Slashdot Mirror

Germany was quite peaceful in 1939, thanks to its strong military and authoritarian government.

You mean other than demands of land from neighbors, and invasions of Czechoslovakia, Austria, Lithuania - and of course the 1936 militarization of the Rhineland? That peace?

Remind me why that genocide deserves all of the attention versus Armenian, Darfur, etc genocides?

It does not, nor does it receive it. The Holocaust museum in DC has sections on their website devoted to providing information on current genocide in the hopes of stopping it. Perhaps you should do some research before you rant?

I fail to see what the problem is. Would it have been better to test it on humans...

The problem is this gives the PETA crowd more ammunition for their "animal testing = BAD!" agenda. There is little scientific knowledge to be gained by slightly poisoning a few monkeys, and it sounds disturbingly close to what Germany was doing to Jews during the Holocaust.

Thing is, there are legitimate reasons to test things on animals. You want to be pretty damn sure your experimental drug isn't going to kill anyone when you start human trials. But good luck trying to convince a bunch of emotion-driven PETA morons why it's necessary, when they start chanting about saving monkeys from the gas chamber.

Seaworld is going through exactly the same crap. They actually do a lot of good educating the public about marine life conservation, and they even rescue injured/stranded animals in the wild. But ask any "drain the tanks" activist and all they see is "Blackfish".

There is.

"First they came for the Nazis..."

Hilarious that this is being used unironically in defense of nazis now, considering that it's a paraphrasing of a quote about being persecuted by nazis.

But maybe if we keep defending and coddling nazis, the original context will become more relevant again.

I was expecting many of these records to be accessible only in paper form, but five minutes of searching found these examples already:
- Holocaust Survivors and Victims Database
- 650,000 pages of the Nuremberg Trials records are available online
- More digitized records, again including death lists from camps.

Regardless of whether or not conspiracy theorists have picked up the topic of Holocaust denial, it was invented and primarily pushed by Nazis and Nazi apologists. See this.

Nazi party created by Hitler is illegal for reason that it systematically killed at least 18 million people and caused massive industrial warfare on a scale not seem before or since.

Hitler - no, he never did. The NAZI's cut ties with the labour unions before he ever even joined the party.

Hitler didn't 'join' the National Socialist Party in Germany, he essentially created it. As for labor/trade unions:

"MAY 2, 1933
NAZIS SEIZE CONTROL OF TRADE UNIONS
Storm Troopers (SA) and police occupy the offices of trade unions. Trade union officials and activists are terrorized. The trade unions' records are impounded and their assets seized. The unions are forcibly merged with the Nazi organization, the German Labor Front. Independent labor representation is thus abolished."

https://www.ushmm.org/outreach...

Strat

I know that people call him racist, but he has been against "illegal" (which is not a race) and urges caution in terms of Islam (once again, not a race, but a religion that creates more than 90% of terrorists).

Has he said something else that I have missed?

Donald Trump: "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people." So being a Mexican immigrant means you're either a drug dealer or a rapist according to Trump. That's racism.

Donald Trump: "But you have people coming in and I'm not just saying Mexicans, I'm talking about people that are killers and they're coming into this country." And that's xenophobic.

Donald Trump: "Likewise, tremendous infectious disease is pouring across the border." Linking a community with disease. Where did I hear this before?

Donald Trump: "I’ll take jobs back from China, I’ll take jobs back from Japan. The Hispanics are going to get those jobs, and they’re going to love Trump.” Treating hispanics like dogs he can throw a bone to, that's racist too.

Donald Trump: "No surprise that China was caught cheating in the Olympics. That's the Chinese M.O. - Lie, Cheat & Steal in all international dealings." Note how he said it's the "Chinese modus operandi", not the "Chinese *government* M.O.". Claiming 1+ billion people are liars, cheaters and thieves, just for their ethnicity or the country they live in is racism.

Has Trump ever actually issued a call for violence? If so, I must have missed it.

Well he certainly did against protestors at his rallies.

But more importantly, "Donald Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States." and "Donald Trump said that he would 'absolutely' institute mandatory registration." So he says he will use the force of law to discriminate on the basis of religion. In other words he is against freedom of religion and against the bill of rights.

While those are not direct threats of violence, it's already too much for someone who wants to be the chief of the world's most powerful army.

Every decade another million is added to the total.

Jews keep inflating the numbers every chance they get.

Come on Germany, ban slashdot now

Bullshit. You're wrong.
The number has been steady at six million jews killed for several decades now.
If anything, the number has gone down since the 1960's

Here's a typical example.
The USA Holocaust Museum says six
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/ar...

The Wiesenthal Center, which is about as jewish as is possible to be, says six million.
http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/si...

60 million is the number now?

Yes, 60 million is the number "now". Are you implying that at some point in the past almost 70 years, fewer people were thought to have died in WWII?

Let me guess, if I don't believe your statements

There are 5 references to the original crime, and a sixth to the definition of the actual definition of the crime committed. You gave 0 references.

Here's some more references for the specific number of 60 million deaths broken down by country:
http://www.nationalww2museum.o...
http://necrometrics.com/20c5m....

If you want to propose your own number, cite or shut up.

I should be thrown in jail?

Quit being a drama queen. You are literally the only person on this thread to mention jail or prison in this entire thread as of the time of writing. We get it; you're offended that people aren't neutral on the subject of Joseph Goebbels. You can get over it.

If you don't care about him orchestrating war crimes, maybe you will accept he's a criminal due to him murdering six children (his own children) before his sucide? Cite: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.... Those were by his own hand.

Here's a philosophical question. What's worse, murdering your own children by your own hand, or intentionally causing the deaths of 60 million people (the vast majority of whom should be presumed innocent of any crime), but at arm's length? I'd go with the latter, but they are both pretty damned bad.

The only reason he wasn't tried for war crimes was he was already dead:

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/ar...

The IMT decided not to try them posthumously so as not to create the impression that they might still be alive.

It's not like it's unusual to not press charges on dead people. It doesn't do much good to anybody. Pretty safe bet he'd have been convicted.

It's not like this was an accident, that he couldn't have known what he was doing. It's certainly not thought crimes. We don't know Goebbels' thoughts, we know his actions.

I know this may be ancient history to you, but it really wasn't that long ago.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/ar...

You should always fight expansion of powers as they can be used by bad actors just as easily as good actors.

Your choice of how the United States saved Jews from the Nazi holocaust by allowing them to immigrate is a poor example:

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007652

Beginning in 1940, the United States further restricted immigration by ordering US consuls to delay visa approvals on national security grounds. After the United States entered the World War II in December 1941, the trickle of immigration virtually dried up, just as the Nazi regime began systematically to murder the Jews of Europe. Despite many obstacles, however, more than 200,000 Jews found refuge in the United States from 1933 to 1945, most of them before the end of 1941.

But, yes, we have a massive statue. The words on it may have to be updated though: "Give us your tired, your poor, your low-wage workers."

This is privacy advocates' worst nightmare. Okay, nazi-style mass murder of people with certain thoughts and opinions enabled by the scarlet letter that is all the data Google keeps on all of us is privacy advocates' worst nightmare. But this is how it starts.

When Google eliminates the middle men, do you think prices go down? Only for some, and then only for a very short while until the competition is out of business. And this process is accelerated by high rates for high risk individuals. High risk for payouts that is, which is not always the same as high risk for society. For example:
* Visit a lawyer's website recently. You're more likely to sue when we underpay your claim. Let the competition have you.
* Liked something by Ron Paul on Google+? Some Google analyst thinks he found a correlation between that and higher claims. Your rates go up.

Big Data makes insurance rates in the best case arbitrary (when they misidentify factors that supposedly relate to insurance risk) and in the worst case discriminatory and a method for punishing people financially for behavior we all supposed was constitutionally protected (when they accurately identify behavior, like advocating for tax reform that actually benefits the middle-class, that those who control the few big companies with the big data don't like). Hopefully the ACA will prevent this in the health insurance market by mandating a rate based only on geography, age and smoker status. But I'm sure they can easily marginalize people who oppose their ideas using just auto, homeowners and liability insurance.

They say we should vote with our dollars. But we're obviously far outnumbered in such a battle. And the very wealthy don't so much vote with their dollars as they wage outright war with them. Imagine your homeowners and auto insurance rates quadrupling because of the places you go, websites you visit and company you keep (online and otherwise). While less explicit, the end result isn't much different than the Nazi's Nuremberg Laws or or laws limiting property ownership to white males with family histories.

Thanks for nothing, first amendment. Soon we'll have to exercise #2 instead.

Apparently you haven't heard that the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is a forgery.

Protocols of the Elders of Zion: Timeline

The Old Testament has been transmitted accurately over thousands of years which is no small accomplishment.

What's wrong with that? Libertarians should love this - government slashed to bare minimum (or below) and everything in private hands. And as we know, *everything* is better when privately operated. Next step should be deregulating LEC market to enable true competition.

Like Martin Niemöller pointed out, nobody cares about things like this until they are being targeted themselves. I don't expect Libertarians to be any different.

You're missing some history.

Invasion of Poland, Fall 1939

In September 1938, after signing away the Czech border regions, known as the Sudetenland, to Germany at the Munich conference, British and French leaders pressured France's ally, Czechoslovakia, to yield to Germany's demand for the incorporation of those regions. Despite Anglo-French guarantees of the integrity of rump Czechoslovakia, the Germans dismembered the Czechoslovak state in March 1939 in violation of the Munich agreement. Britain and France responded by guaranteeing the integrity of the Polish state.

German forces moving into Poland was an act of war to France and Britain so France had to be neutralized before German forces moved into Russia.

The Crimea is the new Sudetenland, and it is Russia that is accumulating territory.

Theres a big difference between the Nazis arguments on the Jews and the OWS argument on the 1%.

The OWS believe the ultra rich are ultra rich because they are ultra rich

The nazis thought the jews where ultra rich because the nazis where racist fanatics.

Kind of a difference.

OWS thinks that the rich get that way by cheating or stealing from ordinary people.

The Nazis believed that the Jews got rich by cheating or stealing from ordinary people (Germans in that case).

The Nazis drew inspiration from Marx. OWS draws inspiration from Marx.

"The classes and the races, too weak to master the new conditions of life, must give way.” - Karl Marx

Genocide doesn't mean race. That's just one thing it could mean.

Well, fair enough; per the US Holocaust Memorial Museum:

It is a very specific term, referring to violent crimes committed against groups with the intent to destroy the existence of the group.

Although, in fairness, geno comes from the Greek for "race" or "tribe."

You want to go back to sterilizing sociopaths and add to that forcing abortions?

Uh, how does pointing out the difference between genocide and eugenics equate to support of either philosophy? To normally-brained people, anyway.

before mass prosecution of certain ( ethnic ) groups broke out, the government also told its citizens: "Ordinary German citizens in good standing have nothing to fear from GeStaPo or SD, which services are there to protect them".

Well, that is the problem isn't it? The National Socialist German Workers' Party didn't consider Jews to be ordinary German citizens.

Mein Kampf - 1925/1926

Germans, Buy only from the Jew! - by Joseph Goebbels - 10 December 1928
Goebbels satirically suggests that Germans should only buy from the Jews.
The title is a takeoff on a common Nazi slogan: “Germans: Don’t buy from the Jew!”

Set out the Christmas tree. Daughters of Zion, rejoice! The good Germans are forging their own chains from their hard-earned coins. The Jewish financier will use them to impose eternal slavery on Germans. Who would not want to help advance world Jewry’s great benevolent work? Why do we have a neck, if not to bear a yoke? Germany has been for sale for ten years. Who does not want to help? Does anyone ask if the toy under the Christmas tree came from the Jew Tietz or the German Müller? The Jew will grow fat from the coins you give him, the German will starve. So what? Let the light shine on the Jews, let the Germans dwell in darkness. That is what the Lord of the Jews wants, as does his lackey Finance Minister Hilferding. Property is theft, as long as it does not belong to the Jew. Not a penny for the nobility, everything for the bank and stock exchange and department store swindlers!

Christmas is the festival of love. Why should we not love the poor Jews, even make them fat? Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you! When was the Jew not our enemy? When did he not hate and persecute and slander and spit on us? Who would be inhuman enough to demand that we should treat him according to the law he applies to us: An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth?

The child whose birthday we will soon celebrate came into the world to bring love. But Christ the man learned that one cannot always get by with love. When he saw the Jewish moneychangers in the temple, he took a whip and drove them out of the temple.

Germans, buy only from Jews! Let your fellow citizens starve, and go to the Jewish department stores, especially at Christmas. The greater the injustice you do to your own people, the sooner the day will come when a man comes to take up the whip and drive the moneychangers from the temple of our fatherland

Deutsche denkt daran!

Anti-Jewish parade float - "Grumblers and Trouble-Makers go under the Roller"

I assure you there is more if you go looking.

How did fascism take over Germany? One perfectly justifiable step after another.

No, not so much.

...a "public safety exception" voiding the constitutional right to have a lawyer.

The purpose here is intelligence to ensure there isn't another attack or more attackers. See the excellent post and link by Wrath0fb0b in reply to the same post.

Would you consider it a triumph of the criminal justice system if these two were only the known part of a larger cell of terrorists that attacked and killed a couple of thousand people at a stadium next week and it wasn't discovered beforehand because he wasn't interrogated?

And the Jews could have moved out of Germany before they where all rounded up.

No they couldn't; their movements were restricted by Germany. They tried, and actually Germany tried forced emigration out of the country before death camps, you know... before Germany's attempts to take over the world.

Some jews successfully fled, and got into safer countries. The vast majority of jews attempting to flee were in fact rejected when they attempted to enter the other countries.

Almost all the jewish refugees attempting to flee Europe were rejected due to anti-jewish sentiment in other countries, and the result was a huge PR boost for Hitler.

See Voyage of the St. Louis

Exceptions to the rule. To quote: "According to Nazi ideology, Slavs were useless subhumans. As such, their leaders, the Soviet elite, were to be killed and the remainder of the population enslaved or expelled further eastward."

Ok... you opened the door: chips and barcodes weren't invented yet, so eventually in Auschwitz "the SS authorities introduced the practice of tattooing in order to identify the bodies of registered prisoners who had died." (source).

Using the chips as an IFF? Yeah right. That'll make it easy for the combat droids. Soldier will of course have their chips removed and issued 'special' ones.

As well, Familias Regnant universe:

The council is made up of members of the Ruling Families. These families have many business interests throughout known space, and political decisions are closely linked to business needs. Non-members of the Ruling Families have little to no control over the choice of leaders and the everyday running of their government.

It is likely that the Ruling Families were initially a business arrangement which became a form of government as business relationships grew and merged. Their government is run according to a set of bylaws and there is no constitution or other set framework in place.

I haven't read any of Elizabeth Moon's works (yet), but is this meant as a warning where things may lead, or is this supposed to be her idealized version of government? Who knows?

I'm sure that if he were still alive, the sculptor who crafted the Statue of Liberty would be aghast at the racist GOP's stance towards immigrant latinos today, and Emma Lazarus would be likewise horrified at the racist anti-immigrant sentiment stirred up by people who regularly plaster the face of the Statue of Liberty on their campaign posters while ignoring the meaning of the poem sitting at her feet.

So what? Why should naked propaganda only be used for its original purpose? If someone comes up with a way to misuse old Nazi propaganda, should we care that Joseph Goebbels might be horrified?

The US's current stance on immigration may not be particularly sound, but it was arrived at democratically and there are good reasons for that choice not having to do with "racism".

I see, so first they came for the Jihadis, and you did not speak out, because you were not a Jihadi.

I wonder how many more will be exterminated with your implicit approval before they come for you?

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392

You know its people like afidel, a play on words Mr. Castro or should I say Mr. Hitler, who disgust me with there "facts" but don't actually do any research to understand what there stating. We lost ~4,000 people and a trillion dollars worth of wars is fact, in theory but I didn't confirm it, what I did confirm however is this.

WW II cost us 1,027,000 estimated, yes thats over 1MILLION american citizen's over the course of the war. That is 6.67% of the population at the time at a cost of, in today's monies, 1.5 Trillion dollars.

While no one wants a war or the lose of life that comes with it I think I would prefer not having to live in a nazi training camp, or even not being born since I'm "not part of the perfect race".

United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. “The Holocaust.” Holocaust Encyclopedia. Accessed on {insert today's date}.

We're starting with different axioms here. "Freedom of the individual" does not take precedence over the community.

I've heard that somewhere before. Hmmmm. Let's see if I can find it. Ah yes! Here it is:

Key to Nazi ideology and propaganda was the creation of a "national community" (Volksgemeinschaft), a racial union of "Aryan" Germans transcending class, religion, and region. The political and social strife of the Weimar period had no place in this community. Instead of the protection of personal rights enshrined in the Weimar constitution, Nazi propagandists emphasized the welfare of the national community. "Racially pure" Germans ("national comrades") were to sacrifice for the commonweal. Nazi propaganda was crucial in selling the myth of the national community to Germans longing for unity, national pride and greatness, and a break with the social stratification of the past. Propaganda helped prepare the public for a future defined by Nazi ideology.

How did that work out for them?

Maybe you and she should both look at the web page for the Holocaust Memorial Museum then. A large section of the site has information about the current situation in Africa, including Rwandan genocide, and things happening in the Congo and Sudan. Go be informed, instead of making uninformed sweeping generalizations.

Maybe you and she should both look at the web page for the Holocaust Memorial Museum then. A large section of the site has information about the current situation in Africa, including Rwandan genocide, and things happening in the Congo and Sudan. Go be informed, instead of making uninformed sweeping generalizations.

As a German I know that money can never compensate for what my nation did to its Jewish citizens and other unwanted ethnic groups (such as Sinti and Roma). Nevertheless I take a small measure of satisfaction in the fact that compensations payments have been made and my nation actively tries to live up to this terrible responsibility.

While the level of genocide committed by my nation is unprecedented I think it is probably fair to say that the worst outrage and crime against humanity before WW2 was the organized slavery that the Anglo-Saxon world engaged in . Especially since it went on for centuries.

With regards to the United States it totally flummoxed me when I learned that no reparation payments have ever been made nor did Congress ever see fit to issue an apology on behalf of the American people.

This is not ancient history. After all Martin Luther King was shot over the struggle to gain full equality. If you can not see a direct line from slavery to the civil rights movement than I think you must be in deep denial.

Even if I'm not as smart as most folks, I'd be a bit leery if such events had been aimed at me - since before my birth.

And my, isn't nano-science and remote sensing so advanced, lately.

My, my. Indeed.
And I'm holdin on to my 2c, thanks.

Yes, because there is state sanctioned violence against Jews going on in the British Isles right now. There's also state sanctioned violence against the political opposition too. And let's not forget the Enabling Act that Gordon Brown is trying to push through Parliament at this very moment.

Godwin's law doesn't exist because of stories about WW2. Godwin's law exists because of idiots like you that make stupid bombastic comparisons to Nazi Germany that are completely divorced from any sense of reality or perspective and serve only to incite passions and flamewars.

Gee I thought the idea was to moderate the post not the author of the post.

Gee I thought the idea was to moderate the post not the author of the post.

Yes it's in dispute because IBM doesn't like their history. Here's a photo of your "disputed text" in the holocaust museum:

http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/9048-1.htm

You're a cocksucker, but there's a cure. Handguns are cheap and plentiful. Buy one and drill a hole in your head asshole puppyfucker.

The number of icons/landmarks really puts into perspective how serious the situation has been and currently is. It's been nice that they've added pictures that put a face to this conflict. In some of the areas where villages have been attacked, it's difficult to zoom in and really see the devastation(a great deal of Sudan appears to be old satellite photos). Hopefully Google/USHMM can add more to each site so that it's more clear what's happened, to whom and the full extent of the conflict. Prior to this most of what I knew was from a few friends from Africa and protests covered on the news....

One night at a conference, though, up in the hotel room after a good deal of beer, one of them apologized to my jewish collegue for the holocaust. (To which my friend replied, in typical fashion, "Hey, no problem."). This guy clearly felt very bad about it, although not from anything anyone actually said or did.

The thing about the holocaust, however, was the way it sucked in the entire german culture. It wasn't that there were a few mass murderers; rather, the whole society became geared towards the genocide of "outsiders" within it. Yes, there were heroes among the people of germany, but something terrible happened within the society as a whole. The feelings of guilt are collective because the society as a whole acted. And the culture doesn't disappear, it's transmitted through the generations. It wasn't the case of a small group of individuals.

From my rather distant vantage point, and from meeting these two post docs, it's clear that as individuals and as a society, a great deal of soul searching has been done in germany. (Again, I'm sure there are plenty of individuals there who would be Nazis if the whole thing started up today.) It seems to be important for german society. And it seems to be coming from within german society - I don't see it much being imposed from without. There are plenty of German tourists in Israel- I even stayed in a German run kibbutz when I was there several years ago. Whatever Germans are doing, they are doing for their own reasons.

And the Holocaust is not yet completely in the past. There are still Nazis being hunted down today. There are still problems with people recovering art, money, and bank accounts that were seized by the Nazis. Claims are still being fought over to this day.

If you want to see societies which have NOT acknowledged their complicity, just look at Austria and the extreme right wing politics on the rise over there. The Germans seem determined not to do it again. Given the opportunity, Austria might. Look at Hungary, which was only occupied at the tail end of the war - but thanks to help from the local population, over two thirds of the Jews there were killed. Millions died in Poland. There has been no widespread acknowledgment of complicity, and there's plenty of antisemitism in both of these countries.

I have met plenty of Germans, and had no problems with any of them. But I am pleased to see Germany still grappling with their past, of their own accord. Perhaps we could learn something.

The cost of the Iraq war is a pimple on the behind of either the American economy, or the US Government budget. The annual costs of the Iraq war are on the order of $100-150 billion. The US Government budget is $2 trillion. The US economy is on the order of $12 trillion. From an economic perspective, the cost of Iraq is an annoyance, nothing more. The US Army during the Vietnam war was 3x its current size. During WW2, it was 16x larger while the country was half its current size. Militarily the Iraq war is uncomfortable for the current size of the Army and the policies they want to keep, but that is about all.

Iran isn't simply provoking Israel, its President is making statements suggesting a threat of genocide that even various Arab governments condemn. Maybe you can understand why the Jewish state might be sensitive to that? Or, maybe not. I can't imagine you advocate them accepting annihilation just to keep the peace.

Europe has been taking the lead on the Iran problem*, and is failing. Is that because Europeans want oil priced in Euros, a nuclear armed Iran (soon) with missiles capable of reaching Europe (now), they are simply feckless, or maybe the Iranian government is run by fanatics who have an agenda of their own that they value above Europe's carrots & sticks?

Wars tend to start when one country attacks another. Iran has been sponsoring terrorism across the region, providing arms to Iraqi insurgents, and is making threats against other countries. That isn't a recipe for peace.

By the way, how does suicide bombing work into this? Since we "know" that religion isn't involved, but oil is, how do they convince suicide bombers to do it? Do they offer to bury the bomber's remains in pure kerosene or something?

* Yet more evidence of US unilateralism.

In 1924, a teenager in Charlottesville, Virginia, Carrie Buck, was chosen as the first person to be sterilized under the state's newly adopted eugenics law. Ms. Buck, whose mother resided in an asylum for the epileptic and feebleminded, was accused of having a child out of wedlock. She was diagnosed as promiscuous and the probable parent of "socially inadequate offspring."

A lawsuit challenging the sterilisation was filed on Ms. Buck's behalf. Harry Laughlin, having never met Ms. Buck, wrote a deposition condemning her and her 7-month old child, Vivian. Scientists from the ERO attended the trial to testify to Vivian's "backwardness." In the end, the judge ruled in the state's favor.

On appeal, the U.S. Supreme Court in the landmark case Buck v. Bell (1927), ruled 8-1 to uphold the sterilisation of Ms. Buck on the grounds she was a "deficient" mother. Chief Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr., an adherent of eugenics, declared "Three generations of imbeciles are enough."

According to University of Virginia historian Paul Lombardo, evidence was later revealed that supports the claim that Carrie Buck's child was not the result of promiscuity; Ms. Buck had been raped by the nephew of her foster parents. School records also indicate her daughter Vivian was a solid student and had made the honor roll at age 7. A year later, Vivian died of an intestinal illness.

Then, the zealots' hobbyhorse was eugenics. Today the politicians keep the people worked up by riding the hobbyhorses of "the war against terrorists" and "homosexual marriage". But Big Government has demonstrated time and time again that there are things with which it cannot be trusted. Our genetic codes are clearly one of those things that Government will eventually misuse. Our only defense is to prevent Government from getting it

I think this issue is too big to slip between /. posts. So I created a http://digitalcrimesagainsthumanity.blogspot.com/" blog for it, with this post only.. I really want these names to stay on the Web together: crimes, humanity, holocaust, RIAA, Nazi, SONY. DIGITAL CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY This post is a science fiction. There's no such a thing as a crime against digital human rights. But perhaps, there ought to be. As our digital culture evolves, corporate censorship, digital genocide, arrests and police actions against some very specific digital groups begins to appear. One of these groups is P2P: peer-to-peer networks, raided often by governments in response to lobby by corporations: SONY and others. According to some definitions: Genocide is a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of *** groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves. In the 1945 world, the *** in the term of genocide meant "national". But in today's world, corporations and governments take an aim at the digital life of individuals. I wrote this post when RIAA (SONY and others) raided Razorback2 servers in Switzerland (Razorback is a server helping eMule community locate each other's files on the Internet). Does it mean at some point these raids will cross into something threatening our digital lives, our freedoms? Do we feel helpless, when legitimate files, otherwise inaccessible via other means are targeted by these organizations? Clearly, RIAA (SONY and others) does an indiscriminatory digital genocide against entire networks, groups of peaceful people with the aim of annihiliating groups themselves. This is a definition of the digital genocide. Now, to the Holocaust. According to the holocaust encyclopedia (http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/) the holocaust was systematic, bureaucratic, state sponsored persecution and murder of millions of people. Well, in today's world, the Digital Holocaust committed by RIAA IS a SYSTEMATIC, BUREAUCRATIC, STATE SPONSORED PERSECUTION of millions of P2P network users. Think about it.

I guess the majority spoke loud and clear huh..
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&Modul eId=10005139

Lets face it, during the '30s, being jewish meant being lesser beings. Maybe we've changed since then, and maybe it's only window dressing.

The only way we'll know for sure is when it happens again... Oh wait... It has....

Rwanda ( http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/rwanda/ )

Sudan ( http://www.lnsart.com/Sudan%20Slave%20Story.htm )

Democratic Republic of Congo ( http://www.pambazuka.org/index.php?id=29835 )

Zimbabwe ( http://www.zimbabwedemocracytrust.org/outcomes/det ails?contentId=1948 )

(lame links, but I'm in a hurry)

But I guess they're just africans...

Maybe someone should start looking in the mirror. (And no I'm not soley referring to the parent/gp/ggp )

If anybody wants real information about how many Jews were killed in the holocaust, they can get more information at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum

Also, here is a project for collecting all the names of holocaust victims

That's just great.

Waiting for it? It already happened, dipshit.

Here's a summary, and here's the Wikipedia link (grep 'Morocco'). This is much more authoritative though, but longer.

The argument is not preposterous. I may not have the terminology perfectly accurate, but the point I am making is none the less true. A 223 to the hip is more damaging that a 22 to the hip. Expanding rounds are a side-track. You seem bent on saying that all weapons are equal. The are not equal.

1. Excuse me? I've studied the rise of Hitler. I love history, particularly 20th century history, That is an area of history I know pretty well, in fact I would say I know that period of history better than probably any other. Let me tell you that some of the history parallels pretty closely with recent US history. If you were serious about what you say you'd be marching on Washington right now, AR15 on your shoulder and 45 on your hip. Just remember that this time they aren't after the Jews and Communists first. Remember the quote from Niemoller. The've already started: Guantanamo bay. You may not be aware that Dachau (which is where the Holocaust survivor was incarcerated) was the first Nazi concentration camp opened. It was the prototype of others to come. I might suggest you read the interview you linked and keep in mind Guantanamo bay. Get your gun and get marching.

You might note that in the interview he mentions that some concentration camp survivors don't agree with the arming of American citizens. I disagree with some of his conclusions on how best to prevent the same thing happening again. Once again I re-iterate, gun ownership isn't much good against trained, well armed soldiers. Even his argument about the Warsaw ghetto doesn't hold much water, they held out for a month before being overwealmed. A more herioc fight is hard to imagine, but it did not keep the 56,000 Jews who remained alive after the fighting from being executed or sent to concentration camps. According to an article found using google the number of German soldiers in the action was under 10,000.

2. You haven't answered the question. Whether you cannot buy an M16 at a corner store is irrelevant. One of the major arguments I hear in favour of owning guns is to overthrow the government. I just don't see that as practical.

3. My apologies, thanks for the clarification. I certainly agree that the government is there to serve the populace. Service is at the heart of Christian leadership.

4. I think I may have defined it earlier, but here goes: semi-automatic or automatic, large magazine, long range. In the previous list pick any 2. I'd put machine pistols/submachine guns in another category. But I'd exclude them on the same grounds that I would exclude assualt weapons.

Regardless of that, though - why does need have anything to do with a freedom? Why do you need to post on Slashdot? Why do you need to read news about foreign countries? Need has nothing to do with it - and that is a fundamental difference between your philosophy and mine.

Well put. I haven't articulated my thinking on that point very well. Let me put it another way, is the exercise of that freedom to the general benefit of society? I also have not problem with a freedom being exercised if it is neutral. I just cannot see that being the case with assault weapons/machine pistols.

That does not mean there is no evil. It merely means that evil has its practitioners -- Hitler, bin Laden and colleagues, Hussein, Pol Pot among them -- and its apologists, this AC among them, who support evil by devoting their efforts to undermining its opposition.

The facts are: US law does not universally apply, and Copyright is not some sort of divine right. If you will look around a bit you will see some of the countries with the least restrictive copyright laws have very outstanding artistic histories.

Once again you lot confuse commerce with art. Artists have traditionally sought benefactors and relied on individual sales and performance contracts to generate income. The people who benefit from US copyright law.. blah blah blah blah... we've heard it before

So I'll say it again: look around. Russia has a very loose copyright system and yet they are far from being devoid of artists - nor of plastic pop has-beens. And, in fact, some of the brightest artistic moments from that part of the world came when artists were most persecuted - nor have their very liberal policies cost them their share of post-modern innovation.

I'm not saying we should abuse artists (well, except mimes) but the simple fact is these russian (and Ukrainian - another FSU state that is slated to join the EU) websites are simply exploiting the weakness of the oppression existent in our own economy - no different than when we exploit the labors of those kids who work for a buck a day rolling beedies, assembling hundred dollar sneakers, or putting overpriced plastic dolls in boxes.

So... how does it feel to be exploited by the foibles of your own beliefs?