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Ask Sam Lantinga About SDL On PS2 And More
Sam Lantinga is the author and project lead of the Simple DirectMedia Layer (SDL), which was recently ported amid general acclaim to the Sony PS2. People have been curious about SDL for a long time (it's been around for a while, and used in quite a few games). He's not just a library programmer though; he also designs games (in this case, working with Lauren MacDonell) and thinks hard and lucidly about the intricacies of information display within them. Here's your chance to ask Sam directly what's on your mind about SDL, game design and more. Note -- many questions are answered within the links already given, so hit those first. One question per post, please (but as many posts as you'd like) -- we'll forward the highest-rated questions on to Sam, and post his answers soon after.
Writing and distributing a game for a computer is fairly easy. But I don't see how the same process could be applied to the PS2.
How would games developed for the PS2 with SDL actually get to people? I doubt we're going to see a lot of free, open-source games on DVD at Best Buy. But (for instance) I can play a whole slew of SDL-based games on Linux, Windows, and BeOS with just a quick download.
It seems to me like this might be a problem for the PS2.
yea! what a kick ass idea.
I am developing an open-source game and would
love for it to be included in something like
this. (could be really cheap too).
metric
I've trying/using SDL for quite some time and I'm wondering if DOS support is planned... I like the way that Allegro is supported on so manny platforms, but I feel SDL is better when used on linux.
This guys is a GAME DEVELOPER and is working on *SDL*. Where does it say to ask about GPL legalities and kernel distributions...???
SHeeeeesh....... Welcome to Slashdot - we only have one drum and we beat it loudly.
Why was this ever modded up to +5? It's not even flamebait - it's just totally off topic. Why don't we ask him about his opinion on stem cell research too....
You failed to differ. 3(b) provides that you do not have to distribute the source with the binaries. Brain fart?
rewrite your whole graphics pipeline?? hehehehe..... that's not all. DirectSound, DirectInput, etc, on the Xbox are NOT the same as on the PC.
A PC developer will adapt quickly to Xbox programming. But porting is NOT a straight recompile.
I'm not sure if SDL already does this, but is SDL planning on doing something along the lines of Direct Input in order to get things like force feedback joysticks, and rarely used controllers (i.e., Steering wheels, PC Light Guns) to be easily put into a game?
-Kenix "Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
Why, does everyone here want to spend their money on PS2s?
When you buy a PS2, you give money to Sony, who is both a member of the MPAA and the RIAA.
MPAA:
Sony Pictures Entertainment
RIAA:
Sony Broadway
Sony Class./Sony Music Soundtrax
Sony Classical
Sony Direct
Sony Discos
Sony Masterworks
Sony Music Special Products
Sony Music US (Latin)
Sony Portrait
Sony Wonder
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
Cool - Myth2 in ASCII :-)
The heat from below can burn your eyes out
Try 'O'. Yes, unfortunate initials.
why does sony suck...they didnt even help create the compact disc...liars
My question is a bit tainted by my personal opinion in this matter, but I'm sure Sam will be able to provide a different (and surely interesting) point of view.
At the risk of being a tad Linux centric, does the availability or unavailability of hardware specifications and technical documentation on graphics hardware affect a Linux game developer and why? With two concrete cases in mind, on one hand NVIDIA who provides binary drivers and "high level" documentation about their cards, and on the other hand, ATI for which there's source code for the drivers with support for half of the features the hardware offers, but neither openly accesible hardware documentation nor much "high level" docs, how do you think this can affect the future development of games for Linux (proprietary or otherwise)?
Thanks
I disagree with what you say. cross-platform code is extremely useful and powerful in todays world of multiple competing operating systems. 6 months of solid initial design can save you a great deal of time down the road. You sound like a hacker - "just get it up and running" often creates the worst, IMPOSSIBLE TO UPGRADE code out there. Good design is extremely important in developing solid, long term solutions.
-- "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."
I don't know why that was moderated down. It's actually true...
I'm currently preparing to port my game GLtron to the SEGA dreamcast, and believe me, dealing with windowing, input, i/o and audio is the hardest
part. Without libraries, it requires in-debt knowledge of the system you're porting to.
Compared to that, keeping your graphics stuff somewhat API independent is fairly easy. In my (simple) case, it's just setting up some blending modes & texture states, and then send the vertices to the card.
- Andreas
Without Loki's business, I don't know that we would have SDL.
This may be more of a question for everyone else than for Sam (but Sam can feel free to answer also :)
I'm not a big gamer, but I would play some if it weren't such a bitch to get the proper libraries working under Linux. Last time I tried was about 6 months ago... After following some really complicated directions and compiling umpteen obscure drivers I finally got SDL and hardware-accelerated OpenGL working. I had to disable it and revert to my previous versions, though, because it locked up my system a lot during games and made X pretty unstable.
Anyway, my question is this: is multimedia support for Linux getting any easier to install? Is it possible that someday I will be able to install a distribution and have it automagically configure hardware 3D support, install SDL, etc.? Or is Linux multimedia still too much in the toddler stages?
I'm just a lowly PHP coder. I don't understand all this low-level mumbo jumbo. I just want to fire up a game every now and then and blow shit up. Is there hope for me?
the gpl is referred to as "viral" because anything that is derived from a gpl'd product must be gpl'd. it spreads. like a virus. hence the term "viral".
Every once in a while I like to masturbate a new word into my vocabulary, even if I don't know what it means.
Do you think its going to become more popular? Or is it doomed to fail by the wayside and dies off?
StarTux
psxndc?
The emacs religion: to be saved, control excess.
is when is sdl gonna work on dreamcast
-1 troll
Sam, do you get the joke about calling you sasami on OPN irc yet?
o/~ pretty mutation - magical recall! o/~
Agian, good luck at your new job!
-- Mongoose
Now that you work at Blizzard, can you comment on whether Blizzard has an interest in releasing games for Linux along with the PC and MAC?
I'd first like to thank you for the port of Maelstrom, which has to be one of the most addictive games ever. (One of my friends called it legalized crack.) But how hard is it to port a classic game like Maestrom to SDL? Was it more work that it would of been to start over? Or because of its size and complexity was it relatively easy?
We all know SDL provides a great API for games programming. Are there any plans to create an ABI so that the same game binaries can run unchanged on different platforms (but on the same architecture)?
Sony charges stiff fees for Playstation (2) development licenses. Was one of the primary focuses of SDL a way to circumvent these fees, broaden the PS2 platform, broaden the SDL platform, or broaden Linux as a viable game platform?
There are, of course, some very good commercial 3D API's that will abstract over this problem. One of the strengths of SDL has been that you have abstracted over the low level and have avoided getting into the sticky business of fighting OpenGL and Direct3D for the 3D API. This also limits the utility of SDL, however, because of the lack of a solid, free API for abstracting the 3D API.
Do you see SDL moving higher up the graphics pipeline in the future, or is it your intent to continue to avoid higher level 3D calls?
-magic
All of you are wondering this, so mod me up! :)
Is ((Blizzard+Sam+SDL)==(Diablo2.linux))?
This is clearly not DirectX, and it will never receive the recognition in the gaming industry that DirectX has simply because it's been adopted by the fringe. Do you honestly believe that most Playstation owners will honestly care?
He's already married.
just a thought about these types of libraries in general...
Seems to me that a lot of gamers have complained on and off about the lack of original games and general stagnation of the game industry. In my opinion, that was alleviated a bit with the introduction of 3d engines that were produced specifically to make life easier for game developers. No longer did you need to have a large staff of programmers to write your game engine (2d or 3d) from the ground up. Take a portion of your game dev budget and plunk it down for a proven graphics engine. Get some artists, perhaps some 3d modelers and have at it.
I think the proliferation and evolution of game development libraries like this will lead to making better games. The more of the budget that can be dedicated to fine-tuning the gameplay and design, the better. On the other hand, though, I fear that making games really easy and quick to create will lead to even more cheap, crappy quickie games with no substance.
My sigs always suck.
Yes, but note that *those* people can then freely distribute *both* binaries & source.
With so many clamouring for this, dont you think there would have been *one* person to have made it widely available by now..?
Additionally, your middle name wouldn't happen to start with a "D", would it? (Sam D. Lantinga)
Was your depature good? Daniel Vogel also left. Is Loki in a good position or did you leave because of some problem. What's the deal?
This is my signature. There are many signatures like it but this one is mine..
To what extent do the games compiled with SDL for PS2 are slower than the analogous native versions? If a programmer uses a special programming style, does that improve the performance?
Also, does the overhead of SDL grow since there are so many platforms/tricks to be supported (i.e. if a feature of PC hardware leads to a certain architectural solution, the same feature does not necessarily exist or is relevant to the PS2 architecture).
With SDL for PS2, are there any plans to do the same for the other next-gen platforms, the Gamecube and the Xbox?
Erik
"You," Bite me.
"Each and every one of you." Bite me.
I did note that. Read the last sentence.
Fsck cluebie moderators. I'll say what I want, offtopic or not. And fsck having to qualify every bloody statement just
To clarify an important point:
You only have to make the source available to the person you send the binaries. There is no (ridiculous) requirement that you must open the source to everyone.
However, you can't forbid that person from redistributing the source afterwards which generally makes the point moot.
Fsck cluebie moderators. I'll say what I want, offtopic or not. And fsck having to qualify every bloody statement just
CodeWarrior is the ONLY serious dev environment for PS2 work.
Nothing touches CW for console dev on ANY platform.
Yep, it's that good.
Even if I could somehow get a Japanese PS2 I can't aquire the source code
Unless you have your IM buddy in Japan email it to you.
Hi Sam,
correct me if I'm wrong but to develop games for the PS/2, you need the Sony "TOOL" DTL-T10000 and the Metrowerks development environment, this runs about $20,000.
In your communications with Sony has anything been expressed about opening up the PS/2 to home developers? The Linux thing is neat but most hackers would like to develop a game for the PS/2 and then burn it to DVD for distribution to friends, customers etc.
I'm reasoning that the first console to have an affordable dev environment is going to clean up in market share. It would be a shame to see the Xbox 'innovate' in this manner.
That's mostly hardware.
1024x768 at, say, 32bpp is 3.1MB. About 50MB per second if you get 16fps. This really doesn't sound like alot, until you consider that you're blitting to the buffer as well -and- you sit around waiting on the bus to 'flip' the buffer; and the bus is an awful lot slower than direct memory access.
You can get around this by using a hardware buffer and hardware surfaces, but you're stuck with using just images and usually color key that way; no primitives for the time being, and alpha blend isn't always supported in hardware.
As far as full screen page flipping goes, you need to use a hardware surface. You won't always get one; check the flags on the surface that is returned. May also need SDL_DOUBLEBUF, it's been awhile since I messed with that.
- aoiushi, #sdl
Well, they shelled out massive amounts of money for a PS2 with no launch games worth the price, and I know several people who have bought the Jap PS2 in ADDITION to the American PS2. What's 200 more?
I happen to know someone who has the source code to the PS2 graphics framebuffer driver. It's floating around in someone's SDL code tree somewhere... Go find it if you want it. BTW: according to the GPL (iirc), Sony only has to give source code to those people who also receive binaries. Since source code for all GPL programs used is included with the PS2 Linux kit, they are in compliance. Also, according to the GPL, someone who owns a PS2 Linux kit could distribute this kernel to others, who don't own a PS2 Linux kit, and those others could figure out a way to put it onto a bootable PS2 CD/DVD. Also, with the Linux kit comes a network card for broadband capability, so free games could be downloaded by all those who own the Linux kit.
Obviously, a GL is going to speed development [although there are cases when this doesn't apply - if you start out wanting to push the envelope, you can waste a lot of time trying to do it with a GL, only to abandon the GL later].
It's an interesting tradeoff. On the PC, GLs are very popular - and are getting higher and higher level. But PCs are very, very fast compared to PS2. I can see a bunch of PS2 SDL games having roughly PS1 performance [looking better at 640x480 but still roughly looking like a PS1 game].
For immersive gaming, polygon counts really do matter [well, not the numbers per se but the quality of the images, which are related to polygon counts]. Look at something like Jak & Daxter or GT on PS2 - there is a *huge* amount of detail in there - and even though PCs blow away PS2s in terms of processing power, PC games have not come close to looking this good.
I'm not sure if "easy to write" games are worthwhile. We're at a stage now where someone could easily write a totally generic 2D shoot-em-up engine - and that would certainly be fun! But the games thus created are not going to fly as commercial products. Of course, if you don't care about being commerical, and the aim is to hack a game up quickly, then GLs are awesome. But even then, *I* would be disappointed if I couldn't do something on PS2 equivalent to what commercial entities are doing.
What are you working on at Blizzard? Do you get paid for continuing your work on SDL, or do you have to do that in your spare time?
Sig (appended to the end of comments I post, 54 chars)
You only have to make the source available to the person you send the binaries.
And if Sony is releasing a DVD containing a Linux kernel and GNU operating environment, it is releasing binaries to everybody who buys the Linux kit, must release source code for all GPL covered software on that DVD, and must make it available for the cost of duplication + S&H to all persons who have received Sony's binaries (GNU GPL, section 3b). In fact, Sony included the source tarballs on the Linux DVD.
This, however, doesn't stop Sony from putting every single driver into proprietary kernel modules, which are treated as "mere aggregation"[?] under the GPL.
Will I retire or break 10K?
From playing with it, and noticing what has been conveniently removed from the documentation (but is still in the libraries), it looks like DirectX 8 is trying very hard to do away with driectdraw and work purely through the 3d engine. Sprites are just 2d textured polys, etc...
This leads me to believe that any future enhancements/optimizations/support/testing/etc... that will happen with directx will be only on the direct3d part, and directdraw is probably going to be unsupported. Do y'all have any plans to deal with that?
---
Play Six Pack Man. I
The source only has to be available to them. They don't actually have to give them the source.
Just because a bunch of people believe or do something stupid, doesn't make it any less stupid.
So buy a console.
Actually, selling a console for underneath the cost has been the long standing rumored tradition (PSX, N64, DC, PS2, and next GG and X-Box). It hasn't been a recent development as far as I know. Furthermore, down the road at some point or another the cost for the hardware does go down to underneath the initial sell price, so usually the console maker cuts the price (i.e. PSX) and they make money on the hardware. Also, Sony only sells game licenses unless they made the game (e.g. Gran Turismo 3), so they do make a bit, but I would estimate that they only make around $20-$25 of that $49.99 that you pay for games. It is still a lot, but most casual gamers that I know buy roughly 5 titles for any system due to the recent strong divisions in the consoles (N64 vs. PSX; DC vs. PS2; anticipating GC vs. X-Box with the former). It really isn't that insane of a profit yet, and it shows in that Sony is losing money. One other factor in the recent console generation is that X-Box and PS2 have a harder time of making money because many people that have not bought DVD players are now investigating into just getting a game console to play them. They figure that it is easier to just buy one hardware unit to perform multiple functions. MS and Sony will lose money over this and it could possibly have been the reason why so many PS2s were sold but so few blockbuster games have gone alongside them.
Are you the least bit concerned that Microsoft might claim that 'DirectMedia' infringes on it's trademark of 'DirectX', 'DirectSound', etc?
Things you think are in the Constitution, but are not.
Replacing X with a much better designed and modern interface has been a long time dream of mine and this sounds like a way to do it.
I suspect SDL may lack features for allowing more than one program to cooperate on the screen (ie it lacks overlapping windows). But these should be possible to add with a few calls that should be designed to resemble the rest of SDL as much as possible.
Still it doesn't say you must, distributing the source with the binaries is one option, not the only one.
Marcelo Vanzin
Personally, I don't care all that much about numbers of polygons. If it's that much easier to write a game, I think it's worthwhile.
Exactly. If all the guts of graphics end are taken care of you can spend more time concentrating on gameplay. Although, polygons and flashy cheese (ie. lens flare) seems to sell games these days.
"I strongly urge both the faint of heart and the faint of butt to leave the room at this time."
- Strong Bad
But they have to give the people they gave the binaries the source under the GPL, so anyone receiving it could release it to the public. NDAs are not valid there.
This message is provided under the terms outlined at http://www.bero.org/terms.html
It was a cause of concern when I read that you left Loki Software. Even though I understand that you personally hold the Copyright for SDL, the nature of Loki seems to imply that it's presence encouraged you to continue development. With that part of your life behind you, would you like (or have you made) a public statement about the future of SDL?
The real question is: why is it so hard to spell?
Sam LaNtinga.
Sheesh.
m.
"Sebastian you're in a mess. They called you King of all the Hipsters, is it true or are you still the Queen?" -- B
Have you ever actually used SDL?
I play SDL-based games regularly, and to me it looks like a direct parallel to DirectX.
I can play every game on my system, using only a single shared library for graphics and sound I/O.
These games were all developed using a single shared library for graphics and sound I/O.
Tell me how this adds 50-75% overhead?
From what I understand, the PS2 Linux distro uses a proprietary, binary-only driver/library/program to allow programmers to access the PS2's graphics chip. My question is, how will this hinder end users' ability to get their hands on SDL-based PS2 games?
Does this mean they'll have to buy a copy of the $200 Linux development kit? Or are developers allowed to freely redistribute the graphics runtimes? (Or have you found some other way around this, perhaps by accessing the PS2 hardware without the binary runtime?)
I'm just afraid that most PS2 gamers (read: non-geeks) won't find SDL games too attractive if they have to buy a $200 Linux kit to play them.
From http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1006-200-5756218.html, linked in the slashdot story:
The programming blueprints, or source code, for the kernel--the heart of Linux--is included on the DVD, Sony said. But the source code for a proprietary "runtime environment" that lets games play on the system is not.
I know its slashdot, but I can't believe being a blind, mad, and paranoid GPL zealot will still score you +5.
great link!
This is primarily a PC (as opposed to console) question:
I have tried writing a game for SDL under both Linux (redhat 6.2, XFree 4.0.1, Geforce DDR), and under windows 2000 (geforce DDR, and also tried with an ATI all in wonder pro). In all cases, i could not get a page flipping full screen mode to work, and i could not blit the screen full and "flip" to achieve anything faster than 16fps at 1024x768. This is a dual pIII 800 i've been trying this on.
My question is: Is it hardware or software?
---
Play Six Pack Man. I
According to a number of articles I've read, the kernel sources are on the Linux DVD. Remember, they only have to give the source to the people who they gave the binaries, not everyone.
Are there any plans for supporting sub-windows in the manner of GLUT? What would be your suggestion as an implementation strategy for someone who wants to use this functionality with currently available SDL?
It's more like $15 or less. When square released FF7, I believe it was even less.
Having ported a bunch of Windows games, and worked on SDL, what would you say the weakest technical link in writing games for Linux et al, is? With SDL we have a common 2D interface, with OpenGL, common 3D, OpenAL for 3D audio. What's left?
you need hardware acceleration, which you wont get with a framebuffer. you need x drivers at the low end, or windows drivers..
Actually, I've heard that they lose money on every sale. The games sold more than make up for it. I know for a fact the XBox is the same: it'll sell for about 70% of the price it cost to make (published in Wired and other places). Price wars seemed to have forced this odd situation. Since Sony makes money from every game sold, and they know roughly the average number of games a console user will buy, they can max profit by undercutting competition in prices, selling more games (which have a HUGE profit margin), and make a bundle.
And related to this, my plan is to by a few XBoxes after someone hacks a linux distro for it. I won't buy any games, it looks good just as a high-end graphics linux box (and far cheaper than a comparable PC). And to top it off, I'll basically be taking money from Microsoft.
Maybe I'm oversimplifying, so if I'm wrong, please speak up!
Developers: We can use your help.
HA! Nice Troll.
The ideal game has great graphics and great gameplay - you surely don't disagree?
You wouldn't use someone else's gameplay library, so why would you use someone else's graphics library?
You failed to differ.
Yep. I noticed that after the fact. I'm surprised (or maybe not so surprised) that no one else bothered to actually post the relevant part of the GPL.
Brain fart?
Yep.
I like to play children's songs in minor keys.
"We're all sons of bitches now." --J. Robert Oppenheimer
I've used SDL for almost 2 years now, and it completely blows away everything we have had to trudge through to get graphics going on a linux platform (Hell, it blows away what is available for DOS/windows... I haven't had this much fun programming cince my atari!)
SDL will become a de-facto standard soon, it's fast, coupled with OpenGL it's powerful, and it's a dream to program with.. Svgalib was nice back in the 1980's but this is a real graphics lib.
Hell, you can make a side-scroller game in PERL with it.... and there's a few embeded GUI's based on it now.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Apparently not... they just filed for Chapter 11. :(
:)
Not quite related to the context of your question, but... that's the answer. I think.
IANAL, and I also don't work for Loki.
First of all, I'd like to say that I love Myth 2. Without SDL, I don't know that Loki would have business. Anyway, on to the question.
The Linux desktop as a whole has gained ground-breaking increases in the number of users, but still falls way behind Windows. In my opinion, the only thing that's holding back Linux is it's lack of entertainment, specifically in the game department. In order for Linux to truly take off, Linux needs a plethora of games to even try and be on the same level as Windows.
Where do you see Linux gaming in the next few years, and do you think it will directly affect the number of users?
arcane for life
ha. you fucking boner. way to make an ass out of yourself.
In other words, why is this an important point? [This is a serious question, BTW]
Will WarCraft3 use SDL at all? And the other question about WarCraft3?
The heat from below can burn your eyes out
Although it may not have the raw power of upcoming consoles, it has a thriving homebrew community with lots of emulators and other cool stuff. Dreamcast research for more details.
(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
This is so youy can use GPL'ed software in a private environment w/o the concern that you must make the source available to anyone who comes knocking. So supercorp. is allowed to take Linux or any other GPL product and custumoize with all sorts of cool proprietary knick knacks containing all their cool IP and code and not have to worry about being forced to legally distribute the achanges because a disgruntled employee blabs on slashdot. This remains true as long as supercorp never distributes the product to the public.
Fsck cluebie moderators. I'll say what I want, offtopic or not. And fsck having to qualify every bloody statement just
They only have to release the source to their modifications to those that they distributed the binary to. Perhaps Sam received the modified source with his copy.
Dinivin
PS IANAL
What most Linux enthusiasts have realized is that Linux needs marketing in order for it to become a prominent desktop platform for end-users. We've been getting some help from IBM and Compaq to name a couple. Since you are using Linux as the core of the PS2, would you consider advertising it as so? It seems to me that many computer-literate console players would be intrigued by seeing a "Powered by Linux" sticker on their PS2s enough to go out and buy/download a distro.
We dance to all the wrong songs.
--Refused.
First, thanks for SDL and SMPEG. They ran mpg321 very well for a while. Thanks, too, for your development help.
I know you probably get asked this a lot, but as a loyal Loki customer I just have to know: now that you and most other Loki programmers have moved on to bigger and better things, in your opinion does Loki have a chance in continuing to produce Linux games?
"You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it, under Section 2 in object code or executable form under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:
Accompany it with the complete corresponding machine-readable source code, which must be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange;
This information is available at RedHat's website-Google cache because it looks like the original is dead.
Have you flamed SpanishInquisition t
This is an advanced topic. Rendering libraries add a lot of overhead - simple fact. Explaining why would take too long. Suffice it to say that GL games on PS2 are pushing 1/4 - 1/10 the number of polygons as coded-to-the-metal games are.
SDL for PS2 is like Java for 6502 - if you can't program 6502, Java isn't going to help.
Also, what about a wrapper against D3D? There is currently a nice integration with OpenGL, when SDL needs to use 3D acceleration, but under Windows (where a lot of SDL games already exist) most of the coders are using D3D. Also, based on the fact that D3D 8 is not as bloated as previous versions, a wrapper for other OSes could be easily achieved (IMHO).
Last question, again on the spirit of 'SDL Vs DirectX', are there any plans for more support for more input devices, like force feedback wheels etc.
Take care and thank you for all the hard work you have put on SDL the last few years. (and also greatly thank you for the BeOS port! :)
SDL was written for porting games, and as such, you would expect most programs that use SDL to be written in C or C++, for speed. However, with the Python bindings for SDL, programmers can write in a better application programming language and still take advantage of your cross-platform "game" library. What applications do you envision with SDL and very-high-level languages?
If Sony is distributing a bootable version of the Linux kernel to people outside their organization, don't they have to make their modifications available to everyone under the GPL license? When I first heard about Linux on the PS2, I was excited (I have one) but apparently when I last checked they weren't selling it yet. Now with them sending you a copy, they're clearly distributing the kernel (plus the compiler and other utilities) in a closed format. What gives??
I was investigating the possibility of using the SDL as the lowest layer in the system. My goal was to replace X Windows entirely, and use SDL instead to create a window system based on OpenGL in a manner not to far fetched with what CoreGraphics is doing inside MacOS X. It appears that SDL on the platforms it supports (in my case linux) , relies on the XWindows windows server and event propagation model.
Do you think it would be feasible to plug something with less complexity than X Windows at the bottom of SDL to do such a task. How tied is SDL coupled with the platform architectures it supports?
-- I feel better now. Thanks for asking.
huh. coulda fooled me. I see reams of first-person shooters all using the quake engine, and loads of driving games indistinguishable except for the decal textures on the cars. Not to mention the reams of replace-the-character platform games on the gameboy.
I yearn for original games, like the glory days of Amiga gaming in Europe, with games like Lemmings, Syndicate, Cannon Fodder, Sensi Soccer, Project X,
Turrican, SWIV, etc.,etc. - All developed first for the Amiga and later ported to the PeeCee...
It could be worse. He could be all new-agey and hyphenate his last name with his significant other's. Maybe he marries someone named O'Conner and his name becomes O'Conner-Lantinga. Sounds kinda dirty, doesn't it?
As with any system, there are trade-offs. The PSX2 graphics chip (EmotionEngine) has a number of features which require careful programming to exploit, especially given the (relatively) limited main memory (32M). The question is to what extent you expect to compromise your API's growth in capability/portability to support gee-whiz features. The dual of this question is of course that with a cross-platform API, you tend to end up with something equally mediocre across all systems, potentially leading to a catch-up mentality in the marketing perception which is particularly fatal in the computer gaming sector which continually relies on new features to draw in users. How do you expect to handle these compromises without alienating too many of the stakeholders (developers, manufacturers, users, etc)?
LL
Actually, I interpreted the "overhead" to mean development time (as used in the context of the original post that I replied to).
:)
As far as I know, using a graphics/sound library can pretty much only speed up development time.
Then again... if I interpreted the original poster wrong... then you're right.
Personally, I don't care all that much about numbers of polygons. If it's that much easier to write a game, I think it's worthwhile.
When you buy playstation and playstation 2 consoles or games you're supporting the sony somputer entertainment division which is many times at odds with the rest of sony even though it makes up half the revenue. I'm pretty sure Sony Computer Entertainment has been pretty supportive of new technologies and has clashed in the past with the motion picture division of sony.