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What Happened To Intervideo's Linux DVD Player?
A singular node from the Anonymous Coward Collective asks: "Several months ago when the storm first blew up about the cracked DVD code enabling Linux users to view DVDs on their chosen platform, Intervideo rode a wave of publicity drawing geeks worldwide to their site by announcing their upcoming 'legal' DVD player for Linux to be available in the second quarter 2000. June came and went and I contacted their sales people who informed me that it would be available at the end of July. It wasn't. I contacted their PR people and was told that it would be available at the end of August. No show. In the meantime, thousands of geeks have gone to their site to be entertained by the wonderful awards they have won for their Windows software. No mention of Linux. The press release has disappeared from their home page as well. Did this software really exist, or was it all just a pathetic publicity stunt? Does anyone out there know the answer?" I'd think quite a few uf us would like to know the answer to this one. What happened, Intervideo?
I'm betting on the Stunt.... any takers?
Yes, really, some promised software projects never materialize, they're called vaporware.
If thery were trying to forestall competition, like a certain company in Seattle, it would be called FUD.
Or maybe they decided all the geeks who wantd to watch DVD;s on the Linux boxes had DecSS, in which we would be to blame.
It doesn't matter anyhow, I'd rather watch a DVD on my TV, with a beer and a bong in my hand, usign a $129 DVD player, rather than mucking about in front of my 15 inch monitor.
That a question which only Intervideo can answer is being posted as a "Ask Slashdot"?
Ask Slashdot, if we don't know, we'll make something up.
Steven
-- I have marked myself unwilling to moderate-- I don't have other accounts to artificially inflate the karma of
I know that prior to the DeCSS case, part of the MPAA's attempt to spin everything their way was to claim that a Linux DVD player already existed, or was in the works, or something like that. Were they referring to Intervideo, another company, or was it a bald-faced lie?
So if it is a stunt, which seems likely with the vanishing press release, what can we do about this. Here we have a company trying to make $$$ off open source and Linux without giving anything back. This is going to sound vindictive, but is there anything LEGAL we can do to hurt Intervideo, teach them a little lesson maybe?
Of course, maybe they just didn't have the skills to make the player, and are too embarrassed to admit it.
I'll add my two cents in with this in-depth discussion, and go for the publicity stunt option.
_______
"With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine." -- RFC 1925
You got some feathers? I got my tar. *evil grin*
The more you know, the less you understand.
IANAL but Im pretty sure there is nothing we can do about it. They weren't advertising. They were simply announcing their intention to write a player. They changed their mind. The legal have done nothing wrong. There is no tort, no fraud, and no breach of contract.
Or ask for an interview! Get one of the high-ranking officials on the horn, and field some questions! If you call them up, and they say "A representative from Slashdot is on the phone", I doubt they'll blow you off. If they do, that adds fuel to our side of the argument. "They keep delaying the release, they pulled information from their pages, and they refused an interview." That would say a lot right there.
On the other hand, if they ACCEPT the interview, we'd get some answers as to what's going on.
I'm sorry, but posting this as an "Ask Slashdot" piece seems like a lazy way out. We'd get no answers to the question that can be held as proof - merely speculation as to what "Might have happened." (Unless an Interview Employee replies, but that's not very interactive/informative.)
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon? :P)
(If you can't figure out how to E-Mail me, Don't.
Please, consider calling such code "unlicensed" instead. The distinction is that all other DVD player software has a CSS license from DVD-CCA.
--
314-15-9265
to make Linux users look bad in court:
"LOOK, Someone is making a LEGAL player for them.. They didn't need to crack CSS!"
(this actually occured in court)
Ok, I just went to the Intervideo site and checked their press releases. The LinDVD anouncement is still there. I guess this makes me look like a bit of a prick. Still, it makes the entire article rather irrelevant. all we have here is late software.
My guess it that by 'second quarter of 2000', they meant the millenium... i.e., sometime between 2250 and 2500. (+- a year to take into account nitpicking on when the millenium actually starts)
Until then, I'm more than happy with a dual-boot machine at home, with windows for games & stuff, and linux for development.
-Space for rent
.. got to Creative's site instead and help out with the DXR2 drivers.
because I posted at +2 and someone modded it +1 Insightful. the slashdot moderation system is really simple and I suggest yo try reading the FAQ if you're confused.
I had no trouble finding the Linux DVD player software press release, here's the url:
http://www.intervideo.c om/news/28/InterVideoLinDVDFinal.htm
I've never used a DVD player on a PC (windoze or linux) as I don't have a DVD drive :-(
But how do the windoze DVD players figure out what region you are located in to allow region based locking. Or is that feature (?) absent from PC DVD players.
Also what would be the MPAA's response if someone just wrote and released a DVD player for linux (without any code) to just allow us to play DVD's on linux without really allowing us to copy (who wants to copy and share 4 GB of stuff anyway). They wouldn't be able to use the argument that it is being used to pirate movies anyway.
Yup, we've seen it. We were interested in co-developing the hardware decoding for our laptops... however, they are not interested in bringing in any outside developers.
:-)
The version we saw running on a Dell Inspiron 5000 was nearly fully functional. It was feature complete, and they had just added the ability to use the mouse cursor to control the on-screen DVD extra cool things.
We should be getting a beta version soon to test with our laptops. In the meantime, the rest of you will just have to wait.
Aparrently, it will be a software only player. However, they are investigating a plugin type API to allow third parties to write drivers for hardware decoders.
Anyway... just wanted to say that it is DEFINITELY not vapourware... though I still want an open source player to come to fruit.
Look at how many OS/2 developers are really willing to create OS/2 games?
if nothing else, should put a link to their homepage in the main story so we can /. their website. Maybe the 6 million hits to the /linux tree would show enough interest for them to get the product out sooner.
--mud
More data, damnit!
Maybe SOME day we will have a commercial product.
Signatures are supposed to be funny?
CyberLink have also announced a Linux version of their DVD player.
There is no details about when it will be released or even if it has been completed. Only a few lines where they ask for developers to contact them for more information.
- Tiersten
My wife is pregnant and due very shortly. Naturally, we're both geeks and are always looking for ways to help the Open Source community. What would happen if we were to name our child using selected parts of the DeCSS source code? Admitedly, weddings and funerals might be a problem, but other than that, I'm sure we'd manage (After all, these should both be many years off). Would the local hospital records department end up getting sued?
after i emailed a question on Intervideo's support page in the last week or so, i rec'd a reply stating to the effect that "LinDVD has been sent to OEMs for evaluation, and I can't tell you much more than that."
so at least i got a reply, but that's not helping me with playing DVDs under Linux...
anyone have a simple, step-by-step procedure with software that works under 2.2.15, 2.2.16, or 2.2.17?
When this last came up it was said that it had been released to OEMs, but nobody had found an oem to comment.
Looks like that's still the case.
hounds^H^H^H^H^H^H Script Kiddies!!!!!!!!
This opinion property of Vapor Ware Inc. All Rights Reserved for nothing.
Sig it.
I have seen other discussion sites do this so it is not original. I think slashdot needs an option to mail the replies to a posted comment to your email address. I know I'm not the only person that sometimes forgets to recheck answers to questions asked ect. This should be so simple to implement and there could be a limit of email alerts/day or whatever. Well?...
Is the MPAA a monopoly? Is DVD a form of price fixing? Does their control prevent small players from entering the market?
Is yes, then why not prove they are a monopoly, and collect money from the with class-action legal wrangling?
This is the important question. After that legal action has started I'm sure that there will be many DVD players for Linux.
Does anyone have any comments?
-- James
-- Prepared at the direction of, or to be sent to Legal Counsel, in anticipation of litigation. Attorney Client Pri
Sigma Designs (makers of the Hollywood+ DVD decoder cards) has released a driver for their NetStream 2000 card for Linux here. These drivers apparently include source code according to their FAQ. Of course, this is not a big deal because the "interesting" parts of a DVD player are implemented in hardware. Someone is also working on a DVD player application built around this driver, though it is not clear how far along that project is.
It's default if you've got the karma. If Taco didn't want it, then why is it default?
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Obviously they've seen the fate of other commercial Linux products so they've decided to make an annoucement for a product they intend to release "sometime real soon " and meanwhille get some upfront money out of banner ads.
So everybody rush and click through their pages....oh yeah and post the link to their web page more often on Slashdot.!
The best way to escape from a problem is to solve it. Alan Saporta
since when is /. the vaporware police?
/. about the situation, why not have /. ask? this is hardly the way to get a legal product to market so that you can either purchase it or bootleg it or rant about how it's not open source.
maybe they ran into unforseen problems such as:
licensing for the decryption
hardware/driver problems
financial problems causing engineers to quit
etc.
instead of ranting on
why assume that it's vaporware and merely a publicity stunt? maybe they're just having problems and their PR person was instructed to say it will be out shortly.
As long as the stuff is "liscenced" it's fair game. If I had enough I would get a liscence and let people help me make a DVD player.
Respond to s
Maybe it is not possible to satisfy the terms of the CSS licensing agreement on Linux. For example you have to use Macrovision copy-protection schemes on all TV-output, stuff like that. If you cannot prohibit this (and you certainly cant on an OpenSource system), you wont get a CSS license. I guess that is also the reason why another Linux DVD player, PowerDVD is currently only available as OEM version.
The problem with DVD player software is:
a) There is a fairly small market of people who want to watch a DVD sitting at their computer.
b) Even fewer of these people use Linux
c) Even fewer of THESE people are unwilling to dual boot.
d) Even fewer of THESE people are willing to pay for software to replace the software that runs under Windows that came with their comptuer and/or DVD drive.
e) Set top DVD players are very cheap these days.
Besides E, this is the same problem most Linux software faces. The sad truth is most Win32 software works perfectly fine for 99% of the people who use it. It's hard to justify wasting the time and money to cater to a *very* small market.
Cyberlink, the company that brought you powerdvd, is going for the linux market, too.
Cyberlink
Their efforts seem not to be as vaporous as those of Intervideo. There's not just an ugly press release, but they seem to be looking for real customers.
Here's the bad part: It seems to be for internet appliance developers only. :-(
I wonder, could one buy such a beast, rip it apart, plug the software into a regular linux pc, and still be on the legal side of those murky waters that are called The Law?
Marcus
[busy manager to operator]: slash -- dot ?
[operator]: he claims its a popular website for "geeks" pertaining particularly to linux then open source.
[busy manager]: okay; whats this about?
I mean realistically I don't think slashdot registers with most people, just those of us who seem to have forgotten how to browse the web for ourselves [damn you guys, now I can't go anywhere without it being a direct or mildly removed link from a slashdot story].
But yes, I agree, why couldn't we just ask a few quick direct questions:
- why is there no longer a mention of the press release about a legal DVD player for linux on your website?
- you seems to have delayed quite a few months, at least 2 most recently. Do you expect that there is any certainty that this product will become a reality?
-Daniel
Press Release: http://intervideo.com/news/ 28/InterVideoLinDVDFinal.htm
Sig it.
Thank you for seeing the real issue, Eric.
;-)
It still boggles my mind that writing one's own instructions for a device (DVD player) and sharing them with the world can be called "illegal" in the first place.
There was no instance of "trade secrets" being compromised, if there were and insider of one of the licensed vendors or the consortium would have been on trial instead of Eric aka Emmanuel and 2600 magazine.
There was no instance of copyright infringement, DeCSS is origonal work not a copy.
Calling DeCSS "illegal" is nonsense, just as saying that a "licensed" program is "legal".
If the MPAA can find a pirated and cracked copy of it's own software then they have a point, but until then they are just blowing crap (along with that Amish* judge that they rented).
*no offense to any Amish folk reading or hearing about this post
Visit DC2600
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
The irony is there isn't a sigmadesigns.com and InterVideo is still trying to roll out their LICENSED, LEGAL Linux-based DVD player, meanwhile anyone with the mind to can use DeCSS to do it now. One would think the MPAA would have a vested interest in speeding the production of a Linux based DVD player just to quell this argument.
Listen, Sigmund, we'll discuss it in the morning.
That might be something for you to consider first before blaming slashdot for acting like idiots.
Respond to s
When's the last time we actually had a /. interview, anyway?
--
-- I invented COBOL! What have you done lately?
Ugh. the MPAA's link to sigmadesigns is just broken, they left the .com off in there tag. Sorry. I thought I was onto something hot here.
Listen, Sigmund, we'll discuss it in the morning.
Wouldn't it be interesting if both houses creating 'legal Linux DVD players' were strong-armed by the DVD CCA to claim a Linux project for a prop of the DMCA case vs. 2600.
I used to be someone else. Now I'm someone better.
Real life is underrated.
Slashdot isn't rome and isn't totally omnipresent...yet.
Respond to s
DeCSS is a LEGAL DVD player for Linux and UNIX. Why bother with a commercial version?
DeCSS has been out for months, it works, it does not use any origonal code so it is not a copyright violation. No insider contributed to it's development so there is no trade secret issue.
The judge and MPAA can say a dog has 5 legs all they want, but the dog still has only 4, DeCSS is not a violation of any law.
If you buy into the "license" making it legal then perhaps automobile companies can start licensing maps for use with their vehicles. If someone is caught in an Explorer with an "unlicensed" instruction device (the origonal work map) then Ford can bring criminal charges against the map maker. Sound pretty? Not to me and that is EXACTLY what the MPAA was arguing in federal court.
If that is the world you want, then by all means, wait for these bozo's to finish their vaporware. However, NOBODY is going to dictate to me what instructions to send to my own property.
It is amazing that a cursor functionality is holding them up for months, sounds like BS to me.
Visit DC2600
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
Just a nit, but doesn't the statute of limitations start when you commit the act? So how can you do something after the statute of limitations expires for it? It won't start until you do it!
--Joe--
Program Intellivision!
At the cebit there was a (very) small intervideo stand where they showed a working linux dvd player. It worked without any frame drops, but with hindsight it could have been a hollywood+ or another hardware decoder board. It had no identifying features and very limited interface. This was before the press release even, and the intervideo guy said it would be out in 1-2 months. Well it clearly didn't turn out that way now did it :). I think we will never see this product, nor will we ever see the linux version of powerdvd. This was announced recently but was intended for embedded systems and not for consumers. If you read the press release carefully it wasn't even finished and they wanted their future partners to (help cyberlink) finish it. So no fully operational (without frame skipps) linuxdvd player until at least the and of the year i think.
Frank Terpstra
I know the key developer. The product is essentially done. DVD is a poorly spec'ed and implemented system, and they had to do some back flips to get early DVDs to work. But the project is real, (engineering) complete, and handed off to quality.
How about stop complaining and write your own legal dvd player and then you won't have to worry about lawsuits.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Check it out: http://intervideo.com/news/ 28/InterVideoLinDVDFinal.htm
Geez, check these things out for yourselves. (it is only 2 clicks off the front page!)
get the DVD-CCA bastards to write and license some Winblows DLL's or some linux shared libs, or some kind of other non-source format in library form for their encryption scheme, and then we could build an open source DVD player around that without "reverse engineering." Personally I'm tired of not being able to play DVD's on my PC (in FreeBSD) without rebooting to Winblows... I don't care what form the library comes in... open source or not.. I just wanna get rid of windows on my computer.
DeCSS "plays" dvds? I don't think so. Lets see I fire it up and wait about 15 minutes. Wow it dumped a 4 gig file on my drive. Thats one hell of a player.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Well, the Press Release is still there. This link was, however, the only trace of "Linux" I could find on their site... Who knows?
Too many moderators are simply thinking, "Do I think this is insightful?" and modding it up, no matter what the current score is. There is no sense of relativity. This is why there are so many 5's and relatively few 4's.
What the moderators should do is say, "I think this is insightful, and is worth about a 2. Is it at least 2?" If not, mod it up. If so, leave it alone.
bp
Read the howto, you need to make two named pipes and run two helper programs beforehand.
So just because the words "deCSS", DVD, Linux & Commercial appear together in an article, the conspiracy theorists start frothing at the mouth.
Perhaps they are just ironing the bugs out before they release it? One of the criticisms levelled commercial software is that it is all too often rushed to market without proper testing. Maybe these people aren't like that.
After all, this is the reason Linux 2.4 is still awaiting full release, even though it was promised for April. I don't hear Linus Torvalds being accused of having hidden agendas (not that I'm doing that, I just think people are being a bit unfair here.)
If my call is important, why am I talking to a recording?
Maybe it's a strategic relationship, in which "Ask Intervideo" moves to Slashdot, and "Ask Slashdot" moves to Intervideo. Think Synergy! Alliances! Coopetition for the New Millennium!
sulli
RTFJ.
I know for a fact that the PR/Marketing people (who would be the ones fielding such a call) at *my* company have never heard of Slashdot. Good lord, they still think VALinux sells Alphas--that hasn't been the case for what? 3 years?
--
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
Linux MAPI Server!
http://www.openone.com/software/MailOne/
(Exchange Migration HOWTO coming soon)
OKAY, DeCSS is not a full player, it is just a critical piece that you need to make a functional player.
Here is the full HOWTO for Linux:
http://helo.org/dvd/howto/DVD-Playing-HOWTO
and for FreeBSD:
http://www.opendvd.org/fbsddvd.php3
Thank you all for correcting my memory loss during my fit of babbling.
Visit DC2600
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
After all the stuff the MPAA has spewed out in court, would you really want to give in to them (and, indirectly, fund them) by using some 'approved' DVD players. What the MPAA has done is just plain wrong. Having to sit back and watch the bad guys win is to high a price to pay for a DVD.
Dionysus vs, Socrates! The greatest battle of all time!
What I want to know is whether it will by PCFriendly (i.e. the InterActual Player 2.0)? Or, will I still have to boot into Windows or find another DVD player to participate in their online events?
Rumour has it that their key linux hacker fled to Iceland for some R&R. Expect big things in October.
sounds like one of those fuckedcompany.com rumors...
So since lots of people have the DeCSS source code, why not start a project to create a patch to it much the same way as LAME did with the Fraunhaufer MP3 encoder?
I'm not into the type of programming required for this but the way LAME morphed from being a patch to being a full fledged independent program was pretty interesting to say the least.
Perhaps this would be a way to develop and open source DVD player for Linux - while legal battles are happening, people still code. When it all blows over you'll either still have the patch that lets you play DVDs, or (hopefully) be able to turn the patch into an independent program.
suck it down bitch.
Guys were harrassed, guys got scared and project was sent to the bin.
But there are legal DVD players for Linux now...
Maybe the process of getting threatened happened in an early stage, if it did, it never stopped.
Bizar technology?
Well, there IS an alternative that also gives onea viceral pleasure by tweaking the nose of the MPAA...download and keep using DeCSS/dvd-munitions.
They are STILL widely and easily available.
In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq as they increasingly merge the two in America.
Here we have a company trying to make $$$ off open source and Linux without giving anything back.
No, you don't. What money do you think they made from open source and Linux?
This is going to sound vindictive, but is there anything LEGAL we can do to hurt Intervideo, teach them a little lesson maybe?
That's because it is vindictive, not to mention without basis and just plain stupid. Did you ever consider that maybe they pulled the project because they don't want any business from zealots like you?
Of course, maybe they just didn't have the skills to make the player, and are too embarrassed to admit it.
Of course, I use their WinDVD 2000 player v2.2, and works great. Have fun with your little decss thingy, though.
Cheers,
to get dvd on a decent OS? Hmmm?
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain with all your metadata.
Intervideo had a tiny stand at CEBIT in Hannover this year. They had a computer running linux, with the player shown to be working.
At that time it was very flaky, and I guessed it didn't have any CSS decoding built-in - the disc they were demoing was a promo-disc of some sort that I assumed didn't have any encryption.
I tried to play with it a little, but the sales guy shooed me away, saying something like "very new software! Pre-alpha quality!".
Not that it means much, but the press release *is* still on their web site. If you go to:
http://www.intervideo.c om/news/28/InterVideoLinDVDFinal.htm
And it is accessible form the 'Press Releases' link on their front page. Please make sure of these things before posting...
-- bearclaw
Guess it's easier to write press releases then to write software.
I can even tolerate restricting otherwise free speech and allowed behavior when there is clear and present danger (yelling "Fire", stalking somebody, publishing hit lists and telling people to go murder people on the list).
But DeCSS is as harmless as it gets. There is absolutely 0 threat that a bunch of letters and numbers on somebody's hard drive is going to harm anybody in any way.
Actually it's sort of scary when you step back and think about information itself (without regard to the process by which it was obtained) being branded legal or illegal. "This is information that you are allowed to have. This is information that you are not allowed to have."
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Please, consider calling such code "unlicensed" instead. The distinction is that all other DVD player software has a CSS license from DVD-CCA.
Better yet, call it "competitive". That brings one of OUR issues - violation of antitrust law - back to people's attention.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Fight Spammers!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
or you could get a $150 dvdrom and dxr2 card. And dxr2s are almost workable in linux (and completely so if you have an ATI All-in-wonder card).
Of course we want a free version. LinDVD will likely make a lot of money by serving the same niche commercial software always does--to tide us over until the free version is ready.
Here's my DeCSS mirror, where's yours?
[PARANOIA] One of the moderators is an undercover agent for the motion picture industry! [/PARANOIA]
I noticed that too. Some people have no sense of humor. All the ones I saw which got modded down as trolls were obvious attempts at humor.
Steven
-- I have marked myself unwilling to moderate-- I don't have other accounts to artificially inflate the karma of
Anybody tried using Wine to use the DVD software that came with their drive?
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Even accounting for the fact that I run it on Win98, I've never come across a DVD title using it that functions properly. Not only does it blindly assume and require that your desktop be 640x480, it crashes/hangs/bluescreens frequently. I can never get more than 3 or 4 questions into the quiz from the Matrix, and a lot of people I know can't get the software to load at all or detect their DVD-ROM drive.
Someone should reverse-engineer that and come up with a working alternative - that would have a market.
I'd prefer to watch a DVD on my TV with surround (still stuck with prologic, but it's better than nothing), but when waiting for a delayed plane, or stuck on call late some weekend waiting for a long process to complete, it's nice to be able to fire up my laptop and watch a movie. After all, it's much more portable than my TV/stereo/DVD player at home.
What actually happened is that they started writing the DVD player for Linux - it was probably a month away from done, just a full QA cycle and some bug fixes to go. All through the process there had been considerable - considerable - interest from the Linux community. Unfortunately, it wasn't all pleasant. Just as we see the flames on slashdot whenever we have discussion about deCSS or Open Source (remember "Men of Zeal" a few weeks ago?) there were flames sent to Intervideo. Many flames. A small but concerted campaign by the kind of idiots that flame first, think later, was directed at the company.
Eventually the wrong email address became the target of the incessant whining and flames. Management said "fuck 'em". And there you have it: No DVD player for Linux. There was no money in it of course, just a desire to be the only one, generate the kind of good feeling your brand can leverage. But when no good feeling is apparent, what's the point, from a manager's point of view?
Posted anonymously - obviously - because this is the kind of information you don't provide, if there is a chance of the wrong person finding out who told the story. But I think it has to be told, because it won't be the last Linux project to be canned because of the immaturity of some "supporters".
We see the same thing, still, in your post - "Amish* judge that they rented". Just grow up!
Wasn't LiVid close to being finished when the DeCSS controversy erupted? If the css_auth or whatever module is the part which subjected the LiVid group to liability, why not finish LiVid, distribute the code sans css_auth, and leave it to the end user to obtain or write whatever module is necessary for it to compile? Going further, aren't VCDs similar to DVDs in terms of file layout? LiVid could be distributed as a generic videodisc player, which, with a non-css-capable decoder plays VCDs, but when compiled with the correct auth module also happens to play DVDs.
You mean I should delete those jpegs of my girlfriend naked and covered in green Jell-O(tm)?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The previous one APEX 600-AD can play DVD / CD / VCD & mp3 . This one has 3 disc changer in addition.
I have the single disc version and I have nothing but good things to say about this geek's toy. My friends went and bought name brands (Panasonic / Sony) for twice/thirce the price (I got mine for $150 in Circuit City ). But still some of theirs don't play VCDs and don't have the zoom / sound / play functions of APEX. But what is kinky is it can play MP3 CDs (even CD-RWs without closing the CD - I haven't tried this, but I know others who do this successfully). Here is circuit city link
Forget this vaporware crap and buy one that works and affordable. And this is your good chance to upset MPAA :=))
If you look at post #37 below, they did get a post from someone who claims to have seen the beta in action and who claims to have a contract to put the software on laptops. In some ways this is better than PR-speak from the company itself.
Of course, a call to the company would have been good journalistic practice, but if you have read Slashdot for awhile you might have noticed that these guys aren't journalists. This is more like a bulletin board than a newspaper.
What do you mean with "of which only one can be true"? Do you mean that there are three things, and it is a specific one of those three which is true? Or that, at any given moment, only one among the three can be true, but which specific one it is can vary at different moments? Or do you mean that two of them are necessarily false, while the remaining one is a contingency? (In the latter case, your statement would be true even if none of the 3 were actually true.)
Any odd number of true causes a result of TRUE.
If you define the tertiary XOR from the binary one: the XOR of 3 things as the XOR of the XOR of two of them with the third one. One could argue this definition does not correspond to the intuitive meaning of "exclusive disjunction".
Please leave logic to the logicians.
Are you adequate?
Heh, I highly doubt there are any Amish folk reading your post unless they've secretly invented some sort of all-natural way to browse the web...
Sure, they might hear about it, but I also highly doubt Brother Job and Brother Thomas discuss the latest happenings on Slashdot while they're kicking back after the barn raising.
"We obviously need a new moderation category: (-1, Woo-fucking-hoo)" --Mr. AC
If you do post at a +2 and some AC commands his lackeys to moderate you down as an abuse of the moderation system, some newbie will comply because, "That Anonymous Coward guy posts more than anybody else here. He must know the ropes better'n anybody."
--
As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.
First #include~.not Last
That'll be while the DeCSS appeal is being heard.
Then will come another period of silence, and then more vaporware at the time the Supreme Court is hearing the case.
You know, I actually expected them to deliver a real product. It's not that difficult. This fiasco can be used by the defendants in the appeal -- it reeks of bad faith and conspiracy.
Linux has an open source kernel which makes protecting CSS decryption impossible. How can you protect CSS and DVD data if anyone can hack the kernel and snoop at what the DVD player is doing. Sure, you could write a DVD player in such a way to make it difficult but there is no way to sufficiently protect CSS and the DVD data. This is why you will never see a legal DVD player for Linux unless CSS is done in hardware (as with Sigma Designs DVD player) or it is being used in a closed box system (i.e. settop box) where upgrading the kernel is impossible (or CSS is opened up).
Presumably, the "illegal" DeCSS code has a clear interface. I.e.: well- defined API. Entry points & return values. Whatever. (I haven't looked at it.)
Now let's suppose that open source writers started cranking out friendly, GUI-based DVD apps, complete except for the DeCSS code--expecting "users" to link the "GUI code" with DeCSS modules/libraries the "users" are assumed to have obtained elsewhere. Say, for example, from Usenet? (Where it's now posted all over hell and back :-).)
Would the "GUI-based app" writers be liable for anything?
I suspect not. But IANAL. Nor a judge.
*no offense to any Amish folk reading or hearing about this post ;-)
I am stunned as I sit here reading slashdot in the warm glow of my kerosene powered laptop deep in the fertile Pennsylvania farmlands cultivated by my ancestors. If you didn't mean it to be offensive, why add the 'Amish' modifier? What would have been wrong with, "along with that judge that they rented"?
No shoo-fly pie for thee.
--
As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.
Lies, damned lies, statistics, and release dates.
Anyway... just wanted to say that it is DEFINITELY not vapourware
Does it allow for fair use of DVD content?
Does it ignore region coding?
Does it allow you to skip trailers and ads
If the answer to any of these is no, this isn't the DVD player that we want.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
Its just not in English. http://www.intervideo.com.tw/.
My email is real.
I'm kinda surprised we don't already hear more about this technology .... perhaps it's vapourware as well, but it seems to me that if and when it finally gets out the door that it will quite possibly put an end to DVDs in general.
As I don't know much about the subject that's all I really have to say, but anyone who wants to take a look at this technology and possibly make a better call as to its validity, the company is Constellation 3D.
Cheers!
RFC2119
I have to agree that it sounds like nothing more than a pathetic plea for attention. The sad part is that they would be that desperate. Sounds like a company going down.
You somehow have it in your mind that a perceived danger to human lives is fundementally different from a perceived danger to profitability. In practice human lives have finite monetary value. DeCSS threatens control (in the form of licensing, region coding, etc.) over a commodity, probably more in the precident it sets than in actual usage. Loss of control reduces ability to profit. Given the power that big business has to write the laws in most industrialized countries is it surprising that not only the right to life, but also the right to profit supercede the right to free speech when they are in conflict?
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"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
If you can read the drive, you can make a copy. You don't even need to be able to read the filesystem on the disk. You can read the disk as raw data and make an image.
Commercial pressed DVD discs store CSS keys in an area that is already burned with zeroes in DVD-ROM media. You may be able to copy the files, but you won't be able to copy the key.
<O
( \
XGNOME vs. KDE: the game!
Will I retire or break 10K?
If you don't like the way that the rules are being written and enforced, get involved in politics. That's where the rules are set. Don't think that registering a vote every few years is the limit of acceptable participation. (well, actually, I'd consider it the lower limit of acceptable participation).
Nothing would scare politicians like 10K angry geeks getting involved in the upcoming election. With DECSS, Napster, Microsoft et. al. all on the cusp, I'd say it's about time.
Free Software: Like love, it grows best when given away.
But DeCSS is as harmless as it gets. There is absolutely 0 threat that a bunch of letters and numbers on somebody's hard drive is going to harm anybody in any way.
Or so a logical being would conclude. But CSS was created as method of content control... a phrase which has a far great reach than mere copyright infringement. Part of CSS is determining who can watch what movie and where. Helps keep prices high in some regions, while affordable enough to be proitable in others. Also, (and this is where the MPAA has a beef with DeCSS) in order to manufacture a DVD player or develop one, you need to purchase a license and the CSS algorithm. This allows certain electronics manufacturers to arrange a kind of consortium. If a company wants to develop and manufacture a DVD player with the consumer in mind, they simply aren't sold a license or has it revoked. I'm sure there are certain clauses in the contract that say things like "you may not make a DVD player that can play movies for other regions or output the decoded information in any other format than copy-protected analog, etc, etc"
You can see for yourself that DeCSS and the precedent that it would have set without being fought would have been quite harmful, from a corporate persepective at least.
As always, much of this is pure speculation, and I enjoy being proven wrong if truth accompanies the counterargument. Have a good day.
take another look at step 1 :-)
* And remember, it's spelled N-e-t-s-c-a-p-e, but it's pronounced "Mozilla."
This is right from their site...
"LinDVD is expected to be available late in the second quarter of 2000"
Right. Ok, Where the fuck is it? Sounds like they are 2 busy sniffing M$'s ass.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I submitted this question about a month ago.. And after asking InterVideo about it they said that they had released the product to several OEMs. when I requested a list of OEMs they said they didn't have an official list as they were waiting for the OEMs to get back to them on whether they would sell the product. The best thing I can think of is to start asking OEMs if and when they will be selling the product. If there exists a demand that the product will show.
I know we're just preaching to the converted...
But there is one thing, even beyond First Amendment rights and fair use that scares me. I'm not a legal historian or anything, but it always seemed to me that laws were about restricting *behavior*. If I sign an NDA, and then disclose some secret info, it is not the *information* that is illegal, it is the *act* of disclosing it. Or if somebody tells me a password and they weren't allowed to, it is *their* *action* that will get them in trouble. Now with the DeCSS judgement, I can imagine a trend in which the *information* itself is branded legal or illegal. This is something entirely new. As far as I know, *information* has never been given a legal state unto itself - it was always some action that was made illegal. It's scary to think that simply holding some information in your head would make you a criminal, but on worse days I can imagine that possibly happening.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Ding ding ding ding! Give the MPAA ten points for accuracy.
Sorry guys. Just download the "DVD Munitions" tarball from opendvd.org's FTP site (No URL posted, you know where to find it) and there as bright as day you'll see "DeCSS.ZIP" which contains "DeCSS.EXE", verified if you have Quick View to be a Win32 executable. You'll also find Win32 source code in the same tarball.
THIS is the code that the MPAA wants stripped off the net.
By contrast, the LiViD Tarball (from Linuxvideo.org) is a much better example of "The Linux Argument."
Use Evolution instead of Outlook? Bewa
- A.P.
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"One World, one Web, one Program" - Microsoft promotional ad
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
you can find information at Their Taiwan site, which doesn't appear to have an English version but has a link for LinDVD right on the front. =) It wasn't a stunt.
They say they are working on getting LinDVD to sell. and to get back with them in a week or 2.
This world is looking more and more like Fahrenheit 451. With the exception that self-education itself is not illegal, but being able to watch a movie for free is punishable by house-burning.