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The 34-year-old from the Toledo suburb of Holland is held out by McCain as an example of an American who would be harmed by Obama's tax proposals.

I still don't understand why they keep bringing this guy up. He lied in his question to Obama about being in a position to buy his boss' company. His boss' company also doesn't make the level of income that would trigger a new tax under Obama's plan. Joe himself would get a tax cut under Obama's plan. Joe owes back taxes as it is. He's against Social Security. He's not a licensed plumber. Oh, and did I mention his first name isn't even Joe?

"Joe the Plumber" is kind of a lie on a lie. Joe has a fantasy about himself as Mr. Up-And-Coming-Businessman (he's not) being held down by the Man (he's not) who will get screwed by Obama (he won't). And that self-deception has been magnified by McCain into yet another mass Republican Cognitive Dissonance(TM)-- a national party lie standing on the shoulders of one small man's lie.

Good luck in November, guys.

Wow.. And if you would have put a little effort in this, you wouldn't have come out looking like an idiot. We aren't talking about Delegates dumb ass. We are talking about the Super delegates. That aren't the same.

Here are some articles concerning the super delegates that we are talking about. There are/were in 2008, 842 super delegates that had no obligation whatsoever at all to any primary or caucus results. There were 796 unplugged super delegates when Dean made them chose over a risk of losing their voice at the convention. After Dean made his declaration, they _told_ Hillary to stop campaigning when Obama reached the number of delegates required. However, seeing how 441 of Obama's delegates where super delegates and by DNC rules had until the convention months later to decide, Hillary could have easily convinced some of them to goto her camp and Obama wouldn't have gotten the nomination. There is no guarantee that she could have but the rules said that the risk to Obama and the challenge to Clinton should have been there until the convention at the end of August when the votes where counted and if she could have convinced enough of the super delegates to vote for her, she would have had the election.

You cannot deny that. It is fact and hiding behind regular delegates as if your acting ignorant of the facts doesn't make you right or correct. As a matter of fact, rule 9a and 9b speak specifically of the super delegates and their roles in the very links you provided. Of course they listed them as unpledged party leader and elected official delegate as well as add on delegates but I assumed that since you were taking a stand on them that you know this or at least had the wherewithal to google for super delegate in which one of the first pages would have told you about this. I also like the way you think it is perfectly ok to punish democrats of a state that is controlled by republicans who change the timing of the election. That's a bit like citing the passenger of the car for speed and driving without a license because the driver got the ticket. But in the case of preferring Obama, I guess it is worth it, right? And no, I'm not making this up, after the penalty to Michigan and Florida for something that the democrats in the states had no control over, you find that they still favored Clinton over Obama. In fact, the results in Florida was 33.5 Obama to 52.5 Hillary and in Michigan it was 29.5 Obama to 34.5 Hillary. Now if you remember, they cut the delegates in half for Michigan and Florida so Hillary should have gotten 105 in Florida and 76 in Michigan and if the full count would have been listed, Hillary would have had 87 more for a total of 1983.5 which is only 135 below the minimum needed to win. When Dean made his demands, about 320 super delegate votes where up for grabs and some of the already committed super delegates have already switched pledged alliances. Deans own words were The party "cannot give up three months of campaigning and active healing time,"

Don't whine about the political slants of the sites either. I did a simple google search and those are the sites that came up. I'm not getting paid to educate you and I'm not going to invest the time to do it past what is easy for me. You can find the same information on other sites from going deeper into the google search or by even useing a different

So if i beat the crap out of you till you *give* me your PIN number, I then have permission to take the money?

According to Antonin Scalia, police can do just that so why not allow the average citizen to be able to do the same? In fact, Scalia has said that it's perfectly acceptable for police to smack someone around to gain information because it's not punishment for not giving police the information they want. So again, if it's good enough for the police, it's good enough for the average citizen.

Ok, this case doesn't take place in the U.S. but don't worry, I'm sure something like this will turn up eventually.

By distributing, I mean if the girl sends the boy a few pictures of herself. (Assuming that both are under 18).

In that case both could be charged with a felony:
The boy with possession of child pornography, and the girl with producing said child pornography.

A couple of example news articles:
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/webguide/internetlife/2004-03-29-child-self-porn_x.htm
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08157/887288-56.stm

[citation needed]

Indeed... I took the time to read the blog he's pooh-poohing.

I don't care who wrote it and whether it's the same person or not, they have Gerard pegged - he knows his behavior is indefensible, so he's gone into [Personal Attack] mode right here on Slashdot.

This is of course the same David Gerard who's so "nice" that he regularly cusses people out... even when they were right all along.

The evidence is ample. Rather than this mythical "horde" of people who are trying to "ruin" wikipedia while "valiant defenders" like David Gerard stand in their way, wikipedia is simply full of psychopathic game-players who've ruined more articles than they've saved with petty game-playing, internal politics, and a destructive inability to do anything other than engage in edit-wars and ban-wars. The idea that it's an MMORPG, despite a tongue-in-cheek article penned by someone, is pretty apt - the difference being that if some nasty group of psychopaths decides to grief people and "hold territory" in a game like Everquest or World of Warcraft it just ruins someone's day, while when it happens on Wikipedia it has some shitty real-life implications... and not just when talking about biographies either, but on serious issues.

It makes me wonder... what else is David Gerard and the whole Wikipedia administration system trying to hide? How many people have they abused, lied about, and falsely accused of being "sockpuppets" for trying to fix the broken wikipedia system?

How many good contributors have been run off of the project because of people like David Gerard who see sockpuppets at every turn, whenever someone disagrees with certain "privileged" members?

Seeing him in action today has been like seeing some insane, paranoid night watchman who jumps at every shadow. Gerard, give it a rest, take a LONG wikibreak, and for god's sakes clear the names of all the people you have wrongly accused.

The theater ends when the cabin door closes:

Advance #2: Armed uncover agents on board, authorized to shoot-to-kill anybody trying to take over the plane.

Advance #3: armed crew members who will kill you if you somehow get past Advance #2.

anyone know the cost of this new system that will soon be taking our money? these "known issues" were first publicised in 2005 - the same time the IRS made a $200 million dollar error. http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20061205/1a_cover05.art.htm

Worse still are the 17 and younger who are getting charged for child pornography of themselves.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/webguide/internetlife/2004-03-29-child-self-porn_x.htm

Or, well, I suppose you'd be pretty boned if she said she was 18....

How about the waiting list for maternity wards? Last I checked it was over 9 months...

That's a great headline, but in reality, it was in one city during a population explosion due to booming economy.

I've had 2 kids in the last couple years in Vancouver, we had no issue whatsoever getting access to a delivery room nor pre or post care in either case. The overloaded maternity wards was a temporary and localized problem due to a rash of babies being born at once, that could have just as easily happened in the states, and it has.

Indeed...

"The UC Davis Medical Center declared an internal state of emergency Wednesday morning and began turning away all but the most seriously ill and injured patients from the trauma center and emergency room because the hospital is completely full.

Elective surgeries are being postponed to free up operating rooms for patients with life-threatening conditions.

UC Davis -- and other local hospitals -- have been operating close to capacity for much of the year. The rapidly growing population in the Sacramento region, a growing number of uninsured patients who crowd emergency rooms because they cannot get care anywhere else, and a critical shortage of nursing staff are causing the strain. "

http://sacramento.bizjournals.com/sacramento/stories/2003/03/17/daily25.html

Sacramento? Where is that again? Oh... right.

These headline grabbing anecdotes however aren't representative of either system.

I've never seen anyone die in the street because he didn't get his surgery. Get real.

Probably, because "didn't get his surgery" can't be listed as a cause of death on a coroners report.

But this comes pretty close:

"A paraplegic man wearing a soiled hospital gown and a broken colostomy bag was found crawling in a gutter in skid row in Los Angeles on Thursday after allegedly being dumped in the street by a Hollywood Presbyterian Medical Center van, police said."

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2007/02/la_hospital_all.html

Or this:

In Baltimore, Maryland, on July 27, 1998, a 70-year-old man accompanied his daughter to the hospital with a sick child. When they arrived, the man told his daughter he didn't feel well and would wait outside the hospital. Passersby noticed something was wrong and called security. The security officer's log stated: "911 notified intoxicated male ... ER notified (refused)" An emergency medical technician with a private ambulance leaving the hospital initiated CPR while the officer contacted the emergency department for assistance. The emergency department again refused assistance. Another ambulance arrived and transported the man to the ER. About one-half hour after the man was first seen lying in the grass, he was pronounced dead of cardiac arrhythmia.

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/nov2001/dump-n07.shtml

or this:

"In Chicago, Illinois, a 19-year-old patient came to the ER of Provident Hospital of Cook County with symptoms of threatened miscarriage. The hospital sought HMO approval, which was denied. The young woman was not given an exam or treatment. Because of the delay, she began to deliver a nonviable fetus as she waited for a taxi to take her to another hospital."

again from:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/nov2001/dump-n07.shtml

or:

"In 2006, criminal charges were filed against Kaiser Permanente after one of its hospitals was caught on tape dumping a 63 year old women on the street, wearing nothing but a hospital gown, and still very ill."

http://ezinearticles.com/?Crack-Down-on-Patient-Dumping&id=100321

If you haven't studied the world's most barbaric religion (aka islam), you should start yourself.

Begin with the Koran.
Now, work your way through the Hadith - that is, the various collections. The Sunni swear by six collections as "authentic", the Shi'a have four different ones THEY swear by, and then you can get through the various other splinter groups like the Deobandi and Ibadi.

Now work your way through the various pronouncements made by various "Clerics" based on Koran, Hadith, and whatever backwards 7th-century tribal customs they're trying to justify at the time. You know, shit like the 10001 ways to blame a woman for "causing" men to rape her. Because, you know, apparently Arab men are all a bunch of barbaric horndogs who'll rape a woman if they catch sight of an ankle... and heavens, they can't actually be held responsible for their own actions when those evil, vile, temptresses are around. Remember, in the Islamic religion, it's all the woman's fault, and if you want to prove rape you'd better have 4 male witnesses to the penetration in order to prove it in court, or else the woman's guilty of adultery for being raped and should be put to death by stoning.

Done yet? I thought not. You don't know shit about the real Islam, but you dare to claim other people should "study" it. Well, I have, and it is NOT a "religion of peace."

Make sure you have a REAL good understanding of nasikh and mansukh, as well. Half the Koran is actually "abrogated" by the other half. It works not by which order they go in, but by the chronological order in which they were written - which will seriously confuse you about the time you realize that Sura 9 (of 112), the most violent and racist/hate-filled part, was the LAST part written.

As for whether Barack Obama was/is Muslim? I couldn't tell you that. I know he went to a muslim school, because by his own words his mother was told he "made faces during koranic study."

I CAN, however, tell you that it takes a seriously fucked-up mind to decide you adore the polygamist misogynist asswipe who dumped you and your mother on the side of the road and decide he's the object of your adoration, and then decide you hate the race of your mother's family(all based on reading his FIRST autobiography... you know, the one he wrote before he was trying to clean up his image for political reasons) who actually, you know, stood by and raised you. And the last thing I need in the Presidency is a head case.

But why hear it from me? I can back it up with quotes directly from "the savior" himself after all.

"In Indonesia, I had spent two years at a Muslim school, two years at a Catholic school. In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell my mother that I made faces during Koranic studies." -- Barack Obama

"To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully. The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors ...

But this strategy alone couldn't provide the distance I wanted, from Joyce or my past. After all, there were thousands of so-called campus radicals, most of them white and tenured and happily tolerant. No, it remained necessary to prove which side you were on, to show your loyalty to the black masses, to strike out and name names." -- Barack Obama

"That's just how white folks will do you. -- Barack Obama

Perhaps though that's why i like Palin's bio as a cleaner of Alaska's Republican Augean stables and am frustrated by the one-sided coverage of her.

That's your problem. You have this image of her as a corruption fighter, which couldn't be farther from the truth. Like I said, she's just like Gingrich - she didn't take on corrupt figures because she wanted to clean out the system, but because she's a ladder climber who was looking to make a name for herself:

• She takes Bush's peonage appointments and turns it up to 11.
• She tried to ban books and tried to fire the Wasilla librarian when she rebuffed Palin's request for the third time.
• She fires officials that don't support her during elections.
• She requested earmarks that McCain specifically complained about as being wasteful spending.
• She fully supported the bridge to nowhere until Congress said it would have to be paid for with state money, yet took the federal funds anyway. Now she's lying by saying "I told Congress, 'Thanks, but no thanks,' on that bridge to nowhere."
• She illegally uses personal email accounts for state business.
• Abused her position by trying to have her ex-brother in law fired, and when the state commissioner refused, she fired him instead.
• And most dispicably, signed off on charging rape victims for examination kits.

I am SAYING that these are facts, and that reporting them is (of course) fair. My complaint is the failure to report other pertinent facts.

Like those Fox News talking heads that wished that the rest of the media would stop talking about all the bad things happening in Iraq - like bombings that would kill a hundred people at a time, roadside bombs killing our troops, and ethnic cleansing between Shiites and Sunnis - and focus on the positive things like construction of a new clinic inside the Green Zone. I'm sure the women of Iraq who would wear mourning robes for years at a time - another family member would be killed before it was time to take them off - would concur.

With all due respect there's a pretty big difference between being endorsed by a pastor and having someone BE your pastor for over 20 years.

With all due respect you're rationalizing a racist smear. If you watch more than "Goddamn America" soundbyte played on the media, he's speaking about how the United States kept slaves "in perpetuity", the "separate but equal" Dred Scott decision, Jim Crow, forced American Indians onto reservations, interned Japanese Americans during WWII, and the Tuskegee experiments on black men with syphilis. Funny how the media never mentioned that this Angry Black Man hated the United States sooo much he voluntarily gave up his student deferment and served two terms of duty as a Marine in Vietnam, and then re-enlisted as a medical corpsman and was so good he was the valedictorian of his class and was on LBJ's surgical team in 1966.

It is at least conceivable that McCain wasn't fully aware of

Even that's illegal.

Russia is almost immune to this crisis.

I hope you were being sarcastic because Russia is nowhere near immune from what is going on. In fact, they keep closing their stock market because of what's going on.

Actually I've been reading the news and I've visited a few friends that actually know climate research. They assured (and showed) me just how the IPCC arrives at it's conclusions and it's not pretty.

The reality is that about global warming the answer is simple : "we don't know". We truly don't know what will happen.

The only thing we *do* know is that once important factors have changed (the sun's corona, the heater of the earth, has for reasons that baffle everyone, dropped nearly 5% in temperature). This has happened already and we know it's effects. It's gonna be a fucking cold winter, and probably a fucking cold decade.

If we're not lucky it's gonna be a fucking cold century. But no worries. It's only 15 years ago that the somewhat less stable democrats were screaming "a new ice age is upon us", and they can go back to doing that, right ?

Temperature, in case you haven't noticed, has already dropped right back to 1980 levels, and the graph looks like temperature is falling off a cliff. I remember the winters of the 1980's. I was a toddler then. The entire country was covered in snow for months.

The news is a joke. Has been so for a long time.

The sky is not falling and gaia is not killing us for using too much electricity. Truly sorry.

None of this also changes the fact that Al Gore knowingly used fraudulent research to advance his political position. Bush has never done anything of the sort.

And we all know Al Gore's real climate worries.

I can not for the life of me figure out why anyone would care

Funny thing about electronic privacy - its like pandora's box, once you let information about you out in to the world, there is no way you ever are stuffing it back in the box. You've heard it before - information wants to be free. The corollary of that is nobody is forgetting ways to abuse your personal information, rather people are constantly dreaming up new ways to take advantage of it.

Thus unless there is some overwhelming advantage to showing the world that you played dodgeball at the company piknik on 7/12/99 or that you work for Yoyodyne corp in bumfuck IL it is clearly not in your best interests to do so, because you don't even know what it will eventually cost you.

Where is the issue? do you privacy nuts also behave the same way in daily life? if so it's a surprise you have any friends at all, if they ask you what you did this weekend do you make them sign a non-disclosure agreement?

Posting your information online makes it IMMEDIATELY available to EVERYBODY. Talking to someone in a one-on-one situation only makes your information available to one person whom you know. Would you tell a mugger or a house robber that you plan on spending the next week-end out of town? You might as well if you post it to facebook.

in that case do you also slam the door on the census taker?

Yes

He's more of a cowboy than Al Gore. He's more likeable than Al Gore.

And if you're honest, he doesn't pull Scientific frauds.

(And yes, Al Gore used this argument, which has been proven to have been constructed fraudulently many times).

Meanwhile, the sun's corona is at a historical low temperature. If the sun really does control temperature, we'll know in the coming year.

(and there's no serious scientist doubting it's going to be a VERY cold year, and most are talking 5 or 10 years with the oddball out about a cold 200 years (like the last time the sun did this))

Not that we don't all know very well just exactly how worried Al Gore is about the climate

I just watched the video last night. I don't remember any political candidate being mentioned, and I was waiting to pounce on any such event.

You mean apart from the "smears" attempting to say that one of the two candidates is Muslim? Put together, its insinuating that he's a head chopping radical. If this weren't attempting to affect the election, why was it only being sent to "swing state" voters?

I'm working with a nice young lady from India today. I have conversations with the Korean lady across the aisle almost daily (even though she works in different group). A Vietnamese gentleman trained me for my current position. I'm Native American (I would say Indian, but that would bring confusion with the first sentence of this paragraph), and my teammate is white.

You can't use the "I too have multicultural friends, and that keeps me from being a racist" defense.

I would say that it is you that needs to get over your 1950's view of American race relations. The horribly racist and xenophobic image comes from being force-fed stories of the actions of a very small minority.

So, Americans aren't racist at all? And we're not xenophobic at all?

On the other hand, the movie, Obsession, has extensive clips from Muslim leaders openly calling for murder of non-Muslim peoples. They have clips of this being aired by Muslim broadcaster Al-Jazeerah (sp?). Another poster called the video one-sided. The movie claimed 15% of the Muslim population as believing that violence is a valid way to spread the Muslim faith.

So, a partisan think tank comes up with a movie designed to scare the shit out of people, and you believe their "15%" statistic, which isn't backed up *anywhere*? And the leaders you speak of .. their rhetoric is any different than the people here who would love to kill all Iranians?

It said most Muslims believe the extremist to be crazy wackos (my term), but most are held in check by fear.

Yes, and black people are going to kill whitey, but are afraid of the man. That's also not supported by anything.

I, for one, can't blame them for remaining quiet. We've seen bombings all over the place, most of them done by Muslims.

You're referring to the active warzone in Iraq, or elsewhere? Perhaps we can blame the attacks in Georgia on the Muslims as well?

Being open to everyone is cool, until they start strapping on the explosive vests. So, having said that, how do I walk the line between being open and not getting blown to pieces?

And which particular movie were you watching when you thought of the "explosive vests"? How many non-warzone bombings have taken place with "explosive vests"? Look, it's okay to be scared, but blaming a large group of people for the actions of a very small minority ... is called racism.

I'm going to assume this is a troll, since it's very poorly backed up.

"The majority of the "fakes" are misapplied trademarks."

You ignored the stories linked in the grandparent post.

Here's another link, about deliberate poisoning of food to make more money: Filler in Animal Feed Is Open Secret in China.

And another: Melamine in pet food may not be accidental.

I'm surprised you were modded funny instead of "interesting". Lets talk about off shore drilling for a minute: "The Hawkes say they were four weeks away from launching the "Deep Flight Challenger" when news came of Fossett's disappearance."

From: http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2008-07-13-offshore-drilling_N.htm
Environmental hazard or energy bonanza: Oil and natural gas trapped beneath the USA's ocean floor mean different things to different people. As gasoline soars beyond $4 a gallon, President Bush and his would-be Republican successor, John McCain, see a viable source of domestic production. Democrat Barack Obama and the nation's environmentalists see a threat to pristine waters and beaches -- and little help at the pump from offshore drilling.

If you solve a problem, you cannot use it as an issue to win an election.

But the abortion-rights lobby decided that it would be far too traumatic for a woman to hear, "I'm sorry, I can't fill this prescription, but Joe's pharmacy down the street can."

I'm sure that wouldn't be too traumatic, but what about when a pharmacist not only refuses to fill the prescription, but also refuses to have it transfered or give it back to the woman to take down to Joe's?

Oh really?

http://www.randomhouse.com/modernlibrary/100bestnovels.html

#13 1984 George Orwell, all time according to this list.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2008-01-16-top-100-books_N.htm

If you split up sci-fi and fantasy, then the first on this list is #16 Eclipse, a modern-day sci-fi story about vampires. If you keep them together, then Harry Potter would come in at #11; or for a "pure" sci-fi novel, I Am Legend comes in at #72 due to its re-release for the movie.

http://home.comcast.net/~antaylor1/waterstones100.html

Waterstone took a survey to find what people considered to be the 100 best novels of the past century; #1 is Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, #2 is Orwell's 1984 and #3 is Orwell's Animal Farm.

Finally, the current Amazon top 100:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/books

As of this writing, the current #1 in book sis Brisingr, a fantasy novel by Christopher Paulini; again, if you consider fantasy and sci-fi to be the same. If you don't, then #5 is Twilight is another vampire novel set in the modern day or #52 Anathem, is a "pure" sci-fi book.

So...which lists of best books or novels were you looking at?

As the President of the United States, do you anticipate difficulty making ends meet on a 400,000 dollar salary?

or

How do you reconcile Congress's 25% approval rating with their yearly self appointed pay raise?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-01-09-Raise-me_N.htm
Do you expect a similar adjustment to their pay in the coming year?

here's one:

In the light of the current credit crisis, it is often stated that we have to bail out our financial market, or terrible things will happen. Can you help us understand, in terms of human lives lost per dollar saved, the decisions behind Katrina, universal health care, Iraq, immigration reform, and the bailout of the financial sector?

Yea yea, I violated the one question per post rule, but I doubt they'd post these anyways.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2001-04-03-floridamain.htm#more

MSU's 269 votes would have not swayed the election to Gore except in on one standard and it was not a standard being used in Florida (specifically Palm Beach) or promoted by Al Gore's lawsuit.

Oh, and can we stop talking about this now?

it doesn't do a god damn thing but pick up viruses and trojans on first boot

The Windows Firewall has been pretty good since XP SP2. The old "pwned in 4 minutes" scenario hasn't existed in years. http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/2004-11-29-honeypot_x.htm

1. You must be speaking about a different McCain and Palin, the ones I see denounced their own party over those very same old policies and corruption scandals.

2. Show me a case where McCain's or Sarah's personal views worked their way into their policy, because that article doesn't.

3. Since when was net neutrality a good thing? You want to tell other people how to use their private property? Change the way the Internet has worked since the beginning? There are no signs net neutrality regulations are absolutely necessary, or would do any better then the current situation, popular opinion and existing legislation seems to be working quite nicely. And do you mean this McCain was funded by the telcos? Over a ban on taxes? Being the two time chair of the Senate Commerce Committee, who do you propose the telcos should have given money to?

For everyone who thinks Barack Obama is a corporate whore and they think that McCain is a better choice:

1. McCain and Sarah Palin are good buddies with the guy who calls the Internet a series of tubes, Ted Stevens.

2. McCain and especially his running mate feel strongly that their religious beliefs should definitely play into any decision on science, going so far as to use their own personal religious beliefs to define their scientific policy in the past. Despite what they tell you this week.

3. McCain and Palin have been solidly against Net Neutrality since the very beginning, and are solidly funded by the major telcos.

Yeah, the same government that has decided in some school districts that "Tag" is a violent game and kids might get hurt playing it and so it's not allowed to be played there anymore during recess.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-06-26-recess-bans_x.htm

"David Webster, Microsoft general manager of brand and marketing strategy, says Microsoft had "to take back the PC brand and tell the truth about it." referring to Microsoft's latest ad that hits back at the Apple commercials. Like -- they own the PC brand now? OK -- We can admire someone who stands up for himself succinctly when picked on. Apple will never be able to use the "I'm a PC" line again now. However, in this ad Microsoft tries to appropriate the commons with a sinister attempt to hijack the PC. They want to confuse general public into thinking -- if it doesn't have Windows, it's not a PC. Is there an appropriate way to inform the public that the PC is an open platform that can run many other operating systems?

everybody wins (except for people who want the Olympics to be about something other than corruption and greed, but that's already a lost cause).

Don't forget the sex.

Well gosh, according to this pew study more than half of the fundies believe that more than half of everyone will go to heaven..

I guess they think the rest of us are assholes...But I digress.

The real worry about the Fundamentalist in power is the massively irrational decision making process. I mean, if you had a born again president, he might (hypothetically) take the first opportunity to invade a couple of muslim countries in the name of Go...er...I mean "freedom".

If you think that the world was created in 6 days, then you, frankly, are too ignorant to be president. It is as simple as that. We can't trust you with anything technological, because you clearly aren't wired to accept it.

Also, a difference between 'dumb' and 'uneducated about financial matters.' Is there a class on ARMS in high school people can take? I don't think those are covered in home ec.

Also, don't forget that Alan Greenspan was going around the country telling us that Hey, ARMs are a great deal. It's so easy to blame the victim.

The vast majority of his chemical weapons were destroyed under the watch of the UN after the first Gulf War. This is well documented for anyone who cares to look. The whole argument was over the few weapons that couldn't be accounted for because of bookkeeping errors and the regular amount of chaos that happens after your country is bombed to hell. Bush did lie about the status of those weapons for political reasons, just like Clinton did in 1998, but at least Clinton had the sense not to try and take over the whole country.

You can't prove any of these were lies. E.g. the yellow cake allegation is something which MI5 still believes but the CIA doesn't. Iraq had bought yellowcake from Niger in the past, after the first Gulf War the IAEA found 400 tonnes of it. Following the invasion US troops found it, and shipped it off to a Canadian uranium producer.

Polish troops actually found Sarin
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-07-01-poland-iraq-sarin_x.htm

Insurgents actually tried to use it against US troops
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3722255.stm

And obviously Saddam used gas on both the Kurds and Iranians.

And the Iraqis used missiles against coalition forces in Gulf War II. They'd destroyed their long range missiles in secret. This is what I think happened

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMD_theories_in_the_aftermath_of_the_2003_Iraq_War#Saddam_lied_to_retain_power
On 14 December Saddam Hussein was captured by U.S. forces. Time Online Edition reports that in his first interrogation he was asked whether Iraq had any WMDs. According to an official, his reply was:

"No, of course not, the U.S. dreamed them up itself to have a reason to go to war with us." The interrogator continued along this line, said the official, asking: "if you had no weapons of mass destruction then why not let the U.N. inspectors into your facilities?" Saddam's reply: "We didn't want them to go into the presidential areas and intrude on our privacy."

Of course in retrospect WMDs were a brilliant casus belli for the US to choose. There's absolutely no way a regime like Saddams would be willing to tell the UN weapons inspectors enough about WMDs to convince them that it had disarmed.

Don't worry, they're already hard at work fretting about the end of the world: Dec 21, 2012. http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2007-03-27-maya-2012_n.htm

The [main hybrid battery] has no user-serviceable parts and can kill you if you're careless.

Do you really think that will stop people trying?

On a side note, the "normal 12V car battery" can kill you just as easily. If not easier (700+A vs 6.5A). Volts don't kill you, amps do.

Considering that we force feed cows and chickens the meat bi-products of the industry.

That's been illegal in the U.S. for cows for many years. I'm not sure about the current law for chickens. From a 2003 USAToday article:

The United States and Canada in 1997 made it illegal to feed cows meat and bone meal made from ruminants. The feed bans in both countries do allow use of that feed for poultry and pigs.

It is also illegal here in Australia. However there is a _minority_ of farmers (you know the real redneck hicks) that don't care and will do anything to save a few pennies and just 'cause 'those city slicker politicians' tell them it's illegal they do it anyway because those other city slickers (the scientists) don't know what they're on about y'know.

Considering that we force feed cows and chickens the meat bi-products of the industry.

That's been illegal in the U.S. for cows for many years. I'm not sure about the current law for chickens. From a 2003 USAToday article:

The United States and Canada in 1997 made it illegal to feed cows meat and bone meal made from ruminants. The feed bans in both countries do allow use of that feed for poultry and pigs.

I don't usually reply to my own posts, but while looking around further, I found this chart showing the actual federal dollars spent among the states. It also includes spending for the District of Columbia (58.6 BILLION DOLLARS). Alaska received such a small amount that there isn't enough room on the graphic to even write the state's name. The USA Today article referenced in the grandparent post doesn't mention total federal spending per state.

This kind of bullshit -- trying to show that Alaska is a boondoggle dollar sponge by listing per capita breakdown of a portion of federal spending per state instead of actual totals -- is why people think that the mainstream media is in the tank for Obama.

Mod parent up -- the real story behind Bristol Palin's pregnancy is that in an era where 95% of Americans have premarital sex, we still have high-ranking politicians who think that abstinence-only sex ed is a good way to address teen pregnancy and the spread of STDs. That level of disconnection from reality *is* a good argument against electing her and McCain.

If oil were to shut down tomorrow, Alaska would be hurting, but it wouldn't become like a 3rd world nation or anything - it would continue to have a steady source of revenue.

Yeah. In the form of welfare from the federal government.

Interesting but False.

From an USAToday story [1], "Among the big telecommunications companies, only Qwest has refused to help the NSA, the sources said. According to multiple sources, Qwest declined to participate because it was uneasy about the legal implications of handing over customer information to the government without warrants."

[1] http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm

If we were to increase the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere to 0.5%, there's no way green plants could handle it

Actually science has shown it works both ways. Some plants grow slower in a CO2 enriched environment whereas others grow faster. For instance Poison ivy grows faster and bigger with higher atmospheric levels of CO2.

Falcon

Which tier 2 standard are you referring to? 2004? 2007? 2009? They are drastically different removing less fuel efficient classifications as we move forward meaning that the U.S. is actually doing something and without the requirements of Kyoto.

Standards are also not uniform everywhere. California which has more than a few vehicles has very strict regulations which most cars here in Arizona will also meet since California is our neighbor.

California has the strictest standards in the world. For your consideration.

Newer California Emissions expanding to ships as well. The east coast is getting in on it too.

Where do you get that China has stricter standards than the U.S.? I can't control the idiots that buy fuel inefficient vehicles that never use it to its fullest extent. My neighbors for instance though have a truck to pull their boat on weekends and regular passenger cars they drive during the week. This is increasingly common.

I don't see how the Euro 4 is stricter than current Tier 2 regulations, both have the exact same specifications for low sulfur fuels.

> The trains will be powered by the bodies of dead slave laborers ....

USAtoday says:

North America's four major rail networks -- Norfolk Southern, CSX, Union Pacific and Canadian National -- all own lines that were built and operated with slave labor.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/general/2002/02/21/slave-railroads.htm

That's funny, because its only been in the past year that there has been talk of recession.

You really need to check your facts.

At what point can we start to consider that the shitty decisions from Bush & company are helping to drive the US economy into the shitter?

That would be the economy now that Bush is helping damage. I was talking about the recession set up during Clinton that hit just after he got out of office and how you only remember him for the boom.

Funny though, the Clintons never reaped anywhere near the magnitude of profit and campaign contributions from the Saudis and their companies as did the Bushes.

And you still miss the point that the movie lied.

Certainly debatable.

No, it is not debatable. Moore's cuts definitely diverged from the reality of the situation. In other words, he lied.

He made that choice because people were blaming Columbine on all sorts of other things (video games, music, etc...) when really they needed to look at themselves./blockquote>That was a valid point. So why the need to lie to make it?

You're splitting hairs on the Flint-Davison "controversy".

Yeah, somebody from Beverly Hills says "I'm from LA." Flint was a dump, Moore grew up someplace much nicer. It is an issue because Moore tries to make a connection with the audience by saying he grew up in that town that was hurting, when he didn't.

Yeah, that won't have any anti-Moore bias. I'm sure we can trust that movie to be accurate.

It was so easy to predict your response. And we know Moore has a bias so we can trust him? In that movie the bank employees who were there, you can recognize them, flat-out said Moore misrepresented the situation. This movie was made because a young film maker saw the movie, saw the lies in it, and wanted to expose them.

Back on your false "Moore didn't support Nader" claim maybe you should watch that movie and see Moore standing in front of a Nader 2000 podium giving a speech for Nader.

In that there is Moore in context saying that it is "not true" that he changed the order in the Heston speech. Moore lies to cover up, at least you just try to spin.

If you had watched the movie, you would know that he didn't walk out with the gun. He stood in front of the bank with the gun. He never said they handed it to him in the bank.

This is just insane. You have this blind love for Moore that is warping what you see. I just replayed the scene to confirm since I have the movie. A man with jeans and a blue shirt hands Moore a rifle, Moore cycles the action and talks with him. Later is a view of the front of the bank. Moore walks out quickly, raises the gun high in his right hand with a big grin on his face before the door closes behind him, puts the gun on his shoulder and walks away to the right past the camera. You've been all over the map trying to defend this scene, and now you're reduced to simple lying.

After all, why would someone who calls them "faux documentaries" "full of lies" want to sit through them?

Because I liked Moore and didn't know they were full of lies when I saw them.

And for that matter, you make it sound as if the "laws" that "require the meeting" are held so unflexibly that the NRA never had a chance of petitioning to re-schedule.

Now you're just getting ridiculous and purposely obtuse. Why does there always have to be blame? We're supposed to expect legislators god knows how many decades ago to foresee exactly this circumstance? The NRA got stuck in the circumstances. The New York state laws of incorporation state they MUST hold meetings accord

Even if you word the question in a way to try to give them an "out" by opting for some sort of theistically-guided evolution (the official modern position of the Catholic and Orthodox churches and many mainline Protestant ones), and try to tie down creationism specifically to young-earth creationism (humans were created within the past 10,000 years), a plurality of Americans, nearly a majority, opt for creationism.

The wording Gallup has been using for years when asking the question is this:

"Which one of the following statements come closest to your views about the origin and development of human beings? Humans developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God guided this process (or) Humans developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life, but God had no part in this process (or) God created humans pretty much in the present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so?"

The results in 2007 were: 30% for God-guided evolution, 13% for without-God evolution, and 48% for "created in present form within the last 10,000 years".

On the plus side, and contrary to what you might expect, fewer creationists than fans of evolution consider it an issue determining their vote. In 2007, 15% of people said they'd be more likely to vote for a presidential candidate who did not believe in evolution, whereas 29% said they'd be less likely (53% said it wouldn't make a difference to their vote). So adopting a creationist position is a net loss for politicians on a national scale.

This happened in NY City in 2004 during the Republican Convention although the police waited until the convention had started. My brother was one of the thousands swept up in the sweeps the police did to clear protesters from the street. His lawsuit is still pending, most likely he will wind up with a nice settlement, but the goal was to get these "troublemakers" off the street and that was accomplished. The same marching orders are likely in effect for the Republican Convention this year, and by the time the lawsuits are settled in four years the next election will be on the horizon. Kind of depressing that the police can get away with this bs.

Your example does not show the change of one specie into another. THAT is what Evolution is - not your example of adaptive (to diet) changes.

Genetic change in humans can be as simple as children being better looking than their parents. This doesn't make them another species (though some parents might believe their children are another species for other reasons).

In the article they mention 24,000 generations of E. coli. Guess what? After 24,000 generations they are still E. coli ; they haven't evolved into another specie they have merely adapted to their food cycle. Humans are capable of the same adaptive changes.

For example, there are multiple paths to becoming obese: food and the endocrine system. Then there are people who have adapted to eating very little food.

Ultimately, the article you linked to, shows that what they are doing is not the observation of one specie becoming another because they

...forced them to evolve back into [their original] form...

It seems the scientist who described the observed adaptations are stuck on proving Evolution instead of understanding the (adaptive) capacities of a species and have thus credited Evolution for what what is merely the natural ability of the E. coli specie.

Which is why,even though he has no chance of winning now,I'm voting 3rd party with Barr. We here in AR have managed to vote some Green Party candidates in thanks to being disgusted at the "good ole boy" Dems and Repubs that seem to be in a race to see who can screw you over quicker,and maybe if enough of us show our disgust by voting 3rd party we can not only chance the level of crappiness in the Dems and Repubs,but we might even get some decent 3rd parties,which lets face it,is something we desperately need.

And as for the person that voted my parent post offtopic,wow. I know there are some who will forgive Obama for ANYTHING,but if you are going to mod down at least show a brain and mod down correctly. Considering the fact that the post I was replying to was saying "we can fix it by voting" the post was most certainly NOT offtopic,so if you had wanted to try to mod me away you should have chosen troll. Not that it will matter anyway,since my karma has been at excellent for ages due to the fact that folks like having someone who honestly speaks their thoughts instead of spewing groupthink.

So downmod away,it won't change the fact Obama LIED. He said "I am against spying" LIE, he said "I'm for change" LIE. Hell,he picked a guy as is running mate who called him "The first bright and clean" black man to run for president. Can you get more racist? Hell he couldn't have picked a bigger insider if he dug up Strom Thurmond and ran him! So stick your head in the sand and pretend Obama is different than McSame,but the simple fact is his Hope and Change BS is "He hopes that you don't see the only change he wants is a Democrat in the White House". And I give thanks and credit to the poster on the "Obama picks Biden" thread(Sorry I don't know your handle!) who came up with the Hope and Change line. Sadly,just like him,I believed in Obama and also put my money where my mouth was only to get screwed with FISA and Biden. But as always this is my 02c,YMMV

"Because, when Democrats run women, it's based on a long history of, y'know, actually having supported women's issues."

What "women's" issues? You mean liberal issues. You're assuming that most women are liberal and agree with those issues. In 2004 though, married women voted Republican by 2 to 1. A wedding ring on a woman's finger was a huge indicator that she was voting for Bush. The most staunch pro-life people I know are women. There's a reason why most women aren't members of feminist groups like NOW. They don't identify with "feminism". Go look at photos of the big abortions marches in Washington DC. You'll see just as many women on the pro-life side as you do on the pro-choice side.

Here's a shocking fact for you... women are just like men in that they have different ideas and different factions, different hopes and different fears. There are issues that are of interest to most women, but very few of them are owned by any one party.

Stupid assumptions like this are one reason why Republicans have won 9 out of 14 Presidential elections since 1952.