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Yes, I second this too. I am writing from a cafe in which I am playing Go, before heading to a Go tournament. Go is a very simple game in the playing with very few rules (admittedly counting is a little bit harder and there are various styles), from which an amazing array of patterns, concepts and playing styles 'emerge'.

This is a good website to have a nose around, I have found

At some point you should probably buy some books. There is a very complete Go Bibliography that will help you pick out books to start with. I suggest the Learn to Play Go series along with the Graded Go Problems for Beginners series.

From the Sensei's Library you can get links to find Go playing programs and also Go servers that will let you play go on the internet with people from around to globe.

It sounds to me like you need to read more about the game. For one thing, understand the handicap system. A stronger player (in this case the computer) should give a weaker player a number of handicap stones to compensate. This isn't a computer thing -- go players have been doing it for centuries, and it's one of the best things about the game.

Play Goban (or, more accurately, GNU go, which is what Goban uses) on a 9x9 board and have it give you 5 stones. Concentrate on keeping your groups alive. If 5 isn't enough, increase it. There's no shame in a handicap, only in not improving it over time.

More importantly, find another human. People all over play the game, and it's much more enjoyable to play with a friend than a machine. Get online and play on one of the go servers. Got questions? Visit Sensei's Library.

# but what is it that you get from playing Go?

Beside keeping your brain active (after all you need to continous learn), another property is worth spending the time. In Asia the "balance-of-things", which is tought by Go also highly tributes to the recognition of the game worth to be known by most of Japan's executive business men.

To give an example, and to comment on the real achievement of solving 5x5 Go, the smaller the Go board the more importance has your tactical skills. Like in chess the "reading moves ahead". I might say although the program used learning it might well be to have "just" found a good way of storing positions - never mind to do real strategy. Because on bigger boards (starting 13x13) strategy is another key issue. Finding the balance is the real key to mastering Go. Like in real life you can't get everything in one go, but sometimes allowing the other to win a tactical/local battle, will bring you forward in the big strategy. Hence Solving 5x5 Go misses out a most of the finer skills a real 1 Dan player needs to master.

You asked what it is worth, well, gaining real life experience will teach you that sometimes achieving a goal means holding the balance between different things. But it will so at costs, I like to put forward, that if you master Go, you will be able to skip some of the less pleasurable real life failures.

BTW these points are also made in The Way of Go (Senseis library review) Amazon page

Try it. The game is very, very challenging, way beyond chess in it's complexity. It should be possible to play with a headmouse too with long enough time settings. Basically it's a game of territory where both players, black and white, place stones in the crossings of a 19x19 grid. For more information:

An interactive tutorial
Kiseido Go Server - An Internet go server with an easy to use GUI and lot's of helpful people online.
Sensei's libarary - A good resource site in form of a wiki.
Goproblems.com - A Nice selection of Life & Death problems.
Gobase.org - Rumblings in the go world.

Write a program that can compete with or beat the best players of Go ( http://senseis.xmp.net/ )

Alzheimers occurs late in life; before the 20th century, the vast majority of people didn't live long enough to get it, whether or not they played Go.

A) Not true. Infant mortality rates were atrocious which put the average age down rather low. If you could get past your childhood years you could live quit a while.
B) Today there are several thousand professional players. The rate of Alzheimers is at least 5%. A good portion of the pro players are well into their years and yet there are no cases of Alzheimers or senile dementia among the group.

It's symptoms were simply considered to be general old age 'senility.'

Go has been proven to reverse the effects of senile dementia. And pretty recently too.

I very much doubt you have formal records to back up your statement.

1612 was used because that's how far back formal records of Go playing in Japan go. It's an official state game, they keep pretty good track.

CORRELATION != CAUSATION

Go has been show to literally reverse the effects of senile dementia. Like, they sat down a group of people getting it, taught them Go (only about 2 rules in the game yet miles more complex than chess) and they no longer were getting senile dementia.

True, quit literally it is not Go that stops mental illnesses. It's using both halves of your head that do it which is why chess players get Alzheimers and Go players don't. Look up Bridge and Alzheimers and you should find plenty of stuff showing Bridge stops it too.

Check this out, it's referenced with links.

Go is a very nice choice of game, but a go board is not square!
To appear square when you look at them they are actually made a little longer then they are wide. (usually 454.5 mm by 424.2 mm)

Also the black stones are a tiny bit larger then the white ones because the white ones would appear as bigger otherwise :)
Look at http://senseis.xmp.net/?EquipmentDimensions for more info, and come play Gathers on KGS!

This is the exact game I first thought of. You beat me to it. I want to add this quote which is one of my favorites about the game:

Those interested in impressing others with their intelligence play chess. Those who would settle for being chic play backgammon. Those who wish to become individuals of quality, take up Go.

Find it here as well as more info on the game.

The place is pretty confusing, but the Beginner Study Section isn't a bad place to start.

http://senseis.xmp.net/
Here's a wiki dedicated to Go. I've found it very useful.

http://playgo.to/interactive/
An interactive tutorial

http://www.britgo.org/cartoons/
comic for beginners

http://www.usgo.org/
the American Go Association

http://www.smart-games.com/igowin.html
demo version of "The Many Faces of Go". I highly recommend the full version, but it's very very expensive. if you get to the point that this demo is no longer challenging, you should probably purchase it...

http://gobase.org/software/editors/
SGF editor

http://gobase.org/software/clients/
play go online with other ppl

http://go-club.1up.com/
a club I started on 1up

http://games.slashdot.org/games/04/09/24/1742243.s html?tid=202&tid=106
like knoppix, but for go players

ok, that's all for now =P

Still doesn't compete with a real live opponent though.

Ariwhat? Play Go, you hippy!

It would be fairer to search in Chinese (wei qi or wei chi), Japanese (igo), and Korean (baduk, badook), especially using the actual characters.

There are huge differences between styles of Go players. Some play very solid defensive games. Others play slashing fighting games. Yet others play cosmic whole board strategic games.

The Pro Styles page lists over a hundred different professional players' styles.

KGS, the Kiseido Go Server, is a wonderful way for new and experienced players to enjoy the game of Go. It has a great user interface including the best support for teaching and reviewing games. The programmer, Bill Shubert, is a genius.

At times there are over a thousand users and hundreds of games on the server. There are many rooms. One of the most popular is the Beginner's room (in the Lessons group of rooms). Ask for it. KGS runs tournaments every so often. Some championship games are broadcast live. Professional players give lessons for hire and many strong amateurs will play you a teaching game. There are sometimes free pro lessons.

There are many tips and much discussion about KGS on Sensei's Library.

It runs on Linux, Mac, and Windows. It is free of charge (no charge for users from Japan or anywhere else).

http://senseis.xmp.net/?GreatQuotes

I guess you should read about it or ask someone to teach you.

What is this game? Is it any fun? That sounds pretty cool.
There's a link in the submission to a site that will tell you everything you ever wanted to know about Go. If you're really too lazy to go back it's here.

That's friggin' harsh. I'm guessing you've never read Paradise Lost, Ulysses, or Wasteland.

You're right.

I soon am still to read Ulysses, and perhaps Paradise Lost as well. Have so much else to read at the moment, as well as trying to reach dan-level in Go, learning to Tango, doing tai-chi and yoga, watching new art movies, programming C++, learning SAP and competing in Magic (the Gathering) and computer gaming competitions.

:P

See my response to someone else about this for elaboration on my 'harsh' comment.

I am very glad that you've posted about Go. It's a beautiful game and more people in the western world should know about it.

That said, I've never understood why so many Go players treat Go and Chess as an either/or, one vs the other type of choice. I play both Go and chess, and while I can easily see that there remain much greater challenges in computerized Go playing programs than in Chess (For those who don't know, the best Go playing programs play at roughly the level of an intermediate amateur human player), this fact does not take away from the fact that chess is still an interesting game, both to play and, I'm sure, to develop better computer opponents for. Nor does the work being done on chess take anything away from Go development.

While I'm here, I may as well post a Go wiki link in a wiki that's all about Go. I realize you (parent poster) probably know about it, but just in case anyone is interested in learning more about Go, I figure it's a nice starting point.

That's not redundant at all. Mod parent up. Sensei's Library is a very good website. It's a Wiki devoted to Go, and it's loaded with all sorts of strategy and tactics.

You should try learning the Game of Go.

Senseis

I find the game to be not only fun but also rife with philosophical implications. It reinforces certain lessons of everyday philosophy, for instance the importance of trying hard (my games vary widely in quality, depending on effort and attention) and maintaining some humility (just when I think I've gotten good, someone comes along and wipes the board with me).

But then he goes on to make a discussion about platonism that could IMHO be made much better (and would be more interesting) in relation to mathematics.

It hapens that I have just (about two hours ago) written a short essay on how to improve in another board game. What I didn't dare saying there is that you cannot seriously improve in go without trying to improve get an overall positive attitude towards life, somehow trying to be on top of it.

I would certainly have loved to see a chess player's take on that topic. Chess is probably still a little more competitive than go (in the Western culture), and they might well know more about it than we go players do.

Online play is okay, but snapping down stones in person is so much more enjoyable.

-chad

... many Japanese speakers reverse their R's and L's

Here are some nice examples of this and more. It also goes the other way.

They can however easily go on for 206*2**155, or about 10**49 moves, as explained on

http://senseis.xmp.net/?path=Speculation&page=Numb erOfPossibleOutcomesOfAGame

-John

This reminds me of Sai playing online via Hikaru in Hikaru No Go.

... is thousands of years old. Unfortunately, no one can be told how awesome Go is. You have to experience it for yourself. And it requires patience (which is why it hasn't taken off in the US :)

Playing the game is most necessary - computer programs(GNUGo and Igowin are both worth checking out) can challenge any new player these days, but humans will usually be more helpful to learn from because they play less predictably and if they're polite will review the game with you afterwards to help point out mistakes.

If you can join a local club, do so. While you can get an online game almost any time of day, it's far better to play with a real board and stones and people you can see.

Once you have a few months of experience you should be able to understand what's going on in a lot of higher-level games. They are excellent to learn from.

Have to agree with the parent post. Go is a really fun strategy game, and unfathomably deep.

If you are into anime or manga at all, I suggest you check out Hikaru no Go. It is a surprisingly accomplished series, especially considering its silly premise and intended audience of young Japanese boys.

This is a great site that really helped me learn Go. I also advise you to grab one of the numerous Go playing programs and start with a smaller board for a few weeks. Have fun!

This is actually what the whole Wiki revolution is for. Wiki is an easy-to-use web-based collaboration system. It's been in use for years at a number of great sites.

One interesting site, Portland Pattern Repository, contains lots of pages that various programmers have put together to describe their experiences programming. For instance, you can find a lot of information about the Singleton Programming Pattern.

Another site that really shows the power of Wiki is Sensei's Library (a website for learning Go.)

So I would look through the available Wiki's and see if any match your intended audience. Then start creating your pages and go to town...

Sensei's Library, a very useful and complete WIKI-site for information related to Go (the boardgame) also has such a patent-law protest as its frontpage currently.

Computers are still very weak at this Asian board game. And despite many people trying to make substantial progress with that. The best open-source one, GNU Go, is btw not very far away from the best commercial ones.

There is a Go Wiki with, among other things, a short introdcution.

The bamboo joint can't be cut!

I'm not sure how you'd make a bike from it, though.

I was beginning to wonder if anybody was going to mention Go. I personally feel that Go is a much better game to judge computer AI by because it requires more creativity. You can't win at go by reading through every possible combination - there are just too many of them. A player must be creative and intuitive as well as technically minded and able to read through variations several moves ahead.

Just to put things into perspective: This article is about the debate over whether computer chess is really on the level of the Grand Masters yet or not. In the Go world, this question is absurd. A reasonably strong professional (not even necessarily a proven title holder) can give a handicap of well over 9 stones (this is approximately equivalent to a 9 rank difference in strength - an enourmous difference in Go) to the leading computer go programs, and demolish everything on the board.

Yes, it's true, I'm a Hikaru no Go Junkie.

I've heard rumors that it's going to be released here in the States soon. I just hope it has the same effect here as in Japan on the popularity of go.

The Go game is definately something to look at. Indeed, no computer is actually able to beat an average amateur player. Some reasons behind are are huge branching factors, bigger board size, more visually oriented game...

According to this Computer Go discussion:
There is much yet to be done in the field of computer go. While many different approaches have been tried, the level of the best go playing programs is still low, even compared to amateur dan players (at least 10 stones !), not to mention professionals...

Go is really worth trying

It's true that a great many chess grandmasters are not what you would call well adjusted, but it's interesting to note that the top players of the other contender for the world's top strategy game, Go, are generally psychologically healthy. The amount of study required is comparable. Maybe it's something about the game...

Go is definitively harder.

Disclaimer : IAAPP ( professional programmer ) and IAAGP ( go player ) ;-)

The trick is not about the branching factor that is quite high in go, and small in chess.

The thing is that in go many local battle are fought on each region of the board. Each of those battle are usually fair. Fighting more for one region will make it yours. However, during that time, the opponent will secure another region.

So far, no problem, use the divide-and-conquer method, solve every region, and then use a sum-of-game technique to play the whole board. However this doesn't work. Every region has many ways to be fought over, and the way you fight in a region will affect all the other region of the board.

Professional players just *know* or *feel* that playing in a certain way will help another region. They have a very informal perception the relationship between the regions. This is something we don't know how to model. Usually people will refer to it as instinct. I tend to believe that it is the years of practice that enable pros to see those pattern.

Also, Go seems to be only a grid with either nothing, a white or a black stone. In fact, much higher-level concept are seen by go players, and as long as we don't model those in a go AI, go AI will suck.

See sensei to get an idea of the high-level concepts we need to model to program a Go AI. BTW, this is a cool wiki board about Go. Great place to learn.

So, when we'll be able to model high-level stuff like that and program AI rather than do brute-force hacks like Deep Blue, we'll have a Go AI. In the meantime, we humans rule.