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More Links And Reports On Terrorist Attacks
Two major news updates: the plane downed near Pittsburgh is reported not to have been shot down. A fifth plane which had been feared hijacked, this one a Korean Air jetliner, was forced down by Canadian Air Force planes over the Yukon. However, this plane is reported not to have been hijacked -- instead, its emergency beacon was triggered by a low-fuel indicator.
Importantly -- remember, blood is in demand. The Red Cross' site is mobbed, but here's the blood donation information on a the cached page at google.
More details of the attack and its aftermath: a report at at gnome.org, and a photo at indymedia.org. pajama links to NYC Police scanner traffic (winamp) streamed online, and an anonymous reader also points to another scanner feed.
Shadowwalker Delaforge writes "Hey guys: I'm submitting my web site to yours to get the word out. I've been compiling web sites, and info on the U.S. Attack. These sites are ones that work, and arent' swamped out of existence. I'm also adding new data about where people can donate money, blood, and other things dealing with this.
soccerdad writes "Due to the activities of today, the internet/networking experts at my firm have been asked by some of our clients to be on standby in case anything untoward occurs. They've been monitoring backbone activity, etc., in a "just in case" mode. They've described the activity they're seeing as somewhat strange. The backbone is, according to them, at about 80% utilization -- they've never seen it above 40% before. However, the main portal sites such as Yahoo aren't having substantively higher than normal traffic. They're working on doing some traffic analysis but haven't completed that effort yet."
A small piece of that bandwidth may be saved if you go to the link Kalak suggests: "William Shunn is collecting short notes from people in the terrorist affected areas so you can see who is OK." Look here (or post your name here if you're in an affected city) before tying up a phone connection. Alex Fabrikant submitted another personal information site at Berkeley
Thapthim writes "http://cbc.ca/ has all sorts of information, even in our own city buildings are being shutdown, all air traffic has been suspended. However Canadian Airports are taking in international flights heading into US so the air ports there are free for emergencies."
sn0wcrsh wrote to say that a "short blurb on Channel 7 Boston that the CTO of Akamai was on the fateful plane that hit the trade center" confirms the earlier reports that he was on board.
And ectrix writes: "The CFO of my company, Netegrity was on United Airlines Flight 175, which has been confirmed to us by United Airlines to have hit tower two of the WTC.
WAVY NBC - Norfolk, VA (among other local TV stations I'm sure) is reporting on the air the Threatcon levels at the area Naval, Air Force, and Army bases. They are all at Threatcon Delta. Their website currently only lists their status as of the beginning of the attacks, which was Threatcon Charlie. Norfolk, VA is the home port for the US Atlantic Fleet. Local TV stations also are showing armed (M16s, shotguns) guards patrolling the base grounds and perimeters."
There are updated photos and videos here, and CarbonFusion wrote with another good link to photos and videos.. eddiem writes: "http://www.flightexplorer.com/ will soon let you view the flight path of the planes." Explanations of airport security at How Stuff Works and Cryptome are an interesting read under the circumstances as well.
Bard, Andrew wrote with some updates as well:
"Just to let you know:
- I heard a woman who was on the 92nd floor of the first WTC building when the plane hit it. She was able to escape and so was everyone "in her company" so it is assumed that virtually everyone from the 92nd floor down was evacuated successfully - an estimated 20,000 people of the 25,000 in the building.
- the plane that went down in PA had a woman onboard who locked herself in the bathroom with her cellular phone - she was telling authorities about the hijacking when the plane crashed and killed her - that is the only way the authorities knew for sure what plane went down in PA so quickly, she gave her flight number
- the Mexican border is completely closed and the Canadian border is still open - all International flights have been redirected to Northern Canada
- the planes from Boston were presumably chosen because they were going on long flights (to LA) which would make them larger than average airliners with full tanks of gas
- when the first WTC building crashed (which was the 2nd one to be hit), 125 firemen were down below fighting the fire on the first building to be hit... none of them have been heard from yet - 10,000 emergency personnel in NYC responded to the first WTC getting hit... it is unknown how many of those were crushed in the two collapsed buildings."
Canadian border has been since sealed.
Derek Greene
http://www.spack.nu/wtc/wtcboom.jpg
Here is a link on Yahoo! that is just their most recent pictures. I saw up to about page 5 or 6 that were just of this.
"Time is long and life is short, so begin to live while you still can." -EV
http://www.unspeakable.org/wtc
Please email me all your pics and movies, as I will put them online also.
email them to crimson@unspeakable.org
oogly boogly!
Wish I could be more informative, but check the tv - building 7 (part of the WTC complex) collapsed, but it was expected and officials were waiting for about a half hour, from what I heard. Apparently, injuries from this collapse are minimal.
I really hate signatures, but go to my website.
I would like to (try) to be the first to thank the Slashteam, the editors, and all Slashdotters themselves for their response to this. I woke up and just happened to check Slashdot before I left for work. I arrived an hour late thanks to CNN and my own astonishment. Later through the day, while news sites went up and down, Slashdot's commentary provided ample links to news sources for those of us trapped in cubicles.
Huzzah to you!
I'm in Canada, and despite our differences with our friends to the south, this incident is just horrific. Seeing the towers collapse was the most stunning and sickening sight I've ever seen.
Condolences and regards to all those in New York, and around America.
One question. Where was that 4th plane headed? Looked like the Pentagon from the ATC displays CNN showed...
I'm disappointed that it is so easy to hijack planes. I think airplane crew should be armed and the cockpit better protected. Airplanes are vulnerable targets with a large payoff for terrorists, and should be protected accordingly.
Killing innocent civilians serves no good purpose. I just hope that principle is remembered even in anger and during calls for revenge. If you can positively identify and kill those responsible, fine, but if you are prepared to see the deaths of innocent civilians in the pursuit of revenge, then you have no moral advantage over the terrorists.
http://rareformnewmedia.com/
I am amazed at how well the internet has helped disseminate information. I am surprised by the lack of rumors and the amazing compilation pages of information.
What was really heartening was this:
http://www.worldtradecenter.com
Usually it's some jerk looking to make money. This person looks to be really trying to help.
KMBZ radio reports Kansas City, MO has gas at $5/gallon, and another of $4/gallon in Louisville, KY.
That would imply that there is an expectation of serious middle eastern turmoil.
Oh, and thanks for bumping that ass Katz. Maybe next time you'll have the sense to just remove that crap. Only a total fool would try to label this event "Techno-Armageddon".
My God, what happened?
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
VOTE!
Please remember that in many parts of the US today is an ELECTION DAY.
Bruce Davis
UNIX Systems Administrator
Lernout & Hauspie Speech Products
Burlington, MA USA
"I'm The Bounty Bear. I will find him anywhere. I'm searching."
Poliglut we've got a running diary with links of the whole day.
I find it highly ironic that, yet again, everyone instantly jumps to the conclusion that it was Arabs who are behind these tragedies. Does anyone else remember Oklahoma City, and the rush to judgement there, when in the end it was a white hick with a gap tooth. Let's face it, there's a whole lot of people out there that hate the US, and for good reason (I was going to put a list here, but it's really just about everyone except Israel, Japan, Western Europe, and Canada). We've been exploiting these places economically for decades now, and if you ask me, it's about time they stood up for themselves. And, before you say "economic domination does not merit this kind of response" - let me pose this question - what other way is there to respond when you are facing an opponent who has the money, owns the world legal system (has the money), and owns large numbers of world politicians (has the money)? In any event, let's hope that the American government can set an example in not responding with force until it is COMPLETELY positive who it is retaliating against, and let's hope as well that civilian casualties that come from the retaliation are minimal. Furthermore let's hope American citizens wake up to what their government and corporations are doing around the world in time to prevent more of these attacks, before they happen, because that is the only way to eliminate the problem.
My office building is right behind Lester B. Pearson Airport in Toronto, Ontario, Canada and it's usually very busy with airplane traffic. It's eerie now that there is none. The shock can be felt around the world. Deepest sympathies from Canada.
I love the smell of Karma in the morning
/. is international, so you might wanna check it out:
Tagesschau
Welt
Rheinische Post
Spiegel Online
Stern
All of these sites have good picture coverage for those who do not speak German. And they are way faster than all US sites at the moment!
I think the current poll is inappropriate.
I think that it would be cool if slashdot would use the poll to see what people, in general, are feeling about todays events.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
"They've described the activity they're seeing as somewhat strange. The backbone is, according to them, at about 80% utilization -- they've never seen it above 40% before. However, the main portal sites such as Yahoo aren't having substantively higher than normal traffic. They're working on doing some traffic analysis but haven't completed that effort yet"
The data at Internet Health Report would lead me to believe that, other than a higher-than-usual web browsing traffic to specific sites, it's business as usual for the majority of the internet.
I'd like to see any contrary information, though.
This sig is xenon coated, and will glow red when in the presence of aliens
I was flipping through the latest Wired magazine while watching the news reports. I was looking through the record reviews and saw THIS. An album cover of the WTC exploding. I was floored.
ian @ polpo . org
The 5th plane was a Japan Air plane that was forced down by the Canadian Airforce. it was not hijacked, its emergancy beacon was turned on by a low fuel condition
I used to have a cool sig, back when I cared
I copied this from here.
Only a few short weeks ago I walked a couple of times across the Brooklyn and Manhattan bridges, to get some fresh air. I took a bunch of pictures of the evening New York City skyline. Amongst them were a couple of shot of the WTC towers. Little did I know that this would be the last time I'd see them.
Please see my short tribute to the World Trace Center towers:
/ farewelltowtc/index.html.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/5799
God have mercy on these souls.
Stratfor
Concise, more comprehensive than anything else I've seen, and by far the best analysis.
Usually, they're a leading foreign policy website, focusing on 'intelligence' rather than 'news'.
Remember, the power of terrorists is terror -- don't let them win.
There are no large airports in Northern Canada! The big ones, where most if not all of the flights are heading, are Vancouver, Toronto, and Goose Bay. These are the ones that can handle the traffic. Please see a post above from Vancouver, here in Toronto it's pretty nuts.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
This is probably some of the best work I've seen from the Slashdot editors. They've been putting up reliable information faster than some of the big sites. They're dedication in this case is appreciated.
First off - my previous post had 2 errors, 'Debt of Honour' was Clancey's book, and yes, GWB was not in power last year, my apologies in writing at too fevered a pitch.
h tm l
e -c p.html
Now, my report regarding the escorted landing of two 747's at Whitehorse International Airport:
11:42am A Korean Airlines cargo 747-400 landed using every inch of available runway
11:50am We spotted another inbound jet
11:52am A Korea Airlines passenger 747 landed coming down just 15 feet above the fence....an awesome and scary sight from only 100 feet away. 3 F-18's (hard to say, they were pretty high up) escorted them in and continued to circle Whitehorse's airspace.
Luckily Whitehorse's runway had just been extended to facilitate 747's last year.
Emergency vehicles kept their distance from both planes, the passenger plane having taxied back to the north end of the runway, as far away from the terminal as possible.
A gray truck approached the passenger plane, dispersing ground personnel to chalk the wheels, then fell in behind an officer wielding a long barreled weapon and backed up behind the officer to the truck and departed the scene
A ramp was brought to the aircraft but no one left for about 20 minutes (at 12:36pm) when a single male came down and walked towards the police vehicles (we could hear the occasional word from a police loudspeaker) he made it about half way when he was obviously ordered to lift his shirt up, turn around, lift his pant legs, then he removed the shirt completely, holding it over his head while continuing to walk towards the vehicles. People with binoculars were able to see several FBI jackets amongst the police. There was a lear jet nearby which was probably used to get the FBI here from Alaska (since as far as I know we don't have any resident FBI in Yukon).
At 12:43pm we were ordered away from the area by the RCMP. Apparently for 'our own safety' - we were on crown land, outside the airport's perimeter fence.
There is the possibility that we may be receiving up to 10 planes, but I have no idea where they could park them.
Further information available at:
http://www.canoe.ca/MoneyNews/sept11_yukon-dow.
http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSWorldTrade0109/11_whit
http://cbc.ca/
Further:
The entire article is copied below.
U.S. pondering its response
'No options taken off the table' -- senior U.S. official
By Michael Moran
MSNBC
Sept. 11 -- Reeling from the most devastating day of terrorist attacks in history, President George W. Bush and his advisors struggled on Tuesday to devise a response that would convey the depth of the outrage felt across the United States without appearing to lash out blindly.
THE SCALE of the attacks and the loss of life -- mostly in New York City's World Trade Center, but also in Pittsburgh and Washington -- ensured that "no option has been taken off the table," senior U.S. officials said. Asked if that included nuclear weapons, one senior official said: "I said no option is out of the question. That's precisely what I mean."
The nature and precision of the attacks, along with their unknown origin, left the United States with no useful precedents or contingency plans to fall back on. Procedurally, the attacks prompted officials to institute safeguards consistent with a state of war: Airspace over major American cities was cleared of commercial traffic and replaced by military interceptors; large, obvious targets like the White House, Capitol building, the Disney theme parks in Florida and California and the Sears Tower in Chicago, were evacuated. Most tellingly, the president, vice president, congressional leaders and other key government officials were spirited to secure, undisclosed locations -- an indication that the attacks achieved an astounding degree of surprise.
Indeed, many officials echoed the words of the U.S. Atlantic Fleet's commander, Navy Adm. Robert J. Natter: "We have been attacked like we haven't been attacked since Pearl Harbor." He then dispatched aircraft carriers to the waters off New York and Washington -- an unprecedented step -- to provide air cover.
HIGH ALERT
The United States military and its diplomatic organs quickly ordered steps consistent with imminent action.
President Bush placed American military commands around the world, including North American Air Defense Command, or NORAD, on their highest level of alert. Air Force One, carrying Bush, landed briefly at Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska, the home of Strategic Air Command, the nation's nuclear war fighting command, as well as the so-called "doomsday plane," a flying command post meant for use in case of a nuclear attack on America.
Ambassadors of the world's most powerful military alliance, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, scheduled an emergency meeting for 5 p.m. ET to discuss the crisis at NATO headquarters in Brussels, Belgium.
While no public accusations of blame were made by the U.S. government, senior officials, along with experts on terrorism, were unanimous in their belief that the attacks were the work of Osama bin Laden, the Saudi exile who leads the shadowy Al-Qaeda terrorist organization. "No one else but Bin Laden has the capability to do this is Bin Laden," one senior intelligence official said. "No one."
Bin Laden is living in Afghanistan as a guest of the Islamic regime there, the Taliban. The United States already has warned the Taliban that any act of terrorism on American soil by bin Laden or his followers would be regarded as an act of war.
That said, exactly how to hit out at bin Laden has been a continuing problem for the United States. U.S. intelligence agencies once tracked his movements within Afghanistan fairly reliably by eavesdropping on cell phone communications. Bin Laden has long since stopped using cell phones and is now said to sleep in a different safe house each night. Three years ago, after the dual bombings at American embassies in Kenya and Mozambique were tied to Al-Qaeda, the United States launched Tomahawk cruise missiles at suspected bin Laden training camps in Afghanistan and a plant in Sudan the CIA suspected of ties with him. Neither air strike did much to dissuade him. The U.S. suspects bin Laden's hand behind the April 2000 attack on the USS destroyer Cole in Yemen.
MILITARY OPTIONS
As President Bush weighs options, the difficulty of pinpointing bin Laden -- if in fact the United States decides he is responsible -- presents a dilemma. Among the options under active consideration:
Major retaliatory airstrikes: The United States could strike at Afghanistan with missile strikes -- possibly even tactical nuclear weapons -- to demonstrate its anger and the grave consequences of such an attack on U.S. soil.
Military invasion: The president could declare war on Afghanistan and order a buildup of forces similar to that which preceded the Gulf War in 1990. Such a move, however, would require the acquiescence of a neighboring state -- either Pakistan or one of the former Soviet Central Asian nations.
Manhunt: The Army's Delta Force or other assets could be inserted into Afghanistan to hunt down Bin Laden.
Proxy action: The United States could exert extreme diplomatic pressure on Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, two states that have supported the Afghan Taliban in the past, to bring Bin Laden to justice.
'NO EASY ANSWERS'
Each and every one of these options has drawbacks, however, and those potential pitfalls will animate the debates of the coming days within the U.S. national security establishment. For instance, the use of nuclear weapons, in any form, risks alienating a world that is almost united in its revulsion at such attacks -- and whose help will be necessary in preventing future such attacks.
"The worst thing we can do is to completely lose our cool and overreact," said Sean Anderson, domestic terrorism expert at Idaho State University who studied the Oklahoma City bombing and the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993.
"The best thing we can do is carry on, not to depart from our ordinary constitutional legal processes
Indeed, it is quite possible the United States will refrain from any immediate action until investigators have time to more thoroughly make the case against whoever directed the attack.
"There are not a lot of easy answers," former Secretary of State James Baker told NBC News. "The president, I think, did the right thing when he said 'we're under terrorist attack and we're going to hunt down those responsible.' "
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
I'm not american. I'm british. I work 100 yards from the London Stock Exchange, which was evacuated - so were we, by our MD. I was scared shitless. I can't imagine how you're feeling in the US. This has proved to the entire world that nowhere is safe from terrorism.
My suggestion? I assume that there will be a fund set up to help those injured in these attacks, and their families. It may have been set up already. My suggestion - donate your tax rebates to this fund. I received a tax rebate from the UK government a couple of weeks ago - I intend to donate mine. It's the least I can do.
This morning when I came into work it was 1.77. It is now (as of 4:45 CDT) 1.99 and the gas station next to the building where I work has cars out on the street waiting to pull in. It will be interesting to see where this ends up.
Kirby
http://www.WinWithRealEstate.com/
Let it out slowly...
Now ask yourself:
What can I do to help?
What can I do to make sure nothing like this happens to ANYONE again?
What must I NOT do because it will just make things worse?
Take another deep breath...
Let it out slowly...
Now, go do what you know is right.
Stonewolf
From the beginning we've heard essentially that these attacks were "unprovoked acts of terrorism" I seriously suggest everyone consider that carefully. From my perspective the two biggest suspects are American Militia groups and Islamic Fundamentalists, possibly Palestinian ones. Either way, would an attack by them upon the US be "unprovoked?" I seem to remember several incidents where the US Gov't has trampled the constitution in their dealings with militia groups. The reactionary FBI raids that have left dozens dead, most of whom weren't resisting (Randy Weaver's wife, etc.) Then what if it is Palestinians? I seem to remember the US funding and arming the Israelis, who constantly persecute the Palestinians in rather Nazi-esque manners at times. Yes, the deaths of US citizens are tragic, but do not let Uncle Sam get away with spinning this as someone else's fault! Do let these deaths be meaningless, they are all martyrs, they were all slain in cold blood by the enemy, and that enemy is the US Gov't! Mod me down as some fanatic or weirdo, but look at the facts, I don't see Canada getting attacked, and that's because Canada isn't funding programs of genocide against domestic and foreign peoples alike.
Wathing CNN right now. Kabul, Afghanistan is being attacked from the air.
.@.
Aditionally, I just heard, that Barbara Olsen, passenger on one of the planes, told her husband, that the terrorists were armed with no more than "knives and cardboard cutters". To me, this basically spells, that there is, no way, that it is virtually impossible to rule out forever a repeat of this kind of sickness. Of course, any kind of sharp object should and will be banned from any future flight,, but that just means they will have to invent a new type of weapon, one that will go undetected, like a wooden knive sheathed in a wooden sheath, together seeming a simple, harmless stick.
Smuggling simple weapons will be almost impossible to eliminate totally.
Some kind of military type fight seems to have broken out in/around Kabul. See other news sources for details.
Stefan.
The truth shall make you fret. (Ankh-Morpork tImes motto)
The 5th plane was coming in over the potomac at a high rate of speed. It was reported as being downed, but nothing more than that. I -speculate- that it was shot down and does not want to be reported because it was so close to hitting DC the military HAD to shoot it down.
I still find it difficult to bend my mind around the idea that today's attacks occurred not in Chechnya or Israel, but in the heart of American civilization. The very heart. I know, however, that America will survive this attack at punish those responsible. While perhaps "Pearl Harbor" is an extreme comparison, because we don't seem to be at war with a defined nation, it certainly will provoke almost as strong a change in public opinion and policy as that surprise attack.
Here at Macalester College in St. Paul, far far away from today's incidents, The state of MN has responded by shutting down the Mall of America and some of the larger buildings in downtown Mpls. and St. Paul. All over the cities, people are congregating, grieving for those lost and for the massive, mindless hatred and violence of today.
I think for millions of us, the most striking thing about this incident is its totally surreal nature. It is reminiscent of the end of Fight Club, or some kind of cartoonish super-villiany. The incident in Oklahoma City seemed far more within the realm of reality than "The destrucion of the WTC and a chunk of the Pentagon?!? Oh, please!"
In my opinion the best photo I've seen is located here. I suspect it'll be on the cover of TIME or Newsweek.
As for those of you angry with Mr. Katz for being trite: FUCK YOU! Thousands of people are DEAD and you have the balls to be angry with a man who's lost someone and prayed about it?! Only on the anonymous Internet would a person dare to tell someone they were being trite mourning a friend lost violently. You cruel bastards...
Oh on one last note, remember the trailers for the Spiderman movie? Will the scene with a bad-guy helicopter caught by a web between the WTC towers be kept for final theatrical release??
--hongpong.com
Finally, I don't know what they're going to do about accomodations! I don't see how we can possibly have enough hotels by the airport for this, so they're going to have to send people far afield. That's going to be a real problem.
You said it. Guess there are a lot of planes that got directed to land in what's usually flyover country. Wichita's hotels, according to the radio, are full, and they'll be putting Mid-Continent passengers (or unpassengers, as it turns out) in hotels clear out to Salina. Salina's something like an hour away. (But it's on I-70, so if you're not able to fly, at least you're on a major highway. Although I hear Greyhound isn't running now, either.)
Slashdot's token middle-aged housewife
In Kabul, Afghanistan, CNN reports that there is anti-aircraft fire going up from the city, along with tracer fire. Missiles flying across the city, a building is on fire.
According to MSNBC 40 story WTC 7 has come down as well. I tried to find more info on there page but there doesn't appear to be any. Please post more infomation or other links if you have them.
Kabul, Afghanistan is under attack.
::Colz Grigor
Looks just like Baghdad in 1991.
>My God, what happened?
/. we bemoan what corporatism in league with the government are doing to the information sector, but it still remains uncommon to be able to travel over 3000 miles with as few controls as are possible here. But an open society requires a citizenry (and alien residents and visitors) that values it and behaves accordingly.
The ultimate "tragedy of the commons".
The United States has been a wonderful experiment in an open society. On
That last assumption may no longer be valid, and what that does to an open society, I have no idea.
On a slight side note, this does the Palestinians no good at all. If they really wanted sympathy and to affect US policy, they should have made a movie set on the West Bank, with everyday life as a backdrop. Instead they've merely upped the body count. (Presuming it's not Son of Timothy, and the data IS rather indicative.) While I agree that 'appeasement' doesn't work, I fear what may have been awakened in the US, and only hope our response, whenever it comes, is properly 'measured'.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
This is an old article, but still very true today. In hindsight, America does things wrong, but overwhelmingly what they do is good. When was the last time you heard someone say thank you?
.. the Truman Policy .. all pumped billions upon billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now, newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent war-mongering Americans.
... and safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at. Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, most of them ... unless they are breaking Canadian laws .. are getting American dollars from Ma and Pa at home to spend here.
... as they will... who could blame them if they said 'the hell with the rest of the world'. Let someone else buy the Israel bonds, Let someone else build or repair foreign dams or design foreign buildings that won't shake apart in earthquakes.
.. with the year less than half-over... has taken it all and nobody...but nobody... has helped.
"The Americans" - Original Script
"LET'S BE PERSONAL" Broadcast June 5, 1973 CFRB, Toronto, Ontario
Topic: "The Americans"
The United States dollar took another pounding on German, French and British exchanges this morning, hitting the lowest point ever known in West Germany. It has declined there by 41% since 1971 and this Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least-appreciated people in all the earth.
As long as sixty years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I read of floods on the Yellow River and the Yangtse. Who rushed in with men and money to help? The Americans did.
They have helped control floods on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges and the Niger. Today, the rich bottom land of the Misssissippi is under water and no foreign land has sent a dollar to help. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.
When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries into help... Managua Nicaragua is one of the most recent examples. So far this spring, 59 American communities have been flattened by tornadoes. Nobody has helped.
The Marshall Plan
I'd like to see one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplanes.
Come on... let's hear it! Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar or the Douglas 107? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all international lines except Russia fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or women on the moon?
You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times
When the Americans get out of this bind
When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name to you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble.
Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
Our neighbours have faced it alone and I am one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles.
I hope Canada is not one of these. But there are many smug, self-righteous Canadians. And finally, the American Red Cross was told at its 48th Annual meeting in New Orleans this morning that it was broke.
This year's disasters
ORIGINAL SCRIPT AND AUDIO
COURTESY STANDARD BROADCASTING CORPORATION LTD.
(c) 1973 BY GORDON SINCLAIR
PUBLISHED BY STAR QUALITY MUSIC (SOCAN)
A DIVISION OF UNIDISC MUSIC INC.
578 HYMUS BOULEVARD
POINTE-CLAIRE, QUEBEC,
CANADA, H9R 4T2
I agree with others that Slashdot was great today. The focus on the disasters was admirable, and the information was high quality. Extra kudos to the posters who offered high quality links when it seemed that the world was slashdotted.
That said, I found that Slashdot was not the right source for news today. The news I got here was delayed (the stories) or hard to sift through (the posts). I found great fringe material (red cross info, missing persons sites, etc) and lots of mirrored material (thanks to all!) but it was diluted by speculation, rumor, flames and unchecked emotion. On the plus side, there was also support, prayers and many thoughtful discussions. Again, this diluted the news for better or for worse.
Instead, I found ananova to be the best site on the net today, with a simple, chronological list of relevent wire reports: ananova.com topic focus.
But I suspect I will find Slashdot to be the best site on the net for reflection over the next week or so.
Note, that this isn't criticism, but observation. Slashdot is more a community than a news source. This was an interesting mini-revelation for me today. Maybe Slashdot needs a QuickNews feature which lets stories go up faster (and get pulled down faster when proved inaccurate or inappropriate). I think a community run, up-to-the-minute news source would be valuable. Just some thoughts...
MSNBC is reporting apparent missile explosions near the airport in Kabul, Afghanistan. The US could already be retaliating!
Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
Here in the UK I'm hearing reports that missiles are falling in Kabul.
Two wrongs don't make a right. The civilians of Afghanistan deserve it no more than the civilians of New York.
"Oops, I always forget the purpose of competition is to divide people into winners and losers." - Hobbes
My building is about 4 or 5 blocks away, I got up about 9ish to go
get a coffee and noticed that the air was full of papers, like a ticker tape
parade, then i saw that one of the wtc towers was on fire. I asked some guys in
another office what happened, they said that they had heard that a plane hit it.
A this point we were thinking small plane, accident. While we were
watching, all of the sudden we heard the second one and could see it really
low doing a steep turn. Then we watched it fly right into the second tower. At
that point it was obvious that this was not an accident. I thought, i'm on the
37th floor of one of the buildings cloest to the water, i'm getting the fuck out
of here. Grabbed my stuff went to the elevator. The first one was packed so
i took the stairs. When I got out of the building, i figured that I wanted to
get off the island. I usually take the ferry, but the one i catch is too close
to the wtc so I took the wall street one from the east side of the island. I
didn't care where it was going as long as it was New Jersey. I was pretty early
so i didn't have to wait too long. As my ferry was going up the Hudson beside
the wtc the first tower collapsed, it filled the whole downtown area with thick
black smoke about 100 ft high. I caught a train from Hoboken and got 3/4's of
the way home and the power failed. So i got
off and walked until i found a pay phone, cell phones pretty much didn't work. Called my wife and she
came and picked me up. We gave some other people rides home as well.
In all it was kind of exciting, very unreal and very horrible. I'm sure that the
horror of the whole thing will come out in the next few days.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
Hmmm... Someone is making loud noices in Afghanistan.
I hope it's not the US, and if it is, I hope they have a very good reason for it.
Was just listening to Swedish radio...
It's 11pm, do you know what your deamons are up to?
From CNN:
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
Eerie.
I love the smell of Karma in the morning
The explosions in Kabul have apparently ceased for the time being. No officials have been able to confirm who is responsible. The burning building is apparently an ammunition dump. No URL links available to the story yet.
CNN speculates that it is possible that the fighting could actually be infighting within afghanistan, and this may be civil infighting. No one has been able to pinpoint the missile's origin.
From CNN:
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
I just had to explain to my son earlier today what today's events are about and did not realize the somewhat sage things I said until just now.
Remember that in Pearl Harbor there was a *clear objective and "visible" enemy*.
WWI, WWII, were the same.
Desert storm/shield was quoted by Bush Sr as "not going to be another Viet-nam" for the simple reason that if you go in shooting and stay w/o a reason...you've lost already.
Is this the same?
This has elements of Perl Harbor because it has been brought to our soil, but the elements of Viet-nam are the "enemy" has yet to show himself...That *scares* the hell out of me, and makes me even angrier.
Moose.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
Might not be the US attacking Kabul...
The Taliban have been attacking targets just north of Kabul as recently as last night.
http://www.afghan-web.com/aop/today.html
Anybody knows more about this? Is it the US.
I was watching TV News when the continuous repetition of the twin towers falling switched to images of missiles in the night and an explosion (very confuse), and the reporter said that those were images from Afghanistan, but it was unclear what was happening. More news about it anyone?
I'm trying really hard to be calm, levelheaded and fair about this whole thing. Maybe you should do the same, and remember that Afghanistan's in the middle of a civil war right now before shooting your mouth off.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
What, you'd prefer an indiscriminate, all out attack that kills hundreds, thousands, or tens of thousands of people with no connection with the atrocity in question?
Hmm. Sounds kind of like blowing up the World Trade Centre and murdering thousands of people because you dislike the policies of the US government, don't it?
Bunch of pictures of what is left.[http://www.scottrossi.com/wtc/]
I knew it would be bad, but a picture is definately worth a thousand words.
-Frijoles-
Yeah, I knew about those :)
I was commenting on the story summary: it made it seem like they're *all* landing in Iqualuit and Churchill, and Whitehorse.
Now: I'm sure any Pacific flights will be diverted to the nearest location, and that would be Vancouver or Whitehorse.
Meanwhile, here in Toronto, Candian Blood Services and Sunnybrook Hospital are *packed* with people giving blood. This is a great thing to see! I'll be off to give blood tomorrow. Also, Mayor Mel has pledged emergency service support (firefighters, paramedics, etc) to NYC, which is also very good to see.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Maybe it is Bin Ladin who is attacking Afghanistan and attacked NYC and DC. Maybe He is trying to take over that country and start his "world domination". Yes I know it sound so cliche but you never now. He does want to create a solid muslim state so this might be the beginning of that process. I will most likely be marked as a troll but I can not do anything about that.
CNN is reporting that the White House has denied any US involvement in the Kabul bombings and that its likely part of the ongoing civil war in Afghanistan.
i think that's a shite idea
Hairbrained idea, mod up if you think it's good (please). Here's what the dihard SlashDot'ers NEED to do (if you agree mod this up!)
I am about to mirror some of what I found, sometime somewhere soon, TBA.... I hope we can band together to pull off a media spread fast and informative.
Comment on Trademarks and Copywrights: Screw them, this is too important. DO NOT white out sources, GIVE FULL CREDIT IF YOU CAN!!! But, we want the news spread clear and fast, with as much detail as we can. So, give credit, and if they don't make the credits for the photos or media clear enough in the content, it's THIER FAULT for not taking credit... Let's just mirror shit so we don't choke down the major news sites and the best photos we can find.
CNN is claiming that this is an Afghanistan civil war battle, and not a USA attack.
God, I hope so. For the US to respond in force in less than 12 hours would practically imply that someone giving orders knew about the trade center attacks before they happened.
It's Guttermouth's song, not mine. Besides, you'll notice they list a whole bunch of things, not necessarily connected to each other.
I stated that my point was "who is the asshole?" et cetera. To clarify: I am commenting on the fact that I am watching everybody lay the blame on each other here, at school, on the news -- the people laying the blame do so because they think they know who the "asshole" is, yet they're being assholes themselve.
Please read comments carefully. Don't assume that because I quote something I believe it. If someone said, "Never in my life... I would have voted for Bush." If you only saw the "I would have voted for Bush" part, and not the first part, you would have completely missed the point the person was making, just because you didn't take the time to read it fully.
[To say nothing of my personal feelings!] I firmly disapprove of prejudice and stereotyping and I can't stand people who do it. Don't assume I stereotype unless you know for a fact that I do. It's your kinds of comment that deserve "-1, Troll".
"Moderations: Troll=2"
Let me explain my point in more obvious terms, since it is apparent you did not take the time to read carefully.
(This would make so-and-so an asshole of immense proportions.)
But wouldn't those laying undue blame be assholes themselves then?
Just like in the song, people are stereotyping. I have seen more "Bomb the Middle East" posts than I can count. <SARCASM>So I guess everyone in the Middle East deserves to die, eh...</SARCASM>
Hah. Now I know why experienced slashdot users sometimes write sarcasm in all caps; otherwise the triggerhappy moderators might not see it.
--TheOrangeSquid Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&frame=right& th=54ab4d241c34e0cc&seekm=3b8fd177%40monitor.lanse t.com#link1
Below is the google thread:
He predicts the exact day!! He says he would not be around after!!! He may be a suicider!!
From: Xinoehpoel (tesnal@psl.moc)
Subject: Re: 911
Newsgroups: alt.prophecies.nostradamus
View this article only
Date: 2001-09-04 12:40:28 PST
Wait 7 days, and then maybe I'll answer this post. You see, I am going away
in seven days, and you will not hear from me again.
X
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11
That link again: http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11
Carousel is a lie!
rm -rf /bin/laden
Please mod the parent post up. It has very useful information for those of us without access to a TV or radio right now.
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
It's a report that basically says that lots of incoming missiles are raining on the Afghanistan capital.
Any word if this is our retaliation?
"Avast! Prepare for the rodgering!" THWACK! "Arrr.. me nards.."
If, like me, you can't give blood for whatever reason, you can donate to the American Red Cross of Greater New York here.
Gerv
Get this info in Russian from HERE and use Babel, or read this:
----
all last information about the tragedy in THE USA .
Information constantly is renewed
nformatsiya about the tragic events in THE USA, arranged/located in this article, constantly it is renewed.
Fresh information is isolated with medium boldface type .
According to the communication/report to TV broadcasting company SI-N- N, which leads straight/direct reporting from kabul, in the Afghan capital several powerful explosions were heard . In several places of city the fires arose. Correspondent SI-N- N reports that the explosions in kabul " greatly resemble the explosions of the cruise missiles, which it observed two ago in Yugoslavia ".
According to the preliminary data, one of the explosions occurred in the place, where in kabul large fuel depot is located. In the sky above the city, reports SI-N- N with the reference to the eyewitnesses, were noticed several cruise missiles.
According to the data of urban authorities, in that become on Tuesday the object of the most destructive in the history OF THE USA attack of terrorists the complex of the center of international trade, which was being considered one of the main sights of the largest city OF THE USA, it worked to 50 thousand people, skyscraper- twins assumed/took daily higher 10 thousand visitors " this- nightmare it is worse/worst, which could happen ", he said in the interview, hardly holding in control tears, the mayor of New York Rudolf Dzhulianni.
According to the data of the special services OF THE USA, the terrorist acts, carried out on Tuesday in Washington and New York, organized the international terrorist Of usama Ben Laden . On this reported the TV broadcasting company " Fox ".
As a result of today's teraktov, when both towers of world commercial center in New York were brought down, were injured not less than 2100 people, of them about 600 with the heavy injuries were delivered into the hospitals. On this reported the mayor of New York Rudolf Dzhuliani, transfers BY CHNN. the number of those been killed as before unknown and it will be named only into the medium or even on Thursday. At the same time, according to the data of spasateley, a quantity of victims still can grow considerably - according to the preliminary data, at the moment/torque terakta in the towers of world commercial center were located not less than 40 000 people.
As a result of terakta in the building of the Pentagon, supposedly, perished about 100 people. The aircraft of vrezalsya into the compartments/rooms, where were arranged/located two departments of the Pentagon for fight with the terrorism.
As a result of fire the 40- storeyed building, which entered into the complex of world commercial center in New York, collapsed. The house, which is building the number of 7 complexes, obtained damages and it inflamed after caving as a result of terakta of two 110- storeyed skyscrapers. Somewhat previously collapsed the building of smaller height - number 6, also entered into complex. In all into the complex of world commercial center in New York entered 7 buildings, including two 110- storeyed skyscrapers.
All commercial flights of the aircraft above the territory OF THE USA are stopped at least to noon of medium on the local time " not some aircraft to this time it will take off ", stated director on the communications of the White House Of keren of Hugh meanwhile approximately 500 voyages, which were being sent to the USA because of the boundary were perenapravleny into the Canadian airports
CHNN reported the last data about the numbers of the voyages, by which had to fly the aircraft seized by terrorists: the voyage of 11 companies " Amer. Airlines " Boston-Los- Angeles, the voyage of 77 companies " Amer. Airlines " of Washington (airport Dallesa)-Los- Angeles, the voyage of 93 companies " United Airlines " Newark-San- Francisco, the voyage of 175 companies " United Airlines " Boston-Los- Angeles.
The ministry of defense OF THE USA declared the highest degree of anxiety - " readiness for the war ", reports CHNN. it is declared general mobilization. Are put into operation the alternate command posts of the army OF THE USA sky above America closed, PVO l - AIR DEFENSEm OF THE USA monitors entire territory of the country from the command center in the state of Colorado.
The President OF THE USA George Bush could not rapidly return to Washington from Florida and he stated on the military base in the state of Louisiana that all armed forces to THE USA and abroad were given to the increased combat readiness. According to him, " attack underwent democracy itself and democracy will be protected ". To 21:30 on Moscow time the President OF THE USA could return to the capital, but it does not communicate about his location.
As reports RIA of " news " , the special session of the permanent council of North Atlantic agreement will be assembled in the nearest hours in the staff office OF NATO in Brussels.
According to the deputy chairman of senate committee on reconnaissance Richard Shelbi, American special services government organizations obtained " absolutely no information " about prepared teraktakh, reports RIA of " news " .
TV -6 reports that one of the aircraft, which flew from Moscow to THE USA, was as other international voyages, perenapravlen into Canada and villages. Russia forbade the departure of all aircraft, which follow in THE USA.
About 9 hundred in the evening on Moscow time the representative of Russian federation in THE UNITED NATIONS Sergey Lavrov reported that, according to his data, among the colleagues of official Russian representations in New York and Washington and the members of their families there are no been killed. The opening of the current 56-1 session of the general assembly OF UNITED NATIONS outlined for Tuesday is abolished.
Information more lately entered, that one additional driven away passenger aircraft " Boeing-747 " approaches Washington. As reported CHNN, it was biased/beaten BY VVS OF THE USA in all, according to the data of TV broadcasting company NYUK, in THE USA were seized 11 (eleven) passenger aircraft. Location 4 of them is unknown Until now.
One additional communication/report entered 18 hours 50 minutes: near the large American city Pittsburgh fell " Boeing ", which belonged " to United Airlines ". On its board/edge it was 81 people. Broke one additional aircraft in the Washington airport Dulles, on his board/edge it was 54 people. It communicates also that in the last hours in THE USA occurred 8 (eight) avikatastrof.
It communicated that one additional aircraft, which turned above Washington, was constrained by USAF l - United States Air forcem land and collapsed not far from the residence of the President OF THE USA into the camp -Devide (state of Maryland). Late officials refuted this information.
A quantity of victims cannot be even assumed, but out of any doubt, it is enormous. Perished pilot- suicide and the passengers of three aircraft (according to the preliminary data, only in one of the aircraft it was located 160 people). Majorities of 50 000 TSMT were already at their work sites at the moment of attack. TV -6 reports that people jumped out from the burning buildings of the center of international trade. There were at the places and the colleagues of American military department. Furthermore, precisely, on the upper levels of two New York towers are located running plates completely popular among the tourists.
According to the last estimations/evaluations, perished not less than 50 thousand people. American cities are panic-stricken. Is declared state of emergency in the largest cities OF THE USA - in New York, Washington, San Francisco, Los Angeles. Thousands of victims enter into the hospitals of New York and Washington.
Sky-TV reported that the responsibility for these terakty took upon itself the democratic Front of the release of Palestine, but this late communication/report was disproved by officials DFOP. The leader of the Palestinian autonomy of yasir Arafat also condemned the terrorist acts in THE USA also about his nonparticipation they stated and the leaders of motions " khamas " and " Islamic dzhikhad ". According to the data OF CHNN, in the territory of Palestinian autonomy it passes a kind of the celebration, which passes into the the people of gulyaniya. In East Jerusalem is conducted the demonstration of several ten Arabs, who praise Usamu Bean Ladena.
According to last data, terakty were condemned " main suspected " - by Afghan fundamentalistskim motion " taliban ". this statement made the ambassador of talibov to Pakistan. According to the information CHNN, taliby also stated that Usama Bean Laden was not participating to these teraktam. According to them, it simply does not have this technical capability.
The President Vladimir Putin expressed the condolence of the people OF THE USA it was conducted special communication/report with the power ministers. About 9 hours of msk the President RF appeared on the television and brought on behalf of the people of Russia his condolences to American people. The Minister/Secretary of Defense RF Sergey Ivanov made statement, that the servicemen of Russia were ready to render assistance OF THE USA in connection with teraktami in the American cities.
http://dtum.livejournal.com
You're right (BBC reporting that too).
KNEE_JERK_REACTION_MODE==FALSE
Hope that holds true for Dubbyah too..
You can look at this (about Afghan civil war) for more details on what is going on there recently.
"Oops, I always forget the purpose of competition is to divide people into winners and losers." - Hobbes
Some video that wasn't on the news [at least when I got it] and some pics that look to be from someone's digital camera nearby.
and I'm still trying to collect more videos and pics...
Nothing to see here
I recieved some pictures from a friend and they are the most detailed and clear that I've seen so far so I added them onto my site:
http://www.hiris.com/nycpics.htm
The thing that amazes me is the fact that Palestinians aren't scared out of their mind as they celebrate. They're acting as if they've "defated" the United States, while all it's really done is cause the entire population to turn red with rage against them. Whereas Pearl Harbor may have given the Japanese a reason to celebrate a potential victory over the U.S. power, our military is as strong tonight as it was this morning. We have the big guns, so they're basically going to be fucked in the end if the higher up's find out their country was involved.
I know that if I were in their place, even if I wanted to celebrate, I'd do it privately. Also, if I realized my country's population were celebrating in the streets and being filmed on international TV, I'd get the hell out of the country before the bombs started falling.
--
Importantly -- remember, blood is in demand. The Red Cross' site is mobbed
I'm worried that might be true in more than one way.
The shareholder is always right.
perhaps he should have studied the meaning and history of that saying.
It has nothing to do with extracting physical retribution.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
What the HECK is wrong with these people! I have two gas stations near my house....one is $1.59 a gallon and another is $4.99 a gallon! The one with $1.59 a gallon has a line a block long! Oil has been 30 dollars a barrel before....why are thes gas stations hiking the price???
Gorkman
Here's what the dihard SlashDot'ers NEED to do (if you agree mod this up!)
I am about to mirror some of what I found, sometime somewhere soon, TBA.... I hope we can band together to pull off a media spread fast and informative.
Comment on Trademarks and Copywrights: Screw them, this is too important. DO NOT white out sources, GIVE FULL CREDIT IF YOU CAN!!! But, we want the news spread clear and fast, with as much detail as we can. So, give credit, and if they don't make the credits for the photos or media clear enough in the content, it's THIER FAULT for not taking credit... Let's just mirror shit so we don't choke down the major news sites and the best photos we can find.
PS: Send donations to EFF, I'm going to need them if it works......
From MSNBC:
Kindness, bravery amid the horror
Internet used to rally relief work, offer housing and help
Sept 11 -- In the midst of terror and tragedy, charity fought back across America -- and across the Internet. Tales of thousands of small heroes are emerging, from a New York City bus driver who sped people to safety amid falling debris to a McDonald's manager near ground zero who kept his store open to give rescue workers water. But the kindness has spread far and wide outside New York and Washington D.C. Long lines outside blood donor agencies started forming spontaneously Tuesday morning. And around the country, homeowners near airports are offering free housing to stranded travelers through Internet message boards.
HUNDREDS OF STORIES of spontaneous acts of kindness are emerging. As always, horrendous acts of hate have a way of bringing out strong acts of love.
When Maria Trotta, who was stuck in a subway under the trade center for 45 minutes, finally emerged from the smoke-filled subway, the smoke was even worse above ground. But instead of running home, she took care of a woman who had asthma.
"I went looking for a mask for her, but couldn't find any, but the only thing I could find was a pair of (fortunately clean) athletic socks," Trotta said.
She guided her several blocks, finally leaving her in the care of EMTs at a rescue station. Only then did she walk across Manhattan Bridge back home to Brooklyn to meet her husband. "I never got her name."
Jay Lacny was on a bus that sped away from the World Trade Center just moments after the second plane hit. He was one of thousands who are currently sharing stories describing how lucky they are to be alive. He was with a crowd that was standing in the street watching the fire in the first tower when the second plane hit the other building.
"We then literally ran for our lives with debris crashing all around us," he said. "A bus pulled up a couple of blocks away and everyone rushed on and then sped us to safety a mile away. The driver and all of us were scared for our lives, but did nothing out of the ordinary. I'm sure that many others have contributed greatly and risked their lives."
Much of the real heroism came from fire and police workers at the rescue scene. A New York City police officer who declined to share his name was carrying victims out of Five World Trade Center when it collapsed.
"The fire department were getting people out from the rubble and we [the police officers] were carrying them out," he said. "I carried some out and was going back in to get more, but they wouldn't let me back in. They said the structure was unstable. That's when the second tower collapsed." He said many victims were still inside, and several were still alive after the collapse -- and too stunned to yell for help.
"(People) were dazed and shocked. It was surreal. I've never seen anything remotely like it. There just are no words to describe it," he said.
Across New York, thousands of volunteers pitched in. Store owners opened their doors and gave away flashlights, water, food or anything else that would help rescue workers or victims forced to walk home to Brooklyn, Queens, New Jersey or elsewhere once public transportation was shut down. A Duane Reade pharmacy gave out free water, snacks and first aid supplies. A Mrs. Fields Cookies gave away all its food.
Others helped by offering free rides to victims trying to get home.
"A lot of my neighbors here in Cobble Hill were driving around and organizing car pools to bring the refugees to the Atlantic Avenue train station and other places where they could catch a train," said Gian Trotta. "And I saw some kids from the projects at Red Hook walking up to give blood at Long Island College Hospital."
Blood donors who showed up at hospitals were eager to help out the same way.
"At 11a.m. today, I could not stand watching the TV any longer and I told the people in my office that I was walking over to NYU Medical Center to give blood," said Joshua Glantz. "Six people followed me and we gathered more people on the 20-minute walk. It was depressing but also heartening to see people turn in their tracks to join our group. When we got to the hospital, we found an eight-hour wait to give blood."
Across the Hudson River in New Jersey, blood donor lines wound around Hackensack Medical Center, too -- in fact, the hospital was so flooded with donors that a remote donor station was in the works at a nearby church in Wood-Ridge, N.J.
Outside the city, thousands of Netizens began to hunt for ways to help during the crisis. Soon after word came that all flights at U.S. airports had been grounded, offers flooded in for free housing for the night.
"We are 30 minutes from Salt Lake Airport," Greg Smith wrote to a Princeton University alumni newsletter. "Plenty of room for stranded travelers and we can do an airport run to pick anyone up."
Graham Doran made the same offer for folks in San Francisco: "Plenty of couch space. Already picked up one guest, can handle a couple of more," Doran said.
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
Here in San Diego, CA, the US-Mexico border is open, but it is on Level 1 security (the highest level, which means you will get searched). Supposedly, officials are guessing it will take at least 3 hours to cross the border, possibly longer. It won't be fun tonight if you have to cross the border...
Doh!
Very good idea, IMO! At those distances and angles, tasers and batons - and training in martial arts, to use them and be able to fight unarmed if necessary - would seem sufficient. It's not easy to smuggle heavy armor onto a plane, so the variety of situations would probably be limited: terrorists get up from amidst the passengers, possibly bring out a knife or a gun, possibly have one or more bombs on the airliner...
Heck, it'd probably be rather easy to train security against most hijacking situations. One or two security specialists in addition to the stewards...or possibly just have at least one or two stewards on each flight be security-trained and equipped. Most flights, the baton wouldn't come out (and could be hidden under the uniform, so you wouldn't know who's armed unless you know they're all armed), so make sure to refresh the training every so often. This might help against air rage, too.
Belgian on-line media is also covering the events :
Le Soir (in french)
La Libre Belgique
De Standaard (in dutch).
Also in french :
Le Monde
-DZM
somebody named Xinoehpoel on alt.prophecies.nostradamus apparently predicted this 7 days before it happened... weird...
I just spoke with the Northside branch (Range Line Rd in Carmel) and was told they will stay until they have served all donors that are there by 20:00 EST. I am number 163 in line, they haven't reached number 100 yet. They recommended to me that if I didn't want to wait until who knows how late tonight, to call back tomorrow (or go in).
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
the backbone is, according to them, at about 80% utilization -- they've never seen it above 40% before. However, the
main portal sites such as Yahoo aren't having substantively higher than normal traffic.
I'd be willing to lay money on the fact that it's
email. People are talking to each other.
Tweet, tweet.
Look at the synopsis from "The Siege", it forecasted a lot of what happened.
A special agent of the FBI, a case officer of the CIA, and a general in the U.S. Army have all taken the same oath - "to support and defend the Constitution" - but when a bus blows up in Brooklyn and a campaign of terror begins to make its bloody mark on a city under siege, the men and women who have sworn to protect the country must now reckon with the many implications of their oath.
Anthony "Hub" Hubbard (Denzel Washington), the head of the joint FBI/NYPD terrorism task force, is the man charged with keeping New York City safe from an array of threats that seem to grow more terrifying with every headline. As an officer of the court, his job is the apprehension and prosecution of criminals. Elise Kraft (Annette Bening) is a CIA operative, now undercover, with important sources in the Arab-American community and ambiguous ties to the suspects. Her agenda, like that of her government's foreign policy, is more complex than Hub's. And yet these two are forced to work together, forging an uneasy alliance, as the incidents of terror threaten to paralyze the city.
But before they can accomplish their mission, the public's clamor for safety forces the hand of the President of the United States - whose only recourse is to declare a State of Emergency and ask help from the military. General William Devereaux (Bruce Willis) is a thoughtful, cautious warrior who well knows the dangers of bringing the army onto the streets of an American city. Although he argues against it, when he's given the unenviable task of imposing military order he responds as a soldier must, with unquestioning obedience and purpose.
As the pursuit of the terrorists becomes more desperate, these three lives become intertwined in a terrible and frightening dilemma, a situation that threatens the very fabric of a democratic society and the central premises on which it is founded.
http://www.thesiege.com/htmls/movie_info2.html
The final parahraph is very important:
At what point does the protection of the country's citizens conflict with the protection of their rights? Faced with such grave danger, how will the members of a free society measure up? How quickly will the country abrogate the Constitution? How shallowly beneath the surface does the ugly spectre of repression and persecution reside? Or more simply put: Will the people of this country be forced to become monsters in order to fight monsters?
At what point does the protection of the country's citizens conflict with the protection of their rights? Faced with such grave danger, how will the members of a free society measure up? How quickly will the country abrogate the Constitution? How shallowly beneath the surface does the ugly spectre of repression and persecution reside? Or more simply put: Will the people of this country be forced to become monsters in order to fight monsters?
Some photos from Brooklyn, of the crowds leaving over the Brooklyn and Manhattan Bridges, of the smoke billowing out over the Manhattan skyline, occluding the sun.
Some friends of mine watched the fire spread down the floors from the plane crashes before the towers collapsed.
http://www.kband.com/photo/
High-resolution versions of these photographs are available on request.
--
Make mine methylphenidate.
I guess the lesson is that all future US flights should have police/military personnel on board, so that there's somebody equipped to fight people with knives and cardboard cutters.
I've heard all the Israeli passenger flights have a soldier on board. Can anyone confirm/deny that?
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
False alarm. Sonic booms plus a grass fire. Details at:
s /0 911_vacenter.html
http://www.activedayton.com/partners/whiotv/new
---
Book(n): Utensil used to pass time while waiting for the TV repairman
It has been denied by a US official that the US is involved. The current speculation is that it is the guerilla enemies of the taliban retaliating for attacks that occured over the weekend. In other words at best weekly connected to the events in the US.
If you liked this thought maybe you would find my blog nice too:
While no public accusations of blame were made by the U.S. government, senior officials, along with experts on terrorism, were unanimous in their belief that the attacks were the work of Osama bin Laden, the Saudi exile who leads the shadowy Al-Qaeda terrorist organization. [MSNBC]
Everyone has jumped to that conclusion because it fits his modus operandi so perfectly, including a boastful video tape alluding to such attacks that has circulated around the middle east in recent weeks (as did similar tapes prior to the attacks in Yemen, our embassies in Africa, etc.).
If and when we determine that it was, in fact, Osama bin Laden I fervently hope we eradicate the bastards and any country which has given him and his followers any form of aid and comfort. If said eradication were to include the use of nuclear weapons I, for one, would not be in the least upset by this. On the contrary, at this moment I would probably cheer. Guilt is for later, after we have killed the enemy and exterminated the vermin, eliminating the threat once and for all.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
From CNN.com:
BREAKING NEWS
Afghanistan opposition claims responsibility for Kabul explosions. Details soon.
It's good to see that the people at The Naked News have the good taste to suspend programming in light of today's tragedy.
_______
2B1ASK1
Good point, AC! Too many people are advocating insane retaliation levels (nuclear weapons?! genocide?!) without knowing all the facts.
Anyway, that little bit of news disgusted me. Something like $50 million dollars were given to a fucking police state theocracy because they'd been successful at reducing opium exports!
I don't want to jump to conclusions; I don't know if Ben Ladin was responsible for today's disaster... but that money went from corrupt politicians to totalitarian monsters, whether they happen to be today's monsters or not.
Barb Olsen was the passenger on the plane that went down in PA who called out on her cell phone.
She was the wife of Ted Olsen, Solicitor General of the United States. Mr. Olsen represents the United States in cases that appear before the Supreme Court.
I will not even begin to speculate on how this will impact our response to the terrorism.
My legal education, in nifty podcast format
Notice that I did open the possibility that it wasn't the Palestinians. But I had a typo when I said the 'data' was indicative, rather it's the 'date' that's indicative, as the anniversary of the Camp David Peace Accord. There is speculation that the Pittsburgh airplane was headed there. There is also some feeling that the World Trade Center was an important target to Bin-Laden, as a symbol of American Money, and considering that there had already been one attempt.
You're right in it's early to rush to judgement.
But at the moment, the two most likely parties appear to be Palestinians or anti-globalization Slashdotters. I really don't believe the IRA would touch this one.
Besides, until enough facts come out to sway public opinion that it's NOT Palestinian, they'll most likely bear the brunt of blame.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Aditionally, I just heard, that Barbara Olsen, passenger on one of the planes, told her husband, that the terrorists were armed with no more than "knives and cardboard cutters".
Ummm...without trying to sound callous...how did CNN hear of this? Aren't all the passengers dead? Moderators, please READ the posts prior to hitting MODERATE. It helps.
The report I heard on one of the news stations was that Barbara Olsen called her husband from the plane to tell him that it had been hijacked. I believe that this was the plane that went into the Pentagon.
I have nothing to back this up other than what I heard on (I believe) CBS.
-Rob
and fill hollowpoints with bacon. Time to not allow others to follow to Allah.
DanH
Cav Pilot's Reference Page
UNIX - Not just for Vestal Virgins anymore
I just had a thought -- what effect is this going to have on the dissemination of civilian encryption technology?
Right now everybody's trying to figure out how this could possibly have been planned in secret. Eventually the finger pointing is going to get around to encryption technology, and maybe even the recent lifting of restrictions.
I fear we're about to be set back decades in the battle to effectively communicate in a private manner.
Has anybody noticed that it is September 11? Or 9-11-01
or 911.
Coincidence? Or Irony.
-S
We Apprentice Developers and Designers
Part of me is outright angry at those who did this.
Part of me wonders why there can't be peace on this earth.
Part of me cries at the loss suffered by the families.
Part of me is callous, and knows it was going to happen some day.
Part of me stayed home this morning.
Part of me went to work this afternoon.
Part of me says "Go home now".
Part of me says "Go hide under a rock".
The whole of me is split - and I really don't know what to say...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
See here for a brief explanation of the history of the net.
Canadian Blood Services at 1-888-2-DONATE
There's a blood bank at Sunnybrook in Toronto, but it's swamped -- so call the number first.
There was a report that some burn victims might be airlifted to Sunnybrook. (500 miles) If they don't need the blood in Toronto, they can ship it on to New York.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
I fully agree with you that Nuclear Retaliation
is thoroughly unjustified right now. ANY large
scale attack that kills innocent civilians is
unjustified.
However, Hiroshima and Nagasaki may very well have
been the right thing to do in their times. It's
easy to forget that without such a display of
devastating force, Japan would likely not have
surrendered, and we would have spent thousands upon thousands of lives -- Japanese as well as American -- fighting to take them by conventional methods.
It's absolutely awful what happened to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I don't deny that. However, faced with equally awful alternatives, the US made a choice, and it may have even been the better choice.
Tweet, tweet.
I would think that if Afgahnistan were stupid enought to be involved in this lunacy then they will reap the whirlwind. - the bombings are being carried out by the Afghani opposition and the mujahadeen rebels against the governemtn BUT the loss of a few civilians of a country that funds and supports terrorism and murders women whilst stamping all over and freedom society has is nothing weighed against a possible 50,000+ dead in the US
I refuse to argue with Anonymous Cowards - if you want a discussion get an account....
I am FROM Lafayette, Indiana, have been on the phone to Lafayette, Indiana today and I can assure you this is *FALSE*
"Yes.. no matter what the culture, folk dancing is stupid." -MST3K
The U.S. government has a history of thinking that violence is the answer. The U.S. government killed 2,100,000 people in Vietnam and maybe 150,000 people in Iraq. The U.S. has bombed 14 countries in 30 years, killing a roughly estimated 3,000,000 people. None of the people who were killed were in any way directly threatening the U.S.
Bush's education improvements were
Wow. Here amidst the racks, with servers humming, it's easy to forget that radio exists when all you can get is static.
How about you properly shield and ground your servers? I have a dozen servers here and six workstations in my office (yeah, it's great in this office... not) but the radio comes in just fine.
> >For the US to respond in force in less than 12 > >hours would practically imply that someone
> >giving orders knew about the trade center
> >attacks before they happened.
> Funny you should mention this. When I was
> driving to work this morning, I was listening to
> the radio here in LA (KYSR, Jamie and
> Danny) and someone had called in saying that
> they were in the Army Reserve, and was told LAST
> NIGHT to go on standby!
Mod this up. This is important. If there's ANY indication the government knew something was up, then we need to know about it.
Tweet, tweet.
I have set up a some shoutcast servers with the audio off CNN, for all those people who don't have access to CNN
server1 server2
.:work is a selfinflicted handicap:.
If you're using geocities.com as a free service, your traffic per hour is restricted, so it's no good for providing pictures etc. IIRC, you have 3 GB / month, but your actual traffic is checked on an hourly basis and access is removed as soon as you go over a certain limit.
Right now, your page looks like that:
Access to this site will be restored within an hour.
(reposting here since it was a reply earlier and people probably won't see it)
First and foremost, I do NOT think the actions today are justified; it was a horrible act, and furthermore, not just an terrorist attack, but an -act of war-. The US should retaliate, should find whoever committed the act, and show that we will not take this sitting down.
OTOH, we have to understand why this happened. It's hard to look at things rationally when something like this happens, especially when its a direct attack to our country, but we still do need to understand why things happens so we can prevent it later.
Here, let me use an analogy that (most) of you will hopefully understand. When Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold shot up Columbine High School, there were a lot of people (especially here) who said that their acts were horrendous, but they understood why they were committed: the boys were bullied and tortured constantly for years; they were finally getting revenge, kamikaze style.
That said, (from what i've read) the Palestinians are extremely angry at the US because we supply Israel with weapons, money, and generally advocate their actions, and Israel in turn torture Palestinan citizens and generally treat them like shit (for lack of a better term). This is their act of revenge, and although I say we should understand it, it should definitely not go unpunished. However, simply destroying Afghanistan (which we can without a doubtr easily do) will do no good.
Furthermore, here's my guesses on how things will pan out:
Assuming we bomb (or attack) Afghanistan (not just bin Laden) there will be further retaliation, and eventually start another war. If other countries don't get involved, that'll be it, and hopefully it'll end as quickly as the Gulf War. If other countries do get involved, I can easily see this turning into a World War III. Let me mention that we do -not- want a WWIII, simply because of the arms technologies available now. (Nuclear and atomic weapons, biological and chemical warfare, etc)
Anyways, that's it for now, focus back to CNN....
You might know her from writing that book about Hillary and various CNN panel discussions.
We here at school have begun collecting images and video to help out with the bandwidth problem the news sites are having... Here Also feel free to send anything in...
Ahh, I think I know how that happened. They listed the 4th plane as having gone down in somethingorother county, and shortened it to somethingorother CO -- hence Colorado...
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
I am listening to "Marketplace" on my public radio station. The devistation to the financial markets in the U.S. and world will be huge. The "bombings" were without a doubt a frontal assalt on our financial structure; a direct swipe at capitalism.
Morgan Stanley Dean Witter, Dutchebank, and hundreds of the bigtime names in the financial world had their main offices in that building. Thousands of U.S. dollars filtered through those offices.
I don't want to minimize the loss of life by a long shot... this is obviously what we need to center our thoughts on right now, but just a notice that this will have major reprocussions on the economy of the United States and the world. The dollar is going to lose a lot of value in the coming days, and who knows what account information was lost in the attack.
The world will go on. The markets will continue. We will continue... but we need to all get ready for a fight!
"Yes.. no matter what the culture, folk dancing is stupid." -MST3K
This will no doubt change airline security forever. Perhaps what is needed is a total redesign of these jumbo jets, i.e., to have the pilot cabin totally sealed off from the rest of the plane. The pilots could enter a separate door, and then have each of them enter a security code in order to start the engines. Is there any reason that the pilots need access to the rest of the plane? Separating them will give the pilots a hell of a lot more options in a hijack situation. They can radio for help, and they can put the plane down on their terms. And, most importantly, it will keep terrorists from taking direct control of the aircraft. As was said on NPR today, a 767 is a terrorist's dream bomb -- up to 250 passengers on board, 20,000 lbs of fuel, and who knows how many tons of steel traveling at a high velocity.
Let's face it, today's airliners are NOT designed with security in mind.
very interesting...but here's a working link.
This is a lameness/compression filter remover.
It would be grossly irresponsible to tell our enemies what we will not do, no matter how unlikely the exercise of that option may be. Our enemies must, at the very least, always have the thought in the back of their mind that if they anger us sufficiently WE CAN ANNIHILATE THEM.
To our men in uniform: Good hunting.
I don't fly much but I have wondered why the doors to the cockpit was so flimsy. So they lock it, big deal. Why isn't it armored? It's not like airplanes haven't been used for this type of distruction before ( World War II - Kamikaze's ).
I just heard a White House official saying that all kinds of new security will be enacted but nothing he mentioned would have stopped these people. Armored cockpit doors and armed pilots would have. Even having a few plainclothed security officials on each plane would help but I like having the regular flight crew armed since they would be well known by each member.
This shouldn't have happened. It shouldn't happen again. IMHO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
The irony is that the most devastating weapon from war-making facilities of a suicidal culture is from the civilians: suicidal bombers.
Perhaps the most frustrating aspect of this situation is that there isn't a single bad-guy country out there that acts as the "enemy." Instead, we have these loosely organized groups that cross international boundaries and aren't tied to specific nation-states. There simply is no way (within the Euro-American mindset) to defend against an enemy that plans to die in the attempt to wage war.
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
>but ideas like that chill me a lot more than a terrorist attack
How about this one?
What's the time from infection to symptoms for Anthrax? One can hope that this was ONLY planes and car bombs, as bad as those are. Imagine adding biologicals...
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Several thousand people died today in the course of a few hours. Tonight someone's got to explain to some 5 year old why their mommy or daddy isn't coming home. Rescue workers that rushed to help people evacuate the first building were trapped under the debris of the second building when the second plane hit. 233 people boarded planes this morning along with 25 attendants and 6 command crew members. They thought they were going to suffer jet lag after landing in LA and San Fransisco. Instead they were turned into human bombs. Go fuck yourself you goddamned piece of shit.
I'm a loner Dottie, a Rebel.
I am currently in the processing of mirroring CNN's website (three cheers for wget). As soon as I have finished, it will be available at http://www.aviation.ou.edu. I am only mirroring their main site (www.cnn.com), not their sub-sites (cnnfn.cnn.com and sportsillustrated.cnn.com), so you will still have to visit their servers to get those stories (and cnnfn does have some stories), but hopefully getting at least some of the Slashdot community off of CNN's servers can help them somewhat. It will probably be slightly behind CNN (possibly as much as 30 minutes, hopefully not that long), so I apologize in advance for any outdated content, as well as for any delay in posting new stories.
Incidentally, I am not certain about the capacity of my server, so if it should get slashdotted under the load (and it would probably be the server, not the network), please send me an e-mail at dbuckles@ou.edu, and I will try to restore it as quickly as possible.
--Dave
"Make it ten--I am only a poor corrupt official."
--Captain Louis Renault (Claude Rains), Casablanca
This might be a fluke but man is it interesting and freaky. It seems like this guy might have been a pilot of one of the planes.
Someone with mod points read this and mod up the post I'm replying to.
a hotline has been set up for those Australians with family in America
1800 002 214
Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has more for those who need it
Except it's not. It's been pretty thoroughly confirmed that the explosions in Kabul are part of an ongoing internal rebellion.
--
Do I look like I speak for my employer?
But it seems to me there are also some things that can be done to the planes to make hijackings of this sort all but impossible.
First of all, make it impossible to get from the main cabin to the cockpit. Put a separate outside door on the cockpit and give the cockpit area a dedicated restroom and food storage area. If there's no physical access to the cockpit from the passenger area, it becomes impossible to point a gun at the pilot's head (though one could still take the passengers hostage, of course).
Barring that -- or in addition to that -- all commercial planes should be equipped with live cockpit video feeds from multiple angles, no "off" switch, to allow ground controllers to instantly see if something is going wrong. That alone doesn't prevent hijackings, but it means you'll instantly be able to see which passenger is responsible, and potentially deploy military aircraft to force the plane down before it reaches its destination. It's also useful in non-terrorist situations.
Live video of the passenger cabin is more problematic from a privacy point of view, but again gives you an early warning that something is wrong. It can prevent someone from being able to pop unnoticed into the restroom to disguise themselves (and thus make themselves harder to trace back to terrorist HQ) before taking a hostage or breaking into the cockpit. Personally, I don't really consider myself to be in a private space when I'm on a plane and would have few qualms with video surveillance, especially if it was of the wide-angle, over-the-seattops variety. Hell, you could even subsidize it by adding a couple extra cameras and letting businesspeople hold video conferences.
None of this stops someone from wanting to take over a plane and use it as a missile, which is the real root cause here. But I hope there'll be some consideration of relatively simple preventive measures like these in addition to the calls for strip-searching everyone who gets on a plane.
All flights to/from Tel Aviv (presumably all of Israel, though Ben Gurion is the major airport in Israel) have several (3-5, apparantly) anti-terrorism agents on board to help in case of emergency. If they suspect you of being a terrorist, you're in big trouble. If you are one, they kill you (if possible).
--Dan
Someone else, whose comment I can't seem to find at the moment, asked why this couldn't have been the work for a small group. Looking at most terrorist groups, fielding one terrorist requires a support network of ~50 other people, in varying levels of involvement with the organization. If we assume that there were 3-4 terrorists per plane, that gives us an associated organization of 600-800 people. Please note, this is the size of the logistical support group and involved sympathizers, not the size of the active cadre which is the number usually shown in law enforcement estimates. Also, we're dealing with suicide bombers here (essentially). Suicide bombers are usually isolated for days or weeks immediately preceding their missions, and are closely attended during those days by people who are skilled in psychological manipulation and indoctrination and are able to psych the terrorist up for his mission. This is an activity which requires at least a small handful of people for each terrorist, which is going to leave us again with at least 30-50 people actively complicit in the plot. It's hard to find 12-16 people who are a- suicidal; b-can plan an attack like this and c-can exercise enough self-restraint over a to do b. It's much easier to have a large group do the planning and logistics, and then pull a handful of suicidal or martyrdom-ready individuals from their ranks.
I've said it before: a dozen civilians could hijack a plane with their bare hands. The only protection against mass-suicide hijackings like that is to avoid making enemies. Though locking the cockpit door would help.
A friend of mine (here in Louisville) called a local gas station and was told that the price was $1.65 at the moment, but he had already been given the word that his next increase was taking it to $5.00. I was sitting there when he called.
One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
So the hijackers carried knives on the plane. How you ask? Simple, put it on the bottom of the shoe. Most FAA approved metal detectors DO NOT detect them or they will be ignored if the shoes look like they are steel toed. If the FAA is serious, they will xray shoes of everyone when the planes start up again until they can prove every metal detector works they way they should.
This is well known (I was told about it in about 1987) by a friend who managed to find ways of getting guns through some of the detectors while working as a security guard at an airport.
Call your local FAA FSDO office and ask them about it.
Only problem I see is that he did come back at 4:45pm or so and post again, so all his prophecy is shit. He didn't go away like he said and now he's gonna get his poop inspected with a microscope and some small tweezers because people in the newsgroup have already turned his ass in.
"Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
Early in the morning there was a *single* report of a plane down in Colorado. Since then, I've heard nothing: no corrections, no confirmations, no denial.
NORAD is in Colorado, isn't it? Sound slike an obvious target, even if a plane wouldn't do any damage (it's designed to survive nukes).
Anyone know if a plane did go down?
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
You can hit it here...
I don't subscribe to those sentiments personally, but I have to admit that reading that made me stop, set aside my anger for a moment, and do some serious thinking.
'Life is like a spoonful of Drain-O, it feels good on the way down but leaves you feeling hollow inside'
You know why? Because any passenger on a hijacked plane is going to try to stop the terrorists now.
Before, I think most people would figure, "OK, I'm going to be held hostage, we'll land somewhere, there'll be demands, and if I sit tight, I might survive this."
Now, they'll be thinking more along the lines of "If someone doesn't stop this guy, he'll fly us into a building.." They'll be willing to risk their lives attacking the terrorists, because it's all the chance they have.
A guy with just a knife? When twenty unarmed passengers rush him, how many will he be able to kill before they disarm him? A few, but it's better than everyone dying in a burning wreck.
All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
it's the 'date' that's indicative, as the anniversary of the Camp David Peace Accord.
Ohmigod, it's September 18 already? Where does the time go?
They're not armed for the same reasons that guards in max security prisons aren't -- don't let them steal your gun and use it. A terrorist is more likely to be able to get a gun away from you than you are to be able shoot them.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
September 11th, 2001
Open Letter to US/Americans
I'm not from the US. I'm not from Middle East, nor from any of the parties involved or suspected to be involved in the incidents of this morning.
Although those events are shocking and extremely sad, this letter is not directly about them. It's about what you think about them.
After reading, watching and listening news today, I started to focus on Internet discussion forums. I had reviewed several times the enumeration of facts, so I started to look for the opinion of the PEOPLE.
I was shocked to find (among the pain, grief, and will to help) rage, desire for revenge (I said revenge, which is not the same as justice), and pleas for a war. This letter (I won't hide it) is an intention to change that, through reason. I know you might not change your opinion after reading this, but consider that you have nothing to lose reading it (well, a little time, actually), and I'm saying that you have a lot to win (a slightly better world, if you ask).
First of all, rage won't lead you to a solution, and I think that's plain clear. Even if you think that retalliation is the appropiate response, you probably agree that even retalliation must be planned using brains, not blind rage. If you think about today events, the terrorists that had enough hatred to suicide on a plane are dead (the raging fanatics), while probably the intellectual authors of today crimes (those who use brains) are celebrating their success somewhere else. If you agree that then we have a starting point for discussion.
A lot of people are saying "It's the Palestinians!" "It's the Afgans!" "It's the (Insert your least favorite country here)!". And a whole country is being put at judgement there. But think twice, without the rage. Think it the opposite way. Suppose some US/American hijacks a plane and crashes it over a building in my country. Would you like to have people in my country saying "It was the Americans!"?. Would you like to have the blame put on you? Would you like to return to your home and see that your wife and kids have been murdered by a "retalliation bomber"? Would you like to pay for the crimes someone else comitted?
Well, Palestinians don't like that. Afgans neither. Nor US/Americans. Not Argentinians (if you were wondering where I am from). And it's clear that NOBODY likes it because it's not right, in the more basic forms. It's a feeling so basic that even people with very different visions of the world like you and Palestinians agree on it. And believe: In any country of the world, most people are innocent, harmless people who want to live quietly and in peace, like you. So don't blame a nation. Blame the (probably small) group of people who were behind this, and use the power that your opinion gives to get them found and judged like any criminal. Don't help turn this into a bloodshed where most of the blood belongs to innocent people.
And yes, I'm saying your opinion is power, so use it for good. If you have the democracy you say you have, then that's the way it should be. Terrorism works by using that power you have to turn it to a given goal, that is, turning you into their weapon. Don't be a weapon of the terrorists, don't help them. The way to fight this war it's not to lose our temper, and not start killing people randomly (like some people are starting to think after the outrageous attacks of this morning... remember that war always takes innocent victims). So act quickly, and swiftly, and make sure the responsible for this are punished, but if you start a war against innocent people you'll just gain more enemies than before, and this will never end.
If you believe on what I said, please, spread this message. Consider that the rage and violence I have seen means that the terrorists are already winning. Whoever did this obviously wanted that, so don't give it to them. Keep your power to yourself, and use it to make this a better world
Sincerely,
Daniel F Moisset
dmoisset@arnet.com.ar
When they listed the 4th plane that went down in whatever county, Pennsylvania, they listed it as "whatever CO, Pennsylvania".
Any bets that someone misread it in the heat of news-reporting?
There'd be no point in hijacking a plane over Colorado -- Where would you hit before eveything was grounded? And this damned bastard operation was timed to the second. (Any bets that killing 350 police and firefighters was a node in their plan tree?)
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
Gah! And your source for this info is? I heard no rumour of any 5th plane over the Potomac in any news report. There was the rumoured "Camp David" aircraft, which might have been the Pennsylvania crash, but that was it.
Informative, ha!
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
I did read it. One of those uses for picking your own userid on the front page, to keep track of threads you have participated in.
I seem to remember hearing the same. But he has either aligned himself with the Palestinian cause, or gotten some of them to align themselves with him.
He's allowed to not like US foreign policy. So are the Palestinians. But I have a personal working definition of terrorism, "Military action *directed* against innocents." From that perspective, Washington DC contains legitimate targets. New York City does not, except perhaps naval ships anchored there.
Expressing outrage at US foreign policy by killing thousands of ordinary citizens is kind of like expressing disapproval of the Rodney King verdict by looting stores. Wholly inappropriate.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
I got the date from the news. So if I'm wrong, it's because I didn't look it up to verify. If the 18th is the real date, did they at least sit down together on the 11th?
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Apparently the copy that hit the stands a few days ago contains a picture of the WTC exploding.
Regular psychics? One told a relative of mine to expect a long life. Same relative was run over and killed on the way home from the psychic's studio.
That about sums it up for 99% of them. The other 1% are even more of a worry, the sources of their occasionally-unbelievably-accurate information are highly dangerous.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
A memorial park.
To hell with furthering the arrogance that was these people's excuse to attack us so brutally. To hell with 'bigger better faster more', to hell with 'we will make our new architectural penis even LONGER!'. To HELL with all of that, the posturing, the arrogance, the chest-thumping American machismo that got us in this position. It didn't come from nowhere.
Clear the rubble, bury the countless dead and plant something green- let's have a memorial park.
Just so you know since you apparently have no clue about the Middle East, blaming the Palestinians for the work of Bin Laden is stupid. What others do in your name is not your fault. The Palestinians are a group of people fighting for the right of self-determination. Bin Laden is a millionaire set on plaguing the US for its Middle East policy, which apparently accepts the subjugation of the Palestinian people. People saw one group of cheering Palestinians and drew conclusions. How do you know that those kids didn't spend last night huddled in a corner while Israeli tanks ran through their village with US support? All Arabs are not the same!
What about middle-east political sites hosted in the US? Let's nuke ourselves!
Also... if it's so vulnerable, why haven't you attacked them yourself? Are you a coward or just incompetent?
Finally, what are you hoping to achieve? More civilian suffering? More collateral damage? More excuses for nasties to attack the USA? Try this alternative: get a life.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
I agree - the Taliban has been trying very hard in the past weeks to gain some sort of legitimacy in the eyes of other countries (for example, allowing the imprisoned foreigners from Shelter Now to have foreign non-Muslim lawyers, and trying to set up their trial as an example of how fair Islamic Sharia law is). I would think that a good way to do this would be to change their previous story of "Osama bin Laden is our guest, and we have been given no conclusive evidence that he has commited any crimes, so must presume his innocence and treat him as a guest" to one of "ok, now we have evidence, so he has abused his status as a guest and we will now expel him from the country."
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&frame=right& th=54ab4d241c34e0cc&seekm=3b8fd177%40monitor.lanse t.com
Read here, it looks like one of the hi-jackers might have been posting here. Very strange indeed.
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
that makes sense but why the heck don't they put a real barrier between the pilots and the passenger area? At least in prisons they have solid walls and bars to keep separation...
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Bush has now said that in our retaliatory actions we will make no distinction between the terrorists and those who harbor them, just as the Serbs did. Yes it's awful. Yes it's tragic. That's the nature of terrorism, both on the parts of the terrorists themselves and those who would eradicate them. But we may well have no choice in the matter if we are to prevent this sort of thing from recurring.
Can we make the world a perfectly safe place? No, of course not. But we can make it clear to anyone who would contemplate killing tens of thousands of Americans that if they were to actually do so, they will -- not might, will -- be made to regret it bitterly, a regret that will be shared by anyone who aids them. That will undoubetdly make terrorists think twice about doing such a thing ever again, and make anyone who might harbor them think three times about it.
Before anyone replies with the kind of puerile ramblings that have been modded up today: of course we will find out for sure who was really responsible before we act. Whatever good can be extracted from what it will take to wipe out the organization responsible -- whichever it may be -- will not come from striking at the wrong targets. Obviously it's not the Palestinians, or the Iranians, and probably not Libya either. But they're partying tonight in Iraq, and there seems to be information implicating Osama bin Laden. I do not doubt, given their recent public statements, that the Afghani authorities will back away from Osama in a moment if presented convincing evidence that he is responsible. They had better. No American wants to make innocent people suffer.
But anyone who willingly harbors terrorists is not innocent.
And the brethren went away edified.
Americans in general are generous and helpful (although they do tend to approach this with a we-know-better-than-you attitude), almost as helpful as ``us'' Australians* but the same cannot be said for all American businesses.
You might think that I was talking about Microsoft, but I'm talking about companies like General Electric and Standard Oil, who made World War II possible by funding and supporting Reich war-related research and stockpiling. This is not an isolated incident. Given that the terrorists hit a business centre (and apparently tried for another stock exchange as well), rather than entirely political targets there may be a connection.
Your history is spoon-fed. You need some roughage in your diet.
* who invited the Indonesian Army to joint exercises in Australia, gave them a copy of The Bush Tucker Book, did everything short of laying out a red carpet embossed ``Welcome to South Irian.''
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
The University of Sydney has a short description of the WTC's structure and offer an explanation for why the towers completely collapsed after being struck. The link: www.civil.usyd.edu.au/wtc.htm
What is the inverse of the Matrix?
it may have even been the better choice.
I am glad that you phrased it that way. The thing about history is that when considering alternatives, we will NEVER know for sure. We might not have lost a single man in the invasion of Japan, and not dropped a bomb. On the other hand, we might have lost half a million men, and then had to drop the bomb anyway.
We cannot second guess history. It unfolded only one way, and that's the history we are stuck with. Debating it doesn't do any good, because there's just no way to sort out all the interpretations of what happened. Condemning people of good character for making the best choice they could with the information they had isn't fair to those people. And we will in turn want to be judged fairly by history.
Saying that the bombing of Japan was completely unjustified is just as wrong as saying that we absolutely had to do it to win the war. All we know is that Truman and others sincerely believed that it was so, and they made a tough decision. If that decision does not sit well with us in our (as of Sept. 10th) comfortable armchairs, then all we can do is make our decisions better ones.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
Israel has tried this against the Palestinians -- quick, unbalanced retaliation. It has not brought them any peace or freedom from terrorism. I can see no way they will achieve that unless they annilhilate the entire Palestinian people, though blinded by their desire for vengence many Israelis seem to think that the next bit of violence will resolve something.
That is not a path I would wish the US to follow. Justice does not mean pacifism, but anything brutal, disgusting, and horrible -- as you phrase it -- is not justice. If we value domination over justice, then we will eventually reap our rewards. Perhaps we already have.
God help us.
Here inn the States it will have to be some soret of law enforcement, like the sky-marshals arm of the federal marshall service. Using the military violates the "Posse Comotatas (sp?)" statute.
Skip the fact that the existance of federal cops are not an enumerated power, thus a violation of the constitution itself... hey... maybe ya got a point...
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
They had business as usual, but knocked off very sharpish.
It's been a long-cherished desire for the Pope to control Jerusalem. The EEC/UC would back him (EEC == Europe Entirely Catholic) too. This is unlikely to be the excuse he needs, but wait... there's probably more...
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
>Just so you know since you apparently have no clue about the Middle East
Guilty as charged. I have no clue about the Middle East.
But I think I am at least as well informed as most Americans, and I believe I have a more open mind than most.
So YOUR job is to try and educate me. The news media doesn't help a heck of a lot, and I try to listen to the BBC or NPR for a better balanced picture. (as opposed to the ratings war of network news)
I hear many times of the enlightenment of the Moslem religion, and how they kept the candles of civilization burning during the dark ages with mathmatics, and all that. I also hear that the Moslem religion teaches respect and equal rights for women.
But that's not what I hear or see on the news.
By the same token, I certainly hope you don't base your opinion of Christianity on abortion clinic bombings and the mess in Northern Ireland. I think that at the moment, it's far more enlightening to look at the hours-long lines in front of the blood donation clinics.
I wish PBS woud run (or rerun, now is timely) some sort of documentary on the history and development of the Moslem religion.
I mentioned it once before... More could be done for the Palestinian cause by making an "Unbearable Lightness of Being" type movie, and setting it in the West Bank. Remember that the juxtposition of Three Mile Island and the movie "The China Syndrome" pretty much killed nuclear power construction in the US. In the US, images and concepts have power, violence just makes us mad. You want us to change, try getting our sympathy. You want our sympathy, try helping us understand your plight. But attacking only helps us understand your hatred. (I'll accept that this isn't you personally, but just the general point...)
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
I agree that making it impossible to fly is stupid. Instead it could set off emergency beacons so the ATC would know that it might not be controlled by the pilot.
simple solution.
Back in the olden days you had 1 armed man on every plane. we need to go back to having someone on every plane with a nice high power weapon. first sign of trouble shoot the bastard.
That should also stop most of the idiots on aircraft.
Secondly.. replace the cockpit door with a bulletproof version, and install CS gas dispensers into the passanger cabin. hijack? fill the rear of the plane with CS or BZ gas and land.
there are solutions, we as americans are way to damned lazy to impliment them.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
While I respect what you say, I will be blunt. When you have been so attacked, when you have friends describe to you what it is like to listen over the phone while the colleagues burn alive, then have the line go silent never to ring again, when you have friends who have died en mass, then you may speak to me of turning the other cheak.
We will use our power to create a better world, by exterminating the vermin who are responsible for this atrocity, along with anyone and everywhen who gave them aid or comfort. We may feel guilty afterwords, and will certainly be an easy target for a world with an uneasy conscience that will cry loudly against our actions while secretly breathing a sigh of relief that someone did what needed to be done, but in the end the world will be a better place, and those that did this will cease to exist.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Just wait and see how the government overreacts. Bush is already using this to increase his defense budget and now the FAA will enact some silly security proceedures. Not that all are silly, just that what was already in place seemed to have worked, it's just that it never dawned on them that a plane would be used as a weapon.
I remember that one guy hijacked a plane with a vile of water. He said it was nitro glycerine. The only way to prevent this is to secure the controls of the airplanes. That is it. If hijackers knew that the passengers would NOT let them take control, could this even happened?
Doubtful. Too bad the proceedures that will be put in place will do more damage to the economy then as already been done by adding hours and days onto mail and passenger deliveries.
IMO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
I'm not singling you out, I'm reacting to MANY people I've seen who have just the same opinion- "make newer bigger towers because it symbolizes our way of life!". Maybe, in the context of the larger world, it symbolizes our way of death, and damn straight it symbolizes to most of the rest of the world, 'we can kick your ass, look how rich and powerful we are'. I'm not okay with perpetuating that, and so my notion of what should be done is to turn the site into a memorial park INSTEAD of more towers.
That would not be a rejection of our way of life- because the WTC did NOT really represent our way of life. It represented a particular tendency we as Americans have- and I think we need to consider exactly what that means rather than just charge even more determinedly along the path that has led us to this.
It's your job to educate yourself. I base my knowledge of Christianity on the fact that I am a Christian born and raised in the middle of Arkansas. I base my knowledge of the Middle East and Islam from READING. Pick up a book, skip the movies.
Contemplate the founding of Israel. Where did it come from? Why did it form? What was there before? What happened to the people that were there before? The answers are important. European and American anti-Semitism combined with disregard for the "Palestinians" led to the creation of Israel. Israeli policy and racism combined with Arab anger and racism led to a powder-keg. Both sides are culpable.
Oppressed people fight back. Both Israel and Palestine believe they are oppressed, as indeed they are.
Many other big names were and presumably are involved in such deals.
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Sorry, but this mirror is now down...
Nothing to see here