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TiVo Changing Privacy Policy?
Update 4:45 EDT: I spoke with TiVo about this. They are rolling out a DirecTV/TiVo combination box this weekend, and the new privacy policy was intended to reflect the fact that, when you register using the new combo box, both TiVo and DirecTV get your Account Information.
"We reserve the right to disclose to our hardware manufacturing partners (for example, Sony, Philips and Thomson) the Account Information and Anonymous Viewing Information of subscribers who use a Receiver made by that manufacturing partner..."
"Account Information" includes "Contact Information," which includes your name, address, phone, email, and other sundries, but not your viewing habits. "Anonymous Viewing Information" is a statistical aggregate of what you - and everyone else in your zip code - likes to watch.
The partner corporations will only get access to your "Personal Viewing Information" if you already expressly gave TiVo permission to have that information (I'm not sure why you would).
Two things to note:
First, you cannot opt-out of this information sharing with their hardware partners. If you sign up with DirecTV and TiVo simultaneously on your new combo box, then sorry, both companies get that info. The way they described it, there isn't much they can do about this.
This is despite my being told, when I called their customer support line as a customer rather than a reporter, that my opting-out of the Anonymous Viewing Information collection would also opt me out of the Contact Information. Oops. My guess is that their customer service people aren't hip on the new privacy agreement change yet. Give 'em a week.
Second, I was verbally assured that existing TiVo customers, without combo boxes, will not just have their Account Information or Anonymous Viewing Information given to the makers of their non-combo box. In other words, just because I own a TiVo box made by Philips, Philips won't get my name, address, email, etc. It would only be if I owned a (hypothetical future) combo box made by Philips.
Of course it would be nice for this assurance to be in the privacy policy itself! It really should be more specific.
They didn't promise me anything except that they'd try to be more specific in the future. I hope we'll be able to run a Slashback story in the next week or two, to let you know whether their policy has been appropriately updated. Stay tuned.
Bah. Actually reading the policy is for wonks. Real Slashdotters assume CmdrTacos summary blurbs tell them everything they need to know. CmdrTaco in turn assumes the submitter summary told him everything he needs to know. More research than that might turn up things like:
However, TiVo contractually binds our manufacturing partners to comply with the provisions of this Privacy Promise; our manufacturing partners are legally liable for misuse of Subscriber Information.
Stuff like that puts a cramp in ones fearmongering. Real Slashdotters don't do research, they're too busy posting their uninformed paranoid ramblings as fact.
Unless it's a lifetime sub (which is really the only sub that makes sense if you bought the Tivo with the expectation of using it over a year and a half). The sub is just tied to the serial #, so it'll transfer with the unit automatically. Tivo will never even know that you sold it.
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
The accessibility of personal/private info is one major caveat of this fine digital age we live in.
It is impossible (or damn near it) to stop companies from sharing personal information but if there are sharing information about what I watch and where I shop it is also possible to believe that one day my employer or worse my medical insurer makes decisions about my employment\coverag based on shopping \ viewing habits.
While it maybe be true that most techinical (I assume that is what you mean by online types) are well compensated by their employers, we do go to extreme lengths and work under absurd conditions to make a living. In addtion Most techs are worth twice there compensation package.
YOU CAN NEVER MAKE TO MUCH MONEY
Instead of paying me for my information allow me to choose what is made avavilable
I snagged this from the privacy promise.
"If you don't want even your anonymous viewing information (information that does not identify you or your household) used in any way, simply tell us by calling our toll-free telephone number (1-877-FOR-TiVo). "
So, call them and tell them you don't want your information used.
Troy
... when they show up in a click-through EULA, along with the various things they feel it necessary to bind your future behavior.
To a Lisp hacker, XML is S-expressions in drag.
There's a flag on the machine that controls whether your personal info is sent at all. If you enable that flag, it doesn't get sent. So, you can either hack the box and set it, OR you can call Tivo and opt-out of the viewing info. They send a script to your machine on the next call it makes that has been verified to set that flag.
Anyway, this policy change has nothing to with your anonymous viewing information. Next time, get the details before you start spouting off.
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- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Tivo's at least acting responsibly about this.
I took the suggestion of other poster's here and called them on the 877 number.
Their rep asked me what I did or didn't understand about the new privacy policy, and made sure to reiterate that it's anonymous information they're sharing.
And he DID let me opt out. Their rep was pleasant, informative, and quick at noting in his workstation that my information is not to be shared.
He asked me why I was concerned about it, since it was anonymous information.
I explained that it's very easy to go from a snowflake of anonymous information into an avalanche of exploitation, that it only takes someone saying, "well, last year we sold that much information, maybe it's more valuable if we sell it *this* way!" and that I'd rather not contribute to that sort of future. He agreed and noted it, saying he'd mention that to his supervisor.
Do I think that makes a difference? no, but at least they're acting responsibly.
A host is a host from coast to coast, but no one uses a host that's close
It is true that Tivo is very useful for cutting the ads out, but they're still relatively ad-friendly compared to how well it could work. You have to fast-forward through ads (and watch them to know when to stop ffing) instead of just "skipping" them, so you still experience blitverts. Also, when you stop fast forwarding, it "conveniently" rewinds a bit, so you always get to watch the tail end of the last ad. If Tivos catch on, I expect that the last 10 seconds at the end of commercial breaks will become worth more to advertisers than the rest of the commercial break.
What's worse is that the flaws will never be fixed. It's intentionally done this way; those are features, not bugs. That's why an open source Tivo alternative would be so nice.
That said, it's still a neat product and the ad-to-blitvert conversion speeds things up nicely. I can watch Battlebots in 10 or 11 minutes, thanks to my Tivo.
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As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
If you have a stand-alone box, then this change does not affect you. Later, it has been stated that this will allow OPT-IN programs, giving them and you the flexibilty to control how much of your data is shared (if any at all, you can opt out of even the agregate data that is uploaded).
For the direct tv/tivo combination, they HAVE to link this info for pay-per-view billing. Before the licence change, that was impossible, and would have limited the functionallity legally possible with this combo box.
When are the posters here at slashdot going to RESEARCH submissions before implying that someone is being screwed.
All right, I think I'm out of here. This type of topic really bugs the heck out of me, particularly when you can find - with just a little bit of searching - clarification on the TiVo policy. That, and you can opt out if you want. I'm disturbed about the misinformation that gets perpetuated here out of the name of privacy. I'm also disturbed that there's advertising for ReplayTV here with an anti-TiVo article. I can get more reliable news elsewhere. Paul
Although I personally belive this feature is so that you don't have to rewind when you miss the point to stop fastforwarding....
There is a hack that allows you to turn off this feature if you want to. Check out the FAQ on avsforum.
The solution? Be anonymous.
The gov't and businesses don't wanna play nice and prefer to rape our private infomation again and again. It's time to fight back.
Use anonymous remailers like replay.com.
Daisychain several accounts through multiple anonymous remailers. Make sure there's a Yahoo or Hotmail account at the end of the chain.
Never use the email address that your ISP provides you.
Run Linux to make security easier for you to control.
Set up ipchains to trap and reject all packets bount for banner ad sites, microsoft, real.com (Real audio), etc. use the whois server at arin.net to see who owns what IP address block.
Turn off identd.
Use DHCP. Even if you have static IP addresses for servers, add another network card to your machine, bind it to a DHCP address and route all your own personal net surfing through that card.
Create psuedo accounts when some kind of logging in is required. cypherpunks/cypherpunks often works.
Give phony postal addresses. Some check these for real addresses and validate city name against zip code and even against street name/mumber, so go read the address off og a traffic light controller box (yes, they actually have addresses assigned to them).
Need stuff delivered? Get a P.O. Box or a box at one of those box rental places (the latter is preferred if you reveice via non USPS delivery methods (UPS, FedEx, etc.). Make sure this is the address on your drivers license and the address your car is registered too.
Pay bills or buy stuff over the web with anonymously purchased $0.50 money orders from 7-11. Pay cash for the money orders.
Give out bogus phone numbers to sites that want telephone numbers. A payphone's phone number works nicely.
Have two phone lines, one for your own personal use and one that never has a phone attached to it, and no modems, fax machines, or answering machines either, and which in fact never rings audiable to you at all. Use this number with all utilities, credit cards, health insurance firms, ISPs, the Motor Vehicle Dept., Domain Name registrations, and any other place that requires your "real" phone number. It's even OK if telemarketers get the number. Endless rings with not even an answering machines wastes the maximum possible amount of their time with no return for them on time invested.
Use crypto wherever possible. You should even download the int'l kernel patches (from www.kerneli.org) and create encrypted disk partitions to store any volitile data on. And don't use just one crypto method. Create a 2nd encrypted filesystem inside the 1st encrypted filesystem. Repeat 2,3,4 times using different crypto algs and passphrases at each level. That way if your machine is stolen, no one mounts the filesystem without the password, not even the NSA.
Never give passwords over non SSL connections.
And above all, be paranoid. Just because everyone isn't out to get you doesn't that there's someone out to get you.
And always know that corporations have FORCED you to take these extreme measures and that it is necessary and right for you to do so.
power to the people.
I'm a big fan of privacy myself, but at the same time I'm also a participant in the modern economy -- I shop online, I buy almost everything with a credit card, including books, music and magazines, my medical bills and so on.
The reality of this is that I'm in nearly every database there is. When I bought my house I was surprised to get "Welcome to the neighborhood!" ads from businesses that sold stuff I didn't use and that I'd never before frequented -- turns out the county land-transfer stuff was public info and was regularly sold to businesses.
Unless you were born off the record and live in a really rural location, it strikes me that the information that Tivo is sharing is the kind of thing other marketers would find out with or without Tivos help.
Thanks for the info - I'll start digging. Junkbuster rules, BTW.
Maybe someone would want to run something like FuckedCompany.Com but concentrate on slippery privacy practices.
I'd love to see that happen. I guess that idea is now 'open source.'
+5:offtopic,but anti-American
that someone who's been around as long as you (user number 40,041) would respond so carelessly. IF you read my comment, I said sell it on the street, not back to the company. I'm sure you read the other response to your comment, indicating that TiVo's sell on ebay rather frequently...maybe you should consider this, rather than posting comments without reading what the person wrote.
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
--Fesh
"Citizens have rights. Consumers only have wallets." - gilroy
--Fesh
Kill -9 'em all, let root@localhost sort 'em out.
Maybe you shouldn't do things that you would later be ashamed of, instead of worrying about privacy so much.
DrLunch.com The site that tells you what's for lunch!
Obviously, the only carelessness on my part is posting AT ALL.
I couldn't agree with you more. Please, follow in the steps of the great ones (heh) and retire.
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
Most privacy policies say "Check back here periodically", which is not very helpful. Some of these will still e-mail you (if you've given them an address) when there's a big policy change, but if you're really concerned, you could use MindIt to tell you when the Privacy Policy page has changed.
[command INSERTWITTYQUIP failed: insufficient wit]
It says blatantly right here that If you don't want even your anonymous viewing information (information that does not identify you or your household) used in any way, simply tell us by calling our toll-free telephone number (1-877-FOR-TiVo).
That doesn't mean I like companies with lax privacy policies (I think Tivo should be boycotted), but you have to take responsibilty for maintaining your own privacy.
If you have a problem with my views, REPLY, don't moderate!
Well sir, obviously you didnt read my post about the cuecat :). Your saying exactly what I said. Bitching wont help, we need to hit them where it hurts, in the pocketbook. Stop buying these peoples products. Make it harder for them to get that armani suit and the house in the hamptons. They'll get the message
"sex on tv is bad, you might fall off..."
I lost my concept of community when my community lost all concept of me.
"Hello, TiVo customer service? I'm a slashdot reader who's decided to go off half-cocked and completely cancel my service to prevent you from spying on me and passing my viewing habits on to the FBI's Carnivore system! Free Mitnick! Boycott the RIAA! I am not a kook."
Lets say that instead of them recording anonoymously your viewing habbits you had to write down on a little slip of paper each show you watch, then give that to them anonymously. if you did that for a year and then cancled your subscription, they would STILL haev you viewing habbits even though they don't know they are yours, the still have them. Same thing now, except they have data files instead of slips of paper.
TIVO had atleast the courtesy to notify you that their policy is being changed and that you can opt out if you like. But what about sites that has Double Click invisible banners to track the users in their webpages. What about failed dot coms who are selling their customer information to others. Respect TIVO for what they did. I am sure they had valid business reasons to do so.
Rapid Nirvana
At least you have that option. That's better than I expected, really.
And just out of curiosity, I looked at ReplayTV's privacy policy, and it said the opposite:
[command INSERTWITTYQUIP failed: insufficient wit]
Oh boy, let's watch CmdrTaco rant YET AGAIN without reading the full article that he's ranting about. Of course partners like DirecTV and AOL will have access to the customer data -- they need it in order to service the account. It's not like they're broadcasting your viewing choices to anyone and everyone, they are sharing very specific account data with partners that have a valid need for it, and from whom you have purchaseed a device or service. Whatever happened to giving someone the benefit of the doubt when you don't know all the facts? This is very much like the RedHat sensationalism that was posted yesterday, and I'm sure there'll be another issue that'll get blown entirely out of proportion tomorrow. Taco asked us to give Andover the benefit of the doubt when they purchased Slashdot, but he's not willing to do the same for TiVo when they form partnerships with other corporations. Aren't double standards great?
Yet another reason to MAKE YOUR OWN system using an ATI All-in-Wonder on your PC.
Ya know, that's not a half-bad idea! I have an All-in-Wonder Pro but the software that comes with it from ATI is buggy as hell. IF someone wanted to write some code that would have Tivo-like features and didn't crash when capturing large streams (longer than 1 minute at a time) it would definately find a market.
(If anybody knows of any existing tech to do this, please let me know.)
-The Reverend (I am not a Nazi nor a Troll)
-The Reverend (I am not a Nazi nor a Troll)
=(.\')=
Getting viewing statistics is has been the holy grail of broadcasters since the beginnings of broadcasting. To NOT want to sell this information either in aggregate by specific users is not something I expect from a modern corporation. In a modern corporation individual responsibility and sense of ethics is often subjugated to the need to turn a profit. In the long run self-regulation on privacy issues will prove to be of no use.
What happens to the hundreds of dollars you shelled out to by a nice, shiny new TiVo system? It's pretty useless without the service, and there's no way you'd be able to recoup all of your losses selling it. Even worse, as someone else pointed out, what if you purchased a lifetime subscription? The worst thing that could happen to them in this case is that you suck up less of their resources or someone else gets your unit and pays them again for a subscription. You can cancel their service in protest, but it doesn't even touch their revenue stream.
Bitching wont help, we need to hit them where it hurts, in the pocketbook. Stop buying these peoples products. Make it harder for them to get that armani suit and the house in the hamptons. They'll get the message.
Maybe you need to step off your high horse for a second in order to fully understand my point. I realize it wasn't blatantly clear the first time, as I was really on my way out the door to take an engineering test. My point was NOT that everyone should stop buying it, but that if you dont like it, dont subscribe. I personally would not let this information policy stop me from doing anything involved with the TiVo, from buying one, to subscribing, to watching and recording whatever it is I choose to watch and record.
Furthermore, despite your nice healthy ego, it is entirely unlikely that this policy, regardless of the backlash in the geek community, is going to cost the owners of TiVo any money at all. Insinuating that it will is just ridiculous.
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
The changes seem fairly harmless, but I don't think it's ethical to change something like this. I don't know much about torts, but could something like this even be considered a breach of contract?
I don't think so. For an ongoing service, if they notify of changes far enough in advance for you to cancel the service, I see nothing wrong with it, particularly as most services I've dealt with (ISPs, credit cards, etc.) include a clause in their terms of service or contract that states that they can change the terms with x days of notice.
On my planet, nobody is so omniscient as to know the future ramifications of any action, or what acceptable activities today may be vilified under tomorrows regimes or mores.
Maybe you should find something more constructive to do than troll /., jerkass.
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
Really? Did you buy the lifetime subscription under a false name and address? (Is that even possible? Or do you have to pay with a credit card?)
Tivo is neither "good guy" nor "bad guy" - Tivo is a company, an entity that exists solely and amorally to make money.
I'm not cynical, but I always read the fine print and am capable of critical thought. Tivo (and ReplayTV, for that matter) long ago made it clear that their business models had nothing to do with selling boxes. This became even clearer when they started licensing their technology to other manufacturers. Given that the boxes are sold at a loss (or breakeven at best), and that the type and granularity of data the boxes are capable of collecting is far more valuable in real dollars than the monthly fee they're collecting indicates to me that they've got another revenue stream in the works -selling viewing habits.
I do my best to warn people of the risks here. When a Supreme Court appointment's video rental habits were publicized, congress passed a law expxlicitly protecting the privacy of such records. (This is why you have to *opt in* to such programs as "Blockbuster Rewards" to trade your data for "free" gifts.) Back when Ms. Lewinsky's book buying habits were subpoenaed by Mr. Starr, I had been warning people about buying with credit or debit cards (which make such data collection possible). Not everyone is going to be investigated on a national scale, but one never knows when one's data trail may be important. Perhaps to an insurance company (surfed any medical sites that use DoubleClick or Akamai?), perhaps to an ex-spouse in a divorce proceeding or custody battle (surfed any *ahem* other sites? Watching late nite Cinemax on your Tivo? Watching lots of TV, period? Maybe it was your fault/you're not a good parent), perhaps to a future employer, etc. Even people who aren't planning on running for office should be aware at how their personal preferences are collected and mined and can be used against them.
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
Really though, will they give me back my money for the TIVO then?
Rader
The data is being shared out of necessity. Can anyone actually concieve of being able to get DirecTV service _without_ DirecTV having your contact information?
The policy is simple, if you get a "combo box" that gets service from both TiVo and one of their partners (such as the "DirecTV with TiVo service" box), then your name and contact info will be avaiable to both companies.
None of the "sharing" is marketable simply because the data is still protected by the privacy policy. It's a condition of the sharing.
If you don't want DirecTV to have your contact info, then don't get the "DirecTV with TiVo service" box. Or, get it but don't use it.
The whole thing is silly, but it seems that anything regarding privacy will immediatly be interpreted as bad.
The "Opt-out" will protect you from having your anonomous data collected. It won't let you get DirecTV service out of the "DirecTiVo" without DirecTV knowing who you are.
Actually, the technology is interesting. This TIVO box will probably record the programs digitally - without any analog steps in between, just like the DishPlayer. If you've ever compared
digital satellite tv to analog reception, there's quite a difference in quality. (except watching characters during fast motion or lightning - mpeg breaks down there)
I agree, this is the way to go. A simple/cheap Serial-to-PIC-to-IR dongle, an ATI video card, as much hard disk as you want to pay for, and a hardware MPEG encoding card. This should be possible primarily with off the shelf hardware and software.
Too bad it hasn't expanded your ability to type, or avoid making offensive statements.
Now, I don't have cable, or dish, or even an antenna hooked up. I watch VHS and DVD, and play video games. But I don't think less of people just because they watch television - Unless it's Voyager, Seinfeld, or Friends.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
That you have to pay more for privacy is certainly the case in the UK.
If you purchase Digital TV in the UK your usage is monitored via telephone (satellite TV).
The Installation fee is £100 if you allow monitoring via telephone, £400 if you refuse to be monitored. I was the first person who had asked them on this!
Slashdot Beta should die a painful death.
Hey cool, it's the Website of the Future!.
Both the .net and .org are also placeholder sites.
Check those URLs, people.
Oh, and on the other hand, Panasonic has a ReplayTV/TiVo style box (isn't it a clone of one of them?) called the Showstopper.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
This is the sorta thing me and a buddy were talking about last night.
We determined that there are two types of conspiracy theorists. Those who like reading about them, and believing only bits and pieces as being the truth, and those who go around wearing tinfoil lined clothing.
Those who believe this is an evil plot by TiVo to take over the world are completely in the second category.
All data collected by the Tivo is encrypted at the source and then sent to Tivo's servers. They do not know what channels a particular person is watching. Only that a person is watching a particular channel.
The very fact that TiVo has a Privacy Officer is a boon for me. How many other PVRs have one? They are committed to keeping individual information private. Before the change in the policy they couldn't even share subscription numbers information to the producers of the equipment.
Runestar
Corporate Napster, I love it! "A little sharing of private user info never hurt anybody. Besides, you online types make too much money. You expect us to pay you for your info? Information wants to be free!"
e x p e c t d e l a y . c o m
Cancel your subscription and sell your TIVO.
...but as I recall, Federal Regs allow you to opt of out their sharing of your information with other companies for the purpose of marketing. Now, this opt out can, and should, be extended to include TiVo's partners; this is, if you say TiVo can't sell your info, then neither can their partners.
Of course, that's the idealist in me speaking again...
NecroPuppy
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Godot called. He said he'd be late.
I like you, Stuart. You're not like everyone else, here, at Slashdot.
Summary of TiVo's Privacy Promise to You
TiVo knows how important personal privacy is to you, so we have established strict policies to help protect the privacy of your personal information. In summary, we promise that:
No one outside your home, not even the TiVo staff or any of TiVo's computer systems, will ever have access to any of your personal viewing information without your prior consent. Your preferences are personal. The TiVo Service has no way of knowing what shows you have rated with "Thumbs Up" or "Thumbs Down." If you don't want even your anonymous viewing information (information that does not identify you or your household) used in any way, simply tell us by calling our toll-free telephone number (1-877-FOR-TiVo).
This is in fact repeated a few more times in the promise, that "If you do not wish this information disclosed, call our toll-free number." So yes, you can opt out.
Dragon Magic
Human nature is the same everywhere; the modes only are different. -- Earl of Chesterfield
John
John
That's like telling a junkie to "Stop using that Heroin stuff."
I LOVE YOU
great comedy company.
I don't necessarily like having my personal information floating everwhere, but if you read their privacy policy, it doesn't seem to be such a bad thing.
That's why they have a toll-free phone number: 1-877-FOR-TIVO (1-877-367-8486)
-- Anne Marie
This is the one thing I really hate when you sign up for any service. In the future if at all possible don't give them any information that you don't expect to be shared with the world. I know this isnt possible with some services, but for many it's the only smart thing you can do.
Subject: An Important Message on Privacy from Tivo
From: Matthew Zinn, TiVo's Chief Privacy Officer
Thu 10/5
Dear Tivo Subscriber:
Since our founding, we've been dedicated to protecting your privacy. We created the industry's first privacy policy, which was predicated on the simple concept that you, the TV viewer, should be in control over your personal television viewing information.
As we've grown, we've come to the point where we need to update our privacy policy to make sure that the spirit of our founding privacy pledge extends globally to cover our business practices in international markets, as well as our growing roster of business partners.
The purpose of this communication is to notify you that we've updated our Privacy Policy. The most critical components of our policy remain in effect -- no one outside of your home will ever have access to your personal TV viewing information without your prior consent.
The changes focus on how we work with our partners. In cases where TiVo and one or more of our partner companies together service your account, we want to ensure that your privacy is protected. For example, if you are a customer of one of our hardware manufacturing partners (such as Philips or Sony), or one of our service partners (such as DIRECTV or AOL), we may share your account information with that partner and want to ensure that the same strict guidelines we set for ourselves are maintained. We believe the new TiVo Privacy Policy accomplishes this.
You can read the updated TiVo Privacy Policy by visiting www.tivo.com/care/ or if you don't have Internet access, you can call us toll-free at (877) 367-8486 and we will mail you a copy.
TiVo recognizes that your trust in our Service is paramount to our success. As such, we're very proud of our stance on this critical issue and we're dedicated to delivering on it.
Matthew Zinn
Chief Privacy Officer
--
begin 644
I wish they would share THEIR data, not my data.
If they put a Ethernet card in that thing so I can get the videos from the HD, I would buy one tomorrow.
I was being sarcastic.
e x p e c t d e l a y . c o m
DOH!
Look, your TV viewing habits are valuable, way more valuable than $10/month. Tivo is only out to protect your privacy inasmuch as early-adopters are sensitive to such things - as soon as they can get away with it, their privacy policy *will change* to allow them to sell these data. This is the first step in this direction.
The best part - even if you cancel the service when their privacy policy changes, they still have your old viewing data, which is still saleable and will still be sold, regardless of your protestations.
Don't believe the hype - it all comes back to pimping your eyeballs. And they have the cojones to charge you for the privilege, how sweet of them!
-Isaac
I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. For Entertainment Purposes Only.
Start here: http://www.avsforum.com/ubbtivo/Forum1/HTML/001666 .html
This is a comment directly from a TiVo employee giving the user community a heads-up. The privacy notice certainly wasn't "snuck in"
Idiot Box
C'mon people, you don't *need* TV.
Ok the Tvio is hacked, we can emulate their service easily if someone would just put their mind to it. Or how about making a tvio clone? an open-source tvio type device.
Gawd, let's either defeat it or just sit there making pouty faces during our temper tantrums screaming " I dont wanna share!"
I for one dont own a tvio, and wont get one... I prefer to expand my mind instead of have television suck my brains out.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
If you're miffed, try using ShowStopper : a free PTV system for your computer. And it works well, even in its beta state.
What did you eat today? http://www.atetoday.com/
If I decide I don't want to pay for gasoline anymore, will the oil companies give back the $24,000 that I paid for my vehicle since it will no longer be useful without fuel? No? Neither will TiVo, considering they didn't make any money on the hardware sale in the first place.
But seriously, the market for used TiVo's on eBay is quite healthy, I'm sure you'd have no problem getting at least 66% of your investment back.
Why pay for an ethernet card when you can just import it into your PC via Svideo or video cables? Yes, it can be done and it's simple.
------
Let me give you the lowdown
I'm not sure I agree with this - somebody can steal some money from you, and then you know you're out that amount of money.
Once somebody starts distributing your private information though, that information can be spread through goddess-knows-how-many databases, mailing lists & whatnot, all w/o your knowledge or possibility of intervention. At least the money that was stolen from you is limited by its purchasing power - your private information can be copied & corrupted mercilessly.
(I guess this is the other edge of the two-edged sword of near zero-cost information-distribution - the same technology which enables MP3s & movies to be passed around as digital data allows organizations to collect & distribute our personal information just as easily.)
I think this would be a good idea but don't know if there's anyone with the resources to undertake the task. If you could make a business out of it, like maybe Enonymous' Privacy Ratings site, then that might work. I'd monitor it if there was such a site. Maybe someone would want to run something like FuckedCompany.Com but concentrate on slippery privacy practices.
I've found that PrivacyDigest and WebVeil do a pretty good job of keeping abreast of the news. Privacy Digest is better because it is more comprehensive, but WebVeil is selective, seeming to focus on privacy for consumers specifically rather than everything that is privacy under the sun. Otherwise, I just pay attention to and filter what the paranoids are saying in alt.privacy or check on the privacy issues section of Yahoo and Wired.
"I do not avoid women, Mandrake. But I do deny them my essence"
CEDIA is the show for custom audio-video installers. At least one of the Tivo units will have not one but two DirecTV tuners, so you can watch and record at the same time. And the recording quality is miles ahead of standard Tivo and ReplayTV units, as it records the already compressed MPEG stream as it comes from the satellite. Obviously, the quality of the encoder at the DirecTV head end is far better than the cheap chip in the consumer unit - not to mention that this avoids the awful necessity of decoding and re-encoding an MPEG stream.
But I have to confess that the best picture quality I saw was not from Sony's or Philips's TIVO units, but from the RCA DirecTV box with software from Microsoft. No, I have no idea why MS is wanting to get into this market either, other than to try to get WebTV into more homes.
"How perfectly Goddamn delightful it all is, to be sure" Charles Crumb
Why on earth would you think they would stop selling your contact/marketting/demographic information after you discontinue their service?
You may be through with the past. But the past isn't through with you.
Speak truth to power.
[scene: arm chair, TV flickering, TiVo hard drive whirring]
Narration: While I zip through the TiVo recording of my favorite porno movie "Debbie Does Dallas", I can finally relax after a hard days nite [soft Beatle corresponding background tune].
[scene: TiVo Monitoring Centre]
Marketing Guru: Hot damn, another sex-paying viewer. Our partners will pay us thru the nose for this data.
Assistant: Uh-ho, ummmph, he's underaged.
Marketing Guru: Oh sh*t! Shut it down, shut it down!
[scene: beeping Carnivore Alert Panel, FBI H.A.R.D. Center, Ft. Worth]
Agent 1: Underage viewing of porno at 412 Black Gold Avenue.
Agent 2: SWAT dispatched
[scene: outside TiVo HQ]
SWAT: [megaphone] Come out with your hands up in the air.
In other news Warez Hut changed their Piracy Policy.
BrianSig free since 1993.
Look at that update.. It's nice to be right. :-)
Seeing that Hughes (which owns DirectTV) has been going after pirates very hard, this could be a very easy way to help track them. For those who do not know, DirectTV uses a smart card and a phone line for their system. The phone line sends orders in for PPV and features. Well, the pirates have decided to modify the smart cards and not connect the phone. Now let's see. Hmmm. If I had a pirated dish with a TIVO on it, and I d/l'd the TIVO service and it tracked my watching habits. Hey....It just caught me watching something that I wasn't supposed to be able to watch... Who does not think that these two companies will not share that kind of information. My 2cents worth.
amen brother. the only way we can show these people is to make it just a tad bit harder for them to go out and buy that cottage in the hamptons or that lexus for the wife.... money talks....bullshit walks...
"sex on tv is bad, you might fall off..."
I lost my concept of community when my community lost all concept of me.
Or, you'd have noticed this at the top of that agreement: Privacy (Updated September, 2000). That's the old agreement. The rant is about their new one, as of October.
-- Anne Marie
If they can share your account information with their partners, and their partners don't have a privacy policy, then they can indirectly share your information with anyone they want.
This brings up several important points:
Are your viewing habbits considered part of your account information?
If you are concerned about privacy, then you should get a TiVo-branded unit, not a partner-branded unit, though this means you may miss out on some added benefits of hybrid hardware (i.e., built-in DSS tuner or AOL Web-TVish Internet access).
Having said that, what we need is a law that forces companies to honor privacy agreements even through mergers, bankruptcies, and changes in corporate philosophy.
-----------------------------------------
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Computeri non cogitant, ergo non sunt
Is Tivo going to let you opt-out? If not, maybe they'll let you keep your privacy for a price. Although it looks like right now, the Tivo policy is "Anonymous Only". I'm still glad I've got the Dish Network box instead. I don't have to leave it plugged into my phone line, or plug it in at all. That's the only way I can be sure that it's really one way. I'd rather just have my personal recording bundled with my satellite service then have my TV tastes auctioned off.
Photos of bits of the past hiding in the present: afiler.com
Is there a website out there that tracks these types of things - like TiVo and Amazon changing their privacy policies, sneaky EULAs, spyware, 'phoning home,' web bugs, etc.? There's just so much of that crap to wade through any more (which is what they're relying on), it would be nice if there was a central reference point. I know it doesn't mean I can trust anyone who doesn't 'make the list,' but it would be a nice starting point, anyway. The Slashdot privacy topic helps, but isn't as easy to reference specific questions.
+5:offtopic,but anti-American
Well, it's a month old, yes, but it's also the only privacy promise on their site. If there's an admendment, I doubt they're going to remove an entire customer service allowance just to please a few partners. Most people don't even call the numbers to opt out, only those really concerned with their privacy and information and know it's possible to opt out.
When they update the new one, it'll probably still have the toll-free information. Well, hopefully more than probably.
Dragon Magic
Human nature is the same everywhere; the modes only are different. -- Earl of Chesterfield
It is time to patch the Tivo software so that it can send out the same useless information each time they connect.
Sort of like those cookies I send that say "Don't set cookies on my hard drive. I don't want 'em!"
Mainly, this:
4.3 Contractors and Third Party Service Providers. We use contractors to help with some of our operations. Some of these contractors will have access to our databases of Subscriber Information on a temporary basis for specific tasks. TiVo also uses third parties to help with certain aspects of its operations, which may require disclosure of your Subscriber Information to them. For example, TiVo may use a third party to communicate with you (via telephone, email, or letter) about your account or upcoming features or services, to mail rebate checks, to process and collect payment for your TiVo Service via your credit card, to generate demographic profiles based on Subscriber Information of current TiVo subscribers, and to perform other work that we may need to outsource. TiVo contractually binds these contractors and third parties to use your Subscriber Information only as necessary to perform the services they are asked to perform; such contractors and third parties are legally liable for misuse of Subscriber Information.
This is in order to let DirecTV directly bill the DirecTivo users for the Tivo service. With the old privacy policy, they couldn't do that.
That's it, fellas. Your viewing info (that everyone worries about) is still completely anonymous, and only used in an aggregate form.
---
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
4.2 Manufacturing Partners. We reserve the right to disclose to our hardware manufacturing partners (for example, Sony, Philips and Thomson) the Account Information and Anonymous Viewing Information of subscribers who use a Receiver made by that manufacturing partner, as well as Personal Viewing Information (but only if you have expressly consented to our collection and disclosure of Personal Viewing Information) we collect from the Receivers manufactured by that manufacturing partner. However, TiVo contractually binds our manufacturing partners to comply with the provisions of this Privacy Promise; our manufacturing partners are legally liable for misuse of Subscriber Information.
'Nuff said.
---
- Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.
Tivo Changing Piracy policy ?
Someone tell me what law is going to stop a company from "accidently" turning over a database of user preferences to another company? What law is going to stop some data thief from getting into the company's database and turning it over to some other company for a cool $100K?
Let's see, we've the Security & Exchange Commission to regulate and stop invstor trading but it still happens! A toothless agency like the Federal Trade Commission---without even so much as a law to stand on and probably a 1/10th of the budget of the SEC---won't and can't do a thing about the insider trading of private information about consumers.
Within the next 10 years, every consumer will have their profile circulating through the computers of every major consumer-oriented company in America. And if you think it can't happen because you have a "contract," you need a hard lesson in dirty-rotten capitalism.
---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.
Im getting rid of my Tivo box.
(Playing the devils advocate here)
Why should I care that the government will have access to that sort of information for myself and about 400 million other law-abiding citizens? I'm not breaking the law so I don't have anything to HIDE.
All of your questions are answered.
If you don't want even your anonymous viewing information (information that does not identify you or your household) used in any way, simply tell us by calling our toll-free telephone number (1-877-FOR-TiVo).
This annoys me almost as much as those tiny checkboxes that say "Check here if you don't want to be informed of further updates from (Insert Company Name Here)." Fer Chrissakes, why does the default behaviour always have to be so invasive?
It may look like I'm doing nothing, but I'm actively waiting for my problems to go away.
--Scott Adams
Really, you should read the policy before saying anything about it. Personally identifiable viewing information is _not_ part of your account information.
The partners are bound by TiVo's privacy policy for information they receive from TiVo.
And ther are no, to my knowledge, TiVo units that are not partner-branded, given that all "regular" units are manufactured by Sony or Phillips. It is my impression from reading the policy that Sony and Phillips count as partners under the privacy policy.
Of course, if you sell your TiVo, whoever buys it will have to get their own subscription. It's the subscription revenue they care about. If you really want to show them how important your privacy is, blow the thing up and post a video of it on the web.
Was mich nicht umbringt macht mich hungrig.
When will we wake up? br. When will you wake up? Welcome to america. You have TWO choices. If you really believe there's anything YOU can do to stop this kind of information sharing, you're on crack. First off, I'm not entirely sure where the problem is with their practice. They're sharing your information with their business partners, true, now where's the problem? Why do you care if someone you DONT know knows how many porn movies you saved to your TiVo drive last week? Realistically, DirecTV probably has this information anyway. So where's the problem? Secondly, if this is a HUGE problem for you, cancel your service. Nobody's forcing you to pay for it, nobody's demanding that you subscribe. Take your little box and sell it, I'm sure you'll find a buyer relatively quickly. If you really dont want people knowing what you watch, when you watch it, what type of shows you save, or any random permutation of these factors, DONT USE THEIR SERVICE. Its not a hard concept to understand, and its certainly easy to implement.
Mooniacs for iOS and Android