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Thinkpads For Penguin Lovers: Q3 2000
MikeFM writes: "It looks like IBM is set to release
Linux Thinkpads! This is great news to my ears. I am just holding out for a Transmeta powered Linux Thinkpad and then I can be happy. I do hope these Thinkpads are compatible with other versions of Linux though. I always use either Debian or Mandrake. Being that these would have limited use as a server I'd probably go w/ Mandrake." Question is, why so long? Thinkpads have been running Linux for a long time, after all.
Why bother with a thinkpad when Dell has a very nice 1400x1050 SXGA+ display available on their Inspiron 5000 (I have one - runs linux just fine and the display works great with the patches from http://intern.linpro.no/~janl/inspir on-5000.html)
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a truck load of tapes
--
Unselfish actions pay back better
Its a big deal, if you look at why it is important. Sure, you've been able to run linux on IBM laptops for a while now, but the real story is that a major manufacturer is coming out and not only saying 'Yes, you can run linux on these laptops.', but is also saying 'Not only that, but we'll install AND support it for you as fully as we would Windows.'
:)
Choice is good. I can see people ordering it with linux on it 'just to try'. This is a nice-sized step towards getting more linux out there... even if it IS Caldera.
I wonder how long until other companies follow IBM's example?
Fascinating and quite entertaining.
I mean, wtf? I was hoping to get some daemon lovin' before 5.0! Oh well, at least Solaris will always be my slut. >:)
This looks promising, though... though not the level of Stile's Linux stuff.
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I like to watch.
This is about 2 years out of date but is useful. http://www.macevolution.com/hotchip.html It says the wattage of various chips. A Powermac G3 chip uses 4-5 watts also.
This is just another example of IBMs avowed support for Linux. You can bet that IBM sees this as a huge opportunity. One thing I'm wondering is if we will be seeing Thinkpads with multiple operating systems on sale? There are a lot of consumers who would love the chance to try Linux while having Windows as a crutch to use in the meantime.
--- One world, one chance Doc.
Does IBM still make PowerPC-based laptops? I remember they did have a few models available a while back,but I've never found anything on IBM's site.
--srj/mmv
Wine wont be a major player till it reaches 2.0 (short of Never) with 1.0 finaly comming along.
I use wine all the time for most of my games (just got Tribes working) but it is far from being the holy grail.
I like it alot but I'm sorry to say we wont get to see wine/linux come to be a major enduser OS till linux 3.0
Free Unix? Free Windows. http://www.reactos.com
My circa-1996 90Mhz ThinkPad runs Slack just fine, too. Agreed re: winmodem. I have a PCMCIA modem and ethernet card (one of each), and both work like a charm.
http://www.goingware.com/laptop
Note that the machine came with Windows 98 installed and doesn't support NT; NT was the most difficult installation and still doesn't work very well.
On the other hand I've been testing the 2.4.0-test1-ac* kernels every few days and generally they work pretty well. The only serious problem I had was that my Adaptec 1480 SlimSCSI card didn't work; that wasn't a problem with the laptop itself but some problem in the Linux PCI drivers as well as a temporary bug in the SCSI driver. Recent 2.4.0 kernel patches work great and I can burn CD's off my laptop through SCSI.
If you're considering buying a laptop, I encourage you to read my page on my laptop, as I think the information I give could improve the wisdom of your choice.
Generally I've been happy with how it works, but I'm afraid I'm not so happy with the mechanical design of the thing; there's a ribbon cable in the DVD drive that gets tangled when I close it if it's been opened too far, and the most serious problem right now is that the power adapter doesn't always make good contact so the battery drains even when it's plugged in. Sometimes if I leave the house with Linux running it will power down while I'm away. Note that I've only had the unit for 7 months; if they could have the same electrical design but built for more rugged use I think I'd be happy.
-- Could you use my software consulting serv
I'd think they'd only have to pay an OEM price to the Linux distro if the distro itself was going to handle support. It'd be impossible for the distro to charge a per-seat price if they weren't offering some additional service above what you get from a free download of the software.
:)
As far as the Microsoft tax goes, many OEM's actually have to pay more to Microsoft if they don't include Windows on the machines. Though after thinking it over this may be a winning plan, I'd gladly pay money not to have Windows on my machine. Anyone else willing to send Microsoft $50/yr not to write software or otherwise interfere with decent computers everywhere?
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
I wonder if they'll be significantly cheaper than their propriety-software-running counterparts?
They will probably be the same as Win98/2000 notebooks. Dell's notebooks that come with Linux as an option are the same price. They come with the "full" version of Red Hat with the support, manual, etc. Plus it's pre-installed and configured for the hardware.
andy j.Stupid Cheap Guitars
I think you may be right about the MHz speed being an albatross. MHz is a weird rating. I think non-techies might believe that clock speed is roughly the same has a combustion engine's horsepower rating.
AMD was certainly bitten by this same confusion in the consumer's mind.
Anyway, I currently run redhat 6.2 on my IMB thinkpad 390x. Installation was a dream. It found the sound card, the Xircom card (which is not official supported) and X worked at 16-bit, 1024x768.
The day major hardware/software makers DON'T support a major release for Linux and that story makes it to /., you know Tux has become a 500 pound gorilla. :-)
- Retail (most expensive)
- Volume/OEM discount ($$ per system shipped w/MS software)
- model license (least expensive, includes "kickback" advertising money - ever wonder why Toshiba proudly announces their new laptop runs Win?? Cause MS helped pay for the advertisement!)
Retail is obvious, highest cost per seat.Volume/OEM discount is when a comapny pays a lower price for each actual shipping copy of MS software - this allows a Mfg. to sell servers without WinNT at a lower cost, but each copy of WinNT they do sell costs more than their competitors.
Model License means the company agrees to pay MS for some pre-determined software collection based on the number of units of a particular model they sell (tecra 8100 laptop, for example). Now in order to get this cheapest software, the Mfg. agrees that *only* MS (OS) software will be installed, and the Mfg. will pay *per system* (meaning everyone gets the MS OS). The Mfg. take this deal because it lowers their cost for both software *and* advertising, since MS will subsidise advertising for 100% MS laptops/desktops/servers.
For a Mfg. to sell a (in this case) laptop without MS software, they need to either create a new model, that is free of the MS model license and it's MS tax (and forgo the subsidised advertising) or "eat" the MS tax and not include the MS software that was paid for.
I suspect IBM found a way to preserve the Thinkpad name and not mess up any pre-existing discounts on MS software for the other models.
Ken
I suspect people don't complain more just because the look and feel of the machine is so nice. The keyboard and trackpoint mouse are fantastic, the screen is nice and crisp, and the assembly quality is best in the business.
There are tons of reasons to like the ThinkPad even though (as I said in another message) the X-Windows performance lags a bit.
D
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...than for an equivalently equipped Win98 box.
My suggestion: buy it with with Windows (you're paying for it anyway with Dell) and install Linux yourself.
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
Anyway, if you're in the market for a very good linux laptop and (a) you want it next week and not in Q3 or whenever IBM ships, and (b) you have a life and can't waste your time configuring one yourself from scratch, then definitely check out these guys. They have a good product and are very friendly.
I've found that other laptop users in coffeeshops will try to casually peek at your screen to see why your windows desktop looks so weird. :-)
Why would they? Dell gets by charging more for Linux loaded computers. Last I checked it was about $100 more for a Linux load on a machine than a Windows load on the same machine. Really sad.
Bite my yammer.
Has anyone thought of how they are going to handle to root password and setup?
Are they going to leave it as a default password and let people like me tinker with other people thinkpads left unattended without changed passwords.
Is there a way they are going to have it prompt them for a root password when they first start it up?
I am just wondering, in all the Linux distro's I've used you had to set the root passwd on install...
...and I'm not sure we should trust this Kyle Sagan either.
I just got a Toshiba Satellite Pro 4200 series and it works fine (P3-450/128/6GB). I had to buy a NIC because that wasn't included. So I bought a Intel/100 Pro Cardbus32. BUT, there's no damn drivers for this NIC (PCMCIA). I also checked the 2.3.99-9 kernel. I have mailed Intel, but havn't got any response yet. Now days I run Win2000 instead and run VMware, which emulates an old fashion NIC, slow/expensive, but it works
They ship boxes with BSD on them, but when I called and asked for a windows free Thinkpad or a FreeBSD Thinkpad, I was told no go.
No offer was made to ship it with Linux. (Not that I wanted that either)
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
I guess ThinkPads are OK, but all the ones I've seen are big and bulky and squarish. I've been contemplating buying a laptop to run Linux. (my company supplied Compaq has to run NT because I need the Nortel Extranet client and Outlook to access the intranet via VPN and get my work mail). I just can't see spending a bunch of money on a big short lived laptop though. I'm still hoping for Transmeta comes up with something more than vapourware. A low priced, light weight, long battery life Linux laptop would be great if it supported everything (including modem, sound, suspend/hibernation, and network). I don't need a superfast CPU or even tons of RAM or hard disc.
Or maybe IBM got them to provide tech-support for the Linux laptop users.
My other first post is car post.
...to install linux on any laptop (from my experience). Why do you need a seperate X server? the SVGA works just fine. Why seperate mouse drivers? A standard PS-2 mouse works.
I think the only thing new with this article is the fact that IBM will officially support it.
No coincidence.
#]mount pengiun
mount: Only root can mount pengiun.
#]root penguin
...
See ?
The only problem is, a 1 GHz Crusoe chip wouldn't perform as well as an equivalently clocked P!!! or Athlon. Of course, you're also not going to see 1 GHz P!!! or Athlon notebooks for a long time anyway, thanks to the huge power consumption issues, but I just wanted to remind of the "megahertz trap" too many people fall into, thinking that the clock speed of the processor has anything to do with its actual speed.
Most Slashdot readers know the difference between performance and clockspeed, but I think this will be an issue that'll be important when Transmeta-powered equipment hits the mainstream notebook/PDA/appliance market: Joe Sixpack and Joe Marketing will get their Crusoe-powered notebooks, and realize, "Hey, what gives, this 1 GHz Crusoe notebook isn't any better than my P!!! 600 notebook. I've been cheated!" I fear that the clockspeed/performance differential between Crusoe and x86 processors will become an albatross around Transmeta's neck, possibly damaging its reputation among non-geeks. After all, the non-Geek would read that it takes a 1 GHz Crusoe to be as powerful as a 600MHz P!!! or Athlon*, and deduce that somehow the Crusoe is inferior, not realizing the Crusoe's strong points and completely different architecture. I fear that magazines for the semi-computer-literate will fuel the fire, magazines like those in ZD's stable of consumer-targeted stuff. A similar thing dogged the K6-2, though the K6-2 certainly didn't have Crusoe's low power consumption or nifty new architecture; but, not being clock-for-clock as powerful as P!!! or even Celeron did hurt its image.
*: The comparison here is pulled out of my ass rather than from actual figures since I don't have the time to look them up/calculate a good comparison, but they shouldn't be too far off the mark.
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."--Tacitus, *The Annals*
Okay, I'll bite. I'm a scientist. What do I want in a laptop linux system? If one has to transport bulky computers, then the answer is obvious. But there are other factors to consider.
First and foremost, software compatibility, either home-grown or from elsewhere. For home-grown code the question is does it compile and run the same. If one has a GUI interface program, does the GUI work? Ppl that post here seem to hate Motif/Lesstif. But compatibility is important for this specific case.
Is this a replacement for some other system? What type of system? Why change? To the latter question is the answer, because it is cheaper in terms of hardware and licencing costs. Additionally, if one comes from a Unix based environment, Linux provides a means to implement a mobile system. About 10 yrs ago, some company tried to sell a mobile Sparc system. AFAIK, this was not a financial success.
Problem: binary compatibility (aka the big/little endian problem). If you don't have conversion code or don't use XDR, then you have a serious problem.
I use a dual boot PowerBook. Other ppl that I work with use dual boot IBM's and Dell's. I've been trying to convince the powers to be that we can buy a good laptop system for the same price as the additional higher cost of shipping a bulky traditional workstation/computer. Note: laptops need to have effective access to large disk storage devices.
My personal bias: USB support is critical when it comes to laptops. The next one with be Firewire/ILink support. Good to see the 2.4.0-test kernel providing more support for this.
with other distro's "out of the box." At least, that is my understanding. The linux that is used has been modified to support the Crusoe's features. However, sincs it is all open-source, it should be trivial to get another distro working on it. It won't be possible to install it right off the CD, that's all. Also, is the version of linux running on top of the x86 emulation, or has it been compiled directly for the Crusoe's VLIW instruction set? After all, the whole point of VLIW was to leave less to the processor (because so much real estate on the advanced RISC chips is going towards branch prediction and such) and mvoe that work to the compiler. I'll bet that the performence gains from native compiled code would rock (not that I have seen the design of the Crusoe or would be competent to interpret it.) Still, one of the great benefits of open-source software is that it can be re-compiled for any platform. I would wonder if Linus or any of the other Transmeta guys could comment (we know you read /. Come on now.)
I don't think governmental action will be the answer to what ails the software industry. I think free software is.
--Bob
1^2=1; (-1)^2=1; 1^2=(-1)^2; 1=-1; 1=0.
I believe that Crusoe's software is all below the OS level. To the OS it's just another x86 processor so any software that runs on Intel x86 should run on a Crusoe processor also.
Also they've said they won't be using the CPU at it's own instruction-set level both because it'd defeat the purpose of code-morphing software and also because the processor is designed specificly to be run by a code-morpher and isn't appropiate to use without the code-morphing layer. Important features of a CPU are left to the code-morphing layer. Transmeta's version of Linux, to my understanding, is just a normal lite version of x86 Linux w/ a few extra's thrown in (all which are still open so don't worry).
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Hmm, let's see, I'm running RH6.2/Xfree86 4.0/E 16.4 on my 770Z and it works perfectly. The sound isn't painless, but it can be gotten to work. No problems with the PCMCIA ethernet devices or serial, and I've never had a docking station. The bios is not really secret, only different from the standard AMI/Phoenix style bios. They won't have to port the configurator because it's already been ported, check out the tpctl homepage. I've used several different brands of laptops over the years and I've found that brand doesn't necessarilly matter, though specific models may, or even small batches of a single model may exhibit certain problems. Your circumstances may very well be unique.
I used to sell Thinkpads running Debian GNU/Linux under the Linux Laptops Ltd. brand.
JWZ is right: they are buggy as hell. IBM documents the bugs candidly as "Considerations" in their manual, so they happen in Windows too. Thus, the answer to JWZ's question is, "No, it will be just as buggy under Linux as under Windows."
Incidentally, the IBM laptop drives were the least reliable of any I handled. I never had a Toshiba or Hitachi drive fail, but lost two IBM drives during burn-in.
The BIOS access problem, though, has been mostly solved by Thomas Hood's "tpctl" program. IBM, uniquely, has provided a protected-mode interface to the BIOS so that you can reconfigure BIOS modes without shutting down Linux. Furthermore, IBM's PS2 program runs under DOS, so you still don't need Windows even for the things tpctl doesn't do.
I did get suspend/resume mostly working... on some models you have to unplug from the power main before popping out a network card. Also, you have to have all your programs close the sound devices first, or you won't get sound again until you cycle power. (Rebooting isn't enough!) Thus, the "esd" sound mixer daemon component of Enlightenment, or the equivalent in Gnome, messes up the hardware on suspend. It is useless to try to run APM event scripts: IBM's BIOS doesn't deliver the events, at least on the 600. (The 570 seemed to do better.)
I suspect the buggy BIOS is because they don't really have actual I/O devices; they are all simulated by the DSP gadget that also does the modem. The whole mess is probably so complicated they dare not touch it for fear of breaking something else too. At least, each model has a different set of bugs, and they never get fixed, year after year.
Why do people not complain more? Maybe because very few buy it with their own money, and maybe because most who have them are managers and don't really use them, or spent so much they feel they *must* have got their money's worth; or are embarrassed not to have done their homework. Your guess is as good as mine.
7IMHO, This is so fucking stupid!
Listen there is what 50+ differant winmodems on the market, everyone and there mother has a differant winmodem right? What does Lucent (IBM??) have to lose by releasing the source to this drvier?
Will other companies be able to copy there winmodem? If so, who really gives a crap, there is already 50+ modems, does lucent really care if there is 50+ modems and 3 clones of there modem? It is not like Lucent has a %100 domination of the market and the ONLY winmodem, they don't. What could they possiable lose by realeasing the source?
Second, if there winmodem was the only modem that was supported by linux, don't you think they would get a short temp sales in this niche market, before other manufactors released there source code?
"`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" -THHGTTG
Of course, only an AC would make from of my friend the grammar nazi. You are too spineless to do it any other way.
Bringing irony to the Slash-masses
I've been considering a linux laptop for a while. I'm going off on vacation for over a month next year and would like to bring along a lap top for finding maps, checking email and journaling.
The only thing thats held me back is battery life. Does Linux handle the normal features that say Windows or MacOS does to preserve battery life?
Hmmm... I have a compaq presario with the same symptom -- battery "charges" then goes dead in 10 seconds to 10 minutes. Think it might also be a dc/dc converter problem?
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
I wonder if IBM could release the source to OS/2 or if they have some legally binding agreement with Microsoft?
I would of really like to see IBM kick the crap out of Microsoft with OS/2, even though I never used the OS. Let me re-phase that, for entrainment purposes, I would like to see IBM kick the crap out of Microsoft with OS/2
If OS/2 was say GPL, Microsoft won't really have any direct enemey to attack...
"`Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it.'" -THHGTTG
I have linux running on my thinkpad, it's an old 755c, which is a 75MHz 486 DX. The thing is, i'm having a hell of a time trying to get X running :P I wish IBM released more specs about their LCD screen.
-motardo
If a driver works on one linux, it works on any linux. They all use the same kernel -- that's what makes it *linux* and not the Hurd or something.
Caldera 2.3 has two really nice installation features; one, it lets you play video games while it installs. Two, once it's done installing, you don't have to reboot; just pop out the CD and go install on the next machine. Whee! Kinda cool. Witness The Awesome Power of Chroot().
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
Yeap. Outside of downloading the drivers for the display and the internal modem; it's 100% compatible with Red Hat 6.1. on mine too.
Yes, it does. I'm posting this from Netscape 4.73 under Mandrake 7.1.
My only question: why such a huge install? If I hadn't edited out some packages, it would have been over 1.5gb! As it is, I was only able to get it down to 1.1gb.
Granted, hard drives are huge and cheap these days, but what about my ThinkPad P133? It only has a 2.1gb hd, and I don't want it over half full with the OS.
Yes I know that you can slide that bar during install to lower the size of the install, but who knows what you're missing then? I spent about a half hour going through all the packages and deleting what I didn't want. Since it was still 1.1gb, which ones get deleted when you lower the size?
Anywaysssss, that's my mini-rant for the day.
Cheers.......................
I saw this, and it brought to mind just how far Linux has come. Think back a couple of years: two years ago, before Mozilla, before the "great database ports of '98", back when kernel 2.0 had been current for years, we were glad to see any mention of Linux, any hint of support. If IBM had so much as mentioned Linux on a web page, it would have rated a mention on Slashdot.
Anyone remember the "YALA" (Yet Another Linux Article) Stories? Back when any mention of Linux in a magazine other than Linux Journal warranted a Slashdot post?
Yet, today we complain when a major manufacturer is sluggish in pre-loading Linux. Not that we shouldn't complain, but I think it's an interesting contrast.
I look around, and I see a whole new band of Linux users. People who've never edited a Makefile -- who think that installing a program consists of "rpm -ivh" or, just maybe, "tar -xzvf" are becoming commonplace. Advanced users may know how to run "./configure; make; make install" -- but xmkmf (then editing the created makefile because xmkmf never worked right on any system I ever used) is a thing of the past. I don't resent these newcomers. In fact, I'm delighted to have them.
But it's definitely a totally different world from the Bad Old Days when I first ran Linux by booting from a floppy, then switching over to a root disk! (This was before lilo). No hard drives, no nothing. Anyone else remember SLS?
*sigh* I guess I'm getting old.
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-- Slashdot sucks.
That's funny. I find it difficult to believe someone would like DOS/Windows v3.x over 32bit OS/2. Heck, they could have run multiple instances of DOS/Windows v3.x INSIDE OS/2. They could have even made the OS/2 desktop look like DOS/Win3.x...
I don't run Windows but I sometimes help fix it and OS/2 v2.0 had a better desktop then todays Windows. It did need a Program Manager(Explorer) file browser for those used to it. Last I knew, OS/2 ran circles around NT v4. Is it still true for NT v5 (Win00)?
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
I wonder if they'll be significantly cheaper than their propriety-software-running counterparts?
when the rain comes, they run and hide their heads. they might as well be dead.
Does this mean they've solved their little Winmodem problem?
I'm being late in the day here, as this story is dropping down the front page. But several posts have complained as has The Register in their coverage of the same, that IBM aint been up to much recently.
No I hate to say it but ZDNet has been a little more thorough.
What intrigued me was th ehint in the linked article that IBm was going to release some office products for Linux at the same time. ZDNet's coverage of the same story is more enlightening. In fact better than IBM's linux home IMO.
It's going to take some time to bring Linux into the support levels and consistency that IBM's corporate customers want. But Thinkpads to AS400 and CICS or whatever else is IBM's game. Not one individual product offering or another.
Sometime soon the floodgates will burst and CIOs will *need* to evaluate enterprise Linux solutions seriously. IBM plans to be right there. Check out the links (including a promise for AS/400 port :)
IBM has been shipping ThinkPads with Linux for a couple of years now. A friend of mine at a former job was able to order, straight from IBM, a ThinkPad 600 (IIRC) with RedHat 5.2. They have been quietly shipping them this way if you requested it. Its good to see them being more open about it.
--Storm
Ick, why'd they choose Caldera? I suppose if it works with Caldera, it'll probably work with other distros as well though...
__
Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
But you had to buy windows with it and install linux yourself. :] but Seriously now the ibm thinkpad I series seems to be 100 percent linux compatible ive been running red hat 6.X on my 1400 since i got it 8 or so months ago.
Given this, I see no strong evidence the Crusoe at 1 GHz will be necessarily slower than a PIII at the same clock speed. Anybody can comment on this?
It's most likely taken so long because official support costs money - you have to have a bunch of people able to deal with questions. Presumable IBM have only just reached the point where they feel the cost of offerring Linux as a supported OS is worth it.
there's also a company called tuxtops that had cute lookin laptops. However, I emailed them and they dont currently have plans to use transmeta or arm processors... i may invest in a transmeta thinkpad when they're available :) if the price is right anyway :)
I had been starting to evaluate laptops; I'm currently using an older Thinkpad. I was really hoping that I'd be able to get IBM to sell me a non-Windows laptop.
:)
Now, it looks like all I have to do is wait one to three months.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Too bad there won't be any machines like this based on Athlons anytime soon. AMD is having some serious problems with power consumption.
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Oscarfish.com: tropical fish with attitude. Way t
Although I'm on a Toshiba right now, I've had the privilege of being assigned three ThinkPads over the course of the last two years. They are far and away my favorite laptops.
It's not glamorous, but one of the most useful features of the ThinkPad line is the third "mouse" button. In its default configuration, it allows you to scroll windows vertically or horizontally by holding down the third button and moving the TrackPoint. It's great for those situations where you don't want to pound the Tab key a hundred times so you can use the arrow keys to scroll, and you don't want to mouse over to grab the scroll bar.
I assume that this feature will be supported in the new Linux boxes?
The heart has reasons that reason does not understand. - Jacques Bènigne Bossuet
I have a Thinkpad 770ED, and man, it sucks.
It's been relegated to a sad life as a desktop machine, because any time I try to do anything even remotely laptop-like with it, such as:
I did get sound working eventually, but not well enough to run Quake. And I was never able to get VMware to talk to the serial port or network for some unknown reason.
So does the fact that IBM is going to ship Linux on these laptops mean they're going to actually make the features of these laptops work?
Another problem with Thinkpads is that their BIOS is secret and weird, and the only way to manipulate most of it is via a Windows configurator program: so you can't delete Windows; it is your BIOS. I guess they'll have to solve this by porting their configurator to Linux...
The damn thing also eats batteries: three times now it's gone from "100% charge" to "0% charge" overnight, while plugged in to wall current, and from that point on, the battery won't take a charge at all: it becomes a $300 paperweight. This isn't some battery-memory situation, it just dies all at once, not gradually.
(PS: after that glowing review, anyone want to buy my Stinkpad?)
I've been drooling over those UltraSPARC notebooks for a long time. Lately I've been thinking of getting a quote on a refurbished one here. I'm a little afraid at what they'll tell me. My guess is $7k, minimum, for one of these babies new. The guy who recommended these people to me said that you can save %40 off list from them, but since RISC notebooks are a niche of a niche market, I think I'd be lucky to get %20 off list.
Apparently the manufacturer also sells refurbs.
This is the stuff that dreams are made of. Or this, if you're an HP-UX guy.
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I like to watch.
Theres a loyal following to the tadpole sparc books, plenty of people still use them. The thing is that most people don't need sparc features in a laptop. I'd take a sparc anything over a pc any day.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
I used to fix those things for a living. It sounds like you have a bad DC/DC card. If it's still on warranty, send it to your local thinkpad service center for repairs.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
As a dual boot box (Win 98 and Red Hat 6.2) it works great. Better still I can watch *my* selection of movies on long plane rides (why else get a dvd :-).
I've even had win 98 running under vmware on it.
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a truck load of tapes
I think Big Blue has a long memeory and they still have not forgiven Microsoft over OS/2. Anything they can do to stick it to MS they will do.
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a truck load of tapes
I think you're still haven't "lowered" yourself to the consumers level here. IMHO most members of the Sixpack family won't notice the difference between a Pentium at 600MHz and one at 1GHz. The vast majority will just go for the Gigahertz label at a good price, and then get a pleasant surprise from the extended battery life that Crusoe notebooks are likely to be sporting.
ZZ
And for those looking to install Linux on just about any laptop under the sun, the Linux on Laptops homepage is the place to look.
LL
"If you are falling, dive." -Joseph Campbell
So will these have 'Designed for Linux' stickers over the Windows 98/NT stickers?
--
Never hit your grandmother with a shovel, for it leaves a bad impression on her mind...
The "problem" with the WinModem is best solved by not using the WinModem at all. It doesn't even work quite right under Windows, and I think it was altogether a bad idea.
If you get a modem PCMCIA card (maybe a combo with Ethernet), you end up with a nice, fast, reliable, standard modem that works from both Linux and Windows. If you need your PCMCIA slots for something else, could go with a USB or serial port modem.
With IBM promising to churn out Thinkpads with Linux, I guess we would expect IBM to deal with all the funny laptop issues like power management and strange devices (win-modems, weird-ass sound cards, etc). Customers certainly wouldn't settle for a laptop with a built-in modem that doesn't work.
Now, if I already have an IBM Thinkpad, acquired in the pre-Enlightenment era when win-doze contaminated your hard drive when the laptop arrived, where most things work under Linux, but not quite everything I would like, it seems that if IBM has to solve these issues for future Thinkpads with Linux pre-loaded, these solutions can also be applied retroactively to my little laptop.
Does this seem reasonable, or am I living a pipe dream?
Donny
#]mount pengiun
mount: Only root can mount pengiun.
#]root penguin
...
"pengiun?" is that anything like "penguin?"
8-P
if i'm a grammar nazi, you're an illiteracy nazi.
There is a Lucent Winmodem ( Imean Linmodem) driver. Check out www.linmodems.org
The link to the driver is www.linmodems.org/linux.568.zip
Yes, yes I do remember OS/2. Ever try and get an IBM-brand laptop or desktop computer with OS/2 pre-installed? Lots of them, right? Plenty of choice?
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
That'll help out a lot with the Linux partition on my Thinkpad!
Does anyone know how much power a typical laptop consumes overall? I think Crusoe sounds great, but I'd like a idea of whether reducing the CPU power usage from 29W to 4-5W reduces overall system power usage by 10% or 80% (or whatever it is).
that, will be the day we know linux has finally arrived.
We are now offering the same kind of operating system support for Linux as we do for AIX, OS/2, OS/390, OS/400 and NT.
Way to go IBM!
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Oscarfish.com: tropical fish with attitude. Way t
Do you think maybe they wanted to keep costs down and so they installed both OS's on all systems that would support it and let the user have a choice of what they wanted to use? So IBM knew they wanted Windows. Big deal.
As far as marketshare goes, haven't you kept up on the DOJ vs MSFT case? Anybody who mentioned OS/2 was threatened by MSFT. Didn't you hear how HP was ready to show 50% of its PC's at Comdex with OS/2 until MSFT told them not to? No HP PC's were shown running OS/2.....Nobody challenges a monopoly and makes a dollar in the process without that monopoly ALLOWING it to happen. Nobody.
(But one good reason was that at least WfW could get onto the network, unlike the braindead version of OS/2 they preinstalled.)
I paid the extra $200 to get Netware and TCP/IP networking in v2.0 and v2.1 and thought it was a $200 very well spent. A network connection in a poorly built single-tasking system was/is worthless. I agree it was dumb to wait until v3.0 Connect to include it. IMHO
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Sure, this is nice, but is it really a big deal? I've been running Debian potato/woody on my Thinkpad quite happily for some time now.
What I really hope they do is provide some documentation for people who want to install different distributions (like me). A copy of Red Hat pre-set-up is nice, but if I have to pull it apart to figure out what the proper drivers for the sound/ethernet/etc are, it would be a slight annoyance.
This is the truth, folks. Once we don't jizz our pants (almost) every time something new that's Linux-related comes out, it'll be mainstream.
... "Be a beacon?"
And not until then.
Mod the parent up, please. (Not this one, unless you're willing to mod us both up.)
--
"Give him head?"
"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft Ad
Not too compelling when you can get approximately the same level of Linux Compatability from a Sony VAIO and it's a much nicer computer. The IBM Thinkpad was the best laptop out there and as usual IBM rested on their laurels and were passed by other faster, smarter companies. They should just give up at this point and completely leave the PC market, since they can't build a good quality part that won't cost thousands more than anything their competitors put out.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I have a ThinkPad I series laptop which currently installed with the Windows 98 and Linux on it. Most hardware works fine in Linux, except the modem. Most laptop came with Winmodem, so the only solution probably is for the Laptop linux users to buy a PCMCIA modem.
Also, earlier version of 2.2. kernel has problem with some of the laptop sound cards (i.e. ESS). Only the recent few versions (2.2.13+) has the fix that actually will work properly.
Especially, in the kernel 2.2.16 it has a fix of the IBM ThinkPad APM which is probably necessary for every IBM Linux Laptop users.
Now, the only thing that is not working for me.... probably is the DVD drive of my laptop. I guess the only DVD player for Linux is probably only the KDVD. (I may miss others here, sorry).
So, hopefully if they are shipping DVD drive with the new IBM Linux Laptop, they will ship with a stable version DVD player in Linux.
It's nice to see IBM actually shipping non-Windows Laptop. Hope in the future, they will also ship the BSD and BeOS. That will be great.
============
Mathematics will always come back to hunt you down, in so many ways
The only real threat to Windows is something like an "MS-Linux with WINE exstensions", where the extensions would be trade-secret protected (Linux embraced a la Kerberos). Why is that so? Because if one is a keen observer of the past, one will find that the only way Windows overtook DOS is because it would run EXISTING DOS programs. The way windows is cathedralized, only MS can produce effective extensions to LINUX where Windows programs would run well. Then no one would hesitate to swith to Linux the new, the more powerful. It's for certain that they would protect those extensions. Notice also that double-booting, the current approach is complicated for most users, and that booting a system takes a lot of time, let alone double booting: shut down one, and then boot the other. (Ask and find out how many times a day people double-boot). Only Wine, running well, will do it.
IBM's page on setting up linux on a Thinkpad 600E is availible here (they admit that there is no support for the modem, and say that infrared _might_ work), a "how I installed linux on my 600E" page is here
Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
www.teslabox.com
IBM's new a20p has the same 15" 1400x1050 SXGA+, but it also has a 700Mhz PIII with speed step (saves power in battery mode). comes with 18 Gb of DASD, and up to 1/2 Gb of RAM. An ATI Rage Mobility with 16Mb capable of 1600x1200@16M colors. Pricewise the a20p is only slightly more expensive than the Dell you mention. and it has pretty much the same feature set. The biggest difference is in the trackpoint versus trackpad.
umm... hello?
Been There, Done That.
It was called OS/2, perhaps you remember it?
Anyway, as others have pointed out, this isn't really news, we've been shipping preconfigured machines with Suse, Caldera, Turbo and Redhat for some time now... all you have to do is place your order by phone and ASK for it. (assuming it's supported hardware.) There's a guy down the hall at work that just got a 600E preloaded... personally I'll wait for the a20's price to come down... or for a cruesoe based system... 'cuz I'll bet that 700Mhz mobile PIII will heat up a bit on ac power on your lap, I've already burnt my leg with an old 770... and that was just a 266 Pentium!
Can't use those cheap winmodems afterall :)
What'd be much more interesting would be if IBM ported its PM desktop to Gnome. Most of the underlying archetecture is already in Gnome, so it'd mostly involve porting the huge batch of desktop components they wrote.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
>Question is, why so long? Thinkpads have been running Linux for a long time, after all.
Wonder what modems they're gonna put in these?
Yes, the thinkpads run Linux -- I got myself a low-cost i-series 1440 at a surplus auction with the intent of installing linux. It came with 32 Mb and a 4gig drive and I figured that although the 366 celery would be kinda underpowered to run windows with only 32Mb, it would probably run Linux just file. It does.
Only real drawback is the Lucent Win-modem. Not really an issue for me since I have cable at home and I got an ethernet pcmcia card to plug into my LAN at home, and I plug into the LAN at work and I haven't really ever needed the modem for anything. But I'm probably the excepion.
My guess is that equiping thinkpad with a modem that will work under Linux might have been the holdup. Anyone know?
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
In contrast, RedHat 6.2 installed with minimal fuss. My PCMCIA cards work great under Linux, but not at all under OS/2.
a watt-sec is a joule.
as long as its a lesbian penguin, i have no issues...
Did I read that right? An upstart operating system? The thing is what, 9 years old? I wouldn't call that upstart, would you? They amke it sound like linux was written yesturday.
Anyway, it will be nice to buy a laptop w/o paying an MS tax or worrying about getting X to work with the touchpad and video screen. You can't change those like oyu can on a desktop.
Is it just me, or does it strike anybody else that there's something very, erm, down-right disturbing about the title of this article?
Stay up hacking each weekend. Sleep is for the week.
Somemore good news about the Microsoft break up.
Do you think that even Big IBM would have done something like this before Microsofts business practices came under carefull eye of the US Government? Nope, not at all. MS would called them up and said, "I think your OEM contract is going to increase ALOT unless you dump Linux".
Now with MS under control and getting punished for their past business practices we will now see more thing like this. More companies saying, "Hey! we can release products and hardware that dont support MS products only".
I dont know about you, but I think this is a good thing.
Linux O Muerte!
That having my compaq p233 ripped off by a smash and grab, replaced by their E500 shipped with a damaged screen may pave the way for a thinkpad loaded with a decent O/S and w/support? Way to go IBM! .... uh .... sorry Compaq?
I've been running Linux {RH 5.2, then 6.0, and now SuSE 6.4} on my Thinkpad 600E for 18 months. The Linux Laptop Page gives details of everything you need to know to get the Thinkpad working with Linux - with the exception of the dastardly inbuilt modem. I think the latest kernel's/installs actually make even that work - but it doesn't affect me because I've got a modem/LAN card in the PCMCIA slot. It's great to see IBM finally supporting Linux officially, but this isn't exactly late breaking news - it's been done.