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More Analysis Of Pentium M Desktops
Hack Jandy writes "The Pentium 4 has gotten enough attention lately as a slow, over heated monstrosity; but does Intel's Pentium M fare any better? Intel's decision to introduce the Pentium M as a desktop processor (East Fork) may not be all it's cracked up to be. Sudhian has an in-depth article, and Anand has benchmarks (on Linux!). I will stick with my Athlon 64, thank you very much."
I will stick with my Athlon 64, thank you very much.
You're welcome.
PowerPC?
First Post Bios check?
WhatMeWorry?
So is Pentium M just a bunch of failed Pentium processors that didn't fare well in the assembly line? Sort of like Celeron... cough cough.
My experience with Pentium M is that it clocks down BIG time if you don't plug in the power cord. So much so that the laptop is virtually useless. YMMV.
Yea, AMD Pulled ahead really fast.
Dashboard Widgets
n/t
I've gotten old enough that I no longer thrill at the idea of building my own system. I'm looking for something quiet, very reliable, and inexpensive. Performance comes behind these critiera.
Basically I'm looking for the Dell equivelant in the AMD world, someone who cranks them out in great quantities. I checked out HP etc, wasn't blown away. Also open to a smaller shop if they come with a good recommendation (and without the insanely gaudy cases, no rounded plastic please).
When I browsed through the test, I headed directly to the database section and I was positively surprised, P4M excels in this area.
In my computing I actually find hard disks to be a bottleneck. I use databases all the time and any improvement in that area is a plus.
I bet Gentoo fanboys will lament on processor's performance while compiling, I think it has more to do with the lack of the optimisations yet and what's even more important I don't compile much, I just use the computer.
Overall I find this processor to be a very attractive solution for a typical desktop computer.
It's a great base for a SFF or even smaller computer with more than adequate computing power.
http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=dot hangaming&page=1
and it shows how differently it performs compared to things like compiling a kernel in linux. According to the review, it competes almost as fast or sometimes as fast as the A64 in some games.
It's still an impressive cpu and better than tha bacon-cooker (prescott).
I have no clue why would anyone buy this. I mean Pentium M is great for laptops because of the lower power consumption but there is very little to gain from it on the desktop. It is very overpriced for a standard workstation onfiguration where somone dosent need power. I mean it saves power but not enogh to make it worth the trouble.
That the Pentium-M isn't optimised at all for what they were benchmarking (apart from some stuff compiled with a non-commercial intel C compiler).
While I'll be one of the first to put my boot into intel and their behind-the-market sloppy overpriced inefficient CPUs, it would be at least fair to do it on a reasonably even playing field.
I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
Playing games and looking at pr0n would be my dream job.
Now might be my chance to break into the lucrative pr0n game beta tester job market.
With the advent of 64-bit OS-X, the Mac G5 platform is the only serious contender for my desktop. And I would have thought that the tech-savvy readership of this website would feel the same.
Every real geek has owned a dual proc. Intel machine.
Was unfortunately left out. I mean, Athlon 64 makes a fine Pentium 4 competitor when running a legacy 32-bit operating system, but it's so much more. Those cool extra registers you get in 64-bit mode make the thing just scream!
And no, the intel EM64T stuff isn't even competing in the same league, 40-45% slower with 40% more GHz is what I've seen in real-life workloads (heavy numbercrunching). For some other types of loads it does just about as well as the a64/opteron, though.
Revised x86_64 support (possibly in the pentium m core and in the same price range as the new 90nm a64's) and Intel has a chance. That and Microsoft delaying 64-bit Windows for a couple more years.
Unsafe at any speed?
Great quote
"Frankly, Intel, this is getting pathetic"
If you look at the front side bus speeds of the Pentium M, they're low. Very low, in fact, at 400MHz. Certainly not in the 800MHz -1066MHz range that's required for a lot of operations. A 1.5GHz P-M is about the equivalent of a 2.4GHz P4 Northwood UNLESS it comes to data-intensive operations requiring FSB access, and then it gets constricted.
Let's reserve judgment on the P-M's future unless and until Intel builds a higher FSB speed or unless the biggest priority is low overall system power.
Never have figured out if the Pentium 3 or 4 flags are what you are supposed to use. Forms seem to be split down the middle of calling it one or the other. I used the Pentium 3 config without any issue, but I know there is someone out there who knows....
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
Shouldn't that be "echo 600000 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_setsp eed"?
-73, de n1ywb
www.n1ywb.com
Though AMD Atlon may be rising as a global giant, Intel's Pentium processors still holds a major share of the market primarily because the large choice of processors it offers, the number of years it has been in business and compatibility with a large number of OS and softwares not to mention hardwares. I believe that Intel is going to stay in business atleast for some more years. What do you think?
It seems to me that midrange AMD is far better than midrange Intel for games -- so this is probably why the impression "AMD rules for games" is out there. Buncha kids with no money think it is.
But my 3.2 P4 Northwood running at 3.52 with 6800GT seems plenty competitive -- with everything except the FX 55, which is *extraordinarily expensive*.
It seems that AMD is better at the low end and the extreme high end, but the "ordinary" high end (3500+ and 3.2 P4), Intel and AMD are about the same. Plus with things like MPEG encoding and compiling, which is also important to me, P4 beats even the AMD FX.
So AMD is only better than Intel at the extreme high end and the low end. But the low end isn't worth playing at, unless you ain't got no money.
So in short it seems to me that in the real world a 3.2@3.52 P4 is plenty great for games.
Or would an AMD 3500+ give me a "smoother feeling" experience?
Opteron is better than Xeon in most ways that matter. Itanium, even with all its FP muscle, has to be given away. Has Intel peaked?
-- "Makes Little Debbie look like a pile of puke!" - Moe Szyslak
I wonder if that sudhian is carring a 'sploit. I went with javascript enabled (loaded both at the same time though, so it *could* be anandtech). Fortunately, running Linux, there is no fscommand protocol, but if that fs stands for filesystem - then boy am I glad my browser doesn't support it.
Doesn't seem to be happening with javascript disabled.
there is no a64 architecture, you must mean amd64.
My parents and the bulk of the people out there do not need a 64bit 5ghz monster under their desk. And honestly most of thosethat have them probably only use the power 5-10% of the time, if that.
Intel could care less about us, they care about Fortune 500 companies that buy computers by the truck load... and what those companies care about is saving money. 5-20W here and there don't really mean much to you and I, but when you're footing the electric bill for several hundreds or thousands of people then giving everyone barn burners to run Excel starts to look pretty foolish.
You might as well be comparing a Prius and a Ferrari or a jumbo jet and an SR-71.
Use the right tool for the job folks.
I've been using a Pentium M Dell Inspiron 8600 for the past week (configuring it for a friend)
I've had nothing but luck with it, it's warm at worst and the fan comes on for 90 seconds every 25 minutes when it's sitting on a soft pillow (practically covering ALL vents in the machine)
It browses very fast, it's responsive and it plays back movies fine
Absoloutely no qualms here, an Athlon 64 would be far hotter, far noiser and (potentially) less stable.
(intel chipset / cpu in a laptop is just the only way to go... I wish it was different but it's not)
My indirect experience with a Intel P4 was when my roommate upgraded his computer. Since it didn't boot, he was packing the parts away to take back to the store. He came to me asking if it was normal for the CPU to be sticking to the heatsink, and I died laughing when I saw it. Turns out my roommate didn't know about the little lever thingie on the CPU socket. :)
I've worked on most operating systems out there and a large number of different hardware configurations and I've had everyone of them crash just some more than others. Stability is like Bigfoot, a lot of claims by people but still no physical evidence. Do what I do, Back up often, say the occational prayer and once a day face Seattle Washington and flip Bill Gates the bird. Works so far.
You really think so? Where I work monitors (big 21" CRTs) are left on 24/7. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen anybody sit down at them. It's always roasting and the lights never go off.
No, they obviously had a file called 600000 which contained the string "600000\n"
-You're only as clean as your towel.
Intention and implementation are two entirely different things :)
I've noticed the same thing at the office I work at, they go through great lengths to make sure that the overhead lights and HVAC are turned-down/shut-off during off hours but all the computers are left on and none of them are set to auto-sleep/hibernate.
The sad thing is everyone will complain about how hot the office is over the weekend when it's 30 degrees outside. It should be getting *colder* (no one is in the office, everything else is shut off and the window to floor space ratio is pretty high). Apparently it hasn't occurred to anyone important that it's the computers that are heating it up.
wasn't it AMD's CPUs that you could literally fry an egg on? How did this come about? Sorry if it's redundant, but that was my impression for the longest time - AMD runs hotter...
'A lie if repeated often enough, becomes the truth.' - Goebbels
My ideal laptop for college was an Apple G4, but school insisted on Windows for it's 'stability, reliability, and security'.... yea, that's a joke in itself.
Decided to get an IBM Thinkpad with a Pentium IV Mobile.
Everyone with laptops running P4's seen to have issues with heat, and power consumption. Despite my oversided screen, dual HD's, and CD-RW... I'm actually doing all right.
It cost more to get a laptop with a real mobile chip, rather than just a P4 as some companies offer... but I think it saved me a lot of trouble.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
People who are clueless and overpay for items use the lame phrase "you get what you pay for" to make themselves feel better.
I had a "friend" even try to use that line on me when I bought the same exact item online for much less than he got it for at the store. I guess he thinks that somehow paying more money for something must mean it's more valuable.
You know, 10 years ago I was saying the same thing about the bulk of the people not needing a 32bit 1 gHz monster under their desk. Now this is the minimum that they need.
Don't underestimate Microsoft's ability to make software that brings yesterday's supercomputers to their knees today.
--jeff++
ipv6 is my vpn
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I've built a pentium-M desktop right after reading /.'s article. I dunno bout the rest of you, but I enjoy the fact it kicks most competitor's asses in gaming when it's similarly equppied. This thing screams playing games, regardless of it's limited architecture. 2.0 ghz and kicking the crap out of my 1.8 p4 desktop by MILES.
First of all, you will only find P4 "Mobile" in P4 laptops. Non mobile versions draw too much juice and have heat dissipation of at least 100W.
:0)
Second of all, Pentium-M blows the doors off P4 "Mobile" while at the same time running much cooler and consuming much less power.
Third, I type this from a 20" iMac G5. Envy me.
Your remark about Microsoft could apply to Linux as well. A login to KDE or GNOME on my computer takes much longer than in Windows. So much for the days when small light and fast Linux could be used to rejuvinate old systems.
If Intel were serious, they could be making these right now at 2.4 GHz (I'm sure they'd run fine, and still quite cool) at which point it would be beating every desktop processor in the world. I say that's a hell of a start for an Intel processor line. The most important thing is that with such a low heat output, Intel can eventually clock these things pretty high. The Athlon64 seems to have less headroom.
One clear lesson is that the Pentium4 and everything based on it is done. The P4 gets creamed by the M, it's quite embarassing. I think Intel will just ride out the P4 advertising investment, but we know that their next big thing involves the M cores. And they will be quite fearsome once they start putting multiple M cores into desktop chips, and putting their marketing muscle behind the result.
I'm a huge AMD fan and will remain loyal, but... I think AMD is in a good place now only because they've consistently out-engineered Intel since the first Athlon. Now I'm scared that they won't pull it off in the next generation. Intel seems to have a really promising starting point.
yeap, 640KB of memory should be enought for everybody...
Gah, I have Slashdot set up to show that whole damned comment. Now I know why people don't do that.
Every real geek has owned a dual proc. Intel machine.
Only problem is that my dual processor Intel machine is a dual slot-1 P3 450MHz box... built back when this machine was state of the art. But the processor speeds skyrocketed so rapidly that this machine became utterly worthless, virtually overnight. It still runs fine, and runs Linux pretty well, but still rather slowly by today's standards. The motherboard won't support any better processors without using PowerLeap adapters, and the cost of a pair of PowerLeaps with 1.4GHz Tualatin P3 cpu's just isn't worthwhile. The money would be better spent towards something else.
Use the right tool for the job folks.
Most companies should be using low cost, diskless workstations whose only job is to connect to powerful servers where the real work is done, that can be easily managed by a small staff, instead of giving everyone a full fledged PC, which for most business users, is nothing more than fertile soil for viruses, trojans, and worms, and is a maintenance nightmare for I.T. staffs.
In my opinion... :)
Every real geek can remember the first time they took a soldering iron to the motherboard to secretly modify their father's computer...
--Rob
For what reason are Athlon 64 processors not "stable"?
Usually its the user. Someone will upgrade a system by replacing the motherboard but that old power supply is not Athlon rated. Or they will buy brand new crappy parts. Or they will have a rats nest of ribbon cables block airflow through the case. Or they will overclock and think because the systems seems to be running fine everything is OK, being totally oblivious to the fact that not all overclocking induced errors are obvious - some are as subtle as an instruction giving the wrong answer. The build-your-own folks who buy high quality parts after doing their homework, who properly route cables to permit airflow, and who avoid risky behaviors like overclocking are not heard from as often as the former.
Someone else posted "you get what you pay for", well yes and no. You get back the effort that went in, now you could pay for someone else's effort, or you could invest your own time. Either works.
I've purchased a custom-built Athlon 64 (3500+ 939) system from them. I've also purchased additional RAM from them for that same system.
n gs.com/seller2079.html
They have good standing on www.resellerratings.com:
http://www.resellerrati
In addition to their good ranking here, my top reason for going with them was that for custom builds, for every component available they list full specifications and provide an image (in a popup window).
Many of the sites I checked out before making my decision just give you a drop down box for each component category, and leave it up to you to determine what the item is, and why stated specs are sometimes inconsistent.
They will pre-install Windows, Linux, or ship without an OS.
For a quality case (without plastic and neon) I recommend the Lian Li PC-60.
And in my opinion, the 3500+ 939 is still the best "bang for your buck". A 3800+, FX, or dual-Opteron system going to be expensive wherever you go. Since its socket 939, you can be pretty well assured you will have an upgrade path at least late into next year.
The retailer is a bit more expensive than others.
dircha AT dircha DOT com
can be a fair gaming machine. After reading: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/20/205821 2&tid=137
I looked into buying the pieces from TD Curran for a very small quiet gamer that would play anything on the market. It came in at about $1200.00 without a monitor.
I agree the times are ripe for the reintroduction of Thin client deployment, obviously a UNIX varient would be the right tool, perhapse even thin clients which pooled resources, data storage taken care of by a NAS and an image server for the initial loading of each machine. It would be weird having a few thousand 3-400 MHz Geode CPU based machines logging on to a distributed cluster which was running on each machine but it would do several things.
1. it would be Frickin' cool
2. it would be cheap compared to either terminal + mainframe or thousands of desktop machines
3. As long as the cluster software was done right and deployed properly it would scale very well (hopefully automatically)
4. If you needed a large amount of power added to the system for a short time you could rent a few beefy machines to hook up to the cluster temporarily.
5. In the future if your computing needs diminish rather than being stuck with semi out dated PC's or more Iron than you need just sell some of the cluster clients to someone who is using a similar system and is in need of additional machines.
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
A couple of more links
here and here.
At the moment AMD is kicking Intel's arse in the performance sector. The pentium M (Banias) is the only remaining tech that Intel really has. Lots of chickens have come home to roost now that Intel's super-ultra-mega clockspeed boosted chip has reached the end of the line.
For the sake of a continuing healthy, competive market even the most die hard AMD fans had better hope that Intel gets back on track and allows some engineers to actually make some product decisions for a change. The Banias core seems to be their only hope.
I have found all of these recent benchmarks to be rather amazing. It's tough for anything to beat an overclocked Pentium M in games even with the huge disadvantages of an aging platform without all the latest goodies. Intel should be embarrassed. Deeply. Their Pentium 4 is a disgrace.
It is clear that for anyone who cares at all about power consumption, heat, or noise, nothing can touch a Pentium M, not even a Cool n' Quiet enabled 90nm Winchester Athlon64. If Aopen releases a desktop motherboard with the upcoming alviso (PCI-E, DDR2 etc) chipset, things could get very interesting indeed.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
Noise, on the other hand, is a real issue, and having a silent or very quiet machine would be a pleasant change.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
I realize no one reads TFM, but is it too much to ask that you actually RTFPost you're commenting on?
And WHO in god's name gave a +4, interesting to an obviously smartassed comment about a laptop clocking down WITH THE POWER CORD UNPLUGGED?!?!
of on-die full-speed L2 cache. The same amount as they have on Xeons. So if by "data intensive" you mean not just copying large blocks of RAM, but actually doing something with the data, I think P-M should be fairly competitive despite its lowish FSB speed.
But for home, since I'm not a gamer, I've never had a good reason to buy the current year's CPU. Sure, I recently upgraded from 233 MHz to 2.4 GHz, but that was mostly because my old motherboard fried itself and 2.4 GHz was $10 more than 2 GHz. It's an embarrasingly large amount of CPU, and the only reasons that I perceive it as slow are that Windows XP isn't very good at switching users (probably more RAM would help), plus I'm usually burning CPU with Folding@Home and running BitTorrent uploads in the background. When I get to use it as a geek machine and boot it into Linux, it's far faster than it needs to be, even if I'm running bloatware window managers.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
But yes, yesterday's supercomputer, the Cray-1, was about the speed of a Pentium-133. Too slow to run Microsoftware on these days, though if you ran Win95 and Netscape 2 and Excel 5 you'd probably think it was pretty responsive. And X Windows ran ok on my 33 MHz 386 box, though Open Look was a bit slow, so if you want a modern Linux on a P133 (which you do) you probably need a bunch of extra RAM and a lightweight window manager - fvtwm or blackbox or something is a lot friendlier than KDE/Gnome.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
"slow, over heated monstrosity;"
thank goodnes AMD isn't known for that!
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Naa.
With x86, you have the choice to go AMD or Intel (or even one of the others) with the CPU, about a dozen or so motherboard makers (and a handful of chipset makers) the best compatibility with hardware, software, etc.
You're not at the mercy of one single company. Yes, the Microsoft point can be made, but you CAN run other OS's and moving forward all these Linux distributions just keep on getting better..
These Athlons are no slouch, either. They're quick chips and they shine when they run in 64-bit mode. While the OS support is still tentative, it will come, and then I see no reason to use a Mac at all unless you really like MacOS. It's not like this is the last batch of CPU's from AMD and Intel; they'll both probably have really great second generation 64-bit performance.
I like the Macs. I do find the MacOSX to be annoying to use just as any MacOS before it, but it works well and the machines are fast. Unfortunately the whole single-company thing just scares me. You never know, Apple could completely blow it and decide their desktop computer division is too much work and decide to only make iPods; then we'd be down shit's creek.
Plus. Macs are kinda expensive.
- It's not the Macs I hate. It's Digg users. -
Try Xfce. I have Xfce 4 on an old PII of mine (the computer I'm typing this on, actually), and with a light GTK theme (Bluecurve), it runs much faster than even Win98 did on the same hardware.
Bít, zabít, jen proto, ze su liska!
I don't fold mine in half for anything.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Thanks! Just took a look and will try it out.
I wish distributions would take speed a little more seriously though. A coworker or relative installing Linux to try it out typically chooses the defaults (KDE? GNOME? huh?) and goes by first (bad) impression.
1 gig? 10 years ago? I think not.
.net application on a 2 gig machine(200 bucks at frys) + 84 bucks for 512 MRam, and it cimpiles the application in about 45 seconads.
A 1Gig machine with 512 MEGS of memory can run any application needed for standard office work... with Windows 2000.
Guess what? a lot of companies have figured that out as well. The seldom buy cutting edge desktop computers any more, and the corporate uptaks on XP has been slow. It may be the first MS OS that home users pick up before a lot of corporations. MS is not happy about XP or Office sales.
I cimpile a decent size
My 1.7 Gig machine compiles it in 35 seconds. Higher end chip.
my partende 1.2 gig lap top compiles it in 60 seconds.
Would it be worth spending 1500 bucks to shave 25% of the time? not any more. 10 years ago, sure becasue 20% could be half a day.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I wish I could say Athlon rocks, but I just can't. I've had some major stability issues with AMD 64 processors. That's why my next computer will run mission critical applications on Intel hardware.
If I was just playing games with my box, then it naturally wouldn't matter.
I am running an Intel celeron 1.7 gig, 3/4 Gig of RAM. I can run games as well as my friends system. HIs system was what ever was top of the line AMD 4 months ago. We both use the same video card, but he has a Gig of memory.
I think the "AMD rules for games" impression is crated by a bunch of gamers who don't know processors, but do know that intel is big, and therefore evil, and AMD is the 'underdog'.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I believe Intel will strive for the next step.
Face it, the speed wars are over*.
Next up, quite computers. Intel is working on a number of different angles on this.
It probably wont be too long before you start seeing commercials that show two computer running the same application and it will look just as fast on both machine, then some yopung ladies hand willr each out and turn of one system and that back ground hum with disapear. It will be replaced with a bird chirpping, the sound of kids playing.
"Listen to what you have been missing" will be the tag line. The Intel Hush.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
there is a serious error in TFA.
For Pentium M compiling benchmarks, look carefully HERE
You know what? A 1 Gig machine with 512 MB runs XP just fine too. We have alot of them at work. In fact, we have a lot of 800 MHz machines that run XP. XP does not have that much bloat when compared to 2000.
Gorkman
ELECTRIC HEAT! IN CALIFORNIA? I realize you don't use it as heavily as someone in Wisconsin, but jeez, thats just stupid. On one level is the very high price your paying for the heat, and two is the utter sillines of burning fuel, converting it into heat, converting the temperature gradient into electricity at maybe 1/3 to 1/2 efficiency, and then sending that juice down wires at a significant loss of 3 to ten percent and then converting BACK to heat rather than just burning it in the first place means that you're using about 4 to 5 times as much fuel. And in California with the most expensive electricity in the country. You might as well just burn dollar bills for heat.
Or, for the more evolved, Gnu/Linux running on a G5. OS-X is nice for novices, but a Gnu OS is the only real operating system for pros.
I run my firewall on a Dual Pentium 90MHz.
Does that mean I am a geek?
Now if only Yellow Dog Linux would cleanly support the iBooks's sleep mode...
http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=180 0
...also notice how a P4M gives about the same type of performance of a normal P4: actually it's pretty on par with equivalent speed athlon cpu's.
Gives more detail on the why & how
When looking at my XP taskbar, the title in Firefox says "Slashdot: More Anal..."
You made a mistake, the 1283 number should be a 7 you sux0r!
Prices for the DFI 855GME are around euro 270 ($360). For the AOpen i855GMEm-LFS euro 205 ($270).
That's just crazy. For 270 you can get an Asus A8V Deluxe AND an Athlon 64 3200+ Winchester.
The i8600 has the following benefits over an Apple laptop:
Where the i8600 lacks compared to the PowerBook:
A while ago I compared a 15" G4 PowerBook and a Dell Inspiron i8600 "side by side" at my home office for a few weeks. I have two i8600's and one i8500 (about to sell the latter), and had a Inspiron 5000e for over 3 years. I have co-workers and collegues who are very happy with the i8600's. I also have co-workers and collegues who are happy with the G4 PowerBooks. On the other hand, one co-worker had a very unreliable 800Mhz iBook (and the story behind the crap support he got from the local reseller in Australia is a separate rant), and another friend had a similar "bad support" story for his 15" TiBook... I have a friend who swears Dell are unreliable and raves about his PowerBook. What widely divergant views!
In short, use whatever you like for your own reasons. I really appreciate the high quality high resolution screen and far superior after-sale warranty of the i8600 over the G4 PowerBook. If Apple resolved these issues in future models, I may reevaluate.
check these guys out great prices and decent service beleive it or not. I have been recommending these guys around for awhile. I will warn you you might have to go out and buy some stealth fans to replace the ones they use, to quiet down the system.
---In a time of Chimpanzees I was a Monkey.
10 years ago 1 ghz was a FANTASY. Just like 100 mhz was a fantasy in 1987. It was of course inconceivable that anyone would be EVER needing such power, and now you are saying this is minimum requirements.
Anyways, people are buying off the shelf computers with XP and >2ghz. Do they need them? They are not just running office, they are running Doom and Half Life 2 and Halo 2, etc. etc.
Jeff
ipv6 is my vpn
If those companies really cared about power they would be buying Arm or Transmeta, not Intel. But in reality, what they care about is using a vendor whose name they've heard about, and that is Intel, despite the fact that they make the hottest, most power hungry CPU's available on the desktop today.
Nah, my Win 95 realy runs FAST on my new XP2500+ :)
anyway, there is other operating systems out there, not just M$ stuff, like LINUX
Hello to all AMD 64 owners out there. What I would like to know is - have you got any stability problems with your computers? I administrate 7 recently built AMD 64 computers and I have faced weird stability problems on daily basis. Well, it could be the VIA chipset which is notorious for being unstable, but I'm not sure. I'm afraid these first incarnations of 64 bit processors made by AMD are just no there yet. Like most new products, these seem to have flaws. Probably should have waited a year and then get me 64 bit processors. On the other hand I must say that I've been impressed with the stability of Intel hardware.
Now, I know there are going to be people out there who disagree with me on this. They're going to say that Intel sucks, and that they know a dozen reasons why AMD processors are better/faster/cooler. Take my advice and don't bother listening to their misinformed chatter. Instead, do what I do: drop into fifth and accelerate past them while they're still talking. Very few things are as satisfying as the stability of Intel hardware.
Some people who have bought 64 bit processors are eager to brag about it when in reality their 64 bit processors are not necessarily any faster than your 32 bit processor. It's just marketing hype! It's the same marketing bullshit we've seen with 192kHz / 24 bit audio cards. The average range of hearing for children is from a low of 20 Hertz (20 Hz) to a high of 20,000 Hertz (20 kHz). By the time a person hits age 20, years of loud listening to rock music has already killed off the 'high tones'. The high range for a young adult has dropped to 16,000 Hertz (16 kHz). Human ear can not even hear those frequencies! So really, any music that plays outside those ranges won't be heard by a human ear and is worthless as far as humans are concerned. Similar marketing hype is happening with Athlon 64 bit processors.
It seems to me that Anandtech didn't run the Linux benchmarks in 64-bit mode for the AMD processors. Given that they are giving an indication of processor performance, they should allow AMD to use that extra gear. It's there to be used!
Stop the brainwash
I think one of the biggest reasons Intel has classically been seen as stable and AMD hasn't is because of the motherboard chipset. I'm willing to bet you've built an Intel system that was stable running alongside an instable system with the same processor and different motherboard.
Intel processors have a higher likelyhood of resting on a decent chipset that works well in conjunction with the processor. It happens to be an Intel chipset, so I'm not debating the fact that Intel makes good hardware. I have been building AMD systems for a long time, and the stability varies with the motherboard chipset.
After all this hot air (undoubtedly from a P4, har har), build an AMD system on an nforce chipset and you'll have the most rock-solid PC in the world.
Love,
Me
Please stop stalking me, bro.
Actually, even my K6-2 450mhz does not crash for 3 months.
And it is not hot.
Ok, Dothan is an excellent processor. The only question is whether Intel can beat its own marketing. When I recommend Athlon 64 over P4 Prescott to my friends they always say: P4 has HyperThreading! I will be able to run two apps a the same time! That's tremendous! I can't buy this Athlon thing, it has no HT!. And unfortunately for Intel there are some troubles with incorporating HyperThreading into Dothan's architecture due to short pipeline (HT was a hack to fix problems resulting from large wrong-branch-prediction penalty). So people not willing to buy Athlon will not want to buy Dothan (or any Pentium M) either. At least until it has HT or Intel convinces people that all their PR said was wrong.
You can defy gravity... for a short time
35 bugs or more NOT TO BE FIXXED, a lot of awful flaws from Intel!!!
worst performance indicator!!! worst protection!!! worst of worst!!!
Don't buy the EXPENSIVE & AWFUL CENTRINO's PENTIUM-M !!!
open4free ©
35 bugs or more NOT TO BE FIXXED, a lot of awful flaws from Intel!!!
worst performance indicator!!! worst protection!!! worst of worst!!!
Don't buy the EXPENSIVE & AWFUL CENTRINO's PENTIUM-M !!!
open4free ©
35 bugs or more NOT TO BE FIXXED, a lot of awful flaws from Intel!!!
worst performance indicator!!! worst protection!!! worst of worst!!!
Don't buy the EXPENSIVE & AWFUL CENTRINO's PENTIUM-M !!!
open4free ©
35 bugs or more NOT TO BE FIXXED, a lot of awful flaws from Intel!!!
worst performance indicator!!! worst protection!!! worst of worst!!!
Don't buy the EXPENSIVE & AWFUL CENTRINO's PENTIUM-M !!!
open4free ©
whoopty-f*i*kin-ding-dong!!!
THERE IS A MINOR, and I mean minor bug in Alviso that won't be fixed before launch. The DDR subsystem doesn't like to power down the way it should, so if you look at the initial numbers, DRR2 will end up looking much better than it really is.
I say this is a minor problem because you would pretty much have to me a moron to buy an Alviso machine with DDR anyway. The 15 or so minutes of battery life when you use DDR2 is well worth the price premium, especially considering it is probably not going to be in cheap laptops to begin with.
Note: the Alviso machine is a based-Sonoma (==Dothan with 533MHz FSB instead of 400MHz FSB) notebook that Intel will start to release it in 16-January-2005.
Don't buy the EXPENSIVE & AWFUL CENTRINO's PENTIUM-M !!!
open4free ©
whoopty-f*i*kin-ding-dong!!!
THERE IS A MINOR, and I mean minor bug in Alviso that won't be fixed before launch. The DDR subsystem doesn't like to power down the way it should, so if you look at the initial numbers, DRR2 will end up looking much better than it really is.
I say this is a minor problem because you would pretty much have to me a moron to buy an Alviso machine with DDR anyway. The 15 or so minutes of battery life when you use DDR2 is well worth the price premium, especially considering it is probably not going to be in cheap laptops to begin with.
Note: the Alviso machine is a based-Sonoma (==Dothan with 533MHz FSB instead of 400MHz FSB) notebook that Intel will start to release it in 16-January-2005.
Don't buy the EXPENSIVE & AWFUL CENTRINO's PENTIUM-M !!!
open4free ©
You're not using a Pentium M, then (Dothan/Banias) - you're using a Pentium 4 Mobile.
Get a clue.
He's using the Pentium 4 Mobile, I'd say. He's just too clueless to realize there's a difference and the P4 Mobile is more power hungry.
whoopty-f*i*kin-ding-dong!!!
THERE IS A MINOR, and I mean minor bug in Alviso that won't be fixed before launch. The DDR subsystem doesn't like to power down the way it should, so if you look at the initial numbers, DRR2 will end up looking much better than it really is.
I say this is a minor problem because you would pretty much have to me a moron to buy an Alviso machine with DDR anyway. The 15 or so minutes of battery life when you use DDR2 is well worth the price premium, especially considering it is probably not going to be in cheap laptops to begin with.
Note: the Alviso machine is a Sonoma-based (==Dothan with 533MHz FSB instead of 400MHz FSB) notebook that Intel will start to release it in 16-January-2005.
Don't buy the EXPENSIVE & AWFUL CENTRINO's PENTIUM-M !!!
open4free ©
This post got a +5 Interesting mod? Truly sad, because it's the worst sort of ignorant fanboyism.
First, there's nothing "legacy" about a 32-bit operating system. How many people, even hard core nerds, have more than 3G of memory in their workstations/desktops?
Second, the extra registers are somewhat helpful, but unfortunately for FanBoydom there aren't a lot of mainstream apps/games that use them.
Windows 64-bit is pointless for the desktop, of course, I'm not sure what crack you're smoking there. I wouldn't use it for _3_ years even if it was released tomorrow. No point - immature drivers, no recompiled software, etc...
Finally, it's fun to pull numbers out of your ass, isn't it? Your post was 40% more idiotic than most of the rest of the drooling fanboy posts.
whoopty-f*i*kin-ding-dong!!!
THERE IS A MINOR, and I mean minor bug in Alviso that won't be fixed before launch. The DDR subsystem doesn't like to power down the way it should, so if you look at the initial numbers, DRR2 will end up looking much better than it really is.
I say this is a minor problem because you would pretty much have to me a moron to buy an Alviso machine with DDR anyway. The 15 or so minutes of battery life when you use DDR2 is well worth the price premium, especially considering it is probably not going to be in cheap laptops to begin with.
Note: the Alviso machine is a Sonoma-based (==Dothan with 533MHz FSB instead of 400MHz FSB) notebook that Intel will start to release it in 16-January-2005.
Don't buy the EXPENSIVE & AWFUL CENTRINO's PENTIUM-M !!!
open4free ©
Gifts, and "executive briefs" are what execs thrive on. The ability not to look stupid among his other MBAs is important, so he wants to be able to call the company and have a brief made on a moment's notice as to why chip X beats chip Y.
Power consumption really is in the noise with these guys.
Wrong!!!
Pentium M is not double pumped, it's quadpumped!!!.
Pentium M (Dothan) uses PC1600 RAM SO-DIMM (it's DDR200 RAM SO-DIMM for 400 MHz FSB).
Athlon XP 3200+ (Barton) uses PC3200 RAM DIMM (it's DDR400 RAM DIMM for 400 MHz FSB) (it's really double pumped).
Pentium M (Sonoma) will use PC2100 RAM SO-DIMM (it's DDR266 RAM SO-DIMM for 533 MHz FSB).
open4free ©
It is my understanding that a lot of residences here in California do not have gas stoves or heat because we have earthquakes, which can rupture gas mains. I've lived in a bunch of places, and all the stoves/heating were all electric. Cooking on an electric range is pretty terrible, as well - restaurants and such have the industrial gas stoves, but they seem to be more rare in residences.
-If
Run a pencil-and-paper RPG campaign with your far-off friends: Gametable!
Speak for yourself. Every 10 watts or so that my systems put out raises the tempurature in here by another 1 degree. During the summer (which is about 9 months of the year) that's a big problem.
With 3 computers running constantly, and a few more running intermittently, you can imagine what kind of wattage I'm using here, and just 20watts less from each one would make a very big difference to me.
And that's not even accounting for the fact that electricity is too damn expensive here in California. 20 watts continually means a few killowatts every month, which means something like 50 cents, per machine, per month. And even more is spent during the summer on air conditioning to remove the heat they are generating. Very rough numbers, but you get the idea.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
But then again, neither architechture supports Blast Processing.
This post is brought to you in 100 percent digital quality.
ELECTRIC HEAT! IN CALIFORNIA? I realize you don't use it as heavily as someone in Wisconsin, but jeez, thats just stupid.
I live in Ottawa...and at least from a renters perspective the poeple I know with electric are much, much, much happier than people with oil heat. Judging by the other response you're implying gas is better...but I guess with older neighborhoods this may not be an option. It's certainly what my parents have in their suburb built in 1980, though.
On the other hand, I lived in California for a year in the late 70s, back when they were building those electrically-heated buildings, in a gas-heated one-bedroom apartment that never used more than $13 for gas+electricity in the worst of the winter, which was less than the electric bill alone for the gas-heated two-bedroom townhouse in New Jersey the next year.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks