping isn't COD....
You can read about his trips around the world here.
LSD in Madrid, psilocybin in Port Lincoln, and mescaline in Australia. Elves: everywhere...are they mistaking him for Jon Johansen, from Norway? I could see why certain xxAA would like to have him stranded in Antarctica...
After all, SG-1 discovered it a few years back. It's close to McMurdo.
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
It could have been worse - he could have landed in the Norwegian zone of Antartica and been prosecuted again for writing DeCSS.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
<deliverance>
Yew shore got a pretty mouth, boy.
</deliverance>
Sacred cows make the best burgers.
NZ is a bloody long way away from South America, even if you take the shortcut over Antarctica. The size of that plane looks like it could barely hold enough fuel to get that far even in favourable conditions. It seems likely that he always intended to be a visitor to the Antartic... I mean it takes a C130 hercules a full load of fuel and about 12 hours to go from NZ to Scott Base in Antarctica and back...
Personally, I hope they run his expensive kit plane thru a overgrown paper shreader and ship it home to him in Mason jars. If for no other reason than to discourage some other damn fool for doing the samething three weeks from now.
Needless to say I don't feel one once sorry for him. His crisis is far from anyone elses emergency.
Sell him the gas at a markup, give him a bill for the food and shelter, and call it a day.
There are two problems:
First, to sell the gasoline at cost would still be an exhoribant amount of money, because you have to factor in the price of delivery to Antarctica, which ain't exactly cheap.
Second, even if they recovered the delivery cost, they're still short of fuel, and won't be able to just send out for it the next day. They need their fuel for their own uses, and can't just give it up for any Joe that happens to take off without enough of his own.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
There are many other closed airfields around the world, mostly military bases. While they might let you land your plane, if you have a real emergency. Don't expect them to be happy about it, and be prepared to have your plane shipped to you in a crate, freight collect.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
According to local NZ news, he was warned that he did not have enough fuel to make it to Argentina before he left, and that fuel was NOT available in Antartica. IMO NZ miltary and search and rescue spend way too much of taxpayers money rescueing idiots who try to cross the vast distances around us with few or no backups.
Like a guy that has just been rescued for the second time trying to row to Argentina. His boat has now been confiscated by the police to try to recover some of the rescue costs.
so does the south pole
Governments (especially the US) have made an art out of screwing many capable people whos detailed antarctic plans have hit some unlikely snag, despite there best intent. It is likely this guy arranged nothing in advance with McMurdo frankly because he knew by reputation what there response would be. Adventure Network International fly planes into antartica for climbing expeditions and they have been fighting against these attitudes since day 1. They have to bring in everything themselves including return trip fuel. They normally refuel at a BAS base where they have shipped fuel to in advance. Check out the history of Giles Kershaw if you want evidence that even the very best antarctic pilot faces random chances and poor odds.
At least this guy hasn;t been forcably 'rescued' so far against his will, that has been the fate of some of his predecessors.
Imagine you're driving through Texas or Oklahoma or something, deep in the heart of nowhere. You've been driving into the wind so your gas ran out sooner than you expected. You pull into a gas station -- it's open, and they have gas. But they won't sell you any, because they want to discourage other outsiders like you from invading their space (which isn't even theirs; they only moved there last month). They say: Too bad, you should've had a contingency plan. They'd be happy to put you on the first bus home, though. They can even have your car towed for you if you want, at your expense.
Great attitude, diptwats.
Using data from: http://www.centurion-engines.com/company/press_030 217_da42.htm
So the Diamond Twinstar, a very light twin engine aircraft with a 100 gallon fuel tank like this guy evidently has could go a little over 4000 miles.
100 g / 3gph -> 33 hrs
33 hrs * 110 ktas -> 3630 nm
3630 nm * 1.15 nm/sm = 4174.5 statute miles
I believe this was farther than what was planned.
Granted, the Twinstar has amazing fuel efficiency, but it seems entirely plausible, then, that he could have made it in an aircraft designed to travel long distances, had it not been for stronger than expected headwinds.
Flying over South Pole in a home-built small airplane is an achivement of sorts for humanity, because people haven't been able to do this before. Also, the guy landed safely and didn't risk anyone's life for rescue.
Give the guy a break and someday you might see a team of entusiasts launching a manned spaceflight into orbit from a home-made high-altitude baloon. Do you think Columbus would discover America without some risk and even reclessness?
You should try buying fuel over here in the UK. $10/Gallon doesn't sound too bad where I am.
We have countless numbers of British Adventurers who due to a mid-life crisis or a death-wish have decided to Row/Swim/Dog-Sled/Hike/Crawl across every inhospitable land/ocean.
At some point you wished they would stay home and start hobby or have an affair to deal with their life's inadequacies.
Researcher: "I'm not selling gas to you. Maybe you're the alien."
Jon: "Maybe you're the alien."
Researcher: "Maybe you're the alien!"
Jon: "Maybe you're the alien!"
etc...
I don't think that 100 gallons of fuel is an insignificant amount in a place where shipments are probably only made every 3-6 months.
I would much prefer to ensure the that fuel was used to help the researchers and their support teams in an emergency rather than some adventurer's poorly planned and whimisical flight of fancy.
Please don't think I undervalue the benefits of exploration and adventure, but what this guy has done is like climbing Everest and not packing a spare tent or two. He's just assumed that the others will bail him out. That's wrong.
If the 1996 Everest Disaster and the 1998 Sydney To Hobart Yacht Race proved nothing else, they demonstrated that Heros die when they go to help others. Being a so-called adventurer and forcing others into risking their lives to help you is completely irresponsible.
I think that offering him food, shelter and a return trip home is extremely generous. Expecting to get fuel that is part of someone else's contingency against disater is nothing short of foolishness.
"The big question in our lives is how to be at the same time a hedonist and in a hurry" - Alain Ducasse (?)
He wants to fly his plane out of their, instead of having it shipped. He's willing to pay good money for the fuel, right?
Well, it's easy. Let him use the phone to call and arrange for a fuel shipment. He can pay someone to bring him the fuel that he needs, and he's getting free room and board.
Sure, instead of the $400 or so the AVGAS would normally run him, it might cost him $15,000 to have it delivered. And it might take some time. So what?
He'll get to fly his plane out of there, and he'll have a little bit of time to sit around thinking "Gee, I really SHOULD have planned that better. Maybe next time I'll check if I should turn around BEFORE I get to the point-of-no-return."
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
Saying that having no contingency plan for a trip like this was a little stupid. Sort of reminds me of the around the world yacht racers where they contingency plan is to rely on whatever Navy is close enough to help them out. Just give the poor guy some fuel (make him pay heavy costs) and send him on his way.
- Mark
There seems to be an attitide that Antartica is reserved for science. It is tax-payer funded science and tourists are not allowed apart from the ocassional cruise ship and the people just step ashore for short periods.
Sorry, that isn't on any more. Controlled access is the answer but that would mess with too many treaties. So-called eco-tourism is working elsewhere and helps to fund the locals, the same could be done for Antartica and the cost of transporting supplies and removing rubbish to and from the bases can be subsidised by tourists.
See my journal, I write things there
A stranded plan in the ice with a frozen australian man IS a tourist attraction, at least for some on /.. they should sell him fuel asap, or they will see hordes of geeks flooding into their station.
Everyone seems to assume that there is some excess of fuel in antarctica, that can readily be sold, if only Australia/New Zealand/US researchers were not being assholes.
What do you think will happen if the give this guy fuel from their limited supplies, and then have an emergency themselves? Its not like they can just order some more and have it arrive quickly, especially if there is bad weather.
Umm, can I submit a response later?
But the BBC isnt, and if you chjeck the link, you will find that is the original source of the article.
Thye are one of the world largest news/online content providers.
bah!*@%!
From the same base as the one that won't sell this guy fuel, no less (because now they want to discourage tourism).
Yeah, that makes sense...
Anyone got an address of the people in question? Perhaps a few words of persuasion from the /. crowd might convince them to behave in a manner more in keeping with the spirit of Admiral Byrd.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
As a New Zealander I have always regarded Aust. as our West Island.
Just like the Americans secretly want to invade Canada, we would like to take over Austrailia.
We have already begun by acquiring all their major breweries.. We have also tried to bankrupt the Aussie people by flooding them with unemployable layabouts. We managed to plant Rusell Crowe in the modst of their unsuspecting masses!
Why do you think Weta Digital needs all those PCs and the appearance of the 'civilan' missle maker..
Wow... First DVD's, then iTunes, and now this... ;)
.. to have the petri dish, scalpel, hot wire and associated blood test kit for when he comes back.. just in case.
Interestingly enough, the real question seems to be insurance; guy has no insurance cover for tagging his plane along on a ship. Also, there were a few comments here suggesting that he was taking a Great Circle "short-cut" while flying over the Antarctic; he wasn't, he was only trying to be the first man ever to fly over the South Pole on a homemade plane. Or whatever.
And oh, he has time only till (next?) Thursday to decide, or face spending Christmas and the New Year there.
More than mere navel gazing.
See what happens when you crack DVD "protection"?
Oh, that's another Jon Johanson...
Well there's a bit of irony... Here they are with only enough to fuel to last until the next shipment. Some contigency plan they have! Somehow I doubt that an outfit like that is floating along on just enough fuel.
Those monkeys that filter through submissions and post stuff to slashdot need to work faster or something. This same artical was posted on Fark like 16 hours before it made it to Slashdot.
Just an amusing, but totally offtopic tidbit...
My Auntie from Philadelphia(sp?) came to visit our little village in the arse end of Lincolnshire (in England). On her first sunday there we went to church in the village and my Auntie found the need to proclaim... "England really lacks history you know, not like philly..."
My local church was built sometime in the 1600s and a short drive up the coast will take you to Boston harbour (one of the original pilgrim departure sights).
After all they have a big bell.. England only has the building it was made in.... (okay, i will purposely ignore the fact the damn thing was shit and it broke)
okay, hit me with them mod points....... I'm on the Karma elevator to hell and it's going DOWN
bah!*@%!
The base offered to supply fuel for free but the MPAA got involved at the last minute as punishment for losing the DeCSS case.
Not science, but existing scientific policy. On message, if you ask me.
Australia has bases there and controls a huge chunk of the continent. He had originally planned to fly to Argentina, and if he's only an hour short of there, surely he has enough fuel to fly to an Australian base instead?
.. doesn't make $10/Gallon over-inflated in the view of others.
Regular auto gas where I live (The Netherlands) is about 1.10 Euro per Litre, the 100LL aviation gas required by his RV is about 2 Euro per litre. That's pretty close to $10 per gallon already...
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
That guy is not in danger. He has already been rescued, which is why he's not starved and frozen by now. What's under discussion now is whether he gets to fly himself home like a returning hero, or deal with some additional inconvenience and expense as a result of this situation of his own making and have to come back on the next regular flight.
From here: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/11/10710862 02326.html
t m
"Sanson said he understood Johanson struck very high head winds soon after leaving Invercargill, on the southern tip of the south island.
"We believe it would have been wiser to turn around when he got into difficulties," he said.
Sanson said Antarctica New Zealand, the national scientific research program, could not provide the 47-year-old with fuel anyway because it did not have aviation gas, and the petrol it had was not of aviation quality.
"It's very unclear that at McMurdo or Scott base we have the fuel he needs," he said.
"We've done all we possibly can in terms of the resources we have."
Sanson said Johanson's expedition seemed "very ill planned", adding the adventurer had no search and rescue back up or contingency plans and only had a two-hour fuel margin for a 33-hour flight in his flight plan."
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/s1008265.h
New Zealand's side of the story:
"Antarctica New Zealand spokeswoman Shelly Peebles said American and New Zealand authorities were being painted in a bad light but Mr Johanson had taken a very irresponsible approach.
She said he filed a flight plan just before he left but kept his South Pole flight plan a secret because he knew both American and New Zealand authorities would have stopped it.
"All our research points to the fact that this guy had one mission in mind and that was to fly over the South Pole," she said.
"He abdicated complete personal responsibility for any kind of contingency plan or consideration of how he was going to get back with limited fuel.""
The other side of the story:
Mr Johanson says he spent months studying weather patterns in the Antarctic before he left, including "a lot of time talking with Australia's top Antarctic weather forecaster".
"Any suggestion that this was a flight on a whim is far from accurate," he said. "Weather is only one very small segment of the whole flight, but it can happen to any flight anywhere in the world that things just don't work out as forecast.
"Weather can't be an exacting science. You can't blame the weathermen. I guess, technically, we should have made the decision earlier, and that was where the mistake was made."
It seems like he is insisting on the fuel rather than the flight out because it will be waaaaaay more expensive to take the flight out and have the plane shipped to him.
As horrible as that grammar is....
You're being taxed to subsidize mass transit. higher fuel costs make mass transit more attractive, and more people using mass transit makes mass transit affordable.
If you have low priced fuel, instead of mass transit you get Amtrak.
paintball
Just found an old article from The Times magazine (dead tree version) on Antarctic expedition.
Apparently there are actually specialised fuel operators servicing the Antarctic and in 2002, the fuel was being delivered at $11/gallon. (Only 2x the UK forecourt price.)
However, I've just been reading in serveral places on the web that the fuel price has tripled since last year, placing it at $33/gallon!
I would suggest that a reasonable 'idiot' tax would be $100(US) per gallon and he might think twice about trying again.
It may also be the case that they dont have excess fuel to sell.
Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
Wondering if that ship in Cast Away (aside:horrible movie, btw. kind of made-for-an-oscar for Tom Hanks) should not have picked up Tom Hanks, with the captain claiming they r not a hitch-a-hike vehicle.
Or would we have heard of a certain Mr. Robinson Crusoe?
And you come crashing my party without an invitation, *YOU'RE* the jerk.
paintball
Just found an old article from The Times magazine (dead tree version) on Antarctic expedition.
Apparently there are actually specialised fuel operators servicing the Antarctic and in 2002, the fuel was being delivered at $11/gallon. (Only 2x the UK forecourt price.)
However, I've just been reading in serveral places on the web that the fuel price has tripled since last year, placing it at $33/gallon!
I would suggest that a reasonable 'idiot' tax would be $100(US) per gallon and he might think twice about trying again.
If it was up to me, I'd say, you pay $3000/gallon and you can fly your plane home. If not, we'll take it apart and ship it back to you for $3000 all-in before the end of the season.
It may also be the case that they dont have excess fuel to sell.
Ripping an new rectum in the fabric of spacetime.
No, they're floating along on more than enough fuel until their next shipment arrives. However, "more than enough" may end up being "just enough" if the next shipment is delayed in some fashion.
In other words, the excess fuel is their contingency plan -- something the pilot in question obviously didn't have.
All that base belong to US.
paintball
The cost of getting fuel to troupes during the invasion of Iraq was $90/galon. I'm sure it's a lot more to ship it to Antarctica, you think they get regular deliveries from the tanker trucks there? I'd be willing to bet that with transportation costs, fuel could be worth over $100/galon.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
"Antarctica New Zealand, the national scientific research program, could not provide the 47-year-old with fuel anyway because it did not have aviation gas, and the petrol it had was not of aviation quality. "
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/12/11/107108 6202326.html
"The US McMurdo exploration base in Antarctica is one of the most remote outposts in the world. Located on a scenic ice plain with an astounding view of iceberg-laden ocean, McMurdo is the ultimate destination for those seeking an escape from civilization or just a visit with an Emperor Penguin. But if you plan on a minimally-planned long-distance Antarctic flyover into a strong headwind with no invitation and no feul reserve, make sure you bring your Visa card, because Ross Island's McMurdo Station doesn't take American Express."
paintball
It included the following paragraph:
But, of course, saying, "They didn't sell him fuel because they didn't have any," is not as "newsworthy" as saying, "Those heartless bastards refused to help him out."Just another typical stupid Australian, They're almost as bad if not worse them the Americans.
Robert Heinlien said "Australians are just like Americans, only more so." in "Travel Royale"
I think UK motorists conveniently like to forget that we have more miles of road per capita than anywhere else.
Yes, the taxation is used on more than just the roads (by the way, the average cost of a traffic accident is 100,000 pounds, once you factor in things like clean-up, emergency service call out, etc), but alcohol and tobacco taxes are used to pay for more than just the cost of treating the relating illnesses too. Taxation isn't homogenous and it can't be, which is something that motoring organisations often fail to realise.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Finally, after a couple hours of contemplation and reading the other replies I have devised my most witty reply possible.
Get ready.
What if, instead of fuel being denied, it was in fact landing space being denied. Imagine the situation where he was denied passage onto either of the bases there and forced (by force[I love english] if necessary) to crash land elsewhere. I think that in my world things would be looked at differently, don't you?
---Excuse the bad English, I'm American---
My question is, between hacking DeCSS and ITunes, how does he find the time to tour Antarctica??
-Copyright law #69:Whenever Mickey Mouse is about to enter the public domain,copyrights get extended by 25 years.
They won't sell him fuel, but they make him sleep in the fuel shed. That's just cruel :P
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
One extra gallon per 300 needed? That's not a contingency plan.
Except that those bases have repeatedly and publicly stated that THIS IS THE WRONG THING TO BELIEVE. This jerkoff isn't the first amateur half-ass to get stranded in Antartica and expect scientific bases to suddenly bail him out. Even the slightest amount of pre-trip research would have told him that they do not have spare fuel.
The "I've always relied on the kindness of strangers" approach? Nothing personal, pal, but that's fucking stupid. "I don't need to pack the trunk with flares or a spare tire or a jack or a blanket or a gallon of water or some food -- surely within minutes of the breakdown/accident/whatever, some random person will come by and give me all the supplies I need."
I almost died from exposure less than 20 miles from home (snowstorm, -15 degrees F, freezing rain, and a flat tire), and I live in fucking Ohio, the dullest place on earth. In a major city, too, not the boonies. Fortunately, I had a heavy blanket and a good spare tire in the car. After getting it changed, I drove straight to the hospital to be treated for frostbite. Not another vehicle ever drove by; if I'd waited for a total stranger I'd likely be dead.
That was Ohio. This dipshit went to Antartica and planned less than I did.
You cannot apply a technological solution to a sociological problem. (Edwards' Law)
Dick Smith should fly down with the fuel. He flew round the world, pole to pole in a fixed wing (in addition to his helicopter circumnavigations). He also found the US base very inhospitable.
I think he would really enjoy pissing them off by giving the guy the fuel.
The point is, if fuel taxes were considerably lower, driving would be a more attractive alternative as compared to mass transit, and you'd have more people using cars, reducing the effectiveness of mass transit.
paintball
Vonnegut is never off topic...
Still pissed about loosing the rugby.
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
Look at that map (or better, look at the larger map someone else above posted). Notice the massive overlaps between UK, Argentina, and Chilean claims? Notice the "undefined extent" label attached to the Norwegian claim (on the larger map, but not on your smaller map). These are mere claims, mostly unrecognized except by other nations with non-overlapping claims (all 5 of them). The Antartica Treaty you linked to lists as one of its provisions that "Territorial claims in Antarctica not affected by the Convention." So the existence of the treaty in no way means that claims have been recognized by signatory states. The territorial claims have no practical result at the moment (the US puts bases all over the place, despite having no claims), and they'll mean even less if anyone ever finds anything of value in Antartica.
"The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than that of whether a submarine can swim" -EWD
Okay. Either the cold has gotten to these scientists minds, or they are the type of scientists who understand physics really well, but can't tie their shoes and misplace things all the time. You want to reduce tourism? Okay - And your method for achieving this goal is to not sell this individual some fuel for his plane, thereby creating a political situation between a few nations, and getting the story posted any number of places. More of the wonderful logic of my country.
Then you've got all the people posting that 'yeh - this guy is dumb! Screw him!' If there was a nice house at the top of the rockies and the Donner party got there, but the inhabitants said, no food or water, but we'll give you some straw to sleep on, we don't want to encourage visitors you know! w . t . f?
I know I know, they gave him room/board. But no fuel. Fine - but in my opinion they just got themselves more press than they would have had just selling this guy some fuel and letting him be on his way. I mean really- who wants to go to antartica? Santa is all about the North pole, so I'd think people would want to visit there first. S-Pole offers a pretty unique environment to do research in I imagine, so I see how it would have scientific appeal.
If the station is strapped for fuel and can't spare any, I understand that too! But I haven't seen any indication of that. Because of this fact, the fact he was 100% willing to pay for the fuel, and the fact that these scientists have now created a free commercial for themselves, leads to my decision that this just doesn't seem right, and that they should have sold him the fuel. Anyway.
The story headline is slightly misleading..he's not really stranded; the natives have brought him to their village, given him food and water and a cot. They just hope that he doesn't fall in love with the beautiful daughter of the chief and make her leave the tribe with him for the new world.
More miles of road per capita than anywhere else? I doubt it - there simply isn't enough space. You do the math....
Anyway, the UK has pretty much the most expensive fuel in Europe, AND the most expensive (not to mention worst) public transport. So whatever the hell we are subsidising with fuel tax, it ain't public transport!
no taxation without representation!
Grammar up with which you cannot put?
Oh, I agree completely. Now if the buses hadn't been privatised in a way that created unnacountable local monopolies, things might even be bearable by now. As it is, other than in London, we've got the worst of both worlds here: fuel prices worthy of Antarctica, together with public transport services worthy of Antarctica.
Did I get away with being off-topic by mentioning Antarctica twice? :-)
perl -e 'fork||print for split//,"hahahaha"'
Yup, pensioners are - the council tax in many areas of the UK is quite high e.g. a band D house in croydon (68001...88000 pounds - 1 bedroom flat in poor location) would be 1086.47 per year. In a slightly better location a flat in the suburbs (128000 pounds=$223,000) costs 1569.34 in tax per year ($2,734.52 USD)
How much is the property tax in US suburbs?
Of course I find it odd when fully detached houses in e.g. south central los angeles are described as "slums". Such houses cost over $500,000 in croydon.
Maybe they're concerned that if they help this guy out*, the MPAA will come after them with all of their guns blazing...
* I know, different guy, different nationality, and slightly different spelling, but this is the MPAA we're talking about here.
IMO if the guy had filed a proper flight plan and had contingency measures in place even if those contingency measures had failed I think both the US and NZ would have been willing to hook the guy up with a little petrol.
But it needs to be expensive. I vote for five-figure-or-more expensive.
I don't think it's about money. There are adventurers out there who could probably buy either or both bases down there - so there needs to be a disincentive to doing stupid shit and expecting someone else to bail you out.
Weather reports are available and the guy had no backup plan, lied on his flight plan and didn't have anyone to bail his happy ass out if something went wrong. Well, something went wrong :)
If it costs him an airplane I think that's probaly fair - the stunt could easily have cost him his life. If the guy chose to fly across Antarctica and was short enough on fuel that a headwind forced him to land as far as I can see the guy is pissing in my gene pool.
we see things not as as they are, but as we are.
-- anais nin
More miles of road per capita than anywhere else? I doubt it - there simply isn't enough space. You do the math....
No, it's quite accurate. The UK does indeed have more miles per capita than anywhere else in the world. I did have a link to a Department of Transport consultation paper but it seems to have been moved.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
You're being taxed to subsidize mass transit. higher fuel costs make mass transit more attractive, and more people using mass transit makes mass transit affordable.
Actually most people (including me) wouldn't mind having such a high petrol prices, or toll motorways, as well as our (also quite high) road tax, if the public transit system in the UK actually worked! Considering how centrally concentrated most of the UK population is the rail and bus networks are abysmal.
Al.The Daily ACK - Eclectic posts by yet another hacker
We'll there get'n some pretty good lessons latly. That was my poor contribution. btw - im an australian, incase you thought i was yankeee
Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
Yup, thats what Australia should do:
Send a fuel ship, refuel the plane, and then crash the ship in front of USians base.
They'll really appreciate it a lot, they love fuel!
They can invade a country for fuel but can't sell some fuel to a poor old man in distress.
That will teach em.
I'm a chainsmokin' alcoholic sociopath, so-ci-o-path
Bull. The UK has about 60 million people, and around 370000 km of highways, making an average of 161 people pr km of highway.
Many many MANY smaller countries beat this by a wide margin. For example, Norway has 4.5 million people and 91000 km of highway for an average of only 49 people pr km of highway.
Also the treaty says that no claims on land are accepted. Particularly the US have been strongly against it, thus Norway (we were there first, damn it!) and a few others technically have a territorial dispute with the US. Of course the US subsequently sets up 2 bases (McMurdo and the Pole itself), but that's another story...
"Windows are for cheaters" - Bruce Springsteen
I was going to say RTFA, but in this case even that is not enough. Here are the facts (TM):
-The guy *has* been rescued.
-He has been given the chance to fly out in the next available flight.
-He is declining this generous offer, 'cuz he wants to take his toy airplane back with him.
-He did not have enough fuel to make an emergency landing and then carry on.
-The base has a limited amount of fuel, most of which is not airplane grade.
-The McMurdo station is a _research_ station. Not the Red Cross, the RAF nor the Coast Guard.
Personally, I would sell him the fuel. Then I'd go to google and search up for nomination form for the Darwin award, knowing that I would be likely to use it.
... make emergency landings everywhere all of the time. Its sortof expected that if you run any type of landing strip you do your best to help anyone out. I presume he filed a flight plan which is all you really have to do to get from a) to b).
It seems that in packing him off in a plane and his plane on the next ship they are being spiteful, not logical. The article said that they would be shipping him out on a flight, so if a flight can get in, bringing a few jerricans would be a good idea and charging him for support costs is more than fair.
Donte Alistair Anderson Roberts - hi son!
Karma: Chameleon
I agree with everything you say, except you can't have freezing rain at -15F (-26C).
Wow, the MPAA isn't playing games this time. To think all this time the appeal was a feint!
/. readers are hippie, deadbeat idiots.
Oh, and I think people who defend this idiot should be required to leave their addresses with their postings. I'm looking forward to a road trip.
There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
"DVD Jon" Jon Johansen may think that he can flee to Antarctica, but the MPAA now has local Antarctic judicial officials on their side (just a few $) and will soon extradite him to the US so "Infinite Justice" can be employed.
Who said, "NOW what did they do to that Decss guy? Shipping him to the arctic?"
-- Having a Creationist Museum is like having an Atheist place of worship
...don't expect people to help you accomplish it!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Press Release:
Due to poor planning and budget cuts, Australia has once again encountered snags conquering Antarctica. The australian defense minister was quoted as saying, "With this war on terrorism in Iraq we were evidently unable to plan properly. It also does not help that those americans have been no help at all. I am going to call George Bush and tell that we need that fuel to prevent the spread of terrorism in Antarctica. If the South Pole melts who knows what kind of devastation will be happen!" When questioned the White House responded "Fuck'em, the War of Terrorism is on our show and we will get around to conquering Antarctica when election time rolls around!"
Because the scientists are refusing to sell this joker fuel, fuel they most likely need themselves so they don't get in deep penguin-droppings like said joker.
I'm sure he can radio someone who can bring him all the fuel he needs, and he can pay for it and fly away (or crash). And they're being really nice letting him stay on the couch and all, for free no less.
He's just whining. So let's rewrite the headline as "South Pole Scientists Refuse to Bail Out Reckless Adventurer" and then the icon will make more sense.
This Like That - fun with words!
I computed the cost per rider for the Portland Oregon MAX light rail line when it was constructed in the 80's. Using the estemated ridershit and lifetime of the system, The cost per rider was over $20/per trip. Unfortunately, The ridership is only 1/2 of estimates. And the contunue to build more. At even higher per rider rates.
The key word being HIGHWAY. (Not road).
He flew into Oshkosh a few year ago. I've got video of me talking to him. He's logic for the first world flight was that to fly his plane to Oskosh from Australia was about half way around the world, why just turn around when you could keep going. He didn't seem any more crazy than any one else at Oshosh. Down right sane compaired to the French couple that few a Rans Cyote (a small plane that a 1000 mile trip would be an epic voyage in) over the North Alantic with out any cold water survial gear.
Fact is if I rember right he had to have the designer of the RV4 sign off on any changes he made to the oringal pains. The Australians are WAY more uptight about what you can do to an airplane you are building your self than the US.
What more could you expect? They are not an airfield or refuel station. Say I am climbing in the alps and get stranded. Can I then ask the rescue chopper to fly me to the top of the hill or drop me off at my hotel? Of course not. I get rescued. That is it. Nothing more nothing less. Rescue services are not cabs, hotels or supply stations.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Having been to Ross Island, both at Scott Base and McMurdo Station many times over the years, I can tell you straight up that you aren't seeing the whole truth here from the media reports.. 1.) First off, the RV-4 runs 100+ octane low lead AVGAS. Neither the Kiwi's or the Americans have any need for 100LL. Everythings run on Deisel or JP-5. There are no piston powered airplanes on Ross Island. There are trucks and tractors that may run regular gas, but at sub-freezing temps, I wouldn't try it in an airplane. Therefore, give or sell, there's no fuel down there for this guy. 2.) If he's to arrange for cargo shipment off the island of his plane, he'd better do so in a hurry. It's fast coming upon the time for Mac-Town to close down for the winter. He's going to have to coordinate with the National Science Foundation, which is the organization that arranges for the U.S. Coast Guard to break a channel into the fast-ice around Ross Island each year. More often than not, the cargo ships that enter the Ross Sea need to be escorted to the ice pier at McMurdo Station by an Icebreaker. It's bound to be a pricey proposition either way. The dude had to have lost his noodle flying that little kite over Antarctica during this time of year. Neither the Americans or the Kiwis should be forced to deal with this guy. I wonder if he's aware of the multitude of international treaties that he's subject to once he crosses south of 60 degrees....
I could have sworn Triple A stood for Anartican Airplane Association! Those sonsuvbitches!! $30 a year my ASS!
>>It is designed for engines of 150-160 >>horsepower, although engines as small as 125 hp >>and as large as 180 are approved and commonly >>installed.
I spend a lot of time painting it, you insensitive clod!
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
I guess that jackass expected scientists working in the farthest extreme of the planet to be impressed by his stunt.
I can see the pilot arrogantly walking up. (I worked at a small apt. when I was young, these little home built pilots think their cock is 20" long.)
Pilot: "Yeah, I need some fuel. Come get me inside when it's filled up."
Scientist: "Fuck off"
Pilot: "But I've flown around the world!"
Scientist: "Yeah, well I've been living on the ice here for 2 years, Fuck off."
Pilot: "But.. what will I do?"
Scientist: "Should have thought of that buddy. We're not a gas station."
Pilot:
Scientist: "Aw, come come now... here, come inside and we'll give you some hot chocolate."
I've seen a few posts pointing out they probably don't have avgas, and a few pointing out that he probably used moto-gas in his aircrat, but nobody seems to have mentioned that they simply might not have any gas to spare. what with the hideous costs associated with shipping anything down there, it wouldn't suprise me if they figure out their seasonal fuel consumption to the liter, and then put up stores accordingly. YES - i'm sure they have a reserve, and probably enough of a reserve to get this guy home...but I don't expect them to welch on their safety to bail this id-10-T out. Let him cool his heels (no pun intended) in the storage shed and pay for his own damn shipment of gas, then send him a bill for food and heating costs once he gets home =D
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
From the Web page Your Stay at McMurdo Station Antarctica
FUELS
Fuel conservation is of primary importance. Scarcity of this product and increased costs have a major impact on the operational program. Your compliance with published antarctic energy conservation measures is required. Keep room and building temperatures at a comfortable level (65 degrees F or lower) and turn off all unecessary lights.
EMERGENCIES
FIRE: The danger of fire is always present and always great. Be careful about smoking, and do not smoke in bed! Check ashtrays and waste baskets before leaving common-use areas for the night. Most buildings are equipped with automatic fire alarm systems. In the event of FIRE call 911, wait outside for the fire-fighting party to arrive, and direct them to the blaze. Call even if the alarm is sounding.
MEDICAL EMERGENCY: If someone is injured and requires immediate transportation to the dispensary, call the ambulance at extension 911. This is an emergency-only number. Please wait for the ambulance and direct it to the injured person.
FACILITIES PROBLEMS: If you discover heat off in a building, a leaky water faucet, or any maintainence problem that will result in damage to a building or might cause a safety hazard, call the ASA trouble desk at 2444/2555.
VEHICLE PROBLEMS: If your vehicle will not start, or you encounter a vehicle maintainence problem or an accident, call the Vehicle Maintainence Facility at 2500 or the Trouble Desk @2555.
His vehicle will not start, all he has to do is call the Vehicle Maintainence Facility at 2500 or the Trouble Desk @2555.
If he landed at a private US airstrip in an emergency situation and the owners refused to sell fuel for reasonable compensation that would probably be grounds for a lawsuit.
I'd like to see him land at Groom Lake. Maybe he could figure out how to webcast the flight live as it happened.
Think about what I said and what you just typed there.
I didn't say the UK had the most miles of highway per capita, I said it had the most miles of road per capita. The term "highway" clearly doesn't describe all roads, does it? Please don't interchange the two to twist what I said into something else entirely.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
Jon Johanson - what an asshole.
The cost of getting fuel to troupes during the invasion of Iraq was $90/galon
Or, at least, that's what Halliburton says it costs.
You must keep in mind that their statement of discouraging tourism has more ramifications than just keeping people away from the station. There are many considerations that you're apparently not making. Here's a short list of reasons I can come up with, and I'm not even trying:
1.) They have a specific amount of fuel at the station, for their own use and for reserves. If they're to sell him any fuel, it must come from their working stock, or their reserves. The working stock is there to run their own machinery (snowmobiles, their own aircraft, generators and such) and the reserves are their safety net in case something goes wrong, because they're a long way from help if something does go really badly for them. What makes you think they can spare 400 liters of fuel without endangering themselves whenever someone shows up like this?
2.) They're afraid that if they give him the fuel, he'll do something utterly stupid, like, say, trying to fly his craft out instead of leaving in a safer, more sensible manner. The fact he's there to begin with is a testament to his lack of foresight, and maybe they don't want the added burden of a possible rescue mission, or knowing they gave him the rope to hang himself with. They offered him a free ride on the next boat out of the area, after all, so it's not like they're leaving him out in the cold (so to speak).
3.) They're genuinely afraid that if they give him the fuel, they'll have to deal with this situation again, with the ramifications of (1) and (2) above, when the next daredevil decides to drop in. By making his exit expensive and unglorious, they can discourage others from trying the same.
4.) Replacing the volume of fuel that he wants will require them to fit the extra fuel into their next shipment(s), and so rather than selling him the fuel and going through the effort to replace it, why wouldn't they just let him arrange (and pay for) his own fuel shipment? This doesn't help with (2) above, but even so, it's not their problem to solve.
All in all, it seems very short sighted of you to tell them how to run their outpost when you seem not to understand the situation they'll be putting themselves in by helping him.
Virg
Towards the Singularity.
Australian TV reported that the folks at McMurdo wouldn't even recharge his cellphone. Now that's petty.
Regards.
Six boxes to use in the defense of liberty: letter, soap, ballot, witness, jury, ammo.
My name is Jon Johanson(Johnson)
I live in Wisconson
I work at the lumbermill there.
And the people I meet
as I walk down the street
say Hey, whats yer name?
(repeat)
---
eeww, I'll have a crab juice.
If he's lucky, he'll be able to take his toy plane with him.
I sure hope he's a friendly guy, a good story-teller, and that he's willing to lend a capable hand with whatever problems come up in his new community, cuz guess what? He just became one more mouth to feed in a family with limited supplies and real jobs to do in a place where only the brightest and best are invited.
All that aside. . . If played right, I'd love to be this guy! What an adventure! Too bad the media is spinning this in such a stupid way. All this sensationalism is foolish. Man, I really hope for his sake that he's not a dork! It could be a very positive experience if approached with the right attitude.
-FL
i was down at the south pole during the 96 - 97 antarctic summer. and watched 3 groups of adventurers be rebuffed by the station. i was so amazed. 1 man, borge ousland had stopped at the pole in route to becoming the 1st man to cross antartica unsupported. he drug a 375 lb sled some 2100 miles from coast to coast.
borge later showed back up at the pole with sir edumond hillary as part of the 50th anniversary of the first mechanized crossing of antartica.
it was so ironic, the station managers had no problem with borge being at the station with sir edmond.
thats politics for yah. the whole hands off, no help for tourists relates back to the argentine plane crash back in the mid to late 80's i believe when none the of research stations responed to the calls for help from the downed aircraft.
scientists and politicians not the most bravest bean in the can.
His idiocy does not mean its anybody else's problem.
I'm guessing those on the south pole have planned and rationed out their fuel, etc until they can be re-supplied - this idiot has no right to expect them to inconvenience themselves simply because he is incompetent.
Harsh, maybe, but thats life unfortunately.
smash.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
I give the guy some credit, he's pretty brave to fly there. Its kind of like how amatures try to send rockets into space, its a new frontier that the average person can't do. If US gives him fuel, who knows how many more planes will fly by and get stuck. That guy should have stocked lots of beer or something so he can trade.
Mark
Yes, this is a valid concern -- tourism in Antarctica. My wife and I have been saving up for quite a while for one of those Princess cruises down to the southernmost continent. We've gotta get away from this unbearable superzero heat and get down to a good "back to nature" climate in Penguinland. We heard there are some really good restaurants and casinos down there also.
Yes, I would be very afraid of tourists coming around and ruining the researchers' private paradise.
RP
If the guy is expected to pay for the cost of shipping the plane out (what the hell? Are we the Chinese? "NO! You cannot fly it out, it is an insult."), let him pay for the cost of shipping the fuel and a box of Krispie Kremes instead, and let him get the hell out of there.
If the guy is saying, 'hey gimme some gas but I can't pay sorry', then that's a different matter.
Lastly, WTF do the bases do if their fuel shipment is late OR DOESN'T COME? What the hell is their 'contingency plan'? I don't expect them to have tons of extras or surplus blow up dolls, but it seems to me that having someone 'drop by' would be in the 'plan'.
Hell, I keep an extra beer in the fridge for just that occasion, and I'm not even a world superpower.
Well, that's just bloody brilliant. Why don't you fork out the cash and go? Jolly good sentimental of you... have the funds available? Odds to chance you don't, and those that do won't be eager to send/spend it on someone as ill-prepared as him.
airplanes don't run on gasoline - they have no aviation fuel to sell or give this idiot
just stay away from the mountains!
Monetary Costs:
Other Costs:
They have fed him and offered to send him home. Apparently they are not getting a lot of credit for that.
Good for them. Why, you sell this wacky Australian some fuel and twenty or thirty years down the road some other "tourist" is likely to do the same thing. How awful. Anartica is a pricate club for the scientifically privledged with political clout and it should stay that way.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Instead of flying him out, fly more supplies in. His dime.
Cheaper than shipping his plane out (or is it?!?), and doesn't make two countries look the part of a-holes.
I love how us /.ers can go back and forth on these monday morning quarterback isses until the heat death of the universe.
I changed my mind. They should shoot him, then eat him.
...this guy is just looking for the headlines. Check some of the documentaries on these guys....they fly across borders and land on military bases all the time, claiming fuel issues, etc. They use existing facilities as fuel dumps, and hop from point-to-point, depending on the kindness of strangers.
I own and fly a small airplane (Piper Warrior) two of my friends own RVs... one is an RV-4 and the other is an RV-6. I assisted with a fair amount of the construction of the RV-6, and have personally flown both RVs quite a bit. Your comments about homebuilt aircraft prove that you do not know jack squat about the aircraft. The RVs are better designed, higher performance, stronger and more capable airplanes than my factory-built Piper. They can be customized to the Nth degree for specialized missions like arctic globetrotting. I've even seen one with full de-icing systems installed. If you claim to love fixing and flying aircraft, but would not ride in one you built, then you ought to stay the hell away from airplanes, because any A&P who is that unsure of his skills should not work on one. Everyone I've ever met who embarks upon, and completes the construction of an airplane by themselves, has had "the right stuff". You have to have it to be able to finish one because it takes a special, rare commitment to accomplish such a monumental feat.
Has anyone stopped to think how valuable that fuel is to the people at the base? They are living in Antarctica, their lives depend on that fuel. The amount of food he consumes is probably negligable, but to give up that much fuel could potentially be a life or death decision. My house can be heated for an entire winter (in Ohio) by 60-70 gallons of fuel oil, what if the next shipment of fuel was delayed? Then that 100 or so gallons becomes a very big deal for those still at the base. If the plane came from a kit, dis-assemble it and ship it back FedEx ;)
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
That's it. I have nothing more to say.
Come on, mod me way up, baby! You know calling this gimboid git what he is is about as insightful as you can get!
If a pion (n-) collides with a proton in the woods & noone is there to hear it, does lamdba decay into the source pa
Quoth the poster: Now both the Americans and the New Zealanders there are refusing to sell him fuel.
Qouth the article: But both the Americans and a nearby New Zealand base refuse to give him the fuel
The article has no indication that an offer to buy fuel made made by the pilot, nor any statements that the US or New Zealand have refused to sell him fuel. This is simply a "govmint"-bash troll on the parts of mirio and the--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Australian Jon Johanson is currently stranded at Clarke Station at L1. He was attempting a dark-side flyaround when he encountered LEO debris that caused him to burn his one-gee landing fuel and divert to Clarke. Now both the North Americans and the Chinese there are refusing to sell him fuel.
Oh, cruel Clarke Base! Why don't you just adjust your energy budgets until the next supply ship and use his *credits* to fuel your positioning thrusters?!
for some reason, he can communicate out but hasn't ordered in fuel or transport with "his dime". This Monday morning quarterbacking is fun of course.
Where I'm from there are no gas stations, nor hotels for within a 30 minute drive across open country. At this time of year it would be murder or at best man slaughter not to help some idiot who drove out here in -20, with not enough gas for a return trip. The nearest farm house can be a 30 minute walk in places, off the highway.
This situation is not much different. You can call anyone stranded an "idiot", for poor planning, but if you refuse to help them you are contributing to the idiot population.
The only thing that separates us from the animals is our defiance of the "survival of the fitest" theory. It is called compassion. A dead person can't pass compassion on to others.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
From Dune, the repayment of emergency supplies (water) was at 10 times. So for his 400 litres, he should have to pay to fly in 4000. Which I'm sure will help the base, which may take other supplies in exchange, but the principle is the same.
So this is how you get away from the DMCA...
While you are techincally and gramatically correct, don't feel so proud of your mastery of the English Language: You and the parent poster are merely engaging in wordsmithing and this seems to be missing the point.
The pilot shouldn't have been so careless with his fuel estimates for contingencies. He's getting off light: he could have been dead.
.
uR iGn0ranc3, Their Power
Unlike most everyone else here, I know a little about this. I was involved with the United States Antarctic Program (USAP) for about 10 years and I've been to the South Pole 4 times.
The policy of the USAP is not to support private travel in the Antarctic. Period. They will perform SAR activities and help you return to your place of origin. This is the policy. It was set by the National Science Foundation in Washington DC (more or less, the USAP offices are in Ballston now).
As far as this guy goes, he's not being treated any differently than the Gore-tex Trans-Antarctic expedition was, or the outfits running adventure travel packages to the South Pole are. The USAP will only intervene to prevent loss of life. If you don't like it write your congressman.
This guy claims to know what he's doing but that doesn't appear to be the case to me. There is a concept in flying called the Point of Safe Return (PSR). Your PSR is determined by your actual range which depends on your fuel load and effective groundspeed. It appears to me that either this guy didn't know what his PSR was or chose to ignore it (remember his goal was not McMurdo, South Pole or even Palmer Station, but Puntas Arenas, Chile). As far as the conditions go, that part of the world is known for bad weather (understatement). Its not uncommon for the USAP LC-130s to reach their PSR and have to turn back. Even given WX updates from McMurdo and Christchurch, things can get dicey. I was on a return flight from MCM to CHC one time when we had to land in Invercargill due to severe unpredicted headwinds.
Its hard to say what the actual fuel situation is at MCM. Most equipment there runs on DFA or JP4. There is some MoGas for pickup trucks and snowmobiles. So there is a multi-year supply of those fuels on hand. AvGas, on the other hand is only used to support light plane ops and the supply of that would be based on year to year science program requirements.
The adventure travel outfits seem to be able to support light plane ops in antarctica without depending the USAP to bail them out so I don't see any reason why this guy couldn't have done the same. It sounds to me like he's been offered a fair deal: a ride home on the next return flight and a ride for his plane when the re-supply ship sails for NZ.
> So they're basicly impounding his $20k-$30K aircraft.
Nope, not even close. If he can get fuel shipped in, he'll be free to fly it out, and they're willing to ship the craft out on the next ship, they're just not willing to do it at their own expense. Besides, it's not their fault he's a bad planner, and there's no reason they should go out of their way (any more than they already have) to bail him out of his own mistake.
Virg
Half of his story was about all the contingency planning you need to do for something like this. What happens if there's a mechanical failure? He had several ways of navigating -- it isn't that easy at the poles to know which way's home. All his route legs had alternatives, and he knew exactly where he'd go in this and that situation.
Doesn't seem like the South Pole has as much leeway, okay, but it's the responsibility of our would-be tourist to figure out his options beforehand. I'm with the people on the ground there; their role isn't to be someone's backup, and their treatment of the guy seems more than fair.
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
> Same with the coast guard. They pick up the sailors. Towing the boat back to harbor is rarely done by the rescuers.
Actually, the U.S. Coast Guard will quite often tow a disabled but floating boat back to shore (it can turn into a navigation hazard for commercial shipping otherwise), but they'll send you a bill for the towing charge.
Virg
To take a truck of fuel to some remotes places in Brazil, you have to spend two trucks of fuel. I'd like to know how much you'd need to bring it to Antartica.
Well, if on the flight home, his co-pilot starts wainling Tekeli-li!! Tekeli-li!!, I'd say he's pretty much screwed.
Xenon, where's my money? -Borno
> This situation is not much different. You can call anyone stranded an "idiot", for poor planning, but if you refuse to help them you are contributing to the idiot population.
This is that place where your argument breaks down. They are helping him. They gave him food, drink and a place to stay out of the cold, for free. They offered him a free ride out on the next flight. They even offered to send his plane home with him if he's willing to pay for the cost to do so. That's a damn big bit of help, by my measure, for a guy who didn't even bother to call ahead and let McMurdo know he might be showing up if things went sour on him. The fact that they won't sell him AvGas that they might not be able to spare (or that they're unwilling to risk their safety reserves to let him fly out on his own as opposed to riding out on the next supply run) does not translate to their not helping him at all. Not by a long shot.
Virg
Again it's not 400 gallons, it's 400 liters.
MORTAR COMBAT!
> Instead of shipping his plane out, ship fuel in. His dime.
> Instead of flying him out, fly more supplies in. His dime.
> Cheaper than shipping his plane out (or is it?!?), and doesn't make two countries
> look the part of a-holes.
Nope, these options are not cheaper than shipping his stuff out. See, when planes and ships take stuff to Antarctica, they go back empty, since not much gets shipped out of Antartica. So, taking his plane out is just a matter of disassembling it, crating it and loading it, but bringing extra fuel and supplies in means another flight in, most likely.
Virg
My mother lives & works at McMurdo station every winter (its summer there currently). She's scheduled to return in late January.
Basically with antarctica, you can forget any experience you have any where else.. the situation is completely different, there are no commercial flights, boats, etc.
If you want to get there, you're chartering, and not too many charters are willing to land on a sheet of ice they call a runway.
down there, everything they need is brought in by charter, and its planned very far in advance.. they dont operate gas stations for random passersby.
It's obvious those wacky New Zealanders and American meanies are in cahoots with the Great Old Ones. Well, not really in cahoots more like slavish minions theirof. Our intrepid Australian adventurer Jon Johanson is trying to expose this and they are holding him captive for he has the evidence on his plane to show how the Great Old Ones are trying to takeover the Earth. Well, not really takeover more like lay utter waste to the Earth.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
Flying a light plane across Antarctica is pretty stupid to begin with. Katabatic winds, can you say that? I thought you could!
OK, suppose they give him gas. Suppose he gets the gas, gets up in the air, and runs out of gas again, far from any "Antarctic FBO"? Now what? And is it even ethical to give him the gas if with probability greater than zero and not far from one he is going to use this gas to go get himself killed.
The equivalent situation is a VFR-rated pilot gets into trouble in the clouds, contacts Chicago Center, gets "talked down" to the nearest airport, and then wants to turn around and go back into the soup again because he got diverted from his intended destination.
I don't think an FBO is required to not sell such a guy gas in this situation, but I wouldn't be surprised if an FBO would work hard on talking this hypothetical guy out of launching. McMurdo is not an FBO, so I think they are under more stringent ethical restrictions about selling someone gas to go up and kill himself.
That they are housing, feeding the guy, and offering to ship him home and his plane home in a crate, I say the McMurdo guys are as good a bunch of Samaritans as it gets, especially since they are keeping the guy from getting killed.
The saying goes: There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old and bold pilots.
If you are using more fuel than you anticipate, you turn around. This guy knew where he was - it is extremely unlikely that he just happened to stumble McMurdo in the middle of Antarctica.
For comparison, I know a mate of mine who came across bad weather and was forced to land on a military base. He was required to leave his plane there, come back a week later with heaps of paper-work completed and his own fuel to fly out.
I think the USA and New Zealand bases are being more than hospitable in offering him food and shelter as well as transport for him and his aircraft.
In other words, the guy is a dick-head.
|>>?
Judge my Photography
I did. Very nice stuff. I particularly like the two girls playing in the field before the Church in the D100 shots.
fs
> The article said that they would be shipping him out on a flight, so if a flight can get in, bringing a few jerricans would be a good idea and charging him for support costs is more than fair.
More than fair? You're right, it would be. Much more. The planes that fly into McMurdo go in fully loaded. They fly out nearly empty. Taking him out is just a matter of his getting on the plane. Taking his plane out in crates is just the extra effort to load it on the nearly-empty plane. Taking in "a few jerricans" (which is in fact two 55-gallon drums) means that the fully loaded plane going in needs to take on an extra quarter ton or so, at the expense of the other supplies that would have fit in that weight limit. In the extreme, it might even mean another flight needs to go in. So, it would indeed be far more than fair.
Virg
> What if, instead of fuel being denied, it was in fact landing space being denied.
This isn't witty at all, because he's not being denied anything necessary to his survival. He's not being denied food, drink, or shelter, and he's not being denied a way to leave. He's just not happy that the way out they offered is going to cost him a lot of money, and a lot of pride.
Virg
Well, at the end of the article it says he's been around the world 3 times and the north pole in that same aircraft. I'd say he's a trained responsible pilot.
What you've never run out of gas before? right.
Earth to saskboy, THEY ARE HELPING HIM. Food and shelter and a ride home is more help than any resonable person would expect to get. So they won't gas up his fucking plane? Too fucking bad. Do you want them to refinance his mortgage and repaint his house too? Will that satisfy their requirement to help his personal belongings? Maybe they are doing him a favor: this way they won't have to rescue his ass when he crash lands on the ice 5 minutes after takeoff.
Sometimes it's not worth risking your life for something like fixing a flat tire.
I would of let the car run, providing me with heat and shelter, and either sat in it waiting for help (like a ride, fetch the car later) - or possibly tried to change the tire, but taking a break in the car every few minutes. Unless you were stupid enough to be driving around on empty, your car should of been able to idle for hours with no problems.
My God! This man caused SARs in Antarctica!? Keep him quarantined and away from markets! Does WHO know about this problem?
That's what was going on when this bozo landed.
nt
First it was DeCSS... okay he is elite, it was a big feat..
Then iTunes more recently and I'm like "huh when where this guy stop! he is amazing!"
Now he is flying aroun the world???
like wtf elite hax0rs only fly in The Matrix!!!
OMGZ we are in teh matrix! lololol!!!!!oneadas
"TRINITY I NEED SOME HEEEEELP" won't work down there biznitch!!!!
I live in Ohio too. Had to walk to class from off-campus once at 6am when the temperature was -25 degrees F. OSU cancelled classes the NEXT day, when the temperature was only -20. Which is all to say, I understand entirely the irony of almost getting frostbite walking down a city street. (my ears were a bit hot and swollen but otherwise I was just fine, I jogged it with my hands over my ears to keep warm)
So, anyway, I'm curious how you got hypothermia. Was there something in the terrain that made changing the tire particularly difficult, or did you have a fuel situation that prevented you from leaving the engine running? Were you not dressed warmly? Just trying to understand, since it seems like every step in the process of changing the tire can be divided down into 2 minute bundles of work, with time inside the car to warm up.
Now before I get modded down, I be to remind whoever might read this that what I am saying is FACT. - bogaboga
Actually, the bases are there to safeguard thousands of crashed alien starships, frozen in the ice with their pilots.
And you thought the USA had an illegal alien problem...
You're being taxed to subsidize mass transit. higher fuel costs make mass transit more attractive, and more people using mass transit makes mass transit affordable.
Amen,
I symbolically mod you up 2 points.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
as a previous poster reminded me there is no need for AvGas at either MCM or Scott Base. Small plane ops are conducted with the DeHavilland Twin Otter aircraft which is turboprop powered and uses JP, not AvGas.
They almost certainly have AvTur (JP4) turbine fuel, aka jet fuel for aircraft (fixed and rotary wing). But this is kerosene totally unusable in spark-ignition engines but usable in diesel engines.
If they don't have the fuel, what can they do?
... that was ranked 'informative' when it was purely trying to be funny. Perhaps we need a /. tutorial on the meaning of words...
The poor sod took off from New Zealand, and that's the one place not shown on their map. Split right down the middle of the Pacific, and no New Zealand. Good work!
Typically, on a high risk flight there is a "point of no return". I have no idea whether this was in his contingency plan, but he sure seemed to have passed it.
In other words, you need a plan of how much resources you have at what stage of your journey. At each milestone, he should have had a number for fuel that meant he had 150% times the amount he needed to complete the journey or turn around.
He seemingly ignored the signals (strong headwinds) to turn around and got himself stuck.
Another famous case is that of British explorer Shackleton, http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/shackleton/. He was breaking ice on the way into Antarctica late in the season. He didn't consider how he might get himself out or turned around. "Failure is not an option". It may not be an option, but it's absolutely a possiblity. His bull-headedness got his crew stuck and some killed.
When the odds are against you, and things aren't going right giving up, and trying again under more favorable conditions is absoluetly an option.
-------- -------- Support Wesley Clark for president!!!
...why didn't he just carry a big tank of extra fuel? A few oil-barrels full should do the trick, right?
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
Charter a flight with your own money to ship him some fuel, bro. Oh, it would be too expensive? Yeah, that's what I thought. You can talk shit, but I'm sure you can't back it up.
- Temperature: chuffing cold
- Winds from the north force "n"
Aussie Pilot: "So the winds coming from the north, right? Great, I'm flying south, so I'll have a tailwind. Chuck out the spare fuel, I'll take some extra beers instead..."Think about it...
I'm not sure if you missed my (and their) point, or if I missed yours, but they're not leaving him out in the cold and they're certainly not out to murder him, and available information makes that clear. They're looking after him, feeding him and giving him somewhere to live. They've even offerred him a flight back to NZ, and are offering to ship his plane back in the future.
What they're not doing is selling him fuel. And why should they? It's theirs, it's there for other purposes, and he doesn't need it for survival. They obviously don't want to set a precedent that encourages people to randomly turn up and expect a fuel pump on demand.
If he wanted special treatment then he should have arranged it in advance. Good for them.
I couldn't find anything out about the UK but this is what I found out about the US and Alaska specificaly is the following.
Alaska has "23 miles of road per 1,000 population. This is 50% more than the US average of 15 miles of road per 1,000 population"(DoT Alaska)
What is the definition of "road"? I don't think of city streets as "roads". If you are merely measuring miles of "pavement" of any kind, then the claim makes sense, but if you are only including "roads", then low population density countries would come up higher.
(And I thought the UK was metric. Why do you guys still refer to distances in miles?)
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Bugger McMurdo, we've got our own bases mate!
Being an explorer. An inventive Aussie, he could slide the bird to one of the other gazillion Aussie bases on Antarctica for refuelling, a hit of cricket, a cold beer and a few laughs before heading home to the misses for Christmas. Or he could wait for the drop from the RAAF boys, but he'd have to put up with those dull Americans.
Or perhaps the social rejects that habitat McMurdo, could show some hospitality and give him oily rag. Aussie Jon, with his scandanavian surname, might then just have enough fly to Casey, where I'm sure he can refuel before heading home to a ticket tape parade.
Who says that Antartica is theirs anyways?
Nobody says Antarctica is theirs.
All they're saying is that the gas is theirs, which it is. And they've got a strictly limited amount which has been shipped in at great expense for specific research purposes. A lot of people and numerous research programs depend on that gas. It has not been shipped there for the convenience of some clown who decides to blow in when his bad planning gets him in a pickle.
Man, fuck them. I get the feeling everyone down there walks around feeling like "I am a great adventurer, I live for x amount of time on the South Pole!". If it wasn't for adventurers like this guy in his homebuilt, these fuckers wouldn't even be down there. Just give him the fucking fuel and let him be on his way. Compared to the millions spent every year by the Coast Guard and police saving idiots in their sailboats and falling down wells this is nothing. So what if a few planes end up down there every year? SO FUCKING WHAT - just help a brother out. FUCK YOU ALL DOWN THERE AT THE POLE FUCK YOU
Elliott Smith Tribute CD available now on Double D Records! Visit www.doubledrecords.com to order.
He noticed the headwind right at the start of his trip. Now, he could have gone and taken the most direct route to his destination and been fine, but he wanted to fly exactly over the South Pole. This detour is what made him short of fuel.
(As reported on NZ radio)
In Antarctica, fuel = life. Without fuel, you die.
For those who don't understand, the Antarctic research stations aren't exactly your local campsite where you've got free electricity and water hookups. Everything must be generated locally, and just to keep things heated so that machinery and people don't freeze is priority #1. There are 3 levels of backup generators to make sure that power *never* *ever* goes out.
To get fuel to Antarctica is more expensive than just about any where else in the world, and even if the bases down there were to sell it to him at a profit, it would represent a real loss in energy (though perhaps insignificant) that would have to be replaced somehow.
I agree with their policy. This is the real unexplored territory of the Earth here -- rescuing someone who had an accident is one thing, but picking up after their lack of planning puts other people's lives in danger.
For a more in-depth and humorous view of the boondoggles of McMurdo, have a look at...
http://www.bigdeadplace.com/
If there was a plane comming in to fly him out, why didn't they bring 400 liters of the correct fule with them, and then charge him some ridiculess fee for it, say 1/2 the cost to ship his plane home.
solves poth probs, gets him out of there and encorages ppl to think of planning ahead.
My family has a (loose) connection with his family and the guy is actually a total prat as most of the posters here seem to be working out....
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes.
While the situation is different, it may pay to remember Steve Fossett, an American who in 1998 crashed his hot air balloon off the cost of Australia after also attempt to fly around the world.
The rescue bill, which came to hundreds of thousands of dollars was footed by the Australian taxpayer.
It's not the first time we've helped out stricken adventurer's either.
I'm curious as to why the US or NZ bases just don't move him to an Australian base at Antartica and let him sort it out from there.
"Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge, and where is the knowledge we have lost in information?"-T.S.Eliot
No, NOT the same person who requires rescuing. My understanding (based on actual research and not a knee jerk reaction), he is a careful pilot who has TWO solo round the world trips under his belt, and has NEVER had to be "rescued" before.
This trip was planned months in advance. AFAIK, he didn't need permission, nor to seek it. Yes, the trip is by nature a marginal one, especially for a single engined RV-4, but it is not like he is a 150hr PPL in a 152 who did it on a whim.
The professional weather reports he had (sourced FROM McMurdo, no doubt) said that the trip was within limits. The forecasts were wrong. He acted appropriately when he was caught out by winds that were FAR IN EXCESS of the forecasts.
He said himself that if he had known the forecast was wrong, he would not have taken off. A pilot with two round the world trips under his belt is NOT going to take off without sufficient fuel.
It staggers me that in the very month that celebrates one hundred years of heavier than air flight, it has fallen to an Australian pilot to represent the very traditions of achievement and excellence that New Zealanders hold proud and true, and it is New Zealand, a country with a fine and honourable aviation heritage, that is denying a simple and reasonable request from this remarkable man.
It would seem that our passion for courage, discovery and achievement is only exceeded by our passion for belligerence and churlish bureaucratic pique.
He's probably basking in the midnight sun while waiting for the next move... all in all better than the alternative
The plane to take him out leaves today, so was probably already at or already on it's wau to McMurdo when he crash landed. Also, it seems that he may have submitted a false or inaccurate flight plan. Assuming that this is correct, then the people at McMurdo were not expecting him.
"The big question in our lives is how to be at the same time a hedonist and in a hurry" - Alain Ducasse (?)
Well thats the last time any one bails steve fosset out.
Often the difference between a professional extreme athlete and an amateur extreme athlete, in the eyes of SAR people, is whether they succeed or not.
Antarctica -- one of the few places left where money doesn't talk. :)
they do not have spare fuel.
So the refueling ship comes a F^$*ing day early this year. So what?
Does that boy not know that we do not accept Aussie dollars. Anyways we got us a free aeroplane and a pilot to eat a la Alive if we runs out of grub. The plane is probably on ebay by now.
As a fellow Buckeye, I agree that relying on the kindness of strangers is a foolish idea.
I do, however, tend to be the one that stops to help out. For personal reasons. I trust my instincts though, I don't stop if something *feels* wrong, or if I have another passenger in the car. I'm perfectly willing to put my life on the line for what I think is the right thing to do, foolish as my mother might think it is, but not someone elses.
BTW. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the WINDCHILL was -15f, not the air temp, and there was freezing rain.
That is possible. What you stated, unless there have been atmosperic phenomina in Ohio I have never heard of, is not.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order- Ed Howdershelt Via Tass
Given cost of transportation and the time of year $100.00 /Gal is closer to the real cost
Diplomacy is the art of saying "Nice doggie" until you can find a rock. Will Rogers
rofl thats exactly what i thought...
this bowls for you!
Why did you say that to me?
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Nevermind
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
we Austalian have on many occasions spent a lot of time and effort to recover the citzens fron other countries when because of their own stupidity they have ecided to go ocean racing in yachts in the deep southern ocean and got in trouble in the far South it is piss poor that the US and NZ wont come to the party and help this guy. As for the pathetic excuses of discouraging tourism we all know that simply will not work.
Perhaps we should let the next seppos and kiwis drown.
Seppo: Rhyming slang, Yank-Septic tank......seppo
Regards
DAv
Because you left out Good 'ole tim mcveigh. Should we deport all redneck republicans along with the mexicans? Actualy, that would be a pretty good tradeoff.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
He initially said he had 35 hours of fuel which was clarified later as 32 hours of fuel for a 36 hour flight over the pole.
35 hours would have been just enough for a flight over the tip of Antarctica to Argentina.
He never had enough fuel to reach his destination.
He contacted McMurdo saying he had a fuel problem but continued on to the pole before returning to the station.
Also the solo flight over the pole had already been done in the 1960s.
Fran
:):):)
1st 1st Poster of the new Millennium!
and I live in fucking Ohio, the dullest place on earth
Well then, on behalf of the good people of Ohio, I am hereby empowered to award you a free trip by kit airplane to Antartica.
Fact is, there are a lot of countries with a lot lower population-density than the UK. It is logical that when there's a lot of area, and few people, then there will also be a lot of road compared to few people.
I don't have numbers for "road" in the UK, nor in for example Norway, Sweden, Iceland or Finland, but I find it quite unlikely that the UK has such a *vastly* higher road-to-highway ratio than all of those others.
You migth have ben led to believe otherwise, but the UK is a *small* country (less than 225000 km^2), with a LOT of people (over 60 million). This is not a recipe for "world record" in road/capita. For comparison, Norway has 307000 km^2, that is *more* land-area than the UK, with a population of 4.5 million, 13 times lower density *will* lead to more roads/capita. (AND more highways/capita)
Look, if you've got actual numbers that say otherwise, please post them. If you're just rambling and annoyed that you're wrong, even about such a miniscule detail, get over it.
I don't know why the Kiwis wont sell fuel, but for the Americans it is pretty clear:
2 00 3/10/20/daily22.html
They can sell their fuel with much better margins in Iraq.
http://houston.bizjournals.com/houston/stories/
and off course they are denying it...
Firstly, you started your previous reply with the one word statement "Bull", and you wonder why I got defensive?
Secondly, population density, land mass, etc are only part of the equation. Yes, a country with a low population density will tend to have a high miles of road per capita figure as will one with a large land area but other factors will play a part.
For example, cities within the UK tend to have far more miles of road within a given area than their counterparts on the continent, in the US and elsewhere. And whilst the highways figure that you quote may count just the UK's motorways, the UK's road network is criss-crossed with A roads and B roads that far outnumber those designated as motorways. If you want to see what I mean have a look at multimap.com/ and zoom in a few levels.
And, by the way, I do find it funny that you manage to start and end your posts with insults then accuse me of "just rambling" and "being annoyed".
As I pointed out elsewhere, the evidence that the UK has more miles of road per capita than anywhere else can be found in a Department of Transport consultation paper. Unfortunately, they've moved things around on their website so the link that I did have to the relevant paper no longer works but feel free to search their site if you feel the need to argue over a "miniscule detail" any further.
"Accept that some days you are the pigeon, and some days you are the statue." - David Brent, Wernham Hogg
It is summer in Antarctica, the best time of year to be stuck there. OK it might not be as warm as the Seychelles but it is better than mid winter.
ook ook
The UK *does* have a lot of road, afterall, still comparing to Norway, you've got a smaller area, and, inspite of this you have got 4 times as much highway. There *are* tons of roads in the UK. It's only that there's also tons of people. 4 times the roads. 15 times the people.
See this Toronto Star article for the conclusion to this story:
$#!^ happens, but why does it always have to happen to me???
I live in fucking Ohio, the dullest place on earth
... I live in Minneapolis, which is not exactly Excitementville USA ... but man, some of the suburbs just north of town are dull beyond belief.
I dunno
-kgj
-kgj
Everyone is focused on the notion that McMurdo is trying to teach this guy a lesson. What about the idea of keeping the guy from taking another shot at getting himself killed? The guy has already crossed oceans and circled the globe. Well, some 70 years ago there was this hot babe with this rich hubby who was crossing oceans and circling the globe who got herself killed doing something dumb, reserve fuel and navigation-wise. Someone should have refused to sell her fuel.
> Unless selling him fuel is illegal or at all damaging to their operation, then their action is just punitive and not compassionate.
Sorry, but you're still leaving out "not feasible". The point of compassion is made irrelevant by the fact that they don't have fuel rated for his aircraft in the first place, and were relatively sure that the American base nearby didn't have it, either.
So much for the Golden Rule, at least in this case.
Virg
> I was obviously speaking from the mistaken knowledge that they had the right kind of fuel he needed to get himself out of the jam.
Agreed, but even if they did, I'm not sure that would exempt "not feasible". They have a certain amount of the fuels that they do have for their own use, and for reserves in case of emergency. It's not a matter of being punitive that they want to preserve their reserve in case something goes wrong and they need it to survive until the next shipment (or rescue, if the problem is severe enough). Selling him a large portion of that reserve can easily leave them in a situation where their own contingency plan isn't sufficient, and so giving up their own contingency plan so they can become his contingency plan is unreasonable.
Virg
> Either it is survival of the fitest by denying the weak resources, or you give the weak some resources so that they will later be able to bail you out when you are weak...
That philosophy doesn't realistically apply to this situation. In this situation (and of course, assuming they had the right fuel), they're not denying him the necessities of life at all. They're feeding him and letting him stay there free of charge, and they offered him free transport for himself and transport for his plane if he's willing to pay for the carriage charges. If they give him fuel they have in reserve, they endanger themselves and their own operations for his convenience, not survival, since without the fuel, he can still get home safely, just not the way he himself wants to do it. So in real terms, they shouldn't be asked to take on a very real risk just so he can do the trip his way. He had the chance to do it his way, and he failed, and so now he has to take the undignified way home so as not to unnecessarily endanger the McMurdo crew.
Virg
According the EAA, Jon made it out on Monday.
Johanson Heads for Home December 15, 2003 - Australian Earthrounder Jon Johanson (EAA 265714), who had been stranded at the McMurdo/Scott Base in Antarctica since December 8, finally made it back to Invercargill, New Zealand, on Sunday, December 15, after receiving about 100 gallons of fuel from fellow EAAer Polly Vacher (EAA 727449). Vacher, who had the fuel stocked at McMurdo/Scott for her own world endeavor, no longer needed the fuel after canceling her trip midstream for lack of fuel elsewhere. In return for the fuel, Johanson will aid Vacher in her cause, Wheelies on Wings, the Australian equivalent to Flying Scholarships for the Disabled. According to ABC News Online, Johanson was expected to continue the journey to his hometown of Adelaide on Monday (Tuesday AEDT) after a good night's rest.