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Adding a Windows license would kick that price up considerably.

To be exact, adding a Windows license adds $50 to the price.

'Tis a shame then that WalMart DOES carry HDTVs and even plasma TVs.

A Tatung 50 inch plasma display might be gigantic enough for ya? ;)

Perhaps so. I bet there'll also be a surprisingly large number of people who, despite all of Wal*Mart's warnings to the contrary, still buy the PC and take it home thinking it's going to run .

Once they figure that out, they'll march back into Wal*Mart for a refund. (Note to self: check Wal*Mart for price-reduced "open-box" PCs in a few months--these buggers might just be going for less than a Snickers bar by then.)

BTW, here's the link to the Wal*Mart Microtel PC in question for the curious among us:
Microtel Wal*Mart PC

Actually it looks like the cost of a floppy drive is the same as the Sun Java Desktop software.

Because over here is basically the same machine with No OS and a Floppy Drive.

--
You may be a dreamer, but I'm The Dreamer, the definite article you might say!

What is that circular thing on the front of the case? It looks like the data port on the Death Star where R2D2 plugged in and snarfed the plans to the space station.

Those systems seem to be Lindows based. Here's a link to the Sun Java Desktop based systems. Seems the lowest price is $298.

"Sun has delivered the first viable Microsoft Windows alternative. The Java desktop system is a more affordable, secure desktop, designed to thrive in a Windows-centric world and run thousands of Java technology-based applications."

It goes on and on, including mentioning that it comes with StarOffice, it can exchange files with MS Office, it isn't prone to viruses, etc. They really are doing a good job at selling this to the average person and letting them know that there is a pretty viable option to Windows (other than mac of course)

What's the point when for $200 the "poor" could by a Linux pc from Wal-Mart.

Let's not discount the fact that the per capita GDP in India is $2,540, which would make a $200 PC in India worth $2960.63 in US dollars (US per capita GDP = $37,600).

Some help that is...

here you go

as low as $288

Sun has delivered the first viable Microsoft Windows alternative. The Java desktop system is a more affordable, secure desktop, designed to thrive in a Windows-centric world and run thousands of Java technology-based applications.

Sun has delivered the first viable Microsoft Windows alternative. The Java desktop system is a more affordable, secure desktop, designed to thrive in a Windows-centric world and run thousands of Java technology-based applications.

Microsoft Trackball Optical

HAHAHAHAHAH

I can go to Walmart and buy a game cube for $99 already. WHat are you babbling about.

$99 gamecube

So, in closing. Downloading software is illegal. Fucking consumers is immoral.


Correction: Downloading illegally available software is illegal.

Case in point: I have a free, free-to-download test program available at my site (see sig) that checks if the PC you run it on is capable of running my retail program that is available for purchase there.

zerocool complains about high-priced (overpriced) software as is his/her right in the USA under the First Amendment to the Constitution Of America.

The reality: Software development costs MONEY and should be compensated for if desired by the creators of said software.

The facts....

The computer(s) the software is developed on costs money (unless said computer(s) were donated for free).

The electricity powering the computer costs money (unless it is being generated from a free and/or donated source).

The programmer(s) who programmed the software cost money (unless they are donating their time and skills for free).

The advertising for the software costs money (unless it is being done for free somehow).

The distribution expenses to distribute the software to the recipients cost money (unless it is being done for free somehow).

Companies and individuals have invested lots of time and money in the software they create and sell. They found needs/markets for certain kinds of software and wrote the software to fill those needs/markets. Big companies have to sell software for big bucks to recoup the expenses in creating, maintaining, and distributing said software. They also are entitled to profit from their software which should be reinvested back into the company--not wasted.

For example, look at the 'gross profit margin' on a retail CD copy of Windows: $179.00 or so for a round thin sandwich of plastics and metal that has an intrinsic value of maybe $1.00. That $179.00 Windows CD allowed everybody, from the end user/customer up to Microsoft itself, to profit and benefit from the manpower and technology invested in it to create it and to benefit from its power as a computer operating system.

Ok, let's cut to the chase....

Windows is a kludge, based on code dating back to the dawn of the PC era.

Microsoft is a monopoly.

Even in this environment, the customer STILL has alternatives such as Apple and Linux -- SCO problems with commercial Linux use aside (which can be resolved.

If you want to avoid paying for high-priced software, use cheaper/free software or buy/legally get for free the necessary software tools to write your own custom programmed software solutions.

To address the second part of zerocool's comment, I offer the the following as some of the societal results of 'people as consumers -- not customers'. This has created a desparate, adversarial environment in which commerce and 'consumers' meet in an inevitable clusterfsck....

Wal-Mart, their business practices and its consequenses.

Ad creep. Even on the Internet. a technique coined and first implemented in 1996.

Email spam.

Compare the price of MS Office with a Java desktop machine at Walmart.

Walmart already sells them. $30 and only a few inches larger.

Wonder if the Israeli military shops at Walmart?

Because Dell's effort was completely half-assed, at best. Dell made as much effort to sale Linux as you wanna kiss your friend's date's ugly girlfriend. Simple fact is, if someone actually makes an attempt, they make actually be able to do something with it.

$300 for a "complete" 1.6Ghz Duron system isn't too bad...

12. Enforcement of These Terms of Service.
[...] You agree that WALMART.COM has the right, without liability to you, to disclose any Registration Data and/or Account information to law enforcement authorities, government officials, and/or a third party , as WALMART.COM believes is reasonably necessary or appropriate to enforce and/or verify compliance with any part of this Agreement (including but not limited to WALMART.COM's right to cooperate with any legal process relating to your use of the Service and/or Products, and/or a third party claim that your use of the Service and/or Products is unlawful and/or infringes such third party's rights).
(emphasis added)

Interesting (in essence, that's "we can pretty much do whatever we damn well please with the data we connect about you and you can't do a thing about it")...

b) i get to use some handcuff microsoft monoply DRM schema instead of the aptly named "Fairplay" DRM from itunes.

[from Walmart]
What are the restrictions on how I can use the music I download?
By purchasing a music download, you are entitled to:
Download the music to 1 computer and back up music to 2 additional computers (see instructions below)
Make 10 burns to a CD
Make unlimited transfers to a portable device

[from iTunes]
In a nutshell, your FairPlay agreement entitles you to:
play your music on up to three computers (and enjoy unlimited synching with iPods),
allows unlimited burning for individual songs and
lets you burn unchanged playlists up to 10 times each.

Except for AAC v WMA, iTunes v browser, Apple v Microsoft/Walmart, they sound quite similar.

But we'd never let facts get in the way of a good opportunity to get modded up by slamming MS, would we?

Usage and License Rules

Terms of Service

God, why would I want to sign up for this, when there are so many other, easier, and less draconian options.

Usage and License Rules

Terms of Service

God, why would I want to sign up for this, when there are so many other, easier, and less draconian options.

Here is what Wal-Mart calls exclusive artists and tracks.

Barf.

From their download site:

What does a song marked "(Edited)" mean?
An "edited" song is an alternate version of a song that has been recorded without explicit lyrics.

I thought this was to compete with Nintendo's Gamecube, which as been at $150 for a while now

Low end PC users are very forgiving of Wintel nightmares when it comes to price. He can pay off the Compaq quicker, it will come with WinXP which "will clear up most of the bugs [he's] running into" (his quote - not mine), and he doesn't have to relearn how to use his computer. The fact that I could argue he's wrong on all points except one is the crux of the matter. It IS cheaper.

I don't know the details of comparison between the two models you referred to above, but for me, you can't put a price on ease of use. I owned PCs from 1994-2000. Then, after reinstalling Win98 for the eigth time that year to clear up a corrupted registry, I bought a Grape iMac DV. It was a night and day experience. That's not to say OS9 didn't have it's issues, but I never had to reinstall the OS just to get a performance increase. Everything worked. I just plugged it in. Any expansions I needed I plugged into my USB ports. I purchased new versions of my favorite web and graphics software (Another aspect that daunts switchers, except that many of the PC users I know don't actually buy their software. They get it for free with the PC or Kazaa - like the guy above). I ran Virtual PC for any stragglers that I couldn't find on the Mac, and I never looked back. I use my computer. I don't worry about viruses. I don't waste hours trouble shooting my iMac. Unlike my experience on a PC.

Apple needs to have a low priced iMac. Period. And the lowend line is due for a refresh, that's true. But the question is, can Apple provide the same quality at a $500 price? Would they? Shouldn't they? I believe they should. They are losing the lowend war. The warehouse store or Wal*Mart mentality doesn't care about class, style, elegance, etc. They care about good enough for a great price. But then, Apple has never targeted Macs at these consumers so they might not see this as a loss...

And how about standing up to the $300 Wal-mart linux boxes? 8^)
(the $200 one is out of stock)

Make that a DX4530

Say, what is on display at WalMart?

Oh yeah, these.

If you need to buy a pre-built PC, here's a good one at Wal-Mart . I hope that link works, its kind of long.

Anyway, I just got one for work, I work for a small company and it is happily running FreeBSD. I haven't really had any problems with it.

As for choice. Go to Dell (or most other PC suppliers) and try and get a home pc with Linux pre-installed.

It took me about 30 seconds to find this link.

With Wal-Mart hocking $200 PCs with Lindows Pre-installed you have to wonder if it might actually be the fastest growing...

With Wal-Mart hocking $200 PCs with Lindows Pre-installed you have to wonder if it might actually be the fastest growing...

Yes they coexist, along with SUSE and Linare. See for yourself. Check the left side column for SUSE and Linare.
Regards,
Steve

$199 microtel (plus $100 monitor)

'There are PDa's with 800mhz chips full screen kick ass out there"
For less than $200? Walmart?

"...in the long term they will be failing." Long term here being what, 5 years? How many portable audio players, CD, Tape, MP3, etc, have a product life cycle of 5 years? Zero. Sure, the Walkman has been around forever but it certainly hasn't remaind the same product for the past 25 years, or even the last 5 years. Portable CD players 5 years ago didn't know what MP3's were. Now, even the inexpensive ones play MP3 encoded discs.

USD30 mp3 players? Maybe eventually and at that point, Apple and all the other device manufacturers will have a new product with new features that people will gladly pay a premium price for. 10 cent downloads? Riiiight, that will happen....maybe with indie music, but never with mainstream, RIAA endorsed/encoded, DRM'd music. If you've ever read any type of financial article about iTMS, you'd know that it is a loss leader to sell iPods, cited here. Those songs will not be less than $0.99 for a long time, maybe $0.69 on sale, or something to that effect. Yeah, yeah, $0.79 at some of the other sites, that's got them where in market share and profitability? $0.10/song gets you what? In legal trouble with the music industry, and a real quick sucking sound of your VC funds because for ever song you sell, you lose $1.00 or so.

Apparently Mercedes-Benz, Giorgio Armani, and Rolex have never learned your lesson about "Nobody cares about quality." I know I do, which is why I bought an Apple Powerbook G4 instead of some POS HP/Compaq. Does this make me biased toward Apple? No. I bought the better product for my needs and the comparable Dells, which I do not believe have better quality or service, were several hundred dollars more and did less than my PB. I also don't shop at Walmart because of the low quality of much of the items they stock. Obviously, Walmart is doing something right to become the number one retailer in the world, but I still refuse to shop there and a completely separate discussion. I don't buy Kia's because I believe that they are lousy automobiles. My point here is that many people, including myself, care about quality.

I'm not quite sure what universal law of economics you are talking about, unless you have some odd perception of the supply and demand curves. If there was an economic law that stated that the cheapest product wins the most market share, we'd all be driving Kia's (or taking public transportation), doing all of our shopping at the dollar stores, buying clothes at the salvation army, and buying old computers off eBay as "upgrades."

Well, the URL is incredibly convoluted, but it doesn't appear to be session specific or anything, so here you go :)

(I searched at walmart.com on "Lindows" and then "all results in Electronics.")

It's not the latest or greatest, but it's got a faster processor than any machine I own, a hard drive we (I) would have (figuratively speaking) killed for a few years ago, enough RAM to run a nice GUI, etc. And obviously, it runs Linux, if that matters to you, courtesy of Michael Robertson :)

timothy

I mean, what we are trying to run is ad-blocking software, so we are taking it upon ourselves to re-author copyrighted information ( i.e. a web page content ) on the fly.

So, to me, they have the same right to try to force me to see the ad as I have to try to not see it. The ultimate decision is : do I even look at that web page or not.

I think this whole condrundrum is just like the RIAA's condrundrum. Yeh, you can pull lawyers into the fray and spend lots of money, but I do not think that will alter much of anything in the outcome. People will do mostly what they want, technology permitting. There will always be the cat and mouse game.

I am noting some sites fighting back against pop-up blockers by making content as well as ads as a popup. And hosting the ad on their server in the same directories as the content so you can't rely on your cached list of ad-servers to cull it out for you. Frustrating, as you really can not really identify until you have personally inspected the content if you wanted it or not.

I normally run java off because of all the annoyances ( and crashes ) I get as webmasters find sneaky javascript tricks to slip onto their pages. Although these tricks may work for some browsers, they may have quite different results on others. Especially older ones such as mine. From reading this article mentioned, a lot of people are running some sort of blockers, so it behooves the commercial business webmasters to steer clear of things on their site that mimic or use extended techniques.

The most recent example I have is I was looking for some data on washing machines. I visited www.sears.com to see the latest in Kenmores. Hmmm. blank page. I wasn't in the mood for examining source code and fishing the addresses from it, so I just visited Google. I ended up with lots of alternate sources that worked. I note that a lot of large businesses use weird stuff on their pages which trips up my system. But not all. Wal-Mart so far has had very clean pages that don't send me funny stuff that trips me up. I flat do not know why commercial webmasters slip funny proprietary stuff in that trips up peoples stuff. Its kinda like having a parking lot full of dog shit.

And while I am on this, why do commercial sites use proprietary stuff like .ra audio files or .rm video, when just about everything out there happily plays .mp3 or .mpg formats?

How about the Microsoft Sidewinder joystick, full sized, with an interface for the phone? Takes portable gaming to a new level.

We have to take advantage of these great 3d graphics somehow.

Actually, Ward and Brownlee do make estimates as to how many solar systems there are in the known universe based on current projections of galaxies and known (discovered) solar systems. They do not look at particular planets and say that life does not exist on planet A, B, or C. Instead, they discuss all the conditions necessary for the Earth to sustain life and show that repeating Earth's environment (or even something close) is difficult. Earth's evolution for instance proceeded in the way that it did due to millions of factors (climate, planet changing events such as meteors, volcanoes,... etc.)

So, you are right... we cannot say for sure life does not exist on a particular planet without knowing that a planet exists. However, based and what we know about life-sustaining systems (such as Earth) and current percentage of know solar systems, we can estimate the number and probability that planets that meet the correct criteria for life can actually have life, intelligent life, and sustain it.

Anyway, check out my original link to Rare Earth book, pick a used copy somewhere (I believe Alldirect.com and Walmart have the best prices on the book new or used) and check out Ward and Brownlee's arguments for yourself. I am not doing the book any justice with my quick capsule review. Check it out for yourself if you are interested in E.T. arguments and speculation.

Firstly iTunes runs on Windows, however it only runs on the non-toy versions. (2k + XP). Yes I know it's designed for an iPod but you can burn to CD then re-rip them to a portable format.

Secondly Walmart now sell music downloads for 88c

That WalMart (Lycoris) PC here... $199 (online)

From one armchair analyst to another:

I've used my PS2 to play DVDs. It's akin to using my Dreamcast to surf the web; It just isn't worth the effort. Granted I don't have a PS2 DVD remote kit, but the navigation system is terrible out of the box. Better chalk up an extra $15 for the PS2 remote once you realize that it's practically needed.

You're right though. For sixty more than the price of a Gamecube, you can get a DVD player. Heck, you can even get one much cheaper than that if you want. Think about that, a $30 that comes with a remote! You'll pay that much for the Xbox remote alone.

The GC is capable of doing 480p for those HDTV owners. I'm also thinking that anyone who spends the big bucks on an HDTV set will get a decent DVD player instead of relying on their game console to do it for them.

I bought one Lindows and one Lycoris machine for my kids for christmas. Good deal at $199 each at Walmart.com. Both have used Knoppix, Mandrake Move, and Fedora with on thier older machines with good results. I've had the new ones running periodically to configure everything for the local network and creating shortcuts to various places on the home file server and both have been good so far. The Lycoris "looks and feels" nicer but I could not get any video when I played movies with various codecs. I only have two complaints so far with Lindows. Every sub menu has a link to the click and run software library. A bit overboard I think. The other is the always run as root thing. Does not seem like such a good idea. I may look into changing that or wait until they trash it and try something else. I added an extra 256MB in each. The specs and hardware for the computers are identical. I forget the MB type but the CD is an LG and the hardrive is a Maxtor.

I bought one Lindows and one Lycoris machine for my kids for christmas. Good deal at $199 each at Walmart.com. Both have used Knoppix, Mandrake Move, and Fedora with on thier older machines with good results. I've had the new ones running periodically to configure everything for the local network and creating shortcuts to various places on the home file server and both have been good so far. The Lycoris "looks and feels" nicer but I could not get any video when I played movies with various codecs. I only have two complaints so far with Lindows. Every sub menu has a link to the click and run software library. A bit overboard I think. The other is the always run as root thing. Does not seem like such a good idea. I may look into changing that or wait until they trash it and try something else. I added an extra 256MB in each. The specs and hardware for the computers are identical. I forget the MB type but the CD is an LG and the hardrive is a Maxtor.

Ok a little more clarification. Apparently when they say "back up to two additional computers" they mean you can back up your license files on the first computer, then restore those license files to two other computers, allowing the music files to play there.

At least that seems to be the case. I gave that a try, and it appears to work. Although to your casual computer user, this is probably a non-trivial and confusing task (heck, I didn't even get it right away).

Thanks to Brian Briggs, the articles' author, for pointing me towards the Walmart music downloads EULA which does say that you can play the music on more than one computer. The sentence "You may play music an unlimited number of times on up to three (3) personal computers" is a little vague, though (emphasis mine). Should probably read " the music files" or something. Of course I can play music on up to three computers -- I don't need an EULA to tell me that. :p

The Benefits of Music Downloads, according to Wal-Mart.

On this page, they tell you that "Download music to 1 computer and back up to up to two additional computers". I guess the "two additional computers" means you're allowed to copy the file to two more computers, besides the 1 you're allowed to play the file on. God forbid Wal-mart stops by your house and see's the file sitting on four computers! Not that it will play anywhere but the first computer...

Wal-Mart corporate really doesn't care about the .com very much. I've known people who interviewed there and the opinion they came away with from the experience was that the people working there didn't really know what they were doing. They've got a chunk of money from the mothership and they're basically playing with it, following the lead of whatever business seems to be the hot thing this week. First it was general e-commerce, then DVD rentals, now music sales.

If I were Apple, I'd hardly be worried about the iTMS.

So, does this mean that their music folders are going to be a complete mess like the aisles I wander down in Wal-Mart when I visit?

Yes. Infact, walmart is even ripping the 1 second tracks 7 and 97 on Nine Inch Nails' Broken and selling those for 88 cents. (Looks like they tried to rip 8 - 96 too but the are unavailble as they are 0 second tracks)