2004 Board Games Gift Guide

The Morning News has come out with a nice guide to good gift boardgames, while Funagain Games has the list of the 2004 Board and Card Games of the Year (and the runners-up). Like a bowling ball with your name engraved upon it, these make great gifts for your significant other. Any other suggestions for good adult boardgames?

Comments

Do not pass "Go"

[SIGALRM]

The last time you played a board game you got the Adam's apple caught in the funny-bone slot and then you couldn't pass GO or collect $200

Speaking of Go... now there's a fantastic game of strategy; one I've only recently discovered. The potential for complex and intricate maneuvering seem (like chess) to be limitless. I've heard there are Go masters who have played for fifty years and still consider themselves to be serious students of the game.

Me: still a Go newbie but loving every minute of it.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[entrager]

Want a headache? Look into the current state of "Go" in the computing world.

It's amazing how simple the game is, yet the best computer programs in the world only play at an intermediate level at best.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[leoval]

Thank you for the reference and link about "Go". I have seen the game many times before in our local Toys R us but never got interested on it. I will definitively give a try as soon as I can.

It is embarrassing but I must confess that I thought that Othello was one of the most complex board games (no counting chess). This just shows how little I know about games around the world.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[ch-chuck]

is|are there any online "Go" action with real human opponents like there is for Chess? I'd love to play a few games but, of course, nobody in the immediate meatspace vicinity is interested.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Star Stealing Girl]

http://games.yahoo.com/ Look under "Board and Tile Games"

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[nkh]

http://kgs.kiseido.com/, download their full-featured Java client and play alone (with a book full of exercices) or online for free on their server.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the exact game I first thought of. You beat me to it. I want to add this quote which is one of my favorites about the game:

Those interested in impressing others with their intelligence play chess. Those who would settle for being chic play backgammon. Those who wish to become individuals of quality, take up Go.

Find it here as well as more info on the game.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Sabaki]

Go is actually far more complex than chess in strategy and tactics (see earlier note about the best computer programs being only as good as intermediate level players [like me], and much weaker than professional level players).

On the flip side, it's actually easier to teach than chess (fewer rules, no difference in the pieces), so it fits a guideline in the article ("can be taught within five minutes") much better than most, if not all of the games in the article.

Incidentally, if you do get a board, you might want to get one online. Places like Samarkand have good stuff. And the US Go Association has links to more vendors as well as local clubs.

(Incidentally, "sabaki" is a Go term meaning light and flexible play.)

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[johnjay]

After playing Go for a bit, I found this book at a local game store The Second Book of Go. I remember being pretty excited about it at the time--it seemed to be exactly the sort of "just past beginner" book that I needed.

Shortly after studying it, most of the people I played Go with ended up leaving town for various reasons, so I haven't played much since and I bet I'm a pretty awful player at this point. Hopefully your mileage will vary.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[smclean]

Also check out IGS, http://www.pandanet.co.jp/English/

Lots of nice feature-rich linux clients support it.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[snorklewacker]

If you want to enjoy the game of Go, then don't get those dinky little boards from toy stores. Those are about as fun as playing chess on one of those plastic clamshell travel chess sets -- actually even worse, because there's so many pieces to jostle around. Get a set of regulation stones (about $25, google for "regulation go stones") and a vinyl mat. Ishi press is a good place for both of those. A set will cost you maybe $10 more than what you'd pay at toys-r-us. If you have the bucks, get a full size board, but I'm always fine with the mat -- it's a lot more portable.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Anonymous Coward]

Trust me, you'd rather play at kgs.kiseido.com. Yahoo doesn't use standard ranking, and is full of people who escape losing games. KGS is full of friendly people who actually want to help each other improve. KGS has an extensive set of features for reviewing games and examining alternative plays. KGS rankings tend to be close to real world rankings.

In short, learning Go at KGS is fun, while learning Go on Yahoo is horrible. Your milage may vary, of course.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[pcraven]

My understanding is that "Go" has a huge branching factor. Chess has a fewer number of moves. And many of these are obviously poor choices. "Go" has a larger number of possible good moves. This makes it harder for the computer to 'look ahead' at the different possibilities.

It has been a while since my AI class. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[smclean]

Me too, especially because I've already dropped hints to my girlfriend that what I want for xmas is a nice quality Go board. I've still never played anywhere but on the computer on IGS, and it sure would be great to have a nice board on my coffee table. Lots of people tell me it's far more fun to play with another in person.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[entrager]

You're both wrong and right...

Before I go on, I have to point out that I only have a deep interest in AI, I haven't actually started my post-grad coursework in it yet (hopefully next year). So my information might not be 100% correct (I look forward to someone correcting/supplementing my post). I should also add that I play Go on occasion, but I suck at it...

Go does have a very large branch factor, so brute-force techniques to playing well are nearly impossible (or take WAY too long to compute). Chess doesn't have a large amount of branching (relative to Go), so brute-force is actually somewhat effective. But the real problem comes when trying to actually write an AI that makes decisions instead of exhausting all possibilities.

In Go, there is a very large amount of information to process. The relative strengths of each player in each position of the board, the aggressiveness of the other player, common move patterns, and of course the number of possible outcomes of an action. Simply put, Go is simply too complex to represent and analyze in a simple manner.

It's my understanding that successful Go programs work by simply looking up common scenarios in a large database of pre-programmed moves, supplementing that with some basic neural network pattern recognition, and then narrowing down decisions with a brute force attack on a reduced set.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Hyksos]

The potential for complex and intricate maneuvering seem (like chess) to be limitless.

Actually, the number of possible moves in a game of Go far outnumbers those in chess. In fact, they outnumber the number of atoms in the universe! (The estimated amount at least). Even if you discard all the really stupid moves you're still left with a ridiculous amount. This is why it is so hard for computers to play Go, since they can't really brute-force any unexpected moves.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're looking for lightweight version of Go, try Through the Desert.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/503

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[ChuckleBug]

Actually, the number of possible moves in a game of Go far outnumbers those in chess. In fact, they outnumber the number of atoms in the universe!

The possible number of moves in a 40-move chess game also outnumber the number of atoms in the universe.

Yes, Go has much more branching, complexity, etc. But the Go players' hype is a bit misleading. It's like comparing the damage done to someone who jumps off a 30 story building with that to someone jumping off a 110 story building. The latter will hit a lot harder (let's just ignore terminal velocity for this analogy, OK?), but 30 stories is hard enough. Chess is hard, and complex, enough to devote a lifetime to.

I'm not bashing Go (I like them game, and recommend it, but I'm more into chess), but I get tired of all the Go fanatics acting as if Go makes chess look like Slapjack. It does not.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[heikkile]

The branching factor is one serious difference: Some people claim that chess has about 10^120 different possible games. Some people estimate the number of different possible go games to be 10^720. Some people jokingly conclude that go is 10^600 times harder than chess.

Of course, the branching factor and game-space size are not the only relevant considerations. In chess there is a simple and fast evaluation function (just count the pieces). Granted, it may not be perfect, but it is possible to write a decent chess program with just it, and a deep enough search.

Un(?)fortunately in go there is no such simple evaluation function. just moving one stone a bit can change a huge group from being an asset into being a liability. Estimating the status of a group is in itself a hugely complex problem. And there can be many groups on the board...

As they say, if chess can be compared to a battle, go can be compared to a war.

Of course, since it is an intersting game, and one that no computer plays all too well, there is some interest in writing a better go program. The (one of the??) Open Source alternative is http://www.gnu.org/software/gnugo/gnugo.html

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[captwheeler]

Go programs work by simply looking up common scenarios in a large database...

Humans do to; they are called Joski and there are many of them. The hard part is that a sequence is not definitive -- its just one small area of the board and it's linked to all the other areas with different strategies. This is very different then an opening sequence in chess where all the pieces start in the same place, or even a latter game sequence where a common arrangement might arise. The Go board is just too big for this. Brute force is impractical for the strategic decisions.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[ChaosDiscord]

On the flip side, it's actually easier to teach than chess (fewer rules, no difference in the pieces)...

As someone who has casually played Chess for years and has spent the last month or so learning Go, I'm less certain about this.

In terms of learning the rules, Go is certainly simplier, but it's jarring to many people. While Chess requires memorizing a bunch of arbitrary moves, the core ideas are obvious to people: pieces move from space to space, you kill (capture) other pieces, you're trying to get the leader (king), you're on one side the other guy is on the other now charge. In Go you play on intersections, you surround territory (and have to learn to recognize when surrounded territory is still in play), you rarely remove pieces. As The Interactive Way to Go puts it, "Go is sharing game." That's a weird idea for most western game players.

Similarlly, basic Chess strategy is relatively obvious; you get surprisingly far with just rough ordering of the value of the pieces (pawn < knight or bishop < rook < queen < king) and a few simple strategies (claim the middle, threaten as much space as possible). This based on my own experiences. I know I suck and my strategies are childish at best, yet I stomp most people I play. It's rare to have a "wouldn't it be fun to play" with someone who plays seriously. Of course, against a serious player I'd be crushed flat.

Go strategy, the on other hand, is harder to understand. You're confronted with a huge number of possible moves (I'm only just becoming comfortable with 9x9 boards; full 19x19 boards scare me). The early game tends to look confused and scattered; you're looking for general patterns. At first you'll be spending your time fretting over forming eyes and seeing ladders. I'm starting to grasp that I'll often need to ignore opportunities to capture or block my opponent's advance because I know I can block them later and can make an offensive move instead. (This is also true in Chess to an extent, but I'm finding I need to track many more "keep an eye on now, but do nothing now" positions, again on the small 9x9 board.)

I'm enjoying the heck out of Go, but I'm not convinced it's necessarily easier that Chess for a new player. To make a crude generalization, I suspect most "Western" minds more easily mesh with a small pile of rules and straightforward strategy than simple rules but holistic strategy.

That said, I encourage everyone to take some time to learn Go. The Interactive Way to Go is a great gentle introduction with lots of Java boards to practice concepts on.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Anonymous Coward]

It's my understanding that successful Go programs work by simply looking up common scenarios in a large database of pre-programmed moves, supplementing that with some basic neural network pattern recognition, and then narrowing down decisions with a brute force attack on a reduced set.

Um.. no.

Computer Go is very much in its infancy, and pretty much all computer go programs operate by using hand-coded heuristics to suggest moves, and then doing lots of old-fashioned local search. While there are some pattern databases used, as well as opening 'books' for common beginning-game corner patterns (joseki), in general, large pattern databases are not used, though there are some people working on this approach. Only one well-performing Go program I can think of uses neural networks; it's definitely very atypical.

The problem with Go is not just the branching factor; while obviously it's a difficulty, it's not the largest problem in computer Go. The problem isn't that not enough positions can be checked in a reasonable amount of time, the problem is that not even one position can be accurately checked in any practical amount of time - that is, coming up with a good evaluation function has been a major challenge. In lay terms, a computer cannot look at a Go board and accurately judge how good or bad the position is. When humans look at a board position, they use lots of fuzzy, partially defined concepts like, 'thickness,' 'influence,' 'territory', and 'potential' that are very hard for one human to explain to another, let alone get a program to perform the same analysis.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[arose]

Your search - "regulation go stones" - did not match any documents.

On a related note, can someone suggest an inexpensive Go store that delivers in all Europe?

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[arose]

Avoid Yahoo, KGS and DGS are good places to start with internet Go.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Sabaki]

Yep, I very specifically didn't say that Go was easier overall, just that it's easier to teach. I was playing Chess for twenty years before I learned about en passant. I've taught Go to classrooms of kids within a few minutes, and they got a kick out of playing right out of the gate. But I admit that the strategies and tactics get complicated quickly, which is why I always advise the 9x9 board for beginning players. As for the Western mind being used to the concepts behind Chess, but not Go, all the more reason to expose more people to the latter. I think if we all had a competitive mindset that only required a little more than our opponent, rather than violent, bloody death, we'd be better off. (Granted, it's certainly not a panacea in Asia.)

Incidentally, "claim the middle, threaten as much space as possible" are valid Go strategies, too.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[xenocide2]

It is indeed true that Go has a large space of possible board positions, and that it also has a huge number of possible moves for each player. But that alone doesn't make Go a difficult problem. The critical element is how one measures success.

Most people measure the success of an AI by its comparability to humans, especially in games. It's important to note that not every AI researcher agrees; some feel that the state of the art is what matters more than material success. That aside, there is a game that plays similar to Go, and features similar gamespace factors: Othello. Despite this, computer opponents usually trounce their human counterparts.

Go never recieved the attention that Chess programs do in the States, which partially explains why the state of the art lags behind other game agents. But behind that surface analysis, I've found that today's researchers in the field feel that human Go players utilize a strong sense of pattern recognition that common min-max and other brute forcing techniques fail to capitalize on. The human pattern finding ability quickly outpaces move searching, because the board doesn't change much. We can predict much of what the future will look like from the present. Reversi/Othello is a contrast to this property, where every move can drastically alter a number of pieces and potential moves therein.

I have to admit that I too haven't a PhD in the field, but to my credit I share an interest in the field, and I've studied under a fairly brilliant mind in the field. This is my meager understanding, and probably indicates why you can't play a Go game against a bot on Yahoo! games ;)

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[ynohoo]

A good place to find Go sets is your local Korean or Japanese store. Korean sets tend to be slightly smaller, but much cheaper. Glass "stones" are preferable to plastic ones, although you probably don't want to splash out on a slate & shell set until you are already addicted :-)

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[ynohoo]

I'd assume he means the larger Japanese sets. Depending on where you are in Europe: "Chess & Bridge" on Euston Road in London carries some rather expensive sets.
If you pick up a copy of IgoWin (9x9 free version of "Many Faces of Go" computer program), it has contact info for another store in Amsterdam.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[arose]

I'm in Latvia and as far as I know there are no local stores, certainly not in my town. The Amsterdam store you probably mean is this one, they never replied to my mail...

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[ynohoo]

Yes, that was the one :(

the European Go Federation has contact info for a club in Riga, contacting them may help. The best range of Go sets and books I've found were at a Go tournament, but the seller did not have a shop. This page also had some useful shop addresses. Good luck!

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Khaotix]

that'd be joseki. Joseki tend to be swell to work through and learn how to approach situations but just playing through various joseki won't win a game.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Khaotix]

intermediate is being generous. Give someone six months of playing Go and I doubt they'd have a problem against any of the programs out there.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Anonymous Coward]

Othello is NOTHING like Go (except that you play on a grid and even then, Othello is played in spaces and go ON THE grid, and the pieces are black and white).

You seem to imply that Go players rely on pattern playing. This is quite definitely NOT the case. Patters only really play a part in small areas of the board for Go (the aforementioned joseki). When it really comes down to it, go involves a LOT of strategic planning which DO NOT follow patterns. Players must decide where to play, where to be proactive, reactive, whether it is advantageous to attack or go off to find new territory, etc. Patterns only work on smaller 9x9 boards, whereas the majority of serious go players will only play on either 19x19 or 13x13 boards.

Othello can be patterned because there are only so many moves that can be made. A computer can easily predict the outcome of the board even 5 moves down the line, because there are so few paths that the game can follow. Go is not so limited. On a 19x19 board, there are probably over a hundred possible moves until the mid to end game. Even though the number of strategically sound moves is much less than this, it still dwarfs the TOTAL number of possible moves at one time in Othello.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, claim the corners is almost always preferable to claim the middle in go. It takes half the pieces to claim the same area in a corner than it does in the middle.

I will agree, teaching go fundamentals is simple. Teaching go tactics and strategy takes forever.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Anonymous Coward]

AH, but if we both agree to let you have 4 corners, I end up with the middle, and hopefully the sides too. You loose. This was a free paraphrase of a famous go proverb (owning 4 corners is losing game).

Interestingly, there is also a counter proverb which (obviously) states that owning 4 corners wins ;-) Which is the more typical strategy for Go.

Unfortunately both are obviously right (or wrong, depending on your general view on life): it all depends on how big your corners are :-D.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, playable on a Go board, the game of Go-Moku. In a nutshell, it is tic-tac-toe but with 5 in a row on a 19x19 board.

Short and sweet, but has kept me busy for many an idle moment. Why can't someone write a Go-moku program I could play on my cell phone?

Has anyone noticed the dearth of good cell phone games? They all tend towards stupid arcade games!

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Anonymous Coward]

Friend, nobody is bashing chess here. But it *is* a fact that it is harder to model/crack go than it is to model/crack chess.

And the branching factor, and possible number of moves are important factors contributing to that fact, but not the only ones.

One thing that always amazed me, is that nobody sees fit to mention that it is possible, and even likely, to have two or more simultaneous, independent conflicts in the same go game. I have never seen that in a game of chess (although that doesn't mean much, really ;-)) But it hardly simplifies matters on the go side of things.

Another thing is that in go you use different KINDS of strategies and evaluation 'procedures', which are much more qualitative than the chess variants (which is *not* to say that the quantitaive has no place in go). Have you ever tried to have a PC practise qualitative reasoning?

Well, there is probably much more that could be said about modeling/cracking Go vs. chess, but let's not expose my ignorance, eh? ;-)

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Bob Uhl]

What's really bad is that I still suck at it. *grumble*

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[ChuckleBug]

Friend, nobody is bashing chess here. But it *is* a fact that it is harder to model/crack go than it is to model/crack chess.

Fact not disputed. It's not that I feel like chess is being bashed. I guess it's that I have been around here a long time, and I have "Go complexity" fatigue. Just watch, whenever there is a post about chess, you'll see a raft of knee-jerk "Go is better. It's more complex. Play Go instead. I am cool because I'm different" posts. When there's a discussion of Go, it's always in comparison to chess, and I just think that's kind of silly. It's just irritating, like that annoying relative who, when you want to talk about sailing, loudly changes the subject to his new powerboat. It isn't that I would think he was bashing sailing, just that a) he hijacked the discussion to a different subject (which isn't really the case in this thread) and b) making a dumb comparison.

Besides, if you want to be cool and different, play shogi. :-)

And the branching factor, and possible number of moves are important factors contributing to that fact, but not the only ones.

True.

One thing that always amazed me, is that nobody sees fit to mention that it is possible, and even likely, to have two or more simultaneous, independent conflicts in the same go game. I have never seen that in a game of chess (although that doesn't mean much, really ;-)) But it hardly simplifies matters on the go side of things.

This is partly due to the size of the go board, combined with the fact that individual pieces don't have a wide scope that can directly affect the other side of the board as chess pieces can. So yes, Go games usually have several smaller battles taking place.

Chess can, too, but not to the extent of Go. Usually when you have this kind of situation it's something like a kingside attack vs. a queenside attack. But you can't take a Go stone and bring it to another part of the board to help out like you can in chess, so it's more "compartmentalized." Which is another reason I think the comparison is flimsy. The games are just so fundamentally different. They're played on boards with black and white pieces taking turns, and that's *it*. If comparisons must be made, the aforementioned shogi is much better for that.

Another thing is that in go you use different KINDS of strategies and evaluation 'procedures', which are much more qualitative than the chess variants (which is *not* to say that the quantitaive has no place in go). Have you ever tried to have a PC practise qualitative reasoning?

Part of the reason Go is considered more qualitative is due to the complexity. It's just a lot harder to be quantitative. (Imagine the complexity of chess if it were played on a 19x19 board!) One of the battles in the computer chess world was between the "brute force school of thought and the "chess knowledge" school. Brute Force won initially, but it's getting to the point of limited returns, and there's more talk of adding "chess knowledge" to make the programs stronger.

I think a contributing factor in the relative weakness of computer Go is that nowhere near as much effort has been expended on making Go programs as there has been in chess.

Sorry for the length. I'm feeling chatty today. :)

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Sabaki]

Ah, but this isn't what I said. I said that center influence is an important strategic principle.

The ideal order of play is "Corners, side, center" for claiming territory. But for influence, the center is preferred, but the power radiates across the board.

Controlling the center in chess is strictly influence-oriented, too. It doesn't win you the game on its own, but it helps.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Anonymous Coward]

interesting that you mention shogi (BTW, I do play shogi too ;-)). One of the things that shogi shared with go, and not with chess (besides b&w taking turns), is that it can be played on different size boards. Did you know there is a shogi for 41x41? (it might be 43x43, i don't remember precisely. HUGE,anyway).

I wonder what anybody can say about the complexity of shogi, and how that relates to cracking/modeling shogi. In any case, the gnu shogi program is not much better than gnu go in terms of playstrength (i.e beginner level)

Anyway, I don't completely agree with you about go stones not having a board-wide influence. Think ladders (i forgot the japanese term), and especially think some wide area crossing ladders.
Also think influence. With relates to ladders, among other things.

And as to brute-force vs. knowledge, deep blue had an extensive lib of chess data (i.e. knowledge) to make use of. Nevertheless, brute-force seems to outperform knowledge (even human chess knowledge), so I wouldn't look down on it.

In fact, when brute-forcing Go becomes possible, I suspect it will be a powerful oponent. It will have several advantages, in the sense that you can forget all this qualitative stuff, and just count the endresult, since a lot of that qualitative stuff is estimating how things will end up ...

ehhr, obviously I meant averaging the count of all endresults of some local situation. ;-)

Anyway, this is getting long too. Sorry

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[ChuckleBug]

Did you know there is a shogi for 41x41? (it might be 43x43, i don't remember precisely. HUGE,anyway).

I did not know that. Interesting.

I wonder what anybody can say about the complexity of shogi, and how that relates to cracking/modeling shogi.

Seems to me the option of dropping a captured piece adds huge amounts of complexity - but I have no idea how much. Shogi's a really interesting game. Do you play Xiangqi, too? :)

Anyway, I don't completely agree with you about go stones not having a board-wide influence. Think ladders (i forgot the japanese term), and especially think some wide area crossing ladders. Also think influence. With relates to ladders, among other things.

Right - that's why I said a given stone doesn't *directly* influence the other side. It's more subtle.

And as to brute-force vs. knowledge, deep blue had an extensive lib of chess data (i.e. knowledge) to make use of. Nevertheless, brute-force seems to outperform knowledge (even human chess knowledge), so I wouldn't look down on it.

A couple of years ago John Watson wrote a pretty high-level book on chess strategy that essentially said all the rules we learned about chess are fine and dandy, but what really matters is straight, conrete, position-specific calculation. For human players. I don't think that approach can work, though, for any but the very best players in the world. It also affirms that I will never be one of those. :)

Anyway, this is getting long too. Sorry

No worries. I don't think we're imposing on anyone but ourselves. :-)

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems to me the option of dropping a captured piece adds huge amounts of complexity - but I have no idea how much.
duh. and the piece changes sides too ;-)

Do you play Xiangqi, too? :)
That wouldn't be also known as chinese chess, woudl it? in that case, yes :-D , although not frequently.

Right - that's why I said a given stone doesn't *directly* influence the other side. It's more subtle.
Hmm, yes, you did. However, in my opinion a ladder-breaker has just as *direct* an effect as an outright attempted-capture-move. The only thing is that the ladder-breaker often has another function too. Sort of forces you to choose ;-)
Which is probably the subtleness you refer too.

A couple of years ago John Watson wrote a pretty high-level book
don't know either him or the book, but straight, conrete position-specific calculation always works best, as long as you have total information. And you know what to compute. Brute-force is exactly that.

If you don't have total information, it doesn't work (well). At least in Go, having total information simplifies the qualitative heuristics to straight-forward counting, so you get a kind of trade-off between generating knowledge and computing what it means. In chess, with total information yu get a simplification of your evaluation too: you either catch the enemy king, or you don't. Same with shogi, etc.

(OK, maybe slightly simplified picture here. Break it apart if you like ;-)

Lacking total information, you have to use heuristics, and deal with probabilistic information. Obviously, your results are going to be ..ehrr.. different too ;-)

And yes, we seem to be talking to ourselves here.

Re:Do not pass "Go"

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you know there is a shogi for 41x41? (it might be 43x43, i don't remember precisely. HUGE,anyway).

I did not know that. Interesting.


check here:
http://trout.customer.netspace.net.au/

for many variants up to 25x25. I will try and find the reference to the huge shogi variant

Slashdot account

[fembots]

Last year I signed up a Slashdot account for my better half, what a mistake! We've been fighting for the first to open door, switch on the TV and whatnot ever since.

But seriously, how about a set of Mahjong, it's something different and provides endless hours of fun. They now come in travel size that you can bring along in trips.

And are there any ethnic-based board games that you can learn about other cultures (not Indians being shot at).

Re:Slashdot account

[kzinti]

I love you! You just gave me a great gift idea for my wife... she enjoys the Mahjong computer game, and I bet she would like getting a real set of Mahjong tiles. She'll probably still play the computer version most of the time, but there are times when you just want the tactile experience of using the real thing. Now I've just got to figure out where to get a good set.

Re:Slashdot account

[realdpk]

good set Mahjong tiles

A bowling ball?

[Anonymous Coward]

What, were they all out of number 3 hats?

Board games

[Anonymous Coward]

I liked Mr. Trucker personally. Used to play that all the time!

DOCTOR

[pUNX.h]

Who needs board games when you can play Doctor!

You sunk my Scrabble Ship!

[bigtallmofo]

Bart: B6! Homer: You sunk my Scrabble-ship! Lisa: This game makes no sense. Homer: Tell that to the good men that just lost their lives. SEMPER FI!

Trivial Pursuit

[teiresias]

Trivial Pursuit! Fun for all ages.

You must have at least three different flavors in your collection to be classified a geek.

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[jellomizer]

Unless you only know useful information?

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[rainman_bc]

I'm from Canada you insensitive clod! The American History category is crappy enough to make us take hours upon end to find one that's easy enough to answer :)

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[eln]

It used to be that you could buy one edition, then buy different card packs of other editions for cheaper than buying a whole game. My family used to have like 5 or 6 different card packs, and one board. Now, they don't seem to do that anymore, and 30 bucks a pop seems a little steep for different questions, and a bunch of pieces that are exact duplicates of the crap I already have (except with different pictures on the board).

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[Pxtl]

While the questions are excellent, the actual game in Trivial Pursuit is moronic. The board game is horribly chance-oriented "Oh, missed the pie. Missed it again. Missed it again."

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[Lev13than]

I'm from Canada you insensitive clod! The American History category is crappy enough to make us take hours upon end to find one that's easy enough to answer :)

Ironically, Trivial Pursuit is a Canadian invention. Chris Haney worked as a photo editor at the Montreal Gazette, and Scott Abbott was a sports journalist for The Canadian Press. A good history of the game can be found here

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[kallisti]

Trivial Pursuit! Fun for all ages.

Trivial Pursuit has been ruined. I played the Genus 6 edition a few months back and the game has been dumbed down considerably. If the question was on a president, the answer was Clinton. Every time. Geography has been replaced with People & Places and the entertainment questions often involved the likes of Marilyn Manson.

I won the game pretty easily by just thinking of then-current (late 90s) pop crap most appropriate. And I am NOT talking about the 90s edition, either. You can try a demo at www.trivialpursuit.com and see for yourself.

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[Dynedain]

I'm from Canada you insensitive clod! The American History category is crappy enough to make us take hours upon end to find one that's easy enough to answer :)

Most Americans would say the same thing.

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[hal2814]

We've started playing the older versions where we give the player is given the answer and has to come up with the question. That makes things more interesting for the questions we already know. For example if I gave "Warren Beatty", the correct answer would be something along the lines of "The Carly Simon song 'You're so Vain' is based on what Hollywood actor?"

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[zillahX]

Why is this modded funny? It's true!

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[shotfeel]

In other words, its one of those pesky games that combines skill and chance?

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[Minwee]

"Let's Flip A Coin To See Which One Of Us Hits The Other On The Head With A Hammer" also combines skill with chance, but that doesn't make it a very good game.

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[FriedTurkey]

I played the Genus 6 edition a few months back and the game has been dumbed down considerably.

Ever play Genus 1?? Talk about hard. Better be up to speed on 1930's movie stars.

If the question was on a president, the answer was Clinton.

For Genus 1-5 the answer was Nixon.

I have played most of the editions. I agree that the questions are getting easier but the people I play with seem to like the easier questions. Games can last forever when it is hard. The Pop Culture DVD edition is stupid easy but everybody wants to play it.

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[FriedTurkey]

While the questions are excellent, the actual game in Trivial Pursuit is moronic. The board game is horribly chance-oriented "Oh, missed the pie. Missed it again. Missed it again."

Even with no rolling dice element, the questions are still luck of the draw. Even if all the players were asked the same question, there is still the luck of the question picked because not everyone has the same knowledge. Every game involves a element of luck. Ken Jennings lost because he happened not to know one question, the final question.

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[Pxtl]

Yes, well, it just seems stupid that you can do incredibly well on the questions and still fail miserably due to the board. Plus, many newer round-robin games have inventions that keep the other players active while player X is doing his turn - in Trivial Pursuit, you just sit and watch, and this can often take a while if he is good at answering.

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[pthisis]

I'm from Canada you insensitive clod! The American History category is crappy enough to make us take hours upon end to find one that's easy enough to answer

Now imagine how hard it is if you were educated in the American public school system...

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but given the right players, at least games don't last long...

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[The One and Only]

It's funny BECAUSE it's true!

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[d.valued]

I would love to learn more about Canadian history.

American history is all about wars, and genocide, and dirty dealings in rooms full of substances the state of California finds to be dangerous to the health....

Thing is, though, Americans, in general, tend to think of themselves as "God's chosen people". This particular bias comes from when a bunch of tight-strung Calvinists from East Anglia missed the St Lawrence by several miles, instead landing on a forsaken rock they decided to call Plymouth, for some reason commemorating the land they left. As a result, there is a general attitude that the rest of the world can go f*** itself. (Why do you think Americans generally barely qualify as monoglots?)

At least Canada has a lower drinking age and available healthcare.

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[crimson30]

Get a copy of Genus II. It has a awfully high number of Canadian trivia questions.

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[iainl]

I've got four sets, yes.

However, the Original Trilogy Star Wars set was a monumental waste of money. I'm not exactly the biggest geek in the world, but anyone prepared to spend the kind of cash the nice "collectors edition" costs is going to know enough Star Wars to answer 90% of their questions without even thinking too hard.

We just use the nice pewter pieces and comedy R2 electronic die substitute with Genus questions.

Re:Trivial Pursuit

[Guppy06]

Would you like it better if was in the shape of a hexagon?

Apples to Apples

[TheAngryArmadillo]

If you want a game everyone can enjoy, pick up Apples to Apples. It's easy and a game only lasts 30 minutes or so. A perfect party game length if you ask me. Whenever we get together with friends that's the first game to come out.

Re:Apples to Apples

[way2slo]

Yes, a very good game. They have a few expansion packs too. The secret to this game is knowing if the judge will go for the most accurate or the most funny.

Re:Apples to Apples

[zx75]

Settlers of Catan! Quick to pick up, 30-45 minutes for a 4 player game (6 with the expansion tiles) great fun and addictive, no game is complete without loud good-natured badgering of your fellows and monty python quotes.

Works best after a case or two when the phrase "Pressing wood into sheep" takes on whole new meanings.

Re:Apples to Apples

[Anonymous Coward]

I personally prefer to refer to it as "squishing sheep"

Re:Apples to Apples

[PhotoJim]

Settlers of Catan is a great game. I'm surprised that more people haven't heard of it. It can be played well the first time you play it, but has a lot of complexity and strategy to it. It's definitely worth checking out. You will hate your friends after playing it, though, unless you win. :) But isn't that the point of gaming?

Re:Apples to Apples

[Anonymous Coward]

Excellent, fun game.
Quick synopsis:
- Each player has a handful (7?) of cards with words on them.
- The players take turns being "judge".
- The judge flips over a definition card (containing a word and several definitions of that word)
- The other (non-judge) players pick a card from their hand they think THE JUDGE will pick as the closest match for the word.

Of course, this means it's entirely about how people think - which makes it really interesting.
Often, you hand has nothing that would normally be related with the defined word... but, perhaps the judge has a sufficiently warped view of the world to agree with your chosen definition.

No Clue

Re:Apples to Apples

[pjt33]

Another game everyone can enjoy is Pitchcar. Flick counters round a racetrack.

Re:Apples to Apples

[Finkbug]

Catan is a good game, not a great game. Been years since I last played so appologies in advance but if I remember correctly there is at least one card or goal that sucker punches those new to it, something about a cross map roadway. Given the big draw of the game is easy-to-learn, not knowing about and thus being unable to block this move is a problem. Not a fatal flaw but still a flaw.

Re:Apples to Apples

[Anonymous Coward]

I've got some woolly wood that goes 'baaa'?

Re:Apples to Apples

[Zeriel]

Ah, college memories.

*drunken singing* "we built this city on sheep and..err...sheeep."

Re:Apples to Apples

[zx75]

Deeper strategy does not a flawed game make.

Longest road map-division is a very difficult thing to accomplish (especially with 4 players!) and an unreliable strategy at best. Yes it can sink someone new to the game, but 2 points for longest road is a very simple rule to learn and not one that I would consider as a barrier to entry. Yes it takes a little while for someone new to the game to become good at it, and develop targetted strategies, but that applies to any game and doesn't detract from the fun of playing :).

Besides, that is where maxing out the number of players is a bonus to introducing new people. There is enough luck involved in the game that a good strategy doesn't guarantee victory. Heck, in big games I've won with only 4 settlements (well, cities actually after upgrading). I built exactly 3 roads the entire game in addition to my starting 2.

Re:Apples to Apples

[hymie3]

Settlers of Catan! Quick to pick up, 30-45 minutes for a 4 player game...

How in the name of Sid Jackson do you manage a 30-45 minute game? I haven't been able to get a (human) 4 player game completed in under 80 minutes.

Re:Apples to Apples

[zx75]

I guess that means we have a mutual inability to comprehend. The longest single game of settlers I've ever played took slightly less than an hour, and that was when 3 people who had never played before (including me) were being introduced to the game with 1 experienced player doing the instruction. I could see it taking longer if 4 new people came to the game trying to figure it out for the first time, but for me its always been the perfect way to spend the hour when I have a spare period between classes and be able to get a snack at the same time.

Now, I make a disclaimer, technically I've had games of Settlers last significantly longer, however that was due to the fact that the Settlers game itself was only a secondary consideration. We spent much more time discussing other things and the game only served as background noise for the discussion. In those cases sometimes single turns took 10 minutes, and I discount those as anomalous because we really weren't playing the game.

Re:Apples to Apples

[hymie3]

I read an online interview with Klaus (cough-ahem) and when asked about the hour-plus length of his games, he laughed and stated that they're *really* only supposed to take as long as it says they are on the box. He added that if the player is taking too long to move, the other players in Germany begin to chant "Move or we shall hit you!"

How long *should* a turn in SoC take to complete? Maybe I'm just spoiled by the amount of time turn-based computer strategy games give me to think.

Re:Apples to Apples

[zx75]

Well, when we usually play most people consider and are ready with their options when their turn comes about, and its simply a matter of executing. Sometimes if a person gets a big windfall just before their turn it might take them a bit longer to sort new possibilities but generally a 'long' turn by one player is in the realm of 30 seconds or less. I have one friend who likes to dither though, and he usually starts getting evil looks if he takes a minute to do everything.

But more commonly you get a number of rolls that don't cause many resources to be picked up, so entire rounds around the table have gone buy with only perfunctory "trade sheep for grain?" queries that are usually snapped up quickly or refused euqally quickly. A quick round like that sometimes takes less than 20 seconds to complete. But I'd say the average ends up being 10-15 seconds for an individual turn as all it takes is to snatch your cards for the roll, drop a few down to building something and drop it on the map. Strategy is for the down-time while other people are doing there thing, and with settlers its usually straight-forward enough that short-term strategy can be done on the fly.

We also actively discourage dithering or contemplation when you have the dice in your hand because since other players cannot do anything, they can only trade with the current player, it means things get done in a hurry unless active bartering is taking place.

Re:Apples to Apples

[hymie3]

I guess I'm a dither-er. I'm going to try to play this Christmas break using sub-30 second turns. Thanks for the advice!

Any experience with Citadels?

Re:Apples to Apples

[jdavidb]

Thank you. I just purchased the game and the 5-6 player expansion for $48 on ebay (including shipping). This game looks very interesting and I know my family and my in-laws (all of whom love a good board game) are going to enjoy it this holiday season.

Thanks for introducing me to this very interesting game. I've been looking for something like this for years, actually.

Re:Apples to Apples

[zx75]

You're welcome, I hope you have as much fun as we've had :). Settler's has become almost an official passtime among the students at my university faculty. They've had to send for replacement cards & pieces on more than one occasion due to wear from use already. (This is an accomplishment, the pieces are wood, and the board is heavy-duty cardboard... and not an easy thing to wear out).

One of my friends went out and bought his own set so we could at least play regularily (about 4-5 games a week or so) because the faculty society's sign-out set was becoming impossible to get.

Adult Boardgames?

[Tackhead]

> Like a bowling ball with your name engraved upon it, these make great gifts for your significant other. Any other suggestions for good adult boardgames?

Twister.

But for the love of God, put away the engraved bowling ball before you start. (Trust me on this.)

Re:Adult Boardgames?

[Eccles]

...or strip twister, if by "adult games" you mean...

Re:Adult Boardgames?

[Doctor Memory]

I used to play this a lot in college, but I don't have enough room in my refrigerator for all that Jell-O anymore.

Or did you mean the kind you play with your clothes on?

Re:Adult Boardgames?

[Anonymous Coward]

Twister doesn't work well for me any more.
round 1) Right hand green (moaning sound as I lean over)
round 2) Left foot red (crack)
round 3) *thud*

Re:Adult Boardgames?

[gosand]

But for the love of God, put away the engraved bowling ball before you start. (Trust me on this.)

That would be the "goatse game". I think I'll pass.

For our wedding, my wife and I registered for, and received, Rock'em Sock'em Robots, Operation, Connect Four, Mastermind, and a few other classic games. They are still fun. We are planning on having a party where you have different game stations, and everyone visits various stations. If you win, you stay at that station (and do a shot). If you lose, you have to go to a different station. (and probably do a shot) Games are much more fun when there is drinking involved.

Re:Adult Boardgames?

[kzinti]

Twister

Yeah, but you have to supplement it with a bottle of orange juice, a bottle of vodka, and a bottle of baby oil. (Um... you don't drink the baby oil.)

Re:Adult Boardgames?

[slash_noodle]

Didn't the instructions to play Strip Twister come with a complete copy of the Karma Sutra?

Re:Adult Boardgames?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Games are much more fun when there is drinking involved."

You fail it. People who play real games which require thought actually use their brains, not destroy them while playing.

Re:Adult Boardgames?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are talking adult games, then Pass Out is a classic .

Re:Adult Boardgames?

[Anonymous Coward]

s/Karma/Kama/

Re:Adult Boardgames?

[hunterx11]

Destroying your brain before playing is stupid. Forcing your opponent to destroy his, however, can be rather amusing.

Re:Adult Boardgames?

[Anonymous Coward]

Isn't the Karma Sutra a guide on Karma Whoring on /.?

What! No Risk?

[tomhudson]

Risk isn't there? Heathen SOBs :-)

Re:What! No Risk?

[jellomizer]

Risk can be a very long game especially when you get people like myself even if I going to loose I will hold on to the last guy because who knows I might get lucky. A couple of times I did. My last little Guy held off an army of 80. After they saw that they gave up figuring that God was on my side. (that and it was late and they wanted to go to bed.)

Re:What! No Risk?

[tomhudson]

Risk can be a very long game ...

... which is why, when we play, we insist on people moving quickly. No 5-10 minutes to think of strategy - this is WAR!

We have one guy who continually holds us up - so I have a timer, and if he takes to long, I grab some of his men off the table as a penalty ...

Re:What! No Risk?

[the morgawr]

Depends, for awhile me and my friends played risk 3 nights a week. A game only took about 2-2.5 hrs. If you want a long game try Diplomacy or Republic of Rome (for those who think Diplomacy isn't hard-core enough...).

Re:What! No Risk?

[mjwills]

Risk? You need to play some good games. http://www.boardgamegeek.com

Re:What! No Risk?

[tomhudson]

This may sound strange, but NOT ONE of my friends is a geek :-) I'd have to say that a lot of them are complete illiterates when it comes to computers - and I'll bet they'd agree.

Re:What! No Risk?

[RedWizzard]

This may sound strange, but NOT ONE of my friends is a geek :-) I'd have to say that a lot of them are complete illiterates when it comes to computers - and I'll bet they'd agree.

Boardgamegeek.com has nothing to do with computers. They're not using "geek" to mean "computer geek" as you seem to be assuming. It's for people who have a similar passion for boardgames. It covers all sorts of boardgames, but the highest rating are great general strategy games for adults. Which is why Risk doesn't feature in their top 100. I recommend you try some of the top 10 and then see if you still think Risk is the pinnacle of board game design.

Re:What! No Risk?

[tomhudson]

I don't think it's "the pinnacle" of board game design. I just think it's accessible enough that I can sit down with people and have a good time.

It's not threatening (like chess is to a lot of people). We usually end up ganing up on whoever gets too strong, and someone always starts "goofing", just attacking at random for the hell of it ... it's a social thing.

Me, I'm just a SimCity fan.

Re:What! No Risk?

[RedWizzard]

I don't think it's "the pinnacle" of board game design. I just think it's accessible enough that I can sit down with people and have a good time.

It's not threatening (like chess is to a lot of people). We usually end up ganing up on whoever gets too strong, and someone always starts "goofing", just attacking at random for the hell of it ... it's a social thing.

Still I think you should broaden your boardgame horizons a bit. You won't regret it. Try Settlers of Catan, it seems to be most people's introduction to modern boardgames, and it's really been the catalyst to boardgames being seen as mainstream adult entertainment again. Try Puerto Rico if you want subtle strategy, it's consistently rated one of (if not the) best modern boardgame available. Or if you prefer a bit more direct confrontation, try El Grande or Evo. Both of these have a bit more luck than Puerto Rico, but neither of them are as unbalanced or random as Risk. Evo's pretty good for a laugh. If you want more humor, Cheap Ass Games does a good line - Kill Doctor Lucky, Gimme the Brain, Bitin' Off Hedz, etc. If you want a game with virtually no direct player interaction (but plenty of strategy) try Princes of Florence.

Re:What! No Risk?

[tomhudson]

Okay, I'll look at it again when I have some spare time (probably at work when I'm not downloading pr0n or posting to the dot or hacking into gubbermint servers or all those other things us geeks are notorious for doing when we want to have a good time :-)

Re:What! No Risk?

[Nataku564]

Try Risk 2210 or Risk Godstorm then, two new variants on the classic Risk game. There are turn limits, and various extra rules that add a whole new level of strategy and fun to the game.

Re:What! No Risk?

[RedWizzard]

You can play a lot of those games online at BrettspielWelt, though I'm not sure how many have the complete rules available.

Re:What! No Risk?

[d.valued]

Granted, this may qualify as shameless pimping for Avalon Hill -} Wizards of the Coast -} Hasbro, but the new Risk games they've released are great.

Risk 2210: You can conquer the moon and take over underwater cities. Parts of the world are completely inaccessible due to nuclear holocost (when the right parts of Oz or SouthAm are gone, it's twisted). You have space stations, which send dudes to the moon and let you defend on a D8; you have commanders, which have specialties and d8's at their disposal. You have cards, which do cool and nifty things. Yes, parts of the moon and ocean are continents with appropriate bonuses.

Risk Godstorm: It's the European mythic past (sorry Asia, Africa, Americas.) With a map of the world which resembles medieval orientation and style, yet has the functional similarity to the classic Risk board, you try to conquer the ancient world. Setup is recommended to be random; adds extra skill. Four areas are blighted with plague; plague kills half the troops and banishes gods, since the people lose faith. Gods lead troops in battle, have special abilities. Gods fight other gods. The dead (mostly) go to the Underworld, where they can keep fighting and, possibly, return to the World of the Living. There are cards, which are expensive or require a labor be competed, like conquering three territories or rolling trips. Magical artifacts can f*** things up. Atlantis can be sunk. Sound good?

Both games are 5 turns long (usually), turn order is by bidding energy (2210) or faith (Godstorm).

Re:What! No Risk?

[pjt33]

Risk is mentioned. However, it's explicitly about good new games.

Re:What! No Risk?

[iainl]

Both of those sound really rather interesting - I'll have to give them a go.

We've got the Lord Of The Rings Risk (and expansion set). That is also really good, as the Fellowship moves the Ring across the board, acting like a time limit with a random element (the Ring only moves on some die throws). Also, many of the borders between territories are mountains (necessary because Middle Earth is a single continent), but there are special cards you can play that can occasionally give you passage across them. You've got the Heroes thing from Godstorm, and fortresses too.

Re:What! No Risk?

[tomhudson]

It wasn't mentioned in the top 100 list that was in the link ...

Re:What! No Risk?

[mjwills]

English rules can be found at http://www.brettspielwelt.info/rules/

Ob. Simpsons Quote

[Zorilla]

Bart: B6!
Homer: You sunk my Scrabble-ship!
Lisa: This game makes no sense.
Homer: Tell that to the good men that just lost their lives.

Re:Ob. Simpsons Quote

[Anonymous Coward]

About your sig: I think someone has already pointed this out already, but I thought I'd bring it up again, since you still have updated it: He said "f*cking" not "Vulcan"

Re:Ob. Simpsons Quote

[kzinti]

I was reminded of the classic Simpsons episode referred to by the original poster:

Bowler: Your fingers are so slender, so feminine. They're far too tapered for the ball you are using. You need something lighter, more delicate. Here, use my ball.
Marge: No, no thank you Mister... [looking at his bowling ball] Brunswick.

(For those who don't bowl, "Brunswick" is the manufacturer of the bowling ball.)

Re:Ob. Simpsons Quote

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, hello again!

Heroscape

[Shadow Wrought]

Missing from the list, but a really fun game, is Heroscape It is a good blend of luck and strategy and can be played by various levels of expertise. I played it with the kids and they loved it. They actually turned OFF Halo 2 to play!

Re:Heroscape

[brogen]

I concur, Heroscape is an excellent game. A good primer for children interested in fantasy wargaming, a decent value and quite a bit of fun for adults.

Re:Heroscape

[kin_korn_karn]

that looks great. but what part of the Hasbro conglomerate is responsible for it? I can't find it just by browsing the site?

Re:Heroscape

[Shadow Wrought]

Our friends actually got two sets, so they were creating absolutely huge landscapes with both players taing a complete army from the box. Very, very fun! 'Specially the Dinosaur chomping;-)

Re:Heroscape

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's another recommendation for Heroscape. Awesome game.

Last week we played a massive game with about 8 people, 2 sets of landscape tiles, all the basic units, and many fan-created units using D&D and Star Wars miniatures. It's all fun until your stormtroopers get eaten by a dinosaur!

Re:Heroscape

[brogen]

Yeah, I've got 7 sets...but then I'm a very large geek.

suggestion

[bersl2]

Any other suggestions for good adult boardgames?

Twister? (with some modifications, of course)

Settlers of Catan!

[kisielk]

Discovered this one over the summer and played with some friends online. Would love an actual board game version. Great strategy game, especially since you're forced to barter with other players to succeed, there's lots of strategy involved.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/viewitem.php3?gameid= 13

Re:Settlers of Catan!

[Flamesplash]

You know, for some reasion I really just don't like Settlers. Love carcassone, Puerto Rico, Torres but can't stand that one. I really don't know why either.

Check out my current latest JE for a good online site for playing board games.

Re:Settlers of Catan!

[Keepiru]

The perfect gift for the Settlers Ubergeek
3D Settlers Board

Re:Settlers of Catan!

[Anonymous Coward]

I knew Catan would pop up in this thread. This German Game is so well balanced between probability, bartering, and good old fashioned down'n'dirty strategy that it is nearly impossible to get a strong advantage from the beginning. Excellent design: when you play for the first time, there comes a point where you sit back, smirk and think "holy shit".

Here's the company site:

http://www.mayfairgames.com/mfg-shop/0480-0499/q ps /0483.html

You can also buy it here:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00001ZT4 D/ 104-1779319-6863144

Re:Settlers of Catan!

[Senobyzal]

Settlers is a great game; I've converted most of our circle of friends to it and we've played about 10 matches total (most with the 5-6 player expansion). Almost all of the games have been balanced and tight until the very end.

There's a java version with AI bots at http://settlers.cs.northwestern.edu/. Although sometimes the servers get clogged and you cannot get on, there's also a mirror linked at that site.

Re:Settlers of Catan!

[Anonymous Coward]

One of my favorites was Full Metal Planet.

Re:Settlers of Catan!

[iabervon]

If you get a physical copy, try to get a German edition. The tiles in the American edition are less brightly colored, less distinctive, and don't look as much like the things they produce. Of course, the rules and cards are in German, but you already know how to play, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Re:Settlers of Catan!

[Anonymous Coward]

Definitely recommend using the Cities and Knights expansion.

The same guy, Klaus Tuber also created a game called Starfarers, which is quite good.

Re:Settlers of Catan!

[saladyears]

If you like playing Catan, try playing it online at http://www.settlers3d.net/. It's got a worldwide following with over 1400 active players from every continent (except Antarctica), an automated ELO ranking system and a very active and friendly community.

Re:Settlers of Catan!

[RedWizzard]

If you enjoy Settlers you should try Puerto Rico. It's a fantasic game, often considered the best boardgame produced in the last few years. It has very little luck (much less than Settlers) and plenty of subtle strategy. Other good games are Princes of Florence and El Grande.

Re:Settlers of Catan!

[__aahrlq8808]

Yes, this is a great game (and another former German Game of the Year). Introduced to it two years ago through a friend and it has been a staple ever since. Do try the Seafarers and Cities & Knights expansions--they're very much worth it. Though we do have fun with Caracassone, El Grande and others, this is the one we return to almost every week.

Re:Settlers of Catan!

[xenocide2]

no wonder i cant fucking play today. thanks a million, pal =P

Re:Settlers of Catan!

[91degrees]

A board game fan that doesn't like settlers!? I had no idea such a beast could exist.

I bet you have a pet unicorn as well;)

wtf

[Anonymous Coward]

How could they not mention Settlers of Catan? Or Tongiaki? Bah, this article sucks.

Re:wtf

[Pxtl]

Or Carcasonne, or Tikal, or any other clever European historical strategy games set in an esoteric city?

oh, I stand corrected, they have a Carcasonne game.

Alternately, while very few of them are suitable as a gift, CheapAss games still seems to eclipse the entire creative output of the rest of the boardgame/cardgame industry in North America at a fraction of the price.

Still, too bad all my faves are discontinued, like WotC's Robo Rally or CheapAss's Starbase Jeff.

Re:wtf

[Anonymous Coward]

Tongiaki IS there...YOU FAIL IT!

Re:wtf

[trisight]

I live in North America.. in the southern states in fact .. and I LOVE Catan.. I haven't tried the other games you've mentioned.. but if they are half as fun as Catan I would love to try them. We play mostly Settlers of Catan and Civ where I go to play board games. Another fun one is Zombies, but mostly for it's mindless fun :-)

Re:wtf

[Pxtl]

Oh, I wasn't saying that games available in the states are bad - I even see Catan in common toy stores these days - I was just saying that Cheapass is the best North American company for games. Catan is European.

Re:wtf

[Txiasaeia]

"oh, I stand corrected, they have a Carcasonne game."

Carcassonne *castle*? If I'm not mistaken isn't that an expansion? Imagine the look on poor Bobby's face when he realises that he can't play the board game he's just been given...

Carcassonne: Hunters and Gatherers is far superior to the original game, on the other hand. Extremely balanced and a lot less confusing than Carcassonne (balance sucks) + castle + rivers + traders + king &c &c.

Re:wtf

[Drey]

Robo Rally is, according to rumor, being reissued in Spring 2005 as an Avalon Hill game.

http://www.gamingreport.com/article.php?sid=1426 1

Re:wtf

[trisight]

Yah.. no doubt.. I was saying that Catan kicks ass and was asking for more good game titles that are fun as that one :-D

Re:wtf

[chialea]

If I remember correctly, The Castle is a 2-player standalone game in the Carcasonne family, designed by Renier Kniza.

Carcasonne + expansion is good and non-confusing. The original set isn't as well balanced, I agree.

Lea

Re:wtf

[chialea]

You're in for a world of fun. Go check out www.boardgamegeek.com, where you can find reviews and lists of games. When I found it, I was like a kid in a candy store. My game collection is a lot more fun now.

A few "must have" reccomendations to get you started, based on what you've said... I'd say Bohnanza to play with people who don't play games much (this one goes over well with women, especially), El Grande, and a Kniza game such as Samurai. I bet you'll love all of those, and there are tons of other fun ones, like San Juan, Through the Desert, Lord of the Rings (the cooperate Kniza version), Tigris&Euphrates, Lost Cities, Queen's Necklace (this one is MUCH better than the description would make you think, and you can play online for free. that's what got me to buy it.)

Lea

Re:wtf

[Anonymous Coward]

> Tongiaki IS there...YOU FAIL IT!

It was NOT there in the original post, which read:

The Morning News has come out with a nice guide to good gift boardgames. Like a bowling ball with your name engraved upon it, these make great gifts for your significant other. Any other suggestions for good adult boardgames?

And had only ONE link. And that link was to the article I was talking about.

Then they changed it so that it now links to two different sites.

So, in conclusion, you're an idiot.

Re:wtf

[Warlock48]

Carcassonne Castle is a 2-player-only game, it's self-contained (it's not an extension and there's no extensions for it).

It's similar to Carcassone, except you play inside city walls, you score paths (1), houses (1) and keeps (2) and at the end, markets (3) and the biggest empty space for the player with the biggest house. The most interesting element is the score board, where some special tiles are placed at predefined spaces. So sometimes you want to score less than you could, so that you get one of those special tiles.

I like it a lot, the special tiles give it the strategy that is missing in a 2-player H&G.

Hunters and Gatherers is my next choice for 3 to 5 players. Never even played the original one, because I read that H&G was better anyway :-)

I played Ark of the Covenant once, didn't find it as good as H&G, but it's probably the right choice for X fanatics. :-)

simple but fun

[c01100011]

http://uk.abalonegames.com/ abalone is one of my favorite games.

Trivial Pursuit

[Aggrajag]

Would be nice except the questions get pretty old after only a couple of times of playing.

Betrayal at House on the Hill

[StupidEngineer]

My suggestion is Betrayal at House on the Hill from WotC. My friends went to GenCon in Anaheim last weekend and picked up the last copy they had. (It was selling like hot cakes). I can see why. The board changes every game giving players get that haunted house feeling. But the coolest part is that the game objectives aren't revealed until midway through the game (about 50 different game objectives, all unknown) when one of the players becomes the 'traitor' and plays against everyone else. It's fun.

Re:Betrayal at House on the Hill

[d.valued]

Did you come by the WotC booth in the gaming area to do any CCG stuff, by any chance?

Lord of the Rings

[th1ckasabr1ck]

The Lord of the Rings board game that came out a while back was fairly decent. I played it with four players and it was very fun. Everyone plays as one of five Hobbits, and your goal (of course) is to throw the ring into Mt. Doom. It's a cooperative game that is actually fun. You all have to work together and actually play as a team, often giving up some of your valuable swag for the good of the team. There is a secondary board which shows how close Sauron is to you. When certain things happen in the game he moves a bit closer. If he touches you it's lights out.

Graphically, the game is gorgeous. The boards, cards, etc. are all extremely well done.

Re:Lord of the Rings

[chialea]

I have to agree, it's a very good game. Then again, I'm a real fan of Kniza's games (the designer). Like most of his games, I found this one to have a small number of rules which seem rather strange when you're reading them, but which make perfect sense when you start to play.

Other Kniza games I'd reccomend:
* Through the Desert (think multiplayer Go, but this may be quite hard to find, as I don't believe it's been reprinted yet)
* Samurai
* Schotten Totten/Battle Line (two player card games, and quite portable. I'm not sure if they're currently in print, but they're easy to make with two decks of cards)
* Tigris & Euphrates

Some other good games which would work well as gifts:
* Lost Cities (2 player card game, simple but addictive)
* Guillotine (multiplayer card game where you get to collect the heads of French nobility. funny and silly, even my mother likes it)
* Bohnanza (great card game I've found works well with non-gamers. being cooperative is good strategey, and the cards are cute)
* Warhamster rally (hamsters!)
* San Juan (reasonably simple and quite fun)
* El Grande (this is more complex, but easy to learn and play)

This is just a short list based on what I have in front of me. If I were looking for gifts for people who don't play games regularly, I'd have to look at www.boardgamegeek.com for ratings, and start by looking at Bohnanza and Lost Cities. If you want a party game, try Apples to Apples.

Lea

Re:Lord of the Rings

[centauri]

Through the Desert is available for play online at www.ludagora.net, along with several other fun games.

Re:Lord of the Rings

[wilper]

There is another game based on the books with equally beautiful components. 'War of the Ring', it is for two players (can be tweaked for four players) and takes the focus of the game is shifted from the fellowship to the political and military actions of the free peoples versus Sauron and his allies. A bit on the pricy side, but the board is the biggest I have ever seen in a game, and there are lots of minis to represent armies and heroes.

Re:Lord of the Rings

[Marc_Hawke]

I played that game shortly after it was released. I was very surprised as how well it turned out. I figured it was going to be just another poor movie conversion, but it was actually fun. I never played it again..maybe I should. :)

Re:Lord of the Rings

[ChaosDiscord]

The Lord of the Rings board game is a blast. The Sauron tracking board is great: as the hobbit's morale falls (because they fail challenges or are tempted by the ring), they move toward Sauron. As Sauron gains power he moves toward the hobbits. You'll typically have to sacrifice at least a few hobbits to Sauron to win. The game is very cooperation oriented; Sauran is controlled by the board itself while the players are the hobbits. Typically you'll have players/hobbits sacrifice themselves for the good of the group. "I don't think I can make it. Here, I'll let you take the last token of Hope. Even though it will doom me, hopefully the rest of you can make it." Once you're beating the game regularlly you can start playing to maximize score or increase the difficultly (giving Sauran an edge). It's always exciting since you never know if bad luck will doom the party. On the down side, after a dozen or so games we pretty much understand the strategy. It's still fun, but the only surprises are from the order of the deck, not the big picture.

Re:Lord of the Rings

[The G Man]

Truly a fun game. There are 2 expansions to it, Friends and Foes (which adds Bree and Isengard, along with minions you have to fight, and a new win/loss condition involving them) and Sauron, which gives the role of Sauron to a player, and makes the game far more difficult, seeing as you're playing against intelligence instead of randomness. I give them both a big thumbs up.

Re:Lord of the Rings

[Bob Uhl]

Guillotine (multiplayer card game where you get to collect the heads of French nobility. funny and silly, even my mother likes it)

What's the sequel? Cambodia, a game in which you collect the eyeglasses of intellectuals? Buchenwald, a game in which you collect bars of soap made from various classes of prisoner? The French Revolution was a bloodbath, it was mass insanity, it was mass murder. It's not something to laugh at, but rather to cry over.

Re:Lord of the Rings

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought it was only 17 years until something was funny?

Mensa Recommended games . . .

[93,000]

Past winners of the Mensa Select seal can be browsed by year here. Have some fun while exercising your brain.

Previous winners include Taboo and Magic-The Gathering.

Re:Mensa Recommended games . . .

[spacepimp]

mensa a group that exists to fill the self indulgence of moderately intelligent people to each other. let me use them as my guide.

Re:Mensa Recommended games . . .

[amuro98]

Magic-The Gathering?

Ok, sure, it's the first CCG, and slightly amusing for a bit, but come on... Even the Jr. High kids have moved onto something different now. And since it is a CCG, the richest player tends to have a huge advantage.

MTG - how 1992...

Re:Mensa Recommended games . . .

[MoggyMania]

Your sexist show of intellectual inadequacy aside, the fact is that Mensa has traditionally been heavily male-dominated.

(Don't even bother leaping to conclusions on what that implies unless you have a solid academic knowledge of historical sociology, either -- you'll just come off looking like an ignorant ass.)

Re:Mensa Recommended games . . .

[Fjornir]

the richest player tends to have a huge advantage.

That's why we play a covenant game: we can each spend $25/month on boosters and starters from sets that are in print only. We're only allowed to trade inside the group. Keeps the field level...

Re:Mensa Recommended games . . .

[ArsonSmith]

hahaha you are a "Mensa"

Hint, try looking up the word Mensa in a spanish-english dictionary.

Re:Mensa Recommended games . . .

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm guessing it no longer means "table" in Spanish then?

It is taken from the Latin, so differences would be expected...

Re:Mensa Recommended games . . .

[Anonymous Coward]

Just checked - Mensa uses "Mesa" instead in Spanish countries - which of course means "table" just as mensa does in latin.

Interesting to learn about mensa/menso though :)

Balderdash

[willith]

Balderdash. Balderdash is perhaps the greatest board game ever created. It's provided more hilarity and riot to my friends and I than anything else I've ever encountered.

Without Balderdash, I never would have known that vagitis means "what my wife is going to do to me when I get home" and that a shittah is "a ghetto toilet".

Re:Balderdash

[Jucius Maximus]

"Balderdash. Balderdash is perhaps the greatest board game ever created. It's provided more hilarity and riot to my friends and I than anything else I've ever encountered."

I've gotta agree with this one. I've found that it needs at least 6 people to be fun, but some of my happiest family moments have been around the balderdash board. (We usually play it with extended family visiting, thus giving us a goodly number of players.)

Re:Balderdash

[Anonymous Coward]

Our words from that are :

maffic - meaning much traffic.

and fliting , which in reality is a swearing game , but to us is 'a plane, mon' [/jamaican accent]

Re:Balderdash

[Deideldorfer]

This is a great game if everyone playing is somewhat creative and has about the same intelligence.

You can run into trouble if you're playing with people not quite as smart as you though.

Re:Balderdash

[pjt33]

It's called Absolute Balderdash: I won a game earlier today. I think I slightly prefer Articulate, but Balderdash is certainly good.

"Diplomacy" from Avalon-Hill is a must-have

[Boone^]

It's like Risk, but targeted for adults and mature teenagers. You still vie for control of Europe, but there's no dice, you have to sign secret (or not so secret) pacts with your opponents, and there's no battles. Moving into an unoccupied territory makes it yours, but if the territory has a supply depot you could increase your armies (and decrease the armies of the opponent who was just on that square). During the moving phase if 2 armies attempt to occupy the same land they bounce. I could go on and on. Oh, and reserve 4-5 hours to complete a game.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q= diplomacy+board+game&btnG=Search

Re:"Diplomacy" from Avalon-Hill is a must-have

[kscguru]

4-5 hours? My dorm's been playing the past four WEEKS!!!

And the Evil Turkish Empire is about to learn what happens when he crosses both Russia and Austria every turn for two game years... we finally got him flanked!

Re:"Diplomacy" from Avalon-Hill is a must-have

[finnw]

Last game I played lasted more like 4-5 months!

Re:"Diplomacy" from Avalon-Hill is a must-have

[kallisti]

Diplomacy requires at least 5 players to really work, though. With its large player requirement and long playtime is it quite difficult to actually get a game finished. Civilization (the board game) has a similar problem. Still, it is one of the best games ever.

Re:"Diplomacy" from Avalon-Hill is a must-have

[bskin]

You can play diplomacy online, which makes the player requirement a lot easier. There are public servers available for playing diplomacy...although I can't remember more information, and I'm too lazy to google it. It's a lot easier to backstab people online, too. It's all part of the game.

Re:"Diplomacy" from Avalon-Hill is a must-have

[mmdog]

I started playing Diplomacy in high school and continued for about 12 years. It really was one of my favorite games of all time. There are now a number of variations on the original you can play based on stuff like Star Wars or Middle Earth, but they are all still basically the same game.

My last game of diplomacy was played via email a little under 6 years ago. We kept a map on www and updated it each turn, one turn a week.

Six months into the game the guy hosting it all quit, and I now have two former friends whom I refuse to have any contact with whatsoever.

Re:"Diplomacy" from Avalon-Hill is a must-have

[Finkbug]

"you have to sign secret"

SIGN? oh dear, a novice.

Last I knew Diplomacy had more known variants than any other boardgame. Also, Kissinger's favorite game. Realpolitik, big shock eh?

Go

[St. Arbirix]

I strongly suggest making a Go board. Take a piece of wood 20' by 20' and draw 19x19 lines on it. Add whatever personalizing touched you want to it and lacquer the sucker. I did this in a weekend and the board is absolutely wonderful.

Then go to Wal-Mart or some other bargain store and get in 200 of each color glass drops. They make great stones until you can afford a real set. Plastic stones are available online for $20 or so. Real shell Go stones will reach into the $200 range.

Google, of course, has more information including some designs for round Go boards and hex based boards.

Re:Go

[Imagix]

A 20 foot by 20 foot board?!? Egad... are you plaing with real humans instead of stones?

Re:Go

[Deideldorfer]

I don't think a 20' x 20' game board would fit in any room of my house. Maybe we should play it in the garage?!

Re:Go

[Sabaki]

Plastic stones are available online for $20 or so. Real shell Go stones will reach into the $200 range.

If you buy plastic stones for $20, you're getting ripped off. You can get glass stones (the most common variety) for under $20 online. Prices vary by thickness. By "real" stones, I think you mean slate and shell, which are the traditional materials in Japan. I've gotten three sets of slate and shell stones for under $150, although it is possible to spend nearly a thousand dollars on a really nice set of stones.

Check out the links at the American Go Association for a list of distributors.

(Prices in US dollars)

Re:Go

[St. Arbirix]

Yeah, oops on the 20' by 20' thing. 20" by 20" or whatever size you want to make it.

Basically, by measuring out the wood to be 20 by 20 of some unit you can have a 1 unit border around a board that has 1 unit of space between lines. My baord was actually made to be 21" by 21" with 1.5" borders. Really good wood is nice and cheap in these sizes too. My next project will be inlays.

Re:Go

[Anonymous Coward]

Plastic stones are available online for $20 or so. Real shell Go stones will reach into the $200 range.

Where'd you get this information?

I've been playing for years, and I've never played with anything except glass stones. Every player I know and every club I've been to has glass stones. Almost as nice as shell/slate, but far cheaper.

So which of these outfits kicks-back to you, Sims?

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean, let's face it...everything you post here is some kind of money-grubbing scam for the Michael Sims Foundation. Roland, Engadget...just the tip of the sewageberg.

Settlers of Catan

[BobBoyken]

...continues to satisfy. Even after several years, the original remains the best. I have the 5/6 player expansion and the gameplay is good, but the original version, played with exactly four people provides the most consistently fun and even gameplay of any game I have ever played. I like the fact that we can complete a game in an hour or so, but my favorite "feature" is that the games are almost always extremely close, so everyone feels like they have a chance to win.

Re:Settlers of Catan

[TheTomcat]

We play a "fast game" variant that gets games down to 30mins, or so, when we're in a hurry.

When rolling, resources are acquired for each number showing.
For example, if a player rolls a 2 and a 6, as normal, the resources marked "8" are picked up by their holders. Additionally, though, anyone on a "2" resource gets to pick up, same for a "6". Sevens still are no-pick-up.

Goes really fast, sometimes, and is a fun alternative to a full game.

Yes, obviously, this favors low numbers, but this is taken into account before placing the first settlement (before the game begins).

Sometimes, it's possible to pick up 6-10 cards in one turn.

Makes end-of-game and thief strategies quite different as well (a game can swing 3-4 points per round, in some circumstances).

S

Re:Settlers of Catan

[rjforster]

The variant we sometimes play is to roll one red die with the two white dice[1]. The roller must take the red die but can choose which of the two white dice to take. Makes for some subtle variations on initial placements, you want to be everybody's neighbour so they choose the numbers you pick up on also.

[1] You'll know why I put those colours if you've played the Cities and Knights expansion.

May not be intellectual but fun regardless

[linzeal]

I live in a house with 2 other college juniors and we are constantly entertaining with a fully stocked mame unit and board games but one still stands out as a way to get people to "loosen up". Twister, and before you laugh I would estimate that at least half the time when we bring it out someone gets laid in the house.

Re:May not be intellectual but fun regardless

[identity0]

Heathen! Everyone knows Strip Scrabble is the best way to get laid!

"I swear, Yjuimy is a real word! Now take your top off!"

Re:May not be intellectual but fun regardless

[Fjornir]

Even better than Twister: Twister on ECSTASY!

Extensive list

[gopher_hunt]

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/rankbrowse.php3?ranki ng=45#45

Pretty much lists everything you won't find at a local wal-mart.

My card game of the year...

[Alkaiser]

Spycraft CCG. First CCG I've ever gotten into enough to build a deck that is semi-feared. There's even an agent for the hacker faction, Banshee Net, named Slashdot.

Perfect Game!

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Easy to learn, with rules that can be explained in less than five minutes
2. Entertaining, so committed to the fun factor that even the guy who comes in dead last has a great time playing
3. Quick, lacking downtime and requiring no more than an hour to complete.

There's only one game I know that fits all three of those criteria.

Diplomacy!

cheapass games

[johnjay]

None of the games mentioned are from the eponymous Cheap Ass Games company. I just found out about this company a few weeks ago, when I was looking for cheap ass Christmas presents. I can't vouch for their products but they seem like a good deal for 2 reasons.
a) The games sound like fun. Sure, who's going to advertise their games as totally boring and stupid? No one. But, Kill Doctor Lucky and Deadwood to name two I remember, have funny concepts and sound interesting to play.
b) They are CHEAP. And, seeing as to how most board games I've owned have been played about 3 times, max, the money spent seems much closer to the value derived than the $50 it costs for a lavishly wood-crafted board game.

Again, I don't know much about the product so don't come crying to me if they suck, but I'm probably going to risk a few bucks on them this year.

Re:cheapass games

[rilister]

I missed your comment - I'm a huge fan of Cheapass games - they got the attitude and the sense of fun down. Kill Doctor Lucky is pretty good - a spin on Clue where you have to commit the murder rather than solve it - I put some other recommendations in my comment below.

at like, $4 a pop, you can afford to get some duds too, not that I've found any.

Re:cheapass games

[bjorn74]

I have both Deadwood and Kill Doctor Lucky. I even have house rules for Deadwood that add some excitement for the role playing crowd. Everyone has to play the part they are on when someone joins the scene. KDL isn't too complicated, but it takes some time to figure ways to get the bugger locked up tight to get him.

Re:cheapass games

[chialea]

I've played a good number of cheapass games. They're fun, but I've gotten the most use out of them in the interval between ordering food and recieving it at restaurants.

I'd reccomend "Give me the brain". Note that is it mandatory, when bidding for the brain (there is only one brain at Frieday's, Fast Food Restaurant of the Dammed, to pass around between all of the zombies) to read the card out loud in an appropriate voice.

"Gibe me da bwain! My tung is stuck in the fleeza!"

(give me the brain! my tounge is stuck in the freezer!)

Lea

Re:Cheapass Games

[Anonymous Coward]

A.K.A. Dumbass games...

they are dirt cheap, and some are mildly cute in concept..

the real problem with them is that they almost universally have almost ZERO replay value - ie they are sort of amusing to play the first time, and then
dreadfully dull after that ..

not much boardgame value even at the low prices..

Re:cheapass games

[Desert Raven]

Kill Dr Lucky is definitely one of the better ones. We've played it a few times and had a blast.

"Bitin off hedz" is pretty funny, but the gameplay wasn't quite as good. But hey, any game where you play a dinosaur who's sole goal is to race other dinosaurs to see who can throw themselves into an active volcano first has got to have some amusement value.

Re:cheapass games

[Buran]

Give me the brain -- I can hear the ocean.

Re:cheapass games

[Anonymous Coward]

Save Dr. Lucky is pretty funny, too. You're trying to make sure that he doesn't die aboard a sinking ship. The premise is that you want to murder him yourself so a natural death doesn't satisfy you.

Re:cheapass games

[__aahrlq8808]

I've played a number of Cheapass games and Kill Doctor Lucky takes the cake for funniest and most fun to play. I bought this for my sister last year for Christmas and she loved it, even when I can't get her to touch any other sort of game, board or computer. P.S. You'll love this game so much that you'll be tempted to buy the sequel, Save Doctor Lucky. Don't, but try some other Cheapass offerings instead. This isn't half as fun as the original.

Re:cheapass games

[dvdeug]

Those that I've played have been pretty good. Give Me the Brain is a nice cute game; I doubt anyone would play it regularly, like some people play spades or euchre, but it's good for a few plays. Agora is an interesting strategy game; it probably has more replay value that Give Me the Brain, but it doesn't have the party value of playing fast-food worker zombies who need the brain to finish their shifts.

I love One False Step for Man... It's a 3-4 hour long board game that takes a lot of strategy, so I'd play it with the same people I'd play Rail Baron (another game I recommend, but it's out of print) or Axis and Allies with. It's biggest problem is that it's a Cheap Ass game; while coming up with a six-sided die for Give Me the Brain or a dozen counters for Agora isn't a problem, One False Step takes literally a hundred counters, in at least as many distinct varieties as you have players. Those of us roleplayers dragged out the mondo bags of dice and used different types of dice, or a Risk set would probably have enough counters, but you've got to be prepared before the game. The board is somewhat random, which keeps variety but makes it feel a little generic. Names like "Desperado City" just doesn't have the feel that using real cities names does. All in all, a great strategy game, but be prepared for a lengthy strategy game and get out the counters to start with.

seeing as to how most board games I've owned have been played about 3 times, max,

Yeah. What's worse, for games that have trivia cards, they start to lose their fun once you get familar with them. I've played Cranium enough times that I know what many of the cards are. (Again, Cranium; a decent game, if you like party games and are willing to spend $50 on a game where you learn a lot of the cards after playing it 3 or 4 times. Me, I prefer to go head to head in a nice multiplayer strategy game where it's strategy, tactics and a little bit of luck.)

Poker Chips!

[PornMaster]

I'm going to be buying 11.5g poker chips for some people who fancy themselves afficianados and watch World Poker Tour and the World Series of Poker.

Fluxx

[Shadow Wrought]

Another great game is Fluxx. If you have not heard about it, its a card game in which the rules are constantly changing. I've played rounds that last close to an hour, and some that lasted less than two minutes.

In the latter category was in which the player who won, wasn't even there! I played a card which basically caused everyone to play all the cards in their hand. One of the guys got up to answer the phone right before it became his turn. We played for him (since he had to play everything anyway;-) and the *&$*#&*&#*($&%**#&$^%*@&$ won.

Re:Fluxx

[chialea]

Eh, Fluxx isn't bad, but there are better games out there, especially since they made it so symmetric, so there's virtually no strategey involved.

Looney Labs also makes a game called Chrononaughts, where you have to go back in time, change events, and patch the resulting paradoxes so that you achieve your goals (some of which are randomly assigned and secret). It takes a bit of space to spread out, but how can you beat shooting Hitler, unkilling him, and then killing him again?

Lea

Re:Fluxx

[Shadow Wrought]

I saw that on their site and it certainly looked interesting. Ice House also looked interesting, but the description seemed a tad disjointed. Have you played that one as well?

Re:Fluxx

[chialea]

Ice House is more of a gaming kit than anything else. There are literally dozens of games (perhaps hundreds) that use those pieces. I've played several sets of rules, and I found them fun, but they are not near the top of my favorite games list, so I haven't pursued it. Basically I have very little free time, so it's easier for me to buy games which I know are very good and play those, instead of hunting for a fun game with those pieces.

Lea

Re:Fluxx

[JonBob]

Zendo is my favorite Icehouse game. If the set interests you, get the Zendo box which includes the stones you'll need to play that game. It's a lovely inductive logic game that appeals to most science types. Chrononauts is good too, but the new Early American version is better in that the rules are easier to pick up. All in all, I can't recommend Looney Labs enough as a company.

Re:Fluxx

[Poeir]

If you've enjoyed Fluxx, you might also enjoy Nomic. Dave Sirlin recommended both in the same article, and I trust his judgement.

Re:Fluxx

[DunbarTheInept]

The first and last time I ever played Fluxx I lost. Was it because I had bad strategy? No. Was it because I had a bad deal of a hand? No. Was it because I was a newbie and still feeling my way? No. It was because I didn't get to go at all. The game ended before the sequence of play had gone even once around the table. I never had a turn. I never played a card. If you had replaced me with a block of wood with my name on it, that would have had the same result. If you had not bothered to deal me in in the first place it would have had the same result.

Yeah, I know it's not supposed to be a serious game, but even in a joking game I still insist that I actually get to be a participant or there's no fun involved. They claimed it was an abberrant sceanrio that doesn't happen often, but I don't care. That it is possible at all indicates a major game design flaw.

Re:Fluxx

[DunbarTheInept]

Chrononauts is more fun to play than Fluxx, but it is not very fair. The goals you get are randomly assigned to the player by luck of the draw, and some goals require three times as many prerequisite events as others do.

Re:Fluxx

[chialea]

I didn't remember it being that bad... except possibly the cockroach one. Frankly, I thought it was just a fun, light game to play in between other games. The Star Wars game where you battle little miniature figures tends to have hand management problems and one player will get whooped, but it's fast and fun enough not to matter.

Lea

Re:Fluxx

[dvdeug]

Yeah, I know it's not supposed to be a serious game, but even in a joking game I still insist that I actually get to be a participant or there's no fun involved. They claimed it was an abberrant sceanrio that doesn't happen often, but I don't care. That it is possible at all indicates a major game design flaw.

If the game was over very quickly, then why worry about it? You got screwed by the cards; it can happen in any card game. If it were like the game of Nuclear Proliferation I played recently, where one player was killed before the first turn technically started, and then the game took another couple hours after that, I could see your complaint. But if you lose a hand of poker or blackjack or spades, you don't complain; you go onto the next hand. Just consider it one hand lost and keep playing.

Re:Fluxx

[Anonymous Coward]

The Game of Mao. Then all you need is a regular deck of cards.

Re:Fluxx

[d.valued]

Looney Labs also makes:
-Stoner Fluxx, which is flooded with weed and donates a buck towards legalization
-Chrononauts and Early American Chrononauts, where you can screw around with time for fun and profit
-Are You A Werewolf?, the cheapest fun you can have with 9-15 people (it costs three f***ing bucks! and you get to kill the peasantry!)
-Nanofictionary, where you make up a cute little story on the fly
-Fluxx Aquarius, where you try to get seven tiles with your image to connect
-Icehouse, whose pyramids are the basis of myriad games ranging from simple to absolutely psychotically hard!

Re:Fluxx

[DunbarTheInept]

You got screwed by the cards; it can happen in any card game.

False. Re-read the post. My cards were irrelevant. I never had a turn. It was not a case of me participating but with bad luck. It was a case of me being left out of participating at all. That is NOT something that can "happen in any card game". In fact in MOST games, card or otherwise it is 100% impossible to lose before your first opportunity to act as a player of some sort.

Re:Fluxx

[DunbarTheInept]

The problem is that some goals take only 1 card flipped a certain way, and others get goals that require lots of cards flipped just the right way (since if any requisite cards flip, the consequent ones do). The more cards that have to be flipped just-so, the more likely it is that someone else at the table has a goal that will require one of them flipped differently.

The game could have been just as whimiscal and fun even if they had bothered to balance this - make each event have the same number of perrequisites. There's enough events in alternate history to play with that this could easily have been done, but they chose not to.

"Fair Game" and "Fun game" don't have to be goals at odds with each other, but Looney Labs constantly seem to behave as if they do. The only game they put out that is good is Zendo, and that's because it's sort not really a game, and the challenge is provided by the other players anyway (not by the game makers).

Re:Fluxx

[dvdeug]

You got screwed by the cards; it can happen in any card game.

False. Re-read the post. My cards were irrelevant. I never had a turn.

I didn't say your cards, I said the cards.

In fact in MOST games, card or otherwise it is 100% impossible to lose before your first opportunity to act as a player of some sort.

It could happen in Uno or Magic: the Gathering; would you refuse to play those games because of that?

In fact, Fluxx is better than many games in this sense. There's many games--Monopoly, Nuclear Proliferation, multi-player Magic: the Gathering, Rail Baron, etc.--where you can get knocked out of the game early on, and in long games you may be sitting on your hands for hours watching other people play. If a Fluxx game continues for long enough, you'll get to play.

I don't entirely understand your feelings here. In many short games, you can quickly lose and there was nothing you could do about it. So you play another round or two. In a lot of games, you can have bad luck and never get to do anything that matters. I don't understand the distinction you feel between that, and not playing at all.

Re:Fluxx

[DunbarTheInept]

It could happen in Uno or Magic: the Gathering; would you refuse to play those games because of that?

Yes.
(Although Magic has additional reasons that are more important.)


There's many games--Monopoly, Nuclear Proliferation, multi-player Magic: the Gathering, Rail Baron, etc.--where you can get knocked out of the game early on,

Don't shift the subject. "Knocked out early" is not the same thing as "knocked out before participating".

Show me how to lose before having any player interaction in Monopoly. To lose you have to lose your money - and there isn't anything for you to pay if you aren't taking a turn and landing
on any properties.

(Although monopoly isn't that good of a game anyway, it doesn't have this particular flaw.)


In a lot of games, you can have bad luck and never get to do anything that matters

I have yet to see a game that does this as badly as Fluxx, where it's not even a figure of speech or a slight exaggeration to say "anything that matters" - it was 100% literal truth.

I don't understand the distinction you feel between that, and not playing at all.
I don't> see a distinction. That's the problem. I wasn't really participaying in a game if I never had a say in the setup, and I never really had a turn. (Exception - there are some games where you can participate even when it's not your turn, with auction mechanisms and things like that.)

Re:Fluxx

[dvdeug]

Don't shift the subject. "Knocked out early" is not the same thing as "knocked out before participating".

You weren't "knocked out before participating". The game was over before you participated. You weren't sitting to the side; at any point you could have been called on to play.

So in a night's game playing, there were a couple minutes where a game was going on that you weren't participating. The point was, that in many games, you can end up sitting for hours not participating. The metagame is more important than the game.

I don't see a distinction. That's the problem. I wasn't really participaying in a game if I never had a say in the setup, and I never really had a turn.

That wasn't the distinction I was asking about. I was asking about the distinction between being screwed by luck where none of your moves matter and never getting to play. If Luck isn't a lady in one hand of spades or hearts or poker, then you forget and go on to the next hand. If one game of Fluxx you don't get to participate, you toss the cards in and go on to the next. It's not like you wasted a lot of time.

BTW, I've never seen this happen in the couple dozen games of Fluxx I've played. Playing a game once doesn't really give you a feel, especially if you get screwed by Luck in that game.

Re:Fluxx

[DunbarTheInept]

I was asking about the distinction between being screwed by luck where none of your moves matter and never getting to play.

Well there is one difference - time wasted. I'm just eliminating the middleman by not playing it again. I can live with a little bit of luck in a game, but 100% luck makes the game a total waste of my time since I have no input. Fluxx, from the rules, felt like it would be that way, and the example case where I tried playing it confirmed, and exceeded my expectations that it would be all luck and no player input. What's the point in that? Why not make "the die rolling game" where you roll a die, the other guy rolls a die, and the high roll wins. Where's the fun in that?

Re:Fluxx

[Anonymous Coward]

So you had a preconception of the game and when a scenario (fairly rare) happened to back up your agenda (to post here slamming the game) you never bother to play it again even though chances are you never will have that experiance again.

I thouhght you low UID /.ers were supposed to be intelligent and have a pair of balls.

Did you cry in your mothers lap that night?

Re:Fluxx

[DunbarTheInept]

you had a preconception of the game

False.

your agenda (to post here slamming the game)

False.

I don't tolerate lying.

Re:Fluxx

[dvdeug]

I was asking about the distinction between being screwed by luck where none of your moves matter and never getting to play.

Well there is one difference - time wasted.

I don't quite understand why that's a difference.

I can live with a little bit of luck in a game, but 100% luck makes the game a total waste of my time since I have no input. Fluxx, from the rules, felt like it would be that way, and the example case where I tried playing it confirmed, and exceeded my expectations that it would be all luck and no player input. What's the point in that?

Ah! We get to the heart of the issue. There is strategy involved, about when to play which card. But little of it's long-term, and it's easy to win or lose on pure luck. The cards are colorful (in a literary sense) and there is enough strategy to keep it interesting for some people. But, yes, it's very much a luck driven game, where an completely unforeseen victory can happen when someone draws the wrong card is forced to play it. That reason for not wanting to play Fluxx, I understand completely

Mindtrap

[echocharlie]

I'm partial to Mind Trap. It's like Trivial Pursuit with Riddles. Here's a sample question:

A black dog stands in the middle of an intersection in a town painted black. None of the street lights are working due to a power failure caused by a local storm. A car with two broken headlights drives towards the dog but turns in time to avoid hitting him. How could the driver have seen the dog in time?

Re:Mindtrap

[DonServo]

Hmmm... It was the middle of the day? The driver was going to turn anyway?

Re:Mindtrap

[Anonymous Coward]

Since there was a storm, pehaps a strike of lightning could have lit up the area...?

Re:Mindtrap

[SirBruce]

The sun was out? Bruce PS - Or a full moon.

Re:Mindtrap

[echocharlie]

Answer: It was during the Daytime.

Here's another:
Picture a bridge four kilometers long and strong enough to hold ten thousand kilograms, but no more. A loaded transport truck weighing exactly ten thousand kilograms drives onto the bridge. At the halfway point, a sparrow weighing 30 grams lands on the truck, yet the bridge doesn't collapse. How could this be?

Re:Mindtrap

[Anonymous Coward]

It was daytime. /Obvious

Re:Mindtrap

[jamie]

I'm gonna guess the truck burned 30 g of fuel driving those 2 km. What do I win? :)

Re:Mindtrap

[finnw]

The dog is on fire.

Re:Mindtrap

[echocharlie]

Q: In 1843, in North Carolina, two sisters married two brothers and they all lived under the same roof. From there, things went bad. Although the two brothers were considered inseparable, the two sisters began to quarrel to such a degree they had to move to separate houses. The two brothers weren't overly pleased with the separate house situation and as a result they quite often couldn't be bothered going home. Neither brother concealed the fact that if he stayed out all night, it was a good bet he spent the night in another woman's bed. Although both sisters were hot tempered and jealous, for some reason they must have put up with their husbands' sleeping around since they never divorced and each bore several children. What could account for these two headstrong sisters turning a blind eye to their husbands' indiscretions?

Re:Mindtrap

[echocharlie]

That's right.

Re:Mindtrap

[p4ul13]

The brothers were siamese twins. ??

Re:Mindtrap

[stanmann]

Siamese twins. Although it's still rather kinky.

Re:Mindtrap

[zzyzx]

The brothers were siamese twins?

Re:Mindtrap

[Anonymous Coward]

It's daytime. Duh.

Mindtrap really pisses me off.

Re:Mindtrap

[p4ul13]

Don't knock it. Once you've gone circus freak, you never go back.

Re:Mindtrap

[randomiam]

The truck burned far more than 30 g worth of fuel during the 1st half of the drive.

(This was also a riddle on Car Talk)

Re:Mindtrap

[echocharlie]

Q: You're alone in a room where the walls, ceiling and floor are made of solid concrete. There's a small hole in the ground with a ping-pong ball securely lodged into it. You only have with you a wooden ruler, a string, a pocket mirror, and a magnet. How would you get the ping-pong ball out?

Re:Mindtrap

[nanter]

Push it through?

Re:Mindtrap

[echocharlie]

Hmm... didn't know about this, but there's actually a second edition of the game called Mindtrap II. Some people say it's better that the first.

Q: Four men sat down to play,
They played all night 'till break of day,
They played for gold and not for fun
With separate scores for everyone.
When they came to square accounts,
They all had made quite fair amounts.
Can you the paradox explain,
If no one lost, how could all gain.

Re:Mindtrap

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh man, that just made my day. Mod this up, everyone needs a laugh.

Re:Mindtrap

[echocharlie]

You mean push it further into the hole? How will that get it out?

Re:Mindtrap

[Anonymous Coward]

Q: You've been experimenting with your pet gerbil "fluffums'" plastic tube cage again, and you've managed to get his 8'' long bridge-pipe halfway up your butt. Suddenly you hear a loud crash and Fluffums--scared by the sound--leaps into the pipe and scurries up your anus and into what may be your lower intestinal track. All you see around the room is a flashlight, a rusted spoon, last months edition of "YM", a lighter, your linux computer with firefox opened to your slashdot homepage, and a battle axe. How can you get the girbel out before your mom gets home in five minutes?

Re:Mindtrap

[echocharlie]

Yeah, I agree that it has its fair share of really dumb questions. But for every one of those, there's one that's really fascinating.

Re:Mindtrap

[nanter]

ok, take the ruler, break it into a couple of pieces to create a sharp edge, puncture the ping pong ball with it so that it's deflated and then pull it out of the hole.

Re:Mindtrap

[Anonymous Coward]

Urinate in the hole, and the ball will float to the top.

Re:Mindtrap

[dagoi-koi]

When you say "ground" do you mean floor?

Re:Mindtrap

[KUHurdler]

First, I'd ask why I wanted to ping pong ball out.
Secondly, assuming I wanted it out, I would try to suck it out.
Thirdly, if that didnt work, I would use the mirror to sharpen the ruler and drill a hole in the ping pong ball big enough for the small end of the magnet (assuming it is rectangular, not spherical), and tie the string to it. now pull the ping pong ball out.

Re:Mindtrap

[KUHurdler]

I have two guesses.
They were playing music, or they were panning for gold.

Re:Mindtrap

[Dynedain]

The events in question occur during the daytime.

Re:Mindtrap

[echocharlie]

Correct.

Re:Mindtrap

[echocharlie]

Yep, it was a string quartet.

Re:Mindtrap

[Sargondai]

This is my new favorite Slashdot comment.

So rare these days to laugh out loud in my office. Thanks!

Re:Mindtrap

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm partial to Mind Trap.

I'm not. You have to come up with the exact answer on the card (no "the dog's on fire"), and there are only a set number of cards - once you play through the deck, the game's pretty much shot.

One of the requirements I have for a good game is that it isn't "used up." You can take it on a desert island, and every game is the same as the last. Mind Trap fails this because it relies on puzzling out mind benders on a fixed set of cards - if you've seen the card before, there's no more game, as you already know the answer.

Re:Mindtrap

[nanter]

See, this is why I hate this game. That's not going to work if the ball is 'securely lodged into the hole'. The urine will merely accumulate above the ball.

However, puncturing the ball and then removing it since it will not be wedged into the hole anymore is a viable approach that is not correct only because the JAs who came up with this game didn't think of it.

Whatever.

Re:Mindtrap

[nanter]

Yes, and the other problem with this game is that some questions require real solutions - as in the truck burning fuel to lessen its weight, and others require 'trick' solutions, such as the one about it being daylight - no pragmatic answers allowed there!

Pretty much the only requirement I have for a good game is that it's FUN. Mindtrap is not fun. It is frustration in a box. You'd have to pay me a substantial amount of money to play this game.

Re:Mindtrap

[dman123]

Ditto. It's even better when you are viewing as threaded with a high threshhold and all of a sudden this comment pops out without any context as a +5. There was no way I was going to skip over this thread.

Re:Mindtrap

[lmh2671772]

How would you get the ping-pong ball out?

The ping-pong ball is on fire.

Re:Mindtrap

[echocharlie]

I agree that it's poorly written. I seem to remember a different wording on this card in the actual game without the "securely lodged" phrasing. IIRC, this is a so-called diamond-question which allows the player to ask yes/no questions to determine the answer, which makes this riddle somewhat more forgiving, though still horribly constructed.

Re:Mindtrap

[gopher_hunt]

That's twice in this thread I've spit coffee out laughing!

Re:Mindtrap

[mcowger]

He had those horrible PIAA foglights. You know, the blinding ones :)

Re:Mindtrap

[cheinonen]

How about they were just identical twins? They can sleep with the other sister and they'll never know the difference, at face value.

Re:Mindtrap

[Fjornir]

Thanks for the sig!

Re:Mindtrap

[Anonymous Coward]

Why try to remove him? Just pull out the bridge pipe and let him suffocate to death. No one will ever know.

Re:Mindtrap

[Anonymous Coward]

Please mod me up for the sake of people saving $$ from Mindtrap. This game sucks! And to top it off it usually goes for like $25! What a rip off!

Re:Mindtrap

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem is: what is an acceptable answer?

I think if someone answered "the dog is on fire" for the first question, I would accept it :)

Those riddles are interesting logically, but damn annoying with their "only one answer is right even if we want you to think laterally to get it!" approach...

(Plus the ping pong ball question said nothing about getting it out in one piece. I would have answered "take the ruler and use the corner to smash the ping pong ball and get the pieces out." :)

Re:Mindtrap

[Anonymous Coward]

Based on the success of previous answers:

The gerbil is on fire?

Re:Mindtrap

[sahrss]

"They all had made quite fair amounts."

That would indicate that they all made fair amounts; that is, equal amounts. So they tied. :)

Re:Mindtrap

[Flyboy Connor]

And it isn't a good answer anyway, because the problem stated that you had a ruler, a string, a mirror, and a magnet. It said nothing about having a full bladder.

My own solution (with a firmly wedged ball) would be to smash the mirror and cut the ball to pieces with the shards.

Re:Mindtrap

[drac]

It's daytime.

Re:Mindtrap

[Anonymous Coward]

the coffee was on fire!!

Re:Mindtrap

[Anonymous Coward]

Since you have a lighter, that may be easily done when you light up the gasses coming out of the pipe.

Re:Mindtrap

[Anonymous Coward]

While the official answer is "its daytime" and the funniest answer is "the dog is on fire", what about pulling into a driveway before the intersection? Turning right (left depending on nationality) at the intersection? (If the dog was in the center, you'd not hit it unless you turned REALLY wide)

I agree with everyone else, making a game out of riddles is pretty pointless.

Re:Mindtrap

[Anonymous Coward]

The urine is on fire.

Re:Mindtrap

[stormhair]

The urine is on fire

Sounds like a urinary tract infection.

Re:Mindtrap

[Anonymous Coward]

There was an updraft.

Or: The truck burned 30g of gas getting there.

Or: The bridge observes limit state design principles, and the rating is conservative by a factor of, say 1.2. The real limit is 12,000 kg.

Or: The bird lands, hooks his talons, but keeps his wings outspread. In this context, he adds lift, not weight.

Or: There is no bird. We only think there is a bird.

Re:Mindtrap

[Hognoxious]

The bird lands, hooks his talons, but keeps his wings outspread. In this context, he adds lift, not weight.

Most birds I've seen have to flap their wings to create lift.

Re:Mindtrap

[Snaller]

Answer: It was during the Daytime.

Hm.. somehow i feel banging my head against the wall would be more entertaining.

Some other good games

[kaybee]

Some of my favorites are Goa, Puerto Rico, Bang!, Bohnanza, Acquire, and so many more.

Check out www.gamesinabox.com as that is where I buy most of mine -- usually each game is about $1 more, but they usually ship same-day and shipping costs are very reasonable.

Classic Battletech (What Else?)

[RobotRunAmok]

Classic Battletech.

Okay, so technically, it's not so much a boardgame as it is a religion and a Way of Life, but is there any geekier reason to throw dice and push things about a tabletop?

Scrabble cards

[bushboy]

Scrabble cards are an excellent substitute for the board game and are actually just as fun in thier own way.

Find out more about them here :-

http://www.google.com/search?q=scrabble+cards

Be a Cheapass...

[rilister]

my favorite find of the last few years has been Cheapass Games: http://www.cheapass.com/products/index.html

All their games are imaginative, fun and, best of all, cost next to f-all. It's refreshing to see someone trying to be fresh about game styles.

Personal favorites:
Unexploded Cow - a poker-style game involving incinerating BSE infected cattle in French minefields...

The Great Brain Robbery - Get your Zombie out of the runaway train by stealing brains with special abilities.

Bitin Off Hedz - even works for kids - a standard-ish board game where dinosaurs race to extinction.

They're so cheap you can afford to take a risk anyway.

Re:Be a Cheapass...

[The G Man]

You gotta love the Devil Bunny games.

Devil Bunny Hates the Earth: you are taffy machines trying to get yourselves gummed up with squirrels.

Devil Bunny Needs a Ham: you are sous chefs trying to climb a building.

Probably the most surreal games I've ever played.

Re:Be a Cheapass...

[johnjay]

Thanks for the suggestions...I'm thinking, Deadwood and the Great Brain Robbery, maybe Kill Dr Lucky as well.

Re:Be a Cheapass...

[mink]

Lord of the Fries is abetter IMO Zombie based game then GBR, but thats because my first time playing it an experianced player blazed up to the front and I was spending most of the game running up the tracks.

Settlers of Catan

[JavaSavant]

Probably already mentioned, but Settlers of Catan http://www.mayfairgames.com/mfg-shop/central/mfg-s oc.html(as well as many of it's expansion sets) never seem to get old, particularly "Cities and Knights"

"Attack!"

[jamie]

I just played "Attack!" the other day for the first time, with a friend who -- like me -- finds Risk too easy and Axis and Allies too tedious. I like the game and think we'll enjoy playing it more. The combat rules are a bit like Axis and Allies, but the rules for conducting turns are more open and flexible, placing and moving units requires less planning ahead, and naval control is much simplified. So the game goes a lot faster. The object is global conquest, and it's more pure-strategy like Risk in that you can pick your starting locations. I have the feeling it'd be best with 3-4 players.

The one odd thing is that the basic game of "Attack!", at $30 retail, only has the Western hemisphere and Europe and Africa; if you want to carry your world war over into Asia (and make the game fun for more players, I assume) you need the expansion which is another $30 retail.

Re:"Attack!"

[p4ul13]

Just want to drop another vote for Attack!. It's a lot of fun even for folks who haven't played any battle strategy board game before. The rules were pretty easy once we walked through a couple turns step by step.

You promiscuous vermin!

[The MESMERIC]

Fancy getting laid ! ...

:(

/me sobs ...

Squad Leader

[Art_XIV]

Aspiring grognards may be interested in the Advanced Squad Leader Starter Kit from Multiman Publishing. MMP has run out of it's first production run, though, but will be doing another run soon.

Yes, Squad Leader is still alive and kicking, and this is a very good way to learn it w/o reading the entire Big Damned Binder O' ASL Rules or taking a semester course in ASL.

No Nuke War? No Illuminati? BLASPHEMERS!

[wowbagger]

No Nuke War?
No Illuminati?
No Hackers?

I pronounce you all BLASPHEMERS and revoke your geek status, ALL OF YOU!

And after all, who can forget doing combinations?

"OK, I'll see your Bavarian Gnomes, and I'll sic Skippy on your servers at No Such Agency!"

Re:No Nuke War? No Illuminati? BLASPHEMERS!

[rjung2k]

Yes to Nuclear War, but no to the expansions.

(Okay, Nuclear Escalation wasn't bad, but the game jumped the shark with Nuclear Proliferation.)

Re:No Nuke War? No Illuminati? BLASPHEMERS!

[pthisis]

Car wars.

Re:No Nuke War? No Illuminati? BLASPHEMERS!

[Anonymous Coward]

I did a lot of Car Wars back in the day. We always ended the game in like 3.8 sec. gametime. But it was fun building the cars, though.

nice, but

[b3s]

um, what about the new 18xx games developed in Europe? 18EU and Namibia are new this year. I like 18EU quite a bit, even if it is more of a builder game.

Connect 4

[Twisted64]

Connect 4 by Hasbro - now there's a good, simple game. As far as I'm concerned, if you're playing without a clock, a game should last until the very last piece. How do people manage to miss the obvious? It's like an exercise in misdirection.

Party Games

[DonniKatz]

I know a good party game I like to start off with is Drink the Beer ...YOU WIN!

Re:Party Games

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow! What do I win?

Re:Party Games

[Hamster Of Death]

Another beer!

not for the average table

[FerretFrottage]

20' by 20'---400sq ft of Go playing goodness (well except in the US where our math skillz--yeah, our spelling sucks too--would equate to a board size of "= zero")

Settlers is a great game!

[Savatte]

Very modifiable, hackable, and completey different each time you play. You can make up your own rules, like only moving the robber a certain number of spaces, or using other players' ports. Try mixing the land tiles in with the water for extra randomness.

And the Cities And Knights expansion for the true hardcore player is a great gift. Of course, the true hardcore player probably already has this. And the Seafarers. Plus the 5-6 player expansions for all 3...

Ghettopoly

[kiley]

http://www.ghettopoly.com/

Totally Insane Card Game

[Jens_UK]

While not a board game, we've been enjoying the Totally Insane Card Game with friends lately. It can most simply be described as Uno on crack. It can be played at great speed, and allows for spiteful play as well. Hooray!

it always depends

[marika]

Break the safe is a great 30$ game when you can play 15 or 30 minutes with a timer. It'a a coop game you play against the timer with your friends. 1313 dead-end drive is hilarious and cheap I got it for 5 $ at toys R us, a nice strategy game when you try to get away with your dead aunt's money and you compete against your family members. A good vintage game you can still find on ebay for about 300$ is The dark tower for those of you who still remember it. We maybe 6-7 here ;) I mean 1981 is a long time ago.

Re:it always depends

[mink]

You can spend a whole lot less and get Dork Tower (a game in spirit of dark tower), sure it's not electronic, but it's 1/10 the cost.

Re:it always depends

[marika]

Way cool. Thank you.

cool games

[DarkSarin]

while some are not really board games (rather being card games), if you are into playing board games, you should try these.

These games are generally fast, fun and require more strategy than is readily apparent from the shipping package. I highly recommend Kill Dr. Lucky. It's fun. You are a guy who hates Dr. Lucky (a rich philanthropist), and you want to kill him while at his mansion for a dinner party. Only thing is, everyone else wants to kill him too, but you don't realize that. So you have to get him into a room by yourself and then try to kill him. It's amusing.

Another great game is Chrononauts, which is a card game with an interesting twist.

Only one game for me...

[biglig2]

... Mornington Crescent!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0752847 29 5/qid=1102452478/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/026-2652614 -5252413

Re:Only one game for me...

[d.valued]

Time to go now.. Samantha has been talking to a musician friend, and he has fixed her up with a large pianist. She's having difficulty squeezing him in to her docket...

1000 Blank White Cards!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

1000 Blank White Cards is the Best game of all time!

The game is totally self-adjusting to the playing environment, creative, fun and good for all kinds of times.

Plus it's the best game ever invented for getting women naked and doing nasty things!

-posted anonymously to protect the identities of women ive gotten naked-

Best Board Game

[ktcifone]

I hate board games because I suck at them. The only one I like is a game called Past Lives. You can steal from the other players, games usually take about 1 hour, but longer the more experienced you get, great for company.

Phn'glui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wagn'nagl fhtagn

[widderslainte]

Necronomonopoly

Well, it is a card game, but I would suggest this.

[AltGrendel]

Mille Bornes.

It's a great game and you never get the same play out of a round twice.

My favorites

[Komi]

I'm an avid board game player. I love to play games with big groups, and I love one's with just my wife.

Here's a list of games that I play a lot (in order that I think of them):

• Settlers of Cataan (and Seafarers expansino)
• Carcassonne (and many expansions)
• Game of Thrones (with Clash of Kings Expansion)
• Risk: Godstorm
• Ticket to Ride (great for people new to gaming)
• Bang (great for large groups of 6-8)
• St. Petersburg
• Diplomacy (can cause you to hate your friends!)

Here's a few games that are good for 2 players:

• Carcassonne
• Knightmare Chess (1 and 2)
• Settlers of Cataan: Card Game (with expansions)
• St. Petersburg
• Ticket to Ride
• Balloon Cup
• Battle Cry

komi

Re:My favorites

[RedWizzard]

You should try Puerto Rico, Princes of Florence, and El Grande. All very good strategy board games.

Wargames

[anothernobody]

Memoir '44 is great, but if the putdown of real wargames made you wonder whatever happened to them, check out: http://www.consimworld.com/

They live! (and die of course)

Cashflow 101

[hojo]

For those of you who enjoyed/enjoy Monopoly or other financial-type games, give this one a look: Cashflow. My wife and I have loved playing it. It's expensive, but you can consider it to be an education in a box. It can carry some real-world lessons on finances.

We got ours through eBay, not the link I provided, and it was cheaper. It was this game that got us started in real investing, not just 401(k) stuff.

Re:Cashflow 101

[Anonymous Coward]

I concur. Very good game in regards to personal finance. Makes you think more about assets & liabilities than income & expenses. Gives you a different perspective of the financial world we ALL live in. I haven't played CF 202, but I heard it is even better as far as advanced financial lessons learned.

I agree 100%.

[jrwillis]

I tested high enoguh to get into Mensa, and that's not saying much for them as a group.

Re:I agree 100%.

[kin_korn_karn]

I tested high enoguh to get into Mensa, and that's not saying much for them as a group.
--
Vote Libertarian! [lp.org]

I guess not.

Re:I agree 100%.

[realdpk]

I guess not.
--
Am I the only slashdot user that thought that Minority Report qualified as a horror movie?

I guess so.

Re:I agree 100%.

[pthisis]

I guess not.
--
Am I the only slashdot user that thought that Minority Report qualified as a horror movie?

I guess so.
--
Flash ads on slashdot? Am I just now noticing them or something?

I suppose.

Diplomacy is my ...

[milgr]

favorite game that I refuse to play. I last played it 16 years ago. We played 1 turn per week. We never finished the game, but after all the back stabbing, I had trouble reconsiling with some of the people playing the game.

My other big complaint with the game is that it takes too long to play.

fantasy boardgames

[Anonymous Coward]

wizard's quest (avalon hill) - this one's a piece of cake, anybody can learn it
kings & things - a total blast! hard to find the original english version though. also very easy to learn. wish they'd reprint the english version...
magic realm (avalon hill) - fairly complex but incredibly fun and deep boardgame/rpg hybrid. make sure you get the 2e rules though.
outdoor survival (avalon hill) - well okay it's not a fantasy game per se, but it's noteworthy because arneson/gygax used the board when they were running/playtesting the original (1974) dungeons & dragons game. OS is quite a fun (and easy to learn) game in its own right though.

Bad list !!! Use the offficial gamers database !!!

[Anonymous Coward]

This weekly updated (as needed) list of the top 100 games (countless more in the full list) complete with total votes and standard deviation scores :

http://scv.bu.edu/~aarondf/Top100/

voted on by thousands of board gamers!

bookmark it.

All your favorite baord games are in it (sometimes under german original release spelings)

Most of my favorites still in publication made it to the top 100 in THAT LIST.

I'd compare it fully to the other list in the news link but it was slashdotted instantly. Please avoid slashdotting
http://scv.bu.edu/~aarondf/Top100/
though its a major university, it may still be possible.

that list is a true gem,

by the way "Puerto Rico" is currently top game.

Lost Cities is still in top 35

a decent sampling of the top 60 games have been turned into online versions on a variety of free little known java game multiplayer web sites, ad free, etc.

My standbys

[blankman]

Settlers of Catan, Fluxx, just about anything from Cheapass Games, Taboo, Balderdash, Trivial Pursuit and Apples to Apples.
Fluxx, in particular, is fast, easy, often funny and unpredictable.
Another favorite for music lovers is a game called Encore. Two teams, and yout team's turn consists of moving and taking a card with a word on it. Then you and the other team have to sing songs with the word until one team can't come up with any more. The other team gets the next turn.

Some of my favorites

[joke-boy]

I frequently game with a bunch of friends, who are all pretty much power gamers (GenCon, that kind of thing). My list of favorites, based on my experiences with them, is

• Outpost - pure strategy, with little "hose your enemy" to it
• Puerto Rico
• Junta - great for people who like to bring personalities into games
• Any of the Catan versions

And, of course, I'd always recommend the classic, Cosmic Encounter (sans lucre). These are mostly "play for a few hours" games.

Cheapass Games

[avdi]

I've been buying Cheapass Games lately, and I've been very pleased with them. They're cheap (duh), they put original game mechanics ahead of fancy packaging or gimmicks, and they incorporate a healthy amount of humor.

Less than two minutes?

[jellisky]

That's all? ;)

In one game I played, one of my friends, first turn whatsoever in the game, laughs, plays "Play All", then plays a random Goal card, then the "All You Need Is Love" Goal card, then followed up by the "Love" Item. Five seconds after the game started, it was done.

The next game then proceeded to take 10 re-shuffles of the discard pile.

I love that game.

-Jellisky

Re:Classic Battletech (What Else?)

[kallisti]

but is there any geekier reason to throw dice and push things about a tabletop?

WarHammer 40K?

GAMES Magazine 100

[robbway]

Since GAMES originally published the list, everyone should know some of their rules:

1) Games can only appear on one year's list. (They kept repeating all of the classics)

2) There is a Hall of Fame where the standards, like Monopoly, Risk, Acquire, and others are permanently recognized as great games.

So, if you don't see a "new classic," it is because it was on the list within the last ten years. If it's brand-spanking new, it may make it next year.

Re:GAMES Magazine 100

[Anonymous Coward]

THATS why the only REAL data base list regularly updated by gamers counts.

no nonsense. just rankings of all known games ever.

BTW "Puerto Rico" is currently number one game. I mentioned this list already, but no one moderates anymore so i list it again here :

http://scv.bu.edu/~aarondf/Top100/full.txt

Re:GAMES Magazine 100

[Anonymous Coward]

1) Games can only appear on one year's list. (They kept repeating all of the classics)

Umm.. Is that a new rule this year for Games 100? I have the games 100 list for most of the past decade... There are quite a few repeats... off the top of my head, I don't think I"ve seen a game stay on the list for more than a 2 years though. Generally, whatever game they pick for game of the year makes it onto the next year's games 100.

Note: This appears to only be true for board games.. I don't think I've ever seen a repeat for their Electronic Games 100.

Set

[Benanov]

Set, from here.

A very entertaining pattern-matching game. My girlfriend has never lost a game to anyone.

Re:Set

[kzinti]

D'OH! You must have posted this while I was writing my explanation of Set. My family loves this game. I think it's harder than it sounds because it overflows the average person's "Seven, Plus or Minus Two" buffer.

Mensa best game list.

[zimage]

Every year, Mensa USA releases a list of their favorite games from the past year. I found it to be a very good gift list for my geeky friends.

http://mindgames.us.mensa.org/participant/past_win ners.php

PUERTO RICO PUERTO RICO

[Grabble]

Puero Rico is the #1 ranked game on boardgamegeek.com. That's why I bought it.

Then, I discovered why. Every person that I've introduced Puerto Rico to gets hooked. Here's a list of reasons why I'm a fanboy about it...

--) No waiting: When other people take their turns, all players must make decisions.

--) Creepily well-balanced. There is no (to my knowledge) "power move" or "race for a certain card" that lames out the game.

--) Incredible replayability: each time you play is different

--) Minimized randomness: Randomness exists in only a SINGLE aspect of the game. Everything is else is based on seating and "what are my opponents likely to do".

--) Fast games: You can play it three times in an evening. Crucial.

Re:PUERTO RICO PUERTO RICO

[Anonymous Coward]

boardgamegeek.com HA!!!!

CONSULT THE REAL SOURCE (it too lists Puerto Rico as #1 game)

a more scientific list rated by countless expert gamers at :

http://scv.bu.edu/~aarondf/Top100/list.txt

http://scv.bu.edu/~aarondf/Top100/full.txt

Re:PUERTO RICO PUERTO RICO

[Incadenza]

I wouldn't call it a fast game. Especially when you play with more than 3, the game can get really slow because of all the decision making (think think).

But the replayability is insane indeed. Every games turnes out different. Especially fascinating because of the lack of random input: it are the actions of you and your fellow players that generate this wealth of game scenarios.

Oh, and don't forget the fact that this game keeps most players in the running for a long time. There is no real 'losing position' where fellow players have to play for ages without having any chance to win, at least not until the latter stages of the game.

Re:PUERTO RICO PUERTO RICO

[chrisaj5]

A great warm up to Puerto Rico is the card game San Juan. Many similar concepts, but easier to learn and play. There's also some luck involved to give less experienced players a shot. It's also more portable, so I can easily take it when travelling!

Re:PUERTO RICO PUERTO RICO

[mjwills]

There is no real 'losing position' where fellow players have to play for ages without having any chance to win, at least not until the latter stages of the game. I would have to disagree. If a weak player plays strong players (many can be found at http://www.brettspielwelt.de/gate/jsp/base/) the weak player will be completely thumped. Also, the first 3 or 4 rounds are critical in PR - screw them up and chances of winning drop heavily. BTW, if you want to play it fast - http://www.brettspielwelt.de/gate/jsp/base/ is a good place to start. No setup time since its online...

Re:PUERTO RICO PUERTO RICO

[RedWizzard]

I wouldn't call it a fast game. Especially when you play with more than 3, the game can get really slow because of all the decision making (think think).

My group of usual players (3 of us) quickly got to the point where we can play a game in 40-60 minutes, though we do slow down if we're tired or drinking too much. Still I'd say it's as faster or faster than Settlers, and keeps you more involved.

Re:PUERTO RICO PUERTO RICO

[Incadenza]

My group of usual players (3 of us) quickly got to the point where we can play a game in 40-60 minutes, though we do slow down if we're tired or drinking too much.

That must be it: we are usually tired and drinking too much. We usually play it with friends after kid-intensive days. By the time they are in bed (if they stay in that is) it is usually quite late and you do need a drink.

Re:PUERTO RICO PUERTO RICO

[Thedalek]

Ummm... The Internet Top 100 Games list uses a sample set of 698 people. Boardgamegeek has thousands of users, and Puerto Rico's Bayesian average rating of 8.73 is based on a sample set of 2855 people (currently, likely to increase as everyone's Board Game Awareness Quotient goes up).

How you think that the IGT100 is more scientific when it uses the basically same methodology (it assumes every game to have a starting score of 3.25, which is averaged with submitted values to keep games from actually reaching 10, but the value of 3.25 is arbitrary) with a smaller sample set is beyond me.

Set

[kzinti]

One of our favorites is the card game called Set. Each card has symbols on it with four attributes: shape (oval, squiggle, or diamond), color (red, green, or purple), fill pattern (solid, empty, or striped), and number of symbols (one, two or three). You shuffle the cards, lay out a grid of twelve (or is it sixteen?) and try to find "sets". A set is three cards in which each attribute is the same on each card, or is different on every card. Sounds simple, but it's harder than it sounds, and amazingly addictive. The web site has the rules and a Java tutorial applet that you can use to practice set-finding.

By the way, does anybody know if they still make the logic game Wiff-n-Proof?

Axis and Allies

[Sefert]

I'm a big fan of this game. They just rereleased it with a slightly new ruleset (though why the hell they cant put in a plastic board instead of the crappy cardboard one I'll never know. Makes it spillproof and always flat.). Good fun!

Re:No Nuke War? No Illuminati? ---the real LIST!

[Anonymous Coward]

A **LOT** of other games came out in the last 20 years.

yours are still in the top 200 for certain,

refer to post :

http://games.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=131992 &t hreshold=-1&commentsort=0&tid=10&mode=thread&cid=1 1023497

(slashdot ruins non link citations with spaces, but one day they will fix it.)

Re:Betrayal at House on the Hill - GAME SPOILER

[Anonymous Coward]

I played an earlier version of that game... with
a different name.. but it sounds exactly the same

Its a lot of fun right up until the first sly weasel
figures out that the best way to win the game is to playing as the good guy is to ASSUME that you will get turned into the traitor at some point in the game ( not unlikely ), and therefor if you play the game with the traitors goals ( getting the evil item out of the game board ) ( the good guys try to destroy it to defeat the big bad ) - then you get the key item and then head casually towards the exit and await fate to turn you into the traitor -then you make a quick dash for the exit and an easy win - its sleazy but sadly it works every time .. and if you have even ONE weasel type in your game group ( will do anything to win ) once this strategy is discovered the game is pretty much ruined - cause the good guys cant fight against each other ( they are supposed to work together / prevent the traitor from winning...

Zillions of Games

[SeanDuggan]

Yes, I know that, as a computer game, it's strictly not a board game, but Zillions of Games is one of the best generic board game simulators available on the computer, at least for discrete non-math-based, non-card-based games. About 30 games and their variants are included with the default installation and users can modify these files or create their own to create new games. The best part of it is that ZoG has an AI such that you can input the rules of a game and the computer can generally play competently enough to beat you a large amount of the time by brute force. This is an especially excellent program for people who are fond of chess variants and want to see how an invented variant might play out. It allowed me to implement a chess variant I wrote in middle school. ^_^ And showed me that the variant was hideously unbalanced, but that's another matter entirely...

Axis and Allies

[redmond]

Since the article is ./ed, and I can't read it, I'll just throw this one out there. Axis and Allies is a great game. I combines everything that makes strategy games fun. Of course it requires at least 2 people to play (I know this means some of you won't be able to play it), but is is oodles more fun if you can get 3-4 people involved. Every year at Christmas, my dad, brother, and brother-in-law play this for hours, it's classic.

Play Diplomacy with your friends

[alexo]

and you will never trust them again.

Re:Play Diplomacy with your friends

[taustin]

Once the knife fight is over, trust will no longer be relevant.

Axis & Allies

[Plecostomus]

In my oh so humble opinion, Axis & Allies beats Risk in all regards. Sure it's not for everyone, but the more advanced rules, AA guns, and multiple units makes this game great fun for most adult boardgamers. Unfortunately, the most players you should try to incorperate is 5 (1 per nation), otherwise it gets quite hectic (we tried this once, it didn't work very well). And, if you're a diehard for wargaming: Warhammer! Tiny models you paint and assemble yourself and then pit against other people. Fun for some, paintful for others.

Re:Axis & Allies

[the morgawr]

Speaking of A&A have you played the new version 2? I've seen it at the hobby store but havn't had the cash to pick it up. Does anyone know if it's worth the cash? How does it compare to the original?

Re:Axis & Allies

[tomhudson]

Good game, except I can't find anyone locally who wants to play it.

Try Monopoly with Risk rules - you have a property I want (say Boardwalk - $400), I pay you the list price ($400) for the privilege of attacking it (dice rolled "a la risk"). If I win, I buy the property (again, another $400). If I don't I can either attack again, or continue playing.

Properties that have 1 or more houses built anywhere on a colour group are attack-free.

Mortgaged properties are attacked and bought at half price - making mortgaging a risky strategy.

the game goes much faster than regular monopoly, and is a lot more fun.

Re:Axis & Allies

[tomhudson]

Forgot to mention - the attack fee is the list price for every roll, so if it takes 5 attack rolls to win your property, you get 6x what you paid for it. You always get at least double the list price (unless its mortgaged, of course).

Re:Axis & Allies

[Anonymous Coward]

reviews say "yes"

Re:Axis & Allies

[FunkSoulBrother]

as I recall Axis and Allies is horribly unbalanced toward the allies winning (I suppose histotirically accurate, but still...)

Competitve board games should pit people on equal footing, or at least with miniscule imbalance (like who moves first in chess)

Not many useful games

[Anonymous Coward]

For social events, card games work fine (bridge or poker, especially). If you're serious about playing a game, though, play one that teaches something (like scrabble does words), or something that involves real strategy like Go.

Falling!

[Galvatron]

Technically a card game, not a board game, but insanely fun. Plus it's fast, easy to get people into (there's no fear of getting locked into a 3 hour ordeal if it turns out to be boring). Made by Cheapass games, I can't find a current reference to it on their site. Maybe it's out of production, but copies still seem to be available from game stores

Heroscape!

[SeanDuggan]

Also look at http://www.heroscape.net/ which has the rules as PDFs and various extensions by fans. It's essentially a very light wargame, simple enough that children can figure it out easily, but it can easily be made more complex for adults. (It ships with easy and "master" mode rules) There may be expansions if we can get people to buy the original game...

HikarUnix

[SeanDuggan]

Check out the HikarUnix LiveCD at http://users.bigpond.net.au/cyberburn/hikarunix.ht ml. It's basically a LiveCD devoted to various computer programs of Go including several networked versions. And since it's a LiveCD, it's as easy as burning it and popping it into a computer when you want to play.

Re:HikarUnix

[Anonymous Coward]

perhaps http://www.hikarunix.org/ is a better link as it has download links/torrent etc etc.

Re:Board Games that Teach Human Rights

[RedMagus77]

It's a nice thought, but just one problem: Games are inheriently about competition. Even a friendly game of UNO is about being the first. I doubt that a game based on "values" could really make it in market, and also doubt that any company would bet on it to make it. Still, I like the idea. The big question is the fun/replay value. I wonder if there is a way around the competition problem, hmm...

Re:Classic Battletech (What Else?)

[AsbestosRush]

My only problem with Classic BTech was the amount of time it took to run a single scenario. If you had more than 4 or 5 mechs on the field, unless at least 1 or 2 of the players (one including the GM) memorized all the hit tables for all of their stuff, it was hugely time consuming to play even just one session of Btech.
Don't get me wrong, I spent plenty on sourcebooks and stuff, with my latest purchase being the 4 pregenerated mech books (3055 light, med, heavy, and ultra mechs, both clan and IS included), but I don't think this is a game that one picks up to kill "a couple" of hours. miniumum 4 hours or better has been my experience, but it was usually pretty entertaining.
At least with D&D, you can usually find a decent stopping point pretty easily. Btech you had to either play through, or document every movement you made in the last turn before quitting.

Avalon Hill

[Anonymous Coward]

too bad those classic games
such as RAIL BARON, ACQUIRE etc..

are hard to find - they are tons of fun and
used to make great gifts..

Balderdash

[SeanDuggan]

At one point, there was Beyond Balderdash, which added famous names, famous dates, acronyms, and movie titles to the mix. *wry grin* Some worked better than others, as the famous name and famous date categories often had a specific format to the right answer that made it easy to pick out among the user-submitted ones. The acronym one is an excellent addition though.

Although, come to think of it, last I was in the Toy Section of Walmart, they had a gold-boxed Balderdash which included the above, so it could be they rolled it back into the main line.

Three wining games

[SuperMallen]

1. Settlers of Catan (already mentioned)
2. Carcassone
3. Acquire

All of these games have the four attributes which make good adult board games:

- They are fun to play
- The more you play, the more strategy you develop
- They take around an hour
- No one gets eliminated

Re:Extensive list -- ha! not as good a this list

[Anonymous Coward]

A better non tamperred list is maintained at

http://scv.bu.edu/~aarondf/Top100/full.txt

no nonsense. just rankings of all known games ever.

BTW "Puerto Rico" is currently number one game. I mentioned this list already, but no one moderates anymore so i list it again here :

http://scv.bu.edu/~aarondf/Top100/full.txt

Computerized

[BortQ]

I offer a computerized version of the board game Risk with quite a lot of nifty features. Anyone interested should check out Lux.

Munchkin!

[Masker]

Munchkin is a great tongue-in-cheek board game for the RPGer in your social circle or family. It's a card game (not CCG) with quite a lot of expansion packs. Basically, you try to clear a dungeon & if a friend gets in the way or is going to win first, you screw them over.

Very fun, quick game.

Re:Munchkin!

[d.valued]

QUICK?!?!?!?

You gotta be nuts.

I play a total blender (which, to add to the chaos, I've completely sleeved- small-format card sleeves are perfect for this) which lasts - typically! - three hours a pop between five people.

SJ Games, though, make a great choice for non-collectible card games, and you are supporting a guy who got f***ed over by the Secret Service because of a game related to hacking.

Fnord.

Re:Munchkin!

[Cederic]

If you want to get people into adult board games who don't normally play them, Munchkin (or its variants) is a great way in.

It's incredibly simple to learn, very well balanced, actually requires you to screw people over (and so takes away the resentment that might otherwise cause) and is just darn good fun.

The other good game for drawing people in to intelligent board games is Settlers of Catan (mentioned elsewhere in this thread). This is great for getting girls interested - it's entirely non-combative, which for some reason appeals to them. ;)

~Cederic

Re:Munchkin!

[ArmorFiend]

Got to disagree with you there, I thought this game was a real snoozefest. The only strategy is to conceal your true strength, wait for someone else to shoot out in front, so that they exhaust everyone else's screw cards, then try to slingshot past them to victory. I've played millions of games like that, almost all of them more interesting.

Having said that, Munchkin has been a real hit for SJG, so I must be in the minority.

Encore

[SeanDuggan]

^_^ Another fun game to play is Encore. While it does involve singing, it doesn't judge your singing voice, just your knowledge of lyrics. And, as the contest involves the teams going back and forth singing a section of lyrics containing the word on a card, there's no penalty for not having grown up in a particular era of music, as I've found in other singing games. Fun for the whole family, as the older members supply songs from the classical rock-and-roll era or even the Big Band era while the kids supply the latest childrens songs and jingles.

Matthew Baldwin

[Capt_Troy]

The guy who wrote this for the Morning News maintains a hilarious blog. One should be so inclined to check it out at www.defectiveyeti.com

Re:Board Games that Teach Human Rights

[Anonymous Coward]

The market for such games does exist. Walk into any Christian bookstore, and you will find games that teach values. The idea is to instill Christian values in children at a young age.

The problem is that those values are Christian ones, and I find them to be offensive.

I think that we can create boardgames that teach good moral values without any mention of Christianity. A market does exist, but we need an entrepreneur to develop the game.

mensa info

[Anonymous Coward]

>>mensa a group that exists to fill the self indulgence of moderately intelligent people to each other. let me use them as my guide.

To get into mensa one's iq must be higher than 98% of the world. I wouldn't call that moderate, but they aren't really as smart as portrayed on The Simpsons.

> I tested high enoguh to get into Mensa, and that's not saying much for them as a group.

If they aren't smart enough for you there is always TOPS: The Top One Percent Society or Triple Nine (top 99.9%).

Re:mensa info

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to agree with the poster above - MENSA are overrated. I easily get in on their IQ test (I'd also get into TOPS if that is the criterion, but not Triple Nine :) But I don't want to.

I understand that a group of intelligent people getting together to celebrate their intelligence is an admirable concept. However, they place too much emphasis on a test which has too many shortcomings. You can study for an IQ test (though I have seen many Mensa members claiming you can't - mistaken at best, misguided defence and deliberate lies at worst). An IQ test can be highly variable depending on testing circumstances. Previous learning experiences can affect the test results hugely.

IQ tests should be rounded to the nearest 20 points to be applicable to the real world :) I'd accept that as a reasonable interpretation of someone's level of learning combined with innate intelligence. I don't accept that it IQ tests measure innate intelligence alone, and that this is stable over a lifetime. It just doesn't hold with basic scientific findings.

Now a society based on a general interest in fun intellectual activities would be nice to belong to. But mostly Mensa comes across as logic puzzles mixed with snobbish wankery :)

The article author responds

[shadowkeeper]

Hey, all. This is Matthew Baldwin, and I wrote the linked article. I'd like to address a couple of comments I've seen mentioned here.

First, all of the games on this list were released in the year 2004. Older games, like Settlers of Catan, Carcassonne, etc. were on previous lists and that's why they don't appear.

Second, I agree that this guide does not list "best games" -- it's not intended to, as I hope I made clear. My favorite games include Puerto Rico, Age of Steam, Power Grid, Tigris and Euphrates, etc. But if you give Age of Steam as a gift to a non-gamer they will never, never play it. (Unless you play it with the first four times -- and if you're going to do that haven't you really just purchased a game for yourself?) Worse, if they do play it, there's a very good chance they will give up halfway through and become completely disenchanted with the hobby -- the next time you pull out Coloretto at a bar they might recoil, fearing another "complicated game." Trust me: I gave out my share of "Princes of Florence" before I realized this fact.

G3s are games that bridge the gap between what people are familiar with and the best games out there. Ticket To Ride, for instance, has a core system that people immediately understand (since it's essentially a modified rummy), but adds a board element that's reminiscent of, say, Wildlife Adventure, or even the 18xx series. Get them hooked on that and you can spring Amun-Re on them next year.

wiz-war

[Tibet Sprague]

This game never made it to the big time but will always remain one of my favorites. It's fairly simple, doesn't take a whole day to play (just 45 minutes to an hour), is a good mix of luck and strategy (all the best games are), and can create some hilarious moments. It also has endless possibility for "modding" through the creation of new cards, boards, etc. A new edition has been in the works forever now and may never happen but it would be a fantastic ebay find.

Days of Wonder

[Obiwan Kenobi]

Days of Wonder just produce some amazing stuff, including the heralded Memoir '44, which was recently released, along with a bunch of others that me and my wife can't get enough of.

Mystery of the Abbey is like a thinking man's/geek's version of Clue. Instead of that boring ole rag of a board game, you get an intricate and well designed whodunit that has strategy and tactics involved as to who finds out what and how to play the game to win. This is a favorite in our household and whenever we have a gettogether it's the first board game pulled out.

Ticket to Ride is another Days of Wonder production, designed by a frenchman I believe, who ironically created a game about US train lines around the early 1900's. You have a set # of trains and must build them in tandem across the country. You must connect certain cities according to your "tickets" you recieve at the beginning of the game, always giving you a goal and with multiple paths to each city there is strategy involved as far as how you connect them and by what color (each route is defined by color). It gets more in-depth and is very fun/interesting and fast paced to boot. The younger kids in the family really like this one as its color-based, easily followed, and easy to learn.

As far as other games, we love card games. Bang! is hands down the best multi-player card game I've ever played. Take that as you may, but I've played my share and it is awesome stuff. When a friend/family memeber asks us what we want to play, it's always Bang! Great mechanics, interesting roles to play, fun and funny to boot. There are some expansions to it (about a dozen cards each) to throw some variety to the game, but we've not needed those just yet. This is an absolute must-buy.

Queen's Necklace is another Days of Wonder production and is very cool. I know, a guy saying that playing a card game based on jewelry is cool, but it's a blast and is still fun with just 2 players (me and my wife play it occassionally). Easy to learn, hard to master, plenty of strategy and lots of enjoyment to be had.

Lastly I'll mention that Cheap Ass Games is a treasure trove of goodness, particularly Kill Dr. Lucky. This is a game that happens -before- Clue. Instead of figuring out who died and how, you actually get to kill that person! Of course, he's the luckiest guy ever, so it takes awhile and each person chases the good Doc around the mansion in an attempt to finally kill him in a variety of ways.

I think my favorite "Foiled!" card that showed up as I tried to Kill Dr. Lucky said something like "And suddenly...you felt not so fresh."

Hilarious, fun, and cheap!

Hope this helps :)

Re:Days of Wonder

[mav[LAG]]

Lastly I'll mention that Cheap Ass Games is a treasure trove of goodness, particularly Kill Dr. Lucky.

Save Dr. Lucky by the same guys is even better. Dr Lucky is on the Titanic and you have to try and save him while the ship is sinking, deck by deck. Very simple rules, very deep tactics. And there are optional forfeits if you use any Kill Dr Luckyisms during play :)

Re:Days of Wonder

[herderofcats]

An online version of Ticket To Ride is available as part of a trial free month at Skotos -- they also have online versions of Fist of Dragonstones (an auction game), Queen's Necklace (a card game), and Gang of Four (a A**hole variant card game).

You can also play these online if you a supporting RPGnet member.

-- Herder of Cats

Dog Eat Dog, Illuminati, Formula De, et al.

[bjorn74]

Dog Eat Dog is a game where you control one company or a conglomerate trying to embezzle enough money to win the game. The big problem? Embezzling is against the rules. If you're caught the company has to pay a fine. You pollute to set up defensive strategies and in the end return to the 1980's. Ain't it great? Who can leave out Steve Jackson's game that caused so many problems with the government? Illuminati is a tried and true Geek Game. Formula De was introduced to me last spring. I hear it's popular, but I don't know anyone else who plays. I don't like watching racing, but this game really makes it interesting. I highly recommend getting it out if you have any NASCAR fans in the family.

Acquire is great

[cschmidt]

I really enjoy playing Acquire. The rules are very simple and it's easy to learn but the game play is fast and challenging.

in America

[Anonymous Coward]

only old people play boardgames

in korea only old people play video games

in japan only people play games

in soviet russia board games YOU!

in outer space: All yr gameboard belong to us

in stars wars only natalie portman pours hot grits on you

in slashdot only AC's post trolls like this

FRAG!

[RedMagus77]

Wow, suprised no one has mentioned Frag yet. Even among a group of normal people, frag has that magic ability to pull people together just to frag off the guy in the lead, just like in a real FPS! Other grand board games: -- Munchkin, a great way to introduce people to playing RPGs (although it's mostly the unsavory elements, it at least peaks the interest) -- Orcs At The Gates, best played with people who throw quotes around "You take a full blast of Acid dragon breath to the face, causing you to stumble backwards off a 300ft. cliff and into a pool of lava..." "Do I survive? I have +1 armor"

Carcassonne

[Kraegar]

The first game I've played that I enjoy more then the Settlers of Catan. http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/822 (Both Settlers and Carcassonne are incredibly fun, go get them now if you've never played it)

Re:Carcassonne

[Cheerio Boy]

This is a fantastic game! Especially with the add-ons to make the island bigger.

My friends and I spent several long hours playing this game a few months ago and enjoyed every minute of it.

A word of note - this is one of those "screw your neighbor" types of games where it's easy to hose the another person to your advantage. Thos of you that love in-game politics should feel right at home. ;-)

Funagain is slashdotted

[gigowiz]

We're sorry, but the awards lists are temporarily unavailable due to drastically increased traffic. The lists should be available again shortly, but in the meantime please feel free to browse our site to find the World's Best Selection of Board and Card Games.

GIGOwiz

Re:Funagain is slashdotted

[narcc]

Don't try to connect to the site, that's impossible. Only try to realize the truth: There is no server.

Re:Funagain is slashdotted

[glass_window]

use this link: http://www.funagain.com/control/bestsellerlist and then you can get to the home page by clicking on their logo.

Re:Funagain is slashdotted

[gigowiz]

Hi Slashdot. Please either type in our address directly, or visit us later when we weathered most of the extra traffic.

Regards,
Funagain.com

GIGOwiz

Re:Funagain is slashdotted

[glass_window]

OK, they won't even let you do that. Fine, if they want to be like that, just google them: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&c2coff=1&q=funa gain+games&spell=1 and then click the link for their site.

Re:Funagain is slashdotted

[glass_window]

yea yea yea, i realized that. Silly people just blocked any refers from slashdot. How nice of them.

Fun Games

[lucky130]

I'd suggest playing Acquire (http://www.gamepile.com/3m01.html) and/or Carcassonne (http://www.gotdice.com/carcassonne.htm).

Re:Board Games that Teach Human Rights

[Anonymous Coward]

Family Pastimes is a company that makes non-competitive boardgames. Many of the games are designed for children, but are also enjoyable for adults. Some are designed specifically for ages 12 and up -- Explorers, Power Blackout, and New America are just a few.

Best game so far...

[Anonymous Coward]

Best game so far is:
"Slashdot Funagain's Server". :)

Games 100

[Anonymous Coward]

Another listing of board games to try is the
Games Magazine Buyer's Guide. Funagain has that listed on it too. I'd provide the actual link, but we appear to be making their server cry... You ought to be able to pick up a paper copy of the buyer's guide at any decent bookstore though. They list 200 games, I think... board/card games and electronic games, divided by genre.

My suggestions are pretty much ones already listed...

Settlers of Catan,
Puerto Rico,
Apples to Apples,
just about anything by Cheapass Games,
Munchkin (for RPG geeks)

Domaine (by the guy who created Settlers),

and my personal favorite, if you've got a twisted sense of humor:
Nuclear War by Flying Buffalo.

First rule of finding a good non-traditional board game... don't set a foot in Wal-Mart, Target, or Toys-R-Us...

Second rule, don't be surprised if the price runs up into the $50 dollar range or higher. Hey, that's what most new electronic games cost anyways. And a board game is much more playable, assuming you've got 2-3 friends who are interested.

Settlers of Catan (addictive!)

[ackthpt]

Discovered this one over the summer and played with some friends online. Would love an actual board game version. Great strategy game, especially since you're forced to barter with other players to succeed, there's lots of strategy involved.

This is one of those games that really draws people in. A simple set of rules and the capacity to screw others while trying not to get screwed yourself have made this a favorite among my friends and I. There's some travel versions, too, which make it handy to take camping or have a two player game on flights.

We've recently played the new Mayfair Russian Rails, which is another on the Empire Builder theme. The fall of communism makes for a rude wake-up if you're hauling demands for 'chance' cards, which change character from communism to capitalism. Good stuff and worth the many hours devoted to playing them.

Killer Bunnies!!

[Comrade64]

Dagnabbit...can't get to the link.

Killer Bunnies and the Quest for the Magic Carrot should be on there if it isn't!

I first played it last weekend and I'm hooked!! Now to get my friends hooked!

It's one of the freshest games I've played in a long time. It's cute and cuddley until you smear the other bunnies over the floor to get the carrot! Muahahahahaha! www.magiccarrot.com for more info.

(No..I do NOT work for the company, but the game is very, very fun. So I'd like more of you to play so I can slaughter your bunnies!)

May not be a board game... but

[Ced_Ex]

I've always found 52 Pick Up to be a rather entertaining game to play!

Absolute Balderdash

[Mister_IQ]

Absolute Balderdash is our favorite. Not many people have heard of it, but they always go away loving it after playing a round. It's Balderdash (or Dictionary, or any of the other basic "make up a definition for this word" games) with extra categories. So each round could be one of:

• Here's a name, make up what s/he is famous for
• Here's a movie title, make up a short plot synopsis
• Here's a date, make up what happened on that day
• Here's an acronym, make up what it stands for
• Here's a word, make up a definition

Each needs a slightly different skill. The "what happened on this date" answers need to be time-appropriate, the "what is this person famous for" is completely open ended and is usually quite bizarre, etc. Great game.

Nazi Rules Trivial Pursuit

[ArmenTanzarian]

Invented by a friend back in college. The regular rules of Trivial Pursuit, except you have to drink a quarter of a beer for each question you answer incorrectly and finish your beer for a failed attempt at a pie piece.

Why Nazi rules? Well, you have to answer exactly as it says on the card. If you answer "New York Yankees" and the card says "The New York Yankees", drink. Most games end in physical brawls.

SCENE IT!

[spoco2]

Come on, what a sensational game this is... great for all movie loving geeks... not only is it a board game, but it has a DVD as well... heaps of movie clips, great questions and miny games, and the best part... the countdown timer with the Who wants to be a Millionaire like music complete with 'dadadada dum dum daaaah!' end bit.

Love it!

Thud!

[Doc_Linux]

Thud! It's a Discworld boardgame.

Quarto

[wulfbyte]

I bought Quarto several years ago and have enjoyed it often with people ranging from my (at the time) 5 yo son, to colleagues from work. "Quarto has a 4x4 board and 16 pieces. Each piece has four dichotomous attributes: color, height, shape and consistency. So each piece is either black or white, tall or short, square or round, and hollow or solid. The object is to place the fourth piece in a row where all four pieces have at least one attribute in common. The twist is your opponent gets to choose the piece you place on the board every turn." - From: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/viewitem.php3?gameid= 681

Speak for yourself

[Davorama]

Like a bowling ball with your name engraved upon it, these make great gifts for your significant other.

LoL, I can just see the look on my wife's face now. Thank god, for all our sake she isn't married to you! :-)

Re:Bad list !!! Use the offficial gamers database

[mjwills]

That is a good list, but nowhere near as active as http://www.boardgamegeek.com/top50.htm

Runebound

[Kalkin]

Play Talisman? Do you like the beer-and-pretzels, hack-slash/monopoly feel?

Try Runebound. Every time I host a game night where Runebound is an option, it's a full table of 6. (As a caution, it's slightly more complex to get into.)

Disclaimer: I am not an employee of Fantasy Flight Games.

Dark Tower

[Donkey5555]

I loved this game when I was little

Re:Dark Tower

[lifeguard1020]

I am lucky enough to still own an operating copy of Dark Tower...and still play it on a somewhat regular basis...I love it...the music just gets stuck in my head... Dan

Zombies

[randalx]

The game Zombies has been a big hit with all my friends. It looks like it's for kids but we're all in our 30s and get a good kick out of it. What's fun is that you win by screwing the other player. Lot's of laughs.

There are also additional add-on packs Zombies 2, 3, 3.5 and 4 so it must be selling well!

Starfarers of Catan

[slash_noodle]

Here's a fun game, that I was introduced to by a group of friends. Not sure if its shares any similarity with Settlers of Catan besides the 'Catan' in the name. However, its fun ,and in our gaming experience has a lot of replay value.

Cults Across America

[Inebrius]

While it always takes more than an hour, Cults Across America is a great game, particularly if you have 3-5 players.

The object of the game is to either form a chain of controlled cities from the east to the west coast, or to earn enough victory points (from victory cards) to win.

The game involves strategy and some amount of luck. With more than 2 players, it often involves alliances and backstabbing.

Like Risk, you need to cover your front lines with enough troops (cult members, priests, tanks, and weapons) and spread out. The more territory you control, the more cult members you can recruit, or sacrifice in a war against an opposing cult controlled city. Unlike risk, you earn a certain amount of money each round that you can spend to buy extra cultists, weapons, trucks/tanks, or even a death ray gun.

It takes a little bit to learn, but this game is one of the best.

History of the World - and others not to be missed

[andrewbaldwin]

If you've never played this you've missed a treat.

Played in 7 rounds (epochs) you need to gain (and keep territory; opportunities for 'stitching up' your fellow players -- great fun (lasts around 3 hours).

Other great board games (which we've played for over 12 years without tiring of them) include:

Kingmaker - England at end of 15th Century - Wars of the Roses. Great game but can sometimes drag on.

Plague - a really wacky (if slightly tasteless game of gathering corpses in Black Death Weymouth (a town on the south coast of England - the game has a passing acquaintance with real history). Whoever created it had a real sense of humour!

Brittania - Britain from romans to normans - manage your invaders / settlers to get the right areas at the right time.

Civilization -- brilliant game but a real 'all nighter!' - good mix of competition / cooperation / trading / development. Not rlated to the all time brilliant Sid meier game of the same name (but there are several similarities)

Flux - a wacky little card game where the rules, and the goal of the game change all the time

I could go on.... as a games fan I spend most Sunday nights with a group of friends, a board game, several cups of tea and many Jaffa cakes (a chocolate and orange biscuit popular in the UK) -- GREAT ;-)

BTW I have no connection with the makers of any of the above.
Don't know how easilyany of the above can be obtained outside the UK.

Play Settlers Online!

[SimonDorfman.com]

Settlers is awesome. Play online with the java applet version or with the open source (windows only) version.

The Farming Game

[deejer]

This game is very realistic. (for a board game)

You can go bankrupt pretty easy. Having grown up on a farm, it is amazing how this captures the essense of farming in the modern era.

The Farming Game

The Dot (Box) Game

[dman123]

So this isn't an actual board game unless you count a piece of paper as a board. At least it is free.

Take a large piece of paper and make a grid of dots that leaves enough room for a single legible letter inside the confines of each square (3/8" x 3/8"?). Make sure the paper is at least 20" x 30" to get enough of a grid. There is only a minor peanalty for trying to use equivalent metric units.

Everyone knows how to play this one, right? Connect two vertically or horizontally adjacent dots and write in your initial if you happen to complete a 1 x 1 square. Repeat until you cannot complete a square with just one line. The winner is the one with the most initialed squares when the grid is 100% filled in with squares.

The game works best when you see your opponent almost every day for just a few minutes at a time. Perfect for killing time in between (or during) school classes.

Reid Strand, if you are out there, I demand a rematch from our game in Ms. Moran's french class!

Something to keep in mind..

[Senjutsu]

Is that the yahoo Go Beginers sections is full of intermediate assholes who like to slum it and who will make fun of you for making rookie mistakes. There are better places to play, with far fewer asswipes.

Re:Betrayal at House on the Hill - GAME SPOILER

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope. This game is slightly diffrent. There is no guarente that you'll become evil. Or do you even know what the goal of the evil person will be untill 'the change' (there are 50 posibilites and one is selected each game). It sounds like the makers of the game realized this limitation and have corrected it. But then again I've only played 4 or 5 times.

Not board games, but still fun.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not board games, but still fun:

Nuclear War, Nuclear Escalation and Nuclear Proliferation.
Munchkin and Star Munchkin.
Give me the Brain.
Naval War.
Dungeons and Dragons.

Gobblet

[Anonymous Coward]

I ran across a game called Gobblet recently. It's not Go (the ultimate board game, of course), but it's fun.

A friend taught it to a bunch of science grad students at a party, and they played for hours. Had to tear it away from them at the end of the night.

Re:Gobblet

[richyoung]

We have Gobblet Jr. and my five-year old is a fierce opponent. It's a great game. I think grown-ups have a disadvantage because it feels like tic-tac-toe, but punishes certain tic-tac-toe strategies.

Ricochet Robot

[mrcubehead]

Great 2-4 person puzzler game.

Junta !

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know in which country it is available, I am french, but it is a great game. Be the president or a minister of some country sponsored by a "big" power, play with the budget, assassinate the other players, overthrow the president (the junta) and most of all, pile up those nice pesos in your swiss account to win.

It is at least 15 years old, but still as fresh as when it came out.

Games of a sort for very young children.

[Slaveway]

I just purchased for my Nephew the standard Alphabet blocks.
What learning game would the Slashdot crowd suggest for a 2 year old child??
My thoughts were the blocks would be great for my Brother and Sister in law to teach spelling to my Nephew.

Re:Games of a sort for very young children.

[shadowkeeper]

Go Away Monster: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/game/6714

Modern Art by Reiner Knizia

[irontiki]

Modern Art is a great game link. Players represent competing art galleries and buy and sell art. Depending on what is purchased and what is sold the value of the art varies dramatically. Buying a piece can turn out to be a waste or turn a huge profit but you have to keep in mind how the money will add up in your competitors hand later as well as how the piece shifts the value of the other art in everyone's collections. It's endlessly fascinating with usually very close games that differ radically with different mixes of players.

Note: the original is in German though it's also available in Enlgish.

The fun of /.

[Nalez]

We're sorry, but the awards lists are temporarily unavailable due to drastically increased traffic. The lists should be available again shortly, but in the meantime please feel free to browse our site to find the World's Best Selection of Board and Card Games. http://www.funagain.com/control/productaward?award _year=2005&award_type=GMMAG

Serious strategy games here

[s1234d]

Here is the top ten list as rated by a lot of serious gamers: http://boardgamegeek.com/top10.htm

My Top 13 Games for 2004

[ShannonA]

Here's the list of the top 13 games I've reviewed in 2004: 13 RPGnet Reviews. They are: Alhambra (American release), Cthulhu 500, Four Dragons, Goa, Maharaja, Memoir '44, Modern Art (re-release), Rumis, San Juan, Ticket to Ride (plus a few supplements), and Tongiaki.

All received a 9 or 10 out of 10.

Board Game Gift Guides - Another one

[hapycamper]

Well, the GamerDad Unplugged Board Game Gift Guide comes on on Monday, Dec. 13th... watch for it at: http://www.gamerdad.com/

Keep yourself amused by looking at last year's - http://www.gamerdad.com/modules.php?op=modload&nam e=News&file=article&sid=424&mode=thread&order=0&th old=0 They're all still good games.

BoardGameRatings.com's Games of the Year

[GamerGuy]

A game review site, Boardgameratings.com, released their list of the best board games of the year: http://www.boardgameratings.com I think Ticket to Ride is definitely one of the best games to come out in a long time. Memoir '44 is also really cool.

CHESS

[Anonymous Coward]

CHESS*! Play chess! The 229th best board game of all time! The game with the funny name, "chess", will provides hours of entertainment, and ranks right up there with:

"Was Sticht!" (232)
"Fische Fluppen Frikadellen" (224)
"Schnappchen Jagd" (223)

My friends and I love to play "chess", even though we know it's not quite as good as GURPS (198) or Star Fleet Battles (203)! Even computers love chess! Did you know that the favorite game of IBM's game-playing computer, "Deep Blue", was chess?

So, when you've finally purchased the 228 games better than chess, including "Star Wars: Epic Duels" (186) and "Strat-O-Matic Baseball" (129) you might as well pick up just one more: CHESS! The 229th greatest game OF ALL TIME!

* - the author of this post is in no way associated with the makers of chess.

Just my 2 games

[Anonymous Coward]

Two great games:

Cranium - best if you like team games and laughing at others

Abalone - Great strategy game!

Scruples, Psychologizer, Articulate

[Bifurcati]

A fabulous game is Scruples (or "A Question of Scruples" formally.) It poses moral dilemmas such as

You scrape a car on the way out of the carpark. No-one sees you. Do you leave a note?

and

A magazine offers you $10,000 for a nude photo you have of your ex-lover. Do you accept?

You have to ask these questions of your friends, and predict what they would do. You can also challenge them if you think they're bluffing, and argue your case to the rest of the players who must decide who they believe. (We actually play it where everyone tells the truth; we find it makes for more interesting after dinner conversations.) The Millenium edition is great, or you can pick up older editions on Ebay for very little (most questions still fine, although occasionally one is a little outdated.)

"Psychologzier" is another game in a similar vein, and is great fun too, but is out of print. You can still pick it up on Ebay every couple of weeks or so, though. Well worth it! Oh, and "ImagineIff" is great too. (Even if my mathematician friends call it "Imagine if and only if"...)

Articulate is another fabulous game, a sort of verbal Pictionary somewhat akin to Taboo and is absolutely hilarious. Great fun!

Finally, you should try Killer Bunnies. Hilarious when you've got a group of friends, and the designers have put a lot of work into making this quirky game fun. Lots of expansion packs, too!

Re:Scruples, Psychologizer, Articulate

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with Scruples is that it depends on how others see you, not whether you are telling the truth or not, to succeed.

I got it as a kid, and at home, my family wouldn't believe me when I said I would do things in a "good" or "nice" way. At school, my classmates wouldn't believe me when I said I would do things truly bad/devious/evil.

It sucked :) I was being completely honest the whole time, but my schoolmates saw me as purely good, and my family saw me as purely evil...

Strangely enough, I still have that problem (between work, and home) :)

Classic? Board Games

[hsmyers]

Well Go has already been mentioned, then of course there is Chess, followed by in no particular order Blackgammon and Dominoes. A curious thing about these is that there is no upper limit on how much you can spend on a really nice set!! Perhaps the lack of ceiling price itself is a usful definition of 'Classic'?

Games Workshop's Talisman

[snuf23]

This is a classic and now out of print fantasy game. As a kid I owned it and all the expansions. Sad to say its out of print and goes for an ungodly amount of money on Ebay.
I'm especially saddened that Games Workshop has no intention of doing a new version - leaving my only options the $100+ used copies.

You can find more information here:

Talisman board game

Re:Games Workshop's Talisman

[timftbf]

Don't worry, Talisman is a great game only when viewed through rose-tinted glasses. I loved it when I was 13 too. There are much, much better games available for much less money - check the Geek (http://www.boardgamegeek.com/) for lots of detail.

TTFN,
Tim.

Great Card Games

[tryclaus]

If you like two player card games, Dr. Reiner Knizia has a bunch of good ones, and a great one called Lost Cities -- usually one of the highest rated card games out there. If you want to play it online, check out http://www.flexgames.com/ ... They have an online java version of it for free online play... Enjoy! Troy

WAT did u DOOO....

[goodzilla]

Hi, Slashdot. Until the traffic dies down a bit, please either type in our address directly (www.funagain.com), or visit us later when we have weathered most of the storm. If you're looking for the latest Games Magazine yearly Games 100 list, (mentioned in the Slashdot article), please visit our site (again, by typing in our web address), click on "More Special Features..." in about the middle of the page, and click on the "GAMES Magazine's Annual list of the 100 best games" link. While you're at it, check out the rest of our catalog, too. If you're new to board games, you'll be in for a surprise at the incredibly fun games out there. Regards, Funagain.com

And for the online version...

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.floc.net/dpjudge/ Check out the payola varient; It is Diplo on steroids.

List of my favourites w/ reasons

[kn0tw0rk]

Being an avid gamer, I thought I'd list my favourites as suggestions for people.

Peurto Rico : Resource building game : 3-5 players : approx 1 hour per game : an intricate and balanced game where each players actions affect other players.

San Juan : Card game : 2-4 players : approx 30 mins per game : A simplified verion of Peurto Rico done using cards.

Citadels : Card game : 2-9 players : 15-45mins per game : a good game when there is a lot of players

Roborally : board game : 2-8 players : 30+mins per game : programming a bot to destroy other players bots has never been so much fun. The only problem is getting a hold of this game.

Carcassonne : tile game : 2-5 players : 45-60 mins per game : nice and simple with out the expansions.

Guilotine : card game : 2-5 players: 15-30 mins per game : simple and amusing. A good time filler before or after other games

Tantrix : tile game : 2-4 players : 30-45 mins : will twist your brain in knots

I guess the main thing to consider is how many people are likely to be getting to gether to play games and how much thinking they want to do.

I think most of the new games that are coming out of european games companies are very good.

The interesting part in "Diplomacy"

[alexo]

is not the rules, which are pretty straightforward, but the negotiation periods between the moves.

Since the game is designed for 7 people (the "official" rules can accommodate a lower number but less than 5 is not a good idea), there is no luck involved and all the units move simultaneously, you cannot gain an advantage without teaming up with other players.

However, the rules for the "diplomacy periods" are all but nonexistent. You can make pacts, short term or long term agreements. You can announce your alliances or keep them secret. You can keep your end of the bargain or break it. You can play one group against the other, etc.

And in the end, there is just one winner.

Why not Trebuchets instead, eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

http://tinyurl.com/3wvcw

Now that's what I'm talking about. I'm just not into board games any more. I want something that lets me exude testosterone and throw things.

18xx Railroad Games

[cognophile]

I enjoy playing "18xx" railroad games such as 1856 and 1870 by Mayfair Games. 1830 by Avalon Hill is also good, if you can find it.

These are multiplayer strategy games with typical play times of 4-6 hours or higher. Players invest in and operate railroad companies, with the goal of making the most money.

During the coarse of a game, train technology periodically improves and railroad track gets built across the landscape. In addition to the operation of railroad companies, players also engage in stock market speculation (or manipulation ...). Once the initial turn order is decided, there is no "chance" element in the game.

Re:Do not pass "Go": view from the contrarian

[d.valued]

Here's the secret to buying any - and I do mean ANY - game:

Make sure that there's someone to play with!

I mean, I may have a beautiful chess set in my basement. But what f***ing good does it do me if I can't find someone to play with?

Risk is infamous in this regard, since apocryphally games could last forever. The new Risk games, 2210 and Godstorm, have a limited number of turns to preclude this. Still, a full game runs nearly 3 hours. Can you find a cadre of people to do this with?

How about RPGs? Expand the imagination, do stuff you normally can't... but can you find people willing to invest the time?

How about Munchkin? It's a great game, with a bunch of expansions and base sets, which SRPs for about 25 per base set, 15 per expansion, for a grand total of about USD 160 for a full, complete, maniacal, 'blender' game. Backstabbing, wheeling and dealing, and insane humor. Hard to get people together though..

Hell... even Go can have this problem.

(Aside: Go kicks ass. You can understand someone by how they play Go, or so I've been told. Then again, that also holds true for other games... like poker..... ;)

(Aside: Yes, I know several games can be played online. It's an entirely different experience handling bits than handling stones, pawns, or cards. Real life is underrated. The previous comes from a hardcore geek who has spent more than half his life online. )

Great Gifts?

[pegasustonans]

Like a bowling ball with your name engraved upon it, these make great gifts for your significant other.

"Hey Honey, here's what you've always wanted, a bowling ball with my name engraved it."

I would have to buy protective gear before starting this conversation...

Really fun board games

[Anonymous Coward]

My personal favourites are a series of games constructed by Don & Co; Gipf, Dvonn, Tamsk, Zèrtz, and Yinsh. Easy to learn, fun to play, difficult to master, limited in length (time-wise).

A friend introduced me to Gipf during a lunch hour, and I was almost instantly hooked on it.

Horsetrade (Kuhhandel)

[Incadenza]

Great strategy game, especially since you're forced to barter with other players to succeed, there's lots of strategy involved.

For people that like the bartering more than anything else, I recommended Kuhhandel. Don't let the goofy pictures set you off: this game can be very hard to play, with the right (determined to win) fellow players.
There's a Dutch* downloadable DIY version so you can try the game for the cost of a couple of color prints.

* There's no text on the cards, only the instructions are Dutch. But you will find PDF's of the rules at boardgamegeek anyway.

Re:Board Games that Teach Human Rights

[ynohoo]

one of the beauties of Go is its handicap system, which enables players of different strengths to still enjoy an interesting game.

Cosmic Encounter and others

[Finkbug]

Cosmic Encounter is a legendary game. As brilliant a design as Magic: The Gathering without the crack hit payment. I first came across it when I saw people playing with handmade sets. (The game had been many years out of print.) It's currently online in free/pay form at http://www.cosmicencounter.com/screens/home.html. The play is fast, deep, and silly. Four player rounds last at most twenty minutes. The rules are simple and each player is randomly assigned an alien race that can break one rule. A single Macron unit counts as four, another race can force negotiations, a third can win with low cards (and lose with high). Support this game. It is friggin great and the online implementation is too.

Can't say I recommend them given they are out of print, overly complicated or both but my favorites have always been Junta, Stellar Conquest, Starfleet Battles (made into a series of buggy PC games), Down With the King, Chase, and Ipswich.

Junta is a hillariously frantic trading game, Stellar Conquest a strange semi-limited movement numbers game. Starfleet Battles is unbelievably complex and simulates everything from marine combat on exploding planets to strategic war between dozens of galaxy spanning civilizations down to individual ships. [Ie., Derke Smart has been trying to write it for years. Derek Smart Derek Smart Derek Smart] Down With the King is...oh, heck, there is a table to roll on while visiting the funeral of the player you've just assassinated and results range from impressing the nobles to getting drunk and falling into the grave. Chase was a slick pure strategy release by TSR that got no attention and Ipswich is a similarly dead, brutally difficult word game.

For the truly obsessive, find Magic Realm.

Oldy but a goody

[the.pornlord]

how 'bout ro-sham-bo (sp?)

Tactics & Strategy (Railroad Dice, Blockout, F

[Norgan]

Hi there,
i could go on for hours :-) but my current favourites are

* RailRoad Dice (http://www.railroaddice.de/) - a great strategy board game, a mix from "eurostyle"game & railroad game. 90min+ for players, for whom "settlers form catan - knights and towns expansion (or so)" is an fun game instead of "too complex"
(For sceptics - have a look at http://www.fwtwr.com/ for a "play by mail" version)

* BlockOut : 1 Rule, 1 Starting-Position, 1 Ending-Condition, 2 - 4 Players, awesome shortlived game, fun tactics and amazing

* Feudo : Brandnew, Complex Rules, Mix between Military & Boardgame. Definitely has potential. A Review can be found with http://www.boardgamegeek.com/

If this is to strategic for you, check back with me

Greetings, Norgan

Re:Board Games that Teach Human Rights

[Echemus]

Have you ever played "Once Upon a time"?

That is a game that achieves more enjoyment from playing than just winning alone. Games I have been finished quickly are not as enjoyable as the longer more involved ones.

Cross Map Roadway

[SeanDuggan]

^_^ Odd you should say that, as I seem to remember that I won my first time playing by this strategy. It was either that or something involving amassing a large amount of soldiers... years ago, and the game was interrupted a few times by teary calls from an ex-girlfriend (It would have been our two-year anniversary). But then again, my family is the type, when starting a game, to ask for the rules and quickly read the entire set for things like that.

Junta

[gfreeman]

Surprised that Junta hasn't had a mention. I've spent many a weekend playing this game when we were supposed to be playing Diplomacy.

Fond, fond memories of this game, even though I haven't played it in over 10 years.

Board not square

[Gathers]

Go is a very nice choice of game, but a go board is not square!
To appear square when you look at them they are actually made a little longer then they are wide. (usually 454.5 mm by 424.2 mm)

Also the black stones are a tiny bit larger then the white ones because the white ones would appear as bigger otherwise :)
Look at http://senseis.xmp.net/?EquipmentDimensions for more info, and come play Gathers on KGS!

It can be

[Plecostomus]

Once players get more expirienced, then yes the Allies due tend to win more and more games. But newer players will usually get stomped by the Axis for whatever reason. Some ingenuity may be required to balance the game if you see fit, but my pals have been playing for awhile now and it's always a close game for us (we also switch up the teams, which helps to everyone happy). What I really like about the game is that it can become a social thing, where you have soem buddies over for drinks, junkfood, and A&A. The process of playing is almost always more entertaining than the outcome.

Get Cheapass.com games 20% cheaper at funagain.com

[ClioCJS]

Why pay $5 for LightSpeed (a great game, I have two) when you can pay $4?

http://funagain.com/

Some missing of points going on here...

[Thedalek]

I see an awful lot of posts saying things like "(My Favorite Game) rocks! They should have included it."

True, your favorite game may indeed rock, but was it first released (or reprinted after a prolonged out-of-print period) this year? That's what these lists are about.

Don't get me wrong. Settlers of Catan, Puerto Rico, Princes of Florence, El Grande, Power Grid, Goa, etc., all make fantastic gifts.

On the other hand, why has there been no mention on either list or here on /. of War of the Ring. Don't be decieved: It is not simply "Lord of the Rings Axis & Allies." This is a very deep, hugely detailed game which can duplicate nearly every situation from the books.

How has Stratego not been mentioned?

[jambarama]

This is like one of the greatest strategy, guessing and expected value games ever! Stratego rocks, there are many neat optional rules, etc.

Fill or Bust

[BauerFan1]

I recently got hooked on this great dice and card game. Anyone who enjoys gambling will love this game. It involves acquiring points by rolling different combinations of the dice. As long as you don't 'bust'(roll no points), you can keep on rolling and adding up more points, but as soon as you bust you lose all of your points for that round. As in gambling, it's about knowing when to stop and knowing when to risk it. It is a simple game, yet very fun, especially in groups of 4 or more.

Sucking it out?

[Tribbin]

Sucking?

Pissing!

[Tribbin]

You piss in the hole.

Then the ball floats out!

GamerDad Unplugged Gift Guide

[hapycamper]

Here's the 2004 edition of the GamerDad Gift Guide to Board and Card Games