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John Carmack on the X-box Advisory Board?
Prabhjeet Singh writes "Voodoo Extreme reports that John Carmack is on the X-Box advisory board. Here is the scoop. "According to PlanetXbox, id Software's John Carmack is now on the technical advisory board for Microsoft's X-Box console system". Check it out." The original source is on PlanetXBox. I tried reaching id for comment, but was unable to get through - this is still unsubstantiated.
no.
That's how they'll get their foot in the door. Gaming.
But with multiple functionality, Microsoft could easily eat a small proportion of the desktop market. The folks for whom computers are just too expensive, or complicated - they need SOME computer functionality (primarily gaming, yes, the web, ecommerce, email, obviously, financial planning services, word processing, multimedia/streaming video/audio), but they don't need the functionality, complexity, and expense of a CAD workstation, or C++ development workstation. Those people, who may currently have a PC, and know it's too much for their needs, and those people who just want a gaming console and find XBox more compelling with the extra features than dreamcast or ps/2, they're going to buy XBox.
This casual home market is a big market, and the game-console/DVD player/webTV browser is one hell of a gateway. Give them some limited PC functionality, and this thing will be on fire. Then give the developers a compelling development market like DirectX which gives them a very easy way to port between this huge console market, and desktop PCs, and the developers will forget OpenGL, ps/2, Macintosh, or anything else ever existed.
if it ain't broke, then fix it 'till it is!
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Hahaha. Its funny seeing a linux freak get pissed when Microsoft gets something good.
I doubt too many of those Japanese developers can code rings around him. Square? haha dont even make me laugh. perhaps they could make cgi better than him.
Namco? No... perhaps they could make a better game than him alone, but I doubt anyone working there knows more than him.
Capcom? No... they may make a better 2D fighting game, but I would like to see them try and make a FPS like Quake.
Konami? Maybe. But not one person there im sure knows more than him.
Remember, when you see an average game and you see an id game, look at the credits. An average games credits are minutes long watching. id's fits on ONE SCREEN.
It doesn't matter, many others are working on that project. Many are already using X on Darwin and I will be setting it up as soon as I finish off some of the other applications I am working on.
Those who code well are our gods.
Nice.
I'm just pissed because Jim Gray and Bruce Lindsay are my gods and none of you gamer geeks even recognize the names.
--Shoeboy
Ok boys and girls, take a deep breath and then repeat in unison:
"This is not the great, shocking news some of us make it out to be."
John Carmack is not God. John Carmack is, however, an expert in his field. Moreover, he is an expert who has sold millions of copies of his product. Guess what? That makes him someone even Microsoft will listen to when they're about to release something that will be of interest in his line of work.
In fact, that makes him someone other companies listen to as well (check some other posts for details). If you're a gaming hardware company, you're going to at least want to hear what the lead programmer of one of the most influential gaming companies (yes, yes, other games *may or may not be* more fun to play, but you must admit that Id products have more influence than any others) has to say.
Most likely, they'll buy Carmack another Ferrari just so they can say in their press releases that they have been advised by "The Master Himself".
(disclaimer: I'm a big fan of every game Id has put out so far)
News and bla for computer musicians: http://lomechanik.net/
Isn't the above post a flame?
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Another flame.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Yes... The original post was just me blowing off some steam about Microsoft buying Bungie -- a company that I used to (and still kinda) admire.
Case in point: Homeworld. Built on Direct3D, it's one of the best engines I've seen (for infinite-space horizons). No, it's not based on OpenGL, but should we avoid it entirely because it isn't?
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
I'm almost positive he's on advisory boards for both nVidia and 3dfx, and maybe even Apple.
Well, there's no advisory board as such for Apple, but it was Carmack's personal evangelism that convinced Jobs to dump QuickDraw3D and go with OpenGL, to name his most obvious influence. You can rest assured that what he has to say is at least considered seriously by Steve J., which is Apple for all practical purposes.
>Mike
>"I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet, tasty beer."
> --Homer Simpson
Actually the line is:
"I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet beer."
Instead of going on an angry rant about people that misquote The Simpsons, I will simply point you to www.snpp.org.
Please refer here for all futute quotes.
-hom3r
"People can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forfty percent of all people know that."
-Homer Simpson
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Would those "herd people" you mention be:
Careful there, I think your cud is showing...
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
There's no reason why Xbox won't support OpenGL. Even if it didn't come with opengl support right out of the box, it'd only be a matter of time before someone wrote the necessary drivers.
:-)
Microsoft could easily block OpenGL drivers though legal means. Just make a licence for the box that forbids development/deployment of any driver not approved by Microsoft. IMHO that's exactly the kind of stunt they intend to pull.
If Microsoft does manage to get a decent share of the settop box market you can expect all the usual evil business methods we have come to know and detest.
I fear that everybody - consumers, developers, competitors, distributors - are going to be taken for the usual ride if Microsoft's Xbox plans unfold as they intend.
The best form of protection the world could possibly get from dirty tricks connected with XBox is legal: if Microsoft wants to take a PC and call it an XBox, then the XBox will automatically become part of Microsoft's monopoly, and Microsoft will be prohibited in a rather direct way from playing games with its licence. That means the XBox will be a PC. That means we can put Linux on it. If we can put Linux on it, I really don't case what else Microsoft does with it.
On the other hand, if the XBox turns out not to be a PC, then I don't really care what they do with it: it won't be able to run PC games and, not having that single crucial advantage, it will be a lame duck in the market.
There are, of course, other responses to XBox than the purely legal. For example, if you are a game developer get a life and don't develop for it. That means don't develop for DirectX. If you are a decent developer you can make twice as much money doing network apps, or you can join the good guy game companies, for example, Loki. If you are not a decent developer, then by all means, continue developing developing for DirectX
This post will surely bring out the usual astroturfing Microsoft moderaters, so if you are one of those, take note: Don't bother. I already marked it down.
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Life's a bitch but somebody's gotta do it.
big deal. i think the xbox is going to take a dump, other than the keyboard i use i know of no MS hardware that is a comm'l success
How about mice and joypads? MS has a rather better record in hardware than software i.e. they take less than 3 attempts to turn it into something usable. I just wish that funky new mouse came in a left handed version.
Although I prefer Linux as an OS, not everything MS makes is bad. Their console will probably kick ass and having JohnC on the team can only make it better. Besides that, Nvidia designs de GPU (and they are known for their high quality OpenGL drivers) and JohnC already said that he would stick to OpenGL. So if MS is smart they will also implement OpenGL in the Xbox to make shure all the Id-3D-engines based games are easely ported.
The X Box does not yet exist.
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It's interesting about this article, because JC has previously recommended nVidia as the best card maker around. Guess who's the chip maker for the X-Box?
Hmm...interesting. I think we may be seeing Doom 2000/III/3 or whatever on the X-Box. Personally, I'd love to see Q3A on the NV25...
"... and in awe of Carmack probably somewhere between Doom and Quake. He writes some amazingly fast graphics stuff."
I always liked his work because of the stability. In Doom, if you go walking through and around things, the engine doesn't crash. You can even have monsters spill into the great void outside of the defined map, and spend hours running around nothing with only the HoM effect to keep you company..
Compare this with Duke3D which would crash so hard when you left the map (or sometimes, though holes in the map around doors), that after the first two versions, 3DRealms made it so that you dieded if you crossed a map boundtry (to stop the game from getting to where it could crash).
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Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Narrow is the path that leads to righteousness, and broad is the path that leads to destruction. ID seems to have chosen the latter of the two.
And, since the original msg got modded down, this one makes no sense if you don't read 0 and below msgs.
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova
Why? Microsoft gets feedback from an industry expert. John gets early access to information about hardware. It is beneficial to both parties.
Is that selling out? No way. From what I can tell, John is perfectly happy to speak his mind regardless of what the hardware manufacturer wants to hear. He still does care about Linux. He joined our (PI) technical meeting a few months ago. You're just seeing less of him recently because he's busy with his next product.
- |Daryll
First off, the Quake games only ended up on linux because he wanted his games ported to as many platforms as possible. It wasnt some personal crusade, he just wanted his games on tons of platforms. Look at all the other ones it was ported to.
Second, xbox isnt going to take any desktop operating share at all. ITS A GAMING CONSOLE. CONSOLE. CONSOLE. CONSOLE.
Get it? Everyone thinks that this is going to be windows in a box or something. Its not. its a strictly GAMING CONSOLE. You arent going to be doing your taxes on it. Your going to be blowing shit up on it.
You seem to be forgetting that NVIDIA will be making OpenGL drivers available for the X-Box (mentioned in the article on the X-Box in DDJ).
What are you talking about? Off-topic.
-- @rjamestaylor on Ello
But his games are technically still superior. Ever wonder why Quake 3 is used in every video card test? Because it is one of the most technically impressive games out there. Sure the fact that he makes good games is still up in the air, but the fact is that he knows how to code, and he does it well.
Pretty hackable? Remember, we are talking about Microsoft here. Embrace, Extend, Extinguish. Well, at least the first two.
Also, you bring up an interesting possibility for the distribution of games that will be made on the X-Box. I read somewhere that with all of Microsoft's holdings in and aquisitions of broadband providers, that they plan to develop centrally managed applications in the future, i.e. running Office on a central server somewhere, and having everyone use their computers as terminals. A pretty good stratagy for preventing piracy. Also a pretty good stratagy for absolute control over their own applications.
But this is only speculation...
Friends don't let friends use multiple inheritance.
Yes, but you know and I know that the information Sega's developers get from Microsoft regarding implementing DirectX will be shy of certain technical details that will make it difficult to impossible for Sega's hardware to match XBox in speed and stability. XBox will get the latest DirectX support updates as soon as possible. Dreamcast, whenever MS gets around to it. Embracing cross-platform on Microsoft begins with what looks like a good-faith effort, then slowly erodes in quality until you have something that looks and runs like IE on Solaris, or Microsoft Office for Macintosh 4.2.
The exceptions to this model, of course, are office98 for Mac, actually pretty decent, and IE 5.5 for Mac, very standards-compliant - but once the Windows version of IE 5.5 gets out there, and developers start developing for Windows' IE 5.5's particular implementation of CSS, etc., the Macintosh version of IE 5.5 will support a subset of sites, and again, the Mac users are marginalized, and begin to suspect that they might have a better web experience if they were using a Windows machine.
This is usually news to any person who has ever believed anything written in a factsheet on Microsoft's website.
if it ain't broke, then fix it 'till it is!
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Err. Standard NTSC supports up to 640x400 resolution, with 29.97 fps framerate. Just thought you might like to know.
_____
Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"
Download a fast DirectX Tetris Clone [276 k]
I think that sucks BTW. I dont even have a mac, and probably never will, but its bull that the game wont be making it to the mac. Probably not the PC either.
If Bungie was smart and wanted super bonus points they would release it for the PC and MAC.
You and the other three people who will account for all of Indrema's sales will still be able to write all the games you want for yourselves. Maybe you guys could team up with the 5 remaining OS/2 users and build something based on the old DOOM source. Lord knows the Open Source community could use another First Person Shooter! ;-)
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
There's no reason why Xbox won't support OpenGL. Even if it didn't come with opengl support right out of the box, it'd only be a matter of time before someone wrote the necessary drivers.
Former id guy, now at MS, working on Xbox. Scroll down to about the middle, where he says:
For those who prefer OpenGL, NVIDIA will provide a fully Xbox-enhanced version.
Your dream will come true.
NO, it looks like the XBox is independent enough to escape the ravages of conflicting corporate interests which would drag it down.
It will support OpenGL, that has already been announced. Why the heck are you commenting on this when you don't even no the most elementary and well publicised facts about the XBox? I know folks here have various axes to grind over the API issues but get the FACTS right. XBox will support OpenGL period. How many times does it have to be said before it sinks in?
Why the heck is a post with blatant factual inaccuracies moderated up?
Oh jeeze...
NO, OpenML is a different thing. It's for streaming video and such, it does not replace OpenGL.
Yes it is possible, but you lose half your vertical resolution. Next time you are using a legacy console, examine closely the lines on the TV screen. Notice how they are staying still. Next, change to a regular TV station, and notice how the lines appear to be moving down the screen (or up, depending on how your brain interprets the interlaced fields).
Download a fast DirectX Tetris Clone [276 k]
Hmm. I've downloaded SDL before just to try it out, and do development, and it compiles fine for me; but I can't think of an app that I've compiled that absolutely had to have it. Do you get any specific errors, and have you tried a packaged version of it instead?
:) and it is an excellent port. I beta-tested it, and I bought it, and the mouse movement can get somewhat sluggish, but it is still very playable, and I've gone through all the campaigns that come with it. :)
However, Heroes of Might and Magic III for Linux uses SDL, (since the guy who wrote it works for Loki
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
John C. prefers NT to Linux and he uses NT as his development system. He prefers OpenGL to Direct X, but he has stated in the past if MS improves DirectX and makes it better than openGL he'd use it. John would switch to Mac OS X in a minute if he thought it would be better. John plays with Linux he doen't rely on it, he can't. see the earlier X windows must die article and check out some openGL Linux vs Windows benchmarks to see why Linux and it's related software is lagging far, faaar behind other OS's in terms of preformance.
Its not obvious whether Carmack will make MS use OpenGL more, or if MS can buy him off to kill OpenGL.
If Carmack could get all that he wants in D3D, MS wouldn't even have to get him another ferrari.
Yeah, we should all use opengl. In fact we should punish anybody who doesn't use opengl. And then we should accuse microsoft of doing the same thing.
Did you stop to think that perhaps microsoft think they can do a better job and create a better api than opengl? And you know what? They were right! Well we'd better complain. They definitely didn't invent directx because they wanted something better than opengl. It's because they fear the big scary competition from you four blokes who use opengl for quake on linux, and they're trying to muscle you out.
You guys just don't geddit huh?
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
"Your computer video card that you're running right now probably can get comparable polys. What? You're saying that you've tested and you cant?"
Of course it can't - you will never get as many polys on a non-GeForce PC as you will on a GeForce-based PC, simply because CPU is the bottleneck - vertices have to be transformed on the CPU. Also, ever heard of "fill rate"? That's another factor. The bus speed on a GeForce card means it can simply draw everything it draws, much quicker. Who wants to use 320x240? Have you tried to play a game like Q3A at 320x240? It's a joke - you need the resolution.
And your stupid "27fps" argument - 3D games look much worse than TV at the same frame rate, simply because television images are blurrier and "ghost", creating artifical "motion blur". That doesn't happen on a PC with a 3D acceleration, 27fps looks terrible - not only that, but you need a higher update rate to react quickly enough to threats in the game - ask anyone who plays seriously - it makes a huge difference. Also you sit further away from a TV, and you don't need to aim a crosshair at somebody who is only 5 pixels high even at 1024x768, when you're watching TV.
Your arguments are bogus, and you lack technical knowledge - either that or you're just trolling.
Chances are that the X-box will be released with nVidia's next-generation GPU (after the GeForce2), which I assure you will last at least two to three years before it starts to seem slow (heck, game developers (with the exception of Carmack because he designs games to work with "tomorrow"'s graphics cards) can't even keep up with the rate at which 3D cards are improving - by the time the first games trickle onto the market that take full advantage of the GeForce, nVidia will have their next GPU out. And after that 2 to 3 years, XBox2 will come out, even faster.
"The high poly rates have a drawback though"
So just what is that drawback? You make high poly rates sound like a bad thing, but you never say why. Perhaps that's because you don't know what you are talking about.
I want the XBox to suck as much as the next guy, and I desperately want the project to fail, mainly because the moment MS gains dominance in any market, the quality of everything in that market deteriorates badly. They fsck everything up. But if they do ever release the XBox, it will be damned fast, and the technology in it won't be instantly obsolete.
If John Carmack is on the advisory board, maybe Microsoft can build something good the first time around. Perhaps they've noticed they make shit the first time so they are buying companies and renting people to build it for them...
Wasn't Michael Abrash working at Microsoft before he went to go work on Quake I with Carmack?
This is my sig.
THey picked the right guy for the job at least.
Carmack is great. Carmack maybe is the most gifted game programmer of the world. Carmack gave us Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake.
But boys and girls, Carmack is NOT a god!
Carmack on X-Box Advisory (advices can be safely ignored my Microsoft) Board (his advices can be safely ignored by the board) means NOTHING. Really NOTHING.
And, seriously, Microsoft NEEDS Carmack advices. X-Box in 2001? It'll be thrashed by PSX2.
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Carmack wants X-Windows dead. The problem? He's right. X is good for network work. For games and local desktop needs sucks big time.
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Cesar Cardoso can be found at cesar at zyakannazio dot eti dot br (or at least I believe so)
I think the key word is Unsubstantiated. This is hardly news. Rumors shouldn't get on /. Esp. the MOSR or the IDsoftware types.
Oh well.
There comes a time in every man's life when he must say, "No mother! I do not want any more Jell-O!"
Well, now that they bought Bungie, got Id to help them out, who's next to join the X-Box team? Blizzard?
Microsoft is investing an awful lot of money into XBox...but here's a better idea (and much more expensive...), if those rumored Mac boxes become true (which I have a 90+% certainty that it will not), you'll have a nice CPU, AGP graphics, DVD, HD, heck, just 'bout everything XBox has to offer, except this isn't a dedicated game console. (and again, much more expensive of course)
Well, it sounds like you have yourself in a position to influence alot of games, but what are you going to do with it?? Borodimer of Sample Query String "Would anyone mind if I shot a mime?"
Like we need Roundhead doing anything in collaboration with Microsoft. I'll go get my shovel, one of you guys hold him down. Sharkey
www.badassmofo.com
Newly Redesigned. High in fiber, low in cholestorol
It's clear that John has a bright future ahead of him in the technical management/stearing of a big company ones he's done programming :-)
...for making an effort to validate the story, and stating very clearly that it's currently unsubstantiated. That's such an improvement over the standard quality of research around here. Congrats and thanks.
(Of course, it's kind of sad when standard journalistic due diligence is such the exception that it sticks out like this....)
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I just wish that funky new mouse came in a left handed version.
They have a smaller version of the optical mouse which is dual-handed (it's normal mouse-sized, rather than the oversized Intellimouse Explorer) I like the bigger version, but then again, I'm right handed, so it's not an issue. The smaller one feels nice too though.
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I said this before, but no one listened.
Carmack was responsible for the popularity of OGL in the gaming market...now he's in team with M$.
DirectX is already winning (Linux doesn't support it yet either), Bungie got bought by M$ (kiss anymore good Mac games goodbye), and now Carmack is going to program in DirectX for the X-Box.
OpenGL will be as dead as SCO is by the end of the year. Sorry.
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faeryman
...then that's excellent.
.plan about it.
;)
I've been impressed by Id before I knew who they were (Wolfenstein), and in awe of Carmack probably somewhere between Doom and Quake. He writes some amazingly fast graphics stuff.
Also, even if the console is from Microsoft, I still trust Carmack's integrity. If anyone has a chance of getting something good for both the gaming community and the free software community, even from Microsoft, it's Carmack. And if he doesn't like the way things are going, I bet he'd resign, and post a nice, long, juicy
Anyone have any more general X-Box details? From what I've heard, it should be pretty cheap, and probably pretty hackable too, just because of the PC hardware. But then, the specs will be in flux for a while, and I'm sure they'll do their best to secure it. But that will surely go the way of Playstations and DVD Players: physical access to a self-enclosed hardware device is always enough for a determined hacker.
And if they tried a DivX sort of system, which is what it sounds like where Microsoft wants to go tomorrow, well... I for one would run like the plague. And go back to playing Metroid, and not paying by the minute.
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pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate.
I wonder if that might keep him a little too busy to play with porting X-Windows to Apple's Darwin?
Just flame me if it was another well-known programmer I heard of doing that.
Well, this is very interesting indeed.
Carmack was interested in the Linux market for their games at one point, pointing out that many industry people were going to watch the sales of Quake III for Linux very closely to see if it was a viable gaming market.
I don't know how those sales figures turned out, but if id is now going to producing games for the x-box, where does Linux fall in all of this? Given: The number one software market is games. It will be more difficult to promote Linux as a viable replacement for the desktop operating system if the xbox is taking a piece of the market share.
I am very unsure what Carmack's interest in the xbox is. I think it would be very dumb of Microsoft not to have Carmack on the board. It would be very beneficial to them to have Carmack on their side.
If this is all fact, I'm just unsure of what Carmack's interest is. Speculation will probably go wild...
Mike
"I would kill everyone in this room for a drop of sweet, tasty beer."
If it's not true then here's an opportunity!
Maybe Carmack will wring a better-than-pathetic OpenGL implementation out of MS and get it into Xbox?? Oh well, I can dream can't I!! Jono
I will seriously consider buying a XboX, _especially_ if I can get it to run linux (Now _that would be the ***BEST*** game on the XboX).
Anyhow, on topic, we are far more likely to get a decent outcome with this sort of equipment if we work with them (if they allow it)! Face the facts, we have been working with hardware manufacturers for years. The microsoft mice are well supported so should the XboX. John has moved Microsoft before on the openGL issue, lets hope he can help them bring out a great games machine.
BTW I am not all that keen on what I perceive as monolopies, be it MS with OSes or Sony with Playstations. Bring on the competition and make that competition fierce!
****** Posted with Mozilla ********
John Carmack will make the X box a great platform!!
John Carmack has officially sold out!!! OpenGL is dead!!!
Get a fucking grip. Carmack is just a developer. He's the best at what he does and he's got a lot of expertise, but he's hardly capable of making or breaking a console platform. Additionally, nobody has said anything about DirectX vs. OpenGL wrt this deal - which is just a rumor anyway.
You guys sound like JeffK -- John Carmaeke is SMARtey ProraEMIng WiZARD MaN!!!!!
--Shoeboy
- is going to eat his words - the words he spake in response to the AMP rumors several years ago: People watch TV to turn off their minds, and use computers and the internet to turn them on. There will be no internet/tv convergence.
Well, Microsoft is starting to prove them wrong - if developers are flocking to XBox like they seem to be, (bought or not).
Carmack was one of the key figures in Apple's "serious about gaming" strategy. Bungie's lost to XBox, and now Carmack? That coupled with the lack of a serious 3d card for Macs (STILL!), does not bode well for the future of gaming. Apple should have done the AMP.
if it ain't broke, then fix it 'till it is!
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Anyone know of an effort to boycott the Xbox or something similar? If it turns out that M$ does take Halo away from the Mac and PC, I am going to be 10x hotter than I already am. I would join an effort against M$ and the Xbox. Whats going on? Any ideas or wishes to create/ or join such an effort? I realize though its probably useless to resist. There just are too many herd people out there that would blindly support it.
this is fluff! wtf?
Fear the government that fears your guns. Fear the government that fears your computers. Remove them from my email.
isn't that why everyone started work on OpenML?
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Peace,
Lord Omlette
ICQ# 77863057
[o]_O
i agree. what makes sony fair competition? they are every bit as bad, or as much of a 800 pound gorilla that microsoft is.
And you have just managed to hit on one of the big differences between how Americans and Japanese think. Notice how Americans like to associate just ONE person with an idea/product?
(Linus Torvalds, Bill Gate, Bill Clinton, Larry Wall, RMS, etc...)
How many Japanese products are like that? The guy that invented the WALKMAN was just another loyal Sony employee. Can you name the individual behind any Japanese technology? I can't.
"Nobody ever built a monument to a Committee"
--Somewhere off fortune(6)..
my sig's at the bottom of the page.
Sounds to me like M$ is really pushing to make their new toy a success--first they get the Bungie guys on board, and now Carmack as an advisor. Truth to tell, I thought X-Box was just vaporware at first, designed to scare people away from the PlayStation 2. Now it seems they're really going for it, and attempting to avoid the "1.0 Blues" by getting people on board who know what the heck they're doing. Kudos to them. I'm still getting a PS2 this fall, but after that, who knows?
today there has been an article about "x is doomed" and now "carmack chooses the dark side".
big deal. i think the xbox is going to take a dump, other than the keyboard i use i know of no MS hardware that is a comm'l success.
the spec web benchmark reamed win2K, and a couple weeks ago a little 32/64 bit, full mutitasking os, complete with src code (that many of us know and love) hit some 97% of the win98 openGL performance.
so, even though JC has not had a lot of nice things to say about linux, my personal experience today was installing debian, NT4 and redhat on three dual cpu P3 500 dells, brand new, out of the box.
NT blue screened on machine 1, redhat and debian installed flawlessly. just for grins, i installed RH on machine 1 as well -- no problems whatsoever.
all three are burning in over the weekend. i'll check dell support monday for the NT install issues.
i think linux has a stong future, esp. with the big embedded/japan announcement a day or so ago. carmack has a right to his opinions on linux, and the right to "go MS".
choose your own path, and be proud of it. it ain't no big deal, except so many kids look up to carmack. from that point of view, it doesn't do a lot for the concept of open-mindedness, fairness or a free market. maybe he'll say something like those sports figures say : "i'm not a role model"...
Treatment, not tyranny. End the drug war and free our American POWs.
See my user info for links.
Geez, I don't think this really rates a news story...
I put off an interviewer with questions about the X-Box by saying that I was on the X-Box Advisory Board, and probably shouldn't discuss specifics, instead of just my usual "sorry, too busy" reply.
Here is the longer answer:
At last years CGDC, Tim Sweeny and I had a meeting with Bill Gates about the X-Box. It was not handled well.
For weeks ahead of time, I had been pressing for technical information so I could have something useful to comment on at the meeting. A couple days before the meeting, I finally got an email directing me to "look at this EETimes article, they are pretty close". Yeah. Ok.
So, we just wound up just talking about generalities.
A while later, I was contacted about being on the formal advisory board, with a promise that it wouldn't be like that "trophy meeting" at CGDC, but would be making critiques of real documents.
I am on a lot of advisory boards, and they vary quite a bit in level of participation.
3DFX's advisory board meets every quarter, and we go over detailed technical things. Unfortunately, the very first advisory board of over two years ago discussed a part that still hasn't shipped, so it is hard to say what the impact is.
Apple's gaming advisory board has met three times, and was moderately productive.
Nvidia listed me as a member of their technical advisory board in their IPO filing, but there has never been a group meeting. I meet with them a couple times a year privately, but I haven't had a whole lot to complain about or suggest to them since they got past the RIVA 128 (until the recent push for 64 bit color)-- they have been doing a great job.
All of the other companies just informally stop by everey once in a while to discuss things.
I had made some suggestions to microsoft about DirectSound and DirectInput in past years that were always at the wrong time to ever get acted upon, so I don't know what to expect from this board.
So far, microsoft seems to be sticking to the plan -- I got a big fat binder of stuff in today to look over before our meeting next week.
I'm all for the X-Box as a console platform. The graphics hardware is a lot cooler than PS2, and there are a lot of other things going for it. I am still uneasy about all the market protection issues that go with consoles, but I tend to think that microsoft is a more open company than many of the traditional console companies.
I want microsoft to make good products. Heck, I want everyone to make good products. Even at the height of the D3D vs OpenGL antagonism, I had always given them source drops of what I was working on, and freedom to use it for demonstrating new features.
I had hoped that they would use it as a real-world testbed for new features, rather than just dreaming them up and making the industry follow their plan without ever really testing things out.
In any case, talking with MS has no bearing on my development decisions. I'm still using OpenGL, and we are still planning simultanious releases for linux and MacOS-X. If things work out well with X-Box, that may be added to the list.
John Carmack
You're absolutly right! But not on one point. The resolution on your TV depends on the TV itself. My TV can handle something like 900*700 pixels (it's something like 983*712, or whatever) at 100 frames per second. If I would get an input signal of that resolution and 100fps It would look a lot better than regular TV. The max res depends on your TV, but for newer sets the determining factor is the console. Oh, and I read somewhere that the X-box will run at 800*600, which is pretty nice.
If the X-box runs at 800*600, the final resolution will have to be scaled down to fit within the 480-horizontal line limit. This is similiar to what TV-out cards for computers do..they linearly scale the high resolution output of the computer into the low resolution of TVs (which is one of the reasons the text is impossible to read).
Download a fast DirectX Tetris Clone [276 k]
tune
skkkoooonnnggggkkk ptui
Shigeru Mayamota (sp?) is the best game designer ever. Mario, Zelda, Metroid (I think), etc etc...his stuff tops lists all the time.
Sure, for 400 dollars and the high polygon rates, it seems like an absolute steal. Here's a huge dose of reality. The 400 dollar equipment will be near worthless late next year (its slated release date). The emachines of late next year probably has better perfeormance/fps than the X-Box late next year. So bang for your buck is NOT an issue, contrary to the x-box hype.
Now we go to performance. How great is the X-BOX performance? Insnanely high poly rates? The high poly rates have a drawback though. Your computer video card that you're running right now probably can get comparable polys. What? You're saying that you've tested and you cant? Well gee, i guess it's because you didn't set it to 320x240 res (the resolution of the TV) and set a max fps of 27 (also that of the TV). Well, it doesn't seem that absurd now, doesn't it?
Games? Well, any game for the X-Box can be ported to the Windows platform with minimal effort (and any for-profit company with the brian of a monkey would realize that would be a good idea).
So price, performance, and games are ruled out... what advantages does it have over a 1.5 year old PC with windows runing on it? Probably nothing.
And here's something to keep me mostly on-topic. Carmack is wasting his time on a doomed platform.
1) Michael Abrash (you know... quake bsp code!) works for MS, and works on the XBox dx implementation :) Try it. :)
2) nVidia will provide a full OpenGL ICD for the XBox. (as stated in numerous newsitems). Therefor: it's totally logical that Carmack is an advisor for the XBox, because he is advisor for several OpenGL Driver implementators. He knows what's needed to get performance on the thing.
3) So what! Just because it's a microsoft product doesn't it make bad. When it's from Sony it's cool but from MS it's bad? What do you want then... a bag of parts and elements and a manual to solder, fiddle and build the thing yourself ? (plus write the 3D api layer yourself, because all you have is a chipset layout). Sometimes stuff that just comes out of a box and works directly is pretty ok
--
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
The XBox is simply another front on the "API wars".
If XBox is successful, Microsoft has another extremely powerful tool to further wedge DirectX into the minds of developers. Instead of OpenGL.
Microsoft's goal, in this, is to get developers writing primarily for the most popular platform - theirs: DirectX on Windows9x/NT/CE/XBox. Ports to other platforms, Unices, MacOS classic/x, ps/2, dreamcast, amiga, os/2 (I included the last two to illustrate what's going to happen to all the others) will be done later, if at all, there will be no parallel development if the gaming company has to get it to market fast and cheap, which is a necessity in this competitive world. Porting a DirectX game to OpenGL later will be a financial liability if you're talking about 30% or less of the combined market. The end result, less games on the minority platforms, less sales for minority platforms, market dominance, once again - didn't we learn this lesson in the 80's?
Why is the game-console important? Because, in the future, game-consoles will pick up other functions, they will get the non-PC market onto the internet - they will be the control-valve for all media - they will morph into settop boxes.
Maybe Carmack wants to get onto the advisory board to try to strongarm Microsoft into supporting OpenGL on XBox. At least that's what I'd like to believe. I'd like to believe that Carmack is still dedicated to cross-platform development, open standards, and a world where there's choice other than MS.
Obviously, by how Bungie got bought, Microsoft has some pretty compelling material supporting why developers should consider XBox. I hope that Carmack didn't bite that fishhook too.
if it ain't broke, then fix it 'till it is!
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
A link to a site that says another site has a rumor that he is on the board? Don't get me wrong, but why cant we just have news and not links to links to links to links? Go Figure.
_joshua_
-Elendale (BUT ITS TRUE!)
Karma burn coming
As i meta-troll again
IANAT (I Am Not A Troll)
Soon Squeak Techonology will take over the graphics market. It's way ahead of its time. Check out the latest Squeak technology. This thing handles any colour depth, supports anti-aliased image rotation and is platform independent, as well as fully open source. Its graphics morphing system is also truly exciting. I think that this is the way that consoles should go, a tiny footprint, compared to Microsoft's propreitry bloatware.
"A few atoms won't even light a match" - Dr Jones, 1933
Not only is this not news (Carmack IS on the board for XBox), but it's not surprising, since he is/was part of the committee that consults on DIRECTX.
And to top it off, it means NOTHING. So he's on the board? So what. Maybe they listen to him, maybe they don't. It's an ADVISORY board, and you can ignore advice.
All of that being said, The xBox folks are a bunch of smart people. I'm sure they'll listen to Carmack when he makes smart comments and suggestions. Frankly, Carmack might try to muscle people around so that everything works the way HE wants it to. What does it matter? It's a closed platform! But if his suggestions are good for the platform, then I'm sure he could be an asset.
First, Bungie. I'm still pissed about that. The only company that I would buy a product from without question.
Now Carmack has been assimilated??
Granted, he does know games, graphics, and how to make them work. If M$ actually listens to his advice, then maybe the X-Box will give the PSX2 and Dolphin a run for it's money.
However, if Halo is X-Box only, out of sheer protest, I will refuse to buy anything to do with it (and tear myself apart, cause I've been waiting to play Halo since it was announced!)
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Cmdr. Susan Ivanova