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US to Pay to go to ISS
forgotten_my_nick writes "According to BBC News, Russia has announced that it will no longer ferry US astronauts to space for free (It has been doing so for two years). From 2006 the US will be expected to pay."
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Isn't it a shame how the US space angency has gone down the hill so swiftly?
In soviet russia, astronauts ferry you
That's sort of funny. I realize that we really shouldn't be bumming off of the Russians to get to the ISS, but at the same time, we do sort of uh, foot the bill for most of the station already. Plus, it isn't like the Russian rocket's weren't already going to ISS (as far as I know.)
Will this count as commercial space flight?
More power to ya. Under the current system, it's a good idea. However, I'd prefer a system where all the nations would work together to further mankind, rather than profit from it.
Wheel in the sky keeps on turnin'.
Russia has also announced that it expects the US to hold up to its end of the bargain and commit to finishing its sections of the International Space Station.
Oh wait, that's right, the US is building almost the entire thing...
No more freeloading.
Did they already repay us for the huge amount of money we spent to pay for their parts of the station? IIRC, they claimed a few times they couldn't finish their pieces because of lack of funding, so we footed the bill...
I had a sucky sig.
Ideally each country was to chip in for the ISS. The US has already done more than its share IIRC.
Table-ized A.I.
I wouldn't be suprised if this is reteliation for the USA's interference in Ukrainian politics on Russia's back yard. It has appeared to many that the opposition has links to the US government and may have been heavily funded by the USA to despose the current government for a pro-USA neo-liberalist government.
The irony is that Russia is almost in a better position to pay for sending people into space right now. They may not have much money, but they're not at the serious risk of going bankrupt within that next decade that the USA is.
Let's be fair and charge them rent in form of flights to the US, er, "International" Space station.
According to the article at first the US will pay in work already done on the ISS that the Russians didn't do.
The Russian space program would not exist if it was not for the USA funding it after the breakup of the Soviet Union.
Now if the US can get ONE space program working. This isn't too much to ask, is it?
I wonder if the next generation of the space program will look like commercial sector endorsements. It at least seams like thats where the technology is, or would this be setting up annother regulated industry that will fail as soos as it gets too expensive (like the airlines).
Diareah of words, constipation of thought.....
--Kei
In the beginning, the ISS was supposed to be a great international effort to promote science in orbit, among other things.
We all know the 'great' and 'international' part got scrapped (well, not entirely, but still)... what about the science? With a crew of 2 members and troubles with reapprovisionment, is there any (real) science getting done on the ISS? Or is it only kept up because we already invested too much in it?
Eureka Science News - automatically updated
Maybe this will finally get NASA to relaunch the shuttle, or a replacement shuttle. Cape Canaveral has been pretty much dead for the past two years. Or they could rent out spaceship 1.
As a US citizen, I'm curious if this is fallout from our wonderful public relations. Half the known world is pissed off at us, and it wouldn't surprise me if this isn't much more than Russia saying "You want to bum a ride? How much ya got for gas money? The price of rocket fuel isn't going down, ya know."
Hint to the current and future US Presidents: you may be the elected leader of a technological powerhouse, but you can't go it alone.
(it'll also pay for them to keep an eye out on Japan's technology, that the EU is becoming a collected economic force to bruise egos, and China's locomative-esque economy with about a third of the world's population, too, but who knows if they pay any attention)
Now they want to charge for something that should be bridging for international good will.
It appears to be a case of charge for it, or do not do it at all. The Russian Space Agency is facing financial difficulties and needs all the extra funds it can get.
Chris
aterr - an open source threaded discussion board.
by the time they would start "charging us" we'll have the STS back on line
this is just political puffery, meant for Russian domestic consumption
Personally, I am not surprised by this revelation. I doubt that they would have done this if the shuttle fleet wasn't grounded. Right now, they see themselves as the only current way to get our astronauts into space, so they're going to take advantage of that. Besides, $20 million to the Russian space agency is a fraction of the cost of somehow getting a new shuttle out (if that's even possible anymore). I'm somewhat surprised that this wasnt thought of earlier.
They pretty much have us by the jubbles and they know it. You vant an astronaut in space, comrade? Ve're your only real solution right now. Ve're going to take advantage of that. Can't say that I blame them. Ah, the capitalist spirit hits the Russian space program!
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
Russia, the west isn't your enemy.
The conspiracy theorists have always thought that the collapse of the Soviet Union was a sham to get the west (Regan, Thatcher, JPII, et. al) off their backs and cut their economic losses. The recent business with Yukos makes it seem more likely. After all, a KGB man is running the country.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Congressional rules prevent the US from paying for the flights. I guess we'll have to charge the Ruskies for flights on our shuttles.
They lessened democracy right after the terrorist attack of their school.
The US lessened democracy right after 9/11 - VISITUS + PATRIOT Act anyone?
They regarded the Ukraine as problematic, and instead went to have military operations with China.
The US regarded Iraq as problematic and went into military operations with total disregard to international conventions and treatires.
Russia, the west isn't your enemy.
USA - The world is NOT your enemy!
I hope russian space program will survive till then to offer services.
-a
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm sure most the money will go to finance their space program, which is keeping the ISS alive while the shuttles are stranded. Given this fact, it seems only fair that NASA shares part of their budget... just my 2 cents...
The Associated Press
WASHINGTON -- NASA takes a major step this week toward returning astronauts to space.
Engineers will ship an improved rocket fuel tank that has been refitted to avoid the falling debris that caused the destruction of Columbia and the deaths of seven astronauts on Feb. 1, 2003.
National Aeronautics and Space Administration officials said the redesigned fuel tank, which supplies propellant for the launch of the space shuttle, will start a barge trip Friday from a Mississippi assembly plant to the launch site in Florida.
Improvement made on the fuel tank "gives us confidence that problems like what happened on Columbia will not happen again," said Sandy Coleman, NASA's external tank project manager. "This is the safest, most reliable tank NASA has ever produced."
The changes in the external tank will add less than 150 pounds in weight. The total cost of the new tank, including tests and redesign, is still being calculated, but it will be more than the $40 million cost of the old-style tank, Coleman said.
NASA plans a May or June launch of shuttle Discovery. The shuttle fleet has been grounded since the Columbia accident as NASA scrambled to make changes in hardware, procedures and personnel to comply with recommendations from the Columbia Accident Investigation Board.
Fixing the external tank was a key part of NASA's recovery, officials said. The tank holds the liquid hydrogen and oxygen that are the propellants for the shuttle's main rocket engines during launch.
When a poorer neighbour helps you out for no cost, the appropriate response is 'thanks'. Russia doesn't have the resources or the credit rating of the US. If they need to charge for future help, the US could continue with them, or shop around and see if anyone else can do it as well or better for a good price, or, better still, find a new partner capable of footing part of the ISS bill. It is the ISS, after all, not the US&RSS. How about the rest of the world ponying up some dough?
Just claim it as their own. What's the US going to do? Kick 'em out?
It'd make an awesome weapon platform. They could event rent it out to the Chinese to use as a stop-over on their way to the moon. Maybe even a step toward a Russian-Chinese joint-venture on an eventual moonbase.
The US no longer has any power in space, and Russia, true to its nature, is taking advantage of this.
Not surprising.
"This is totally insecure, but very convenient."
You were paying to keep missile specialists and other assorted weapons designers from going to work for dubious nations. That actually pretty much describes the entire purpose of Russian involvement: the US wanted to keep rocket scientists from going to Iran after the fall of the USSR, so it paid them to make space junk.
Do the astronauts get frequent flyer miles for this trip?
Money cannot buy happiness, but can buy something soo darn close, that you can't really tell the difference
What a bunch of nonsense. Sounds like it was spoken by someone who has no clue about Russian politics or say Russia's relations with China or Ukraine. Please go read up on those topic from a reputable source (note this might be a long read as you don't seem to know much).
on the pickup trucks with the gun racks:
"Gas, Grass, or Ass, Nobody Rides for Free!"
This reminds me of that guy who paid a butt-load of money to Russia for a trip to the ISS but had to stay on Russia's side of the station. Is the US going to doing space tourism of their own now? I thought we built most of the ISS anyways?
Space is the future but the past is closer to the truth.
It has taken two so-called space tourists into space in recent years for $20m each, and Mr Perminov said Russia was in discussions to send two more tourists in 2006.
IN SOVIET RUSSIA, SPACE TOURS YOU!!
Of course, all things considered, the CCCP or whatever they go by now, is a much cheaper ferry ticket, and unless I am mistaken on my numbers, far less fatal.
After to post-cold war halo faded, the only thing the US and Russia had in common was a joint desire to destabilize the Muslim world. Bush lets Putin get away with Chechnya, Putin looks the other way on Iraq.
Isn't the new Space transport (CEV) due to begin flying trials sometime late in 2005? If we can complete testing by 2006 perhaps we can allay some of the costs incurred by paying the Russians.
Addendum information class, 44535i
Topic: Manouver to effectivly gain ridership from an unknown source.
Step 1: Extend arm.
Step 2: Make fist, then extend thumb to full open position.
Step 3: Bend elbow to move hand from starting position to the side of the head. Count to two, return hand to starting position, count to two, and repeat.
Step 4: Optional step for female austronauts - pull up right leg covering to expose skin.
With any luck, you will attract the attention of passing space craft who will give you a ride to your destination of choice, preferably the International Space Station.
I haven't lost my mind!
It is backed up on disk...somewhere...
MOD Parent UP.. This is a great idea. Compair 500M for one shuttle launch to 20M per person on a russian launch. Sounds like a good investment to me. We could launch 10 americans per year and still have enough to fund an entire (real) science mission each year with money to spare.
"Truth is much too complicated to allow anything but approximations"
Nobody RTFA article I see. Cause if they did, Russia wasn't shuttling anyone for free. They were getting credit for parts they did not complete on ISS themsleves.
US space scientists are better paid in private industry these days.
This desperate attempt to equate Russia to the US isn't just completely factually wrong, it shows how insane the lefty slashbots have become.
The parent made no reference to the United States, no clue that he is an American, yet this typically idiotic retort assumes so, so it's "hey lookie here, the US is just as bad!".
It's just pathetic how the anti-Americanism just has to pop up when criticism of another country comes up. Is there no other line of line of defense here?
if they want it this way then let the Russians build thier own space station. America the powerful can do without others since the USA is the greatest nation ever to exist on the face of the planet.
:\
All naysayers can get stuffed!
And people wonder why planes crash into buildings with attitudes like this
It would be interesting to see how many people in the US could actually find Russia on the world map. I've been told of a friends days at school in the US where a number of people could only name 4-5 states in America - one couldn't even find the state he lived in!
To the rest of the world, it seems like "America - home of the brave.... and the stupid."
Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing an editor and a MTA.
I don't understand how especialy the american can be reacting so egoistic and selfcetered about the INTRENATIONAL spacestation.
Like they own the world, Actulay they own nothing they have big debts which only grow.
I wonder how long it will take before the rest of the world start realizing this sceme.
I am hoping i will see that day.
And americans become again sane people.
There are no stupid questions, Just a lot of inquisitive idiots. (from a good friend)
The U.S. space program today is a shadow of its past. It's primarily a holdover from a pissing match between the budding USA and the USSR.
The USSR has ceased to be a "superpower", and the USA has established clear, military dominance. What's the point of NASA today?
What's really interesting is the kickoff of the private/commercial space age begun with SpaceShipOne. The Ansari X-Prize wasn't the goal - it was the starting line.
Within the next 1-2 decades, we'll see the old-style national space agencies dwarfed as pure economics brings scale to the space industry.
Space today is basically a high-dollar, cottage industry. Everything is hand/custom made at high expense, and in painfully small volumes.
It'll start with the obvious - people paying $25,000/seat to fly into space for an hour. Technology will be refined, prices will drop, and by the time I'm an old guy (I'm 32 now) I expect to be able to spend a week in space at a price I could actually afford.
But that's not so big, as the reality that new uses for the reduced-cost space travel will be discovered - uses we have no way of predicting.
Just like Edison could never have predicted micro-electronics, the future holds possibilities we can only begin to imagine!
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
in the Grace of God, how right you are my friend
1 seat on the Russian taxi sells commercially for $25 M US dollars, however that included several weeks of training, as the story goes.
I believe that the Soyuz is a 3-seater. Assuming all passengers are capable astronauts, It isn't unreasonable to still expect the astronauts can travel for the same price as a civilian tourist.
At that price, let's round up and say the seven-person Space Shuttle ride equivalent is $200 M US dollars. I believe that the cargo volume in the Soyuz is much smaller, so tack on $50-100 M US dollars for an additional supply-only launch.
It sure seems to me like no matter how you jiggle the numbers, there really isn't much fiscal sense to fire up the Space Shuttle, for routine, non-assembly missions. A billion-dollar Shuttle launch means 1/3rd to 1/4th the investment value.
However, without Russian re-entry vehicles, there would be no one in our ISS. So, I suppose that paying Russia is, after all, better than paying the Chinese. The Chinese would demand a king's ransom: i.e. access to critical space technologies that would allow the Chinese to accelerate their program to militarize space by installing a particle-beam weapon in low earth orbit.
Part of the Strategic Arms reduction treaty, Russia is scheduled to remove all 308 R-36M MIRV systems from active service. These are hoisted by Dnepr boosters. Since 1999 the Russians have been looking for a commercial application for the Dnepr launch system. They've had a few failures and a few problems, but who hasn't? (ESA Ariane-5 for example).
So the Russians seem to have found a good use for the Dnepr system. But the remaining problem for them is that the Russians want to stop using Baikonur cosmodrome in Kazakstan and start using Svobodny 18 in Far Eastern Siberia. Problem is that Svobodny 18 isn't built for the Dnepr.
The bottom line is that Russians need money to sustain their skill levels in space technology by retaining the old and training the new engineers and scientists. Or else these talents may end up in the darker side of the think-tank market.
I am in favor of paying them off for the lift. Heck, I'm surprised that we hadn't been so far.
The US has bankrolled the whole project.
Maybe the line item didn't read "payment for taking us to ISS", but our tax dollars have been funding the whole shebang.
International my ass. We should be going it alone, not bankrolling other nations science programs.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Actually, $20M is pretty close to what it costs to develop and build a reusable spacecraft from the ground up ... if you're the private sector, anyways.
"Because Science" is one step from "Because old book". Try "Because of my experiment testing my falsifiable assertion".
Parent is a hitchhiking joke.
Really the US can afford to pay Russia for space trips. The problem has always been that nobody can decide whose budget is going to pay for it. This forces the issue.
I'm not convinced that Russian boosters are any safer than US Shuttles. But whatever.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
...companies around the world are choosing to charge for services that they have determined would otherwise be a significant burden to continue to give for free.
Things are often offered with the understanding that they will only be lightly used. Once they become more heavily used, a different arrangement must be worked out. There is no clear division between the two, so the decision of transition is somewhat arbitrary.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. If every decision involving other countries is interpreted as having a hidden meaning, how can countries ever get along?
> USA - The world is NOT your enemy!
They why do they keep acting like it?
(Well, the world minus our allies in Eastern Europe, Iraq, etc.)
like with business, i'm sorry to say, in international relations they do whatever they can get away with. both sides are strapped for cash and the business types on both sides look for ways to make some. its their job. dont bash them for doing it.
on the other hand, be sure to put things in perspective and realize that there are scientific types on both sides, who just want to advance the science. best science isnt done for money anyways. money is just a means, not the end.
i guess what i'm saying is, while on some level this is always going to be a pissing contest, lets on our level keep mutual admiration for great achievements out of it.
buy bombs not space shuttles -- motto of Bushism, ya know...
what a suprise for me to read such comments. what a suprise...
i've heard that usa wants to go to mars, is it right? how are you going there, guys? by amtrak train? or may be the same way like you did your famous trips to iraq - by big galaxys from lockheed, or may be on nimitz? unfortunately nimitz it's huge enough to scare poor iraqies, but not applicable for space traveling, just remind you.
for last two years russia was doing all, i must emphasize, all flights to iss. more than that - russian space-suits were in use for all open space activities, even for usa' astronauts (what a ugly name you guys invented!). i shouldn't say anything about technologies and more - experience - what usa got for free from russia, and already using it for quite long period.
usa may be powerfull country to conquer iraq and afganistan, but not to conquer space. you have obvious lack of smart people - begining from your president and ending by your nasa' head. with such a enourmous nasa budget it's impossible to do not make foolproof and reliable shuttle, even paul allen could make it with much less money. nasa farted all.
that's all why russia stops doing all stuff for "free". why "free"? because it wasn't free - russia was paying back. now it's time to dictate our rules.
prepare to loose iss control, cow boys...
Actually they have already build several of them, that last one being Mir....
Regarding your sig, you moron:
Your own "FAQ" link from BBC says it all: "When will the volcano on La Palma collapse? [...] The collapse of the [...] volcano [...] is not going to happen tomorrow or next week. [...] What scientists are predicting is that the collapse is likely to happen any time within the next few thousand years. Scientists also know that a collapse will not happen without any warning."
As a society that favors athletes and entertainers over people that contribute to society in real ways (other than mental masterbation) we deserve to have to pay a formerly communist country to condescend to take us to space. We have a country full of universties where teaching is for foriegners by foreigners, where we've dumbed down the curiculum so that anyone can go and keep going for as long as possible to enrich the university rather than the student. We encourage immoral, unproductive behavior and arograntly promote this attitude to the rest of the world. We worship money above all. We now sow what we've reaped.
Shame on us all........
Could this be a cover for NASA to give money to the Russian space program without Congressional outcry to keep all those scientists employed instead of them drifting off to less than-honorable gigs to actually make money to keep their families fed?
1998 Report suggesting giving Russia Space Program bailout
Mir and the Salyut's
I'm just relaying what I've read about Russia in the news. You know the news can be biased and not draw the whole picture. I was simply trying to draw a picture from what was going on in the news. If you want to hook me up with some reads on the Russia-West relations, I'll be glad to read them.
God spoke to me
is a real alternative to the shuttle. Something slime, easy to manuever, and doesn't blow up in space. Preferablye the last one. But seriously, there's no way in hell Congress would approve of paying the Russians to send Americans into space.
Derive Politics
russia puts a --; on the USA!
...for the shuttle. We hear today that the shuttle's fuel tanks are now safer, but that it may cost a bit more.
Now the pressure will start for resuming shuttle flights. At the same time the Russians say they'll charge money to ferry the astronauts.
Hmmm. I wonder when that phone call took place?
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
Ah, they have devices for this now, especially useful to astronauts. It's called an Electronic Thumb. I hear it especially good near hyperspace bypasses.
Yeah, because we all know how bush has ceased the election of governors, and has consolidated the press and much of private industry under government control. And we've been attempting to interfere with soveriegn elections what disagreed wih Washington policy. Also, we have not been acting as if the world was our enemy, just terrorists, and their backers. meanwhile, Putin is distancing Russia further and further from democracy. but hey who the fuck cares right, BUSH=BAD.
Putin is leadng Russia towards fascism, deal with it. the US is not the greatest evil in the world. I can't see how Europeans can get so outraged over the patriot act and visit us, but claim that islamofascism is just the culture of the middle east and its their god given right to mutilate, stone, and otherwise oppress their women, ethnic minorities, and political dissidents. but hey, the US toppled Saddam, so we're worse than the Nazis.
Why do i even bother feeding the trolls?
That's always the example given for "stupid americans", isn't it? Geography.
I guarantee you'll get the same results from a random sampling in any nation on earth. How many Canadian provinces can the average spaniard name? How many Peruvian districts can the average Chinaman name? It's irrelevant, it's trivia.
We put men on the moon and brought them back safely. What have you done lately?
Heh, Had to be said.
Stick it to the Kapitalists!
For lots of posts by people who have no idea how complicated this kind of stuff is.
The entire Apollo program cost approximately as much as Queen Isabella spent to send Christopher Columbus to the new world.
In percentages, it's about 0.12% of our GDP at its peak.
Although I can't find substantiation online, I know that Robert Heinlein asserted that the DoD spends NASA's YEARLY budget every single day of the year.
All that money. *snort*
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens.
"Every security scheme that is based on secrets eventually fails." - Steve Jobs
Every security scheme eventually fails. -- me.
So much for a FREE ride...
Our culture revolves around the dollar, but it's all got to be spent on security or marketing security for some reason.....
And people wonder why planes crash into buildings with attitudes like this :\
Exactly! If people claim to have the greatest nation on earth, you have a moral obligation to murder them all. Can't have someone being the best.
these guys
The US Government cannot pay money to Russia for launch services due to an Act of Congress. This was passed to prevent any monies going to Russia (or the Soviet Union) after they supplied weapons to Iran.
This announcement by the RSA is nothing more than a rehash of an old argument - and one that will not be solved any time soon as it would require an Act of Congress.
The only way it can be resolved realistically is through a barter arrangement (which is what RSA is suggesting in some reports). Hence, not a lot of immediate use to the "cash-strapped Russian space program".
Maybe there is a bit of having NASA over a barrel in it.
But its also a fact that the Russian's have been completely carrying the ISS since Columbia mostly at their own expense and while NASA still wants to dictate how ISS though it hasn't shouldered any of the burden for nearly 2 years and probably 3 before the shuttle resumes any useful role. For example they tried to stop Russia from taking tourists to the ISS to raise cash and the Russian's gave them the finger.
Its also more than a little sickening to hear NASA and its minions talk about how they are "on schedule" to return to flight next year. Well they aren't even remotely "on schedule". After the accident report they said they were going to return to flight in March 11, 2004. NASA return to flight window doesn't even open until May of 2005 now and chances are slim they will stay on that schedule based on track record. I don't think this flight actually does anything other than fly to the ISS, inspect it for booboos and fly back again. Hopefully they will carry a few loaves of bread and bottles of water to the crew.
@de_machina
And we've been attempting to interfere with soveriegn elections what disagreed wih Washington policy.
Certainly happened in Australia -- Mark Latham was criticised quite heavily by the American ambassador during the campaign, and Bush did photo ops with Howard at the same time.
The comments so far seem to be a flamefest on Russia. Personally, I think that Russia is justified on asking for money to pay to send US astronauts into space. So what that the US is building most of the ISS personally? The Russians could care less, the US' money isn't going torwards them, but to the building. All the Russians see is that they're lugging an extra American and equipment into space at their expense. It should be common courtesy to pay back a bit for their services. You'd be pissed if that guy in the carpool who lives half an hour out of town didn't even say "Thanks" for picking him up every morning. The US should realize that they can't rely on other countries to be their taxis forever while they stall on the next generation of US spaceflight.
Gasoline money, cannabis, or sexual favours? Man, that doesn't sound much like the Texas of song and story.
Money to send to Iraq? Iraq was the biggest waste of man-hours and money this country has ever done. If invading Iraq was such a good thing, why are our soldiers still being killed even after their "Dictator" was taken out or power??? Far fewer people have been killed (worldwide) in space travel than soldiers (on both sides) in this stupid Iraqi war.
This sticker has been around for at least 30 years, probably much longer.
Scrap it.
Russia had countless failures as well with many more still locked away to not show the embarassment of a near impoverished barely functional nation-state.
Touche!
As for space stations, Russia may have put more into orbit but remind me again the nothingness gained from it? Compare this to a long line of successful probes put out by NASA with so much scientific data recovered they can't process it in a timely fashion.
Should the US keep freeloading? No.
But we really shouldn't even try to compare a broken down busted from the begining space program to the US's...I mean they couldn't afford new equipment they recycled most of their junk and cut so many corners they were destined to their record of failures, aside from the Soyuz of course.
It pays the cost to be the boss! Here's an idea, once you fly up the Shuttle and you suspect a problem with the wing, send an Astronaut out for a spacewalk and check the fuckin' wing. If there's a problem, just hang at the space station or take an emergency re-entry vehicle. ...and if a spacewalk is too dangerous, then we shouldn't be in space in the first place.
-Nazz
Bomb them! That's the American way!
irc.enterthegame.com #linux
Course many are still locked away as national "secrets" or shame. Then again, having true ambition involves true risks.
This reminded me.
Do you know how how they used to decide on the distance that was the border between "national waters" and "international waters"?
Really simple. It was the maximum range of coastal guns. If they could reasonably be expected to occasionally nail a craft from the shore at that distance, it was national waters. Otherwise, international.
I don't read AC A human right
Far fewer people have been killed (worldwide) in space travel than soldiers (on both sides) in this stupid Iraqi war
And even fewer people have been killed by spontaneous human combustion!
>"Gas, Grass, or Ass, Nobody Rides for Free!"
That's not Bushite! Texan, sure, but one of the good guys thought that one up!
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
The US should realize that we can't count on other countries. For anything. Take Russia for instance. We underwrite their space program by funding their portion of the ISS. Then, we pay for their Cosmonaut training. We foot the bill for tracking, logistical support, and rescue standby everytime they drop a capsule back down on Siberia.
Neither can we count on people like you to actually do your homework. What you fail to realise is that this is part of Russia putting the squeeze on to extort more money out of the US to build more spacecraft. Russia, meanwhile, is staring down the cash-spicket knowing it'll be shut off any second now because the Russian military can neither confirm nor deny it transferred missile technology to Iran.
And make no mistake, it's not simply the hundreds of millions that are going into the Baikonur Cosmodrome, but the potentially billions more that will be lost on sales of RSV Energiya products and booster sales when the US embargoes Russian space products. So kick back and giggle with glee that someone else is trying to shaft the US, but before you bliss out on schadenfreude, you might want to get a clue. Russia isn't doing us a favor. They're stiffing us like an immigrant taxi driver.
I mean it. Who the hell cares about reusable? The Russians don't. Their space program seems be running along smoothly with almost no funds without reusable space vehicles. They have a budget of only a quarter billion.
Granted, NASA does a lot besides get people to orbit...wait a minute, NASA doesn't get people to orbit, does it?
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
>And we've been attempting to interfere with soveriegn elections
Heh, funny you should mention that. The US wanted the Iraq election results changed in their favour but Iraq said no.
Putin/Bush not much difference IMHO. Only difference is that the US population are totally oblivious to it.
USA - The world is NOT your enemy!
49% of us know...we really do.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Right. Social welfare programmes like the ones we've spent trillions on in the US -- and yet, we've got tons of poor folks at home and abroad.
Right. Agricultural development. Because crop yields would be so much higher without infrared imaging to spot diseased areas (or brush fires) in nearby areas, GPS to send him (or firefighters) out there to fix it, weather satellites to tell him whether or not it's going to rain this week, or other monitoring stations so that he can prepare a year or two in advance for an El Nino or La Nina event.
The reason you have a higher standard of living than Louis XIV could have dreamed of is because people decided to invest in technology rather than bandaid fixes to immediate problems.
At the turn of the century, people were worried that New York City was growing at a rate that would result in the streets being literally knee-deep in horseshit by the 50s.
There was even one chap who printed out handbills at a printing shop called Ink-blot Dot Org, saying "If they'd have taken all that money that people spent on Henry Ford's silly contraption, and put it into hiring the poor as street sweepers, New Yorkers would have been better off!"
"I've been told of a friends days at school in the US where a number of people could only name 4-5 states in America - one couldn't even find the state he lived in!"
I find that hard to believe. My son id six, and his clase can name the state they are in and surronding states. I would wager in a few years he will be able to name most, if not all the states.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
They're no longer communist. Besides, why should we dump our responisbility of the ISS onto them and expect them to pay for it? Maybe you can fund Microsoft's R&D for Longhorn for them?
>And even fewer people have been killed by spontaneous human combustion!
I'm sure if Bush could find a way, he would up those totals for you.
DUH :)
The U.S. now states that all future flights ferrying cosmonauts to the ISS via the space shuttle will have to be paid for by Russia... Wait a second... This just in, it turns out the Russians are now blaming their previous announcement on a drunken minister and their previous statements were really just a bunch of crap. In response, the Americans have backed down too...
He'd invade Syria in retaliation for Russia taking over the ISS.
the united socialists of america have always ridden on the asses of the poor, pump first, pay later.
for the cardboard box.
(after they have harvested your corneas and certain organs due to experiments with certain foodstuffs).
Spend the money on private space projects, unmanned probes and the Mars mission. Who needs the ISS boondoggle anymore anyway?
Sigh.
As usual we get the slew of high moderated posts about how the americans built everything, and how the russians are now gouging them.
Some people blame the americans, others the russians. All didn't read the article.
Fact: The russians are currently ferrying everything to the station.
Fact: NASA is grounded.
Fact: The russians are very low on funds, and can't afford to keep doing this.
They've stated that they'll wait to see if NASA meets its May deadline to get their shuttles going again.
They've stated that they want to negotiate something to ease the burden (such as bartering for the man hours they currently owe for other work).
America's response hasn't been made clear yet.
Is this gouging? No. They haven't even entered negotiations yet.
Should they gouge? Some of you "capitalist or die" affictionados may think so, but that kind of thinking is what drives the CEOs who only look to the next quarter's earnings, and what they can get out of it before the thing collapses.
This doesn't work in world politics, as can be seen from the fallout of Iraq.
Oh this isn't my area of knowledge. Why is our shuttle fleet grounded?
--fetch daddy's blue fright wig, i must be handsome when i release my rage
Bunch of nonsense and BS. Nothing in the ISS project is done for free. Russia was taking US astronauts to the station seemengly "for free" as a payment for certain debt it owed to the US side of the project (the full details are openly available on the Net). This debt is about to get repaid in full accordance with pervious mutual agreements between Russian and US sides of the project. There's nothing new in this announcement. That's how it was planned to be from the very beggining. And now american "journalists" are trying to represent it as if Russia suddenly made a cunning surprise decision about charging US for giving its astronauts a ride to ISS. Talk about primitive demagogy. The truth is that Russia didn't make any concrete decisions and/or announcements about future terms of collabortion with US that will take effect once US uses up all its "free rides". It's just that someone high in the chain of command on the US side needed a new cooked sensation (most likely - to divert public attention from something elese, as usual) and paid someone else some very good money to push it into mainstream mass media in the US. Your tax dollars at work, so to say. Typical Slashdot's morons, as always, swallowed the bait very quickly.
How many Canadian provinces can the average spaniard name? How many Peruvian districts can the average Chinaman name? It's irrelevant, it's trivia.
I think parent was talking about their own geography. I don't know about China/Spain, but in Russia (where I'm originally from), one cannot pass a high-school geography class without knowing every major country and every capital in the world (how many US citizens know the capitals of Canada and Mexico?)... Russian highschool geography classes also cover the geological and economic properties of East European, Middle Eastern, and Asian countries. That includes not only rivers and mountains, but coal, oil, and iron production... (how many US Citizens know the exports/imports to/from Canada/Mexico?).
Because of this lack of basic geographical knowledge of the world (one that statesmen and politicians understand infinitely more), how should we expect the American people to understand why our government does things like go to war with Iraq?
I have a solution!
1. Russia becomes the 51st U.S. state. Of course, we'll have to rename it to something more friendly, like say East Dakota. One advantage of this is that while Putin makes a really lousy president, he'll be about in the middle as governors go.
2. That interstate commerce thing, "Congress shall make no law" and all that. Now we can pay the Russ - sorry, East Dakotans to ferry us up to ISS.
3. Profit!
Because the U.S. sends tons of food to Russia every year. Russia also received Lend/Lease aid during WWII, but Stalin kept it a secret to boost morale.
The U.S. also pays to help remove and dipose of Russia's nuclear waste.
In soviet Russia, the astronauts pay you.
It's better to have terrorists kill armed soldiers than blowing up schools.
FFS! If anywhere is to be the 51st state then it should be Engle-land (The Scots, Welsh, Irish and NuLabour get to see England abolished. A dream come true for them). We have the baseball caps, the obesity and the fast food. All we are lacking is the 'Easy-to-tell-if-it-is-the-right-way-up' flag and some constitutional protection of our rights. And some rights. :-)
Come on guys, Put the American border 20 miles from France!
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
As it was only called Deutsche Mark back then.
There first was the "Reichsmark", laten the
"Rentenmark". The "Deutsche Mark" was only introduced after WW2 by the western allies.
- BBC stands for British Broadcasting Corporation.
- The article states clearly that the 2005 'freebies' were paying off the man-hour debt for the work on the station.
- The original interview, which states clearly: "Starting from 2006, we shall bring American astronauts to the ISS on a commercial basis" comes from Itar Tas - also not a US organisation.
Quit your pathetic whining about the evils of US journalism and learn to read the article before complaining about what you'd like to think it might say.++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
after IT gettting Bangalored......space programs are getting Bikanoured !!! :)
Really? I thought it was an International Space Station.
a) Would let the Russians take the space station the US paid for?
Would you like to provide facts to back up this statement that the USA paid for the entire station?
Safety concerns following when the last one blew up during re-entry.
Stephen
"Don't write down to your readers, the only people less intelligent than you can't read" - Sign on Newspaper Office Wall
And given the common feelings expressed about Bush over here that's a few more electoral college votes for the Democrats. According to the US Census in 2000 the UK has the about the population of California, Texas and Nevada added together (UK Population is somewhere around 55million). Even England alone has over 50million so that's about the same as California and either Texas or New York. Should be worth a few Electoral college votes.
Stephen
"Don't write down to your readers, the only people less intelligent than you can't read" - Sign on Newspaper Office Wall
No, waitaminute...
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
I find that hard to believe. My son id six, and his clase can name the state they are in and surronding states. I would wager in a few years he will be able to name most, if not all the states.
:)
I should actually clarify - this was in high school - so they'd be about 17-18 years old... Not sure if the Americans use the term High School for that age, but it's what I've seen used in both the UK and Australia, so I guess it fits
Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing an editor and a MTA.
>> In the beginning, the ISS was supposed to be a great international effort to promote science in orbit, among other things.
;-)
> Actually, in the beginning it was supposed to be an American space station.
Perhaps they didn't want to do it themselves after they figured out the acronymn for 'American Space Station'?
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
I think parent was talking about their own geography.
Exactly. If you can't even identify which part of a country you've spent 17+ years of your life living in, then how the hell are you going to get any respect from the rest of the world...
I live in Australia, and I know we have 8 states (actually 6 states and 2 territories) but I can at least name them, and point to where I live!
I think I'd have a better chance of guessing some of the US states than people that were in his class - and I've only ever visited the US once.
What is going to be the attitude towards the rest of the world from these guys who don't even know where they are? This is one of the many reasons a lot of people *really* dislike America.
Sendmail is like emacs: A nice operating system, but missing an editor and a MTA.
We have a solution now - you go there for free and pay the fare only for the return trip when ready to do so.
Disclaimer: Prices may change without prior announcements... Khorosho?What happened to the spirit of exploration?
U.S.S. Definant Dedication Plaque (John Masefield) - "All I ask for is a tall ship and a star to steer her by."
Oh yeah, that must have been the *other* France that wanted to test nukes in the South Pacific and bombed a Greenpeace boat in a New Zealand harbor.
I wonder if its the same France protecting French colonials, errm, "peacekeeping" in Ivory Coast?
And is it the same France that backed Michel Aoun's power grab during the Lebanese civil war that led to the destruction of Beruit?
This is just the beginning of a long and dirty laundry list of relatively recent French extracurricular activities.
One last joke at French expense:
Q: Why are the roads in France lined with trees?
A: So the German army can march in the shade.
That's right. Charge Russia to send people into space. But take everyone else for free like we've been doing.
Thanks for the correction. You are totaly right.
The idea from the original post is however still remaining.
You can't solve a debt by printing more paper money.
At least one american does understand that, he is called greenspan.
There are no stupid questions, Just a lot of inquisitive idiots. (from a good friend)
I call bullshit. $20 Mil is what it would cost to put a plastic spacecraft w/ little utility 100 kilometers up. $20 Mil is NOTHING. You would have to look at hundreds of millions and perhaps even billions to develope a reusable spacecraft that actually serves a purpose. You do understand that I'm referring to SpaceShipOne, right?
A blog like any other.
What is going to be the attitude towards the rest of the world from these guys who don't even know where they are? This is one of the many reasons a lot of people *really* dislike America.
That's the problem: there will be no attitude. There won't be any reaction at all, except what the party advocates. They know no better than to accept rhetoric like "they hate us because we are free". How can you expect Americans to form opinions on these things when so many of them are so ignorant?
A lot of countries would have done far better without the loans that are given to their dictators, who buy tanks to oppress their people, to do in the mean time americas biddings. (More or less how the world bank worked for years). Then after they finaly got rid of their dictator, which flees to a country to live a rich life with the money that he stole and deposited in the foreign banks (luckely nobody wanted sadam) The world bank starts requesting a payback of their loaned money.
Please explain why any of those loans should be paid back.??
A lot of money the US is "giving" is to buy support for their point of view. (like if you vote in favor for kyoto, you will get no money or reduced medicine payment to fight aids.)
In europe we call something like that extorsion.
Anyway if you don't want to help others and have a lot of problems yourself. FINE. Please leave the rest of the world alone and solve your own problems first, we will understand.
If you would travel and explore the world you would see a lot of countries doing far better. And i am not only refering to european countries.
So if you see this, in my point of view this only shows how broken the american capitalistic system is. As was the communistic system. So please do not export it, it is rotten.
If you think other countries are not helping each other (without conditions, free as in beer), you are way wrong. I live in south amerika and here there are a lot of good schooling or other projects. But all these projects are supported by eithers japanes or europeans.
anyway, I hope i will see a better america in the future, but i definatly hope the current version go down like the USSR did.
greets a concerned world inhabitant
There are no stupid questions, Just a lot of inquisitive idiots. (from a good friend)
Chernopol maybe?
The USA spends about $38 billion a year on forign aid, and very rarely gets anything back. Must help between nations be entirely one-sided?
the artificial satellites.
This technology enables: storm tracking and weather prediction, remote sensing and satellite photography for land use management and environmental monitoring, GPS for naviation and surveying, and global telecommunications.
There is little doubt in my mind that the economic values of these applications easily justify the entire effort mankind has put into space exploration.
There is also to my mind a difference in perspective in being able to see the Earth for what it is: a big blue ball, not a patchwork of countries painted different colors. The future impact of this is hard quantify however.
In any case other technologies relationship to space exploration is somewhat more tenuous. It is possible they would have been developed anyways as part of a different effort. However, the relationship between space exploration and satellite technology is completely unambiguous.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
NASA is re-naming the science module the American Space Station High Observation Laboratory Environment after its management team.
1. It's a drop in the ocean. As people have said all over this discussion, its $20million per launch versus $1 billion for the shuttle. It'd make more sense to scrap the shuttle completely, give up on it, and codevelop/comanufacture Soyuez with the Russians.
2. It's realistic. The Russian space program is extremely strapped for cash, yet we are RELYING on it to keep the ISS in space. Yes, the U.S. has probably paid more in this venture. At the same time, the U.S. has a great deal more funding avaliable. Not even the U.S. government at large, but NASA it self. NASA's budget is many, many times the size of the Russia space program.
Instead of thinking of Russia as some kind of nebulous partner, think about it this way: For launches, we are 'contracting' out to the Russian space program.
Doesn't sound so bad in that context, eh? Who would you rather pay? American contractors, to work on the shuttle, literally spending BILLIONS of dollars, 70% of which is pork? Or the Russian space program, which incidentially helps (slightly) our relationship with Russia, and who can do the job better, faster, and cheaper.
Screw the shuttle. They do it better, and we should learn from them. We American's need to pull our head's out of our collective anuses.
The Russians attempted to build a space shuttle in the 70s, and failed because of the cost (not techincal reasons). We should learn from that. It's just TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE.
3. There's no way around it. Russia doesn't have the money any more. That's a combination of our fault and their fault, by the way. Yes, communism was failing, because it was rotten. Their new economic system, shock-therapy capitalism, has so far been a disaster, as well. We planned it for them, eh? We set Russia up for this economic nightmare. They are, however, a competent people, with immense natural resources, so they will recover. At some point. But right now, there simply is no money in the Russian Space Agencies coffers.
For all you idiotic nae-sayers: THEY AREN'T TRYING TO GOUGE US! WHAT THEY ASK FOR IS NOTHING COMPARED TO WHAT BOEING WOULD ASK FOR! WE NEED THEM TO KEEP LAUNCHING SOYUEZ UNITS! THEY CAN'T DO IT WITHOUT FINANCIAL HELP!
Btw: I believe the number of Soyuez missions has stepped up because us, the U.S., can't get to space!
In comparison to our domestic contractors, or the ESA (European), or the JSA (Japanese), the Russians do a fine, cheap job.
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
One thing that always got me... if the powers that be had the same mentality now back a few hundred or thousand years ago, where would we be? America would not have been discovered (not to get into the "pros and cons of that / who discovered it first" type conversation) if we waited until it was safe until like the 1900s.
In fact, it seems pretty obvious to me that if you want to be on the frontier, you had better be willing to accept risks or to get out of the way for those that are. I have a lot more faith in corporations that are willing to think outside the box or countries with less lawyers then the US making it happen...
If anyone can ever make manned space travel more then a place for doing expensive research, I think you'd see a potential shift in the world powers
The economics of space flight have always seemed a bit dubious to me. The shuttle was palmed off on to us as an "economical" way to low earth orbit. We now know that, sadly, money was not the only thing it took from us. Now Russia--The Soviet Union--or whatever new republic, is asking for us to pay for our rides on their rockets. Seems like it is only fair. Maybe we did foot the bill for the ISS, but to my limited perspective, what we have asked of Russia would be like requiring airlines to give us free flights because taxpayers often pay a good majority of the cost to run airports and keep them in working order.
As an American citizen and a taxpayer, I feel that there is nothing wrong with paying a country to deliver our crew to the International Space Station. Pay as you go. Right? Now, let's apply this principle to every country in the world :)
Everybody hates the United States nowadays. The country is this and that when it comes to international politics. Yet when shit hits the fan, American taxpayers are *eager* to contribute. Did your poor country have an earthquake? That is not a problem; the Johnsons will pay for it. Need help when it comes to feeding your people? The Yanks will pay too; Americans who are poor do not need help anyway. I know that U.S.A. is not the first one in terms on donations in terms of GDP; still, it carries a good portion of the tab.
The solution? I do not know. I am not a fucking economist :) I can tell you that if we let everything slide without payments, the world will go broke. If we demand payments for everything that we do, the world will go broke as well. Shit can happen to anybody and since we have to share this damn planet in some sort of fashion; we might as well help each other in order to achieve a better standard of living. However, help should be delived appropriately. We give you zero percent loans, please let us have your coffee at a discount or let American companies do business in your country without taxes (or something like that).
Given the fact that Russian goverment is fucked up to the point of no return -- this comes from a person who lived there -- and due to corruption, I suggest that we directly fund the mission or give money to public schools or something along those lines. I remember the times when humanitarian aid that came to Russia ended up in the hands of those who needed it the least; let it not happen again.
You know, I thought we were doing France a favor by renaming French fries. I can't imagine a country with such pride in their cuisine would want those soggy and greasy potato things named after them.
a,e,i,o,u and sometimes w and y (at be if of up cwm by)
Is BBC reputable enough?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4114215.stm
Expecting us to PAY, yes PAY, for something that should be free. Fuck 'em.
Why bother following the law..
It didnt seem to bother His holiness Ronald Reagan
when he sold aircraft and missile parts to Iran
to finance an illegal war in Nicaragua.
Sure the Democrats squeaked a little, but in the end
they did nothing about it.
Then why not sell F-14 parts to Israeli companies who route them to Iran while sending the profits to the Russian space agencies in questions?
The currency from Rocky and Bullwinckle.
They agreed to add trips to my frequent flier miles.
But Mars has WMDs!
Damn! I just figured out why the CIA were so willing to pay me thousands of dollars for an old VHS copy of Flash Gordon.
Okay, I'll admit that scribbling out the title and replacing it with "secrEt martiaN terrorist footage" was a little disingenuous, but I hadn't expected them to believe me.
Expect news of an "Anti-Hot Hail Defence System" and "Unprecedented Solar Eclipse prediction network" to be coming from the US government some time soon.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
Russia (as well as China) is not sort of a country, which can be accused of terrorism.
US goverment and press make quite a clear distiction in this area - if country has some nuclear missiles, it couldn't be blamed for terrorism.
Maximum crime is violation of human rights. And maximum punishment allowed is an embargo, not bombardments.
So, lets see if we would read that evil Russians violate a basic human right of american astronauts to ride to ISS free of charge.
or the Ronald Reagan Space Station
Russian space tech is crappier than NASA's
Considering their respective track records in terms of money spent, missions flown, and number of accidents, this must be some new meaning of the word "crappier" that I wasn't previously aware of. I guess it's like the "amazing space pen" vs. "a pencil"; for some people "better" means "more complicated and more expensive, even if it doesn't really work".
Although as a Europena I do take slight offense at the 2nd paragraph and do not aggree with the poster, I do not think that this should be moderated as troll.
I wished moderators would reserve this for posts that are clearly so hatefull that they are obviously only meant as provocation and insult.
The parent is clearly not hatespeech and I urge the moderators to therefore tolerate zors' opinion.
Going back 14 years when I lived and went to school in America.
My father and my friend's father are in the defence forces. We arrived mid-way through the american school year and went into year 10 (sophmore year). I'm not exceptionally bright but just the way it worked out I went from end of year 9 to middle of year 10.
Two days into starting our school we had an American Geography test. The end result, my friend scored high 90's, i got mid 90's....the closest american student came in mid 50's percentile.
This was at a private catholic school which supposedly offered a decent education...i'd be horrified to see the results of a public system education.
Maybe things have changed in the school system, but from a lot of my interactions with Americans (friends and people i've met over the net) I don't believe it has.
Let me offer you a bit of Eastern Eeuropean perspective.
Then Bush came and said that Iraq needed this invasion and that iraqis would welcome Americans.
They did. They do. There is no chance that the majority of Iraqis won't welcome Saddam's demise because he was supporting the minority (Sunnis) all the while torturing/killing off the opposition.
Of course they are pissed off about US failure to stop robberies and incursion of crazy Taliban/Al Qaeda remnants. But that's a minor piont.
even in the countries of "the coalition", most people were against the warWhich countries? In EE most people supported the idea to squash Saddam, because they've been living under totalitarianism themselves for almost half a century (which is way more serious than those few years the French were stuck with Hitler) and still have pretty fresh memories of that period. BTW Blair suggested to take that EE experience seriously while all Chirac was able to say was: "they've missed a perfect opportunity to keep their mouths shut"... which is a clear indication that history books printed inside France are in the need for renewal.
As for Germans... i'd say they've lost a perfect opportunity to fight against the hitler of Mid-East.
War is fucking bad, it should always be avoided at all costsSo ivading France to rescue it from oppression (as opposed to "only for self-defence") is OK, but invading Iraq to rescue it from oppression is a bad idea? What kind of logic is that?
This "pre emptive war" thing is the biggest amount of crap I have ever seen.If only someone was smart enough to squash Hitler as soon as he came to power...
I'd say the world needs a new doctrine: as soon as someone reaches a status of a dictator somewhere he gets squashed immediatelly. I suppose democracy would be at no risk world-wide then.
Oh, and yes, diplomacy WAS possible with Saddam.Oh yes, the French are used to craft deals with totalitarian bastards. Like the one signed with Hitler in 1938 (on Czechoslovakia) or all those little lucrative agreements with Saddam...
Oh, and about the "freedom fries" actWTF? You're against Operation Iraqi Freedom because you are for Freedom? I guess "French logic" is a phrase i'm looking for.
Who ever said here : "You may not remember but Russia was a complete basket case before 1917, it couldn't fight a war, was humiliated by the Japanese Navy in 1905 and lost every campaign in World War I. Its economy was a basket case, most of its people illiterate and dirt poor, health care nonexistent." ,Ilya Mechnikov ,Nikolai Semyonov, Pavel Cherenkov, Lev Landau, Nikolai Basov and Alexander Prokhorov (who by the way created lasor), Petr Kapitsa, Zhores Alfyorov....all of these dudes are "dirt poor people" with Nobel prize! ... to all what was said by others I just wanna add one thing. Do u know what bad area means? Bad ghetto place? Where everything is scary : buildings & faces & thoughts....where people don't know what a doctor or colledge means. Crack addicts & prostitutes are walking by stinky streets. Any body who lived in states knows what it is. Almost every body in South America lives in it...Well let me tell u something there was NO PLACES LIKE THIS in Soviet Union & there's still NO in Russia nowadays. So take u'r "illiterate and dirt poor" & stick it in to u'r A.
WEll guess what I'm happy u can remember - demachina (71715) to help u remember even better here's a noncommercial link for u http://som.yale.edu/~drey/rusbonds/rus_ms.htm where u can read some about russian history smart guy. I suggest u start from the Peter the Great & his educational reforms...
Well I guess Rachmaninoff was writing his music not for those illiterate and dirt poor people & of cause he wasn't one of them ! Neither was Lomonosov or Mendeleev.
Ivan Pavlov
And to continue with the "Soviet Union didn't work" line
Where does my sig say "tomorrow or next week"? There will be warnings but they may only be understood in retrospect. We're not monitoring the landslide at this point and haven't been since 1997.
What we do know is that when the collapse happens there will be 8 hours to evacuate and that won't be enough time to get everybody out. Unless you know how to evacuate Manhattan in 8 hours.
Someone has reading comprehension problems...
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Where does my sig say "tomorrow or next week"? There will be warnings but they may only be understood in retrospect. We're not monitoring the landslide at this point and haven't been since 1997.
You implicitly admitted that in essense, your sig misleads people because it hides the fact that the mega-tsunami is not bound to happen very soon (which is something you blame on the reader to incorrectly miss, but in reality, you are fully aware that most people WILL be making the assumption if a precise time is not specified in your sig, you are actually RELYING on it to get people's attention).
The problem is that you don't have integrity.
If you are willing to mislead for one cause (irrespective of whether me or you believe it's a good cause), that tells me you will be willing to mislead for any cause that you see fit.
You might get your message across to the all-assuming masses, but you have a lot to learn if you ever want the more sophisticated audience to trust you.
You're the one misleading here. We don't know when La Palma will fall. It will happen from tomorrow to a millenium from now. We don't know and we're not watching it either.
.sig says. If you read more into it, that's an interpretation. If you think the .sig will get people to read about the problem, so much the better - maybe it'll save a few million lives.
Are you saying you somehow know it won't happen in the next month? (there's no activity now, so it obviously won't happen tomorrow) That's more than the geologists who study this stuff know, so you ought to talk to them about it.
What we do know is that a Mega-tsunami will hit the US. That's all the
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I can't see any realistic scenario that would lead to the USA once again going to war with either of those now friendly neighbours, but they are land borders and situations do change.
"Nations are not like Mother Teresa or Sir Galahad; they act not out of altruism but out of selfish national interest." Charles de Gaulle