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This isn't a squid...it's an alien astronaut from the oceans of Europa...

This creature is really an alien astronaut from the oceans of Europa....

Nowadays, I read space.com and feel an overwhelming sense of depression. I see billions of tax dollars wasted on multimillion dollar toy space suits, and paying large salaries to Slashdot trolls and other function-free individuals.

NASA is a drain on the nation's economy, and we need to send them a clear message: shape up or ship out. We need to run them like the R&D division in a corporation: if they can't produce useful results, innovations, and profit within a few years, we need to start cutting projects and staff. I want to see NASA become synonymous with "technical progress" like it was when I grew up; right now, it is synonymous with "wasted tax money" and that is not a favorable label to have during such a terrible recession.

freebsd guy

There is nothing wrong with a good audit over NASA's budget. That budget is what a Butt Head Astronomer would describe as billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars. The Mars Climate Orbiter was just one obvious sign of NASA waste. Getting someone in the accounting field might just be able to help NASA maximize the funds it has and achieving more with the same.

Since the head of NASA is not going to greet the great beyond, he really need not be a scientist. Just someone who is effective running a massive organization funded by taxpayer dollars. As Dennis Tito has shown, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to make it into space. In fact, being good with money and budgets was what lead him to the stars.

As it stands the shuttle is strained to the limit to get to the station. Infact Columbia (the heaviest of the four shuttles) can't reach the station [space.com] where it is. Move it any higher, and you wouldn't be able to get to it.

Height is not the problem at all, Columbia can easily reach the current altitude of the ISS. What Columbia can't easily do is reach the orbit of the ISS. The two sound the same, but they aren't really. To explain: (highly simplified)

A given booster can launch it's maximum weight to a given altitude launching at 0 degrees inclination, that is due East. (In the same plane as the Equator.) At that angle the booster gets the maximum help from the Earth's spin. As the angle of inclination increases (or decreases) the help from the Earth's spin goes down, and so does the payload to a given altitude. Minimum payload to a given altitude occurs at +/- 180 degrees, or due West. (You have to 'slow down' relative to the Earth before 'speeding up' to orbital velocity.)

The ISS is in a 52 degree orbit so that the Russians can reach it from their launch sites. The orbits they can reach are limited because of where the stages of the booster will drop early in the flight. Low inclinations require either dropping the stages on China, or choosing trajectories that require so much booster energy that useful payload drops dramatically. Since the Russian modules had to be launched more-or-less fully equipped, ISS had to be in an orbit they could effectively reach, thus causing the US to accept a major payload hit.

After her latest overhaul Columbia can in fact reach the station with a minimal payload. (Which is even specified in the article you referenced.) Check your facts.

Geosync is the most crowded orbital position we have. This is the last place you want to be if you are trying to avoid junk.

Geosync is crowded because for a given 'slot' (a chunk of orbit that can see directly a specific spot on the ground) there is a lot of competition. Also while there are a number of dead sattelites in the vicinity, there is almost no booster stages, debris from breakups, or 'lost' hardware. In fact geosync is highly desireable for debris avoidance because the relative velocities and absolute debris density are much lower. Check your facts.

It most certainly does. Check your facts.

> and why it wasn't placed in a geosync

Geosync is the most crowded orbital position we have. This is the last place you want to be if you are trying to avoid junk. Check your facts.

> or a higher circular orbit.

As it stands the shuttle is strained to the limit to get to the station. Infact Columbia (the heaviest of the four shuttles) can't reach the station where it is. Move it any higher, and you wouldn't be able to get to it. Check your facts.

There is a more detailed article here.

Space.com has a viewing guide with some times for different locations.

City Start Max Stop
Los Angeles 12:04 1:10 2:12
Seattle 12:22 12:48 1:14
Denver 1:48 2:38 3:24
Chicago 3:08 3:59 sunset
Miami 4:14 5:25 sunset
New York 4:13 sunset --
Mexico City 2:45 4:13 5:26

Space.com has a viewing guide with some times for different locations.

City Start Max Stop
Los Angeles 12:04 1:10 2:12
Seattle 12:22 12:48 1:14
Denver 1:48 2:38 3:24
Chicago 3:08 3:59 sunset
Miami 4:14 5:25 sunset
New York 4:13 sunset --
Mexico City 2:45 4:13 5:26

Although the first link in the article seems to have been thoroughly Slashdotted,

the space.com link (http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem /mars_renderings_011204-2.html)

and the mars3d.co.uk (http://mars3d.co.uk/)

happen to have some of the images, although not in as high a resolution.

Space is risky, and while it may pay off, it's unlikely to.

Space is unlikely to pay off??

That must be the stupidest thing I've read here (and keep in mind, this is Slashdot). One nickel asteroid from the belt would pay for all the expenses many times.

Of course, not if we do it the NASA way - step by step, and don't dare to take another step until everything possible has been done on the first.

For a realistic view of a possible space future check out How To Save Civilization and Make A Little Money by Larry Niven. The full text is available in "N-Space" - the link is just a piece of Niven's mind on the topic.

I mean, come on, USA went to the moon in a glorified bath tub and now, 30+ years later with ten times the tech all we can do is one lousy space station?

If only Bill Gates had a desire for space besides the desire for money - we'd be booking our seats on Microsoft Mars Express right now.

Yan

* Origin: (2:380/110)

More Spoilers...

It was NOT supposed to be the last book. He died before he was finished. Brian (his son) and Kevin Anderson have done a number of prequels, and are doing the sequel to Chapterhouse (book 7), after which they're going way back to cover the Butlerian Jihad series (3 books), which will be completed in about 2004. Their writing doesn't match Frank Herbert's, in my opinion, but it's always great to have more Dune books.

A) I think that for the sake of later plot development Teg and Sheena had to become involved with each other. Also, it was important that Teg's memories were recovered independant of Bene Geseret influence for his later independant decision making. Also, maybe this showed how the current Bene Geserit ways of imprinting were failing and had to change in the end.

B) I agree - except that Murbella probably couldn't have gotten to the spider queen without assistance.

C) I think that the 'farmers' that your thinking about were the face dancer couple that were prescient and trying to get control of the known universe using that knowledge and the the null capsule filled with all the Tleilaxu gholas.

D) When Duncan guided he, Sheeana, & Scytale to the uncharted universe they escaped them. This actually is a cool finish because it shows that independant decision is the best thing humans have, and this seems to me to be a decent resolution to the series.

Is this based on life as WE know it? Of couse it is. To suggest that other intelligent forms of life would have to follow our own path, with what our own planet offered is what's absurd.

Extremeophiles would tell us that life can arise in the most extreme cases. Like on an asteroid, or just floating in near space.

So, don't worry about being sucked into infinitely long strings of goo just yet.

The Drake equation has one important factor missing from it: the "here-and-now" factor. The only part of the Drake equation with regards to time is the "lifetime" of communicating civilizations, or, specifically, "the length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space" (space.com).

Wouldn't the simple idea be that if alien civilizations were technologically advanced enough and if they sent out detectable signals at all, then they would have to exist right now for us to detect them? The truth is that the vastness of our universe (throughout most of which we will never find "detectable signals" from within the next few million generations) makes the chances that other intelligent life exists fairly good. But the chances of us detecting them, them detecting us, or both detecting each other is fairly slim since we do not know if the time at which both civilizations are technologically able to do so coincides.

Consider this as well: signals take time to travel. Who's to say that if a civilization on the other side of our galaxy that existed 50,000 years ago but is extinct now ever had the opportunity to send out signals. What if there's intelligent life on an Earthlike planet orbiting Epison Eridani (only 10 light years away), but their civilization takes 500,000 years to become technologically adept enough to build detection or emitting devices? (Comparably, human life needed only 100,000 or so years to develop from animals that used simple tools to today's high-tech humanoids.)

Actually, the evidence for the asteroid is pretty compelling IMO. There's a good article about it here.

For those of you interested in Darwin Awards, here is the X-Prize site. Here is Robert A. Braeunig's page on how to do it, orbital mechanics and the like. Space.com usually carries the X-prize news. For those of you wondering about the difference between an Ariane and a Proteus, here is the glossary

1Alpha7

The process eventually would need to involve a bunch of posts, minimizing fuel expenditures and making sure that any one vehicle serves only its one purpose... but the initial outlay of cash would eventually turn into a very very profitable business.

The question was originally whether it's worth doing this kind of thing given that the world has bigger problems to deal with, but when you look at it from a business perspective, it could be a very plausible (if not hideously expensive) venture unlike anything history has ever seen.

How about some basic info on where to watch, eh?

Gleened from Space.com [space.com]

For North American skywatchers, Earth will enter the heavier parts of the stream at about 11 p.m. EST on Saturday, Nov. 17. Activity will peak around 5 a.m. Sunday morning, when as many as 13 meteors per minute could be visible, likely for a stretch of time that lasts less than 1 hour. The peak corresponds to 4 a.m. CST, 3 a.m. MST and 2 a.m. PST.

People like these are worthy of praise because they're helping make space accessible to the more common folk.

if by 'more common folk' you mean the super rich, i agree. you (and i), however, are never going into space (unless you go like gene roddenbery).

the research done at NASA and its contractors may produce some results applicable to us but a better return on our investment would be researching (and implementing) technology whose application lies on earth. i'm not saying NASA should be dropped outright but we should re-evaluate our goals in space.

According to an article on space.com at peak, North and Centeral America are supposed to see around 800 per hour, Australia and East Asia around 2,000 per hour, Western Australia and East/South East/Central Asia around 8,000 per hour. Europe and South America will be in sunlight during the peak so they will only see normal rates of 10-15 per hour.

Also stated is that Peter Jenniskens has predicted 4,200 per hour for North America at 5:09AM. His prediction is the highest yet.

You can also check out predictions for 30 US Cities here.

According to an article on space.com at peak, North and Centeral America are supposed to see around 800 per hour, Australia and East Asia around 2,000 per hour, Western Australia and East/South East/Central Asia around 8,000 per hour. Europe and South America will be in sunlight during the peak so they will only see normal rates of 10-15 per hour.

Also stated is that Peter Jenniskens has predicted 4,200 per hour for North America at 5:09AM. His prediction is the highest yet.

You can also check out predictions for 30 US Cities here.

According to an article on space.com at peak, North and Centeral America are supposed to see around 800 per hour, Australia and East Asia around 2,000 per hour, Western Australia and East/South East/Central Asia around 8,000 per hour. Europe and South America will be in sunlight during the peak so they will only see normal rates of 10-15 per hour.

Also stated is that Peter Jenniskens has predicted 4,200 per hour for North America at 5:09AM. His prediction is the highest yet.

You can also check out predictions for 30 US Cities here.

Gleened from Space.com

For North American skywatchers, Earth will enter the heavier parts of the stream at about 11 p.m. EST on Saturday, Nov. 17. Activity will peak around 5 a.m. Sunday morning, when as many as 13 meteors per minute could be visible, likely for a stretch of time that lasts less than 1 hour. The peak corresponds to 4 a.m. CST, 3 a.m. MST and 2 a.m. PST.

Weren't we talking about this the other day in the context of the ISS. Not exactly, maybe, but it all goes to the same end.

If you take this out of the hands of the government then you can reduce the amount of interference it gets. By all means we should support government interference (in the public interest, of course) during development, but when a technology is well established it should run OK. Leaving it in government hands lays it open to streams of politicians who just can't resist fiddling.

Let's face it - there already is competition in this market. That's why the Russian rockets and Arianes and so on are getting so much of the launch traffic. That's also why people are thinking of building new launch facilities commercially.

Maybe if there is a profit motive behind it for someone, the shuttle will realise its original objective of being a low-cost launch vehicle.

more on the original story here, BTW

Weren't we talking about this the other day in the context of the ISS. Not exactly, maybe, but it all goes to the same end.

If you take this out of the hands of the government then you can reduce the amount of interference it gets. By all means we should support government interference (in the public interest, of course) during development, but when a technology is well established it should run OK. Leaving it in government hands lays it open to streams of politicians who just can't resist fiddling.

Let's face it - there already is competition in this market. That's why the Russian rockets and Arianes and so on are getting so much of the launch traffic. That's also why people are thinking of building new launch facilities commercially.

Maybe if there is a profit motive behind it for someone, the shuttle will realise its original objective of being a low-cost launch vehicle.

more on the original story here, BTW

Weren't we talking about this the other day in the context of the ISS. Not exactly, maybe, but it all goes to the same end.

If you take this out of the hands of the government then you can reduce the amount of interference it gets. By all means we should support government interference (in the public interest, of course) during development, but when a technology is well established it should run OK. Leaving it in government hands lays it open to streams of politicians who just can't resist fiddling.

Let's face it - there already is competition in this market. That's why the Russian rockets and Arianes and so on are getting so much of the launch traffic. That's also why people are thinking of building new launch facilities commercially.

Maybe if there is a profit motive behind it for someone, the shuttle will realise its original objective of being a low-cost launch vehicle.

more on the original story here, BTW

I'm tired of the $2 billion/year ego project that the ISS is.

The goal for ISS is to "conduct the most balanced, efficient, and effective space program". Moreover, it provides unprecendented breakthroughs in research. I think the price tag is worth it.

Others: For more info, read here:

• Spaceviews
• Russian Space Web
• Space.com

Slashdot Editors, I followed a link to find this strange caption... How queer!

Hrm. Go here for updates..

"Breaking News Updates
Wednesday, Oct. 24

11:32 a.m. ET: Hours after Mars Odyssey entered orbit, concerns were raised about the spacecraft smacking into Phobos -- one of two natural moons circling Mars. More data was needed to plot Odyssey's exact orbit. "

That would really suck... get all that way, have a great burn and WHAP.

Damn pesky moons...

11:01 Odyssey turns on its telemetry and begins transmitting data at 40 bits per second. The Deep Space Network will take several minutes to synchronize their equipment with the pattern in the telemetry because of the slow rate at which the data is being received.

Umm... No.

The martian 'ice' caps are CO2 ice, not water ice.

Umm, yes.

Atmosphere: ... water vapor (0.03%), and other trace gases.
Composition: ... and polar caps that are mostly frozen carbon dioxide and some water ice.

"...As the planet chilled the surface water disappeared into underground ice..." (we're fairly certain that there is water around in the form of ice, but how much and where we have no idea.

Also look at what appears to have been recent water flows on Mars in underground sources, "indicating that liquid water may be more available on Mars than was previously thought."

(from here)

Umm... No.

The martian 'ice' caps are CO2 ice, not water ice.

Umm, yes.

Atmosphere: ... water vapor (0.03%), and other trace gases.
Composition: ... and polar caps that are mostly frozen carbon dioxide and some water ice.

"...As the planet chilled the surface water disappeared into underground ice..." (we're fairly certain that there is water around in the form of ice, but how much and where we have no idea.

Also look at what appears to have been recent water flows on Mars in underground sources, "indicating that liquid water may be more available on Mars than was previously thought."

(from here)

Much the way MS DRM v2 has been cracked, scientists have broken God's law of the speed of light. Let's just hope he doesn't get his unholy lawyers on their ass.

Why not NASA-sponsored rocketry competitions?

Why not recruit college students into NASA fellowships?

Why not a whole lot more visits to elementary schools?

Or maybe you'd like to see how:

NASA sponsors high school robotics

or how

NASA flies student designed experiements aboard the shuttle

NASA actually does spend a lot of time and money on reaching out to kids and enthusiasts alike. Yes, there is room for improvement, but give me a break, they are fighting a loosing battle just to get funding to safely deorbit spacecraft. And as for the simplicity of some of the displays at the centers, well I'm sorry that they don't have astrophysicits manning all the exhibits, they're off doing important science and engineering. If you really want to be a space enthusiast, support full funding so they have the money to do even more public outreach.

It was of political importance.

"Can you explain in more detail what this "political importance" was?"
Its simple, we had to beat the soviets to the moon. Its a way of showing that we have a better political/economic system of theirs. Don't you remember a couple of months ago when the JFK apollo tapes were released.
Space.com article "White House Tapes Shed Light on JFK Space Race Legend"

In my opinion going to the moon was a good thing, but it could have been done better if we'd gone slower and worked towards building a longterm or permanent stay on the moon. Still we learned alot about our moon and our solar system, we also gained alot in spinoff technology that needed to be developed to accomplish this task. Still I would have liked to see us go slower to develop a more long term or even permanent mission to the moon, but if we would have tried to go slower we probably would never have gone at all.

Im one of those firm believers in space or bust. Im not apocalyptic by thinking the human species will die out any time remotely soon, we could easily stay on earth as long as life can survive on it. Still extingtion is guaranteed unless we move into space, so why not start now.

Incidentally, some believe that Charon was formed when something struck Pluto in a similar fashion.

As per your request, here's the report.

Old news, was released Sep 24, here's Space.com's report from the following day.

Oh, and this would've been posted earlie, but I couldn't log in, what's up with that?

Now if only the Martian defense force does not get the probe.

;-)

Saw a nice article on Plasma Shields. (Fusion Powered) Then it goes onto Fusion powered flight, but you can tell where this is leading..

Space Travel. :)

Between this technology and LED lighting, cultivators of certain brain-change vegetables will have a much easier time staying out of jail. Let's see: low power, low heat waste, a renewable energy source...now all the world needs is for someone to invent robotic scissors for manicuring the finished product. Cheech and Chong meets Mr. Science!

Larger satellites tend to be plagued by little dints and holes in their solar sails because of these flecks of paint and whatnot. Smaller satellites would be harder to hit (because there's less volume up there in the first place,) HOWEVER the greater density of the devices could make a single unfortunate hit rather catastrophic because it could knock a whole bunch of things out at once.

It's like of like an ultra-powerful shuttlecraft compared to a borg cube. Small centralisation versus big generalisation. Comments anyone?

Looks like around 2000UT, the CME hit our earth, pushing the veolicity up to around 800, and now it's about 750.. if it's clear out where you live, probably, above 55 degrees magnetic latitude will have a good chance of seeing some northern lights.. keep your eye on POES Auroral Activity or space.com's Aurora Cam. Plus, watch spaceweather.com for updates in the next day about the storm

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Fools...

Dancin Santa

Your comment violated the postercomment compression filter. Comment aborted

the link goes to the wrong place. Here is the real site.

This website has many images of the disaster from space. Out of all the images, I found this one the most disturbing.