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God created Lucifer with free will, and Lucifer used that free will to choose to rebel against God and become Satan the Devil. God allows Satan to continue with his wickedness to prove a point, namely that Satan's style of rule is not what is best for humankind. This is what Jehovah's Witnesses actually believe.

Why would a "God" need to perform an experiment, when He already knows the outcome?

For the same reason a freshman chemistry lab instructor does. God knows that Satan is wrong, but Satan is being given a chance to have it his way so that people can ultimately realize just how wrong Satan is.

...and condemning anyone who dare believe what they see to an eternity of torture, right? Wow, God sure is a sadistic fuck.

A couple of problems here. First, you obviously don't believe in or understand the concept of free will. How much of a paradise would heaven be if you were forced there against your own will? Second, you seem to have a lack of understanding how "relationships" work. You cannot force someone to love you.

Also, what people in hell will be tortured with is a form or what they took pleasure in while on earth. Glutenous people for example, will be forced to eat themselves to death for all eternity. They are getting what they sought in life.

Selfish people in life did not give a damn about anyone but themselves in life or consider how their actions could affect others so they will be deprived of the love of others.

Seriously, are you expecting god to force people to love him after they die or something? The people who are saved did not "earn" salvation, all the did was accept the gift offered to them. What condemns them is pride which is what caused the downfall of the devil. If you think that you are the centre of the universe then you will be left without god's love.

Do you like unsolicited mail? Wouldn't you rather be given the option to receive a gift rather than having it forced into your hands?

Why would a "God" need to perform an experiment, when He already knows the outcome?

For the same reason a freshman chemistry lab instructor does. God knows that Satan is wrong, but Satan is being given a chance to have it his way so that people can ultimately realize just how wrong Satan is.

...and condemning anyone who dare believe what they see to an eternity of torture, right? Wow, God sure is a sadistic fuck.

Why would a "God" need to perform an experiment, when He already knows the outcome?

For the same reason a freshman chemistry lab instructor does. God knows that Satan is wrong, but Satan is being given a chance to have it his way so that people can ultimately realize just how wrong Satan is.

Actually, it was my understanding that the Hebrew word that is translated into English as "day" in Genesis 1 is

...the word yôm (Strong's H3117).

the same word that is used to refer to the period of time from sunset until the following sunset.

Among other meanings. It can also refer to an indefinite period, much as English day can. Compare English "one of these days", "back in the day", etc. It has similar metaphorical meaning in Hebrew, and what is described as happening on some creative "days" cannot happen in 24 hours. See also Genesis 2:4, where Moses refers to the six creative "days" as one "day", and 2 Peter 3:8, where Peter compares God's concept of a "day" to a millennium to indicate that God operates on a different timescale from humans.

I can't trust a bible that's under copyright protection.

Three works of authorship are subject to perpetual copyright-like rights in Great Britain and Northern Ireland. One of the three is the King James Version of the Bible.

No man should have a monopoly on God's word.

Which is why the Watch Tower Society puts its literal New World Translation online and distributes printed copies at no charge.

I'd rather talk to Jehovah's Witnesses than vegans.

Why thank you. If you're interested in the Bible and how you can apply God's principles to your life, you can always search the JW web site for pages that mention vegetables. You can start with a few verses from the Bible: it's OK to do so (Genesis 9:3), but make sure to drain the blood out first (9:4), and don't try forcing other people into eating what they don't want (Romans 14:2-3).

I'd rather talk to Jehovah's Witnesses than vegans.

Why thank you. If you're interested in the Bible and how you can apply God's principles to your life, you can always search the JW web site for pages that mention vegetables. You can start with a few verses from the Bible: it's OK to do so (Genesis 9:3), but make sure to drain the blood out first (9:4), and don't try forcing other people into eating what they don't want (Romans 14:2-3).

I think I'll go smoke a fag

But God hates fags. Exposing other people to smoke doesn't show the love for one's neighbor that Jesus was always talking about.

It's not just "red and white blood cells" it's also plasma and platelets.

Which is where I have found that my conscience differs from WTS doctrine. I did my own interpretation of "the life is in the blood", and I failed to see how platelets and plasma count as "the life".

We're not really sure if bacos count as bacon, so that's okay

By the same analogy, vegetarian pseudo-bacon products such as Betty Crocker's Bac-Os would correspond to blood expanders.

It actually begins "abstain from food sacrificed to idols." And is THAT an all-encompassing edict for all times? No. In 1 Corinthians 8, Paul states that an "idol is nothing in the world" and that eating food offered to idols is actually perfectly OKAY.

Wow. Just wow. My brother is a baptized JW, and I'll have to bring up that chapter to him. Thank you.

If you search to the ends of the Earth, I suspect you'll find someone who can elaborate on it.

It could be argued that the ends of the earth are merely the shore.

Until then, I suggest Job 26:7.

You make a good point about this. Some people reading along might not get the Job 26 reference. Verse 7 ("hanging the earth upon nothing") suggests that there isn't anything that "holds the earth up", as some cultures' myths about turtles all the way down suggest. Likewise, the shape of the curve between day and night is "a circle [...] where light ends in darkness" (26:10), which along with Isaiah 40:21-22 too shows biblical knowledge of the spherical earth.

I really do hope you burn in hell for linking to TV Tropes.

Hell isn't about eternal torment. Riches-worshipping Hollywood executives sent to the lake of fire will feel the pain of destruction followed by nothing.

For lovers of TV and movies that shit is more addictive than the bastard child of crack, heroin and tobacco.

When did I mention Cracked.com?

But seriously, any site with interesting articles linked to other interesting articles will provide the same effect at least temporarily. I'd bet Wikipedia did this to you at one time. Even more linear media, such as web comics or Not Always Right, have the "archive binge" effect. But this subsides after you've read enough of the "back issues" that you can just refer to the site occasionally.

Secondly, Adam and Eve didn't know good from evil before eating the fruit

But they knew their maker from a snake in the grass.

Christian theology associates the serpent with Satan, although there is nothing in the story itself to indicate this.

Explicit identification of the serpent with Satan is found later in the Bible. John of Patmos wrote in Revelation 12:9 of "the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth".

If Satan tempted man, it's because God allowed it.

God allows evil to exist to illustrate a point: that evil is a destructive force that man cannot contain alone.

given the premise that there is evil in the world: is God evil, is he not omniscient, is he impotent to stop it, or does he simply not exist?

Allowing evil != being evil. God hates evil more than people do, but it's there for a reason. For one thing, it helps people appreciate the coming paradise more because they know what they'll be leaving behind. See what Watch Tower has to say about why God continues to allow evil for the time being.

"And [the beast] puts under compulsion all persons, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or upon their forehead, and that nobody might be able to buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name." -- John of Patmos, Revelation 13:16-17

This "beast" is identified in verse 7 as a multinational organization with "authority [...] over every tribe and people and tongue and nation", such as the UN or the international financial infrastructure or the like.

It all hinges on the precise meaning of the word translated "kind" in Genesis 1:21-25 and 6:20. I guess a creationist would argue that a "kind" is very close to a modern taxonomic "family" but not exactly the same: humans aren't the same "kind" as orangutans, gorillas, and chimps, created during the fifth period, despite their modern classification into Hominidae. Humans were created during the sixth period of creation as God's attempt to see how many of his own qualities he could squeeze into free space in the chimp genome.

It all hinges on the precise meaning of the word translated "kind" in Genesis 1:21-25 and 6:20. I guess a creationist would argue that a "kind" is very close to a modern taxonomic "family" but not exactly the same: humans aren't the same "kind" as orangutans, gorillas, and chimps, created during the fifth period, despite their modern classification into Hominidae. Humans were created during the sixth period of creation as God's attempt to see how many of his own qualities he could squeeze into free space in the chimp genome.

If this time, we give more difficult tests to religionists than atheists

Then you'd have people of faith filing lawsuits on grounds that the state is interfering with their First Amendment right to freedom of religion.

How old is the Earth (1) 6000 years old (2) 6 billion years old. Anyone who answers (1) is a freaking moron and can't vote. What's wrong with that?

Anyone who answers (1) ignores that Biblical "days" are metaphorical, per 2 Peter 3:8.

If God doesn't mind, why should you?

Paul wrote in Romans 13 (NIV; NKJV; NWT) that people should "be subject to the governing authorities". This follows from Jesus's command to "pay Caesar what is Caesar's" (Matthew 22:21).

Since you mention Creationism, I want to also mention that Creationism is not the only viewpoint of those who believe in creation as described in the Bible. As a Jehovah's Witness, I feel fairly well educated about the matter*. One of the things that I have learned about the Bible, that I often hear being associated with Creationism, is that in Genesis 1, where the creative days are described, the "days" are not referring to "24-hour periods".

From Awake magazine, September 2006: "The fact is that the Hebrew word translated “day” can mean various lengths of time, not just a 24-hour period. For example, when summarizing God’s creative work, Moses refers to all six creative days as one day. (Genesis 2:4)

* No, I am not a biology professor. No I don't think that I know everything. Please do not presume so or criticize me for not knowing everything.

I see there is a lot of critical thinking going on here.

For discussion/perspective:
Proverbs 11:5 Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, And anyone loving violence His soul certainly hates.

Note an important difference between what I see many others argue and this: It's not just whether doing what Jehovah God desires is obviously beneficial or otherwise. Nor is it doing so out of duty. Rather, most important and easiest to do when you are 'of that persuasion', is doing so out of love for God and a desire to please him.

That's my perspective.

Okay, I'll take that offer. Thank you though for expressing your opinion politely, and for inviting a response.

In World War II, Jehovah's Witnesses refused to take up arms on any and all sides of the conflict. This is because Jehovah's Witnesses endeavor to do like the first century Christians; Jesus said that his followers were "no part of the world" and that "all those who take the sword will perish by the sword."(John 15:19; Matthew 26:52). During the second World War, this earned them persecution from many of the countries involved.

This though, is not to say that they are pacifists, because they recognize God's right to wage war. They do not participate in wars because they realize that only Jehovah has the solution for all of the problems on the Earth, as well as the Power to accomplish that. More to the point of this issue, I'd like to quote directly this scripture, which shows God's means for cleaning the Earth of wickedness:

Jeremiah 25:31-33 :
31 “‘A noise will certainly come clear to the farthest part of the earth, for there is a controversy that Jehovah has with the nations. He must personally put himself in judgment with all flesh. As regards the wicked ones, he must give them to the sword,’ is the utterance of Jehovah.

32 “This is what Jehovah of armies has said, ‘Look! A calamity is going forth from nation to nation, and a great tempest itself will be roused up from the remotest parts of the earth. 33 And those slain by Jehovah will certainly come to be in that day from one end of the earth clear to the other end of the earth. They will not be bewailed, neither will they be gathered up or be buried. As manure on the surface of the ground they will become.’

Note: As a resource for this comment, I used the May 8, 1997 Awake Magazine. Also, I'm willing to provide further notation/sources on request.

Okay, I'll take that offer. Thank you though for expressing your opinion politely, and for inviting a response.

In World War II, Jehovah's Witnesses refused to take up arms on any and all sides of the conflict. This is because Jehovah's Witnesses endeavor to do like the first century Christians; Jesus said that his followers were "no part of the world" and that "all those who take the sword will perish by the sword."(John 15:19; Matthew 26:52). During the second World War, this earned them persecution from many of the countries involved.

This though, is not to say that they are pacifists, because they recognize God's right to wage war. They do not participate in wars because they realize that only Jehovah has the solution for all of the problems on the Earth, as well as the Power to accomplish that. More to the point of this issue, I'd like to quote directly this scripture, which shows God's means for cleaning the Earth of wickedness:

Jeremiah 25:31-33 :
31 “‘A noise will certainly come clear to the farthest part of the earth, for there is a controversy that Jehovah has with the nations. He must personally put himself in judgment with all flesh. As regards the wicked ones, he must give them to the sword,’ is the utterance of Jehovah.

32 “This is what Jehovah of armies has said, ‘Look! A calamity is going forth from nation to nation, and a great tempest itself will be roused up from the remotest parts of the earth. 33 And those slain by Jehovah will certainly come to be in that day from one end of the earth clear to the other end of the earth. They will not be bewailed, neither will they be gathered up or be buried. As manure on the surface of the ground they will become.’

Note: As a resource for this comment, I used the May 8, 1997 Awake Magazine. Also, I'm willing to provide further notation/sources on request.

Okay, I'll take that offer. Thank you though for expressing your opinion politely, and for inviting a response.

In World War II, Jehovah's Witnesses refused to take up arms on any and all sides of the conflict. This is because Jehovah's Witnesses endeavor to do like the first century Christians; Jesus said that his followers were "no part of the world" and that "all those who take the sword will perish by the sword."(John 15:19; Matthew 26:52). During the second World War, this earned them persecution from many of the countries involved.

This though, is not to say that they are pacifists, because they recognize God's right to wage war. They do not participate in wars because they realize that only Jehovah has the solution for all of the problems on the Earth, as well as the Power to accomplish that. More to the point of this issue, I'd like to quote directly this scripture, which shows God's means for cleaning the Earth of wickedness:

Jeremiah 25:31-33 :
31 “‘A noise will certainly come clear to the farthest part of the earth, for there is a controversy that Jehovah has with the nations. He must personally put himself in judgment with all flesh. As regards the wicked ones, he must give them to the sword,’ is the utterance of Jehovah.

32 “This is what Jehovah of armies has said, ‘Look! A calamity is going forth from nation to nation, and a great tempest itself will be roused up from the remotest parts of the earth. 33 And those slain by Jehovah will certainly come to be in that day from one end of the earth clear to the other end of the earth. They will not be bewailed, neither will they be gathered up or be buried. As manure on the surface of the ground they will become.’

Note: As a resource for this comment, I used the May 8, 1997 Awake Magazine. Also, I'm willing to provide further notation/sources on request.

We're now in the 7th Creative Day. Adam was created in 4,026 BCE, Eve sometimes after that. The ""universe" was created before the Creative Days even began, untold eons before as it says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth". In short my friends all of the so-called "Christian" churches of the world have lied to you for almost 2,000 years. Not to mention it but the Mayans and their calendar is also a lie. Try December 21 2010 because since when is the number 2 to be trusted hmm? 20-10 => decimal. The only ones who have the straight Bible Truth is Jehovah's Witnesses => http://www.watchtower.org/ if you want to live through Armageddon into God's New World.

hehehe Crash course. Jesus said pray your flight not occur in winter? Why goodness me, that's NOW. So what if Jesus was really born in October... before the flocks had been brought into the caves for winter. sshhh, Israel winter, northern hemisphere. Want more? http://tinyurl.com/free-men-number-1 six pages of posts. It's your last bullet. Use it wisely.

No modern religion forces family members to give up their loved ones, picket outside the house of an 'unbeliever', or essentially, slavery.

Oh really?

The bible includes this. It designates 70 or 80 years as the life expectancy limit, with some able to live much longer to to "special mightiness" Psalms 90:10. One of many things that The Bible has been able to point out long before science.

Mormons are not Christians. And neither are Jehovah's Witnesses, for that matter. This may be a subject for debate, and of course the definition of "Christian" is a pretty blurry one.

Check your dictionary. Mine says "following the teachings or manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus Christ" (Word Net 2.0). I found about a dozen other definitions on-line, and they all read pretty much like that. Personally, I think the definition of 'Christian' is at least as clear as the definition of 'German', 'Canadian' or 'Italian'.

the church is Christian if it accepts any of the existing versions of the Nicene Creed as their symbol of faith

None of the definitions I could find mentioned the word "Nicene" in any form. Perhaps your definition is better suited to the word 'Nicene' than 'Christian'. That's not to say that the Nicene sects aren't also Christian, if they believe and follow the teachings of Christ, as the Mormons and the Witnesses do.

• Fulfilled Prophecy
• Accuracy and Integrity
• Etc...

• Fulfilled Prophecy
• Accuracy and Integrity
• Etc...

• Fulfilled Prophecy
• Accuracy and Integrity
• Etc...

I haven't missed a single one of your points. You continue to try and squeeze a square peg through a round hole. I based my air-powered engine on solid ground that was broken by great scientists YOUR PEOPLE shoved under a rug. And my having religious views well, you should be mature enough to MULTITASK THROUGH IT, not make demands I stop doing it to make you feel better. I had good reason to choosing to speak religion side-by-side with inventions. One of them was to keep God's Name rightfully stamped onto His Creation where it should be just like any inventor stamps his name on a Patent application. By making my inventions integrated with my religious beliefs as a minister of the Holy Bible kept me out of prison there fella. The government could have imprisoned me for the remainder of my life for introducing "Disruptive Technologies" to the Public {there is a law that gives them the right to do that}. So far their law against imprisoning a minister has trumped that law otherwise I would now be behind bars and you would still be ignorant along with everybody else.

You're resorting to name-calling? Calling me harmless? hahaha I'm impacting the entire world right now 9/24/2008 , the world that is thrashing around like the other Terminator in the hot molten tank trying in desperation to save itself from building my God-honoring engines. Apparently they have a deep respect for my "mythological" beliefs that are well-grounded in 5,000 years of previous humanity's ~including Greek and Roman philosopher-thinkers, our early scientists~ believing in them, plus just maybe they realize they AREN'T WORTHY ENOUGH AS HUMAN BEINGS BEFORE GOD'S THRONE TO BUILD THE ENGINES.

i.e. Engines that do not run on fuel but on pre-universe Laws of Physics. Hydrocarbon fuels took a long time to develop and dovetail nicely with the THEORY of evolution eh? But if you use a mixed fuel that indicates a Great Intellect designed everything in this Universe it doesn't tuck its tail under your godless beliefs... so you simply are forced to argue and whine all over SlashDot. Your stunted growth doesn't bother me. I've had an extremely productive day doing God's Work spreading the word that this planet was made a Paradise "In the Beginning" and still is. I packaged my best pdf files of 2008 into one small heat-seeking missile package as I was influenced by God's holy spirit to do this special day of September 24 2008 here: PDF PAGE and I strongly suggest you give some thought to the bottom 6 links on that page before you continue calling my ideas mythology. A preponderance of striking evidence is in my favor. As I stated to you long ago, there is a lot you do not know. Redeem yourself. Read those 6 links. I wish you well but I also pray you insight. The ideas you are choosing to believe over mine you got them from other humans, my equals not my superiors. Plus you're wasting time. Not mine; yours. We have literature explaining how your "scientific" information has problems and therefore amounts to so much brainwashing. You should be reading that. But if not there was a recent SlashDot article explaining how the Carbon Dating is grossly in error. Jehovah's Witnesses knew that 40+ years ago.

Whew, many great comments under this subject. Possibilities of multiples universes existing, all without the guidance of an incredibly intelligent Being we call our Creator God. However, if so many universes do exist what power holds them apart? Is there a level of SuperPhysics over all the different universe-level physics laws? Yep, there'd hafta be. And the plot thickens. Even though I'm one of Jehovah's Witnesses I could allow for a small space of possibility that God is not running the show ~that all of this just decided to happen~ except for a big problem. According to physicists every system is in some degree of degradation. Without God offering us everlasting life all we have is a wonderful glob of stuff that will all wind down like a clock to either stop or miraculously regenerate into another wonderful glob of stuff, complete with all new sets of living things whose only hope is to one day end again. By reading SlashDot I've learned about great areas in outer space where vast empty voids of nothing exist. By reading more SlashDot articles I've learned the universe is expanding Faster&Faster instead of slowing down... which consternates and befuddles scientists to explain why. And yet the Bible explains it very well. The "empty spaces" still being filled shows what the Genesis account of Creation already told us over 3,000 years ago. It says there that God rested on the 7th Day so we are still in that 7th Day of Creation. What we are observing is the finishing of Universal Creation still in the process of completing itself after God started the 7th Day off & running and rested as His orders executed. I wrote of this in a SlashDot article dated August 25 2007 plus explained about 2012 a good deal also and how the Native American Indian, Mayan and Biblical prophecies are all coming true in the same era or timespan not a particular year we can pinpoint. The Holy Bible has many answers coming true now that explains Man's continuing quandaries and consternations. Anyone who closes the door on the Bible is making a huge mistake. I started out my life being taught ("brainwashed") the Bible was true. I once thought about leaving God with many of you others but then decided nope, I'm going to play these cards. So far my Faith in my cards has helped me discover many answers, a lot of them here => askinventor.com/index.htm#IfGodcaresforuswhydoesntHedosomethingabouttheplanetsweather. I've shown how Peak Oil can be totally avoided by building circular energy "frictionless" engines => Universal_Energy_Truths_of_Real_Time_Grapevine_Energy.pdf .How I did all that? Because the Bible convinced me that God made this Universe for us to live in forever so He must have made technologies to one day run just as efficiently by our hand as the Universe runs by His Hand and neither of us is degrading down to Zero. That's your laws mandating failure not God's. Those who choose to believe in the half empty cup will reap an empty cup. On the other hand, by my believing in the Ancients like Moses as well as the Greek and Roman philosopher-scientists I've seen how to make a solar device that operates like a particle accelerator and an engine that runs in circles like a back-to-back waterwheel that substitutes metal balls for H2O water molecule

I agree that this should pose a problem for those who read the translations of the bible as a day meaning a literal day.
But it doesn't really make a difference for those who doesn't see "a day" as 24 hours as we know a day today. (Think about it, how would you define a day before the earth was created?).
Some of those who believes that the term "day" in Genesis and other places in the bible is this is Jehovah's Witnesses [warning religious content].
Anyhow I guess I am stupid to start discussing religion here on /. and trying to be serious about it, don't mean to be trolling. I just thought that saying that this is a problem for young creationists is true, but saying that it poses a problem for anyone who believes in the bible (or God?) is to take it a step to far.

Detroit is rolling out 40+ new versions of electric hybrid vehicles while last week we found out China is buying up the world's copper mines. The United States of America is being plunged into Economic Slavery to China. That isn't the worst of it either. The worst may be that I perfected the full system for my air+steam powerhouse engine a few months ago to give it more Power and more Speed than any of those vehicles will ever develop, and mine barely needs a battery. I been telling SlashDot'ers for years. You are being herded down Satan's cattle chute. I also told you this was a real good time to pray for God's Kingdom to come. I guess that didn't go over too well, but if I get one of you to visit a Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses and ask for a Bible Study... Satan delivers a never-ending plate of slavery while I have offered the power of God on a silver platter filled with meat & potatoes => http://www.newpath4.com/imitationenergy.htm .

"In short, [Atheism] has none of the hallmarks of a religion."

I disagree. Ever go here? Let's see...

charismatic leader? check.
book? sure, lots of em! Try "The God Delusion".
ceremonies? check.
hierarchy? Sure. There a several preeminent atheists that are followed by the rest. Atheists, being human, tend to follow people they admire. Who knew?

This flavor of atheism even has its own ministry. Care to go door-to-door and hand out these "religious" tracts? Actually, the message there is similar to that of some religious groups.

I sometimes see people make statements like "atheism is a religion like *not* collecting stamps is a hobby" and so on. It's just word games. If you define a religion as a body of people who adhere to a set of beliefs which are based on faith (and atheism is just that because you cannot *know* there is no God), then by that standard modern Atheism is a religion. One could reasonably argue that not believing in a god is not a religion, but we all know that the movement called Atheism is more than that.

Yeah. If it was Global Warming by Earth and Man causes, that would be doable with hybrid engines being slowly introduced to showroom floors. However, if the Sun is involved -as it surely is since Mars is also being similarly fried without the presence of Man- then the reaction of humans needs to PEAK, NOT STOP > http://www.newpath4.com/explainingBadwaterpdf.pdf (4-page discussion, development of 3 zero emissions engines).

But with this new information concerning solar power acceleration the reaction has been the OPPOSITE of that. Tearing down of the Gore statue in Iraq doesn't help a thing. It's grandstanding. Having Man's influence PLUS the Sun roasting us = we need to stop ALL engine emissions and factory emissions immediately. Ugh, meaning that Al Gore is more right than even Al Gore knows. Here's some of my best links > http://www.newpath4.com/homepagebiblegifs.htm > hmm. I forgot to put SlashDot on it. Rats. I'll fix that soon.

I would like to make a Public statement here today. Since my first 3 engines (lightning induction-electricity, air+steam engine, Home power Millenial Dawn) have not been accepted, my last #4 best engine -not on the pdf file- has been put in the hands of the Watchtower Society for safekeeping as my health is precarious. When the rapids get rough you'll have to ask them for it. You might wonder why them. Well, I put my my original Millenial Dawn papers in a Wachovia bank box for leverage to get a loan from them & they have chosen to sit at the back of the class, avoid the teacher's questions and do nothing. Since that accomplished nadamente, this alternate form of intellectual property protection was chosen. Push comes to shove, the bank would sit out the problem just as they are doing now. When you guys realize how hot the fire really is, contact the Watchtower Society, not a bank. The plans are in their temple vault.

That is an interesting point. I've never thought about it quite in that way. And you are right about the "don't change it" part, but the heaven part is debatable..." :)

My thought on that is this: while a specific religion may not change, my choice to belong to one can. And *should* change, if the beliefs and requirements disagree with what I as a person believe are right. And that includes believing in *any* religion in the first place. But that's no different than belief in science. It's not an all-or-nothing, once-made-always-made choice. It's something that you constantly have to re-prove to yourself.

Of course, the interesting thing is, if you believe in an all-knowing Creator, you would *expect* that he would not need to change his mind to fit the moment--in fact, you would expect him to consistently outline his standards, and keep it that way. Otherwise, he wasn't very all-knowing, now was he? :)

Maybe that's the difference between religion and science, and why some people are significantly opposed to it: religion requires that a person admit that their personal knowledge and judgement is not absolute. Of course, the things that people *do* in the name of "religion" (e.g. war, terrorism, etc.) certainly does not help people to value religion, either...

Anyway, an interesting point. You are correct: religion does not (well, should not) change. Science does. For some, maybe that change is comforting. For others, it conflicts with the idea of an intelligent Creator.

That is an interesting point. I've never thought about it quite in that way. And you are right about the "don't change it" part, but the heaven part is debatable..." :)

My thought on that is this: while a specific religion may not change, my choice to belong to one can. And *should* change, if the beliefs and requirements disagree with what I as a person believe are right. And that includes believing in *any* religion in the first place. But that's no different than belief in science. It's not an all-or-nothing, once-made-always-made choice. It's something that you constantly have to re-prove to yourself.

Of course, the interesting thing is, if you believe in an all-knowing Creator, you would *expect* that he would not need to change his mind to fit the moment--in fact, you would expect him to consistently outline his standards, and keep it that way. Otherwise, he wasn't very all-knowing, now was he? :)

Maybe that's the difference between religion and science, and why some people are significantly opposed to it: religion requires that a person admit that their personal knowledge and judgement is not absolute. Of course, the things that people *do* in the name of "religion" (e.g. war, terrorism, etc.) certainly does not help people to value religion, either...

Anyway, an interesting point. You are correct: religion does not (well, should not) change. Science does. For some, maybe that change is comforting. For others, it conflicts with the idea of an intelligent Creator.

That is an interesting point. I've never thought about it quite in that way. And you are right about the "don't change it" part, but the heaven part is debatable..." :)

My thought on that is this: while a specific religion may not change, my choice to belong to one can. And *should* change, if the beliefs and requirements disagree with what I as a person believe are right. And that includes believing in *any* religion in the first place. But that's no different than belief in science. It's not an all-or-nothing, once-made-always-made choice. It's something that you constantly have to re-prove to yourself.

Of course, the interesting thing is, if you believe in an all-knowing Creator, you would *expect* that he would not need to change his mind to fit the moment--in fact, you would expect him to consistently outline his standards, and keep it that way. Otherwise, he wasn't very all-knowing, now was he? :)

Maybe that's the difference between religion and science, and why some people are significantly opposed to it: religion requires that a person admit that their personal knowledge and judgement is not absolute. Of course, the things that people *do* in the name of "religion" (e.g. war, terrorism, etc.) certainly does not help people to value religion, either...

Anyway, an interesting point. You are correct: religion does not (well, should not) change. Science does. For some, maybe that change is comforting. For others, it conflicts with the idea of an intelligent Creator.

Why is it that "Faith in religion is BAAAADDD!!!" but "Faith in science is GOOOOODDD!!!" around here?

And for the record, real faith is *not* blind belief in *spite* of evidence. It is belief in something that has not *yet* been proven, but most everything *else* related to that subject *has* been proven. Hebrews 11:1.

As the second coming of christ began in 1914 that means it will be released in 3134 AD.

Read all about it here.

And the belief that because the product is more than the poster wants to pay, why then it MUST be overpriced

Do Fry's or Best Buy ask themselves "perhaps the way to lower shrinkage is to lower our prices?".

But on Slashdot, pricing strategy is the alpha and the omega of the piracy industry.

The Apostle Paul:
http://watchtower.org/bible/eph/chapter_006.htm#bk 19

More info here from the official website http://www.watchtower.org/medical_care_and_blood.h tm

Yes, but would your faith cause you to ostracise friends/family who left your religion? "It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative"
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/1988/4/15/arti cle_01.htm

An environment is also encouraged where people are discouraged to go to legal sources for aid, this is one example: Especially start two paragraphs before the "What Can Elders Do?" (Elders are like, congregation heads) section and read to the end of the next section.

"If the accusation is denied, the elders should explain to the accuser that nothing more can be done in a judicial way. And the congregation will continue to view the one accused as an innocent person. The Bible says that there must be two or three witnesses before judicial action can be taken."

http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/1995/11/1a/art icle_01.htm

If you haven't been a JW and left the religion, you can't understand the pain people go through. There are thousands of people on support groups on the internet for a reason! It is not a typical religion.
And yes, I'm sorry, I suppose Slashdot IS the wrong place to post about such things! :)

Yes, but would your faith cause you to ostracise friends/family who left your religion? "It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative"
http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/1988/4/15/arti cle_01.htm

An environment is also encouraged where people are discouraged to go to legal sources for aid, this is one example: Especially start two paragraphs before the "What Can Elders Do?" (Elders are like, congregation heads) section and read to the end of the next section.

"If the accusation is denied, the elders should explain to the accuser that nothing more can be done in a judicial way. And the congregation will continue to view the one accused as an innocent person. The Bible says that there must be two or three witnesses before judicial action can be taken."

http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/1995/11/1a/art icle_01.htm

If you haven't been a JW and left the religion, you can't understand the pain people go through. There are thousands of people on support groups on the internet for a reason! It is not a typical religion.
And yes, I'm sorry, I suppose Slashdot IS the wrong place to post about such things! :)

For those of you who are curious, Witnesses split themselves into two groups - a ruling class of 144,000 that will die and rule with Christ in heaven, and the rest, who will live forever in perfect bodies on Earth. The generally accepted cutoff date for getting into the ruling class was 1935, although they have left themselves some wiggle room for "replacement candidates" if one of the pre-1935ers renounced the faith before they died. In the chart linked above, "Memorial Partakers Worldwide" is code for members of the ruling class that are still alive. During their one and only yearly holiday (the Memorial of the Last Supper - a sort of JW eucharist), members of the ruling class partake in the unleavened bread and wine, while everyone else just passes the stuff around. It's also generally accepted that a large number of the partakers are self-deluded (being a member of the ruling class is not centrally organized - you are supposed to find out yourself via the Holy Spirit), so the exact number is a little fuzzy. The reported number for each congregation is the best guess of the local elders - they figure out who partook, and subtract out the obvious nutters.

If you really want to investigate why bloodless surgery is gaining ground in the medical industry then take a look at this article published by Jehovah's Witnesses. And before you turn up your nose because of the source of the article, you should really give it a read. The JW's have had a major impact on how the medical industry views this topic and many advances have been made because of them. Here's the article: http://www.watchtower.org/library/hb/index.htm?art icle=article_06.htm

Jehovah's Witness have a theological objection to blood transfusions, but unlike Christian Scientists, not to medical treatment in general. In fact, they are quite insistent on high quality healthcare.

As such, they advocate the use of blood transfer alternatives.

There are various groups of Witnesses that advocate changing the doctrine, but, however odd it may seem to the rest of us, it's one of core teachings of the church and has survived even when other once-rejected medical technologies (organ transplants, certain immunizations) have now been accepted.

This doctrine has caused the Witnesses to push the medical community to come up with many alternatives to transfusion. These alternatives include Erythropoietin Therapy, Hemopure, a bovine-hemoglobin based blood substitute (this was quite a surprise, as previously even animal blood was considered taboo), perfluorocarbon based blood substitutes (back when I was young, I knew Witnesses who had been guinea pigs for this stuff), and a host of others. There are also specific surgical guidelines published in dealing with Witnesses.

All in all, the Witnesses are one of the main driving forces for research into lessening the need for blood transfusions. There are others to be sure (type matching, blood shortages, infectious diseases carried by tainted blood, etc.), but nothing beats having a large pool of otherwise healthy patients who are highly motivated to be test subjects.

Jehovah's Witness have a theological objection to blood transfusions, but unlike Christian Scientists, not to medical treatment in general. In fact, they are quite insistent on high quality healthcare.

As such, they advocate the use of blood transfer alternatives.

There are various groups of Witnesses that advocate changing the doctrine, but, however odd it may seem to the rest of us, it's one of core teachings of the church and has survived even when other once-rejected medical technologies (organ transplants, certain immunizations) have now been accepted.

This doctrine has caused the Witnesses to push the medical community to come up with many alternatives to transfusion. These alternatives include Erythropoietin Therapy, Hemopure, a bovine-hemoglobin based blood substitute (this was quite a surprise, as previously even animal blood was considered taboo), perfluorocarbon based blood substitutes (back when I was young, I knew Witnesses who had been guinea pigs for this stuff), and a host of others. There are also specific surgical guidelines published in dealing with Witnesses.

All in all, the Witnesses are one of the main driving forces for research into lessening the need for blood transfusions. There are others to be sure (type matching, blood shortages, infectious diseases carried by tainted blood, etc.), but nothing beats having a large pool of otherwise healthy patients who are highly motivated to be test subjects.