Slashdot Mirror
India Enlists Teen "Hackers" as Cyber Cops
Popocatepetl writes "Apparently, you can get a job if you tell Indian government officials you can "hack" a government web site. This story is short on details, but may be interesting nonetheless, especially since the FBI is mentioned."
So what? Am I the only the one who finds this a "non-news" item? I hardly think so...
but can they first post ?
only instead of working for the government, they just pay for your room, board and food for a few years.
That wouldn't be a bad summer job...Beats a paper route.
From the article:
"Hacker is a term used to describe those who illegally break into computer systems to steal or copy information. "
Need a tissue faggot?
"They told me within 5 min. they could hack the govt. web page" ==from the article. Just because they say they can do it, does not mean they can.
How Jaded Are You?
...is that the job includes wearing an orange jumper and picking up trash along side of thousands of miles of railroad tracks...
Hammer of Truth
(woops, wrong kind of hacker.. P.S - learn to be l337haxor over at http://johncglass.com/leethaxors.htm
/. is a commercial entity. goto slashdot.com
I wonder how much they would pay you for that. -Psyiode
-Psyiode
...but the lack of details and general 'feel' of the article kinda makes me feel like this is an elaborate 'sting'. Have kiddies write/call in saying "I know how to crack a government site!". Bingo, instant crackdown on would-be crackerz.
I'd say stay away from this one...at least in the US, admitting to goverment officials that you're knowledgeable (and capable) of "compromising the security of federal property" isn't the best idea.
--Just Another Pimp A$$ Perl Hacker
El riesgo vive siempre!
Oh yeah? Well, I can break into the NSA's computers in under 4 minutes...
So, where's my new job?
Jason
"They are brilliant. They told me that within five minutes they can hack the (Indian) defense ministry Web site...," he said.
Hummmm let's think about this one. How brilliant can someone be who would easily and openly admit to such a thing?
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do { Work(); PayTaxes(); Eat(); Sleep(); } while (alive)
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while (alive) { Work(); PayTaxes(); Eat(); Sleep(); }
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I could be WAY off here, but it seems to me that governments have been hiring young hackers for quite some time... Has the US not one this? We don't here much about the Gov's security teams, but it seems to me that these kind of people are the logical choice.
Can anyone confirm any previous examples of this? Or am I an idiot?
um.. I done, you can stop reading...
I am become Troll, destroyer of threads
"We want to use them positively so that they can create adequate firewalls so that nobody can hack our country's Web sites," he added.
/."
Okay somebody answer me this: using hackers to catch/thwart hackers sounds good, but is it really feasible? What's to say that little Wali, age 14, who built your firewall, won't share those techniques with, oh, say some kid in Minnesota who happens to post regularly to places like Slashdot, and so now your custom defense can be cracked by k1dd13s? Do they sign a NDA or something?
"I'm not a bitch, I just play one on
The House Between - Original Sci-Fi Series
...someone who claims to have broken into your site, and expect them to not try to continue breaking into your sites after they start working for you? Short answer: you wouldn't.
However, you may want to pay these people to hack other sites. Sites of companies in your country. Sites of forien countries. And I'm sure you could get them busy enough hacking on other targets for fun and profit so you didn't have to worry about the hacking at home.
I'm not sure advertising it would be smart, however.
I demand a million helicopters and a DOLLAR!
I think the operative words here are "they told me".
I mean, the idea of co-opting the opposition talent sounds great on paper, but come on. (a) If you're going around cracking military websites, you're not going to go out of your way to attract attention to anything but your IRC pseudonym, and (2), a military website is still a website, and therefore vulnerable to script kiddies. It's not like these brats are grabbing the launch codes or anything.
YAWN.
OK,
- B
--
http://www.bradheintz.com/
- updated
This should be stopped. Just because I'm 30 doesn't mean that I can't "Hack a Government Web Site". This is yet another example of how us "oldsters" get pre-judged as being technically inferior to the younger set.
:-)
If I do see them, does that mean I should clean my monitor?
Does anyone else remember what they were like at 14? It was all about the c0dez and the warez. I know that I wasn't mature enough to have enough moral standing to be trusted with such a position. What are these people thinking? I Wouldn't be surprised if the next headline we see is "India is off-line." Nothing aginst the youngster, but 14?!? Come on!
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do { Work(); PayTaxes(); Eat(); Sleep(); } while (alive)
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while (alive) { Work(); PayTaxes(); Eat(); Sleep(); }
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Yep, that's the key! If you have (a) firewall(s), you are perfectly safe! Log reviews, administrator policies, good computing practices - those are all optional. The firewall - that's all you need.
They shouldn't need a 14-year-old to tell them that it's that kind of thinking that gets IT managers fired.
OTOH, if they subscribe to "an eye for an eye" in India (I honestly can't remember if that's Hindu as well as some Muslim sects' belief), what happens to you if you hack a web server? Do you have to wear the company's T-Shirt for a week? ;-)
wait a minute.... this is how companies have been hiring for years... find a security tech that one a "white Hat" hacker... this isnt news (its interesting yes, but news... no)
Hash Bang Slash Bin Slash Bash
I sincerely doubt a government is dumb enough to hire a hacker to put up a firewall which he would be extremely interested in taking down.
Given a reasonably level playing field, who would win a fight between a bear and a shark?
Since when did that become a crime? And who in the world would equate looking at pornography with breaking into a computer system or spreading malicious virri? I am glad Mehta cleared that up for me...
"They are brilliant. They told me that within five minutes they can hack the (Indian) defense ministry Web site...," he said.
"We want to use them positively so that they can create adequate firewalls so that nobody can hack our country's Web sites," he added.
hm... they tell someone that they can break into a government computer in five minutes. I don't know anything about breaking into computers but the security must be pretty awefull if they can be compromised by anyone in that amount of time. Don't tell me they use 'welcome' as their admin password...
that is a really informative article. India is hiring 15-19 year olds who say they can break into a computer in five minutes to install firewalls and configure servers? The only reason I could see to hire some 16-19 year old 'hackers' is to get cheap and semi-knowledgable labor.
Maybe they should starting hiring the microsoft 'temps' that are in charge of securing their servers.
I am confused... could someone explain why this article is important enough to be posted on slashdot?
-theman2
This is annoying. Just because I could be a script kiddie that knows how to deface a web page, that means nothing that I am able to create firewalls. For my ability to work with security issues and to configure firewalls within our corporate network(which our web pages tend to be only semi-inside of) I have had training and a lot of experience. Mostly the experience and looking. Yes it is possible for some punk to run a port scan and find a backdoor but that is more than likely because I screwed up or I am having to leave a small door open for one of our customers to communicate with us. We have had attempts I am sure but I have never seen a true breach of our network. I know that if my company fired me to hire some kid with no experience and only the ability to run a script and root some poorly configured server somewhere I would laugh all the way to my next job as I watched their network crumble. I'm basing this rant on this quote: "We want to use them positively so that they can create adequate firewalls so that nobody can hack our country's Web sites," If they plan only to have them as a panel to educate the law enforcement and say hey look its mostly harmless but we need to educate people to ensure proper safeguards are in place so that no one can do serious damage then cool. If that is the case then this is good. If they plan to have these guys designing firewalls then hehehehehehehe. I know that I will not be getting one.
I am 31337 or something.
d33R 1nD14nz:
1 c4N h4x0r 4nD cR4x0r 4 r33l. n0w G1v3 m3 4 j0b!
v4xg33k
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a funny comment: 1 karma
an insightful comment: 1 karma
a good old-fashioned flame: priceless
this sig limit is too small to put anything good h
What the article failed to mention was that like the band Menudo the members will be forced to retire when they reach puberty.
--
J, Pixel God
3y3 4m iN73r3$73d i/\/ 4 j0b 1n jO0r c0mP4ny
mY r3f3r3n©3s:
aw screw it, this'll get stopped by the lameness filter anyway
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Username taken, please choose another one.
"Hacking, spreading viruses are much bigger criminal offenses in cyber terrorism than pornography," Mehta said.
So in India, pornography is an offense in cyber terrorism? Thank god I don't live there! Damn!
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
I love the smell of Karma in the morning
...If someone in India fixed the northern Indian power grid!!!
Sanity.html - Error 404 not found
Just shadow your Unix password list, move the location of your logs, get a better firewall software and apply the latest security updates to your OS, and see what the logs turn up.
For more info please visit Hacker's Haven 7843
Cracking and defacing web sites may be exciting and a thrill to youngsters, but how many of them are really to have the patience to do a serious security audit? That is (should be) lot of paper work, and boring checklists.
In Murphy We Turst
A play based on this:
Government: "If you can hack us, well hire you!"
JoeSchmoeHacker: "Cool! I can hack you!"
Government operatives storm in, destroying windows, doors, walls, etcetera, and smash the computer, beat and handcuff the guy, and haul his ass away
Government Operative: This is gettin' just too easy! Pretty soon, we'll get everyone who can take us down!
"Titanic was 3hr and 17min long. They could have lost 3hr and 17min from that."
IBM had PL/1, with syntax worse than JOSS,
And everywhere the language went, it was a total loss...
Yet again the press messes up with the use of the term hacker. If they are going to use a term i wish they would take the time to look up the meaning of things and use teh right bloody term. How many times are we going to let them get away with it.
Now i think they have the right idea about using hackers(using their terminology) but using kids to do a job like that isn't the best of ideas. If a 14 year old told you that he just hacked a government site would you believe him? I wouldn't. And also they said that teh kids don't have any crimal records, that means that they either have never done anything illegal before or haven't been caught.
Forever live the fighters!
"Hacker is a term used to describe those who illegally break into computer systems to steal or copy information. Sometimes, they alter the content on a Web site and write offensive material". my reaction to the above text: 1. hysterical laughter starts 2. milk is coming out of my nose 3. i fall off my chair 4. i roll around on the ground for 15 minutes 5. i read the entire article again and goto step 1 fucking retards...
"if a person with multiple personalities threatens to commit suicide, is it considered a hostage situation?" -someone
Oh Great....
Does this mean that if I go to www.whitehouse.gov, I will be greeted with a front page of:
Are U From India?
ASL pls.
"They are brilliant. They told me that within five minutes they can hack the (Indian) defense ministry Web site...," he said.
Crack a server in five minutes. This doesn't sound like brilliance. It sounds like some script kiddies attacking servers deployed with default security settings.
Seriously folks, outside of Hollywood movies, cracking takes a lot of time and effort, except when it's packaged up and distributed to the script kiddies. Learning to use the scripts does take a minimal amount of intelligence, but the main investment is time to hang in the right usenet forum or chat room to search the scripts out. Grokking of networking dynamics or basic algorithms are not required to use the scripts. Once the script parameters have been memorized, using it is trivial; however, the change anything that breaks the script and the kiddies are SOL.
For instance, I have a nephew who considers himself 3733t due to his ability to crack copy protection on CD games using scripts he's found on the net. The dunderhead can't even count in binary and is totally baffled when presented with hex. I ask you, where is the brilliance? He doesn't create or understand anything. He just blindly copies what someone else has told him to do.
Even people that understand aspects of networking and the vulnerabilities of various OS' are not necessarily smart. Knowledge does not equal intelligence, though there is a strong correlation. I'm not saying these kids are dumb. I'm saying that 'brilliant' should be reserved for someone who can analyze a system and design an effective attack. The sort of analysis that take hours, days or weeks. The term does not apply to someone who can run a script, which is what the kids are relying on if they can be so cavalier in their claims.
Noting that, the Indian authorities still appear to be smarter than their American counterparts. Even if these kids are dumb as bricks, they have knowledge that is beneficial for law enforcement. Recruiting their help is very wise.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Any fears of impending US / India conflicts can be alleviated by sending the US's most prominent butcher of the English language, JeffK to serve on the aforementioned committee. Last I heard, the NSA was trying to get ahold of him and could not be reached for comment. Experts warned that Jeff's strange style of communication could have adverse effects on India at large.
hiring a bunch of script kiddies means nothing, sure they can break in with latest exploits they downloaded, but they know nothing about securing. the saddest thing, was they mentioned that the kids will "write" firewall. muhaha.
in all fairness, let's assume that these kids can break into computers and also secure them. they are still kids! they will abuse it, they will share with friends outside of work, perhaps for acceptance/favor. it would be much better, if the kids were hired and put under a talented software house so their skills can be developed if any into programming.
------ Curiosity killed the cat. {satisfaction brought it back | it didn't die ignorant | lack of it is killing mankind
Personally, I would have hired "The A-team" if you could get Mr T. "the toughest man alive" why would you even turn an ear to a pre-pubesant script kiddie.
login:root
password:*******
We're sorry but our webserver is now protected by an army of 3l33t sc1pt kidd135. Your IP has been logged.
Thank you come again!
!DOH
EOF
You're bragging because you have "sucker" written on your forehead instead of "loser"? Whatever makes you happy, I guess.
what are you getting at?
you mean i have to read the *whole* article before i post?
how come tacoboy doesn't have to read the articles before he posts the link?
what a drag!
"...can you imagine a BEOWULF CLUSTER of these? That'd be some serious power!"
this is probably the best example of both media and governmental ignorance and stupidity...and its all in one nifty little package. first of all the term "hacker" can't really be defined, but it sure as hell isn't someone who illegally breaks into computer systems to steal or copy information. or content on a Web site and write offensive material. Does their age really matter? age doesn't tell you shit about someones ability to use (or break into) a computer. Also, wouldn't someone who is stupid enough to "hack" for a government just cause that goverment more problems than it solves. why is it not terrorism if the government does it?
Everything said and done, it is most uninteresting news.
Like someone correctly pointed out, If they were smart, they would not admit to being able to crack the servers...
Leaving aside personal and racist remarks, people must have better things to discuss, wouldn't you agree?
"You need to be an impeccable warrior in every walk of life, only then will you be able to stop the world..."
--
wtf?when i got a "modern" computer, bout a year and a half ago, was just getting into linux n stuff, it seemed that to be a "hacker" was a GOOD thing, you know, someone who just likes to fuck w/ hardcore computer stuff, thesting the limits and so forth. NOW within this past year or so the perspective of "hackers" has returned to a near 80's/early 90's hysteria. am i wrong? it seems to me that this hysteria is generated mainly by large commercial figures (the ones w/ the money)
expecting the technology to be more secure than it will EVER be. if you don't want it hacked, don't hook it up 2 the net. 8P
anyway, in the article, is says that they consider virii and hack related crimes worse than pornography. riiiiight. i think catching the bastards who post childporn snd snuff should be top priority, and not expecting the technology to be more secure than it will EVER be. there will always be those testing the limits.
i hope.
}:kill.process:{
Well, aside from the possible 'sting' function here, the only thing I can think of is cheap labor to test the firewalls. Use the kiddies to test systems; pay 'em money to let them run wild and try to crack the system, just like the RIAA set up the contest for SDMI. I doubt they're hiring these kids to actually set these things up...
bahh.....
According to this story the F.B.I. recently arrested some script kiddies under suspicion, not evidence, but suspicion, that they were going to create denials of service attacks. These script kiddiots in turn turned over some other Israeli script kiddiots in an effort perhaps to save their own ass.
So ponder this question a bit and toss it into a conspiracy theory if you want; The F.B.I. who can track down the persons responsible for bombing the U.S.S. Cole can't keep track of script kiddies?
I think the bigger picture should be clear that certain agencies know damn well who these kids are and allow them do wreck havoc until damages of hundreds perhaps millions of dollars occur and then they use them as script kiddiot snitches in hopes of catching more morons to make themselves look good.
If you take a few minutes to view the cases at Cybercrime you can notice that most arrests occur monthly and the damage done on these crimes are at a very high price with the perps often getting little to no time as is seen in Coolio's case in which he's getting sentenced for misdemeanors while commiting felonies at an adult age. There is a lot more going on behind the scenes than most people realize or maybe care to know.
As for minors securing a network I don't see how exactly the intend on allowing this to fully materialize when half of these rootards don't even understand the meanings of IS-IS, IPSec, ISAKMP, CA, let alone fully understand upper crust protocols.
Theres a lot more thats happening thats not being mentioned here.
removing the dot in dot.com
360 degrees of Karma
just because you're an ignorant and underqualified person doesn't mean you should get a job insted of an indian person.
Website defacement isn't the same as real cracking anyway. Why recruit script kiddies when there are people out there who can legitimately break into government computers. Or maybe they tried, and only the kiddies were stupid enough to tell the government "hey, I'm a hacker!"
Bite the hand.
Everyone.. please note that it is NOT the Indian Government doing the hiring here. It is actually a private organization called NASSCOM (National Association of Software and Services Companies) that is doing the "hiring".
Check out either this article or this one to find out that its not "India" doing the recruitment but an independant association
There are a lot of teenagers who are stupid, lame, and think they are smarter than adults. I know becuase I used to be one of them. Now I am 20 and I have come to realize there is a great deal I don't know. If they didn't do their homework, they probably hired some of these 1337 h4x0rs.
so, to wrap this up, I never indicated that I have judged a single person by his/her age. Next time, if you want to make someone believe you have a brain, look carefully at what is said before doing a knee-jerk reply claiming a person's ignorance. Who is the fool now? God help India if they hired 'hackers' like you =p
-theman2
oh, and God help India if they hired me, becuase I probably know even less about computer security.
Here come the Indian Cyber Cops beware or they will cry MOMMY!!! MOMMY!!!
People who want to start with me can mail me at cilkol@bom2.vsnl.net.in Didar Hossain
PS: I'm seriously considering the idea of collecting all information regarding the term "hacker" and posting them to Mr. Mehta. Any help in this regard will be highly appreciated.
*Educating Dewang* BTW (Mr. Mehta's website is at www.dewangmehta.com) ~
Do you know the story of the donkey who always said "No"?
Just to fix a misconception:
It's not the Indian Government.
This group has been formed by NASSCOM which is an Indian association which claims to represent the Indian IT industry.
Amongst those of us who really do any work here, NASSCOM is well known as a publicity machine for
Mr Dewang Mehta.
This is obviously a publicity stunt and 14-year-old Wali will be out of a job the moment the headlines generated by this story evaporate.
"Rowe's Rule: The odds are five to six that the light at the end of the tunnel is the headlight of an oncoming train."
No one takes Dewang Mehta seriously out here. His organisation NASSCOM doesn't even know how to run a Web site. See what I mean: http://www.nasscom.org http://nasscom.org
Kiran Jonnalagadda
-- Kiran Jonnalagadda http://www.pobox.com/~jace
Sometimes, they alter the content on a Web site and write offensive material.
If I take a picture of my ass and deface the Department of Urban Development with it do I get the job????
[Press Here To Hack]
( ) AOL Screenname
( ) Government Web Site
It pains me that such things happen in my country, but I'm definitely not surprised.
This is precisely what would happen if people with absolutely no knowledge of computers come into such positions of power. But unfortunate bureaucracy and what not has made this happen.
At a point of time, this guy Dewang Mehta used be the host on computer TV shows in our nat'l television channel.
He is akin to people who think that they are technology freaks cool after reading wired, or in this case, after using MS products. In one show of his, he advocated the use of Windows as the best and most trustworthy OS available. Wow!
And the sad part is that all the good minds are scared to do anything. A lot of people I know are afraid to publish articles pertaining to sites with weak security for fear of getting caught. You may wonder why.....
It so happens that we have formulated "anti-hacking laws" to catch the so called hackers, and these guys are on the lookout for anybody even vaguely fitting the profile. You see, they have not even made a single arrest as of date, and so they're waiting for some poor curious soul to get trapped so that they can immediately brand him a damn hacker who tried to jeopardise the nation's security (or something to that effect).
And in the end, the ppl end up hiring script kiddiez for security? Wow! My country is really going to dogs.
"...Fear the people who fear your computer"
I worked for a company called Network Publishing. NetPub was purchased by Intelligroup. Intelligroup spun NetPub and other bits of the company off into a full service web publishing company, or something, called SeraNova.
;)
The guy running SeraNova, and in fact many of the top people, were from India. Raj Kineru. Spelling is incorrect, but I'll be honest: I hate the guy. Hate him.
Raj had some odd prejudice against folks from USA... or maybe whites, or maybe just anyone who isn't from India. He would hire people with basic certifications to do jobs they didn't have experience to do. A lot. But because they were from India, they must be just as good as Americans. Right?
One of his problems is that he wanted people to work cheap. Ok, I can see that. Except, the people from India that actually knew how to do the stuff (Java, Javascript, PERL, C++, etc, depending on the app), would have wanted just as much money to do it as us greedy Americans. So he hired these people that had a cert in just one thing, and knew nothing else, and had NO experience in what they were supposed to be doing, and they were useless in any kind of cross-technological application.
Anyway, my point is, it seems like the folks from India that I've dealt with have a real hangup on knowing one technology, and anything outside their specialty is not their responsibility, and in fact not something they want to get involved in at all.
Meanwhile, most of the folks that I've known in this industry have jumped from specialty to specialty, looking for something they like, or something new, or just because there wasn't anyone else to do it, and so even the guys in marketing tend to have some experience with different programming and systems technology, enough that when you tell them they are insane, their idea can't be done, and explain basically why, they can understand. That doesn't stop them from trying to sell it to customers, but at least they know they are lying
If my limited experience were to hold true, then maybe this guy doesn't know any better... he doesn't know anything about Sytem administration, firewalls, tcp ports, anything. And so if they say they can do it, perhaps he believes them. And, if HE says they can do it, to his boss, then his boss will know that it is true.
It is truly strange to me, how people in another country can think in what are, to me, such totally alien ways.
Meh.
Failure is not an option.
Failure is not an option.
It comes bundled with Windows.
Isn't hiring a 14-years-old child labor?
:)
Everbody who is against child labor, please boycott cracking NASSCOM sites. We don't want to encourage this behaviour.
__
__
Men with no respect for life must never be allowed to control the ultimate instruments of death.
GW Bu
Well seems like they would save a ton of money on defense costs, they just pay these kids in huge amounts of porn. =)