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You mean the earth pin of my old SN41G2's power supply has been unconnected all this time??? What a safety hazard!

I used to do everything through NewEgg. Got a bad CPU through them, and the return went smoothly.

Unfortunately they don't have everything in the world. Recently had to replace a power supply in a Shuttle XPC. A local shop had something that would fit, but was terribly loud. Went looking for a PC 40 SilentX power supply. Newegg.com didn't have it listed, and I had a devil of a time deciding of those who did list it who was reliable.

Got lucky with ZipZoomFly.com. They had a good price & free shipping on that item. Seemed more legit than the places that made their profit on shipping.

I agree, except for the BTX example. I think BTX is being adopted (gradually) by the mainstream. We can't just expect them to drop all of their proven, mature ATX designs right away for newly designed BTX cases. For mainstream BTX that's already been released, see:

• Gateway 9000 series
• IBM ThinkCentre A51p
• Shuttle i Series
• Dell Dimension 9100 and 5000
• Dell Optiplex SX280, GX280, and GX620

Is Shuttle's XPC SB86i small enough (14.8" x 9.4" x 7.6")? It's very quiet (using the picoBTX standard) but only has one PCI slot and one x16 PCI Express slot. It's not that cheap, either.

If you like to build your own, its about $300 (barebones) at Newegg. If you don't, Shuttle sells a complete 3.0GHz P4 XPC based on the SB86i for about $1100 ($100 less if you dont need MS Office).

Is Shuttle's XPC SB86i small enough (14.8" x 9.4" x 7.6")? It's very quiet (using the picoBTX standard) but only has one PCI slot and one x16 PCI Express slot. It's not that cheap, either.

If you like to build your own, its about $300 (barebones) at Newegg. If you don't, Shuttle sells a complete 3.0GHz P4 XPC based on the SB86i for about $1100 ($100 less if you dont need MS Office).

I thought the (supposed) advantage of picoBTX was the efficient cooling system that's already part of the spec, which can be easily (and cheaply) implemented by any case maker. The components that need cooling (CPU, chipset, and GPU) are in-line with the BTX airflow and the fan/heatsink/thermal module is part of the CPU.

Quiet small form factor ATX systems tend to have specially designed (and expensive) cooling systems (like Shuttle's ICE heat pipe) and specially designed cases/PSUs. Most of the other SFF ATX systems that have tried to copy Shuttle's success are too noisy or hot. From what I've seen, none of them are cheap.

I thought the hard part of designing a SFF PC (quiet cooling) was already taken care of in the picoBTX spec. Note that Shuttle's picoBTX system is their only XPC that doesn't use their ICE heat pipe. If picoBTX gets more accepted, we should see more inexpensive, tiny, quiet picoBTX systems from a number of case manufacturers. But where the heck are they? Even Intel doesn't offer a picoBTX motherboard yet.

I was thinking the same thing. I've always wanted to get an Apple system for the experience of it, but the costs were always prohibitive. The Mac mini makes that much easier to achieve because of the cost, not the form factor.

This is a "move along, nothing to see here" thing for the PC world. I still would not mind scrapping most of my main desktops and replacing them with Shuttle systems -- except for my main gaming system, which of course has to be a pimped out, mega-system to satisfy the geekiness in me. :) But I don't see how making a Mac look-alike for the PC world is going to bring about the oohs and aahs that Intel thinks it will. With the cost of PCs and PC parts being what they are, there is no real advantage to this system over a Cappuchino or Shuttle system except for Intel to say, "Me, too!"

i'm happy with my shuttle sb52g2. very solidly constructed and great expandability.

Being an Apple fanboi might be the biggest factor. I think the other factors are its very small size and near-silent operation.

It seems to me like an odd choice since it's one of the few computers that cannot accomodate a beefy hard drive, nor a TV tuner card, and it's not in the format of a VCR/DVD/Stereo component. (Sure there are external add-ons, but those work with anything.)

Since the Mac Mini is so small (think 5-pack of jewel cases), the Mini plus the external add-ons take up less space than your average VCR. If you think about it, a Mac Mini with the external add-ons beside and/or stacked might not look half bad.

That said, I think the current Mac Mini is a lousy choice for a HTPC. I think it's more elegant (and cheaper) to have the big hard drive, TV tuner, and surround sound built into a larger (but still small) case. Two examples: (1) Shuttle XPC (eVGA NVTV dual tv-tuner does fit in some models) and (2) AOpen B300 case (microBTX).

Even worse, the Mac Mini's G4 processor is unsuitable for HDTV (forget about 1080i) and the all-in-one HTPC software for OS X is not anywhere near as good/mature as the Windows/Linux options.

People that think the Mac Mini makes a good HTPC are probably in denial over the fact that a Mac with OS X cannot currently do (elegantly) what a Windows or Linux box can. With its inadequate specs, the Mac Mini was obviously not designed for HTPCs. The necessary external add-ons are inelegant and expensive hacks. I'm sure Apple will someday design a desktop Mac (bigger than the Mini, of course) that is better suited for HTPC apps.

Crazy Headline indeed! Forget the Crack. Shuttle has a tank? Complete with turret and armor? Is it a small form factor? Will they call it the "XPC-1 Abrams"?

Solomon Chang

shuttle has been making small, fast, and quiet for some years now.

the hard drive is the loudest thing in my shuttle SFF, and that's already a very quiet maxtor with FDB. you can't even hear the fan at all.

i'd consider a mini, but dislike OSX (would rather run Debian). given that 'FoxConn Electronics' actually make the mini apparently:

http://www.spymac.com/forums/showthread.php?thread id=148682 ... i wonder if it's possible to catch them at the door ;)

if not guess i'd rather go with this Intel box, or the comparitively priced Shuttle.. what's a few inches anyway.. http://us.shuttle.com/

We were using some of these systems (http://www.atoz-ezgo.com.tw/) for over 1 year. It even has a gigibit jack and a pcmcia slot.

I'm not saying these are the best, but just something that's been on the market for a while.

Also, why do most people assume that when someone says PC, they think that == windos OS? It hasn't occured to me in the last 5 years to intentionally put a windos OS on a system.

I've got nothing against Apple nor the Mac (nowadays that they have a real OS), the stock has made me a lot of money over the past 9 months and I just ordered a Mac Mini the other day to port my software to the OS X platform.

And to answer the question about who would these small computers appeal to...me. We currently use Shuttle (http://us.shuttle.com/) systems as our in-field servers. We do action sports event photography and are schlepping 15+ computers with us. The smaller the better if you ask me :) It's not always about price, there are people who use computers for things other than games and neon add-ons.

Also if you travel and do a lot of demos and need several headless systems(not laptop)...these will do just fine. Pack 6 of these systems in your carry on and you're good to go.

I hope you can return whatever ugly case you bought, because there are some pretty nice looking ones out there... you just have to look really really hard.

Cases:
Silverstone LC09 (Mini-ITX)
Ahanix D4
Soldam Alphia

Barebones:
Shuttle SB86i

Complete PC:
Hush

Most of these are not as cool looking as my Mac Mini, but then, you wouldn't be limited to 1.43GHz G4 and laptop hard drives.

So, you're in the market for an empty piece of plastic? If you want something small and functional that's not a mac, think about a capuccino or shuttle.

Intel's mockup is just another empty PC knockoff to echo Apple's work.

It looks like drop in to me. http://global.shuttle.com/Product/Barebone/SN25P.a sp

(That's a link to the chassis this story is about).

Here:

http://global.shuttle.com/Product/Barebone/SN25P.a sp

Dimensions: 320 x 210 x 220 (L x W x H)

I'm using an SN41G2 as a server. It's not that noisy but it does seem to vibrate a lot. The DSL/wifi router sits on top of it and because of that it seems to rattle quite a bit.

I've installed a Zalman HDD mount, because I'm paranoid about losing hard discs. That sent my heatpipe count through the roof.

I'd like to get some rubber washers for the main exhaust fan (the newer Shuttles ship with these), and possibly a newer power supply.

This model has onboard graphics so instead of a graphics card fan I have a northbridge fan. Seeing as I don't run X on the system I could probably dispense with that relatively safely.

Not if you want:

• HDTV (not enough CPU for 1080i)
• Multiple tuners
• An big easy-to-use interface with a remote that controls TV, PVR, DVD, photos, music, CD/DVD burning, portable mp3 player synching, etc
• TV-out (S-video, component, composite)
• Big hard drive, tv-tuner, surround sound, and memory card reader in one or two small boxes.

Of course if you don't need tv and surround sound, then the Mac mini is freakin' sweet. I'd hardly call it a "media center box," though.

Other computer makers, such as HP, have so far been unsuccessful in marketing small computers to consumers.

I really don't think Apple have been particularly original with the design of the Mini. We've been seeing mini-barebones systems from manufacturers like Shuttle for all over the place for the last few years, and they've driven the idea well and truly into the mainstream. Non-tech friends of mine regularly present the XPC style as their first requirement in a new system, before any other spec like RAM, CPU or video. Gamers often have an XPC machine so they can cart them easily to LAN parties. They're all really common, so I think the paradigm shift to small cases already happened, and quite a while ago.

Of course, the original seed of the whole style might've just been the Apple Cube, I won't argue too hard against that.

That depends on your definition of a "home entertainment PC." I agree that the case looks good enough for a HTPC, but the Mac mini is not powerful enough for high def and needs more external accessories to be a "decent" HTPC, IMO.

To be a decent HTPC, I think the mini might need:

1. M-Audio Sonica Theater for surround sound and digital out (4.8" x 3.1" x 1.2")
2. Elgato EyeTV 200 for TV tuner/PVR (8.3" x 6.1" x 1.4")
3. An external hard drive might be needed, since SDTV eats about 2 GB per hour. On the other hand, video can also be burned onto DVD.

I priced an equivalent Shuttle for that purpose and arrived at about the same price as a Mini. That's not including the effort required to put the Shuttle parts together and install the OS. The Mini comes with everything ready to go...

Shuttle also sells complete systems with all the parts already together and OS already installed. They even sell Media Player XPCs with surround sound, digital output, TV tuner/PVR, and memory card reader inside the box. These Media Player XPCs run MS Windows Media Center Edition 2005 and include a remote. The cheapest one starts at $950 and includes a 3Ghz Pentium 4, 512MB RAM, 80GB HD, DVD/CD-RW combo drive (Dual layer DVD burner for $32 more), keyboard/mouse, and all that other "media center" shit I mentioned before (surround, digital, DVR, remote, etc).

That depends on your definition of a "home entertainment PC." I agree that the case looks good enough for a HTPC, but the Mac mini is not powerful enough for high def and needs more external accessories to be a "decent" HTPC, IMO.

To be a decent HTPC, I think the mini might need:

1. M-Audio Sonica Theater for surround sound and digital out (4.8" x 3.1" x 1.2")
2. Elgato EyeTV 200 for TV tuner/PVR (8.3" x 6.1" x 1.4")
3. An external hard drive might be needed, since SDTV eats about 2 GB per hour. On the other hand, video can also be burned onto DVD.

I priced an equivalent Shuttle for that purpose and arrived at about the same price as a Mini. That's not including the effort required to put the Shuttle parts together and install the OS. The Mini comes with everything ready to go...

Shuttle also sells complete systems with all the parts already together and OS already installed. They even sell Media Player XPCs with surround sound, digital output, TV tuner/PVR, and memory card reader inside the box. These Media Player XPCs run MS Windows Media Center Edition 2005 and include a remote. The cheapest one starts at $950 and includes a 3Ghz Pentium 4, 512MB RAM, 80GB HD, DVD/CD-RW combo drive (Dual layer DVD burner for $32 more), keyboard/mouse, and all that other "media center" shit I mentioned before (surround, digital, DVR, remote, etc).

That depends on your definition of a "home entertainment PC." I agree that the case looks good enough for a HTPC, but the Mac mini is not powerful enough for high def and needs more external accessories to be a "decent" HTPC, IMO.

To be a decent HTPC, I think the mini might need:

1. M-Audio Sonica Theater for surround sound and digital out (4.8" x 3.1" x 1.2")
2. Elgato EyeTV 200 for TV tuner/PVR (8.3" x 6.1" x 1.4")
3. An external hard drive might be needed, since SDTV eats about 2 GB per hour. On the other hand, video can also be burned onto DVD.

I priced an equivalent Shuttle for that purpose and arrived at about the same price as a Mini. That's not including the effort required to put the Shuttle parts together and install the OS. The Mini comes with everything ready to go...

Shuttle also sells complete systems with all the parts already together and OS already installed. They even sell Media Player XPCs with surround sound, digital output, TV tuner/PVR, and memory card reader inside the box. These Media Player XPCs run MS Windows Media Center Edition 2005 and include a remote. The cheapest one starts at $950 and includes a 3Ghz Pentium 4, 512MB RAM, 80GB HD, DVD/CD-RW combo drive (Dual layer DVD burner for $32 more), keyboard/mouse, and all that other "media center" shit I mentioned before (surround, digital, DVR, remote, etc).

On my blog I have posted this:

In my first Build Challenge I set forth a challenge to build a x86 PC to compete with the Mac mini. I didn't get any great systems listed but we did have a good laugh about how sexy Macs are.

I've posted on other sites including The Tech Report and most of the responses tried to compare full sized x86 PC to the mini. I've said how this is crazy. I just want to compare the mini with SFF x86 systems.

That begs the question just what is a SFF system? I can't find a good definition on the web so I'll set my own.

SFF acronym for Small Form Factor: Computer system that is smaller than 925 cubic inches.

SFF system range greatly in size from the Shuttle SB59P at 915 cubic inches to the Cappuccino EZ3 at 63 cubic inches. The Mac mini is on the smaller side at 84.5 cubic inches. The price range also varies greatly as do performance and style. Lets leave out performance since it isn't really an issue for most people in our post megahertz era.

To narrow the challenge follow these criteria:
Size: Must be under 925 cubic inches
Price: Must be under $1200
Style: Must not be ugly

I guess we could argue that last one but I'll accept anything that at least tries to be attractive. Also it has to be ordered built and tested with Windows. Most people don't want to build their own systems and since you can't with the Mac mini it wouldn't be fair to compare it to bare bones systems. Also the systems should match the mini's configuration: 256MB RAM/40GB Hard Drive/Combo Drive.

No single SFF x86 PC meets the mini on all the factors so I'll compare it to three:

Cappuccino EZ3
Size: 63 cubic inches
Price: $823
Style: 5 out 10

Even smaller than the mini. But more expensive and close to ugly.

Shuttle L 5600h
Size: 680 cubic inches
Price: $515
Style: 7 out of 10

Much bigger than the mini. But larger hard drive by default.

Hush Mini ITX
Size: 452 cubic inches
Price: $1159
Style: 9 out of 10

Great looks. But still bigger and way more expensive.

Compare these to the:

Mac mini
Size: 84.5 cubic inches
Price $499
Styles 9 out of 10

And I hope you can see why the Mac mini is the best system overall and the only one that is more than the sum of it's parts. Now for some the fact that it doesn't run Windows means they would never choose it. For others the fact that these systems run Windows means they would never choose them. Let's not have any flame wars over the OS. And I'm leaving out the bundled software that comes with the mini as a factor in the price. But it is a nice plus that you get iLife, iWorks, and Appleworks.

Please post any systems that are better than the three I've listed that meet my criteria.

I was seriously looking at building a Shuttle, but let's compare it to the Mac Mini

For the Shuttle, you can either buy a complete system from them and spend twice as much or build a system. Don't forget the CPU. And the RAM, and the hard drive, and the DVD drive. At this point, it's about the same cost as a base Mac Mini.

Even if you add the Mac Mini DVD burner, larger hard drive and extra RAM, you're still not saving much with the Shuttle. I'm not even going to mention the operating system and having to set it all up...

Please don't counter with a el cheapo price quote from some other scum dealer either, just Newegg... If you counter, make sure it has the same features also...

Or buy the Mac Mini, with the OS installed, plug it in, and have it up and running.

The mini has a DVI output for an HDTV monitor and Firewire for either DV or cable box (MPEG-TS) input. I personally think the Mini price is great for what you get. Especially if you want it in your living room next to your HDTV as a Media Center...

Don't forget to upgrade the hard drive BTO to 80GB (the max size for cheap 1.25GHz model). 40GB is not enough for a DVR. You might also need a cheapo TV tuner with hardware MPEG-2 encode like the EyeTV 200 ($329 at Apple Store). You might need a sound upgrade that provides surround and digital outputs like the M-Audio Sonica Theater ($120).

The total cheapo price for your "Media Center" Mac mini with upgraded RAM, bluetooth, Airport, hard drive, TV tuner/encoder, and sound: $1202.

For that price, a much better "Media Center" machine would be a Shuttle Media Center XPC. Sure, it's not quite as tiny as a Mac mini, but you wouldn't need an external TV Tuner/encoder and external sound card. A K 6200m can be configured with internal TV tuner, digital audio out, Wi-Fi, remote control, etc for less than $1000.

Don't forget to upgrade the hard drive BTO to 80GB (the max size for cheap 1.25GHz model). 40GB is not enough for a DVR. You might also need a cheapo TV tuner with hardware MPEG-2 encode like the EyeTV 200 ($329 at Apple Store). You might need a sound upgrade that provides surround and digital outputs like the M-Audio Sonica Theater ($120).

The total cheapo price for your "Media Center" Mac mini with upgraded RAM, bluetooth, Airport, hard drive, TV tuner/encoder, and sound: $1202.

For that price, a much better "Media Center" machine would be a Shuttle Media Center XPC. Sure, it's not quite as tiny as a Mac mini, but you wouldn't need an external TV Tuner/encoder and external sound card. A K 6200m can be configured with internal TV tuner, digital audio out, Wi-Fi, remote control, etc for less than $1000.

The Mac mini is a nice little computer, but you must shake off the RDF.

Features missing from the Mac mini that some Dells have and some geeks need:

• Bandwidth: 167MHz system bus and single-channel memory controller is slow by today's standards
• Serial ATA: not IDE
• PCI Express x16: not AGP
• Expansion slots and upgradable graphics: Mac mini has no PCI/PCI Express x1 slots and its built-in graphics (entry-level a year ago) is not upgradable
• Space for 2 optical drives
• Better built-in sound
• Front USB/Firewire ports and memory card reader

The Mac mini is a nice little computer, but you must shake off the RDF.

Features missing from the Mac mini that some Dells have and some geeks need:

• Bandwidth: 167MHz system bus and single-channel memory controller is slow by today's standards
• Serial ATA: not IDE
• PCI Express x16: not AGP
• Expansion slots and upgradable graphics: Mac mini has no PCI/PCI Express x1 slots and its built-in graphics (entry-level a year ago) is not upgradable
• Space for 2 optical drives
• Better built-in sound
• Front USB/Firewire ports and memory card reader

The Mac mini is a nice little computer, but you must shake off the RDF.

Features missing from the Mac mini that some Dells have and some geeks need:

• Bandwidth: 167MHz system bus and single-channel memory controller is slow by today's standards
• Serial ATA: not IDE
• PCI Express x16: not AGP
• Expansion slots and upgradable graphics: Mac mini has no PCI/PCI Express x1 slots and its built-in graphics (entry-level a year ago) is not upgradable
• Space for 2 optical drives
• Better built-in sound
• Front USB/Firewire ports and memory card reader

The article refers to the newest line of Shuttle cases that are 99.99% BTX compliant, the p-series. Your link is to the slightly older i-series.

The only difference I think is that the shuttle cases don't have a true intake in the front, but have a kind of gill around the front edge.

There are probably a few other issues. I certainly wouldn't count on plopping in any other micro or pico BTX board into the Shuttle case in the near future. Not that it looks like you have to worry about a huge selection any time soon.

Specs

I've got a SN45G (v2 variant, not the v3 here which only seems to add SATA and change the sound chipset) and it's quite a bit quieter on normal load that my Antec 660AMG that it's sitting on. Occasionally, the fan will go full speed during some heavy compiling, but then it's only slightly louder than the Antec.

In North America alone, Shuttle retails around 10,000 XPC systems per month and now they are getting a demand from consumers throughout the world. Because of the demand, Shuttle has decided to retail their XPC systems to the European and Brazilian markets.

I've had a Shuttle system on my desk for the last two and a half years, and I'm in the UK.

I always liked the idea and looks, but dislike the noise - I don't know how more recent models compare (I have an SB51G) and would be interested to, err, hear...

Cheers,
Ian

The specs look pretty nice, but Shuttle does not list a price on the web site. So, I looked on Google and found a price on ZipZoomFly's web site. For $449, I have to say that is not a bad price at all although I would think other places will have nicer designs for a better price. As for the article, it is not available at the moment, but oh well, it does not seem it is worth looking at anyway judging from the posts here.

Also, I have to agree about the steel case... yikes. I suppose if you add some brackets you can bolt it on your desk to make sure nobody walks away with your new BTX form factor box. :D

Same here. I'm grabbing an SN95G5 and an Athlon64 3500+ as soon as I get another $150 to spare. BTW, I've found that buying the barebones unit and the rest of the hardware from NewEgg saves you a bunch of cash over ordering a pre-built system from Shuttle (down from about $1500 to $1000 in my case).
It's supposed to be nice and quiet too, which is a big plus in my book.

Try Shuttle XPC G5 9500g or 9500m:

http://sys.us.shuttle.com/BuildXPC.aspx?id=1089

Athlon64, Nforce3 Ultra, built-in heat-pipe CPU cooler, etc. etc. I just a built a barebones version, and it's well-layed-out, small, quiet, performs well, and is so far reliable.

Yeah, "perfect gaming" is probably a bit of a stretch given that it has some integrated AGP 4x solution built in with no AGP port, along with the aforementioned Via processor. I'd much rather build out a Shuttle or the like.

There's also the Shuttle K Series, which has a PCI slot and lets you choose your own monitor. At 28dB, it is a little less quiet than the new iMac (25dB).

Not the newest Shuttle XPC (SB86i), which I think is the first PC built using the picoBTX standard. This new Shuttle XPC does not need the ICE liquid cooling heat pipe system because quiet cooling is built into the BTX standard. Slashdot covered the launch of Intel's BTX form factor last Monday (Intel's BTX Form Factor Launched Today).

I think the ICE cooling system is what made Shuttle's small PC's stand out from the competition, but the picoBTX standard will probably make it easy for competitors to make tiny, quiet PCs.

a bit huburistic for the poster to assume he'd start a tidalwave.

Shuttle website here

Hardware: Old Dell optiplex 110 with Pentium III 800MHz, 256Mb RAM, DLink 802.11b PCI wi-fi card. Cost - a favour to a buddy.

Additions: Hauppauge PVR-350, 200Gb Seagate Barracuda, USBUIRT http://www.usbuirt.com/. Cost of additions - £ 216

Wi-Fi with MythTV was hell, PAL TV out with X-Windows was hell, S-Video input with MythTV was hell, EPG download from http://www.bleb.org/tv with MythTV was flaky, IR support for driving my Cable set-top-box was not great.

I tried a copy of XP MCE, but unless you have certified hardware, forget this being easy or stable, so I went on the hunt for Windows based PVR software and came across http://www.gbpvr.com/.

I must say I have been suitably impressed with ease of setup, ease of use, stability and features. Pretty much all of the MythTV features, but a lot easier to set up. Total setup time from blank hard drive to working GBPVR on XP in under 2 hours on above hardware. MythTV took a weekend to have partial functionality working on the same box. The USBUIRT works well with GBPVR, and GBPVR is able to pull EPG from Bleb (Or other XMLTV sources). Main problem now is 256Mb of RAM is just not quite enough for XP... the box is now deemed prototype, waiting for more cash to buy a new barebones system with decent CPU and RAM. Probably go for a Shuttle small form factor like one of these ST62K's http://www.de.shuttle.com/en/desktopdefault.aspx/t abid-72/170_read-2782/

The secret to getting stuff 'off the PC' is to get the PC out of the bedroom/office and into the living room.

Shuttle (http://www.shuttle.com) make rather nifty quiet and attractive PC's that come with built in hardware AC3 encoding as well as high quality TV out. There are other small quiet solutions such as mini-itx form factor PCs but I have no personal experience with those.

I use one of these, networked to a server and with an infra-red remote control, as well as wireless keyb and mouse, with a Digital Terrestrial decoder card built in (for full-on time shifting etc)... the output goes to a normal television and a ceiling mounted CRT projector. The audio (all lovely Dolby Digital) goes through a fibre optic cable into a proper hi-fi amp and the overall effect is that I can watch TV, DVDs, Internet video media and listen to music from absolutely anywhere all by remote control from the comfort of my sofa.

I'm just amazed more people aren't doing this!

But I'm sure as hell not giving up my Opterons...

Not even for one of these?

OK, so it's only an Athlon, but at least it's nearly a cube.

A recent Macformat article covered the Shuttle - they say that they saw the G4 Cube and wondered if they could make a similar PC.

(What WiFi?)

The big problem with Shuttle XPCs is noise. I have a SB65G2, and its fan in incredibly loud -- much louder than the fans in my bigger tower systems.

...but it totally screwed me over because of this problem. I have an Intel Pentium 4 (Prescott Core) and a Shuttle SB61G2 that I bought about five months ago. It just so happens that this particular processor/mobo combo causes WinXP to totally hang.

And as an added bonus, when I tried to update my BIOS to fix the problem, it appeared to work, right up until I restarted and got nothing but a black screen. Thankfully it was all still under warranty, and NewEgg is replacing the Shuttle (with the latest version). All I was out was the $6 for shipping and the week without that computer. Still sucks, but it could have been worse.

done!

http://www.apple.com/imac/

25db

Starting at just $1,299. :)

Shuttle XPC K Series

25db under a full load

Starting at just $899. (w/o monitor)