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PC Competition for the Mac mini?
Omega1045 asks: "When Apple announced their Mac mini last week for US$499, it caught my eye. Wanting to buy/build a small PC for my already cramped breakfast bar, I started pricing out similar PC hardware. The results startled me. It was very difficult to price a PC as small (6.5" x 6.5" x 2") as the Mac mini with comparable equipment cheaper than the Mac mini. Indeed, most of the configurations I found were more than the humble $499 of the Mac, often much more. To match price I often had to configure with a much bigger shuttle-style case. What computers are currently on the market to compete with this? When my wife asks for the 'cute little Mac', what PC can I buy instead that will take up as little space and do as much for the same price (or less)?" How long do you think it will take PC manufacturers to answer Apple's latest entry into the market?
what PC can I buy instead that will take up as little space and do as much for the same price (or less)?
Nothing comes to mind that can do as much for that price, but I'm sure someone will post all the components that they got for some price you'll never be able to find. They won't account for the OS price, the time spend building the computer, or the lack of any warranty.
--
Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things.
How lond do you think it will take PC manufacturers to answer Apple's latest entry into the market?
;-)
:-) why not? It's unix.
I don't think anyone really knows how lond
omega1045: just buy the mini
/* oops I accidentally made a comment, sorry */
How lond do you think it will take PC manufacturers to answer Apple's latest entry into the market?
If the Mini sells well, look for copies in less than a year; if it's not a big hit, the big guys (Dell, HP, et al) won't bother.
"It's a wonderful idea. But it doesn't work." -- Tad Danielewski
Before all of the do-it-yourself system builders leap in, check out this post from Yesterday's discussion:
Leo McGarry said, and I can't think of a better summary,
"Howzabout you buy a computer instead of hand-carving your own microchips?
People love to talk about how you can build a top-flight desktop computer for $3.25 plus two subway tokens and some kind of weird-ass coin that you dug out of your sofa that's got "Røølï" written on it, but what they curiously omit is the fact that if you took all the time you'd spend gathering parts and assembling them and worked a minimum-wage job at some fast food place instead, you'd earn hundreds of dollars. So the real cost of this "It's Shake-n-Bake, and I helped!" special is, in fact, several times higher than the sum of the price tags on the hundreds of inscrutable parts that went into it.
People who say "I can build that for less" are either not bothering to account for their time or just flat-out lying, because the plain truth of the matter is that if they could, somebody already would have, and you'd be able to just go out to a 7-11 and buy the damn thing for half off with the purchase of a medium or large fountain drink."
Three Squirrels
I bought a fanless mini pc from CappuccinoPC. I don't see the exact model I purchased on their site, but it was close to this one:
http://www.cappuccinopc.com/slimpro-sp300-fanless
1.65"H x 5.75"W x 9.84"D
Slightly bigger than the mini-mac, and not as stylish.
They have a variety of other systems, some with fans, some without. Some of them come in a brushed silver color.
They have cases, barebones, and fully functional offerings. I bought a complete PC and it was under $600.
The facts have a liberal bias. --The Daily Show
They haven't really tried to match any of Apple's offerings as far as form factor goes. They didn't try to match the Cube, the iMac, eMac or any of Apple's other offerings. Most people buying a pc for $500 will probably either buy a low end Dell, or build their own.
If any one does decide to try to copy the Mac Mini's form factor, it will probably cost way over $500.
Don't answer him! It's a provocation by some apple zealot!
;)
Robert
PS
Bastard Operator From 193.219.28.162
None, and you can't.
You want something small and functional for your breakfast bar, right? Then just get the Mac Mini and be done with it. It'll play your music, browse the web, and read your email every bit as well as your Windows PC, so what's the problem? Are you planning to play Doom 3 over eggs and bacon?
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
My wife asked me for one thing, how can I give her something else entirely and act all pompous like I went out of my way for her? I like sleeping on the couch.
When my wife asks for the 'cute little Mac', what PC can I buy instead that will take up as little space and do as much for the same price (or less)?
You could just buy the Mac Mini. I know it seems silly, but this is exactly what Apple is hoping you'll do. For iLife, a BSD userland, and some other fun stuff, how can you resist? I know you can, thank you peanut gallery.
I tried pricing something similar a while ago -- look at OEM parts, and consider putting the whole thing into a cardboard box; you can do well with an Athlon 64, a couple hundred megs of memory, and a bulk HD. Size, however.. that's hard. MiniITX doesn't come cheap.
"When my wife asks for the 'cute little Mac', what PC can I buy instead"
Why would you want a PC when a Mac can be had for that low price. What does the PC have that the Mac doesn't?
My comments may be crap...but they are my crap...and I am brave enough to stand by them...Never post as AC!
Falcon Northwest's (more) portable Fragbox. Yeah, it's a custom rig, but you get what you pay for. Good luck upgrading it though.
And now, for a sig that's a complete copout.
Are you actually saying you'd prefer buying a PC over the Mac mini?
As a long-time PC user who's wanted an OS X Mac for simply years, I must ask: Why?
If your wife wants the Mac Mini, then buy her the Mac Mini. Why are you trying to find a lower-quality alternative? You've already stated you cannot find an quivalent Wintel machine at the same cost.
My wife loves her iBook G4....
Please help find my missing daughter: FindSabrina.org
Yes, the Mac mini is a small form factor, and that's part of what makes it so appealing. However, the specs are all far from top-of-the-line: an older processor, 256 MB RAM, 40 GB HD, etc. etc. This all helps keeps the cost down. Trying to build something specifications-equivalent in a PC involves buying a low-end processor and a small motherboard to match (not to mention the other components), and I don't know if it can be done. The integration that Apple can pull together with its hardware enables low-end but tightly integrated computers such as the Mac mini to exist. The componentization of the PC world does not lend itself to a build-it-yourself Mac mini equivalent.
they don't bite
i saw the baby, and the baby looked at me
but as a mac user, i wouldn't touch a PC even if it's $200 cheaper and smaller than mac mini for the simple reason it won't be running OS X.
Not long at all. Gateway is now selling the eMachines with prices from US$359, including keyboard and mouse (which are not present on Mac mini) and a US$499 model including DVD RW drives and keyboard/mouse. Monitors cost US$119.99.
Unless you have a lot of time on your hands and some crazy Mini-ITX skills you're not going to find anything like that for awhile.
Since the MacMini also has a video card that isn't integrated into the mother (logic) board. I have a feeling you're not going to find anything with the type of video processing power either. Decent video cards aren't very small these days.
You go get it.. you dont say "Maybe I can cobble together something managable"
Apple is here for the long term. Will shuttle be?
FYI please dont compare hardware vs hardware becuase you can get something for that price. But when you compare XP Pro, Office, Video and Picture Editing things get expensive. With mac's it's already there.
And the target audience is those who dont upgrade their pc's.. in 2-3 years there may be updated mac mini's to upgrade to but that's beyond the point.
For what you get (software/hardware/size), it is going to be tough to match let alone beat the Mac Mini setup for some time.
When my wife asks for the 'cute little Mac', what PC can I buy instead that will take up as little space and do as much for the same price (or less)?
Are you dead set on running Windows, or do you just not want to support Apple? I would suggest buying your wife the "cute little Mac" and forget the ego trip. It can run Linux, and it comes preinstalled with the best Unix implementation I've seen. Plus, you won't waste your time trying to track down a cheaper PC equivalent. Really, it's okay to own a Mac.
http://www.bynarystudio.com
I really don't think its hygeinic to have windows in the kitchen, all those viruses and worms
;-)
"what PC can I buy instead that will take up as little space and do as much for the same price (or less)?"
I thought Apple users were the ones who will buy a lesser product just because Apple put their logo on it.
This Mini really has changed everything.
.\.\att Clare
Apples and oranges really (no pun intended). You cant just say that Shuttles cost as much as Mac minis, yet are five times the size, and therefore are less bang for the buck. While something like a Shuttle may be a lot larger physically, you also get much more expandability ( you can upgrade the CPU, 2 dimm slot vs 1, a graphics slot for a high end vidcard, an PCI slot for something like a TV-Tuner, the ability to use cheaper/faster HDs vs requiring a notebook drive, etc).
AFAIAC, the super compact form factor of the Mac mini is dearly paid for by sacrificing practically any expandability. If your needs require something ultra small and you dont give a hoot about future upgrades, then the Mac mini should be perfect for you. Otherwise, SFF PCs still have a lot to offer. It all depends on your needs and priorities
Then there is the whole issue about being able to run all the popular software and games...
when your wife asks for the "cute little mac" just get it for her, trying to force your sense of what a good computer is on her is a little selfish.
How would you feel if you asked for a nice BMW and she came home with a similar Toyota?
Those who know, do not speak. Those who speak, do not know. ~Lao Tzu
Ok, here it it. The mini mac seems an expensive PC, for what it offers. But shit, it's a cheap mac! That's the point that people keep missing.
It may well not be the best specc'd machine, but it's a cheap Mac, man! That's why they'll sell like hotcakes. I want one!
...it's all about the software. I know, maybe offtopic but still.
Mac mini comes with the latest Mac OS X, the same operating systems that ship with Apples high-end machines. Nothing like Windows XP Home.
On top of that Mac mini comes with iLife '05 which is iTunes (music jukebox), iPhoto (managing your digital pictures), iMovie (editing HD-quality movies with a _very_ easy to use interface), iDVD (for creating your own DVD:s) and GarageBand (for making your own music). Apart from being a feature-rich application suit, iLife apps work together seamlessly. One cannot just comprehend this until seeing it in action and trying it. It's awesome.
IMHO, in general, the whole Mac-experience has much more to do with software than it is with hardware. It's just impossible to get something like that for (Windows or Linux) PC:s.
Really, it is stylish (nice color, will look good on coffee table), it runs UNIX, can be gotten for cheap now, even included an IndyCam -- and form-factor is not too far from mini-mac.
Only partially kidding!
Paul B.
Of course, I've already build my own Mini-ITX PC, so small isn't so much of a big deal anymore. Thus I stopped tracking prices a little while ago.
I suppose it would be hard for Apple's lawyers to argue that a simple white box is a Design Trademark. But I suspect nobody but Apple will seee any marketability is a simple and tiny plug-and-play desktop system.
This leads me in the direction of a rant about the dearth of the P-M for desktops, but that's for another thread. Still, I think it'll happen eventually, and that's when we'll start seeing x86 clones of the MM.
Why even bother. Superior OS. Superior size. Superior warrenty. Superior Software. Superior Price. Seems like the act of trying to scrape together x86 hardware for something equal is more academic than technically useful. Plus it will never be equal as Mac OS X is very much superior to Windows or Linux(my opinion).
... because when you buy her a PC, you have to get all those viruses from it every week, and have to explain how she can write mails several times because the GUI is so unintuitive, and the mouse just stops working, but after a reboot it works quite fine, thank you, and CD burning doesn't take you a three year old who could do it, but everyone who touches the computer can do it in a snap, and finding files is easy, and install doesn't hang the machine, and (the best of all) she doesn't have to shoo you away everytime she wants to use it.
The problem that PCs have that Apple didn't have with the Mac Mini is heat... Current PC processors, except for Via's CPUs, give out A LOT of heat which is very hard to manage in such a small casing with little or no active cooling. The G4 is ideal for this! Also note that the Minis' power supply is external, something which isn't common place with mini PC cases. In short, it would be VERY had to find a similarly configured PC for the same price with anything smaller then a shuttle-style case... but good luck!
in order to get something of the same size, you're going to have to go mini itx. the majority of the mobos in that form factor will be hovering at or below 1ghz.
if you want something that will perform similarly, you'd have to go for something like this. that's $175 for the motherboard alone, and you're stuck with intel "extreme" gfx and the p4m processor that you'll have to buy separately.
your best shot might be the pentium-m (not p4m) mini-itx combos. those are quite a bit more expensive though (i can't find it on froogle, but the company's site says 674 euros if you buy 100 of them).
with the via mini-itx solutions, you'll get good price/size. with the p-m you'll get good performance/size. as far as i can tell, the mini is the only one where you'll get price/performance/size, which is why i pounced on it right as jobs announced it.
There are lots of Wintel/LinAMD laptops around that come in at the price of a mini + keyboard + lcd + memory + wifi.
Why not consider one of those?
Or just buy the freekin' mini?
...USB/DVI KVM switch. The cheapest one that I've found is this one. NewEgg has the Belkin model for $133 not including cables (another $32 from NewEgg.) I'd like to get a MacMini, but it's not going to be able to replace my current workstation immediately and as such, I need some kind of KVM. Are there any others out there that are cheaper?
Just buy her the Mac. You've already proven to yourself that there is nothing out there that is comparable.
I have a website. It's about Macs.
I was in a similar situation over the holiday. I was asked for advice on purchasing a sff pc for a relative. I tried and tried and tried to convince that person to spend the extra $50 on an eMac. Well, the short of the story is that person spent an extra $150 on an overpriced low-end PC. Mind you this was December; guess how long it took to break?
Unfortunately, this was before the realization of the Mac Mini. Not that it would have made a difference. I hope the person learned a lesson.
I understand that this is Ask Slashdot, and your question is not whether or not the mac is worth it, but I think the following is worth saying. Especially in your case, being for your wife and all, I'll liken it to jewelery. Imagine Tiffany had a great sale. But just to be stubborn, I'll buy the same piece from Dan's Scrap Jewels for a similar (or greater) price. Maybe the quality is the same, but probably not. And on top of that, ladies love the blue box. There's something in a name.
Quick illustrative quote: "Diamonds. She'll pretty much have to."
ascii art
"what PC can I buy instead that will take up as little space and do as much for the same price (or less)?"
Mini-ITX is the way to go. You'll need a motherboard and CPU ($160), a good case and PSU ($70), a laptop HDD ($130 will get you a 60GB Seagate 5200rpm), an optical drive (DVD/CD-RW; $33) and some DDR ($80 for 512M).
Total: $473.
Compared to the Mac Mini:
+ More memory
+ Larger HDD
+ Twice as many USB ports
+ Parallel / Serial Ports
+ Free PCI Slot
+ Audio input
+ PS2 ports
+ Dual Ethernet
- Slower CPU
- Slightly Larger
- No FireWire
Add Linux or Windows.
1. Build a Mac that everyone will want and can afford. 2. ???? 3. Profit! Sorry, it just seems so fitting ;)
It's like that poor kid who asked for an iMac and his well meaning father went, "Oh pooh, I can build you a better system" and went out and founded Hip E. How embarrassing.
If the wife wants a cute Mac mini, and it's cheaper, smaller, and easier than building one, GET IT!
What is wrong with people?
GPL Deconstructed
- It could be portable enough to replace a laptop, at a fraction of the cost. (it's portable enough). Since consider how most people now use laptops. They will have KB / Mouse / Screen at home and office, all they are really transporting is their work environment.
- It can be rolled over (upgraded to newer model) with no heartache (again more so than a ibook or Powerbook.
- It has a sweet spot on price, so it would be more attractive to people who don't need all the power of a G5, or the screen / kb / mouse.
I think it will go a long way on people who like me have the older PowerMac G4's and B&W G3's, so we already have USB periferials and a screen. I also very much doubt that it will fall into the same problems the cube had of being an expensive non upgradeable unit. This is a cheap and powerful unit which allows people to set it up as they like, with things they already have. Anyway, just my 2 cents. Personally I like it, but I don't think i will be getting one for a while yet.When my wife asks for the 'cute little Mac', what PC can I buy
It would be a marvellous feat that your wife does not want a PC with Windows installed. I would definately trust her judgement in asking for one... and go and but the 'cute little Mac'. You will be happy in the end.
I drink to make other people interesting!
Maybe he's a big fan of spyware and would miss out on all of the "fun" if he got a Mac.
I have a website. It's about Macs.
Can you name a single man here on slashdot who wouldn't get hot @ the thought of his wife wanting to use a UNIX-based operating system?
Get her the Mac Mini and get the AppleCare stuff so you won't have to worry about a damn thing in the event terrorists strike. And when she asks for help, you put one arm around her to work the keyboard, reach around her to grab the mouse, and whisper in her ear, "Oh no, baby, Safari is so much better than IE. Let me show you..."
*cough*
[o]_O
You've not been married long, huh?
She wants the Mac. Buy it. Then get yourself a cool little PC, if you wish. She's happy. You're happy. Everyone stays happy. ;-)
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
I mean, if I wanted to piss off PC mini-ITX fanboys, submitting this story is how I would do it- ask as innocently as possible if there is some way I can make a sub-$500 PC as small as the Mac mini.
Which of course excludes all of the cheap-as-sin tower-case Dells ( after rebate ) that people want to talk about when asked the same question with fewer restrictions.
Oh, and don't forget the cost of software, right?
I'm sorry, but just buy her the damn macmini, she will love it just that much more. Not to mention she asked for it.
The thing is, many things Mac users expand with are external devices via USB or Firewire, so the Mac Mini _can_ be expanded in fairly common Mac ways.
A while back compaq came out with a line of computers similar to this called the iPaq (if you want to search on ebay or google, search for iPaq desktop so you don't get all the pocket pc hits). The big thing it didn't have was an optical drive. But I recall it being a pretty small form factor device.
Jherico
What can the average user can do to ensure his security? "Nothing, you're screwed"
What case are you basing this on?
Is it equivalent in size to the Mac Mini's?
It is a reliable PSU, right? Not some $10 taiwanese job that's going to blow out and fry your mobo in 6 months?
What processor and mobo?
Are they as fast as the Mac Mini's?
Does your hypothetical miniPC have a graphics card equivalent to the Mini's Radeon 9200, or is this some Intel Integrated piece of crap that leeches off of system RAM?
Why do you consider a system that's $26 cheaper than the Mini but includes neither an operating system nor software equivalent to the iLife suite to be comparable to the Mini?
And finally:
Who are you trying to kid?
Okay, what is with this usage of "anymore"? Until maybe two years ago I never encountered it without the negatory but now this sort of thing is all over ("more" of something one didn't do before...), as well as usage in the sense of "evermore" (always have, always will). Is this some sort of shift in common usage? A formerly awkward or unusual construction becoming accepted? Before I've encountered it mainly in grammar-mangling and ESL-heavy IRC--not that slash is a bastion of eloquent usage :)
No offense to the parent; according to define: your usage is correct (although implied unusual). Hope the etymology geeks come out to clear up my befuddlement....
I realize that the piece is concentrating on the price point aspect, rather than a toe-to-toe on form factor and hardware, but he points out some interesting disparities:
There's more, including the intangibles of included software and user experience, but it's apparent that the PC company with the highest recorded marketshare growth last year is incapable of fielding a product to match the mini [at this time].
There's little hope that a DIY box will either.
Some days it's just not worth
chewing through my restraints.
Not only is it tough to find a PC with comparable hardware at a comparable size with a comparable price, but you've also got to factor in the software. The Mac Mini comes loaded with OS X, iLife, AppleWorks 6, Quicken 2005 and two games.
There's actually a lot of value there for $499. If you're able to find comparably sized hardware at a comparable price, I'd be very surprised if it came with anything more than the OS already installed.
Not to Troll but.... troll.
Why, oh WHY would you want to buy your wife a PC when she asks you for a MacMini!! WHY?!?!
I'm gonna get one for my wife as soon as they become available here.
Articulos para gente geek: Poleras, linux, libros y mas
imagine a beowulf clu... no, seriously!
a little (cool! as in temperature) box with specs like the minimac has great potential for clustering applications, or not?
Jobs & co are already on record saying margins are similar to the eMac, and I can believe it, since the machine is actually priced quite similarly to an eMac without keyboard, mouse or monitor.
D
What I don't understand is the lack of emphasis on the bundled software that comes with the mac mini (the iLife suite in particular). While most of the talk around the mac mini seems to be on the hardware, 1.25 Ghz is more than enough to edit DV, create/burn DVDs etc. Sure it won't rip through it like a dual G5, but I use a 1Ghz eMac for editing/dvd creation and it's fantastic (admittedly, you will have to up the ram...) but the whole iLife suite is the best thing going for the mac mini. There are no programs that come close to iLife on a PC in terms of power to price ratio. This is where apple will convince 'switchers' to stay switched and should really focus their marketing attention...
Well, that's my AU 2 cents... [US 0.0152 cents]
Does this make my brain look big?
Gee, why not just get the MacMini instead of trying to find something else? You want a small machine that runs UNIX? This is it, it clearly fits your needs but you've got some Mac prejudice it seems. Get over it. You don't have to use the OSX UI if you don't want. Just cover the screen with terminal windows... :)
Mac isn't Mac like it was in the Mac OS9 days. It's just cleverly disguised UNIX now.
It can't be that hard, it's only ones and zeros: http://onesandzeros.tangozulu.biz
"The componentization of the PC world does not lend itself to a build-it-yourself Mac mini equivalent."
The PC104+/EBX form factor is the closest in the PC world
Apple systems are a bit different from Windows machines when it comes to megahertz. OS X (recent versions at least. anything 10.2 or later, with the Mac Mini shipping with 10.3) runs suprisingly well on 'older' hardware. OS X will run just fine on a 500mhz mac with 512mb of ram (128 is minimum, but bump it anyway, trust me). a 1ghz system with at least 512mb is a field day for OS X. My powerbook was top-of-the-line one and a half years ago, with 1 ghz G4, 1gig ram, and a 60 gig HD. That hardware is perfectly capable of doing some of those awesome tricks like having a bunch of hardcore apps running at a time. The final answer is just about any program you throw at it will run excellent, except 'pro' apps, where performance will be acceptable (not great, but if you want to, you can). Example: Video editing with iMovie is WELL within it's abilities, and the step-ups of Final Cut Pro and Final Cut Express should move along pretty quick too ...Assuming you do get a ram bump, which I HIGHLY recommend. Other than that, this looks to be a nonissue.
no because the apple ppc processor generates less heat (from less transistors in the processor) than an x86 based processor, beleive me, if PC manufacturers could make something even close to a minimac it would have been made already.
maybe in a few years when a cpu of comparable speed wont melt in such a form factor but not today and as usual apple is ahead of the curve.
besides do you really want to be nagged every time she cant use expose or a lickable UI? in fact you can even pull some surprise like hiding the computer and intrducting her to the monitor keyboard/mouse
I'd still take the Mac though.
HP Recalls
Dell Recalls
Make sure never to buy from them either, since aparently a company admitting a problem and fixing it for free is too much for you to deal with. While your at it, make sure to sell any vehicle you own, as it is likely that company has also issued recall notices on some of their products. Next up, make sure to avoid the grocery stores. They have recall notices posted all the time too.
Any woman would love something like this on her desk.
A PC maker would never create a mac mini clone, as the engineering efforts would outweigh their bottom line on the system. They would be able to make a slightly larger box, but the temptation to use things such as full sized hard drives is too great a temptation for them.
The other problem is heat, the system will definitely be based around laptop technology for it's size and heat production, which is going to up the price even further.
Ultimately when you work with PC's the Speed, Price, Design triangle applies, I.E in the PC world you can get any two of the three, always at the expense of the 3rd. It only takes an experienced electronics company that is used to making small(iPod, 1" Total thickness Powerbooks, ultra thin displays, sunflower iMac, flatpanel iMac, etc) devices to pull off a good price, reasonable speed and fine design balance.
Another issue is that the moment you get some *useful* software for the low end PC the price bellows outward significantly and the result is that it will cost far in excess of the mac mini which ships with excellent(Award winning even) software, not trials/demos of paintshop pro and crippled OS's that don't let you connect to server volumes.
So now you say, oh we'll just pirate all the software we need from our friend, which to any unscrupulous person is a good tactic to get around that price barrier. The problems don't end there though, the moment you want acceptable video in the unit you will be forking out for a separate video card, as on board video using shared memory is woeful to say the least. This is then going to be run on the cheapest architecture that the PC maker could phathom, so performance of that card is going to be cut up significantly. Finally there are numerous issued to do with your optical drives, for computer manufacturers combo drives work out to be more expensive than individual cd and dvd rom readers. Such as in the low end dell offering, you can't get a combo drive, instead you have to get two individual drives one for reading dvds and one for burning cd-r/rw.
Anyway the point is made, for PC makers the numbers don't make sense, you'll get more cheap offerings, but as with the nature of going-on-the-cheap, the units will always be lack lustre.
I support over 400 Macs at my college. In any given year I have to get warranty repair (we purchase the 3-year warranties) done for less than 8 Macs. We're talking 4% or less failure rate. I don't think you will find comcrap, mini-itx, or hell computer suppliers with a lesser failure rate.
If you are an authorized apple service provider like we are, you can get the apple partscare agreement (APA). It's like the 3-year Apple Protection Plan (APP) warranty, but we do the warranty labor and they provide the parts, and the APA cost is significantly less than the APP
He/she said: In short, hardware failure is nearly impossible on macs from what I've seen, and I've owned more than a few.
//e runs like a champ 1.47MHz or so. I'm a huge apple computer fan but they aren't any better or worse when it comes to hardware, their support is much better than most but I've never had problems with any of them (corporate accounts carry more weight I guess).
I was pointing out that that was obviously incorrect to anyone associated with using Apple Hardware. I've bought 3 systems in the last 3 years and I've got a 67% recall rate. That being said my older apples are much more stable. My Apple
I wasn't saying Dell or anyone was better. In fact the Inspiron 8100 I have is notorious for having a shitty hinge for the screen. As a consequence I'm careful with it. I also have 2 thinkpads that are champs (no problems at all). I'm debating on buying a T42 or R51 at the moment. I just wish they had a Radeon 9700 128MB model instead of 64MB 9600. I would buy another Dell but the 9700 only comes in the 17" which is too damn big and the 9800 doesn't have a centrino processor (those P4 M processors get very warm).
An impressive move by Apple.
There is only one impressive thing about the Shuffle and the Mini-mac that highlights a new marketing move by Apple that might finally allow me to stop hating them - the price.
Apple has always dressed up average, underpowered personal computer components, slapped a white case around them, dropped a proprietary OS on them and sold them at three times the price to people who'll gladly pay three times the price for a computer because it's from Apple and it's "Blueberry" or whatever fruit flavour is popular.
I'd consider buying one of these newer, cheaper products because of the price and functionality. For a desktop PC I'd never own a Mac, simply because I'm a gamer, I need computational power and flexibility with my desktop (I want the choice between *nix and Windows, something an Apple can't provide). Not to mention the range of games available.
Having said that, I think Apple has screwed up with the Mac mini. All they had to do was add a TOSLINK/spdif audio out + s-video for the hi-fi enthusiasts and they would *KILL* the home theatre market. Modded X-box? No. Shuttle IPC? No. Micro-ATX? Nowhere near. It's so small it would run perfectly in a hifi stack, and with the CPU apple put in it, it's only good for video playback or web browsing or little functions like that. Unfortunately, there might not be enough CPU for on the fly video encoding, and it could use an imbedded HDTV tuner.
I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
With that kind of attitude you might as well get the cheapest House-o-Crap PC you can find: you'll need every extra penny you've got for a good divorce lawyer.
Seriously, if your wife asks for anything and you can satisfy that request for as little as 500 smackers, just do it and don't look back. Anything that makes her happy makes your life easier. Trying to cheap out on something like this is a recipe for disaster.
It goes without saying but everyone is forgetting:
It's the software stupid!
The Mac mini is bundles with:
- BSD OS that is VVF (virtually virus free)
- Quicken '05
- iTunes
- iPhoto
- iMovie
- iDVD (if you opt for the Super Drive option)
- Garage Band
- Safari
- iCal
- Mail.app
- Address Book
- iSync
Without the software, the hardware is just something to look at (in the case of the Mac mini) or hide (in the case of most PC cases).
I only came here to do two things; kick some ass, and drink some beer...looks like we're almost out of beer.
I'd like to concede that point. After all it is a waste of my time to take my car into a pro. However when I change the oil myself the plug isn't put in with a 10 foot wrench, and therefore the threads are not striped out, and I therefore don't have to pay extra to fix something they broke. Not to mention that even as a programmer it is a better use of my money to take time off without pay and do the work myself! (mechanics don't make as much as me, but after overhead labor is more than I make per hour)
Broadband connections are cheap in most parts of the world. Where they are not, there are plenty of cheap places to order Cd's of software. About $50/year will buy you subscriptions to FreeBSD and OpenBSD. I assume linux distributions have the same deal. (or you can buy Cd's for less money from unofficial sources)
The problem you run into shopping for Apple hardware isn't that the Apple
hardware is much more expensive than equivalent PC hardware -- it's generally
comparable. The problem is that there's an entire very important class of
system (namely, the expandable midrange system) that Apple never supplies.
Their low-end systems, such as the new Mini, but also the iMac, eMac, and
so on, all have pretty much zero capacity to be expanded, enhanced, or
upgraded. *Maybe* you can add another stick of RAM (but not two or three
more), and external peripherals, and that's just about it. If you want to
add another drive or two or replace the graphics card, you're fresh out.
For that kind of thing -- which is no problem with $400 PCs and is rather
important for anyone with even mild computer-geek tendencies -- you have to
go all the way to the PowerMac tower systems, which start at some thousand
and a half smackers. Granted, they're much higher-end than the $400 PC
and are probably worth what they cost, but that's small consolation if
you don't need all those extra GHz but do need the ability to add an extra
drive next year or an expansion card.
In other words, Apple has to-date never tried to sell anything in the niche
occupied by the Celeron-based mid-tower system.
But in the niches they *do* try to compete in, they generally are fairly
price competitive (all else being equal), and the new mini seems to be a
hit in that regard. To keep myself from buying one, I keep reminding
myself that four computers in my bedroom, three of which are turned on
pretty much all the time, is *enough*, darnit. Also, the one that's not
turned on most of the time is the one that's not x86-family, which is
probably not a coincidence (although, it's a bit on the old side as well
and doesn't have TCP/IP installed, so there are more reasons than just
architecture).
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Give your wife what she asked for, not what you prefer.
Suppose she had a hot friend named Stephanie and you asked for a threesome, and she agreed but instead she brought home her friend Stephen?
How would "This should be just as good, honey," sound to you then, hmm?
I think for this geek hardware project you should start with some sort of PDA like hardware, or any smaller board, perhaps with an embedded linux chip. You could hit the size form factor then anyway. The other alternatives are all too big and still energy hogs, IMO. If you want small, start with small, don't start with big and try to squish it to fit, just ain't happening easy that way. How about something along the lines of a portable CD player, then have it run a live CD distro? You need a distro with small footprint in size so you can load it into ram and still have room left over, then be able to eject the CD and have the drive be back available again, sorta handy, along with USB ports for keyboard, mouse, atomic disintegrator raygun, etc.. There are several decent enough 50 meg or so size distros out now, take yer pick, or use one of the embeddeds. A lot of them are USB drive as well, so there ya go.
Anyway, just thinking along those lines. Seems like it should be possible, the MacMini is small, but not that small. All sorts of phones and pdas are little computers and are smaller than that right now. You have microdrives to play with, flash memory, etc. You don't really want to just make a glorified tiny laptop that isn't portable, you want a very small but fully functional computer,desktop equiv OR possibly portable as well,at least for some functions, so to get to small all the components have to be the "small" stuff you can buy right now. Just needs to put them together correctly, THEN build a box of designed choice around it to make it sharp looking.
she wants it. It's like her saying "Honey I'd like to go to a fancy restaurant tonight." And you say "Ok let's go to MacDonalds."
On a slightly more serious note, the entire Marathon Trilogy has been released by Bungie. Download Aleph One and you're good to go. There are also a ton of extras available as well included higher resolution textures to flex your modern machine and even re-tooled musical tracks.
Brought back a lot of memories for me, and I'm actually enjoying re-playing it with the great new look.
http://logisysus.com/catalog/default.php?cPath=74
http://www.boldata.com/html/minipc.cfm
http://www.cappuccinopc.com/default.asp
those are from the first page of a google search
I can't believe that someone else on Slashdot remembers that.
"Make sure never to buy from them either, since aparently a company admitting a problem and fixing it for free is too much for you to deal with. While your at it, make sure to sell any vehicle you own, as it is likely that company has also issued recall notices on some of their products. Next up, make sure to avoid the grocery stores. They have recall notices posted all the time too."
Don't post on Slashdot either. They recall posts.
FREE Photo iPod!
Yeah - plug in a USB three button scroll wheel mouse and it just works.
Just because they ship with their one button mouse does not mean that they've hamstrung the whole system.
I use an iOpti Junior from Macally - but there are a ton of standard USB mouses you can use - OS 9 and OS X too.
(only thing I miss is clicking the scroll wheel and moving up or down to quickly scroll through documents and such)
If you didn't know, you can do this, to some extent. You click the scroll wheel and then move the mouse in the direction you want. Not quite as seemless as it is on Winderz, but functionally its basically the same.
(I tried this under Camino, not sure if it works under the other browsers).
Perl - $Just @when->$you ${thought} s/yn/tax/ &couldn\'t %get $worse;
"Honey, I know you wanted to get laid tonight, but instead, you're in the doghouse, retard."
Why did you even suggest this thread again?
ShortFormBlog: Writing a little. Saying a lot.
I might as well do something nice in return for all the sex I have had with her.
I am an MS shill who is shitting in his pants about the prospect of a highly afordable mac i dont really have a wife because i have an IQ of 40 im ugly as hell and i weigh 500lbs. In an attempt to please my evil satanic master (Monkey boy) i have concocted an imaginary story where my wife wants a mini mac ( see the part about not having a wife ) and how i am on this grand technical quest to find a pc for this imaginary wife so that i can get that for her instead. in this imaginary world my imaginary wife would have to have an IQ of 30 and therefore truely want a pc. My grand attempt at FUD for my master would work best on /.
Dear MS Troll
Please go back to your brige under the freeway and shoot yourselfe with a bazooka. cut off you balls so there is no chance that you could ever even accidentally procreate. idiots like you are wasting valuable air that other things could actually use ( gestating maggots come to mind ). i have a real wife and i bought her an ibook she loves it and uses it all the time. she is compleatly confident with it and she has never had a virus spyware or needed me to fix it. originally she wanted a PC laptop but i lent her my PB for a week and she decided she wanted a MAC to. i intend to either buy or convince all the members of my family to buy one of these so that i dont have to put up with repair calls. also i showed my wife that in order to do all of the things that you can do on a mac you would have to pay about 400$ more you would have to essentially find a free pc to campare the two. the new mac mini comes with
no spyware
no viri
ilife
iwork
UNIX
omnigraffle ect
and 16 other professional grade applications and utilities.
peace of mind
there is no pc that can even come close to maching this deal.
if you actually had a wife you would respect and honer her and get a mac. but please built this imaginary PC for your imaginary wife. and use it to get pr0n off the internet because that is the closest you will ever get to intimacy with a real woman.
I'm suprised no-one's mentioned Dell yet. I think they'd be the first to try and come out with a commercial mini machine to play against the macMini, or would that be too blatent, even for Mike (Dell)?
I personally just dont think a lot of companies will do it because of the engineering required, Apple's engineers must have put some loooong hours in to get all that stuff to fit in there so nicely.
... but pretty close already: www.kingyoung.com.tw
Apple will have the lead in this for a couple of months, though (nothing unusual).
A geek is a geek is a geek is a hopeless non-empathic cheap bastard who doesn't know his luck.
Your wife ASKS you to buy A SPECIFIC COMPUTER. And you think that's a problem. You're going to go to all the trouble to buy her something "better" - read: not what SHE asks but what YOU want to buy.
Dude, you've got a problem, and it's not necessarily with computers.
I think, therefore I am...I think.
He meant the fact that when you click the scroll wheel on most Windows apps, it goes into "scroll mode" where moving the mouse a little up or down will start it scrolling in that direction (for things like documents or webpages).
Using Mac OS X (at least with Safari) it doesn't. I'm going to check now to see if MS Office for Mac does, but I suspect not.
(It's the sort of thing that a third party app could probably take care of... and Firefox might have that behaviour already - not sure).
Why should every application developer either do without spell checking, or each have to develop their own incompatible system?
Applications may display text with which users interact. It may be in English, or Italian, or Dutch. Whatever language it is in, users may want to check spelling of text. Thus, the text object, under the hood, let's users interact with it. Making each development team responsible for spelling means that it will either not be done at all (which is a shame), or be done inconsistently (which is equally unfortunate).
Spellbound may be fine. Firefox with it may be better than Firefox without it. Doesn't the very fact that Spellbound was written indicate a more pervasive problem?
I hope you're recently married. Your wife asks a simple thing and you're going to
1) not give her what she wants
2) take away quality time to give it to her
3) condemn her to your support for everything, which includes the software she doesn't get - which she wanted
instead of just giving her what she wants because it
1) is the cheapest option
2) is the easiest option
3) is the only option that includes everything she asked for
Only love will make this an endearing feat, my superman...
I think, therefore I am...I think.
Cheap, 'equivalent' PC that's only 1.5 times larger than Mac mini..........$770
installing all the software you need to make it 'equivalent' to the Mac......bloody ages
No nookie for a month when your wife finds out what you got her..........priceless
Cig? No, thank you.
Really insightful.
Ever heard of Macs being easier to support?
"Seriously, I have a couple of apps that I really like on my PC that I would not have on a Mac."
Like?
And then I thought the computer is supposed to be for your wife?!
I dunno, the same what I do when any PC breaks, I guess? If I have any sort of warranty I better not touch it. If the HD is broke I'll replace it. What exactly do you mean? Or are we talking about software here? Well show me any system as stable and easy to set up as the Mac OS X.
In Linux virtual desktops are also third party applications. Heck, the whole distribution is made up of third party applications!
I bet that doesn't bother you with Linux, so why should it bother you when you're using OS X?
I understand where you're coming from, but a while ago I realized that it's ok to use third party apps in OS X too, because it doesn't matter, as long as it doesn't break anything.
Apple has always dressed up average, underpowered personal computer components, slapped a white case around them, dropped a proprietary OS on them and sold them at three times the price to people who'll gladly pay three times the price for a computer because it's from Apple and it's "Blueberry" or whatever fruit flavour is popular.
Proprietary OS? (I guess this technically had a proprietary OS, but I don't think it really fits with what you mean.)
Average?
Underpowered?
Three times the price?
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
[Expandability] is no problem with $400 PCs and is rather
important for anyone with even mild computer-geek tendencies
Careful there, "computer-geek" is a pretty general word.
I make a living programming and I love to screw around with my computer, but I hate screwing around with hardware. I want a computer that Just Works so I can play with robots or writing a laser-pointer tracker or whatever I feel like doing this particular day of the week. I don't like fooling around with internal components and I don't like having to repair my OS. For this reason, I own a Mac.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
Just buy the Mac Mini dude.
-- Cliph/ff http://chicks-dig-unix.net/
"When my wife asks for the 'cute little Mac', what PC can I buy instead" Well to start with, a more comfortable sofa bed or bigger doghouse. Sheesh.
My Photography - http://ian-x.com
The Deathlings (comic) - http://thedeathlings.com
what special things do you need a PC for, that the Mac Mini can't do?
I mean, what do you want to do at the breakfast bar? Read the daily news, check email and look at some recipes? If the Mac Mini can't be beat, why are you trying to fight it?
I would have thought a Mac Mini would be perfect!
A friend of mine pointed me to these units
http://www.cappuccinopc.com/default.asp
This is a comparable headless system that supports Windows and Linux.
It seems that no one knows about them but they've been in business before Mac-mini was conceived.
I guess they do not want to compete!
... without thinking about alternatives? What about shed does not know any better in this particular field of expertise?
It is a bit rich to reach such devastating conclussions without knowing all the context.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Don't hassle dude. Just buy the Mac.
What is more sexy?? A BSD based Mac Mini with bash, a fast processor, iLife, DVI out to RCA, real video card and more at 5.5x5.5 or a Win Longhorn Bathroom edition 6.5x7.5 with no DVI??
Huh? Tell me! I mean really.
Shame about that wife comment made in the original... Just to echo whats come before... 1 What's the problem with cute when its functional (moreso why don't we demand better design?) 2 One ought sit back and realize that your wife may know what she's talking about.
[flamethrower on]
How about sucking it up and getting her the Mac Mini? Afraid it won't integrate with your Windows XP Home network or something? Afraid you might like it better than your own machines? Afraid your wife might like it better than you? Get over it.
If she does ask for a Mac, and you buy her a PC instead, it really won't matter what size it is, because it'll be sleeping in the bed with her, while you're sleeping in the garage. Think about all the other times she asked for a diamond and you bought her a bigger CZ instead.
[/flamethrower off]
Do not touch -Willie
...for a similarly priced/specced/sized/sized (though not quite the same size :P) ...is an xbox
/gets coat
There, I've said it
Paul Thurrott says that the Mini's competition is eMachines and Compaq and that both of them will squash Apple like a bug. Had a good laugh at that this morning.
When was the last time you saw you parents gutting your video recorder to upgrade it? The idea of plugging in a new accessory with a cable is much more reassuring to most non-techies.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Could always run VirtualPC.. use your PC software on that sexy Mac hardware.
Though I find most people who try Mac's quickly learn that there is a >= Mac product for most windows software. Often >.
I found VirtualPC is really a security blanket.
Once you play with iPhoto, iTunes, iMovie... and see that there are quite a few great products out there.
Those ugly awkward Windows Apps no longer have a place.
miss is clicking the scroll wheel and moving up or down to quickly scroll through documents and such
;-)
You might be interested to know about the Microsoft Intellimouse software for mac - it does all this and more and is freely downloadable as I recall.
I shouldn't think it's Microsoft mouse specific either...
Exactly. A lot of us geeks would rather express our geek sides by dicking around writing code and making our computers to *intersting* things -- not by shelling out bucks for the latest and greatest XYZ card to give me 64000 channel surround sound or whatever.
Personally, I feel great pleasure in optimizing my code. Just this morning I've got my robotics simulator ( in this case doing quadruped simulation, with many motors, sensors and whatnot, but it can simulate just about anything you can describe to it ) running at 100 Hz physics and 30 fps using less than 10% CPU -- on my meager 12" powerbook. Now, *that* is being a geek. Soon I'll be able to simulate swarms of robotic spiders, each with its own brain and with all with realistic physics. And all for fun.
I think a lot of people today mistake consumerism for geekery. A lot of people I hear being referred to as "experts" are really just people who know how to go to CompUSA or whatever and buy a card, stick it in, and run the windows installer for its driver. [sarcasm]Way to go. That's some HARD stuff. You must be really, really l33t[/sarcasm]
Rant over.
lorem ipsum, dolor sit amet
The costs should include software - I think I'm right in saying that the mini comes with iLife, i.e. video editing, photo editing, iTunes and DVD authoring (with the superdrive). If you're into these consumer apps, neither Linux or Windows come anywhere close to their functionality, reliability and ease of use.
I've noticed that Apple users are EXTREMELY VOCAL and emotional about their favorite platform, while PC owners seem more level headed.
You cannot reason with Mac people. That's like arguing with a Christian about prayer in school. Benchmarks mean nothing, because all they talk about is the experience and the unmeasurable qualities that it has.
They are irrational. They're like cat people- you know the type I'm talking about- the kind that is a slave to their cat because they think on such an irrational, emotional level that they think their cat knows something that they don't. They are emotionally a basketcase, and are likely to attend political marches and are likely homosexual.
Slashdot is a haven for ultra-liberal Macintosh loving people. They are the psuedo-geeks. They're not the real geeks who are good at science, they're the wannabe geeks who play Dungeons and Dragons, role playing games, watch Star Trek and were in the A/V club in school.
I have a nice AMD64 system now, I put together new for $400. Not $999-$1500 like those AMD64 systems are advertised in some stores.
Take a barebone (e.g. AOpen XC Cube), add an ;)
AMD Athlon XP 2200, 256 MB DIMM, a DVI compatible
graphics card, a 40 GB HD, and a DVDRW and you
end up close to $500. You have to take the
cheapest parts available, but that's what
Apple is doing anyway
I tried to get my wife to use my powerpook and she hated it because quicken sucked compared to the windows version.
See here for a toaster sized box running Linux,. html
http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS5621664618
$160.
geez. whiz.
They Live, We Sleep
As a general rule? Yes, do whatever the wife says.
It's a lot easier to buy a replacement computer than find a replacement wife.
And, who's to say he knows anything more than she does about this particular field? He didn't give one reason why the Mac mini would be unsuitable for his wife to use.
If you ask your wife for a blowjob, and she gives you a copy of Hot Granny Pr0n Action instead, how would you feel?
--R.J.
Electric-Escape.net
According to the apple store website, OSX, iLife, AW6, Quicken come to $356. Throw in another $45 for the two games.
98 bucks for the hardware.
Now, build me a comparible machine.
Wake up.
"However, if your reason is just it won't be running OS X, you are a dumb fanboy." That counterargument only works if you're assuming MacOS X is worse than Windows. Which, as any week's worth of Windows security alerts will tell you, it is not.
--R.J.
Electric-Escape.net
My niche is "a computer that always works reliably."
Macs fill that very nicely.
--R.J.
Electric-Escape.net
It seems you're willing to put up with "bad engineering" as long as it's not Apple?
I think that you're in the minority. I've had a cube I bought used for about three years with no problems. Most of the people I know who are Mac-Heads just don't have nearly the same hardware failure rate that my PCs do. Power Supplies, Hard Drives, Motherboards--I've had plenty of failures on those. The laptop I'm using right now is being RMAed this week because two of the USB ports have died and the left-click on the touchpad is flaky.
I think it's reasonable to say that the hardware failure rate, on a whole, is far less with a product that has a consistent, well-tested set of components -- as opposed to the folks who slap together whatever is cheapest in Korea this week.
This is the advantage that Apple really has from a reliability perspective. Couple that with them being in full control of the operating system that supports the hardware they design and others just can't compete. That's why people buy them even though they WERE more expensive.
I am a tweak by nature. I love to put together PCs and completely rebuild my Home Theater PC about once every year and a half. When it comes to what I use to monitor my UPS and notify the other systems to shut down after a power-outage? The Cube--the only system I have that runs for months on end with no lockups or other problems. While *nix is great, I think OS X gives you the best of both worlds -- the reliability of *nix in a better-than-windows GUI.
and the 9800 doesn't have a centrino processor (those P4 M processors get very warm).
I own the i9100, it's not even a P4-M chip. It's a complete normal P4 Prescott running on a 865G desktop chipset. The only speedstepping it does is BIOS controlled when on battery and it is mandatory. Probably to avoid trying to pull so much power from just the battery. The mobile 9800 is just a desktop R420 chip slapped onto a mobile board. Great gaming system though. I got it to LAN with some friends a few times a month.
For a real portable system, I have the Powerbook. It has never had a critical issue affect it. Sure, since I was an early adoptor of the 15 inch aluminum, I got to deal with the white spots. But that consisted of me taking it to a local reseller and drooling over the G5 while they replaced the screen in 20 mins. The iBook logic board problem is really the only recent issue from Apple that could cause downtime, and the fact that they are extending warranty coverage on that particular issue is great.
Thank you, Eric Cartman.
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
When i heard about the mac mini, i wondered if it would be a nice gift for my g/f.
well, it isnt, because she needs a good MS-Word replacement with support for portuguese.
But MS does not translate the Office for Mac to portuguese, even though the windows version is translated since version 6.0
You're a smart guy, you're following this thread clarifying questions as you go and have posted alot of interesting points previousy...
Why the resistance to the mac?, you posted an interesting comment on your "ipod conversion"... Why did your wife want one anyway? Just the box? Has she used a mac before and didn't like it?
Would it be a real hassle to discover mac os as well? Im sure you can figure out any network/compatability issues (if I can anybody can) and the basics differences of the GUI are no real scare. Add the excellent FREE software and lack of security etc... what if you really enjoy the thing?
I dont want to ram more mac down your throat (like you mentioned before - you've been around... but you did ask and there aren't many windows replies to the "it can't be done" mac fans - myself included) but try it- you might like it.
Good luck either way
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." ~The Honorable Daniel Patrick Moynihan
In my experience with women (I'm not married, hence the 911 outside, but have a girlfriend)
GIVE THEM WHAT THEY ASK FOR.
If she wants the cute little mini-me apple thing, get her exactly that one.
You are wasting your time fiddling around with PC's trying to get the same configuration in the same package, when that's not what she's asked for. She'll be disappointed and think you're not listening, which you're not.
It's like she's asking for a diamond necklace and you show up with rocks.
Do yourself a favor, get the mini-me and get the "high-end" one. You position youself that was as not only getting her what she wanted, but going the extra mile and getting the best one.
Life will be soooo much easier, you won't spend hours on the phone sourcing parts, worrying about heat, fiddling with installs, the mac will just work and look good while it's working.
Style my friend, style.
That right you heard it from Timmy
flame on!
timmyshow@hotmail.com
I switched my wife to a Mac because I was tired of fixing her system. Now she has an iBook with everything she needs and more. No more getting stupid questions on how to do stupid stuff. Mac mini: 500 Additional stuff: 300 Never hearing: "what does this blue screen mean?": Priceless
Buy It!!
It's her computer not yours.
Regards,
Ryan Pritchard
Fun Extends All Basic Life Expectancies
Can you honestly say you've never had any desire to have a second hard drive
in your computer, or add an internal Zip or Jazz drive or DVD-RAM or whatever?
Expandability isn't all just about tinkering (though I must admit I have been
known to tinker); it's about having the components you want.
That's available in the Mac world, but you gotta get a PowerMac.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
I don't know about you, but it takes me less than 30s of my time to download a distro. I can't say I've seen anyone sit there watching every bit coming over the ether. Most people I know start a Download and go on to something else. Then there is the little factor of how much money are most people with day jobs making in the evenings while browsing the web? At 30seconds to 15 minutes of a persons time to start a D/L, I'd say that is fairly negligable. Even to Oracle consultant that gets paid $130/hr is more than likely not going to loose that much in the time spent.
01010100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01101101 01111001 00100000 01010011 01001001 010
Why yes, I can.
When it comes to hard drives, I've always replaced the older one. Keeping them both around gets into partitioning headaches and usually doesn't gain you too much more space.
I've never had the least desire to add a zip, jazz, or DVD-RAM drive. If I did, I could get an external one and it would work just as well as an internal one.
Right now, my PowerBook has all of the components I want. If I want something more in the future, chances are I can find a version that I can plug in to a port on the outside.
Mod down posts with a "Free Mac Mini/iPod" sig, they're spam!
Based on living in a Mac-PC household, my take is that the mini will be suitable for a good many of those in the market for a SFF box. It's no gaming machine, obviously, and that matters to those gamers driving the multi-billion dollar gaming industry. But SFF gaming PCs, it should be noted, can be very loud. In the PC world, much message board agonizing and indeed even entire web sites are devoted to quieting the damn things (and their large boxen brethern) down. My SFF PC sits in a closet to dampen its roar.
But if your gaming needs are nil or satisfied elsewhere (or by old-school games) then the mini ought to do very nicely. Without having to go in the closet. ;-)
On my blog I have posted this:
In my first Build Challenge I set forth a challenge to build a x86 PC to compete with the Mac mini. I didn't get any great systems listed but we did have a good laugh about how sexy Macs are.
I've posted on other sites including The Tech Report and most of the responses tried to compare full sized x86 PC to the mini. I've said how this is crazy. I just want to compare the mini with SFF x86 systems.
That begs the question just what is a SFF system? I can't find a good definition on the web so I'll set my own.
SFF acronym for Small Form Factor: Computer system that is smaller than 925 cubic inches.
SFF system range greatly in size from the Shuttle SB59P at 915 cubic inches to the Cappuccino EZ3 at 63 cubic inches. The Mac mini is on the smaller side at 84.5 cubic inches. The price range also varies greatly as do performance and style. Lets leave out performance since it isn't really an issue for most people in our post megahertz era.
To narrow the challenge follow these criteria:
Size: Must be under 925 cubic inches
Price: Must be under $1200
Style: Must not be ugly
I guess we could argue that last one but I'll accept anything that at least tries to be attractive. Also it has to be ordered built and tested with Windows. Most people don't want to build their own systems and since you can't with the Mac mini it wouldn't be fair to compare it to bare bones systems. Also the systems should match the mini's configuration: 256MB RAM/40GB Hard Drive/Combo Drive.
No single SFF x86 PC meets the mini on all the factors so I'll compare it to three:
Cappuccino EZ3
Size: 63 cubic inches
Price: $823
Style: 5 out 10
Even smaller than the mini. But more expensive and close to ugly.
Shuttle L 5600h
Size: 680 cubic inches
Price: $515
Style: 7 out of 10
Much bigger than the mini. But larger hard drive by default.
Hush Mini ITX
Size: 452 cubic inches
Price: $1159
Style: 9 out of 10
Great looks. But still bigger and way more expensive.
Compare these to the:
Mac mini
Size: 84.5 cubic inches
Price $499
Styles 9 out of 10
And I hope you can see why the Mac mini is the best system overall and the only one that is more than the sum of it's parts. Now for some the fact that it doesn't run Windows means they would never choose it. For others the fact that these systems run Windows means they would never choose them. Let's not have any flame wars over the OS. And I'm leaving out the bundled software that comes with the mini as a factor in the price. But it is a nice plus that you get iLife, iWorks, and Appleworks.
Please post any systems that are better than the three I've listed that meet my criteria.
Someone beat you to the punch and has written up a blurb about his machine.
But in all honesty, I agree with the hundreds of other posters who say that it will never measure up to the Mac Mini, especially in price. This is the reason why I've mentioned that Apple Mac Mini sales will cannibalize sales. At the same time Apple will see falling or stagnant sales on its own Airport Express and AirTunes devices since the Mac mini, presumably, can do all of that and more.
Linux at home
Is that they own the OS + make the hardware - ultimatly Steve jobs decides how much of the cost of each piece of hardware is Mac OS X. A luxury that PC OEM's don't have.
Alex
Let me start by saying, I am Microsoft Certified, and am currently attending night school for my Linux certs. I work in IT and live and breathe computers. That being said, I think a lot of people are missing the point of the Mac mini. Everyone has commented on the hardware, the board design, the expandibility, the specs, etc. The Mac has never really been about the hardware, it's about the software. Windows Movie Maker does not hold a candle to iMovie. Windows Media Player does not hold a candle to quicktime, and there is no equivalent of iPhoto on the PC. TextEdit is wayyyyyy better than Notepad... do I need to go on? After you get done pricing the hardware, start building a software package to make the PC half as user friendly as the Mac... there's no way you'll do it for less than $1000.
-- I speak only for myself
People that make gross overgeneralizations about hardware companies and repair issues make me smile. I've had five Apple computers since 1988 and have never had a single problem with any of them. (No, I lied. I wore out the mouse button on my Beige G3. They sent me a new mouse.)
I've had to diagnose/repair my fair share of Gateway systems for friends over the years, but I don't blame Gateway for poor engineering. I figure it must just be coincidence.
I thought about getting amac mini... I started to defend my decision to buy it...
.exe lamer" download link (WHICH I actually appreciate, because try downloading something off apache.org... you go all the way into the app area, app, app version.. hit download and it gives you a page containing ALL downloads... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH...... and trying to decipher which version s(alpha/beta/nightly/release) from a blaster http idr list of filenames... DAMN!!!
I don't really want to use iTunes... I like picasa... I haven't got a digital video source greater than a webcam... I like graphics (a few open souce svg apps, gimp, and the deaded PS) and I like using *insert-KDE-or-Gnome/X.org/GNU/Linux* [which is what I think it should be called...] (I LIKE USING LINUX, sue me if I didn't say I like installing the kernel source to upgrade my graphics card driver... ok it is sh blahblahblah.run... but still) so I have a feeling for other OS's.
I just don't want to become *that* guy complaining about lack of OS-X/XI support.
I am sure it has bucket loads of apps, and loads of open source stuff runs with little changes etc, but I am such a lazy/busy person, I just like to wallow in always having my version as the "if you dont know what to choose, choose this
rant over... just, yes I want a mac... why? well probably to play with the konfab shizzle... but I need to look long term, and that means loads of neat apps and extra stuff my existing 'pute can't do... when I upgrade, I will have an oppourtunity to try new hardware, but always be wary of my time to hope to a new architecture.
If they sold a bare mac mini (no HDD or ram) I would snap one up, and use it as a test fun machine... maybe I would love it... who knows...
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
So one should do wathever wife says ... without thinking about alternatives?
:)
If you want to get on the "you always argue with me" merry-go-round you're welcome to... but unless she's obviously completely off base you're far better off just doing it her way.
That's why my wife's got a Windows box, even if I think she'd be better off with a Mac.
all women are irrational, inflexible bitches who don't understand the value of money and will use any thriftiness as grounds for divorce
No, because an irrational inflexible b-word who doesn't understand how to get along with his wife is almost certainly playing tag with the divorce fairy elsewhere in his relationship as well.
I disagree that the G4/1.25 is "only good for ... little functions", but that's beside the point. And people don't spend extra for Macs because of the hardware, they spend extra because of the software...
But, anyway, what do you want to bet that Apple doesn't come out with a "Media Center" edition of the Mac mini within a year?
Now now, they've typically only been twice the price of hardware-comparable PCs. This one's maybe 30-50% more, which is pretty remarkable for Apple.
(I want the choice between *nix and Windows, something an Apple can't provide)
No, Apple provides a compromise between UNIX and Windows, that's nearly as good as the best of UNIX and far beyond the best of Windows. I'll take a loaf and a half instead of a choice of two half-loaves, but maybe you like rebooting into the alternate OS more than I do...
You can't buy a comparable PC to a Mac mini for any amount of money, even if you give up the cute little box.
Because you can't run Mac OS on a PC.
People keep thinking of Apple as a hardware company. They're not. They're a software company that bundles hardware with their software. People pay a premium for tha hardware because that's what it takes to get the software.
You can't duplicate the Mac Mini by putting the Cappucino in a pretty box, any more than you can duplicate the iMac by putting a PC in a fruity case.
If you don't want the software, you will never understand why people buy Macs.
If you do want the software, you will never understand why people keep ricing-up their PCs and sticking the same lousy software inside them.