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And I'm a complete idiot.

WWN covers this very topic:
http://www.winehq.com/site/?issue=199

How to compile 32-bit wine on a 64-bit system, specifically for SuSE! /me should check fuckinggoogleit.com

Wine is a wonderful example of what OSS can be. An eclectic mix of programmers from all over the world sharing knowledge and expertise to help build what may end up being one of the most complex (and difficult to implement) OSS projects ever.

So, given the amount of work they (the coders) have put in, anyone who has benefited from their work can give back a little. How? Bug reporting, software testing, submitting apps to the appsd, help with documentation, the wine wiki, etc...etc....etc....

http://www.winehq.com/

Winelib.

is me.

Linux is not just about freedom and power.
It is about extending that freedom and power.
Encapsulating all.

Vmware, Win4Lin, Wine.
Now if only I could get round making PearPC work ...

Support for Microsoft's installer has been a hot development item for Wine lately, but I may be mistaken if the challenge isn't looking for something that works better than what the Wine team has managed to build. Wine Weekly Newsletter

A full Wine replacement or similar product doesn't seem to be what they want through this challenge as I understand it.

So, they're asking for a system that's built on Wine, which is obviously GPLed ... yet they expect to own the new system?

What the hell?

...they're just starting to feel the pinch of transgaming, wine, Linux and a world that realizes we don't need them to have game.

Try compiling it under WineLib.
"Compiling apps under Winelib should theoretically involve only makefile changes."

WINE

So how would they feel about Wine?

And thank god I'm only watching the game, controlling it...

It does..

Wine does not actually emulate. Go to http://www.winehq.com/

Of course, wine makers support linux! Oh wait. wrong wine.

Of course, wine makers support linux! Oh wait. wrong wine.

It's likely Microsoft is going to need to take a less orthodox route to emulating the XBox than most game emulators take. Emulators fall into two basic categories: Hardware Emulation: Very compatible but also very slow, this is the route almost all game emulators take. The aim is to emulate the system's hardware, chip by chip and run the same software on top of this that the console would have run. API Emulation: Generally very fast, very buggy, and also very complicated. The idea is to intercept all API calls and translate them to native calls. There is usually a hardware emulation layer to fall back to when a call can't be translated. Famous emulators of this type include Wine and Executor It's VERY unlikely Microsoft could simply emulate every chip in the XBox1, the 360's CPU is simply not that powerful. It is impossible to emulate one CPU across multiple cores, so the 360 would be emulating a PIII 733MHz on a single core. The clock speed of the 360 is impressive but the chip is EXTREMELY simplistic, it doesn't even support out of order execution. Microsoft would also need to license a lot of patents from NVidia to emulate the GPU. This leaves Microsoft stuck rewriting Wine from scratch before November, and tweeking the emulator for each and every game.

I will bet you $10US that less than 20 games for the original XBox are officially supported on the XBox 360 by Microsoft when it launches in November.

WINE provides a set of Windows compatible APIs running on top of Linux. In theory this allows a developer to trivially 'port' to Linux by doing a recompilation of their unmodified windows source, against WINE. The result is a binary which runs natively on Linux.

Then there is the (possibly) more well known binary compatibility aspect of WINE, which allows Windows binaries to be executed with Linux.

WINE... http://www.winehq.com/

First off , This is great that they have had the fore sight to include the drivers to read and write NTFS .It is also very nice that they have included code weavers cross over office.This is great for getting some people to switch to linux , shame they didn't include cedega as well , which could of really completed the package , though this is a business edition.

But credit where credit is due , the article summary makes it seem like Xandros was responsible for these things.http://www.codeweavers.com/ code weaver site , responsible of Crossover office and naturally a link to wine on which Cross over office is based http://www.winehq.com/.
A link to the linux NTFS project http://linux-ntfs.sourceforge.net/ (I assume this is the driver they are using , correct me if I'm wrong)
(Cross over office is a great product , It also has a rather pleasant installer in my experience.So you don't need to switch distros .)

WHINE!
I mean.. Wine.

I have half a mind to install DOS 6.22 and Windows 3.1 on my 1.2 GHz box. Fewer unnecessary services, and programs really will open instantly.

You could try a minimal Linux distribution with a lightweight window manager. It will make your 1.2GHz computer seem very fast.

It is even possible (though probably non-trivial) to run your copy of Paintshop using Wine (a windows compatibility library for Linux). Otherwise there is Gimp which might be able to do the things you need.

Not only will you have a fast system, but also secure, up-to-date and still supported.

What, it's not working. You should probably inform the people who are trying to get it to work. Maybe they can fix your problems.

This isn't exactly news. As far as I recall, Disney started to move over to Linux a while back (slowly started to convert). Also, I'm pretty sure that Disney provides funding for Wine (Disney used Wine to run Photoshop, or so I heard).

There are just SO many things wrong with this, I don't know where to start.

For one thing you could recompile the application only rewriting the parts that are OS specific

You and what C compiler? An OS that takes advantage of more modern technology to eliminate security holes would by definition have to eliminate direct memory access. C can't function without direct memory access, and thus would have to be emulated. (As I pointed out in the original post.)

Secondly, you have heard of emulators

Why yes. Yes I have. I've heard so much about them, in fact, that I mentioned them in my original post. (Seeing a pattern here?)

for example WINE emulates the Windows OS environment so that you can run Windows application binaries without modification.

WINE Is Not an Emulator. WINE is a runtime linker. Period, end of story.

Given that, I don't think your argument holds much water.

It's very tempting to completely throw a skewer through such obvious flamebait. But I'm going to err on the cautious side and give you the benefit of the doubt. So I will say simply this: You need to do a bit more research before you attempt to jump into conversations at levels you don't understand. I realize that you're probably a rising star developer or sysadmin, but you need to be aware that there is a LOT more to learn. Go out and learn about hardware design. Write an OS or two. Do some CompSci-ish stuff and have fun. It will open your eyes to a completely different world of computing.

With that, I bid you adieu. :-)

I've always had to own at least one additional windows box to do quite a lot of programming on windows. Well, it's all about JNI-Bindings in my case...

So -- A fast VirtualPC would be like a miracle, and I suspect VMWare guys will get into the ring. I really love Apple for this step, because I really enjoy Mac OS X. For me this means I can get a decent Apple-PowerBook with excellent performance and top notch Windows-compatibility!

I expect some more players getting into the game:

• Game industry - porting of OpenGL powered games gets easier (= cheaper) than ever, no more AltiVec
• Wine and (of course) CodeWeavers for Wine/CrossOver Office on OS X
• Lot of heavily optimized media-related stuff running exclusively on Intel boxes due to SSE, SSE2, MMX...
• Much more Linux-stuff due to easier compilation of "poorly programmed" software that doesn't respect endianess and other stuff

Now, if only eclipse got faster on OS X!

The Wine project website used to have a good explination as to why they do it, and to answer these claims. Problem is, I can't seem to locate it at the moment.

http://www.winehq.com/

There's winelib, of course.

First of all, I doubt that OSX, evens if it runs on commodity x86 hardware, will seriously decrease Linux's marketshare. Linux enthusiasts and Free Software advocates are not suddenly going to switch over to a new proprietary OS just because it's available. (Raging anti-Microsoft zealots might though, but that's a segment of the population I think we can do without.)

However, this is a unquie opportunity for the Linux community and Apple to help one another and both gain a big chunk of Microsoft's userbase.

Imagine if Apple started contributing funds and/or developers to the Wine project, basically doing for Wine what they did for Khtml.

Imagine being able to tell someone that, yes, they can switch to Linux/OSX and still run all their Windows programs/games.

Imagine what that would do for the marketshare of both operating systems.

What's more likely is that the PowerPC versions of Linux will see development slow to a crawl

What's more likely is that the PowerPC versions of Linux will see development slow to a crawl

WINE/CrossOver uses the networked X wire protocol which can be piped through a encrypted ssh or a third party encrypt/compression system like the NX Terminal Server system. In combination with some of the newer dual/multi processor servers, a Office->WINE->NX pipe line can provide a better service to more people than the same hardware hosting Microsoft Terminal Server.

WINE/CrossOver uses the networked X wire protocol which can be piped through a encrypted ssh or a third party encrypt/compression system like the NX Terminal Server system. In combination with some of the newer dual/multi processor servers, a Office->WINE->NX pipe line can provide a better service to more people than the same hardware hosting Microsoft Terminal Server.

The Wine project has put together a list of resources to help someone thinking about this figure out a project. You might find the following helpful:

• SummerOfCode wiki page
• Fun Projects page
• Wine's mailing lists and irc information

The Wine project has put together a list of resources to help someone thinking about this figure out a project. You might find the following helpful:

• SummerOfCode wiki page
• Fun Projects page
• Wine's mailing lists and irc information

http://www.winehq.com/

sorry, i shoulda put the link to The Wine Project http://www.winehq.com/ in my last post :)

f you remove MSHTML.dll - all sorts of things will break

I wonder if the MSHTML.dll being built in WINE http://www.winehq.com/hypermail/wine-devel/2005/04 /0382.html, which enables HTML rendering over Gecko will let us dump IE completely. It will depend on how many hidden APIs are needed by Windows, I suppose.

From Wine's web site: Myths

As Wine's name says: "Wine Is Not an Emulator":

I think the developers of Wine would disagree with that.

Nevertheless, MS has cleverly played the...
With MS you can run LInux but with LInux you can't run MS card...

Sun came out with a PCi card that allowed people to run Windows NT in an X-server application window, primarily for CAD users who wanted to read Windows E-mail.

And of course, there is Wine which allows Windows application to run on Linux.

So Microsoft are going to have to compete somehow.

Slightly off-topic, but interesting for a lot of people nevertheless: these two software packages run excellent on the commercial Wine version of CodeWeavers, named CrossOver Office.

Since the 4.0 version they lowered the price to $40. Well spent, since they have most of the Wine hackers on staff. Note that I'm just a satisfied customer.

Like Wine (The Windows API emulator for *nix variants) with Cedega (ex WineX) and CrossOver Office, there is always a space for the development over open source software from enterprises with restricted licences.

It would be interesting to see whether it would run well under WINE. Old Delphi stuff seems to work quite well, but that's Borland, not M$.

I can do this already. We did a little experiment last year. Using the open source decompiler Boomerang you can turn a windows exe into C code. You can then simply recompile that source code on any platform using winelib including non-x86 platforms like PPC. Of course, you then have to test the app and ensure that it still works, which takes a fair bit of effort as winelib isn't exactly that portable and Boomerang isn't that mature just yet. But it is possible, and it's truely the highest performance way to "run win32 apps on PPC".

He's a hacker with a lack of experience in projects outside his own.

Are you sure? I thought he works pretty closely with Linux-related projects, when the need arises. For example, look here.

Note that Linus was the top poster for that week.

My past experience is that the inherit problems with Windows makes it a less productive environment eventually.
Security problems, Corrupted irrecoverable files, viruses, trojans, worms, and a system that decays with time - becoming slower and slower. Pure paranoia.

In Linux, sure there will be a learning curve often a long one.
1 year (?) .. it all depends how persistant you are.
But after that - you just can't possibly go back to using just Windows.

Now if you work with Windows files (Corel Draw, Excel Macros) or even program for Windows like i do (Visual Studio, C#)
you can set an environment to make the best of both worlds.
I use CrossOver/ Wine (for the common MS apps), Win4Lin (for a cute embedded Win98) and Vmware (Windows XP).
This way I have what it's not granted to Windows users : much choice, security and flexibility.

Most of the time I am on Linux (95%) - as I have some bad memories of Windows, also find it very boring and featureless.
Take for example your Internet/File Browser.
Does it come with Newsfeed? A W3C Validator? And complete FTP capabilitities?
I can FTP to a site, open up a document, edit it and when I save it - it uploads the changes for me.
How convenient is that?
I can exchange documents between many FTP sites with much ease.
What about if I right click on a file I can navigate through a series of pop-up windows displaying directories so that eventually I can click "Copy Here" or "Move Here".
In Windows you have to either CTRL+C then fiddle your way through various folders and then CTRL+V
Or perhaps open two Windows and drag and drop between them? Kinda Clumsy.

So its like that - much power and a lot of flexibility.

Our version of "Notepad" is so powerful, it recognizes the syntax and highlights your code be it HTML, CSS or even C#.
If you are on KDE .. Kwrite allows for 80+ different language or script markups, with colour-highlight and silent error checking.
Not to mention the cascading indentation trees ..

Then you need Outlook to have Sticky notes.
Ours work independantly, and accepts Rich Text Formatting.

The convenience of Virtual Desktop can only lend to better productivity.

Sure you probably can (given the time and resources) download all these gimmicks and add-ons from freeware and shareware sites.
But God knows what you've installed with it as well.

Linux makes even Windows users more productive and they can use it for their advantage.

See it as a tool and powerful infrastructure enviroment, rather than abandoning Windows for good and joining a restrictive cult.

The possibilities are endless and I could go on and on ...

Linux is very stable, much faster, more secure
So don't just have Windows - have two operating systems (or more) in one.
If you truly care about productivity - of course.
(and security, and stability, and speed, and peace)

Screw windows Linux scheduler under 2.6 doesn't work like the one in 2.4, the 2.6 scheduler makes it's own WRONG mind up about what priorities things should have.

WRONG from the point of view of someone who's trying to emulate Windows on Linux down to timings, perhaps. However, I have observed much better desktop experience under Linux 2.6 than 2.4, so from my point of view, the scheduler makes up it's own RIGHT mind about priorities.

As for the priority rubbish your spouting,

I'm not spouting anything, I referred to a post in the Wine development mailing list that discussed this problem. Quote: "The reason you see pretty steady 10 ms resolution on Windows is that the winmm thread on Windows is flagged as a priority 15 thread, so it does not get interrupted or time sliced away; it fires precisely when it wants to. It's much harder to achieve the same thing on Linux, sadly."

This certainly seems like real-time scheduling to me.

try editing MMTIMER to boost the priority and then running wine as root. (I'll send you a patch if you want?)

I'm not going to run Wine as root. If I did, however, I would try to use pthread_setschedparam to set the thread in question into real-time scheduling (but of course this runs the risk of deadlocking the system). Of course it might be a good idea to drop the root privileges afterwards.

In any case, Wine has bigger problems than sound support to worry about - fullscreen games don't work properly, for example Fallout 2 has the Gnome panel visible over it, and a crashing game leaves the screen in wrong resolution and sometimes "detachs" the mouse somehow, requiring X to be restarted to fix. Admittedly, the two last problems should be handled by the X server...

Regardless of windows the 2.6 kernel 'changes' things and the user cannot prevent it from doing so.

The user can most certainly avoid the changes in 2.6 - just use 2.4, it is still being maintained, after all. So is 2.2, for that matter - and http://www.kernel.org/ seems to contain a year-old release of 2.0 too.

Or did you mean that you want a kernel that's exactly identical to 2.4, except for the version number ? I'm sure that kind of patch would be easy to make ;).

And programs that rely on some particular timing charasteristics of the scheduler are buggy. They will randomly fail on any system, especially when it comes under load.

hmm... now why doesn't mmtimer work under wine properly... because the Linux kernel scheduler keeps messing around with it's priority and there's nothing the user can do except rm -rf /usr/src/linux and installing a 2.4 kernel

Right. Linux scheduler has different timings than the Windows scheduler, and as a result a Windows program that depends on some exact timing breaks on Wine. This obviously means that the Linux scheduler is broken - it doesn't mimic the Windows one exactly, after all.

Or it could be that the mmtimer thread is run at priority 15 under Windows (according to this post on wine-devel mailing list), allowing it to sleep exactly 10 ms and run uninterrupted (effectively real-time scheduling, apparently), whereas Wine runs as normal user and thus cannot use real-time scheduling.

read this...

From the first Wine newsletter, very first line:

"This is the first release of Wine's kernel cousin publication. Its main goal is to distribute widely what's going on around Wine (the Un*x Windows emulator)."

http://www.winehq.com/?issue=1#Service%20thread%20

First of all, wine is not an emulator as noted on their web page. And of course MS isn't under obligation to update the emulator, only their software. IE- WINDOWS. Their targeting of Wine and other API translators (like Wine) is nothing more than a stunt to anger the users of Windows within a Linux operating system.

If you're going to post rants, make them obvious so we can mod them down. This is nothing more than the obvious BS it is.