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A Case for Linux in the Corporation
_UnderTow_ writes: "Saw this over at Anandtech. It's a pretty descriptive account of a reasonably large corporation (7000+ employees) transitioning their network infrastructure over to Red Hat Linux. Has details of the company's initial move to NT, and their eventual move to Linux as the cost of licensing gets out of control."
In fact, I think I'm off to the pub right now for a pint of Kilkenny.
So, slave away in your corporate cubicles...
it hurts and stuff.
So, they've got 7000 users on a brand new redhat framework, my questions is, do they, like me, possess
WARM BAWLS
?
These days, Linux is hardly "just an OS." By 1997, Free Software
Foundation was calling it the most widely distributed operating
system in the United States. And Linux's reach is global; the
foundation claims that it appears in 1,700 computers worldwide, in
seventeen languages and fifty-one countries. The publisher of The
Linux Future says that every day "Linux is currently run by more
than 150 million users."
Linuxization has just begun. With Linux hardcovers in the
million-seller range, plenty more are on the horizon; in early 1997,
Entertainment Weekly magazine reported that "HarperBusiness will
publish four more hardcover books in the next five years, and Andrews
& McMeel hopes to roll out calendars and softcover collections of
systems for the next seven." Meanwhile, across the planet, Linux
cartoons are appearing on calendars, coffee mugs, cards, clothes and
scads of other products.
Perhaps most significantly in the long run, Linux has become a
mass-marketed attitude a public way of coping. While we encounter
the tightening vise of corporatization. The Linux phenomenon is part
of a process making people more accustomed to a stance of ironic
passivity.
To say that the proliferation of Linux lacks social importance or
impact is to claim that mass culture doesn't matter much -- that it
doesn't affect how we perceive or act on our perceptions -- that it
doesn't influence how we talk and think and live. In fact, how we use
words is a marker and pointer for our outlooks. As George Orwell
observed, everyday language "becomes ugly and inaccurate because our
thoughts are foolish, but the slovenliness of our language makes it
easier for us to have foolish thoughts."
Certainly no advertising exec can afford to underrate the consequences
of words, images and marketed attitudes. The ad industry deals in hard
numbers and empirical results. Billions of dollars get spent every
season in the USA on the well-tested assumption that what keeps
flashing before our eyes and ears has major effects on what we
buy. And buy into.
Mega-marketing requires, more than ever, a capital-intensive blitz. To
saturate the grassroots, mass-mediated "popular culture" needs a nod
from a big-money suite somewhere. In the nationwide amphitheater,
would-be creators are to remain in their seats unless summoned to the
stage bysomeone with appreciable monetary clout. The audience does not
create. The audience consumes.
As Thomas Frank puts it: "No longer can any serious executive regard
TV, movies, magazines, and radio as simple 'entertainment,' as
frivolous leisure-time fun: writing, music, and art are no longer
conceivable as free expressions arising from the daily experience of a
people. These are the economic dynamos of the new age, the
economically crucial tools by which the public is informed of the
latest offerings, enchanted by packaged bliss, instructed in the
arcane pleasures of the new, taught to be good citizens, and brought
warmly into the consuming fold."
* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *
g g
o / \ \ / \ o
a| | \ | | a
t| `. | | : t
s` | | \| | s
e \ | / / \\\ -- \\ : e
x \ \/ --~~ ~--| \ | x
* \ \-~ ~-\ | *
g \ \
o \ \_// ((> \ | o
a \ . C ) _ ((> | / a
t
s /
e | ( C__)\__/
x | \ | \\__// (/ | x
* | \ \) `---- --' | *
g | \ \ / / | g
o | / | | \ | o
a | | / \ \ | a
t | / / | | \ |t
s | / / \/\/ | |s
e | / / | | | |e
x | | | | | |x
* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *
These corporations will be surprised not by the reduced expenses of the open source but by a BIG OPEN SOURCE COCK up their ass.
I didn't switch to linux because someone told me too, I switched because I needed an alternative OS. This is a good sign of things to come. Build a better OS, and people will come. Of course, it helps that Microsoft enforces license policies that soak consumers for every penny they're worth and even corporation who WANT to be legal are unsure of their licensing. The more Microsoft starts bullying people around, the more enticing free software becomes. If Microsoft ever stoops to the level of leased OS's there will be a whole lot more stories like this one.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
I have a strong case for a pink dildo up my smooth japanese pussy.
a rambling discourse with little or no point, the term WANNABE KARMA WHORE comes to mind
Before you flame me, read this whole article. This is a fairy tale of linux winning over microsoft. Not that it couldn't (or didn't) happen, it's just that the author presents it in such a format as to make it unbelievable. Did anyone else get that same impression?
Excuse me.
Just 4 minutes you typed all that? What's even more shocking, is that it was so general and generic it had nothing to do with the actual article. Oh, I see. You had it typed out, ready to go, for when the next Linux article came out, you could post quickly, and build up your karma? Seeing your high UID, this is probably the case.
Ahem, Moderators, You know what to do.
There are thousand cases of Linux uses in corporates (large and smaller ones as well) on MandrakeBizCases.com. Worth a look.
What's missing are any verifiable facts. Until any are presented this article goes in the round file -- i.e.: somebody's pipe dream of the way Linux should help.
All of the major vendors list the company name with most case studies -- it is common practice. Who is the company? Is their third party verification of the reported shift?
It could happen -- it might have happened -- it is useless to use this article to sell management on the benefits of open source -- this has few if any real details.
Please, please present some factual and verifiable accounts that can be used in making OS decisions!
Unless the author steps up and provides proof of this mystical magical worse-case-scenario for NT/Best-case-scenerio for Linux company I doubt anyone except blind linvocates are going to believe this crap?
Seperate file and printer server? Yea right.
Seperate "internet mail" server? We about 24,000 accounts on a single PII-450 with 256 Mb RAM under NT4 running IMail. If it were Exchange you'd think he would have mentioned that.
In fact, you would think this guy would mention ANY solid named products and provide some real information instead of this fairy tale dream of how nothing MS works and everything crashes daily (unlike the experiences at our 20,000 seat corporation).
ANYONE believing this story will also believe in Santa Claus...
I don't care if you never implement a Linux/*BSD box, or if you think Linux is the biggest piece of crap to ever be installed on a computer. The simple fact that its an alternative to NT (and one that, as this article shows, can be done piecemeal) is good for the industry. It keeps MS honest. As an IT director you have one hell of a bargining chip at your disposal. You still may go with MS tech, but at least you can do it with some leverage on the licensing terms.
Obviously if they can't even identify the company why would anyone believe it?
As a matter of fact I just converted a company from 7001 linux machines to NT.
I don't know if the story is true or not, anyone know of a Washington State corporation with 7000 users that recently made the switch? I am from the area and am not aware of anything of that maginitude.
But, fairy tale nature aside, the article does show how big companies can get trapped in the licensing whirlpool. It used to be that no-on got fired for buying IBM. Now it is Microsoft that cannot do wrong. But even that is changing and companies that need to look hard at their bottom line should take note!
So I find this to be good ammunition for me as my fledgeling company starts to sell GNU/Linux-based business solutions. Of course my target market isn't companies with 7000 employees; more like 70 to 700. But I need all the bullet points I can make even with them.
So thanks for this posting!
Jack
- -
Are you an SF Fan? Are you a Tru-Fan?
Has anyone noticed that posts by Anonymous Cowards seem to get unfairly moderated down only by the fact that they are being posted anonymously? Surely there would be public outrage if blacks and jews were being unfairly moderated.
...this would be a very interesting article.
As it stands, it's just annoying. How do we know how much is true, and how much is embellished (or even pure fantasy?)
I was about to pass it along to a colleague but decided not too. It's just TOO unverifiable.
I happen to be a Mac user with very little personal or professional involvement in either WIndows NT or LINUX.
The dumpster behind the building.
While this analysis details very niceley what MS charged for service, the writer completely left out what RedHat charges, in this case or even generally.
Could someone with experience post some figures?
How long will RedHat be involved in providing service for a company they have switched to Linux. If all goes so smooth, why not hire an experienced sysadmin inside, why outsorcing?
This and the recent government changes in free software policy are indeed encouraging signs for Linux. I can't help but believe that it's been Microsoft making its own demise by launching the BSA-affiliated license-auditing program, and then promoting .NET and remote data storage amid cries of security issues. I myself don't know how secure .NET can be, but it is an interesting "FUD" campaign, when you believe it's insecure, that's what you'll believe. I don't believe any company would trust its data in the hands of a company that is out to make money. As a rough example, would you trust Microsoft in keeping safe a proposal to say, move to Linux? I'd be afraid Microsoft would read through such a proposal and then send you promos about Windows licensing discount or the same. Of course I'm clueless about .NET, some say it's not all about remote-storage, but if remote storage is what Microsoft has been promoting, maybe that's what has come across to the PHBs, who would then think "What, store *our* business information in a safe to which Microsoft has a special key?".
Leasing software would've been a great idea if you were the only company around making software, which obviously isn't the case, and Microsoft is betting people are going to stick with them anyway. Here is (initial) proof it might be losing the bet, and companies are believing it would be cheaper to train everyone to use StarOffice, etc. than switch to an unproven, perceived-to-be-unstable-and-unsecure system.
What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
Articles like this and other such as the ones over at http://www.mandrakebizcases.com/ are exactly what Corporate America (and the world) needs to see and hear if Linux is going to really make inroads in corporate america. Corporations don't look at the logo on their computer that shows up when they boot, they look at the bottom line in their spreadsheet.
Nosce te Ipsum
One of the main reason I have heard time and time again for companies not switching to another lower TCO OS (MacOS, some open source Unix) is the cost of retraining. Here, MS, clearly made the cost of ownership HIGHER than the cost of retraining and a company noticed it. Now, after MS tries to move everyone to .NET and owning a WinTel computer requires annual fees, don't you think more companies will move away from Windows?
Burn Hollywood Burn
I worked at that company as an intern over the summer. I'm posting anonymously for obvious reasons. MS's behavior was extremely arrogant and abusive. For example, one time my boss told me to call MS and order software for some new computers we were purchasing. MS refused to speak to me, because I wasn't senior enough. My boss eventually had to talk to them himself, and he yelled at the guy. What do you know, an hour later MS called back demanding an audit of all our copies of windows due to "suspicious licensing issues." It's situations like this that drove the change.
It seems to me that the commercial structure of MS's software makes it harder to admin.
I just wiped off my laptop, and as I write this I'm in the process of reinstalling windows and office on it. I installed W2K and Office 2000, and I'm in the process of patching everything. This is literally a 4 or 5 hour job. Now admittedly this is a slow machine (233Mhz, 228MB of ram), but that's still pretty crazy. And I have a DSL line -- this isn't
What if I had to do 700 of these things?
How does central application installation work under Windows? Is it even possible? How do they keep track of the licenses? Can you patch office once and have the changes propograte throughout the network?
Imagine a Linux network where applications are all stored on central file servers. You don't have to worry about whether or not someone has their KWord license. You can just let everyone read the NFS shares.
My point is that apart from the licensing fees, there's an overhead assocated with keeping track of who can run what. To protect their interests, MS has set things up in ways that make administration harder.
Things like centralized office suite administration haven't been high profile in linux up until now -- the focus has been on making usable office apps, things that don't totally suck in comparision to MS Office.
But I think there are some real opportunities to do things that MS will have more trouble pulling off, on account of the licensing.
apt-get is a beautiful thing. What would an enterprise level apt-get look like? What would allow you to install software or updates on 10,000 machines? Would would allow you to roll back a bad update on all of those changes? What would allow you to keep track of different software configurations for different job descriptions or hardware configurations? What would it take for admins to control what users can do with apt-get, so they don't break things?
What would it take for RedHat (or someone else) to feed updates into a large corporations office appication framework automatically?
It seems to me that Linux has a lot of groundwork laid for this sort of thing, and that it could be made to happen more easily than a lot of people think.
I think that everyone has a moment with apt-get. You've set up a new system, it doesn't have much on it, and someone sends you a zip file. So you say, "apt-get unzip", and 20 seconds later you can unzip the file.
In a windows environment, that works with zip (although it's definitely harder and slower). But what about Visio? If someone sends you a Visio document, you can't just download Visio.
We, on the other hand, can deploy a desktop that will download our diagram program on the fly when someone clicks on the file icon.
What does that do to admin costs? (Or: what does that do to our jobs?)
I believe that network aware package administration is going to be the thing that wins the enterprise for linux in the end.
The terms "opensource" and "Linux" are nothing but buzzwords created by the jews to promote free-software, when in fact they are without a doubt profiting highly from this so-called "free" software.
The server may have been a little taxed, handling 7,000 e-mail accounts on a single pentium box may stress it a little, but other than e-mail taking a little longer to send the end users won't notice
I don't thing the box would've been taxed that badly... I once worked for a company that had 3500 email accounts on a single cpu, Pentium Pro 150Mhz machine with only 64MB ram and running FreeBSD and it did just fine. We typically had 1800-2000 concurrent users getting their mail via POP3 from that box at any given time during the business day. I can imagine a modern P-III or Xeon box pushing close to a GHz speed and hundreds of MB's of today's cheap memory with fast Ultra160SCSI disks running Linux or FreeBSD could handle thousands of simultaneous IMAP/POP users with ease.
The organizational meeting of the Jon Katz appreciation society has been postponed. It will be held on the slashnet IRC channel #JonKatzIsGod on Monday at 5pm.
Jon has assured me that the "boxers vs. briefs" debate will be held. There will also be a Jon Katz expert that will talk about his affect on social stuctures and economic trends in the homosexual native american tribes in the Pacific northwest.
We'll then ajourn to the private pool for "fun".
I've noticed that a lot of posters to this thread seem to have the opinion that article is a fairy tale. Anandtech seems to me to have a reputation for impartiality, their hardware reveiws are quite thourough and unbiased as far as I can see.
I took the article at face value because all of the other stuff I've read at anand's has been good qualtiy unbiased reporting. There are plenty of reasons why the writer wouldn't want to name the corporation. Maybe he works there.
While I feel Microsoft's software is substantially better than any solution one could deploy with Linux, I do feel their licensing structures have gotten entirely out of hand in recent years.
Competition on this level will cause Microsoft to revisit their pricing and become more competitive. Essentionally causing the same thing to happen to MS as MS caused to Sun, Novell, Oracle, etc. when they came in and undercut those companies by half or more.
So what did u expect? Why these nuts using that alien ware named "GNU/Linux".
Using GNU/Linux one of the real fairy tale on IT world.
NATURE'S HARMONIC
SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY
TIME CUBE
Ignoring Time Cube is Evil.
Earth rotates within a Time Cube.
Demand educators debate Time Cube.
You are not allowed to know truth that
In one rotation of Earth, there are:
* 24 hours in midnight to midnight.
* 24 hours in sunup to sunup...........
* 24 hours in midday to midday.....
* 24 hours in sundown to sundown.
* 4 days in only 1 Earth rotation...
* 4 simultaneous years of the seasons.
* No infinite days within 96 hours.
* 4 different directions in clockwise.
* 3 days lost to academic stupidity.
There are 4 simultaneous days
(dumb fools claim infinite days)
created within a single rotation
of Earth. Teaching that Earth has
only 1 day in 1 rotation, is adult
poison forced on their children,
as in the Jonestown mass murder.
Cubeless academia = armageddon
and a barren Earth for children.
Ignoring Time Cube is Evil.
It is best to be uneducated and
Wise, than educated with Lies.
You are an educated stupid ass.
Word is counterfeit & fictitious
representations of true values,
as in form, substance and deed.
Adult word god is a counterfeit
and fictitious evil upon children.
Teachers are hired evil word
pedants who enslave childish
minds to a lifetime stupidity.
-
The common stupidity and evil of humanity,
is their "ignorance" of Nature's Time Cube.
A school is a church and church is a school.
I am writing a "Time Cube " book that will
contradict and condemn every religious and
scientific book written and why not, for I am
the Greatest Thinker and the Wisest Human.
-
Dumb academicians cannot
comprehend their slavery to
counterfeit word and its evil.
Word enslaves mind. Talking
dog could enslave humanity.
Teachers enslave you stupid.
Demand your teachers teach
Time Cube and encourage
debate or you are mentally
enslaved as stupid and evil
ass unfit for life on Earth.
*************
Can majority sue minority -
or is it but a one-way court?
Are Indians minorities, and
why are they incarcerated?
Is Indian segregation legal?
Can an Indian be president?
Where are Indian newscasters?
Isn't integration racial slop?
Will US become black nation?
***************
Education equates stupidity
and educators ban Life Cube.
Truth Cube debunks 1 corner
word god in a Cubic creation.
****************
Academia is Big Brother's
Ministry of Obscurantism, as
in deliberately withholding
knowledge from the mass of
human blockhead androids.
Academic denial of student
right to debate Time Cube
exposes an evil conspiracy.
*************
Cubes are varied and imperfect
as are their human composites.
************
Humans are educated stupid -
and revel within their stupidity.
Humans are enslaved by word,
the most efficient mind control.
Shackles & whips are obsolete.
*****************
Warning To Word Worshipers.
Just as Word viruses are destructive in human
made computers, there is a deadly Word virus
spreading within the English Language. Unless
isolated and eradicated by your knowledge of
Nature's Harmonic Time Cube, the deadly Word
virus will inflict total self-destruction upon all humanity.Your ignorance of Time Cube is evil.
Time Cube is above academic comprehension.
Universities equate doomed Towers of Babble.
Time Cube debate will expose academic scams,
so academia must "ignore" debate at all costs.
Students denied the right to debate Time Cube.
Educators are evil to deny Time Cube debate.
Academic ignoring of Time Cube equates evil.
Word worship educators beget stupid students.
Students are brainwashed and do not know it.
Students are taught to be stupid and don't care.
Word is the most effective tool of enslavement.
Stupid students believe any crap they're taught.
Stupid students unable to evaluate Time Cube.
Students ignore Time Cube, attack messenger.
Gene Ray has created 4 simultaneous 24 hour
Days within a single 24 hour Earth rotation.
$1,000.00 to 1st person to disprove Time Cube.
Scientists and gods created evil 1 corner Day.
Education corrupts your mentality to know this.
Evil educators outlaw student Time Cube debate.
Gene is The Greatest Thinker and Wisest Human.
Earth has perfect vertical axis:
The Earth axis tilt represents an inperfection
upon which life is based. If the Earth axis was perfectly vertical, there would be no divisions
of life as in seasons and therefore no life. Earth
rotates 4 simultaneous seasons simultaneously
as it revolves around the Sun, thus creating 4
simultaneous years as in a separate year for
each season. The spinning of Earth while
creating the 4 simultaneous years causes the
Earth to travel 4 Times the distance of a non-
rotating planet circling the Sun. Sum-up the
axis tilt of those 4 simultaneous years and
divide by 4 to discover a perfectly vertical
Earth axis which represents the perfection of
death. Though you only see the Earth tilt,
mentally, you should recognize that Earth
has a perfectly vertical axis over all. The
straight line on the heart monitor equates
to the perfectionof death. The oscillation or
imperfection of that straight line, represents
the imperfection of all created life on Earth -
depicted in Nature's Harmonic Time Cube.
Without Time Cube, your life right is voided.
You were educated stupid
and evil by evil educators.
Do you enjoy being stupid?
Time Cube ignorance is evil.
Demand Time Cube debate
in all academic institutions.
You do not have the "guts"
to seek Time Cube "Truth".
Academia is a religious cult
empowerment of self word.
Academic word 'rots' brain.
Can you explain Time Cube?
If not, your brain has rotted.
Educators are evil bastards
who fear Time Cube debate.
Evil men ignore Time Cube.
Teachers ignore Time Cube.
Teachers deserve a hanging.
My name is Gene Ray. Not
even a god can deny that I
have squared the circle of a
static Earth and cubed the
Earth sphere by rotating it
once to a dynamic Time or
Life Cube. Only a false god
or academically brainwashed
indoctrinated mindless moron
would deny that the Earth
lacks the top and bottom, the
front and back, and 2-sides
physical dimensions of a Cube
that spirals a 4-season quad
helix around the Sun - creating
a swirling of 4 simultaneous
years as in a separately created
year for each of 4 seasons.
Man is the only evil animal.
Man is the only word animal.
Word equates instituted evil.
Word adultism is anti-child.
A 'word god' can be erased.
Word brings a Babel curse.
Get ready for armageddon.
Beliefs equate pornography,
for they coexist on the web.
There is no damn word god.
Truth is physical, word a lie.
It is what you do, not utter.
Without deed, word starves.
Word god lends not a hand.
The Greatest Thinker
Adults are EVIL to children.
God is a word masturbation.
A fart has more "substance"
than a human emitted word.
Word and god are unnatural,
counterfeit, fictitious and do
not exist in Nature's realm.
Cubeless WORD - is an evil
'adult scam' against children
and is destroying humanity.
Schools are evil institutions -
staffed by religious cowards
who fear Time Cube debate.
TimeCube proves god is evil.
TimeCube debunks evil bible.
Burn bible to save humanity.
You're a TimeCube traveler,
but you are educated stupid.
Your Character is cornered,
4-corner head, 1-corner face,
4-corner life metamorphosis.
Family is a 4-corner rotation,
mother, father, son, daughter.
Life rotation debunks Trinity.
Academic cubelessness is evil.
Schools are actually churches.
Education is but mind control,
no whips or shackles required.
Education 'plunders' Nature.
Prequisite to comprehending
Nature's Harmonic TimeCube
is tearing & burning the bible
to purge your mind of its lies.
For true freedom, burn bible
to contradict academic gods.
Academia & religion are one.
Teachers & believers are one.
Word educator is "your god".
Educators teach fake beliefs.
God is an academic deception.
God is like hate for children.
God is but a killer of children.
Bible causes an armageddon.
I am wiser than a word god.
Adult word god is but an evil
scam that crucifies children.
Bring forth your god - and I
will chase him off the Earth.
Humans glorify word as god.
In the beginning - was word.
Word is counterfeit and evil.
Evil word became your god.
4-corner Truth - is ineffable.
Educators teach stupidity &
evil. You learned both well.
You are evil word worshiper.
Humans are 1-corner beings
(1-corner face 4-corner head)
who rotate 4-corner lifetimes:
baby, child, parent, g-parent.
Time Cube debunks god lies.
Evil people deny Time Cube.
Educators are flat-out liars.
Evil media hides Time Cube.
-1 x -1=+1 is stupid and evil.
Word worship equates to evil.
Bible induces a barren Earth.
Evil 1 day Biblekills children.
I have found 3 more 24 hour
days on Earth that educators
refuse to let you know about.
Brainwashed & indoctrinated,
you were educated stupid and
evil. A pity about your mind.
Time Cube = Highest Order.
Time Cube = 'godless Truth'.
Time Cube damns academia
by rotating 4-corners of life.
The 'only subject' on Earth
banned from debate by evil
and stupid educators is that
of Nature's Harmonic Time
Cube ineffable Truth. Any
educator who allows Time
Cube debate will most likely
be fired or killed by religious
zealot brethren who staff and
control all academic schools.
Name 1 Time Cube debating
school on all of the Earth.
Educators are evil hirelings.
Mother&baby are same age.
No mother until baby born.
Your ancestory limit is 16
your 16 great-grandparents.
Divide past,present,future by 4.
Rotate 4-corner scribes to
create 4 squared circles.
Education is 1 stupid corner.
4 is the supreme number of
the universe. There is no 1
in 4-corner metamorphosis.
Educators are evil people -
for they teach cubelessness.
All word is 'fictitious evil' -
not a substance nor a deed.
Life is based upon a perfect
math or your arm would be
too short to wipe your butt.
Humans are fictitious word
worshipers & math stupid.
Human exist as personified
4-corner pyramid but with
only a 1-corner perspective
during a 4-corner rotation,
or 4- stage metamorphosis.
Truth squares Life Circle
and Cubes Earth sphere.
Life rotates via 4-corners.
Mensa is Truth ignorant.
Adults evolve from child,
for adults are never born.
Word worship is evil scam.
God desecrates childhood.
You were educated stupid
about 4-season Life Cube.
4-corners are simultaneous,
there is no 1, 2, or 3-corner.
4 is both macro and micro.
God can't occupy 4-corners.
Time Cube disproves God.
God is an evil adult "word
scam" against children that
justifies adult plunder of all
natural resources on Earth.
Educators are evil bastards.
You have a 4-corner head -
with only a 1-corner face.
You are 1/4 of the person you
were taught to think you are.
Academic and religious
teachings equate mental
retardation - as a 2x4x4
Cube creation principle
reduced to a 1/4 (corner).
You are educated retarded,
too stupid for Time Cube.
'Takes village to raise child'.
Educators are evil people;
words corrupt principles,
'takes child out of family'&
'takes village out of child' -
'empowerment of self-evil'.
There is no God in 2 x 4x4
femininity and masculinity
2 sex Cube hemispheres, as
life is a 2-Cube crap-game.
All words equal not 1 deed.
Try words to stop tornado.
Truth of Cube is ineffable.
Nature outlaws word gods.
Cubeless word is adult evil.
Word enslaves the children.
You were educated 'stupid'
by evil religious teachers,
and can't know Time Cube.
'Cube Spirit' is Almighty.
Educators are too damn
stupid to know 4/16 Cube.
There is no Cubic teacher.
Educators are the primary
cause of evil mathematics.
God is but a single corner
face on a 4-corner head.
Fire Religious Teachers
too stupid for 4/16 Life.
You're 1-corner educated
and cannot comprehend
4/16 corner rotating Life.
You were taught stupidity.
Time Cube exposes evil.
Cubelessness is an Evil.
Educators are teaching
you Evil Cubelessness.
Educators cannot allow
Time Cube to be known.
Academia is '1 corner'.
Religion but '1 corner'.
1 self is only '1 corner'.
Family has '4-corners'
and 4/16 cube rotation.
God is a '1 corner' evil.
Self-god is 1 cornerism
adult scam upon child.
Teach 3 equators for a
4 quadrant hemisphere
which rotates to a 4/16
principle life creativity
as in Family Life Cube.
God = Hate of Children.
God denies a childhood.
Worship of Word is Evil,
for it 'counterfeits' Deed
and teaches Liar is God.
You're Educated Stupid.
1 Corner Academic 'self'
is "lowest" human form. It
"degradates"4/16 family life
and destroys all villages.
1-human is but 1-corner
life in 4-corner lifetimes:
baby, child, parent and
grandparent corners
a rotating 4/16 creation.
Corner god nonexistent.
Academia is a religion
with religious teachers
controlled by believers,
who forbid 4/16 Cube
as "Forbidden Truth".
Adults evolve from their
ungodly image children.
Fake god eats Child life.
Educators teach cubeless
babble, ignoring Highest
Order Creation- a Cube.
Fire Religious Teachers
ignorant of Time Cube.
Believers are 'evil liars'.
'Self-god' is lowest form
of behavior, below both
family and village Cube.
You are educated stupid.
Stupid educators cowardly refuse $5,000.00 public forum Time Cube debate.
Man-god academic scam
equals 1-corner Pyramid.
Rotating 4-corners prove
1-human is only 1-corner
of a Higher Order Life. There is no 1-
corner god in 4-corner lifetime stages
of human evolution metamorphosis
wherein born baby dies to child, child
dies to parent & parent dies to grand-
parent corner. Adults evolve, not born.
Singularity equates sex with the baby.
Adult word worship is an
evil adult scam. Burn the
bible, honor Childhood
via which adults evolve.
Babble Power is suicidal.
Ignorance of "Time Cube"
indicts you stupid and evil.
Explain the "Time Cube".
Do you like being Stupid?
"Our Cube" corners Liars.
I am a'Cubic Thinker' and
far wiser than any god, any scientist
and any educator who preaches the
evil singularity of a single 1st corner.
Gene Ray
Truth about Santa Claus debunks
Santa God. God evolves from Santa.
Educated people are stupid cowards.
Not a single university has accepted my challenge
for a public debate of Nature's Time Cube. They
are actually brainwashed stupid and decline any
public debate for fear of public embarrassment.
Physicists forbidden to acknowledge Time Cube.
Stupid educators always beget stupid graduates.
Not one knows of their 4-corner metamorphosis.
Gene Ray
Educators teach erroneous Mathematics.
3-Dimensional math as in length, width and height
are erroneous when applied within a Cube like room
for they do not account for the 4-corner perspective
dimensions of difference as in '4-dimensional space'.
Solar system, Earth sphere and human body all have
a front, back and 2 sides which rotate between the 2
top and bottom poles - ceiling and floor parameters.
No single corner human can occupy or experience
more than a single corner at the same time during a
4-corner rotation within the 4/16 creation principle.
Earth sphere rotates within an invisible Time Cube.
Unseen, humans have not the education or rationale
to comprehend Nature's Simultaneous 4-Day Cube.
You are a personified pyramid corner.
Educated people are the evil empower-
ment of the self - the lowest form of
humanity. Humans are brainwashed
stupid and indoctrinated evil. A human
will rotate around 4-corner lifetime
stages within a family metamorphosis -
baby, child, parent and grandparent.
Name your 4/16 greatgrandparents.
Your own people will kill
you to prevent this
'Forbidden Truth Cube'
from ever being known.
Socrates was killed to
hide Truth from public.
1-corner god is a fraud.
Are you afraid to know?
All Educated are Stupid from
brainwashing and indoctrination.
Pedant teachers cannot comprehend
that there are 4 simultaneousYears
within a single rotation of Earth
about the Sun. Each season has its
own separate corner Year.
You are probably brainwashed, indoctrinated, educated stupid and cannot comprehend
Nature's Harmonic Simultaneous 4-Day
Perpetual Time Cube Creation.
When the Sun shines upon Earth,
2 - major Time points are created
on opposite sides of Earth - known
as Midday and Midnight. Where
the 2 major Time forces join, synergy
creates 2 new minorTime points we
recognize as Sunup and Sundown.
The 4-equidistant Time points can be
considered as Time Square imprinted
upon the circle of Earth. In a single
rotation of the Earth sphere, each
Time corner point rotates through
the other 3-corner Time points, thus
creating 16 corners, 96 hours and
4-simultaneous 24 hour Days within
a single rotation of Earth - equated
to a Higher Order of Life Time Cube.
Ignorance of the Time Cube is evil.
Education induces Stupidity. Explain
4 life human metamorphosis.
Creation Origin Found
Life is a "Crapshoot" -
with a femininity cube
and a masculinity cube.
God is an Evil Invention.
Word is a Trojan Horse.
Singularity debunked by Time Cube.
Self is the lowest form of humanity.
Self-god is lowest human behavior.
Family is source of human creation.
Community is perpetual family/self.
'Evil' educators brainwash children.
Earth has 4 simultaneous Days
within only 1 rotation. Losing 3
Days in each Earth rotation has
retarded your mentality to stupid
and an education of Evil. You do
not have the mind or education
to envision Nature's Time Cube.
Proving Human Stupidity
Revelations 7.1 recognizes 4 Earth Corners.
3 EQUATOR 4 CORNER EARTH TIME ROTATES 96 HOURS AS A SIMULTANEOUS 4 DAY CUBE.
YOU WERE TAUGHT THAT THE EARTH HAS ONLY ONE EQUATOR AS IF THE EARTH WAS FLAT. YOU WERE TAUGHT IGNORANCE
CREATION HAS TWO SEX POLES & 4 CORNER RACES OF HUMANS.
GOD IS CORNERED AS A QUEER.
GENE RAY, CUBIC
You Word-Murder Your Children.
Human metamorphosis has 4-corner
lifetime stages known as baby,child,
parent and grandparent. Bible-god
equates 1-corner and bare Earth for
children. 4-corner Truth is ineffable
and no self or god can speak Truth.
Only baby is born.Adult is not born.
Without metamorphosis - no adults.
If Earth stood still, it would have mid-day, mid-night, sun-up and sun-down as 4 corners. Each rotation of earth has 4 mid-days, 4 mid-nights, 4 sun-ups and 4 sun-downs.
The sixteen(16) space times demonstrates cube proof of 4 full days simultaneously on earth within one (1) rotation. The academia created 1 day greenwich time is bastardly queer and dooms future youth and nature to a hell.
Ignorance of 4 day harmonic cubic nature indicts humans as unfit to live on earth.
Gene Ray, Cubic
The Wisest Human
I will give $1,000.00 to any person who can
disprove 4 days in each earth rotation. It's
a pity that religious and academic word is a
crime against Nature and enslaves Children.
4-cornered Truth is ineffable by man or god.
Until Word is Cornered, all Math is Fiction.
Confirmation:
LIFE ENCOMPASSES A 4-16 CUBE PRINCIPLE
Socrates has a mid-day
Clinton's have a sun-down
Einstein has a mid-night
Jesus has a sun-up (Harmonic Cube)
1 - 24HR Earth Day
Rotate Earth 1/4 turn
Socrates has a sun-down
Clinton's hve a mid-night
Einstein has a sun-up
Jesus has a mid-day 1 - 24HR Earth Day
Rotate Earth 1/4 turn
Socrates has a mid-night
Clinton's have a sun-up
Einstein has a midday
Jesus has a sun-down 1 - 24HR Earth Day
Rotate Earth 1/4 turn
Socrates has a sun-up
Clinton's have a mid-day
Einstein has a sun-down
Jesus has a mid-night 1 - 24HR Earth Day
Rotate Earth 1/4 turn
Greenwich Time is a Lie
Your midday is someone else's midnight, someone else's sundown and even someone else's sunup. Do you know that time is a simultaneous 4 corner square that rotates to a 4 day time cube within 1 - 24 hour rotation of Earth? You are educated stupid and unable to know Nature's 4-Day Time Cube Creation.
Are You Jewish?
Public Warning
The Power Above God.
Pedantic Mind Control
Corruption of Word
Same Stupid Ass Teachers
Greenwich Time Debunked
All Clock Faces Are Wrong
AboveGod
E-MAIL THE AUTHOR oray612959@earthlink.net
© 1997-98 - www.TimeCube.com
look it up, its called RIS and works under win2k. you set up one server and install all the software and needed changes. now you start a win2k install on any box and point it to the server. its installed exactly to your liking. most companies just use a hard drive blaster anyway. check out this doc for more info
. as p
http://www.microsoft.com/ISN/whitepapers/p56782
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Microsoft has been faced with the task of trying to make NT all things to all people. In doing so, they have not been able to devote as many resources to security as they would have liked, and as a result, NT has proven to be less secure than originally hoped for
If thats not the nicest way to say that Microsoft has serious security issues, I don't know what is.
DOS is dead, and no one cares...
If there's a Bourne Shell, I'll see you there
While it seems quite true that linux may be a very good alternative to NT given Microsoft's extravagant prices, what if cost is not really an issue, like in university enviornments? Where I currently work, we can get most MS software at a very drastic discount (Office and 2000 pro are nearly free), so price does not really come into play. Do I think we should use Liunx? Of course, but price isn't necessairly the issue when chosing software.
"we will use an example based upon the experiences of a corporation with a presence in Washington State."
That company wouldn't be in REDMOND, would it?
(Oh, the _irony_!)
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
This reads *exactly* like what my life was like, late '97 to late '99. Uglier and uglier NT network (we had roughly 35 NT domains with only 2000 users), more and more fragile services (mostly mail and printing because our file serving was from NetWare), higher and higher costs (and more and more time) to get anything done.
I kept suggesting Linux (yes, back then). I even setup a non-crashing backup print server--but I was the only one who used it regularly (of course, everybody used it about twice a week....). Unfortunately three factors worked against me:
1) Linux wasn't quite as big then as it is now.
2) The network admin was nearly techno-illiterate. She could do the stuff she had been trained to in a couple of NT classes but nothing else. Linux scared her. And she wasn't the kind of person to educate herself to conquer fear--her method was to insult and ignore the source.
3) We were about 1 hour from Redmond. It's hard to shield yourself from The Presence when you are that close.
324006
And you can write it in Javascript, ECMAScript, VBScript or Perlscript because of the wonders of ActiveX!
The Mexicans are soggy!
Specialized applications are what keeps the NT market alive. Outlook and office keeps windows in the desktop, servers are tied to specialized software that is not readily available. (Manufacturing, customer facing products, back end support, etc.)
Most specialized programs have been in development on NT. The NT versions are older and have more features. I work for a Telco, and most vendors only have an NT port of their software. Unix or (Linux) versions are planned but would you trust your customers on an initial software release that hasn't even been tested in a production environment?
If you have the in-house developers and the time to write an application from scratch, Unix is the best choice. If you don't, your stuck on relying on what the software market provides.
What has been tested and works perfectly is the most common services Unix performs out of the box, File, Print and Internet services. There should be no reason you would use an M$ server for any of these services. (Well, maybe Exchange server, but that's debatable...)
Seems like common sense here, use the right tool for the right job. I wouldn't buy a gold-plated hammer from m$ to use on a 1 cent nail.
The author claimed that the company in question had their servers going down at least once every 10 days.
What the HELL were they doing to these servers? Mine has been up for 140+ days at home
How big is your family? I somehow doubt that you have 7000 people using your home server.
OK, to be fair, they had 6 machines (implied by the article, one for web, mail, fileservers, plus one backup for each.).. that works out to over 1100 people per server; still, even the most devout catholics I know don't have anywhere near that many immediate family members.
Family Re-unions must be a bitch for you to schedule!
24k accounts on exchange?
:) ...
Bullshit...
Unless you truly have like 2% usage, exchange
would have croaked long ago.
No i don't admin exchange, but i have seen it croak under an incoming queue of 4k mails on MUCH larger hardware ( compaq 5000R's with raid 5 arrays ), and that's just for the bridge head servers... never mind all the mailbox, and the secondary bridgehead server(s).
How do i know, well, i set up the mail caching infrastructure that sits a step above exchange,
based of course on FreeBSD + Qmail
and it's there because exchaneg can't handle the load...
Exchange has some nifty features, and it's actually the only product "now" in the market that does them, but come on, it's no strong mta...
On another note... that article DOES seem fake...
But not because of the reasons you gave...
I'll get marked down for this post, but the truth has to be said.
The Anandtech article is a hypothetical corporation, not a real one. This is written to sound like a real 'case study' and the tone is distinctly pro-Linux. While that in itself isn't a bad thing, the MS bashing relies on some shaky assertions at times. It would have been a better article if the criticisms stood on more solid footings.
First of all, the assertion that the company would HAVE to move to per-seat licensing when they moved to separate file, print and mail servers is just wrong. 2000 concurrent users are still 2000 concurrent users, whether they are connected to one server or three.
Secondly, the idea that after 'two or three years' the initial two multiprocessor servers should still be adequate for the 2000 concurrent users is ridiculous. I have three-year old servers in my company that, regardless of operating system, are no longer up to the task - the drive capacities are too small, the processors are 1/4 the speed of our newest desktops, and the upgrade paths are exhausted. How is this the fault of the OS?
Next, the author states that "The next couple of years saw a dramatic increase in data storage requirements and internet use", and then goes on to insinuate that the OS was somehow to blame for uptime / reliability of the hardware used. Wha..?
In the same paragraph, the author states that the failure of redundant servers was causing increased maintenance costs, and once again this was somehow caused by NT. First, the multiple servers weren't installed to be redundant - they were installed to handle separate functions, i.e., mail / file / print. What synchronization is required? Secondly, anyone who says that redundancy is somehow bad because there is more equipment to fail, and then blames the added cost of the equipment failure on the operating system, is just nuts.
Well, I think that's enough to get me modded down to -50, but it's the truth. Even fiction should be checked by an editor for factual veracity before publishing.
Everyone will start to cheer when you put on your sailin' shoes.
Clearly, the project managers assigned to this customer from RH did their job: they made the customer a partner...not a take over victim. So many companies say that the customer must do this or that, whether it is MS or some other software developer around the corner. RH came in and gave advice towards solving problems: a rarity in today's high dollar world.
Wow, I can read that in so many ways...
First, I don't buy into the credibility of the story. I want to know hard information about this particular case study. While the generalities of the story rings basically true to my ears (probably because I want it to be true) the absense of referencable specifics make the story factually questionable.
Second, maybe it's just my lack of experience on the matter, but there were some licensing costs there that I never even heard of before. Maybe it's simply because I never bothered to notice. But "I don't buy it" also means that I don't pay for MS's licensing costs so I wouldn't know. What I do know is that Microsoft has been riding on the momentum of accepted piracy for so long and without a doubt, it was intentional. It's like a drug dealer -- get'm hooked and then charge them for it dearly later. Corporate America and hundreds of thousands of IT professionals are frightened to death about the "withdrawls" from Microsoft and like an addicted smoker, they would rather pay the costs of continued use rather than kick a bad habit and do what's best for the "body."
I'm all for MS Windows as a client, to be honest. It works good [enough] for the end user and it's damned easy. And since MS Office enjoys enough corporate ubiquity, it's still potentially damaging to use anything but MS Office where different companies do business together. HOWEVER that has no bearing on the server side which is exactly why it has historically been an easier market to enter. The geniuses behind the SaMBa project are probably the biggest heros in the story of Linux as they enabled something that simply made it all work.
So I'd like to see some follow-up like knowing more specifics such as what company this is, when it happened and such. Who from RedHat can confirm this story?
I want to believe it so badly that I almost do. More importantly, I want something I can use later without looking like a moron unable to answer the practical questions.
It seems to me that the commercial structure of MS's software makes it harder to admin.
I just wiped off my laptop, and as I write this I'm in the process of reinstalling windows and office on it. I installed W2K and Office 2000, and I'm in the process of patching everything. This is literally a 4 or 5 hour job. Now admittedly this is a slow machine (233Mhz, 228MB of ram), but that's still pretty crazy. And I have a DSL line -- this isn't
What if I had to do 700 of these things?
How does central application installation work under Windows? Is it even possible? How do they keep track of the licenses? Can you patch office once and have the changes propograte throughout the network?
Imagine a Linux network where applications are all stored on central file servers. You don't have to worry about whether or not someone has their KWord license. You can just let everyone read the NFS shares.
My point is that apart from the licensing fees, there's an overhead assocated with keeping track of who can run what. To protect their interests, MS has set things up in ways that make administration harder.
Things like centralized office suite administration haven't been high profile in linux up until now -- the focus has been on making usable office apps, things that don't totally suck in comparision to M$ Office.
But I think there are some real opportunities to do things that MS will have more trouble pulling off, on account of the licensing.
apt-get is a beautiful thing. What would an enterprise level apt-get look like? What would allow you to install software or updates on 100,000 machines? Would would allow you to roll back a bad update on all of those changes? What would allow you to keep track of different software configurations for different job descriptions or hardware configurations? What would it take for admins to control what users can do with apt-get, so they don't break things?
What would it take for R3dH@t (or someone else) to feed updates into a large corporations office appication framework automatically?
It seems to me that Linux had a lot of groundwork laid for this sort of thing, and that it could be made to happen more easily than a lot of people think.
I think that everyone had a moment with apt-get. You've set up a new system, it doesn't have much on it, and someone sends you a zip file. So you say, "apt-get unzip", and 20 seconds later you can unzip the file.
In a windows environment, that works with zip (although it's definitely harder and slower). But what about Visio? If someone sends you a Visio document, you can't just download Visio.
We, on the other hand, can deploy a desktop that will download our diagram program on the fly when someone clicks on the file icon.
What does that do to admin costs? (Or: what does that do to our jobs?)
I believe that network aware package administration is going to be the thing that wins the enterprise for linux in the end.
I am a little interested as to who everyone is so concerned about companies adopting linux? I think I've heard all the arguments: it's good for the Linux community, it's good for the companies(and the economy), it whacks Bill in the balls . . . whatever. But in my opinion, the beauty of Linux lies in the fact that it is used largely by users who want to use it, not those who have to. And it makes no sense to me why you or I should care whether corp X uses Linux, BSD, Windows, or an old Lisp machine unless it personally affects us(through our jobs or investments).
I am not trying to sound elitist -- I am not saying that "those not enlightened enough to use Linux should not." What I am saying, is that mindshare, both in the terms of users and corporations is rather irrelevant. Besides, if you believe that Linux is perfect for everything(and I don't -- my Windows machine is a great equivalent of my Dreamcast), then those corporations who use Linux will have lower costs and a competitive edge, resulting in economic success and in the displacement of Windows using companies. If this is what's happening now with the adoption of Linux, it makes no sense for us to care about it as anything more than a vindication of the OS, and I think there are very few people at Slashdot who need convincing.
What saddens me is the decline of the hacker ethic and the change of emphasis from "Lets make it better so people use it" to "lets yell louder about how good it is so people use it." And what saddens me even more is that I am wasting time writing this and not coding . . . I guess I am being a little hypocritical. But still, I am convinced there is no reason cheer after a company's adoption of Linux and boo after hearing "Windows." The reason people cheer at football games is that they can't come down to the field and help out. Well, in the case of linux, we can.
In fact, the most important thing about the article is the observation that Linux can be adopted piecemeal while Microsoft tends to want you to change all your software, and often much of your hardware, at once. In an economic downturn, the last thing you want to do is spend a bunch of money for the chance to take a leap of faith and shift your paradigm. Instead, more evolutionary tactics are called for, which just happens to be what Linux or *BSD is good for.
The use of Linux doesn't promise a radical improvement in the way you do business, but it also doesn't have a lot of the risk associated with a paradigm shift. Companies hedging their bets would do well to at least consider not buying Microsoft.
Hi!
Like others, I'm a bit disturbed by the anonymous "case study" that was presented in this article. I'd feel a lot more comfortable knowing who the company is, and some third-party verification that such a change actually took place.
But there's no denying the central argument: Microsoft's licensing fees have dramatically jumped in price, and the terms of their licensing agreements have gotten substantially worse. Yesterday, for instance, I received an email from Microsoft regarding SQL Server licensing. In short, I have till October 1 to upgrade all of my SQL Server 7 licenses to SQL Server 2000--or I lose the right to to "upgrade" price for SQL Server 2000. If I choose to upgrade after October 1 I will have to pay the full retail price.
I'm a big believer in the concept of "don't fix what isn't broken." While the move from SQL Server 7.0 to SQL Server 2000 isn't a big deal (at least for our SS7 applications) I see little reason to spend bucks upgrading server databases that don't need to be changed. But if I need to migrate those down the road, I'll have to pay substantially higher fees--the pay-me-now-or-pay-me-later demand from Microsoft just infuriates me.
But the licensing problem gets worse. Microsoft has dramatically raised their prices and dramatically restricted their terms. Case in point: we're starting to develop a project for a small startup non-profit organization. This is a group that does physical therapy on horseback for handicapped kids--they used to be part of Easter Seals, but Easter Seals has dropped them. (Long, sad story.) They're on their own, and they need to get organized. We want to help them (we're working pro bono publico) and we're recommending a "virtual office" concept. Don't build/buy/rent an office building: instead, let volunteers and paid staff function from home. Manage the office functions in a web application, handle the phones with call forwarding and related telephony stuff, and so forth--it's the 21st century, and there's lots of cool things we can do to hold costs down so program funds can be focused on kids and horses.
Sounds great, right? Except--we run right smack into Microsoft licensing. We're a Microsoft shop--and part of the benefit of doing pro bono projects like this is the hands-on experience we get with new development tools. This would be the perfect project for Microsoft's dot-Net technologies. That is, until we go live--and have to pay $2500 per processor for the server license for the OS, and another $2500 per processor for the SQL Server 2000 license. I'm entirely willing to develop the site for Equi-Librium pro bono--I am also willing to pay Microsoft a reasonable fee for the software we'll use. But five thousand U.S. currency one-dollar simolians is most definitely not a reasonable fee.
So this lets-all-get-experience project may well get done with PHP, PostgreSQL, and FreeBSD. And when we're done we'll have experience with a bunch of non-Microsoft tools, and we may have a different answer for clients who want scaleable applications but can't (or don't want to) pay Microsoft's fees.
Despite the propaganda, Microsoft didn't win the PC wars by skullduggery or deceit. They won by targetting the "influential end user" (their words) and providing lots of information. Software consultants are precisely the kind of people that Microsoft has depended upon, and we've been a very loyal Microsoft shop. We've benefitted enormously from the Microsoft Developer Network program, and we've steered a lot of clients to Microsoft-based solutions (and thus Microsoft operating systems) over the years. But Microsoft's pricing, and licensing, and upgrade policies have us--among the most loyal of Microsoft loyalists--actively questioning our relationship to them.
John Murdoch
Wind Gap Technology Group
Are you crazy, or have you been drinking some tainted Kool-Aid? The entire article is fantastic, as in fantasy. It is vague to say the very least, and offers no evidence to support its credibillity.
Few companies of this size would have any issue with someone knowing that they were using a particular OS, and even fewer would be able to keep such information from leaking out.
As for Microsoft, what the hell could Microsoft possibly do to them?? The fact(assuming) that they made the jump to Linux would mean that Microsoft no longer had any sort of hold over them and they, more than anyone else, could tell Bill and his boys to go to hell. (Express elevator on your right.)
The man is right, without any supporting evidence, this article is sheer FANTASY. But, you can always dream.
Too bad, this one is a plant.
or STFU!!!
This whole thing sounds like a load of BS with no proof. But, I guess that goes right along with the faith based Linux mentality. "I've got no proof but that's what happened. I swear to God."
Isn't that the final irony that the biggest wealthiest and some would say most sophisticated companies will be the biggest consumers of NT-2K-XP while everyone else just gets by with fast good reliable stable safe open source. Fortune 500 firms will be able to afford all the convolutions of Windows code and will smugly assume that they're getting the best bang for the buck. They're not that sensitive to support costs so they'll be fat dumb and happy. Smaller firms, nonprofits and the like will use anything but Windows code.
But the biggest irony of all will be that MS will finally be an enterprise provider not because their stuff is any good but because large companies can afford it.
Only a fool would do 700 installs of an OS, even Linux. When you do large volumes of machines disk imaging makes it a painless process.
In my shop it takes 1 man 1.5 days per 1000 machines, regarless of OS, applications or whatever. He could probably do more but, a GREAT deal of time and effort is spent getting the empty cardboard boxes out to the crusher.
But, don't sweat it. You'll learn as time goes by. At least, I hope you will.
I currently work for a company that is "on the cusp" of a decision similar to what the article described. We just paid out a bunch of money for OfficeXP (for a couple of reasons) and now some of the more Microsoft-inclined persons at my company are quietly screaming for Exchange 2000. And of course, all of the neato features in Exchange 2000 require Active Directory, and Active Directory requires MS DNS, etc. The handwriting is plainly on the wall. I thought I remember reading that Novell is considering giving away (as in gratis) NDS. I checked their website yesterday and downloaded a copy of it for Linux.
Anyone running NDS on Linux? Good / bad?
Anytime you add or change a network of any size, you MUST test; you MUST train. Test networks are a good thing; and need to be used, if you company relys on it's networks, you need to test any change first.
Gee I guess if you don't change your network ever; you will never have to get any training either, right?
"think of it as evolution in action"
Yes, but corporate America needs to read this, with more facts and figures in the Wall Street Journal.
/. nor anandtech.
The folks who make those decisions don't read
Just a dude. Stuck in IT.
Getting on the wrong side of one of the most powerful corporations in the world would have been a *great* business move.
What happened to the real slashdot search engine?
What the fuck is going on around here?
Slashdot sucks really bad lately -- ever since the so called "new slashdot" started a couple of weeks or so back Slashdot has had nothing but trouble with crapflood ASCII art broken features like search and older articles. What is the problem? I can see the need for a day or two to shake out the bugs but this seems like they are running something that still should be considered beta.
The article seems to start out describing how this company converted their Windows network to Linux (but that's implied, not explicit). At the end, however, it seems that they're still using Windows. They didn't buy the upgrades Microsoft was trying to sell them, and I think they're using Linux for some services (see page 6), but it's not clearly stated.
The analysis of the costs of NT and the advantages of Linux seems plausible, but the article is written so that the implied claims are a lot stronger than the details of what actually happened.
Please note: Search is down at the moment while we update our database, so don't bother trying. In the meantime, you may wish to search Slashdot through Google:
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Here is a list of large corporations in Washington state:
http://www.scn.org/earth/wum/4WACORP.htm#What3
Great comment. It seems to me that GNU/Linux has many advantages not normally discussed. Your comment begins to show more of the potential advantages.
Also, Windows has many disdvantages most people don't understand. For example, with Microsoft Windows there is a potential of unrepairable operating system corruption. Microsoft Windows has a file called the registry (SYSTEM.DAT) that often becomes damaged and unrepairable. Below is a message copied without change from a Microsoft error display. As you read it, please keep in mind that registry damage is extremely common.
Registry Repair Results
Windows found an error in your system files and was unable to fix the problem. Try deleting some files to free up disk space on your Windows drive. If that doesn't work then you will need to install Windows to a new directory.
The computer with the bad registry has gigabytes of free disk space. "Installing Windows to a new directory" also means re-installing ALL the applications, and driver updates, and so on. "Installing Windows to a new directory" is equivalent to re-formatting your hard disk and starting over. This is not file system corruption, which is easily fixed. This is unrepairable operating system corruption.
Please also realize that this is only one of MANY such issues.
One reason to use GNU/Linux is that it is of much higher quality. Linux doesn't seem to have the same vulnerabilities as Windows. I don't think there is a Linux message that says, "The corruption is too great to repair. You will have to install everything again."
Why does Microsoft use a single file for most configuration information? Apparently Microsoft uses this as a method of copy protection. A user can copy a program's files, but the program will not operate without the registry entries. Unfortunately for Microsoft Windows users, this single file can become corrupted by a buggy application. If the corruption is great enough, the entire operating system becomes corrupted and unusable and unrepairable.
Bush's education improvements were
Agreed. Yet I bet my post and your's will be modded down in a flash. Sure it is off topic but, they refuse to make it a topic. Lots of people would like to discuss it and even more would like to have some comment or information about it from the editors but, no.
It seems that the faithful would rather mod us "faithless" down and pretend there is no problem. After all, this is an "Open" comunity, right?
Ooh, I bet it was Boeing. That's probably why they kept the name a secret, cause of all the millitary stuff Boeing does.
Yea, I bet it was Boeing.
CmdrTaco is cussing up a storm right now. Can't you hear it?
"Fscking Linux! You Suck! Piece of Sh-t!"
Microsoft haters still have something to worry about. The company operates with a 40% profit margin. Only the mob and the phone company can get away with that kind of margin.
What this means is that Microsoft could substantially reduce all their prices and still make a reasonable margin - one comparable to other companies like AOL whose margin is 1%.
All Microsoft really needs to do as free competition arises is reduce price structure enough to keep the free solutions out because it costs to much to switch. This cost of re-tooling will ring true with CTOs, and they will be quite happy to keep paying what they've been paying.
However, Microsoft wants it all. The new licensing strategy with XP intends to increase company gross by 60% over the next 5 years or so. Or kill it, one of the two. But a monster with 30 BILLION dollars hard cash in the bank is pretty hard to kill. They can come back failure after failure if necessary, and still buy all their competitors.
As to the credibility of the story, I find it entirely believable. One of the large issues is that the story compares fairly incompetent NT engineers with competent linux ones. Even so, server administration requires much less admin time on linux - we estimate it is a 3 to 1 difference.
I was wondering about this....
So.. with Redhat as a possibility, gee, golly, whiz.. we'll.. not change anything and see what happens.
That's a *lot* less enthusiastic than "Format the window boxes! Full steam ahead!" which had been implied.
So they're using RH some.. That's good.. but.. So?
I'm waiting for them to *junk* Windows (I've considered doing the Dark Route, trying to get into management and doing that.
*then* I'm interested. Until then its a story about "Look how crappy Microsoft treats us"...
Addison
I think that what brings MicroSquish down won't be the antitrust litigation, it will be case after case of NT collapsing under its own weight.
I can't wait for the job ads to start saying: "NT sysadmin needed: Must know Linux and Samba."
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
OK, this just tripped by BS detector. Gibson's a media whore whose complaints about XP's raw sockets support are just plain stupid.
dlb, we must have very different support needs. Microsoft has never been able to help my company with Windows operating system problems. They never know the answers, and can't find them. True, we only call with difficult problems.
My experience has been identical to that discussed in the article published by the Boston Mac User's Group (BMUG) about who is better at answering Microsoft product technical support calls: Microsoft Technical Support, or The Psychic Friends Network? You can read it at http://www.bmug.org/news/articles/MSvsPF.html
Bush's education improvements were
On a server? What the @#$#@* is that doing on a server?
And that's not true. While true that bad drivers don't help - plenty of crashes have come from NT itself.Not knowing any percentage, I won't be so asinine as to make one up, but its far far more than .01, in my experience.
Addison
I used NDS years ago - it was awesome. I couldn't believe it when the company I was consulting for decided to replace their fast, easy to manage, reliable network with NT.
It was surreal actually - my assistant and I - that's right, two people - managed a network of about 3000 desktops, three locations, and half a dozen servers (plus these horrible cc-mail "servers" that took up most of our time - really they were client PC's running a cheesy routing application). We did everything from backups to managing users, reseting passwords, etc.
It took a team of consultants (Anderson - bright guys, but brainwashed by MS) about six months to replace the thing with about a dozen massive NT boxes. Their uptime and performance was horrible even though they had more and better hardware, plus it was a nightmare to administer.
Anyway, that's all totally off-topic. NDS really was awesome - a pleasure to administer. Even years later I've yet to see anything that comes close in terms of management and scalability. Unfortunately I don't think it has a future. Novell once had a dominent marketshare in file & print servers and they squandered it through mis-management. Still, if you don't mind the risk that the product will disappear, I'm sure current versions of NDS are even better (I stopped using Novell around the time 4.1 came out).
It is tempting, if the only tool you have is a hammer, to treat everything as if it were a nail. - Abraham Maslow
That's not true. Having been in 1 meeting (too many) with Microsoft licensing, that's a reasonable sounding point. With more than 1 server, they want per-seat checks on EVERY server, to be CERTAIN you aren't cheating.
Secondly, the idea that after 'two or three years' the initial two multiprocessor servers should still be adequate for the 2000 concurrent users is ridiculous.
Boy, do I agree. They should last at least 3-4. At least my (Novell/Linux/Solaris/Irix) ones do. Only ones that don't.. are running NT.
How is this the fault of the OS? Because NT needs a lot *more* horsepower for the same tasks. Lots and lots more. Sure, today, Intel (or AMD) can keep up with them. We used to joke that 2 years after release, Intel would put out a chip that would begin to run Redmond stuff fast enough. Intel and AMD outpaced the software guys, now.
I've had 60 mHz server chug along for years and years with Novell, no complaints, no need to speed up, because CPU wasn't the issue. (Disk IO finally became the greatest problem, 4 years down the road).
Right now, I'm adminning a 3-year old Solaris box, dual 200-somethings... and its not bogged down or bothered in the slightest. Outside this area, a bunch of NT boxes are being swapped in the rack - they're 2 years old and they need upgrades.
(To make an absolutely honest comparision, you need to know the loads and jobs, etc. But I've seen similar, NT having to be upgraded much more often than the competition.)
In the same paragraph, the author states that the failure of redundant servers was causing increased maintenance costs, and once again this was somehow caused by NT. First, the multiple servers weren't installed to be redundant - they were installed to handle separate functions, i.e., mail / file / print. What synchronization is required
You got confused. They seperated out to seperate machines and THEN had failovers for THEM (6 total for the example). Then when they'd failover, keeping them synced was a problem. Seen something like that, trying to do NT clustering. Lots and lots of time spent trying to keep it up, and running, and per spec. (The claim was that it would *Reduce* the hours needed, remember?)
Addison
Yes, but organized religion has been saying that for thousands of years... (why do I feel like I should be posting this on kuro5hin?)
"He may look like an idiot, and talk like an idiot, but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot." - Duck Soup
Last week I became a Tech guy at my school,
they called me 3 days before it started, and asked me to help setup 80 new computers.
While I was putting Windows on a few, I setup Linux on one, and showed it to the tech director.
He was really impressed, and now I get to setup 2 labs of 30 computers apiece, and find out what happens from there.
I don't understand this, dlb. Why not just contract with one of the many Linux support companies, like Red Hat?
Bush's education improvements were
They did fiddle with the NT by appling patches. Through it was exactly every 10 days, just seamed like every ten days. =)
The journey is better then the end.
One of the 'hidden' costs of using MS products is the amount of time & resources spent simply staying current, in case of the feared 'surprise Audit' where MS basically threatens to ruin you if they so much as find one license out of order.
IT's not the cost of the OS for each workstation... it's the recurring costs in upgrading, new licensing schemes, auditing...
Plus rediculous non-recyclable licences such as those for Terminal Services (From what I recall, if you license one workstatoin to use them, you can't later move it to a new one if tha tworkstation breaks)
Network installation? SUre, it can be done.. but nothing like what you can accomplish simply and easily and *logically* with a unix network.
Definitely! Thank you for saying that.
Bush's education improvements were
If an NT kernel based OS freezes, it's most likely due to hardware. I'd go for the videocard since you mention a webbrowser, which does different things than normal programs when it comes to rendering. Get hte latest detonator drivers for win2k from nvidia's website.
I've a dual p3-933 on a VP6 board with win2k. Due to some via problems it hanged sometimes, also nvidia's drivers weren't up to par. But since a month or so I'm running hte latest driverupdates and everything is rocksolid.
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
My first job I was tech support for Win98. Our domain was NT and exchange for email. The admins were new and installed exchange on the pdc. The system used to crash monthly. A few times it wiped out people's email completely.
Second job I was tech support for NT and some sys admin. We were all on NT. The biggest problem we had was properly formatted printing. Never figured it out. Print server used to crash every few weeks, but it was a ppro with 32MB RAM. Ironically it crashed when people sent huge 30MB ppt presentations to it. Exchange stayed up for months at a time. 2000 is great. Very stable. A compaq desktop that we used as a server because of lack of funds stayed up for six months with one or two reboots.
Present job I'm email admin and I have 3 exchange servers. In two months only time we rebooted was when we upgraded AV software and went to Exchange SP4.
The secret with NT is one server, one app. More than one network service one a server is OK, aka WINS, DNS, DHCP. My one experience with PSS was great. The engineer walked me through the solution step by step. NT is not UNIX, but it's OK for LAN's. Exchange is great. After a few power outages we thought our database was screwed for sure, but isinteg later it worked fine.
I was thinking the same thing. What this "story" smells of is a PR job by Red Hat. Notice how Red Hat are saints, and not a whiff of any other Linux vendors (or IBM, or whoever)?
I am VERY surprised to see this type of writeup at Anandtech. I am used to detailed, objective testing, and the occasional factual commentary that at least resembles journalism. This is a piece of fluff that would get laughed off my desk if I were in a similar position as this mysterious company.
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
THe main problem with IIS and IIS based apps is that they leak memory (IIS does that). So if yuo have some webapplications running, with a lot of visitors daily, the memory gets pretty low. (I've experienced similar stuff on apache powered sites, why are webservers so crappy?).
You don't have to reboot however. Just stop / start the W3svc and you're mem is freed. (Or kill the inetserv.exe process when you stopped the service). Can be done in 10 seconds. In fact, in win2k, when you kill inetserv (the IIS main process) it's restarted automatically (hehe, crashproof).
This way I keep up my NT based webservers for months. Once in a while they have to reboot due to security patches, but that's all.
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
(Save the MCSE jokes, plz)
Never underestimate the relief of true separation of Religion and State.
What is that supposed to mean? Is the idea that morality is somehow inate, and any examination of it demonstrates that you are somehow lacking, or is the statement supposed to be ironic or something?
-- It only takes 20 minutes for a liberal to become a conservative thanks to our new outpatient surgical procedure!
The entire arguments rests on the idea that Microsoft's licensing costs are too much for the company to swallow.
The 'facts' presented claim that their 'annual licensing fees would increase from $40,000 to $300,000'.
Excuse me?
I am the VP of IT for a smaller company (only 100 employees), but I worked at a university before this with a user base of 5400, and I used primarily MS products in both places.
When I buy a client machine, for example a Dell workstation with either NT4 or Win2K on it, I get a CAL (client access license) included with the purchase.
This is a one-time cost, not some yearly maintenance deal.
So, my 'annual license fees' are, damn, $0. Imagine that.
A lot of people in this dicussion also preach on about how much more it costs to put together something like a clustered SQL box..."it's so hard to setup a MS clustered server, wah wah wah..."
Guess what? I have clustered SQL 2000 running on Win2K Advanced server, and it took me, oh, 2 hours to set it up? That was about 45 minutes for OS, 20 minutes for SQL, and remaining time to apply patches and tweak it out a little.
The article also makes untrue statements about their supposed problems with an upgrade to Active Directory, that all their clients would have to be upgraded because win9x isn't compatible with AD.
What?
I have 50 win9x machines on my Win2K/AD enabled network here and they're fine.
I think the fact is that the people writing the article and most of the zealots on this board have no idea what the hell they're talking about.
I've also seen a great tendency for you idiots to spout on about all these workarounds to make crappy linux sotware work 'acceptably' and then you flame MS when they have to patch their software or offer a workaround to a bug.
This article is so much FUD from the Linux camp it is unbeleivable, what with all the talk of servers being down every week, pure horsesh!t.
My average server is down for maybe five minutes every 6 months or so, mainly to schedule patches.
I have a set of 5 production Win2K boxes that have been up since Nov 11th, 2000 with NO website downtime. Two of them are IIS machines (wlbs) and 2 are SQL 2K machines (clustered). Yes, I had to shut the web service down on each web server once to install a series of patches, but due to MS software (load balancing service), the website was never unavailable, the whole purpose behind clustering technologies.
I have never have those machines blue screen, randomly reboot, or any of that other silly nonsense I see people ranting on this board about.
Back to the article, they also gloss over the whole VMWare business.
anyone looked at how expensive VMWare is?
It costs more than MS products.
Linux is cheaper, my a$$.
I know you're all totally pro-linux, and anti-microsoft, and in a lot of ways I actually support you, but a major theme of linux support is based on exaggerated claims of product instability of MS os's, and of exaggerated costs for licensing their products.
People need to get their facts straight when they print articles like this, because pretty soon you're all going to sound like Microsoft pr flacks when you lambast the other side.
Why are you people so skeptical?
I've noticed that a lot of posters to this thread seem to have the opinion that article is a fairy tale. Anandtech seems to me to have a reputation for impartiality, their hardware reveiws are quite thourough and unbiased as far as I can see.
What you are seeing is the classic strategy of Microsoft shills and lackeys on slashdot using standard astroturfing techniques to slant the apparent tone of the conversation in a manner which is conducive to their PR goals. This has been followed by a few more reasonable people who have either been taken in by the "reasonable" tone of skepticism expressed (many astroturfing efforts have been laughed out of here and elsewhere because of the ludricous stances they have taken, however, Microsoft shills and PR-consultants have grown more subtle and clever over time, and have refined their astroturfing techniques quite a bit), or are falling prey to the misguided desire to appear more thoughtful by expressing skepticism, whether or not it is at all well founded.
As someone who has helped numerous companies, including my current employer, switch wholesale to GNU/Linux on both the desktop and server side I can say that the story rings very true. It should also be pointed out that there are numerous, confirmed instances of Microsoft threatening their customers with inflated licensing fees, expensive license audits, etc. in retaliation for deploying a competitor's product in-house. This sort of behavior was particularly common during the early Internet Explorer vs. Netscape struggle, and is playing no small part in the ongoing DOJ v Microsoft anti-trust trial. I suspect only the most ardent Microsoft apologist or supporter would have any shred of doubt as to the likelihood that such tactics will almost certainly be turned against firms trying to make the transition from Windows to GNU/Linux, and until a company is fully weaned from Microsoft (and these transitions can take months or even years, depending on the complexity and entrenchment of the existing legacy systems) they are vulnerable to this sort of retaliation.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
would be Home Depot.
hey.
i have a friend who works for an ibm company called tivoli. they have alot of products but one of the cool things they do is push applications to workstations. so if you have 7k workstations and a couple servers. you install the client on the workstations and your server can push software to them. this is expensive but possible in windows.
btw tivoli also works under linux. i've never used it but my friend says they do alot of their development under linux.
-- john
I work for a large consulting firm, and I think the real paradigm shift will occur when large third-party consulting firms start considering Linux as a viable option.
Unfortunately, in the business world where the most "technical" users wouldn't know C from Perl and have never heard of "The Registry", changes like this are all but impossible. At this time, I still believe Linux is the realm of geeks and engineers.... but never give up the fight!!
In case you haven't looked through all the comments yet, this is a cut-and-paste of someone else's comment that was posted earlier than this one. Scroll down.
But you can't undercut 0 or you'll get a divide by 0 error (or Overflow in Visual Basic!?! - how retarded is that???).
Speaking purely of licensing, MS can never undercut free apps. That's one reason why they've been looking to other revenue sources.
Developers: We can use your help.
Well put, and largely accurate.
Why does a 100 person firm need a VP of IT?
That would be a fairy tale. Look at this statement on page six:
Linux was not the right tool for every job, but it certainly had proved its metal as a cost effective alternative and helped give them some breathing room as they worked to bring soaring IT costs under control and reduce TCO (Total Cost of Ownership).
Linux was only used were it had proven to be a viable solution.
Just in case nobody has posted this yet, the author of the article at Anandtech explains that there's an NDA in force. It'll be eighteen months before he can reveal the name of the company. You'll have to search for "Paul Sullivan" to see his comment.
Failure is its own reward.
Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
Pushing your patches using a login script will cause huge security holes, unless all of your users run as a local root user, which is a really stupid idea....
The OS is called Linux. If the FSF had a problem with their SW being included in other packages, they would have put it in the GPL rather than Dick Stallman just trying to rename it.
So if you every put together an system of some sort rember it "has" to be called GNU/MySystem.
Thank you, Linus. You did a great job !
He has also posted a follow up reply on the message board over there.
i d= 44&threadid=549271
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?cat
Worth A Read
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid= 44&threadid=549271
24K accounts on Exchange.
Absolutely!
Have seen it done with more. But not on one box, doh, of course. However, I wasn't talking about Exchange, I'm using IMail and, yes, I have 24,000 POP3/IMAP account on a single server.
Exchange can't handle it? Yea right. Please. We've got an E2K box in our data center where we're migrating all of those users to, about 1000 per 2 weeks. So far we have 8400 on 3 boxes, one HTTP/POP3 front end and two back end. So far no problems at all. I suspect you are talking about Exchange 5.5 - 2000 didn't even hardly blip at 4K.
The article is fake, anandtech does this a lot.
This article was all fine and good until you called Steve Gibson a "security expert".
I was replying to his comment that he thinks that 1 pentium class server could replace a 6 server NT cluster
But what if your total workload is small enough to be handled by a single box? If, as the article states, such functions as mail, print, and file serving need to be handled by separate dedicated machines for reasons of stability, not performance, then that puts a lower bound on the number of servers you need to have ([#server machines] >= [# server applications] -- and presumably database and web serving would be boxes #4 and #5), no matter how small the total workload actually is.
That would seem to significantly raise the entry-level price point for small shops whose total workload would otherwise be nowhere near the capacity of even a single box.
David Gould
main(i){putchar(340056100>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i<6)<< 6)&&main(++i);}
Are you a websurfer/email reader/office program user?
If so, Linux is right there, right now, and you don't even have to hunt down anything. If you start with Mandrake (buy the powerpack edition just for fun) you will be ready to rock right after the install is done. No joke.
Are you a gamer?
If so, you are generally locked out of the latest 3D gorefests, unless you dual-boot. However, this doesn't mean you have no games- Loki has many decent and recent offerings, and there are many highly appealing games that just aren't in the EB shelves. The real classics are certainly available for Linux, as well- they're either remade from scratch (i.e. freeciv) or ported (loki's work.)
Note also that many gaming companies are considering Linux ports, often at the behest of their own developers.
Are you a graphic designer?
High end graphics are a niche, and to write them for Linux means that the authors must target a niche of a niche. This having been said, there are solutions.
When speaking of Linux graphics, you can't get away without mentioning the GIMP. Some people will swear is as good as Photoshop, and for most people (i.e. 99% of the folks that would warez it!) it really is. However, if you do prepress work, you will run into limitations very quickly (not the least of which is the total lack of CMYK/process color support!) The GIMP is designed for screen-target, RGB photo editing and web graphics design. You can try the GIMP out on windows, too, if you want.
Corel makes a set of Linux graphics tools, matching their Windows lineup. I haven't had the cash to get the whole enchilada yet, but I have used the freely available Photo-Paint they offer. I found it to be rather sluggish, but workable, which is why I am mulling the purchase of the whole suite (at $300 last I checked.)
I hear there is another company working on an Illustrator/Quark combo clone for Linux (based on something for Irix, IIRC.) We shall see.
3D graphics are advancing quite nicely on Linux, with major 3D artists already beginning to move to Linux due to hardware cost issues. If you want to just fiddle around in 3D, Blender can be a nice tool. It's free, but very difficult to figure out at first.
Overall, graphics is one arena to watch closely under Linux. The expert users that often populate the graphics crowd are really looking hard at Linux for the future.
To conclude, Linux is at the point where the normal user can comfortable enjoy it, and more specialized users are moving in.
If you aren't sure, just remember that you can always dualboot and learn while retaining your Windows capabilities as you normally would.
What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey
If you have questions read what he has to say Anandtech forum
"think of it as evolution in action"
Agreed. The entire problem that the company in the article faced was NOT caused by their software selection or their NOS. It was caused because they did not employ an internal DIT-styled position or internal technical consultant. They have nobody in that company to explain the situation from a 3rd-person perspective. Its just a bunch of execs listening to MS FUD on one side and RedHat FUD on the other side.
Won't go with AD because the PDC/BDC model wasn't effective? Yah, that makes a ton of since... MS isn't actually trying to IMPROVE their scalability. They just want you to buy into a new technology. Bah, those stingy execs need to get a clue and hire some more knowledgable (and costly) IT people. The tiny increase in salary will get them a tremendous boost in productivity and save them a ton of money in the long run.
Eventually, RedHat will screw them over and they'll move on to another outsourced consulting company.
Protector of Capitalist views,
Meorah
Although I will agree with you that 2000 to XP is mostly fluff, you're entirely off-base with your assumption of NT 4.0 to 2000/XP. Security is provided if you'll configure it on all 3 platforms, and Active Directory is a paradigm shift that improves functionality and scalability in 2000/XP. In short, you're making a large mistake by staying with NT 4.0 when 2000 has so much more to offer. XP and .NET will be bad news for licensing... you should get in on 2000 while there's still time. But hey, you've already made up your mind what you're going to do. Have fun with linux.
Protector of Capitalist views,
Meorah
Actually, you're in luck. IANANTG (I am not an NT guru), but the NT 4 Resource Kit has the Switch User (SU) utility. It does what you'd expect --- you run it off the command line, and you can either have it give you an administrator-privilege window, or you can specify an app (SU user program_name domain_name).
Heh, I got this out of and old copy of Internet Security Advisor Magazine I picked up at CA World last year here in New Orleans (no, I didn't pay for the conference, I um, "visited" the show).
Need a Linux consultant in New Orleans?
Wouldn't comparing an improved version of NT to the original be comparing NT to its bugfix?
Like:
"The 95 Chevy cavalier could't be undependable
because my 2000 cavalier's almost flawless
with 50,000 miles"
Hmmmmmmm....
Maybe they were slashdotted in succession? :-)
What about that group in Australia that recycles PC's for the poor. M$ came in and demanded payment for second hand operating systems!
Did you even read that article?
It amazes me just how obvious it is that some of you are entrenched in your opinions to such a degree, you see in the article only what you really WANT and EXPECT to see.
I have seen posts that are outright distortions of the actual content of the article. I have seen Linux people praising it and MS people trashing it.
The whole point of the article is to show you that you can supplement your existing NT infrastructure with Linux and not miss a beat. NT is still there and it works fine, Linux is now there and it works fine. Why get so worked up???
Here is a quote from the author on the Anand message boards in response to some requests. GIVE IT A READ:
_____________________________________________
Iwas not aware that the article had been mentioned on Slashdot, until I started getting a flood of bi-polar emails, some scathing, some praising. I feel like an independent politician in the middle of a group of Conservative Republicans and Liberal Democrats. Holy Moly!
First, I like and use MS products every day. I feel that Windows 2k is a very, very good effort on the part of MS - one of their best. I do not like some of their corporate practices, but that certainly does not mean I don't like and appreciate their software.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the primary point of the article is to show you that there are indeed options available to corporate infrastructure teams. NT 4 is still running - they did not diminish its presence and in fact, NT 4 clients are still being added. They have sought to 'pause' the growing implementation if you will, and take a deep breath and evaluate their options in the face of a dramatic financial downturn in the marketplace. Linux has provided them with ONE supplemental option. They have Sun stations, they have Linux stations but no longer Netware. The point in part is that corporations CAN and DO have options. They do not need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. They can instead say "Hey, this may be a good option to try. Since the cost of entry is low, let's keep an open mind and see if it can help us augment our infrastructure.
Further, many businesses have moved to a split server system, with one for Email/Internet, one for Printing and one for File Serving. It is not an uncommon thing at all, and actually is prudent, as you limit your liability in the event of a crash to 33% of the effective functionality. Believe it or not, postscript printing of complex documents can bring an NT 4 server to its knees when you have 38 printers kicking out 200 page documents and downloading fonts at the same time. Couple this with developers testing multimedia applications consisting of complex Macromedia Authorware applications, and you can probably understand why you might need to break things up a little and implement a redundant configuration. NT 4 is not as stable as 2k, but there are still many companies that have not made the move yet, perhaps for cost, or perhaps out of a desire to research Active Directory before they implement such a large scale change.
I would hope that those in the business for a number of years would remember the lessons of the past with IBM, Sun and Netware. Microsoft is in a position that IBM and Netware used to be in, and so far, they seem to be doing a pretty good job. But it is a fact that costs are going up. Training, licensing and other costs are increasing quickly. Given the state of the economy and the drain on stock prices, it seems again prudent to assess your situation and look for possible options to help diversify and expand your infrastructure in an effort to provide some measure of cost to benefit comparision.
In summary, I appreciate most of the comments and am grateful that some have taken the time to read the entire article. It can be surprising at how hostile pro MS or pro Linux advocates can be. For the record, I like them both and use them both. They can actually work together quite well. There is no reason NOT to consider Linux as a corporate server solution if you are looking for alternatives. At the same time, there is no reason to completely trash MS in the process.
As with many things in life, the truth often lies in the grey areas, and being inclusive instead of exclusive is for many a more practical move.
Thank you for your comments and for taking the time to read the article.
Paul Sullivan
_______________________________________
There ya go.
Hi!
I appreciate your advice--but I must disagree. The differences between SQL Server 6.5 and SQL Server 7.0 are substantial--and very significant. There are significant performance and feature improvements in SQL Server 7.0 (and 2000) that make a very compelling case for upgrading 6.5 installations to 7.0.
Don't let the version numbers mislead you--SQL Server 6.5 is the last version of the source code developed by Sybase and jointly marketed with Microsoft. When Microsoft and Sybase "divorced" back in the '90s MS set about creating a completely new database product. Because of contractual limitations they continued evolutionary development of SQL Server 6.0 and 6.5--while building the new product (7.0) and deploying it internally within Microsoft.
SQL Server 7.0 is really a 1.0 product. It is a complete, from-the-ground-up rewrite of SQL Server. And while a lot of 1.0 Microsoft products are pretty dreadful (well, okay, practically all 1.0 Microsoft products are dreadful), SQL Server 7.0 positively rocks.
For starters, SQL Server does not require a fixed disk partition anymore--so resizing your database is no big deal. (We typically configure them to auto-grow, so we don't have to spend a lot of time monitoring available space.) The query optimization is dramatically enhanced. In 6.5 and earlier (and most competitive databases) the query optimizer quits when you add a fourth table to an INNER JOIN. In 7.0 and higher the query optimizer is substantially more robust--you can create JOINs with dozens of tables, review the execution plan, provide optimizer hints (hint: don't--the optimizer is very smart), and really get a handle on exactly what's going on. For data warehouse applications the query optimizer and query performance in general--alone--make upgrading from 6.5 a very good idea.
Another compelling feature is scalability: 7.0 handles very large tables, including full-text indexing, without breathing hard. We do a lot of performance testing on our projects--we have found performance testing with SQL Server 7.0 to be difficult because the database generally handles requests faster than we can create them. It takes serious work to maintain multiple SQL Server 7.0 connections from a single test machine--and if we're using a pool manager (such as COM+) we can run test scripts from more than a dozen machines (simulating hundreds of users) and still share a single connection.
In short, performance of SQL Server 7.0 is extremely good.
SQL Server 2000 is also good stuff--in particular, I really like the new User-Defined Functions (a feature Oracle has had for years). But for solutions that have already been written for SQL Server 7.0 (that is, where we aren't going to do any new work, so UDFs aren't an issue) there's no compelling case to make the move.
Except Microsoft holding the "Software Assurance" gun to my head....
Windows XP is a lot better than folks think.
The Pro version has dual monitor support, a veritas backup program and a whole lot more.
Media Player 8 is a very good program, and is faster than you think too.
Yes, you can uninstall IE6 no problem - just on the add-remove area.
In fact, the whole operating system is faster and better than people think.
Microsoft is being quiet for a reason - to get people to expect the worst and be surprised at how awesome it really is.
Microsoft will have the last laugh.
The warning is actually on MS's web page.. (Somewhere, not sure where, but I heard it 2nd hand...)
Also, EZ-CD creator 5 will work with Win2000/XP correctly, if you do NOT install anything except just the EZ-CD Creator 5 application. The other apps it comes with, is what is screwing up the file system. I forget which one, but I think its take two... And the patch doesn't work... I haven't tried it on 2000 this way, but at work, it works fine with XP this way...
As a side note, you can hardly get mad at MS for letting Roxio write POS drivers. I mean, I'm sure more people would get pissed at MS, if they started telling companies who can and can't write software...