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LinuxOne's "LinuxMac 0.9" Investigated
The following was written by Slashdot reader Peter C. Norton
Scott Ananian (cananian@mit.edu) and I have been working with the LinuxOne "LinuxMac 0.9" product here at LinuxWorld Expo to figure out what's going on with the product, what it is, and whether there is value in their product. Scott was particularly interested and well informed about Macintosh hardware, since he works on maintaining the part of the kernel that supports Linux on Mac 68030 hardware (the old mac se/30, some the mac ii's, etc.).
In a way, we're following up on the information at: this page.
You'll see an assertion from a representative of LinuxOne that the LinuxMac product is a result of proprietary technology developed in a prior business by a company owned by the founder of LinuxOne. I can conclusively assert that based on using the pre-release of this product that this is currently completely false. Also, the program claims to be version 1.0, though the floppy says 0.9.
First of all, the floppy that they are selling to users contains a single RPM package, whose contents are as follows:
/root/Desktop/LinuxMac.kdelnk
/usr/local/bin/CLFormatter
/usr/local/bin/CommonLink
/usr/local/bin/cl
/usr/local/bin/cm
/usr/local/bin/hformat
/usr/share/common-link/linuxone-logo.bmp
The main program is CommonLink. Notice the "hformat" command? That's the utility that comes with the HFS Utilities that LinuxOne's representative claimed isn't even on their development network. However:
[root@col /root]# /usr/local/bin/hformat --license
This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2 of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful, but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the GNU General Public License for more details.
You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License along
with this program; if not, write to the Free Software Foundation, Inc.,
675 Mass Ave, Cambridge, MA 02139, USA.
[root@col /root]#
There isn't any source code on the floppy, though, and I expect to be talking with LinuxOne about this.
Anyway, the CommonLink application itself is a KDE-based gui that talks launches a mounting application or a formatting application. Each one gives you the option to do these things with a "Windows 95" "Mac" or "Linux" option. The mounting application has no logic internally to mount any media. It calls the system-standard "mount" utility. Scott and I have confirmed this - there is no possibility that we're wrong about this. After mounting the floppy with the mount command, it invokes the KDE File Manager, KFM, to present the floppy to the end user. Conclusion: they wrote a very small gui in C++ to invoke standard utilities.
The second utility, the formatting program, calls the standard linux fdformat utility (a low level formatter to prepare a floppy for any use), and then it calls hformat to put a mac filesystem on it.
If a "quick erase" (ala the windows formatting stuff) is done, then it just runs:
hformat -l MacFloppy /dev/fd0H1440
Though if you put s space in the name after -l it breaks (a beginner's programming error).
Conclusion: This is just another simple gui which uses utilities which are not written, maintained, or contributed to by LinuxOne or its staff.
In short:
The LinuxMac product contains no proprietary technology. It relies on standard linux kernel modules for filesystems (confirmed through testing), and it relies on standard system utilities to access floppies (again, confirmed through testing).
In addition, the utilities are only useable by root. There is no way a user could use these utilities to format or mount a floppy without the root user making changes to the system.
Please let me know if you're interested in the details of the testing, or if you have any other questions.
Last weeks topic - zenophobia went down well
This week we are following it up this IPO bashing.
Saying that the artical was factual and errors have been made by linuxOne in decribing products in the past.
anon cos I'm fucked off with mods without a funny bone.
It's his MOMMA, baby! Get DOWN!
You must be thinking of Peter North.
Code doesn't have to be significant to be proprietary.
Yeah. Look at slashdot for many examples of this. Typically it arrives in the form of "anti-fud" (see the DVD/jlj threads...)
anyway, that's the first thing I thought too. it'd be cool if we could convert somebody like peter norton. :)
Inconvievable!
Inconcievable!
Maybe it's a backhanded slam on norton, which deserves one for its monopolistic union with microsoft, and for perpetuating that pre-1950's mama's boy-wannabe puss they put on each package, in a white smock with a stethascope(?) hanging over his shoulder no less.
In passing, concurrent with the impending downfall of microsoft, competitors were finally breaking into the unbreakable: the microsoft-norton utilities monopoly.
And in California, it's generally illegal.
Oh fer Christ's sake. Get a grip, mon.
Dear Mr. Bottoms.
Can I come and work for you? Will you pay me $$'s? I am serious.
Thank you.
I don't know about "to far [sic]", but he certainly should have known better than to attempt to play "the race card" here on /. Many faults it may have, but racism is not amongst them.
You have probably never been lynched as an African-American...
I doubt he's been lynched as anything other than an African-American, either. Unless he's posting from the grave.
Execution is usually pretty permanent.And as I Non-African-American I can assure you I have never done that to anyone
I doubt many here have. (Imagine extremely wry tone-of-voice.)
Im not Peter Norton, and my views are of my own, not of slashdot or VA Linux Systems
A few things... The article was from a reader, and has nothing to do with slashdot or VA Linux Systems. Slashdot DOES however promote freedom of speech. And the article was from a conserned reader who was expressing this freedom.
Slashdot/VA Linux Systems are not in competition with LinuxOne. Slashdot is a news site, and is covering.. news. LinuxOne's current situation and their busness practices, if I remember correctly, is a form of news.
And finally, PLEASE Don't make this a racial issue. This has nothing to do with race.
<ANTI-RACISM RANT> Besides you are an American.. cut the other crap. I hate racism and only see this as a way for one to seperate ones self from everyone else. Im not about to start calling MY self an 'Indian-German-English-Irish-American' (yes I'm a mutt.. LOL) and I dont understand why you would want to do something like that either. My guts are the same as yours and we are both American. The color of ones skin or ones heritige are irrelevent. The ONLY thing that matters are your views, morals and way of thinking. (read: their mind and thoughts)
Sorry for being so long winded... But This is what you can expect for beinging race into situations like this. </ANTI-RACISM RANT>
You are invited to come out at our expense to review our technology plan going forward. We are moving forward to correct past mistakes and create new software. Is anyone else bothered by this language? I really expected him to say leverage too.
Woo, place the race card...
Btw, in any of the posts mentioning lynching, I think red, black, white, blue smurf, green martian, the Open Source community as a whole doesn't care. We're Equal Opprotunity. I didn't know your skin color till you mentioned it, and neither have any of the posts so far.
Doesn't matter. Still trying to make a quick buck with clueless users.
So when are we all going to get together on some garage roof and demand that Apple sell Macs without an operating system? We did this to Microsoft and I think it's only fair that we now do it to Apple. If there are other choices (Linux) then why should we have to pay extra if all we want is the hardware?
That's an interesting point of view. Are you also saying that if a mechanic were to tell you:
that it would be illegal to tell anyone that he attempted to commit the act of fraud upon you, giving you false information for financial gain? I'm not sure how I see a precedent in U.S. law for making it illegal to report a crime. It certainly would not be libel; despite what the kind of people who are prone to threaten libel suits seem to think, libel is not the act of distributing damaging information about a person, company or other legal entity -- it is the act of knowingly distributing false damaging information against a person or other legal entity. In the United States, at least, I believe that truth is held to be an "absolute defense" against the charges of libel or slander; it may or may not have been illegal to tape the conversation without the knowledge of both parties, but the tape certainly makes it difficult to claim that any of the information distributed was false.
um, I'm new to ly-nucks and G-nome, can someone please tell me how to get started programming in RPM?
hey dumbass, Peter North is a psuedoname for a Porn Star.... w/ a schlong big enough to satisfy even you...
As a caucasion male of varied european-american descent, I am troubled by you being troubled by the term 'lynching,' when used in a wholly non-racial way. Especially in the year 2000, and in a place where racism is not tolerated (Slashdot). Perhaps you're insulted by the word because you think everyone who uses that term is a racist... but doesn't that make you a racist? Perhaps the author of the comment on question was of african-american descent?
Can't we just be reasonable human beings without, as someone else said, "playing the race card?"
2. As a legitimate businessperson who works in finance, I am offended by your company's decision to IPO with no products, no profits, and most troublesome NO CLUE.
I'll let you go back to extolling the virtues of racial harmony (can't use the word 'lynch!'), while simultaneously using profanity. Oh my, I just realised you used the f word! I think I'm offended!
I sent thier sales department a short note FYI. Though I don't want a reply personally, I would like to see if they do have a licence or are in viloation.
Maybe LinuxOne will want to pay them in LinuxOne CDs or in LinuxOne stock? Personally, I'd take the cash.
Clarification: The email went to Troll Tech's sales department.
this page over at linuxone.net, they are posting emails of some people who have sent bad messages to them--doing it under the guise of a flame contest. www.linuxone.net/entries.html
They said hformat -l MacFloppy /dev/fd0H1440 Though if you put s space in the name after -l it breaks (a beginner's programming error).
Well, a beginners error in this article is the failure to note the man page. You can in fact place a space after the -l option. You just have to protect it in quotes.
Anyone notice that the FTP site that you can supposedly get the source from seems to have a pacbell ADSL hostname when you do a reverse lookup? For example: athena% nslookup 63.201.69.114 Server: localhost.mit.edu Address: 127.0.0.1 Name: adsl-63-201-69-114.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net Address: 63.201.69.114 Isn't this illegal?
Haha, I get the last word!
What prompted this response? I don't see that quote anywhere in the parent article.
Who was he? Caesar?
Who appointed you spokesman for all the Anonymous Cowards on this board? YOU, madame, are the ass.
After all arn't day traders trying make money by doing nothing (constructive) too? ThE whole idea of making money by investing it, is that there is risk involved. Day traders serve no more purpose in society than welfare cheats. Fact is, the only time buying shares is a genuine capital investment, is during the initial float offering.
Clinton is not evil. He has a huge sex drive. So what! Now, IF he's proven IN COURT that he raped someone, THEN he should be punished, but remember you are innocent until proven guilty. Kenneth Starr is an evil, evil man, bent on bringing down Clinton because he hates Bill because Bill enjoys sex and Kenneth doesn't. Bill and Hillary are swingers, Hillary's probably bi-sexual. So what! That's their own personal business. Of all the things Starr supposebly had on Clinton, the only thing he could get that would stick was Clinton was an adulterer. The sick thing about the whole affair is Americans have a problem with it, even though Cosmo's studies have shown so are half of Americans.
It's ok to record phone conversations in Arizona as long as at least one of the people (you!) involved in the conversation is aware that the conversation is being recorded. It is not legal to record a conversation between two people who are not aware of the tap. I'm not sure what the laws are in your state, but you should check into that before you let anyone bully you into removing your transcript from the web.
send your rant to LinuxOne's Flame Contest: Here you can tell them directly. http://www.linuxone.net/flames.html
For anyone who's curious, here's the referenced lynching comment: http://slashdot.org/comm ents.pl?sid=00/02/07/078258&cid=15
SHOWING MY NIECE
I couldn't help but be surprised when I found out that my sexy, beautiful niece
knew nothing about sex. I was sure that every date she had in the past year had
wound up with sex. She was, however, totally naive, if I had been hearing the
conversation correctly.
It had started when she came over and told me about her date the previous
night, and about how, in the middle of a movie, her date had grabbed her hand
and put it in his lap, where she could feel his hard dick beneath the fabric.
I listened with intense interest.
"I had no idea that one could get so big," she said.
It wasn't unusual for her to share this with me. Her father, my sister's
husband, had left the family years ago, and I had sort of acted as a surrogate
male influence over the years. She had shared a lot of things with me that few
nieces shared with their uncles. I had even helped her pick out her clothes a
couple of times.
"Well, certainly, Beverly, when a man becomes sexually excited, his penis
grows. It all depends on genetics as to exactly how large it gets."
"Huh?"
I was feeling a little out of place, actually. I thought that perhaps this
should be a conversation for her mother to take care of, instead of me.
"Some penises expand more than others do," I said with a red face.
"Does yours?" she asked, her eyes wide.
"Does mine what?" I could feel myself blushing.
"Expand, like, you know, a whole lot?"
"That's not a great question to ask, Bev, you know?"
"Oh, come on, tell me, Uncle Bill, tell me about it. I wanna know."
I shook my head. "I think you should discuss this with your mother."
She shook her head and smiled. "Mom never tells me anything. She'd just say
that I have a dirty mind, which I think I do."
I couldn't believe that my niece was that naive. Certainly, at some point in
her life, she must have seen pictures of dicks, or hard on, at least once.
"Show me yours," she suggested.
Along with my consternation, and my red face, I felt my cock jump a little in
my pants. I was becoming excited, just thinking about it. I knew I couldn't
though.
I shook my head. "Not on your life, Bev," I said.
"Chicken!" She laughed. "You're afraid to show me."
"I'm not afraid, Beverly. It just wouldn't be right." My voice was choked, and
I could feel my cock growing at the suggestion of showing it to her.
"Then show me!" She moved over on the couch, closer to me, and reached over and
started to unsnap my pants. I looked down, my heart pounding like a jackhammer
in my chest, and I watched her shaking hands unsnap my jeans, one button at a
time. With the last snap undone, she reached in and groped around, and I moved
her hand away.
"Chicken," she said again.
Then, all at once, she pushed me down, lengthwise on the couch, and I froze
with anticipation. I let her tug at my jeans. I lifted my ass off the couch so
she could pull them all the way down. She pulled them off and tossed them on
the floor, leaving me wearing a pair of cotton briefs. My cock was throbbing,
hard, pressing against the white, soft material. She pulled away from me and
looked at the bulge that my cock made in my shorts.
"Uncle Bill," she said. "It's enormous! And your, your, uh, testicles are big,
too." She reached forward for the elastic band on my shorts and tugged at them.
She pulled them downward, bending my cock down. I lifted my ass off the couch
again, and she pulled my shorts over my cock, letting it fly up and hit me in
the belly. She stopped and stared at my hairy, hard cock, and then continued
pulling my shorts all the way off.
She sat there and stared at my cock. "Can I touch it?" she asked.
I didn't have time to say no. She reached over as she asked and pressed one
finger against my throbbing shaft. She ran her finger down the shaft of it, all
the way to my balls.
"It's so hard, but the skin is so soft," she said. She wrapped her fingers
around it and stroked up gently. "Do you like that?" she asked.
"Oh, yes, Beverly, that feels great," I said.
She moved her other hand to my balls, leaning over me, and cupped them in her
hand. She began massaging my balls, moving her face closer and closer to my
throbbing dick. Then, I watched in fascination as she pressed her lips to my
dick and kissed it! Before I could say another word, she moved her lips to the
head of my cock and sucked it into her mouth. She pulled away. "This is what's
called a blow job, huh?"
I nodded, and she put her mouth right back on my cock, sucking on it hard. I
writhed and moaned and lifted my knees. She stroked my cock right beneath her
lips, moving both her mouth and her hand up and down on my rigid prick. I
thrust upward, and I came, shooting my jizz into her hot, wet mouth. I shot and
shot, moaning and groaning for her to stop.
The cum fell out of her mouth and ran down her chin. She moved away and stood
up, and then pulled her blouse off. She reached behind her and unhooked her
bra, and slipped out of her shorts and her panties in one motion. I looked at
my niece. Her breast were round and firm, her pink nipples hard. Her pubic
mound was light brown, almost blonde. Her hips were round and smooth. She had a
perfect body, enticing and beautiful. She moved back over me, straddling my
body, pressing her hot pussy against my cock. She held onto my stiff dick and
inserted it into her wet pussy, and then lowered herself on it.
She was no virgin, I could tell. She rode me like a cowboy rides a stallion,
and she writhed and moaned as she came, again and again. I could feel the
familiar sensation rising in me, and I came again, this time filling her hot
cunt with loads of cum.
She pulled away and sat on the couch beside me, looking at my cock. "Your
dick," she said, "is a lot bigger than Roger's, and longer, even, than Paul's."
I should have figured that. "I thought so," I said with a knowing smile. "But,
why the pretense?"
"I've wanted you for a long time, and there was no other way," she said. "After
all, if I had just come over here and said, 'Gee, I wanna suck your dick,' you
would have told me to go straight to hell, huh?"
I didn't know about that.
from http://www.amateursxxxsex.net
maybe getting a development team and building a product might be a good idea too. and drop the stupid IPO idea - you guys will sink like a rock.
While I respect the fact that you've done a lot of work on software licenses, and I acknowledge that I'm not a lawyer, I think you've goofed here. Quoting the GPL:
(emphasis added)
Doesn't this mean that anyone has permission to use the software?
>getting people to reiterate lies like that and eliciting things that can appear damaging to them later seems to me like what was intended when there were laws made about "entrapment"
I'm glad you're not a lawyer.
entrapv. tr. entrapped, entrapping, entraps.
(The above from...dictionary.com. Sure was hard to find)
This hardly meets the ``danger'' or ``compromising situation'' qualifations. And I wouldn't really say difficult either, though I guess it makes a bit more sense.
And as far as the second definition...well, there is no law against being a moron (unfortunately).
That should be 'He can't speak English well, like we can'.
:)
Who ever said Linux is English? & Shouldn't the pronuciation of the creator be the official version?
/. wanted to pronounce it "slushdut" (or whatever), wouldn't you agree that that is the way they want it said?
I don't know about you, but if CmdrTaco & the others from
I'm not a business genious or anything Mr. Bottoms, but I would consider selling a product that someone else made , without exploring any legal aspects, just plain dumb. Furthermore, I would NOT want to invest my hard-earned money into a company who would make such a error.
I'm not a business genius or anything Mr. Bottoms, but I would consider selling a product that someone else made , without exploring any legal aspects, just plain dumb. Furthermore, I would NOT want to invest my hard-earned money into a company who would make such a error.
Did anybody else go to their website and
notice that they are running a "flame of the
week" contest? These people are actually
posting flames that people send them (some
of which are pretty funny). This seems like
a(nother) very bad business decision.
Having read Accipiter's transcript, I feel amazingly sorry for the poor guy on the other end of the phone... but I can't help suspecting you've fallen for the oldest trick in the book...
The 'answer phrase' is the giveaway - "What division can I direct you to?" It's a call centre, guys - an answering service. I work in one, to pay the rent, and I'm constantly amazed by the number of people who can't grasp the concept of an answering service - other companies use us to answer their phones, give rudimentary information about their product, make them look like an international company with a giant switch, constantly ringing phones, etc...
It's corporate fraud on a huge scale.
But it's not particularly clever to pass judgement on LinuxOne (as much as it seems warranted!) based on the performance of another company and someone working at that company whose main skill is answering phones.
Incidentally, if you asked the same questions of a Windows salesman, would you get any more intelligent answers? Of course not. You're asking the wrong type of person.
Be nice to telephonists. They have to deal with... well, you.
Did they give a written offer to provide the sourcecode? No? In that case, they would be breaking the GPL.
After writing the note that I sent out I did talk to LinuxOne's sales rep ("VP of sales") as per another LWE attendees post. He indicated that to his understanding everything on the floppy was proprietary technology. I still have to follow up with the request, and if I cannot get a response out of them my next step is to get in touch with the FSF.
-Peter (C. Norton)
== Just my opinion(s)
I told you what was on the disk in the message that got posted above. Just in case you need more proof, here's the contents of the LinuxMac floppy.
/]$ ls /mnt/floppy /]$
[spacey@obelisk
LinuxMac-0.9.0-1.i386.rpm lost+found
[spacey@obelisk
-Peter (C. Norton)
== Just my opinion(s)
But you're not in the office.
I just called the number posted here, and contacted a woman with a heavy chinese accent who told me that Mr. Bottoms is not present, and that she does not know when he'll be in.
Me: Do you know when he'll be in?
Her: I don't know. Some days he is in late some days he is not even coming in.
So, since the number I was given doesn't provide me with a way of contacting Mr. Bottom, let me turn around and ask Mr. Bottom to contact me. If he is still in the New York City area I am available to meet. He can contact me at the email address provided in the article.
-Peter (C. Norton)
== Just my opinion(s)
No, that's Peter F. Norton. He doesn't have much involvement with the Utiltites company anymore, and he's a really nice guy.
-Peter (C. Norton)
== Just my opinion(s)
swindles? Huh? You missed one:
http://www.theswindle.com
Somehow, this doesn't shock me. If the last artice didn't damage LinuxOne's (lack of) credibility enough, well... they obviously don't get it.
And the generic Microsoft-style product names are getting on my nerves. LinuxMac? Puh-leeze. If these guys keep it up, maybe I'll even start liking Caldera.
LinuxOne: The One Linux IPO to miss this year.
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
...What can be adequatly explained by stupidity.
It's possable that they are more totally clueless than anything. Of course, that's still a very good reason to stay far away from any IPO from them.
It's also possable that there's fraud at the top and cluelessness on all levels below. Time will tell.
This entire LinuxMac situation may be poor taste, but unfortionatly, it is *NOT* against the law, nor breaking the GPL.
As long as they in some way supply you with the source for the binary that they call from their exe, they're all set.
You see, they're doing doing an exec of it. The actualy 'wrapper' that they are producing it indeed their own code, granted, I could write it in less then an hour in perl, or even as an sh script.
The short story.. While what they are doing is unethical, it is no way breaks the GPL, taking into consideration that they provide the source for the GPL utilities provided, which no one has, as of yet, proven the case of..
-- I'm the root of all that's evil, but you can call me cookie..
Seriously, if writing a GUI constitutes the proprietary development of an OS, then Windows must also be an OS. Hmmmm. Was the CEO of LinuxOne a friend of William Gates III at college?
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Uh..., on point #2.
There have been a lot of people lynched in history, and I'm willing to bet a large portion of them were not of any African heritage.
I fail to see how this is a troubling matter.
Perhaps instead of roping up LinuxOne, we should run them through...however, I may take offense as a great deal of my potential ancient relavites have been run through in the past.
I'm wondering if LinuxOne has paid the licensing fee for use of QT in a proprietary product. The QPL prohibits proprietary software, so they can't develop it under that.
What is the developer version license again? Is it a whopping $1,550 per developer or something like that? I'd be interested to find out if someone has informed the folks at troll tech. They are already selling this product on their web site.
CmdrChalupa (Who knows not how to change his sig =)
CmdrChalupa, who finally changed his sig (drop -FlogSpammersNow- for my real address)
One would have to be careful, or else have a good lawyer on retainer, as LinuxOne would be obliged to sue to maintain any shred of credibility.
Yes, if it were truthful they'd probably lose. Though in any case it'd still cost the defendant considerable time and money to fight the lawsuit.
Seven for the Debian-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Microsoft Men doomed to die,
LinuxOne for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Mountain View, CA where the Shadows lie.
LinuxOne to ruin them all, LinuxOne to fail them,
LinuxOne to bring them all and in the darkness blind them....
In the Land of Mountain View where the Shadows and bad IPOs lie.
-- Seth Cohn
(Lifted from the LinuxOne flame archive.)
"Reactionaries must be deprived of the right to voice their opinions; only the people have that right." - Mao
Why can't they just point to the sources on somebody else's web site if they haven't made any modifications? Two reasons:
Thanks
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
I missed the lynching threat but no doubt it's there. I would not suggest you take it as a racist sentiment, but more as an expression of how offended we are. I myself have proposed that LinuxOne Inc. be "run out of town on a rail", I don't know if that has any racist connotations.
Yes, you screwed up and you now have a whole lot to learn. To start with, I can direct you to an attorney in Palo Alto who can design your GPL compliance program, if you wish. Just write to me at bruce@perens.com .
The sentiments expressed here are not those of VA or Andover.net, that's something else you need to learn. But if you can turn the company around, I'm sure that will get coverage.
Thanks
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
"You are invited to come out at our expense to review our technology plan going forward."
Ironic. You posted that at 11:34am. You're willing to pay for his expenses in getting to you, but unless he's in your local area, the chances of him actually making it there to the meeting you're holding are almost nil. Or would you be willing to delay said meeting until his arrival?
"That we've fucked up is not in dispute"
This is amusing. Care to post this on the LinuxOne webpage? While _you_ may admit your company has made some horrendous blunders, that's certainly hasn't stopped the marketing people from trying to convince everyone of the exact opposite. How about some good ole "Truth in Advertising"?
"That we had the balls to come to New York should also not be in dispute."
You're right. You were there. And I must admit, your company had to have some pretty giantic kahones to come to the premiere Linux trade show with a repackaged set of standard utilities that you claim is your new and innovative product. You also claim that you don't use these utilities at all, and that, in fact, you don't have a copy of them anywhere.
You seem intelligent enough to realize the horrible mistakes your company is making. Perhaps it's time that you (and your company) began correcting these mistakes, as opposed to committing further blatant blunders. And _if_, not when, your company begins to play by the rules, _then_ you may get the same level of coverage. But only if your efforts to make amends and repair the damage are as equally strong as the blunders you're making now.
Well, not quite. Mandrake has always been a "Better RedHat then RedHat". By that I mean less bugs and more features (like KDE out-of-the-box).
___
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
They don't care man. The only credibility that they need is credibility with gullible people who like to gamble their money away on speculative stocks. And unfortunately, when you're in a good economy and foolish stock traders feel like they're bullet proof, all you need to gain credibility in those people's eyes is a buzzword.
And that buzzword is linux. VA and Redhat are great companies, and they actually have something to offer, but they did cash in on that buzzword. There's nothing shameful in making lots of money if you actually have something to offer like Redhat and VA.
But keep in mind that linuxone only needs to have 1/10th of their success in order to "succeed" in what they're doing.
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
"Don't buy from Amazon.com, but do waste their bandwidth by looking for books there."
:)
I used to think that was a good idea, but it turns out that it's not. Amazon doesn't make all of its money off of book sales, it also makes money advertising and so on, so even when you just go to waste their bandwidth and take up resources, they're glad to have you do it, because it's one more hit they add to their hitcount. They then go out to advertisers and say "We had X hits/day which means that advertising costs $Y"
The bigger the $X, the bigger the $Y I would think.
Really though, they do make money without you ever buying anything. If websites couldn't do that, then slashdot would have never been bought by Andover, and Andover would have never been swallowed by VA.
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
I could just read between the lines seeing you lead on that hapless employee...going back again and again to the RPM issue, getting her to reiterate what she said (whether it was a lie or just simply a total lack of understanding with everything having to do with linux I'm not sure) and then asking her several times if they were running LinuxOne on their webserver...
.spec files? (Which isn't *really* programming anyway..)
:) (/me braces myself for a "linux" pronunciation holy war :)
I have no idea about the legality of taping conversations on the phone like that, but getting people to reiterate lies like that and eliciting things that can appear damaging to them later seems to me like what was intended when there were laws made about "entrapment"
That said, the phone conversation was funny as hell, and they deserve to be exposed. I feel bad for that sorry employee though, who obviously can't swallow her pride and say "I don't know" on any of the issues...RPM a programming language??? Might she somehow be thinking of
Just tell me one thing man, ease my mind. Please tell me that you were saying "ly-nucks" instead of "lih-nucks" on the phone because you were playing the part of the dumb customer.
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
I could just read between the lines seeing you lead on that hapless employee...going back again and again to the RPM issue, getting her to reiterate what she said (whether it was a lie or just simply a total lack of understanding with everything having to do with linux I'm not sure) and then asking her several times if they were running LinuxOne on their webserver...
.spec files? (Which isn't *really* programming anyway..)
:) (/me braces myself for a "linux" pronunciation holy war :)
I have no idea about the legality of taping conversations on the phone like that, but getting people to reiterate lies like that and eliciting things that can appear damaging to them later seems to me like what was intended when there were laws made about "entrapment"
That said, the phone conversation was funny as hell, and they deserve to be exposed. I feel bad for that sorry employee though, who obviously can't swallow her pride and say "I don't know" on any of the issues...RPM a programming language??? Might she somehow be thinking of
Just tell me one thing man, ease my mind. Please tell me that you were saying "ly-nucks" instead of "lih-nucks" on the phone because you were playing the part of the dumb customer.
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
I was fortunate enough to go to the expo on friday in new york, and I couldn't believe my eyes that Linux One actually showed up. I thought that they were strictly a screw-the-investor outfit, and that they wouldn't even bother trying to sell a profit seeing as how they are such pariahs in the linux community. I figured that they would just stick to screwing investors out of their money at the IPO.
But they were actually there! There was some guy who looked like he was in his late 50's (Caucasian male) who said that he was the VP of the company. I walked up to their booth, and I was just checking out what they had to offer, (mostly CD's and a few stickers and things, frankly they had one of the most boring booths there) and true to form, somebody walked up and said "This floppy that you gave me has program X on it" (I don't remember what program X was) "Program X is under the GPL, so I was wondering if I can get a source code floppy or CD for this program"
After much hemming and hawing, the VP of LinuxOne (if that's who he was) explained that he wasn't a technical guy, that he was just there to run the booth, and that he would talk to the more technical people. The guy at the booth gave him a hard time a while longer and eventually agreed to write down his email address for the LinuxOne guy to get in touch with him later. (Yeah, like that'll ever happen)
Doesn't it seem strange that Linux One would send somebody who didn't even know enough about linux software to realize that for a lot of packages, it's probably somewhat expected to have access to the source code? It's possible that this guy was playing dumb - but it sure didn't look like he was playing, if you get my drift. I can't believe that they would send somebody non-technical to the show, even if only to snowjob the show-goers.
When seeing people flame LinuxOne on slashdot, I read up on the company, and thought that they were a completely crappy, flighty company that seemed determined to crowbar the dollars out of hapless daytraders, but still, somewhere I had some drop of pity for them since it was possible that they were the victims of some gigantic misunderstanding.
They're not. I hate to say it, but short of whatever the Natalie Portman trolls have been saying, whatever negative thing that you've heard about Linux One is probably true. I certainly can't think of a single attack on them that I've ever heard that doesn't seem to be true.
-- Truth goes out the door when rumor comes innuendo. -- Groucho Marx
"Thanks for bringing this to our attention"
WTF!?!
You *cannot* be that stupid!
How can I express my shock and anger in this text?
Mr. Bottoms, you cannot truthfully tell us that NO ONE at LinuxOne was aware of this issue before you saw this comment today.
FUCK! Stop it!
(Slow, deep breath) Mr. Bottoms:
I come from a Navy family and am the son of a WW II Army NCO, so I bow to no one when it comes to using salty language, but "...we fucked up..." and "that we had the balls to..." belongs in the goat locker (the chiefs' quarters, ye lubbers), not off the keyboard of some tycoon-wannabee.
I think it's indicative of your astonishing lack of judgement that you've chosen to respond in a prominent forum of the Linux and OSS communities in this fashion. The last two employers I had the misfortune to labor for who behaved in such a manner didn't make out any better than you seem destined to.
Mr. Bottoms, did they all talk like that where you come from? You're not some dirtbag who doesn't care whether he's taken seriously -- are you? Do you kiss your mother with that mouth? Haven't you considered that many of your company's employees and investors (the smart ones that you want to keep, anyway) read Slashdot faithfully?
You, sir, are a foolish, foolish man, and others will have to suffer along with you for your egregious mistakes.
"How many light bulbs does it take to change a person?" --BMcC-->
For instance, if i modified your GPLed program and sold it to "JIM", would I then be required to send the source code, on floppy, to 10,000 people who then request it from me?
I believe this is so. You would be allowed to charge them for the media and postage (and possible some reasonable amount for the time & effort to create the floppies & mail them out, not sure about that though). But once you distribute it, you are obligated to make the source available to *anyone* who asks for it. Obviously, the most reasonable method would be to e-mail the appropriate files, or post them on a web site. I don't believe you are obligated to provide them in any specific format (e.g., you don't have to produce them on paper tape if someone asks), but you are obligated to make a reasonable effort.
Just junk food for thought...
It is not required to distrubte the source code with the program... just as long as its available. HOWEVER, you MUST distribute the GNU License... which seems to be lacking from that file list. I think that is the point he was getting at.... not so much the source code wasn't included.
---
HELLO! MY PAGE DID SAY THAT! Here's a few excerpts:
"Yes, I know that not everyone can be totally informed of a product, but that's not an excuse for giving misinformation, as you will read below."
"Conclusion: This sales associate was VERY uninformed. Okay, she may have not been the most technical person in the world, but at several points in our conversation she gave me total misinformation. It would have been perfectly okay to say "I don't know", but instead she insisted RPM was a programming language, and that Apache was a server architecture."
....Or did you even BOTHER to read the whole thing?
You then asked if there were methods of programming in rpm and such. I am sorry as I cannot view your page now but I got the impression that you were toying with the person and allowing them to continue to think that what they said was correct when it wasn't.
Wrong. I was asking the questions that a "person who didn't know anything" would ask. If I was toying with them, I would have phrased the entire conversation a lot more lower in intelligence. I acted like an interested business person, and phrased my questions accordingly. I didn't ask any questions that would be considered out of line, especially considering the information I was given. Sorry, but your argument just doesn't hold up.
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
Not only have you obviously not read the disclaimer at the top of every comment page - "The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. Slashdot is not responsible for what they say" - but you're 'pulling the race card', which is incredibly bad form.
If you want us to take you seriously, you need to stop 'fucking up' (as you put it so eloquently) and start backpedaling now.
An official statement from LinuxOne explaining your behavior and your corrective intentions would be a good place to start.
"Nuggz" quotes "Ebbv":
>i don't think they were all that vague.
and replies:
"I don't think this statement is very specific"
If your attention span could stretch more than one full stop back, you'd see that it was a direct reply to your earlier sentence:
"Vague allusions to the quality of my post really don't prove anything, and are just useful for distraction."
There is one thing there that you used the very word "vague" about: Allusions to the quality of [your] post.
What he is saying is, in effect: "My allusions to the quality of your post weren't vague".
Of course, that you "don't think this statement is very specific" only goes to show he's right: The quality of your posts really does suck.
(And that is, ironically, probably yet another example of the failure of that public school system you're a product of, and so misguidedly eager to defend. Especially misguided since you only managed to expose it all the more in the process.)
HTH!
Christian R. Conrad
MY opinions, not my employer's - Hedengren, Finland.
Christian R. Conrad
mail me at iki.fi ; same user ID as here
they should pick an easier mark, like peddling quack patent medicines to old, sick and confused retiree's - trying to scam the OSS community is like trying to sell fake plastic toy guns to folks at an NRA convention.
At best it sounds like the old 'vaporware' scam, a fraud mastered by you know who, advertise the heck out of a product or service just to get enough orders to finance it's development.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Dude, posting your e-mail addres on Slashdot...You're, like, asking for mondo-flamage in your inbox.
Cheers!
Just be sure to wear the gold uniform when you beam down -- you know what happens when you wear the red one.
In addition, Mandrake has not shown signs of breaking the GPL by not distributing source. Quite the opposite... my boxed Mandrake 6.0 came with two source CDs. Others have chronicled in the past that LinuxOne has seemed unwilling to part with their source.
In addtion, Mandrake has not misrepresented itself. They have openly admitted what they do, and have not tried to throw up smokescreens of having propriatary additions to Linux. In the past, LinuxOne has claimed that this Mac thing was not based on any existing Linux software, which seems to be false.
I use Mandrake. I like it. I have no problem with what they are doing. I do have major questions about LinuxOne however. They need to adhere to the GPL, and come clean about what they are doing.
Well I don't believe LinuxOne has been underwritten as of yet, atleast I haven't found anything that would indicate that. Traditionally the underwriters do not bear that kind of liability. In fact, there is language to the effect that the issuer indemnifies the underwriter(s) for liability arising out of omissions or misrepresentations for which the issuer had responsibility.
Now if it can be proven that the underwriting firm had direct knowledge that the firm is a fraud, that might be a different issue. In general though, the onus is not on the investment banks to run around and make sure that everything the issuer says is true.
In regards to their risk, it depends how LinuxOne is taken public. The only route is not through underwriting, rather the risk can be shifted to the issuer through what is known as a "best effort" agreement in which they essentially just act as a broker, not to mention a few others. Even in the case of underwriting though, the underwriters don't necessarily bear signficant risk--even if the issuing company is a bad egg. As long as the bank sells the issue before the market realizes its mistake, they're in the clear. Which is quite likely as long as there is Linux hype in the short term. Especially when the issues are normally significantly discounted and mostly devoid of Day-Traderesque red hot pricing (which the possibly fraudulent owners might be hoping/depending on).
Bottom Line: Don't depend on these investment banks to filter out the slimy issues.
It would be a shame if they got away with this kind of decption.
:)
It's a shame I get away with this type of spelling
Finkployd
This (while hardly unexpected) raises some serious questions. Is there anyone out there who devotes their time to making sure companies are not taking open source programs or code and passing them off as proprietary? What is the procedure for dealing with these guys? It would be a shame if they got away with this kind of decption.
Finkployd
It doesn't sound like they're refusing access to the source. They're not required to include the source with their binaries, they just have to make it available upon request, for no charge, aside from postage and the price of a floppy. It's not like their employees are mandated to carry floppies everwhere they go in order to be able to distribute the source code upon request.
Then GNU, ESR, RMS, and whatever other initials you care to throw togtether do not mandate that source be included with all binaries. Just because it's the "general standard" does not mean that it's a requirement of the license. So long as the source is posted on their FTP server, that's probably *good enough* to satisfy the GPL. They could also have a few CD's or floppies for people who claimed to not have internet access (strange, in this day and age, especially for linux users).
Quit calling others trolls... it seemed you were the troll, making arguments such as "what if you don't believe in phones?"...
Then GNU, ESR, RMS, and whatever other initials you care to throw togtether do not mandate that source be included with all binaries. Just because it's the "general standard" does not mean that it's a requirement of the license. So long as the source is posted on their FTP server, that's probably *good enough* to satisfy the GPL. They could also have a few CD's or floppies for people who claimed to not have internet access (strange, in this day and age, especially for linux users).
Quit calling others trolls... it seemed you were the troll, making arguments such as "what if you don't believe in phones?"...
You are responsible to the copyright owner to comply with the license. You are responsible to those to whom you distributed binaries to distribute source on request. You are also responsible to any third party to distribute source on request if you don't distribute it along with the binary.
So, if LinuxOne distributed the binaries along with the source code on the floppy, then only the people who received the floppies would be legally required to have access to the source code, which they could do whatever they want with.
However, since they don't distribute the source with the binary, they must give the source to anyone who asks, regardless as to whether or not they've received a binary?
That seems just wrong.
It's always been my impression that the GPL only applies between the copyright holder, you, and the person you distribute the software to. For instance, if i modified your GPLed program and sold it to "JIM", would I then be required to send the source code, on floppy, to 10,000 people who then request it from me? I wouldn't think so, unless I'd given them the binaries.
Same with LinuxOne. I don't see why they should need to make their source available to anyone who hasn't received a binary.
They've obviously violated the GNU Public License, so why doesn't GNU file a lawsuit? Hell if they need funding for the lawsuit (which I don't believe they do), I'm sure they would find plenty of donors.
This company is a blatent fraud, and they insult the intelligence of the OSS community and the concept of Linux as a whole. This is definately something that needs to be acknowldeged and made an example of legally. When do they get their Cease and Desist order?
More like... What GPL'd program did they redistribute without the GPL? hdformat for one.
If you click on "About Us" on the right side of their page you can read all about how they "have a commitment to be the center of excellence for Linux embedded systems", too. What we should do as a community is make up new "uses" for Linux and then see if LinuxOne claims to be the best at those, too. Like 'teach your dog to talk with Linux' kinda stuff.
"Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it."
What if you don't have a floppy drive? I don't. iMacs don't.
All the GPL says is it has to be available on a media customarily used for exchanging software. It doesn't say it has to come with the program.
Just because you would prefer that the source were included with the binary doesn't mean they are WRONG to not include it on the same damn media.
Have you ever seen the source included on a Debian bootdisk? Yet there is room on my Debian bootdisks for it.
If you don't like the way the GPL is worded take it up with the FSF and RMS.
I was just pointing out that LinuxOne has done nothing wrong whatsoever by not including the source, contrary to what the author of the original article implied. If making a factual correction counts as trolling....then I'm a troll.
What GPLed program have they modified and refused to release the source for?
Nothing says there has to source code on the floppy. Even if they have made changes to hformat (which I didn't see you claim or prove) they STILL don't have to put the source on the floppy. All they have to do is make it available upon request. I don't think the GPL specifies what format they need to furnish it in. Maybe they'll send it to you on 8-track.
Yeah, that's right! You tell them Richard! Anyone who points out the blatant flaws in and misleading advertising surrounding a software product must be a racist!
Praise the Force Field! Praise the Laser Project! Slackware Loon #19830573
1) Its seems pretty clear that LinuxOne has broken the GPL terms (this is based one what I have read on the net from people I trust)
then
2) They should get hit with a restraining order and accompanying lawsuit. They have been doing this long enough that its time to stop letting them get away with it. Plus, it should make it clear to everyone what is really going on here.
So who's in charge of a lawsuit. It needs to be put together quickly. I would support (money) if need be.
john
Surprise surprise, VA Linuxdot, err, Slashdot, bashes a different Linux distro.
Bzzzzzt!
VA Linux is not another distro. From their website:
VA Linux Systems Software Package v.6.0
Although we do not create our own distribution, VA optimizes the Linux kernel for each system type and includes the most popular Linux distributions preinstalled.
I'm sorry, but any uninformed stock buyer, old retiree or not, deserves what they get if they invest their life savings in an IPO solely on the basis of a buzzword. As far as I'm concerned, LinuxOne can scam any fools they want to--but not if it means tarnishing the good name of the Free Software community, which is precisely what they mean to do.
Seeing so many posts here which say "he shouldn't have played the race card" saddens me. The fact is that racism is still alive and well in the USA and even if you have not had to deal with it, it would be wise to understand that other people have had to.
Don't you know the story of the boy who cried 'wolf!'? The point is, since it is a serious problem, it is all the worse to cry 'racism' when there is no conatation of any sort of racism whatsoever. IIRC lynching is one of the very traditional methods of dealing with scamming business men who come into the local town trying to pull a fast one; I'm not advocating its use now (hopefully we're a bit beyond that) but the metaphor is perfectly appropriate and is no different from any other 'justice' type execution as regards racism.
That's why it's playing the race card, because it's diverting the argument to an ad hominem attack. Or don't you believe calling someone a racist, who hasn't shown that in any way is a personal insult?
Chris
San Francisco values: compassion, tolerance, respect, intelligence
Wait a minute. Why can't people flame Linux-One without bringing lynching into the argument?
:-)
Well, sure; but emotions are running pretty high about this whole Linuxone scam
I thought it was a fair request.
Maybe coming from you. But not from one of the perpetrators of this scam.
I think his statement was a weak and unfocused attempt at a personal insult directed at both the poster and slashdot/linux va. I think he was correct only in that lyching is racist term. It is much more offensive than words like nigger. Perhaps because I know that so many people have died unjustly, I don't find it acceptable even if used in ignorance of the racial connotation.
Well, you have an argument; However, I still can't accept that the connotation is that racial, considering how many other things have been done to blacks (not to mention many other unfortunate groups) and considering how many other people have been lynched. That being said, I can definitely respect your opinion and feelings on the matter, and believe me, I probably wouldn't have used the term either; but that's more due to my aversion to violence to anyone
Chris
San Francisco values: compassion, tolerance, respect, intelligence
To Andover and Slashdot, as an African-American it is troubling to read threats of lynching on this board, but if that's how VA Linux Systems and Slashdot choose to handle its business competitors, so be it.
No one is going to lynch you. If anything, we'll just ignore you by refusing to purchase any LinuxOne goods and servers and make sure that the truth about the organization you represent is clearly and correctly presented to as broad an audience as possible.
And pardon me for asking, but since when did racism get injected into this discussion? Is that how you view this debate, as racist-inspired? We might be angry (I'm very angry), but this comment from you about lynching is just one more clue to the rest of the world as to how clueless you and LinuxOne really are. You're viewed strictly on your technical merits, of which all of you without exception have absolutely none.
Now before I get flamed let me just say that I'm as flabbergasted as anyone with regards to this weird LinuxOne stuff. The fact that they've gotten as far as they have is some kind of horrible example of just how weird the business world is in these United States...
:-)
Anyway, back to my point: maybe this LinuxOne thing will wind up being a "good thing" for the Linux community as well as for the respectable vendors when all is said and done. Think about it. LinuxOne is as good a counterpoint to almost every other Linux vendor and distro out there (if not all). Any comparison between them and any other vendor is going to result in nothing but glowing remarks for the "good guy" vendors.
In the press, anytime that LinuxOne is mentioned they are going to be compared to Mandrake, which will have to be explained as a RedHat derivative which will, in turn, be compared to Corel, SuSE, Debian, etc. Notice that all the comparisons are talking about Linux and Linux vendors. Nowhere was a non-Linux comparison made. The case for Linux being non-viable due to lack of anything has been erased because all anyone is talking about is Linux.
So, as evil or greedy as they seem, maybe they will turn out to have done Linux (in general) a favor. Kind of a double edged sword, I know, but hey.
Heck, it's almost as if it's an inept Microsoft plot that's in the process of exploding in their face.
Of course that's just my hallucination. I could be stoned.
Sure, they may be running a fraudlent, bandwagon hopping, rip off scam of a business, but in defacing Tux with their LinuxOne logo, they went too far damn it! :)
As a side note, I'm seriously beginning to think their entire operation is simply a joke. Perhaps they are trying to out do last years April Fools joke, so they're starting early. Any company that makes a mockary of themselves with a "Fame of the Week" contest, especially since they're gearing up for their IPO, deserves no respect right there. Are they trying to win our sympathy? Do they think that people are joking? I dunno, it just seems like a very bad thing to do, especially when a lot of the flames have a basis in reality.
Oh well, it's a Gates Plot. It's gotta be.
You want to know why no one likes LinuxOne? Because your practices stink of Microsoft. The company that distributed a version of Intergalactic Research's Q-DOS and charged $60 for it, and then went on to rip off the Macintosh GUI and charge $180 for it. Your practices (and Microsoft's) may not be illegal, but they're pretty lame.
Now, I despise MS products as much as anyone, but I can't let this totally pass. Microsoft does have one redeeming quality: they employ programmers, and they crank out code. It may not work well, but they do crank it out and they do have many developers on staff.
Now, LinuxOne...
This
I'm sorry, but comments like this go to far.
You have probably never been lynched as an African-American...
And as I Non-African-American I can assure you I have never done that to anyone.
If you are so intent on playing the race card, you had better go out and get Johnnie Cochran, because that "If the Wookies don't live on Endor, you must acquit" shit doesn't fly coming out of anyone elses piehole.
The proprietors of slashdot didn't make the comments that you took offense to. VA Linux sure as hell didn't have anything to do with it. This is just a cheap shot (Admittedly, some people have taken cheap shots at your organisation as well.)
You are right in saying that "That we've fucked up is not in dispute", no one here thinks you didn't fuck up.
I personally think that it took big swinging pendulous balls to go to Linux World Expo, but since apparently you didn't send anyone with technical merit or significant knowledge of Linux or the user community, the people whose balls were on the line probably had no idea where they were sticking them.
wake up and find out that you are the eyes of the world.
*whacks forehead* Norton! *whacks forehead* Norton!
Too much influence from reading the AC idiots posting below.
As for Peter Norton, there are plenty of those also.
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
The guy on the symantec products is busy writing books last I checked. (Don't buy from Amazon.com, but do waste their bandwidth by looking for books there.) I can't imagine he'd be involved with this outfit.
North isn't an uncommon name, anyway. A quick romp through the phonebook will turn up at least 19 Peter Norths living in the US.
"If one is really a superior person, the fact is likely to leak out without too much assistance" -- John Andrew Holmes
Who's got a rafter to string these crooks up from? I'd say nail them up by their spines, but i doubt they're strong enough to with-stand it..
i'm sending this article around to everyone i know who will understand it,.. i hope all of you do the same, people need to know about this. the only way to combat LinuxOne's public, out-right lies is to make the truth public as well.
...dave
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
what if you don't believe in phones! then you're shafted.
and don't tell me that's a ridiculous argument, it's no more silly than yours. no it isn't strictly required that the source be on the floppy, but that is the general standard. there is room on the floppy, the binary is on the floppy, then the source should be there too.
don't be a troll.
...dave
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
LinuxOne is out there publicly claiming to be a developer and supplier of valuable Linux applications/tools/utilities/distributions/etc. There are many many people out there who do not have the tools and knowledge necessary to see that this is a blatant lie. When they IPO, many innocent investors will be ripped off. I would say, ha-ha and not care, but this could put a black smear on the Linux community in the minds of some ignorant people. Ignorant people tend to spread their mis-information to each other,..
So that is why LinuxOne needs to be carefully and meticulously dissected, and you need to make sure *everyone* is aware of this.
...dave
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
You don't understand I have different goals then you.
uhh, yes i do. i even addressed them in the response but i guess you don't bother to read, you just reply based on subject.
They have already found significant evidence that they are not a developer/supplier for Linux stuff.
all evidence is relevant. it is naive and just plain stupid to say 'oh, well that's enough, we should stop looking and taking notes.'
the rest of your response is equally immature so i'm not going to bother addressing it.
i'm guessing you're still in public school,.. if you're not, god help the workforce.
...dave
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
People who make uninformed decisions deserve what they get.
i agree, but the LinuxOne folks do not deserve lots of money for their hoax, and the Linux community does not deserve to be tainted with such a ridiculous scam.
It is futile to try to teach those who dont' want to learn, why bother.
again, i agree, and again, you have missed the point of this whole discussion.
The stupid, immature, public school, god help the workforce part is really classic. Vague allusions to the quality of my post really don't prove anything, and are just useful for distraction.
i don't think they were all that vague.
...dave
Think different? I'd be happy if most people would just think...
As the author of hfsutils, and someone who is actively investigating this matter, I can confirm that LinuxOne's LinuxMac product as currently distributed provides no real functionality except a GUI wrapper and the ability to create Macintosh HFS file systems by bundling hformat.
The fact that the GPL'd hformat is included without a conspicuous copyright notice, without a copy of the GPL, and without including or making an offer to obtain the source has understandably raised my concern. Since I own the copyright, I am in the process of pursuing a legal remedy.
If you've purchased a copy of LinuxMac, or if you have information or concerns about the way it is being distributed, I'd like to hear from you.
no..they'll just be ignored. any company who has earned the hatred of everyone is unlikely to have their product checked out by anyone. even if they come out with a truly spectacular product, people will just shrug and say they were scam artists. of course the chances of that ever happening are rare..oh wait, is that a flying pig ?
they're just a bunch of con artists. stay the hell away.
I can't help but feel a little pity for LinuxOne. All the code they've ever released smells of incompetence. Or, in other words, their programmers are novices. I can imagine what it would be like to be a novice programmer trying to make a living. But wait. My argument fails there... as I realize that the CEO is NOT some starving novice programmer but some desperate veteran spammer. Never mind. So I guess I'll abandon all pity for LinuxOne, because I *know* there are honest ways of making a buck. Sorry that my post in the end became worthless, but it could come in handy helping people eliminate all pity they may have for LinuxOne. So I'll change the subject line appropriately.
In an environment where businesses are working hard to build a unique business model and at the same time earn the respect of the community that they depend on... LinuxOne has done nothing to earn any simular respect. A foolish publicity stunt does not change that. LinuxOne charged across that fine line. Pointing that fact out just makes the act more foolish.
The sad thing is that Linux - its legal workings, its code, and its community - is freely available online. There is no veil of secrecy. The legal requirements and the expectations of Linux's community are available for the reading; mirrored in many cases. It just takes someone with the vested interest in Linux to look and read.That this minor research hasn't been done already is disturbing. Surely the effort it took too find Linux code would have exposed LinuxOne to its community and, even more blatent, its legal language? The cynical amoung us would point out that, given the simplicity of the task, the information found was most likely ignored. You'll forgive me if I find myself affected by these cynics and doubt the need to cover any future "overhaul of [your] practices".
Oh, and its good manners to lie to potential customers feed them a bunch of made-up, *pretend* information?
I am sorry as I cannot view your page now but I got the impression that you were toying with the person and allowing them to continue to think that what they said was correct when it wasn't. It would be like talking to a small child and snickering behind their back.
Do you work for LinuxOne? The salesman is pretending to know about Linux, and replying with false information, and it is Accipiter who is in the wrong for exposing the exact extent of the salesman's ignorance? By the way, your analogy sucks. If LinuxOne is hiring salesman with "child-like" intelligence to represent their company, then they deserve to be ridiculed as such.
Please don't introduce a racism non-sequitor/red-herring into the mix here. The flak that your company is receiving is because of the various false claims that it has made. It has nothing to do with you being african-american.
Well at least Mandrake originally set out to offer an improved RedHat - bundling KDE while RH was sticking to their GNOME-only guns.
And at least Mandrake didn't rush to an IPO announcement based on nothing more "we are RH with KDE." L1 is offering even less of a distinction and has rushed out with an IPO announcement.
It is the perception of Linux in the market that needs protecting. Mandrake, unlike LinuxOne, didn't set out specificaly to boondoggle the markets with a get rich quick scheme based on nothing but borrowed packaging - that's quite a difference - regardless of what one thinks of the Mandrake distro itself.
-M
Is it possible for Linus' lawyers to think up a way to throw an "abuse of trademark" curveball at these snake oil peddlers?
Sure they have product, but since these products are rip offs with no added value whatsoever, it can be discounted.
It's time to protect the Linux trademark from the damage that can be done by short-sighted opportunists like this.
MV
> And, when we succed in our re-engineering
....
and overhaul of our practices we'll expect the
> same level of coverage of that too.
When? I'm not from Missouri but
Show Me!!!
Right now you have nothing but copies of others' work. We know it. You know it.
Right now you have the word "Linux" in you name and have filed for IPO based on the above cited nothing. Smells like "get rich quick!! opportunism and to us sounds like a threat to the market integrity of the name "Linux."
Withdraw your IPO filing. Create a real business plan. Create something real and release it properly. THEN come back to us asking for respect.
I repeat, right now you have nothing and have therefore earned nothing except for the scorn of the community you have parasitically attached yourselves to.
-M
"Everyone already knows that their distribution is just other's work with minimal changes".
This statement shows a lack of real world experience with unix period. Solaris and HP/UX share many commands in common, there is even the notion that there is a certain amount of basic compatability between these two flavors of Unix,
but in practice a simple shell script written for one might fail on the other due to differances in
What if one linux distribution decides to conform
even more to the Solaris spec than redhat by
including a sysv version of ps and placing it first in the default system wide path in
UCB 'ps' field arrangement.
A distribution is a work of art. Every file must
have correct permissions, and all the possible security risks have to be located and expunged.
The amount of man hours that goes into compiling and packaging each (admittedly and hopefully publicly available) package and all the other details of a well thought out distribution is enormous and definately comparable to a major coding project like gcc or X server itself. Then, in the case of a really GOOD distrubution, there are those pesky little details like compiling syslog to not listen on port 514 by default, compiling the shadow suite to use PAM auth, making sure telnetd doesn't actually export LD_LIBRARY_PRELOAD into the environment, etc. I have tons of experience with downloading the source distributions of packages and adding options like SSL or PAM. The occasion when these recompiles go without totally blowing up in my face is few and far between.
If I wasn't an experienced coder able to comb through make files and study source code for mistakes , I wouldn't be able to get half the free packages I download to work at all. Course, I do run a version of slackware from 1994 so that could explain some of these problems but shall I go on? You take for granted that these distributions (Debian, Caldera, SuSe, Redhat, Slackware) exist but you havn't really thought about what it would mean to create your own
without taking someone elses as a starting point.
Consider Mandrake (and don't hesitate to correct me if I'm wrong here), which I'm of the impression is a superb linux distribution from the point of view of security, but what is it really? It's RedHat tweaked by an expert (?). So let's get it straight, a distribution is not merely "just others work with minimal changes" , it's tens of thousands of man-hours
at hundreds of dollars per hour and frankly, I'd like to see some of that money in my pocket. {GRIN}
void this_is_a_stack_issue(){this_is_a_stack_issue();}
Actually, those would be trademarked words.
--
Win dain a lotica, en vai tu ri silota
I think the reason is to make sure that more of these companies don't decide to jump on this bandwagon and drag the Linux/Opensource/GNU thing into the swamp and bury it there.
Ugh. I just realized the purpose of the flame contest. Now when anyone who's somewhat detached from the community says "hey, I think I read someone saying something pretty bad about you guys" (like an investor), all they have to do is say:
"Oh yeah, that's a little contest we are running on our web site. Go check it out. Those crazy techies love to do this kind of stuff."
If you don't know what I'm talking about check here.
--jb
LinuxOne is having a Flame Of the Week Contest! Here
Also check out their Keywords: Linux, LinuxOne, kernel, S.O., Distribution, Labs, Red Hat, Redhat, Caldera, OpenLinux, SuSE, S.u.s.e., applixware, news, resources, Operating, System, OS, KDE, GNOME, GNU, Server, Network, application, Penguin, Onestop, Free, Download, commerical, support
I thought they could not use copyrighted words in their key words.
LinuxOne will go down!
-Jimmy
You don't understand I have different goals then you.
They have already found significant evidence that they are not a developer/supplier for Linux stuff.
What is needed now is to simply show this to the general public. An investor should steer clear if they bothered to look into this IPO. IPO's are generally not recommended for novices for a reason.
However not everyone cares, and I truely hope that people who are just chasing a name get burned, and burned big.
I think it would be a good thing to see some of this overhyped stock crap fall down, I want stocks to go up, when there is actual value, not because of hype.
Things like amazon.com really scare me, there is (effectively) no profit, no significant hope of profit, but they are worth billions.
Call me naive (I'm sure many will), but I want to live in a world were intelligent informed decisions are rewarded, and group think lets jump off a bridge mentality are punished.
Ignorance is bliss, and I just don't think thats fair.
Actually I did read it, to summarize my point.
People who make uninformed decisions deserve what they get.
I don't think we should expend effort trying to protect the blantantly ignorant who don't even want to look out for themselves.
It is futile to try to teach those who dont' want to learn, why bother.
Of course you have to call me naive (wait didn't I say someone would)
The stupid, immature, public school, god help the workforce part is really classic. Vague allusions to the quality of my post really don't prove anything, and are just useful for distraction.
I think the lesson these ignormant investors need to learn is more important then punishing the offenders.
and of course a rebuttal
>i don't think they were all that vague.
I don't think this statement is very specific
the rest of your response is equally immature so i'm not going to bother addressing it.
Was anyone REALLY expecting anything different from these guys?
Maybe it is time for some big publicity and then all these people doing this investigative work can get back to doing something a bit more productive.
Productive meaning work on stuff for me, which includes pretty much anything except repeating that LinuxOne is a hoax gone terribly wrong (right?)
And no, this is not a flame to those that expose these misleading statements and stuff, as that is an important thing. But if we spend our entire days looking at what others are doing, we don't get anything done, that is why I am not going to business school, I want to get some work done.
I'm sorry.. I haven't had a laugh like this in a while..
/. poster, they'd have -120 karma..
LinuxOne now has negative credibility.. If they were a
BTW, LinuxOne! Yeah, you! Perhaps you should hire some actual programmers! Take me for example! I wrote essentially your entire 'LinuxMac' in an afternoon! Hell, just troll a the computer lab at your local community college! At least the newbies there have learned to properly catch white-space padding!
.sig: Now legally binding!
You have to have brains to pull off a successful swindle; That's why LinuxOne is tanking in so early. Look at some of the other big swindles!
Charles Ponzi, graduate of the University of Rome: Gave us the modern 'bubble scheme'. Made millions paying his early investors with the deposits of later ones.
William Gates III, college dropout, holder of several honorary degrees: Sold billions of dollars worth of an Operating System look-alike. Maintained his income through shady contracts and the media.
LinuxOne, questionable education: Simple compound stock swindle based on marketing-hype and optioning of Wall Street buzzwords. Uses the same structure as the failed 'gas-saver' swindles of the fifties and sixties; Offer stock based on UberUseful product coming to market, place stock in escrow with uninterested party, sell stock and run with cash to extradition-free island nation.
Shylocks, hucksters and con-artists of any ilk should be laughing outloud at LinuxOne. Why isn't the financial world??
.sig: Now legally binding!
As a female, I find your implication that only a male can lie and pretend he should be respected for doing it offensive.
--Jeff
(No, I'm no female. But if I were, I would have posted this anyway)
I was leading the SALESPERSON on? If you read the transcript, I believe you will find the opposite is true. If I had not known a damn thing about anything, I would have been led to believe that apache was a server architecture, RPM is a programming language, and EVERY distribution of Linux is insecure. I fed absolutely no information to this person, yet you insist that I "lead the person on with false data". I would have at least said that perhaps they were slightly misinformed. Letting someone carry one like that (at least from where I come from) is bad manners. If someone says something stupid I don't just let them hang themselves. I was leading the SALESPERSON on? If you read the transcript, I believe you will find the opposite is true. If I had not known a damn thing about anything, I would have been led to believe that apache was a server architecture, RPM is a programming language, and EVERY distribution of Linux is insecure. I fed absolutely no information to this person, yet you insist that I "lead the person on with false data". You then asked if there were methods of programming in rpm and such. I am sorry as I cannot view your page now but I got the impression that you were toying with the person and allowing them to continue to think that what they said was correct when it wasn't. It would be like talking to a small child and snickering behind their back.
Slashdot social engineering at it's finest
http://www.linuxone.net/flames.html. Your company asks for flames? If people constantly flame you, then perhaps you need better PR, not a form for them to try and win a T-shirt.
Granted, the supposed investors would be pissed.. assuming they even exist.
Disclaimer: I am assuming a joke... well, basically because I can't believe they would still be trying to do this for real.
--------------------------------------------------
Nixon got in trouble because of what his tapes revealed, not for making tapes in the first place. Anti-taping laws apply to telephone conversations (and rock concerts.) Other than that, you can wear a wire wherever you want, especially in public.
Oops, what I meant to say, in response to a different posting no less, was that entrapment laws apply only to cops. Eliciting and publishing damaging information isn't libel, because it's the target's own statements that are damaging. Entrapment means a cop can't encourage you to do something illegal and then arrest you for it.
Is this Peter C. Norton the same guy on the cover of Norton Antivirus, Norton Utilities and other such things?
I know the guy on the cover of those is also Peter Norton. Just wondering if it was the same person.
Addressing point number 2, you must realize that the comments posted here by other people are not representations of Andover, Slashdot, and Va.
To imply that they are, and then try to invoke some racial tension with the statement is poor form. But, we've learned not to expect anything better from LinuxOne.
I'm glad that the slashdot community is now aware of this magnificent product which even with its minor flaws will enhance the quality of our living and make world a better place for all of us.
People have been doing a great job of checking out every claim LinuxOne makes so far and documenting their every lie, exaggeration, omission, and plagiarism. It would be great if someone were to collect pointers to this stuff onto one page: sort of "Steaming Heap of Truth about LinuxOne." It would be a good resource to point news-types to (or anyone who might be inclined to take this troop of cheats at face value), especially since the source material is from many sources (Business Week, Motley Fool, and LinuxToday as well as /.).
Jenny
I just surfed over to LinuxOne's website, and it seems that they are chaning their ways. They're holding a flaming contest. Yes, every week the winning flame recives an "I flamed LinuxOne! T-shirt.
<br>
Maybe it's their way of saying "Laugh now, but we'll have the last laugh."
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Source code for their distribution is here. Looks like some repackaged RedHat 6. HoHum. How exciting. Real innovation here.
What other fun stuff can I pull from their site today....
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
OK, we all know LinuxOne is a sham. Why do you guys keep wasting space on these bozos? There are so many other things in life to talk about here, and yet LinuxOne appears almost every week. If I were involved with LinuxOne, I'd personally be thanking CmdrTaco for keeping me in mind and providing the /. constituency visibility of my products.
As a cattle rustler, I find threats of lynching very troubling, but I do not blame VA Linux.
2. To Andover and Slashdot, as an African-American it is troubling to read threats of lynching on this board, but if that's how VA Linux Systems and Slashdot choose to handle its business competitors, so be it.
Tolerance, my friend, is what allows people like us to live with people like you. And what part of your African-American heritage troubles you when you read /. ?
I know I deserve to be down-moderated, but this guy has got some nerve. The typical con-artist crying at the police station about his three starving children and collecting some money from the cops to bring dinner home. ;-)
And this obcession with LinuxOne has no connection with the fact that everybody is tired of bashing M$ and uncle Bill. You just pissed too many nice people. That's not the way to do business with these nice folks that write free software or open source software.
2. To Andover and Slashdot, as an African-American it is troubling to read threats of lynching on this board, but if that's how VA Linux Systems and Slashdot choose to handle its business competitors, so be it.
As an African in America it is troubling to see yet another black man hide behind so-called racism once they are caught in a bad situation.
As a programmer who one day hopes to contribute code that it will be GPLed it is troubling that a fellow black man may hide behind racism to justify the reasons his company refused to abide by my license.
By the way slashdot and VA Linux do not in any way control the content on this "board", so your comments on lynching should be directed at the posters of those comments and not Slashdot or VA Linux (I hope you don't think by playing the race card you will get them to censor those posts?)
That we've fucked up is not in dispute.
Glad you realize...we all mess up every once in a while but your company is taking this to the next level.
That we had the balls to come to New York should also not be in dispute.
It takes balls for a legitimate company to come to computer expo?
And, when we succed in our re-engineering and overhaul of our practices we'll expect the same level of coverage of that too. Beleive me when I say I'll be on your website every other day checking up on it and once there's any mention of a "successful engineering" slashdot will be flooded with submissions.
PS: I had a whole bunch of semi-technical questions regarding why you're sales staff don't know what RPM is (or that the R in it stands for Red Hat), or that VA Linux doesn't sell a linux distro or that your website runs Red Hat but I decided against it before I get accused of lynching you as well
So, will you report on something worhty of our time?
That we've fucked up is not in dispute. That we had the balls to come to New York should also not be in dispute. And, when we succed in our re-engineering and overhaul of our practices we'll expect the same level of coverage of that too.
Your company would gain a great deal of credibility if it would withdraw the projected IPO. If there is no pending IPO on the table, then your people are free to talk about your products and intentions. The "quiet period" is seen by many as a shield. And if there is no pending stock distribution in the works, the Linux community can discuss your technical contributions without speculation each time on whether any particular statement or event is designed to play with stock values.
Your comments make the statement that your company is positively working on rehabilitating itself after a shaky start. We would take the rehab process much more seriously if the IPO were not looming so closely. (could someone tell me if an IPO can be withdrawn without prejudice after the process is started?)
Rehab the company first. THEN sell it.
2. To Andover and Slashdot, as an African-American it is troubling to read threats of lynching on this board, but if that's how VA Linux Systems and Slashdot choose to handle its business competitors, so be it.
Funny, I didn't know that Andover and Va Linux Systems could be considered "competitors" of a company that supposedly just makes a Linux distro. And of couse, I'm sure I'd be wasting my time by explaining that slashdot.org doesn't control the content posted on this board and so any threats of "lynching" woudln't be an example of " how (they) choose to hande (their) business competitors."
From the LinuxOne Products page: As a MAC OS/LinuxPPC user I find this langauge highly offensive. From your informative posts I knew these guys were not terribly bright, but I did not expect them to be abusive...
Still, you have to expect a little guano arround any large penguin colony...
Consider this scenario:
Everyone already knows that their distribution is just other's work with minimal changes. In fact, this information is being spread far and wide. Suppose that sometime soon they release a new distribution. Many people will look it over if only out of a sense of morbid fascination. If they then discover a truly innovative product which sets LinuxOne out ahead of the rest, and LinuxOne suddenly starts to play well with others, they will have a ready made market share.
How do you distinguish yourself from the others when there is a long list of distributions already available? If they just release a new product, it will just be one in a field of many. If they earn hatred first and then reform spectacularly, they will then have Kermit the Frog's undivided attention.
pornking
It would seem logical that Linus's lawyer would be able to do something about this, as they did with the domain prospecters recently. It makes sense to try to get past this as quickly as possible rather than turning it into an even longer debate than it already is (as we are prone to do wayyyy too much dammit). It's stuff like this that can really hurt Linux's chance in the business environment for all of us. Shut em down before they cause real harm.
Apparently they're trying to downplay all the crap they've been getting by publically posting it to prove they aren't afraid of it (I guess, what other reason would there be?).
Even Windows is just DOS with wallpaper... - Jordan Pollack
Is it possible for any legal action to be taken against these guys? Like false advertising, or misrepresentation or something? Investigating it is great, but can't someone DO something?
---Bless those silly trolls---
Touche.
---Bless those silly trolls---
I assume you are referring to the "I got the hammer and nails" post. Since he/she probably didn't know that you were African-American until now, it's a safe bet that has nothing to do with anything. His comments are most likely inspired by a belief that your company is either staffed by incompetent developers or is a complete fraud.
It may be true that VA Linux happens to own the network which hosts Slashdot, but I find it hard to believe that the Slashdot readers who post negative articles and comments about your company are all pawns of VA Linux under orders to spread bad press about LinuxOne. Frankly, since VA Linux actually has a product (unlike LinuxOne which appears to be distributing RedHat with a different label on the box), they probably don't even care.
That we've fucked up is not in dispute.
If by "fucked up", you mean "deliberately attempted to mislead," or "distributed someone else's product with our name on it," then you are correct.
You want to know why no one likes LinuxOne? Because your practices stink of Microsoft. The company that distributed a version of Intergalactic Research's Q-DOS and charged $60 for it, and then went on to rip off the Macintosh GUI and charge $180 for it. Your practices (and Microsoft's) may not be illegal, but they're pretty lame.
And, when we succed in our re-engineering and overhaul of our practices we'll expect the same level of coverage of that too.
The best software companies are the ones with products that inspire nerds to say things like, "Whoa! That's really cool!" Assuming you're not trying to pull some kind of IPO scam, and your programmers aren't 3rd string losers, and you really want to clear your name, then hack some badass code that makes us all ooh and ah.
---Bless those silly trolls---
We are in the midst of the evolution of a revolution brought about by a young Finnish student, Linus Torvalds. He created a versatile, UNIX- like operating system while attending the University of Helsinki. Students all over the world are being turned on to Linux as an alternative for a number of reasons.
Linux is an operating system created by a student for the benefit of all students.
Inexpensive - The next best thing to mac and cheese is inexpensive software.
Nightmare crashes can be avoided with the stability of LinuxOne OS.
Unix-type system allows programmers to feel the power.
X-perience the alternative.
Open source code means total software freedom. Add features copy and share at will.
New device drivers to keep up with new technologies.
Education - LinuxOne Lite available for first time users, no technical experience necessary.We are in the midst of the evolution of a revolution brought about by a young Finnish student, Linus Torvalds. He created a versatile, UNIX- like operating system while attending the University of Helsinki. Students all over the world are being turned on to Linux as an alternative for a number of reasons.
Linux is an operating system created by a student for the benefit of all students.
Inexpensive - The next best thing to mac and cheese is inexpensive software.
Nightmare crashes can be avoided with the stability of LinuxOne OS.
Unix-type system allows programmers to feel the power.
X-perience the alternative.
Open source code means total software freedom. Add features copy and share at will.
New device drivers to keep up with new technologies.
Education - LinuxOne Lite available for first time users, no technical experience necessary.
You're forgetting that the latter dropped out early, and, more importantly, assuming that the former went to one in the first place. Doesn't take a HS diploma to run a scam, ya know...
// zyqqh
...is Derek Simkowiak's page documenting his dialogue with them. URL: http://www.kd-dev.com/~dereks/linuxone/ . If anyone has been compiling similar information, post it up here too.
// zyqqh
Please contact me:
Richard Bottoms
Dir. Business Development
LinuxOne
rbottoms@linuxone.net
or call
650.948.6201
2. To Andover and Slashdot, as an African-American it is troubling to read threats of lynching on this board, but if that's how VA Linux Systems and Slashdot choose to handle its business competitors, so be it.
That we've fucked up is not in dispute. That we had the balls to come to New York should also not be in dispute. And, when we succed in our re-engineering and overhaul of our practices we'll expect the same level of coverage of that too.
r.b.
I'm just wondering if their Underwriters have good lawyers. There's been enough said, and I do recall seeing a letter and response someone sent to them questioning the company. I have absolutely no idea what type of due diligence is expected of an underwriter, but if any of these comments are even partially accurate, I have a feeling anyone subscribing to the IPO is gonna end up looking for bucks. (Don't underwriters usually eat underscribed issues? With that possibility, couldn't that get just a tad expensive in itself?)