Slashdot Mirror

Hmmm. Lets see:
1) wiki The Tesla Model 3 is a mid-size (US) / compact executive (EU)[7] luxury all-electric four-door sedan manufactured and sold by Tesla, Inc.
2) Car and DriverHowever, in its current form (only models equipped to a price of $50,000 and up are available as of this writing), it is actually more of a compact luxury sedan competing with the BMW 3-series in size and price.
3) Top Gear What is it? Oh, just some sensibly priced electric BMW 3 Series rival from a little-known American start-up.
4) Motor Trend This shows the luxury compact cars, which includes Tesla model 3.
5) Edmunds There's 15 cubic feet of trunk space, again similar to what other entry-level luxury cars offer.

So, the gov, all the other car makers, and all the experts consider the TM3 to be a compact luxury car. You can claim whatever you want, but ...

Great. It's a shame the two are probably worlds apart in handling, fit and finish, reliability and comfort

Start reading reviews. Here, I'll help - some excerpts and links. Let me know which of these are some sort of Tesla shills:

Motor Trend:

What’s blanching, though, is the car’s ride and handling. If anybody was expecting a typical boring electric sedan here, nope. The ride is Alfa Giulia (maybe even Quadrifoglio)–firm, and quickly, I’m carving Stunt Road like a Sochi Olympics giant slalomer, micrometering my swipes at the apexes. I glance at Franz—this OK? “Go for it,” he nods. The Model 3 is so unexpected scalpel-like, I’m sputtering for adjectives. The steering ratio is quick, the effort is light (for me), but there’s enough light tremble against your fingers to hear the cornering negotiations between Stunt Road and these 235/40R19 tires (Continental ProContact RX m+s’s). And to mention body roll is to have already said too much about it. Sure, that battery is low, way down under the floor. But unlike the aluminum Model S, the Tesla Model 3 is composed of steel, too, and this car’s glass ceiling can’t be helping the center of gravity’s height. Nearly-nil body roll? Magic, I’m telling you. Magic. And this is the single-motor, rear-wheel-drive starting point. The already boggled mind boggles further at the mention of Dual Motor and Ludicrous.

Top Gear:

Gone are the Model S’s projecting doorhandles in favour of nicely crafted aluminium ones that project manually like those on an Aston when you poke one end. Open the door and slide in, and the interior is beautifully simple and uncluttered. The steering wheel features two buttons that adjust everything from the traditional (volume, radio frequency) to the more unique (door mirror adjustment and steering wheel positioning).
***
The car we drove was a Long Range model with all the options list ticked, including the Premium Upgrade Package, featuring leather seats (base models come with fabric), a wooden dash inlay panel that spans the width of the cockpit and the aforementioned glass roof that infuses the interior with a huge feeling of light and space. It’s all simple, elegant, uncluttered and nicely crafted. Before we set off, I jumped in the back and with the driver seat positioned for my 6ft frame, there was still plenty of room in the back for three adults.
***
Our short foray highlighted that the Model 3’s quoted 0–60mph time of 5.1 seconds in this Long Range spec might be underplaying its performance a bit: it’s rapid, and the acceleration is delivered with that lovely linearity and unwavering torque that EVs deliver. The overall feeling of peace and quiet is helped by the minimalist interior but by impressive sound deadening and insulation – the road noise is minimal.

The Verge:

I felt like I was driving in an Eames chair. That was my first impression as I climbed into the driver’s seat of the Tesla Model 3 at the Fremont Factory on Friday afternoon. It took a moment to orient myself — no gauges, no speedometer, no airplane cockpit cues. Instead, one continuous smooth line between myself and the road ahead, offset by natural, unfinished wood. The premium model of the Model 3 caught me off guard. After hearing so much hype about this car, I was surprised that my first reaction was a profound sense of delight. It wasn’t bland, nor sterile, nor cheap feeling. Here was something different. Here was an exercise in min

Another link.

Beat me to the punch ;)

Gravimetric energy density is one of the least important aspects these days. Back in the lead-acid days, improving it it was a huge deal because lead-acids made cars impractically heavy for a reasonable range. Those days are gone. As noted in this post:

The base curb weight of the Tesla Model 3, according to the official press kit, is 3549 lbs, which is 1610kg. 1730kg is the LR version, the heavier version. The BMW 3-Series ranges from 1475-1770kg. The A4 ranges from [wikipedia.org] 1410-1695 kg. I can't find an official total range for the C300, but find values ranging from 1630 kg to 1688kg to 1695kg to 1715kg. While the 1630kg is described as the "base weight" (analogous to the M3's 1610kg), I have no clue what the heaviest C300 config is, there could easily be configurations heavier than the 1715kg one.

To sum up:
Tesla Model 3: 1610-1730kg
BMW 3-Series: 1475-1770kg
Audi A4: 1410-1695kg
Mercedes C300: 1630-1715+kg

To repeat: The Tesla Model 3's curb weight comes in at pretty much the same range as other midrange compact sedans (BMW 3-Series, Audi A4, Mercedes C300, etc).

As for reviews, let's go down the list. By all means, read the full reviews yourself.

Motor Trend:

What’s blanching, though, is the car’s ride and handling. If anybody was expecting a typical boring electric sedan here, nope. The ride is Alfa Giulia (maybe even Quadrifoglio)–firm, and quickly, I’m carving Stunt Road like a Sochi Olympics giant slalomer, micrometering my swipes at the apexes. I glance at Franz—this OK? “Go for it,” he nods. The Model 3 is so unexpected scalpel-like, I’m sputtering for adjectives. The steering ratio is quick, the effort is light (for me), but there’s enough light tremble against your fingers to hear the cornering negotiations between Stunt Road and these 235/40R19 tires (Continental ProContact RX m+s’s). And to mention body roll is to have already said too much about it. Sure, that battery is low, way down under the floor. But unlike the aluminum Model S, the Tesla Model 3 is composed of steel, too, and this car’s glass ceiling can’t be helping the center of gravity’s height. Nearly-nil body roll? Magic, I’m telling you. Magic. And this is the single-motor, rear-wheel-drive starting point. The already boggled mind boggles further at the mention of Dual Motor and Ludicrous.

Top Gear:

Gone are the Model S’s projecting doorhandles in favour of nicely crafted aluminium ones that project manually like those on an Aston when you poke one end. Open the door and slide in, and the interior is beautifully simple and uncluttered. The steering wheel features two buttons that adjust everything from the traditional (volume, radio frequency) to the more unique (door mirror adjustment and steering wheel positioning).
***
The car we drove was a Long Range model with all the options list ticked, including the Premium Upgrade Package, featuring leather seats (base models come with fabric), a wooden dash inlay panel that spans the width of the cockpit and the aforementioned glass roof that infuses the interior with a huge feeling of light and space. It’s all simple, elegant, uncluttered and nicely crafted. Before we set off, I jumped in the back and with the driver seat positioned for my 6ft frame, there was still plenty of room in the back for three adults.
***
Our short foray highlighted that the Model 3’s quoted 0–60mph time of 5.1 seconds in this Long Range spec might be underplaying its performance a bit: it’s rapid, and the acceleration is delivered with that lovely linearity and unwavering torque that EVs deliver. The overall feeling of peace and quiet is helped by the minimalist interior but by impressive sound deadening and insulation – the road noise is minimal.

The Verge:

I felt like I was driving in an Eames chair. That was my first impression as I climbed into the driver’s seat of the Tesla Model 3 at the Fremont Factory on Friday afternoon. It took a moment to orient myself — no gauges, no speedometer, no airplane cockpit cues. Instead, one continuous smooth line between myself and the road ahead, offset by natural, unfinished wood. The premium model of the Model 3 caught me off guard. After hearing so much hype about this car, I was surprised that my first reaction was a profound sense of delight. It wasn’t bland, nor sterile, nor cheap feeling. Here was something different. Here was an exercise in minimalism. Here was the car Elon Musk promised to make 14 years ago.

it's much more similar in refinement to a Dacia or a Hyundai

Not according to literally every reveiwer who has been in in the vehicle, which is over a dozen. A base Model 3 is also more feature-rich than its competitors such as the 3-series (there are also comparisons to the A4 and C300 if you'd like)

Now, you can spout nonsense that doesn't correspond at all to any reviews, but that's not to your credit. Seriously, the concept that a soft-touch sports sedan with a 5,6 second *base* 0-60, eight cameras, a dozen ultrasonic sensors and a radar *standard*, automatic crash avoidance *standard*, and a ton of other things is equivalent to a Dacia... why not just call it a used Yugo while you're at it?

Tesla Model 3: 1740kg (claimed)

Wrong. The base curb weight of the Model 3, according to the official press kit, is 3549 lbs, which is 1610kg. 1730kg is the LR version, the heavier version. The BMW 3-Series ranges from 1475-1770kg. The A4 ranges from 1410-1695 kg. I can't find an official total range for the C300, but find values ranging from 1630 kg to 1688kg to 1695kg to 1715kg. While the 1630kg is described as the "base weight" (analogous to the M3's 1610kg), I have no clue what the heaviest C300 config is, there could easily be configurations heavier than the 1715kg one.

To sum up:
Tesla Model 3: 1610-1730kg
BMW 3-Series: 1475-1770kg
Audi A4: 1410-1695kg
Mercedes C300: 1630-1715+kg

I'll repeat: The Tesla Model 3's curb weight comes in at pretty much the same as its ICE competitors in its class (BMW 3-Series, Audi A4, Mercedes C300, etc).

The abundant test drive reviews disagree with you.

Motor Trend - Exclusive: Tesla Model 3 First Drive Review - Motor Trend

Top Gear- Tesla Model 3 review: first drive of Elon Musk's affordable EV

The Verge - A closer look at Tesla Model 3's spartan interior

The Verge - Tesla Model 3 first drive: this is the car that Elon Musk promised

Bloomberg - Tesla’s Model 3 Arrives With a Surprise 310-Mile Range

Bloomberg[/COLOR] - Driving Tesla’s Model 3 Changes Everything

Car and Driver - 2018 Tesla Model 3: Everything We Know | Feature | Car and Driver

CNET - Tesla Model 3 is well worth the hype

Car Advice - Tesla Model 3 quick drive review | CarAdvice

Fortune - Here’s What Reviewers Think About Tesla’s Model 3 So Far

Ars Technica - All the things the Internet hates about the Tesla Model 3 have me excited

Mashable - Driving a Tesla Model 3 is pretty damn awesome

TechCrunch - Your smartphone is the key for the Tesla Model 3

But hey, feel free to live in your own little world and deny reality to your heart's content.

In these uncertain times, you can't be too careful. We should all be driving armored vehicles, like the Marauder. Top Gear did a wonderful review of the vehicle, showing how practical the Marauder is for normal city driving.

Review part 1
Review part 2

In these uncertain times, you can't be too careful. We should all be driving armored vehicles, like the Marauder. Top Gear did a wonderful review of the vehicle, showing how practical the Marauder is for normal city driving.

Review part 1
Review part 2

Grr, thanks for reminding me that I'm still trying to save up for a used PS3 so I can http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-...

Marketing Literature - Top Gear writeup

Asking because it seems they've used electric motors in a more direct capacity to allow them to ditch a traditional gearbox altogether, and since electric vehicles and supercars are both points of experience for you, you're in a unique position to share insight on where this kind of technology might end up.

It may be people at work were kidding me: However, apparently it is common to drive into the sea at Talinn.
http://www.topgear.com/uk/phot...
http://www.bencoombs.net/page7...
As for temp:
Helsinki Airport recorded a temperature of 34.0 C (93.2 F) on 29 July 2010 and a low of 35.9 C (33 F) on 9 January 1987. - so maybe I'm thinking with wind chill.

Offer them a job and they'll think any way you want them to.

Not really. Watch Top Gear on Saab for a hilarious automotive counterexample, leading to the demise of one of the world's best-loved automakers. Well, by the tiny handful of people who bought their cars, anyhow :)

They cant make anything decent anymore, and even the highest performance car made, the Corvette, is an utter joke to the rest of the world.

Really?

$64,000 question - what's it like to drive?

In a word: stunning. What the 'Vette team has managed to achieve with the C7 is nothing short of astonishing. You basically get three cars in one. It will comfortably cruise all day, mopping up bumps, sipping fuel and generally letting you go about your business without getting in the way. You'd be happy commuting in it. Equally it has the performance - and luggage space under the rear hatch - to handle long journeys with ease. But the really special bit is, without touching anything more than the chassis set up dial, you can take it to a track and have hours of fun, too. topgear

and

Forget all previous Corvette generations - here is the new one. It brings the best Corvette ever produced. A U.S. superstar. A piece of American identity. But most of all she is after 60 years of intense maturity and evolution of one of the most stunning sports car in the world. autozeitung via google translate

I wouldn't consider a range rover hybridized with a 47 hp electric motor vs the 288 hp diesel engine to be 'strong'. To me a 'strong' EV has the electric motor be at least as strong as the engine.

Still, per this article it gives V-8 performance at V-8 cost with V-6 gas mileage.

I think our boys in the UK already solved this problem.

Actually, private citizens are permitted to own tanks in the USA. Lots of paperwork, security checks, and some sort of license is required. All "guns" must be inoperable.

You can have tanks in the UK too.

Ross Noble has a tank – or more accurately an Abbott 433 self-propelled gun – which he brought from a website called Tanks A Lot. 'What's amazing is that you don't have to pay the Congestion Charge,' he told Richard Herring on his Leicester Square Theatre podcast released this week. 'There are no rules about it,' he added. 'The guns are deactivated now, but if they worked, from where I live now, I could hit Gatwick. That's not a threat. That REALLY isn't a threat. But I tell you what, the badger cull in our village is going well. I got the fucking lot...'

http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2013/11/15/19063/ross_noble%3A_tank_commander

I think he talks about it here but I'm at work so I can't really check. http://www.topgear.com/uk/vide...

Can anybody give me a reason not to have stability control where that reasons does not contain “fun” or “because”? (which might be sufficient – just looking for any other reasons.)

'Cause, uh, it's a sports car designed for racing?

Mid-engined cars are designed solely to get around corners fast, and they're extremely unstable compared to your average Ford or Honda. The problem is that many are bought by people who have no clue, and end up in a ditch the first time they take their foot off the gas in a corner.

I have had several mid-engine sports cars, both with and without stability control, and you're wrong, mid-engine is the most stable engine configuration a vehicle can have, otherwise why would F1 cars all be mid-engine?

Mid-engine is so stable that the mid-engine Porsche Cayman is commonly known to be the best handling vehicle money can buy:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-mid-vs-rear-engine-debate-porsche-cayman-r-vs-911-gt3-feature
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-porsche-cayman-cayman-s-first-drive-review
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/the-best-handling-car-in-america-for-less-than-100k-feature
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Porsche_Cayman/Performance/
http://jalopnik.com/is-the-new-porsche-cayman-still-the-worlds-best-sports-333874537
http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/porsche/cayman-coupe/summary/26174-4

http://www.examiner.com/article/porsche-cayman-world-s-best-sports-car


For a good example of why mid-engine is better imagine a shopping cart with a 30 pack of beer in it and pushing the cart from the back. Front engine is equivalent to putting the beer in the very front of the cart and mid-engine is equivalent to putting the beer at the back of the cart. Try both and tell me which is easier to push around a corner.

So what do I think happened? Fluke 1-in-a-million accident that couldn't be repeated if you tried.

Think about it

I've thought about it, I've read books about racing and traction and most important I've used it sucessfully on a race track.

You can read all the books in the world, and tell every anecdote ever, but neither of those things makes you right and the laws of physics wrong.

Why are all four wheels sliding? The answer is because they aren't getting traction.

Wrong again. If they weren't getting traction you would be off the road. The traction is being split between forward and lateral forces. Using it all for lateral traction (cornering) means you aren't using all you can for forward traction. Think vector forces. The more the back end swings out and is still being powered that directional force is towards the center of the corner thereby increasing the corning force.

That's just silly - a tire spinning wildly on top of the pavement in no way gets the same or better traction than one that is not slipping. "Vector forces" be damned, that's just not how physics works, dude. Not to mention, any positive gain made by swinging the back end out is lost the second you need to swing it back in straight after the bend.

Watch closely next time you see formula 1 cars racing. Every car drifts almost every corner. The drift isn't very obvious on the fast corners but is quite noticeable on the slower, sharp corners.

You should either read more or less racing books, because you're confused.

F1 cars are notoriously unstable at low speeds; it's a consequence of how they're made, and the special slicks they use. Just a gnat's hair too much throttle at low speed and you're looking at your own ass end.

Go watch Top Gear (U.K.) Series 10, Episode 8 if you actually want to understand. There's a great segment where Hammond drives (well, tries to drive) an F1 car, and you can see just what I mean about the lack of traction at low speed.

So yea, they "drift" every low-speed corner, but not by choice, and definitely not for any speed advantage.

When you are steering using just that right touch on the throttle it's a thrill like no other. And you get to pass all those other amatures who haven't figured it out yet.

Yea, and enjoy all those "amateurs" laughing their asses off as they load their still-in-one-piece cars on the trailer, while watching yours get removed from that ditch bit by bit.

Just because you haven't run afoul of Murphy yet doesn't mean you never will.

I kinda wonder if the tires were properly inflated and in good condition

Probably, they were.

When Top Gear took a Bugatti Veyron up to top speed, they said the tires would only last a few minutes, but the fuel would give out slightly before then.

My guess is driving that fast puts a lot of strain on the tires, and even if you started off with no warning lights, you'd end up with a couple.

Depending on the rating of the tires, he is likely not even stressing them that badly. I do not know what the Tesla Model S comes with, but I had a car that came stock with Z rated tires. That makes them rated for speeds up to 186MPH. Indeed the tires on my motorcycle are rated to speeds in excess of 186MPH. Now, they will not last that long if they start out under-inflated, as that will cause them to overheat. However, the tire pressure sensor light should not activate due to high speeds. The sensor most likely either failed (lost communication with the controller), or the tire was not properly inflated.

I kinda wonder if the tires were properly inflated and in good condition

Probably, they were.

When Top Gear took a Bugatti Veyron up to top speed, they said the tires would only last a few minutes, but the fuel would give out slightly before then.

My guess is driving that fast puts a lot of strain on the tires, and even if you started off with no warning lights, you'd end up with a couple.

Unlike Slashdot commenters, most Americans live in multiple-car households. If your regular driving is less than the range you're set, because you use the family gas hog for those occasional journeys, or Zipcar.

From the surprisingly favorable Top Gear review, "BMW reckons nearly all i3 buyers will use it as a second car so won't be doing long journeys, and it's optimised to make them efficient and fun."

Pictures and construction details here:
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/bmw-i3-production-car-revealed-2013-07-29 ...and test drive here:
  http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/BMW-i3-first-drive-2013-09-10

Pictures and construction details here:
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/bmw-i3-production-car-revealed-2013-07-29 ...and test drive here:
  http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/BMW-i3-first-drive-2013-09-10

You'd have to somehow get the car in front of the embassy door: inside the building, in a corridor, you'd need a tiny, tiny car that car climb stairs or fit in elevators.

Problem solved!

On good old 18th and 19th century style rails-on-wood-in-pebble ballast. I could drive my dodge caravan around at 100MPH too and call it a high speed sports car....

However, it'd be far more entertaining for the rest of us if you drove it around at 100mph (on good old 18th and 19th century style rails-on-wood-in-pebble ballast) and called it a train... :p

Done by Top Gear

Regardless, Top Gear faked the tests, that's why the results were scripted before they shot the film.

Nothing better than some examples, like the DS5 Diesel electric hybrid with interesting styling.

Nothing better than some examples, like the DS5 Diesel electric hybrid with interesting styling.

53mpg whilst not trying as I recall.
The boys race from Switzerland to Blackpool on one tank of fuel part 1 (series 12, episode 4)
http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/the-one-tank-challenge-1

I'm actually an advocate for taking the action film to its logical conclusion: a film entitled Blowing Stuff Up, about nothing at all, that features at least 90 minutes of well-known stars in a world of explosions, car chases, gun fights, etc doing what they're doing for no particular reason. Hey, at least it wouldn't pretend to be something sophisticated.

Sounds like Top Gear...

Never heard of a Hilux? http://www.topgear.com/uk/toyota/hilux

The Benz version doesn't sound too bad: http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/mercedes-benz-diesotto-engine

But that was 5 years ago so is it vapour-ware?

That isn't the same thing. And, it's Mercedes, so I'm guessing cost was no issue.

The Benz version doesn't sound too bad: http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/mercedes-benz-diesotto-engine

But that was 5 years ago so is it vapour-ware?

American english slang? Seems to be used under the King's English as well: http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/ferrari-288-gto-f40-f50-enzo-donuts-2012-03-21

http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/series-15-episode-2-sports-saloon-challenge-part-2

He lives in London. A car is probably the slowest, most annoying, and most expensive means of transport in this city. Even the car-loving Top Gear guys had to admit it.

then again, sometimes they are correct http://transmission.blogs.topgear.com/2011/04/02/tesla-vs-top-gear-andy-wilman-on-our-current-legal-action/

Assuming you are going 100mph your car produces 60HP? I don't think a 60HP car can do 100MPH.

I think your number is closer to a motorcycle. Granted a nice bike.

A 60bhp car can do 94mph- http://www.topgear.com/uk/ford/fiesta/spec/b4-142292-3

He also said some downright false things, for example that it had run totally flat and had to be pushed back into the garage by the crew to be recharged [...]

He said no such thing, at least in the episode I watched. What he did say was

This car then really was shaping up to be something wonderful. But then... [cuts to shot of the Tesla losing power followed by the car being pushed into the garage] Although Tesla says it does 200 miles, we worked out that it would run out after just 55 miles.

Emphasis and errors are mine.

So yeah, the images were overly dramatic which makes the whole thing seem bigger than it is, but that's not really that uncommon in the news world now is it.

Reference: http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/electric-shocker

Robert Llewellyn should stick to what he is good at: playing a mechanoid with a head shaped like a novelty condom!!!

Tesla have sued Top Gear over that episode. My believe is that Tesla will lose once a court reviews everything that was said, and what happened.

Those of you interested in Top Gear's side of this should read:
http://transmission.blogs.topgear.com/2011/04/02/tesla-vs-top-gear-andy-wilman-on-our-current-legal-action/

Frankly, the idea that a BBC show like Top Gear has a secret agenda because of a sponsor at a roadshow seems a stretch. It's much more likely that Jeremy Clarkeson just hates them.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/space-robin

These guys already beat him to it...

http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/clarkson-tips-over-reliant-robin

Not The Stig. The Beer Commercial.

Also, there are physical limits - racing drivers have to be extremely fit, both for weight reasons, and to handle the forces involved in controlling a race car through corners. Simulators expose none of that.

See the iRacing champion's experience with driving a real race car: http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/geek-rebooted-2010-11-26

'If the Brits really wanted to be tough on crime they would take people's DNA before an offense is committed, and then analyze said DNA to determine if it has any crime genes in it.'

Recent research has shown that the vast majority of criminals carry a single copy of the SRY gene:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRY

but less than half of people in the general UK population do! We should round up these 'SRY carriers' before they can do any more damage, and re-direct their anti-social tendencies into alternative activities that may still be obnoxious, but should be relatively harmless:

http://www.topgear.com/uk/

May has modified cars as part of the show, but does that qualify as "hardware hacking"? Even then, so has Clarkson and Hammond.

In England, we just say "lego", making it its own plural, like sheep. e.g. a house made of lego.

You can build a whole house with Lego if you want to.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/james-may-lego