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Next-Gen Apples To Include 1394b, USB 2.0
seletz writes: "According to this article on The Register, Apple will ship its next-generation PowerMacs with USB 2.0 and double FireWire.
USB 2.0 boosts data transfer up to 480Mbps, FireWire 1394b goes up to 3.2Gbps." It may seem a minor point, but the more and faster connections are built in, the less frequently the upgrade gremlins have to strike. 3.2Gbps!
but there are three stories on the main page and nobody has posted replies to any of them. Anybody know why?
Curious,
-NeoTomba
this is old stuff... macNN (a rather silly mac site) had this a week ago. Shouldn't you be announcing flat panel iMacs ? Anyway, its pure bollocks : G5 procs aren't coming out in another 1.5 years. It's the G4 story all over again. They were announced 2 years early, came out at an insane price tag and lowerer MHz than expected, and stuck to a MHz barrier for 2 years. Apple should buy out Moto sommerset facilities and rent them to IBM. That might help a bit.
When will I end this grieving ? When will my future begin ?
So now the mouse will have the bandwidth to have more than one button?
Actually, it will be nice to have the speed for video editing on external harddrives without having to use a firewire one.
The worst terrorist attack in recorded history occurred less than 2 weeks ago and you people are talking about Apple's next-generation PowerMacs with USB 2.0 and double FireFire?!?! My GOD, people, GET SOME BLOODY PRIORITIES!
You people make me sick. I hope when America goes after the people responsible for this, they take out a few nerf toy playing, lego building, video game buying faggot little 5-year-old acting geeks as well.
GROW THE FUCK *UP*, PEOPLE. GET A FUCKING LIFE, GEEKS!
Probably takes someone like Apple to be the first to make boxes with USB 2.0 and 1394b. Hopefully, PCs will have them too, in a not-too-distant future.
From what I remember (from the distant 20th century), Apple where first with "regular" USB too. Some PC:s had it (I had an old pentium MB with a USB bracket (sold separately)), but noone where able to use it (no drivers or hardware).
Think it was the same with FireWire too.
Why is this? Are Apple more daring and adventureous than all PC manufacturers? Or is it because noone wants to spend money on a technology that might not be "wanted" (meaning: Windows won't support it)?
There are 010 kinds of people. Those who understand octal, those who don't, and 06 other kinds of morons.
Hands up anybody who cares about this.
flamebait all over... yet another cnn addict.
When will I end this grieving ? When will my future begin ?
I don't think Apple supporting USB 2.0 is going to make the technology be worth the effort. Realistically if Ms doesn't add the support to the OS what manufacturers are going to create USB 2.0 items?
I think the bigger effect here might be seeing real processing power from the G5s and DDR. Its been way to long for the powerpc to remain so far back in the "apparently important" mhz race.
Still, I don't think faster interfaces mean diddly when it comes to upgrading PCs, my PCs get upgraded when the components inside, meaning processor and memory, cannot be upgraded to sufficient levels for what I need to run... (stuff outside the computer has a tendency to get upgraded when it developes legs of its own)
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
I am an electronic musician, and just recently purchased an EOL dual g4 450.
:-)
This almost makes me wish I would have been a little more patient. With as much bandwidth as these new mac's will have, one could reasonable expect to be able to master full surround dvd's without even spiking processor usage. I'm glad to see that apple is still innovating on the technical end. It's this type of innovation that reminds me why I use a mac for all things music
If you are at all interested in my music, click on my link above!
Moderators: you should browse at 0. I may have made some dumb ass comments in the past, but I frequently have something worthwhile to say. Take a look!
Shouldn't 1394b ("double FireWire") be FireFireWireWire and not just FireFire?
The speed of the bus in a computer is a big point these days. Processors and RAM are getting so fast that now the limiting factor on overall speed is the device that moves data around in a computer: the bus.
~ now you know
You mean FireWire?
I suppose double Firewire could be FireFireWireWire..
T.
I heard from a co-worker late last week that Apple was laying off quite a few employees. Can anyone confirm this? It seems rather odd that a company that (according to some Mac/iMac users that I know) releases "such a great product" would be cutting their work force by so much.
I know a lot of Apple users, and I know a lot of Windows/Linux users, and each of them love their own systems, but the other thing that I can't understand is how Apple can stay in business when their computers cost a hell of a lot more than the Intel based PCs? I was pricing laptops a couple weeks ago, and for the money it would have cost me to buy a moderately loaded iMac, I could have gotten a Thinkpad for roughly half the cost, comparably equipped. Do Mac/iMac users have money to burn? If so, send me some. My wife says my daughter needs an exer-saucer.
And they said zombies weren't real!
No Macs. They use Intel based desktop systems running Windows.
Makes you wonder about the viability of PPC and Apple.
Remember too that SuSE and some others have PowerPC versions of Linux for these boxes as well. Imagine Linux on this? Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these?
Laws affecting technology will always be bad until enough techies become lawyers.
Although I'd like to believe the story and wish it were true, I don't think we'll be seeing any G5s until this time next year at the very earliest.
Moto have a topnotch chip design unit, but their fabs suck big time and can't produce the chips in large enough quantities
I piss on Mecca. I wipe my ass with the Koran. I spit upon Mohammed.
these benifits are offset nicely by the fact you have to run OS X on the damned thing.
Ever use it? It's like driving a speedboat through mud.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
Macs fucking suck... windows is the way to go... bill gates may be a dick, but at least his operating system doesn't crash that much... win-2000, which I have been running for months hasn't crashed once... whaddya think of dat you lame-mac users! In fact I'll pit my win2000 server against any ofya's crappy linux operating systems ANY DAY... come get some sucka!
Dev is AIX, Solaris, and Linux
I don't quite believe this rumor, but let's just suppose its true.
Apple would be including USB 2.0 and faster firewire (800 Mbps, not 3.2 Gbps), for two reasons. First, it would be accomodating a standard that many peripheral manufacturers would be supporting for LOW speed hardware. Second, it would be including it to showcase Firewire's supremecy as a HIGH speed interface.
Remember, Intel has bee trying to market USB 2.0 as a FireWire killer. Everybody knows that the 480 Mbps spec. makes 1394's 400 Mbps look slower. Unfortunately for Intel, USB is a poorly hacked technology which is not capable of producing real-world results of this speed. Theoretically, it works this fast, until you add a slow device like a mouse or keyboard, peripherals which predominate the USB connected equipment today.
Actually, they might use USB 2.0 for some integrated telephony and modem type devices, as that is what USB was originally developed for.
Primarily, Apple would include the technology to maintain a pool of peripherals, since 2.0 devices will not work on 1.x buses. It will not be able to replace FireWire for high speed stuff, so they wouldn't be dropping 1394, even to save a few bucks on low-end models, since the "Digital Hub" requires high speed DV capabilities.
-- Len
Yes, it's most likely that Apples next revision of hardware will include USB 2.0 and IEEE 1394b (Firewire 2.0?). However, 3.2Gbs is not the number.
The next step for Firewire is actually 800Mbs. 1.2Gbs, 2.8Gbs and 3.2Gbs speeds are possible with this new protocol though, given the use of copper and fiber for the physical connection.
What I find more interesting, though, is that the next revision of PowerMac should sport some form of DDR SDRAM... and either the new "Apollo" G4 at around 1.2GHz or the brand new 64bit capable G5! Both Bandwidth Hungry CPUs... that should give the P4 and Palomino (?) a run for their money.
RSN
I can get THIS through the lameness filter.
BUT NOT WHAT I ACTUALLY WANTED TO POST.
What the fuck is wrong with Slash, with the editors' anti-censorware bullshit ?!?
It may seem a minor point, but the more and faster connections are built in, the less frequently the upgrade gremlins have to strike. 3.2Gbps!
Yeah, I remember back in '89 when I upgraded to a 40MB hard drive and said the same thing. The upgrade gremline will never stop striking!
Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?
Several places are accepting pre-orders for at least one model of a 1394b/USB2 mac.
Sorry but Apple's overall head count has been increasing. While Dell, HP, Compaq, and so on have been laying off literally thousands of employees Apple has laid off 50 or so. But they've hired more than 50 or so in that same period.
Apple has over $4.2 billion in the bank. When Steve Jobs originally took over they had like $200some million.
Apple is an extremely efficient company these days. When their CFO last spoke recently (about a month or so ago) he remarked that they had their inventory down to 2 days. Apple is efficient for the same reason Dell is efficient: excellent inventory management.
There are also a number of major factors which are working toward's Apple's favor. OS X 10.1 is coming out and within the next year virtually all of the major applications will be converted to OS X. Because of its UNIX and NeXT roots and Java capabilities OS X appeals to a much wider crowd than Mac OS 9. Also, while Apple has languished somewhat with their G4 processors (2000 was not a good year) Apple will actually be in a better position going forward with the G5. The G5 is 64-bit and also runs existing 32-bit Macintosh applications. While the Wintel world will be split between the Itanium, P4, and the AMD Sledgehammer architectures, the Macintosh will on one chipset architecture.
Apple most certainly won't be crushing the Wintel world but they will most certainly continue to survive and yes, thrive in the marketplace.
Oh, and the founder/creator of IEEE 1394, darn it I can't remember his name, said recently in a report on CNET that 1394b products will be shipping by the end of the year. So an Apple intro at MWSF in January, or Tokyo in February makes the most sense.
looking down the road at new hardware and faster versions of X (10.1), this will be true for almost nobody. And, right now, throw enough RAM at it and X is great on anything > 400MhZ. And, on my dual processor g4 OS X doesn't feel slow at all, not when running native apps and not running Photoshop, Quark, and Illustrator.
Think for a second - which comes along more often: revolutionary OS design, or astounding hardware advances? We've gotten used to the hardware improving by leaps and bounds, without really having too much other than games that can take advantage of this. Now there is an OS that really does combine the ease of the Mac OS with the strength and versatility of UNIX, and so we've had to wait a few months for the hardware to catch up to it. Whats the slowest Mac these days?
Lynn Edward Harris, born Lynn Elizabeth Harris, 09/13/50 at 6:12 p.m. P.D.T. in the city of Orange, California, USA, south of the Los Angeles County line.
On November 8th, 1973 at age 23 Harris was clinically diagnosed by a team of specialists as possessing a rare, complex, congenital condition known as "True Hermaphroditism" [Intersex] with undescended, sub-sized ovotestes i.e. "gonadal mosaicism" found in approximately 1-in-25,000 births. [Statistic source: New England Journal of Medicine, 01/14/98.]
Due to ambiguously-formed genitalia at birth [stunted penis; divided scrotum; and vagina], Harris, (mal)assigned "female" by both parents and pediatrician, was raised as such and continued living in said social gender role until age 29 (1979) --- six years after the disclosure of this fixed, irreversible, yet-evolving biological state.
After puberty, minor neurological problems eventually abated. Sexual development remained at a pubertal level while naturally-occurring virilization of secondary characteristics compounded. As Harris' anatomy had developed clearly along non-female lines i.e. no breasts, no milk glands, no child-bearing hips, no menses, sterility; early beard growth, male vocal chords, male skeletal structure, male musculature, male libido, male genetic patterning, he felt justified to elect to live full-time in the male social gender role beginning February, 1979.
For the following four years (1979 to 1983) he lived in a sexual legal limbo, still carrying the original-and-only, valid female I.D. which now appeared both obsolete and fraudulent. On numerous occasions when asked for proof of identification, he was accused of strangely utilizing a 'counterfeit' or 'stolen' I.D. card belonging to some woman.
Desire for a permanent legal remedy to rectify all I.D., thus making it consistent with his outward persona, had become crucial. The subject approached the Superior Court, County of Los Angeles, wrote his own petition and pled his own case for 1) a change of middle name from "Elizabeth" to "Edward"; and 2) a re-issued birth certificate changing the sex designation from "female" to "male".
Based upon his unusual, documented medical history, on February 18, 1983 the Court, realizing the case had merit, granted the two-part request by favorably adjudicating Case # 437625. With the judge's signature, Lynn Elizabeth Harris no longer existed: She had become a legal non-entity.
Within a 30-day grace period following the Court proceeding, said change was registered as legally required with the Social Security Administration, the Secretary of State, and the State Registrar of Vital Statistics. State and public agencies, intended to function as "subservient" to the courts, are obligated to enforce and comply with all rulings as handed down.
In a blatant and unconscionable fashion the Vital Statistics Branch dared to supersede the Superior Court and rejected the simple filing of the matter because -- as was stipulated in their California Health and Safety Code -- 'no plastic surgeon's affidavit of surgery had accompanied the approved, submitted petition.'
However, within said code, no clause existed which mandated one's person to 'go under the knife' in order to obtain "characteristics of the opposite sex" -- whatever they may be. Since any type of "sex reassignment" surgical procedure to define his ambiguous anatomy had never been his objective at any time, in his petition Harris -- even after having investigated the pros and cons -- disavowed any need for possible risk of mutilation, disfigurement, and / or rejection of foreign implants. Unequivocally, Lynn Edward Harris had proven to the Court -- but not to the Sacramento bureaucrats who, then, deigned to issue an amended Birth Certificate reading "Lynn Edward Harris" / "Female" -- that Nature had bestowed upon him "characteristics of the opposite sex" from birth.
Harris, denigrated by this mockery of his civil status, was already making preparations to sue the state and / or approach an Appellate Court for enforcement of his case which had seen prior favorable adjudication.
After a four-month delay, the Chief of the Vital Statistics Branch fully recanted and admitted to having mis-handled the filing from the start. Finally, the preferred middle name combined with, not an amended, but a brand new Certificate of Live Birth with sex designation listed as "male" was formally issued on June 2, 1983. All records of the original female middle name and female birth certificate from 1950 were permanently frozen and sealed for life.
This case, which the Vital Statistics Branch could never define in their terms as having "an opposite sex," has gone uncontested and unchallenged by other bureaucratic, legal, and medical authorities. Subsequently, Harris is presumed to have set the landmark or legal precedent in California, if not the nation, of one's obtaining a legal sex revision without benefit of any cosmetic or reconstructive "sex reassignment"-type surgery.
Further details are outlined in Harris' copyrighted [as yet unpublished] autobiographical manuscript, "More Lives Than One".
Harris has become a pioneer / spokesman for Intersex freedoms and transgender social justice; an advocate for a moratorium on surgeons' gratuitous, so-called "corrective" or "normalizing" genital operations, customarily performed on Intersexed neonates before they reach an age to render informed consent --- unless dramatic genital ailments or malformations (often caused by life-threatening metabolic disorders) are present and surgery is warranted. Genital modification is not a panacea. It could facilitate one's "apparent" social sex (re)classification on paper; but it could never automatically revamp ones "actual" or "true" (often inconsistent and conflicting) chromosomes, genes, gonadal composition, glandular / hormonal output, overall brain circuitry and, in turn, one's inherent gender identification and sexual proclivity.
Mr. Harris and his case since garnered publicity and media exposure in six different countries and now appears on the world wide web. He has also amassed over 100 credits as a widely-published author, collaborator and contributor of articles in academic textbooks, journals, anthologies, and popular books in the burgeoning field of Human Sexuality; and as a guest lecturer / panelist at universities, colleges, medical trade seminars, private sector organizations; and on nationally-syndicated radio and television programs.
Lynn Edward Harris is single, resides in Los Angeles, California, leads a mainstream lifestyle and is a devotee of all classic arts, cultural events, antiques, travel, and metaphysics.
Isn't that repetitively redundant?
"I'm a man... But I can change... If I have to... I guess..." -- the man's prayer, Red Green Show
Maybe not compression, but perhaps stealth geese?
Hiya,
I week ago I got to check out a friend's iBook - the new ultra-portable white polycarbonate model. The engineering was fantastic, you have to understand this thing weighed around 2KG or less and had a 1024x768 12" screen, twin USB, single Firewire, 500 Mhz G3 CPU, 128MB RAM, 8MB ATI Rage128 Mobility graphics, single DVD-ROM inbuilt. 3 year warranty too. All for around AUD$3,500 - which is very competitive to an equivalent Dell-brand machine. My friend uses it for office work and DV video editing.
The workmanship appeared to be top notch when I checked it out. Specs are one thing, but when you check it out you get the impression of a very well built machine.
Pizza Pizza!
+ Donald Gunth
+ Email: dgunth@quicktek.net
"Caffeine is the greatest lubricant ever created." -ESR
"Next-Gen Apples To Include 1394b, USB 2.0"
When I saw this, I didn't know what to think. How can an apple be edible with all these new ports? Is Granny Smith going Hi Tech?
13 year old white supremacists are shitty web designers.
I like to think of old 3.5 inch disks, with 1.4 MB on each. The new double FireWire will be like shooting 2,000 disks a second through a wire. Blazing. Slung from a sling shot, that is 2kHz. Listening to this, the band on the shot would sound like a high note on a violin. (440 hertz is assigned the note middle A)
For those of you who have never used FireWire, it is amazing, especially compared to USB and SCSI. The ease of hot-plugging is astounding, not to mention the data transfer. For example, I recently copied files from one PowerBook (Mac laptop) to another, with one laptop acting as a hard disk ("FireWire Disk Mode"). Boy does it fly. Megabytes of files flew though that cable. There seems to be much more than the raw speed of the protocol, the CPU, bus, etc., are all vital, and on these newer computers, the speed is impressive.
Apple's engineering may be better, but for that price, it damn well better be. Think of it like this - for the same price as Apple is offering I can buy 2 additional SPARE laptops just sitting by in case the one I have breaks down.
And no, I'm not saying Compaq is the way to go. What I am saying is that if you're interested in price/performance ratios, Apple does not do too well - especially when you consider the main uses of PCs for the majority of people - browsing the web, office documents and some games.
I'm sure most Mac fans would love to have gigahertz G5s with DDR and FireWire 2. But there really is not a clamor of interest in USB 2, and I don't see a reason to include it.
USB 2's entire purpose is to compete with Apple's own 1394 standard. USB2 is slower, uses more CPU resources, and has done surpisingly poorly in the marketplace. FireWire devices outnumber USB2 by huge proportions.
Apple knows that iMac (which had no legacy ports) is the event that got USB 1.x rolling. That was a good move, since Apple needed to get with standards. But in FireWire, Apple has set the standard. Adding USB2 would have little benefit and a lot of risk for Apple.
I kind of like that. Double-fast FireWire=FireFire.
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
Unfortunately, that comparison is not accurate...
:)
Your PC-laptop will far outweigh my iBook and when you find the lighter PC-laptops they both cost more and usually for an external optical drive on you. Mine has built-in DVD-ROM and a firewire port which is very useful for video editing (Something important if you are interested in it). Also, if you want Mac OS X (which I am very impressed with), then there is only one choice
Plus it has built in ethernet and an internal antenna for an internal wireless add-on card.
There is no definitive winner, it is all about what is important to you. I wanted a light laptop that could handle video editing, games, and one that would just work. Apple has done that while besting the equivalent sized PC-laptop in terms of price and features...
Bill
It should also be mentioned that your average non-techie computer user is likely to feel more comfortable plugging in cable than a card. As the computer becomes a comodity item, then more and more of your stuff will be plugging in from the outside, unless you are a techie and then you will insist on putting everything inside because it takes less room and because there are less wires.
Actually, I'd suspect integration would be the order of the day. Joe User neither knows nor cares what a hard drive is, or a graphics card. The more things that are "just *there*", the more comfortable the average user will likely feel.
The average user probably won't ever upgrade any one part of the machine; they'll just dump the old machine and buy a new one, especially when computers come closer to being commodity items. The only cables needed would likely be for things that the user doesn't consider part of the computer.
"It may seem a minor point, but the more and faster connections are built in, the less frequently the upgrade gremlins have to strike."
Yet another reason the industry hates Apple. They build their computers to last, even moreso than other manufacturers.
I know there's an itanium version and one for 64bit power4 or whatever the big ibm's are running, but would there be a g5 64 bit linux in january?
Howls of derisive laughter, Bruce! Read his message - AUD $3500 is _Australian_ dollars. The Basic iBook is US $1300 for 64MB/10GB/DVD-ROM/2xUSB/100Mbps-Ethernet, so it is much closer to the Compaq price range, but the hardware is sooooooo much nicer.
He doesn't ALWAYS get it right (no cursor keys on the original Mac; REALLY REALLY slow on built-in hard drives) but he does have opinions, and they're often sound opinions, and he ACTS on them. Macs have a lot of good ideas in them and some bad ideas in them, but at least they have IDEAS.
"They all laughed" at 3-1/2" diskettes (yes, HP was the first to use them but it was Apple's adoption that was the breakthrough). Apple was the first MAINSTREAM adopter of SCSI. I don't remember for sure, but I think Apple beat most PC vendors by about six months with affordable built-in CD-ROM drives.
Apple had built-in audio support in 1984 when most PC's couldn't do anything but beep (or make joke noises, like the "drain.exe" application).
Apple started out without color support at all, and by 1988 had actually pulled far ahead of the mainstream PC display hardware.
Firewire is a Good Thing. Its adoption by Apple was no surprise, since Apple had so much to do with its creation; actually the surprise was that it was delayed so long.
Probably the biggest surprise to me was to see Apple lead the way in USB.
Some people are pointing out that the revised Firewire spec only supports 800mbps over the existing twisted pair cables, but does anyone know of how the rev can be implemented? Is there the possibiliy of a backwards compatible combination twisted pair/optical plug, or can two plugs service the same port? This might mean that new macs might have an optical plug in addition, which would be very cool (and fast).
Reliable, Great Value Hosting: $7.95/mo 2.4G/120G
AUSTRALIAN DOLLARS YOU PITIFUL FUCKNUT! do you have some kind of literacy deficiency?
http://www.zayante.com/p1394b/
As I read it, the new spec provides for speeds up to 1.6 Gbps (with room to grow to 3.2 Gbps), 100 Mbps on UTP out to 100m, 200 Mbps on Plastic Optical Fibre (POF) to 50m, 1.6 Gbps on MultiMode Fibre (MMF) out to 100 m.
So I don't know where they got this "room to drive data at up to 3.2Gbps over copper cabling" thing.
anyone know if this will/already supports networking over firewire?
and if so...Imagine a beow...
"The Most Fun Possible on 4 wheels" is at SunBuggy in Las Vegas
So by that do you mean that Macs are for people of a more 'loose' nature?
Maybe you mean that Macs are for 'loose' women? Or maybe you just mean that Macs are for promiscuous people in general?
Please enlighten us.
Geez, get it right if you're going to bait Macolytes.
--Nik
Hey look kids another /. drone that doesn't know shit about apple.
Firewire is better, but the USB 2.0 devices I've looked at say that they also work on a USB 1.x connection, albeit at a slower speed (obviously). It would appear not be the case that "2.0 devices will not work on 1.x buses". Maxtor, for example, has USB 2.0 products that say they are backwardly compatible with 1.x USB ports.
--- What?
I wish I could buy a whole new computer every time Apple made an improvement!
At the same time, you can also play around with MacOS X, which is honestly the one OS which has made me ditch Linux entirely. I get the same robust server applications (Samba, Apache, MySQL and PHP, namely), a much better integrated GUI than any window manager has managed (pun intended) to build, and access to thousands of useful day-to-day applications.
Really, as a part-time Linux geek (and platform agnostic -- which means I like Macs because they're better **grin**), MacOS X is the best OS since sliced bread, and if you want a Linuxy laptop, get an iBook just for the chance to try it out!
In all other regards, an iBook is going to be comparable to a PC laptop when running Linux, but for standard configuration differences. Linux-PPC runs lightning quick on it, though.
Author's note: I'm experienced with running Linux on an original iBook, but I'm assuming device support for the latest models. Let the buyer beware and check the documentation.
--Nik
Harddrives are limiting the computer even more than the Bus.
> 3.2Gbps!
One point twenty one jiggawats?! What the hell is a jiggawatt?!
DrPascal: Not the language, the mathematician.
When I said that they wouldn't work, I meant to say that they wouldn't work well. My understanding is that USB 2.0 adds peer-to-peer connection ability that was not in 1.x. 1.x requires a master computer.
Additionally, 1.x has the embarrassing problem of the differing protocol implementations for the host controller, UHCI vs. OHCI. Embarrassing because the "founding members" of the USB consortium used differing (not 100% compatible) host controller interfaces, the real reason that USB was doomed from the start on the PC. USB 2.0 having peering ability would certainly conflict with both of these controllers.
Microsoft wrote their drivers to the OHCI standard, while Intel flooded the world with their UHCI based chipsets. Great cooperation.
Anyway, I stand by my previous statement, as most USB 2.0 marketers are going to want to trumpet their new features, which will be lacking when their devices are connected to USB 1.x buses. Peer-to-Peer was in FireWire from the beginning.
-- Len
I'm running off of KDE 2.2.1 and it slaughters the currently OSX, i dont know if its better than OSX 10.1 or whatever its called, but I'm sure KDE and Enlightenment will kick its ass before its even released.
I know a lot of Apple users, and I know a lot of Windows/Linux users, and each of them love their own systems, but the other thing that I can't understand is how Apple can stay in business when their computers cost a hell of a lot more than the Intel based PCs?
<disclaimer> I hardly use Macs any more because I have to work with and support Windows users </disclaimer>
If you actually worked for a while on a Macintosh you would probably be willing to pay a premium.
Neal Stephenson once compared OS vendors to car dealerships. He was concerned with the marketing of OSs rather than the user experience. Imagine instead a business where you go to have an experience -- say a dance hall which provided guests with professional dance partners.
The Apple-land dance hall had beautiful hostesses who danced so gracefully they made an ordinary jerk feel like Fred Astaire. The Microsoft-land dance hall had ugly hostesses who stepped on your feet unless you shouted directions to them for where to put their feet. The owners of the Microsoft-land had managed to prosper in business by convincing its customers that real men had loud voices, but they knew this couldn't last forever. So they replaced the ugly hostesses with prettier ones that also stepped on your feet. And it didn't matter, because in time people got so accustomed to this that they think it's normal to buy throat lozenges when you go dancing.
The Unix-land dance hall? It is chock full of ugly but muscular hostesses that will have sex with you if you know the right way to ask. The ones in the Linux and the BSD rooms will even do it for free (in the Solaris room, you have to pay if you want more than eight girls at once). The fact is that Unix started out as bordello and added dancing as a gimmick. As a result the dancing is a bit awkward, but you can get any kind of sex you can imagine, provided you can master the technique. As you might imagine, this has attracted a loyal customer base.
But the management's been trying bring in new business by dolling up the girls and teaching them a few new steps.
The Apple-land customers who wander in to the "new" Unix-land are dance snobs who look around, decide the dancing isn't up to snuff, and go back to Apple-land to cut a rug. This mystifies the regulars, who say, "Some of our hostesses look just as good as the Apple ones, maybe better! They'll even let you dress them up any way you like!" (This last point is a common fetish with the Unix crowd). Of course the Unix-land regulars really only come for the sex. These days most Unix-land customers spend a little time dancing, but they aren't very demanding about that and don't let it distract them from their real interests for long. For that reason they don't understand that for the Apple market segment, the core experience isn't about sex. The Apple experience is about gliding over an expanse of mirror polished bakelite floor with a responsive partner who can almost read your thoughts. It's a wonderful thing -- almost as good as sex (OK I'm a Unix guy). For the Apple-lander, it's nice that the girls are pretty, maybe even essential, but it is not enough.
Having good looking hostesses is not core to the Unix-land experience either -- it's more of a competitive bullet-mark. The Unix-land crowd's a pretty relaxed judge of pulchritude. For years the standard management trick was to stick a polka dot dress and yellow bow on a one-eyed bull dog. Many of the customers judged the results to be "real purty.."
Of course, those days are over (except for a few incorigble retrograde types who cannot be persuaded to give up their dogs). Now when the Microsoft customer wanders in,he looks around and is maybe impressed by how much better the hostesses look than he expected. But he also sees that by in large his usual crowd isn't there, and usually heads out. The Unix-land regulars are puzzled by this. Why would anyone walk out on sex, especially when you can get fairly sophisticated sex for free? Again, it is because the core experience for the Windows-land market segment is not about sex; nor is it about dancing. It is akin to the schooling instincts of fish. There is safety in numbers -- the sharks won't be able to eat all of us at once etc. Everyone has a little bit of this instinct in them. This is why the Microsoft-land dominated press likes to spread rumors about the imminent closing of Apple-land. But by now the remaining Apple-land regulars have heard this story so much they're pretty much immune. In fact the clever ones probably start buying Apple stock when the rumors reach fever pitch.
So, there you have it. Why the typical Apple customer is willing to pay some premium for Apple hardware.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Apple has something like 5% market saturation. The widespread use of USB means that peripheral makers can FINALLY make the same mouse, keyboard or what have you for Macs and PCs without Mac users getting all irate. FireWire has the same ambitions, and while it has a little ways to go, the growing popularity of 1394-enabled digital video cameras bodes VERY well for this interface. That's really what it was meant to accomplish; hard drive connectivity is an added bonus.
And now competitors are looking to release USB 2.0. If, and that's still an IF, other manufacturers decide to move to it, then Apple stands to lose royalties from FireWire. But if they do, it makes sense for Apple to already have it installed on their popular machines. It makes the Mac more marketable, because they can say it will connect with any USB 2.0 peripherals no matter when they arrive. If PCs have these additional ports and Apple doesn't, it's one more strike against the Mac market.
Yes, Apple will lose royalties from FireWire if developers move to it. But do you seriously think that Apple refusing to support USB 2.0 will stop developers from wanting it? "Oh no, a tiny sliver of the peripheral-buying public won't be able to use our stuff! Whatever shall we do?" Exactly what they usually do, which is not care about Apple users one way or the other.
FireWire has a huge head start on USB 2.0, especially in the digi-vidicam market. And while that doesn't guarantee anything, it does mean that USB has to promise a lot more to beat it out. Meanwhile, Apple stands to lose more in lost hardware sales by NOT supporting USB 2.0 than it stands to gain in royalties. Economically, it's a sound and sensible move.
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Why wreck a perfectly excellent machine by installing Linux on it when you can run OS X?
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you are a douchebag troll whore.
just bought my sister an imac to replace a centris 650 i bought in 1992.
the centris is running, but it's down to one internal hard drive and rather than wasting gigabytes of storage on a machine with limited capabilities, i got a flower power on the cheap. add one gig and it will last into the next decade.
guess the standard slashdotter will sustain half a dozen motherboard gashes in that time, but i have enough scars.
i promptly got rid of my mac keyboard AND mouse when I got my G4: I have a MacAlly keyboard and a MICROSOFT Intellimouse Explorer! can't live without multiple buttons!
Powerbook G4/1.5GHz 12", Toshiba Satellite 1135-S1554
Why won't PowerMacs use DDR-200 (equiv. SDR-400) or DDR-266 (equiv. SDR-532) MHz? Those kinds have been available for over a year, and achieve 3.2 and 4.2 GHz.
FireNet 2.0 is a third party software package that support AFP over TCP/IP through Firewire. So yes, it's been done.
Guns don't kill people - bullets do!
Mac VS DOS, Mac VS Windoze, Mac VS Linux/BSD/Solaris/Whatever. Same unoriginal rant, same envious anger.
3.2Gb/s sounds nice. . .it translates to about 400MB/s. . .but with a 32-bit 33Mhz PCI bus that would be restricted to AT MOST 133MB/s.
:(.
Everyone seems focused on reducing the memory, CPU or peripherial bottlenecks, however the biggest bottleneck I keep running accross is the PCI bus -- especially with storage.
I wish more vendors (especially PC mobo makers) would embrace a faster bus such as 64-bit 66Mhz PCI (which would kick it up to 532MB/s and be able to handle 1394b). Sun and DEC have been using it for years, however since mobo makers don't like it there aren't many cards for it.
I find it ironic that wires outside of the box are now faster then those hard-wired on the mobo
My own experience of Apple is that by the time the thing comes down to a sensible price, it's no longer supported, and will not run current OSes or software.
I know, I shouldn't feed the trolls, but --
I assume by "current OSes" you mean the lickable goodness that is Mac OS X. The oldest supported machine for this, as far as I know, is the desktop model G3 powermac.
Available from a reseller, macofalltrades.com, this unit costs $499 and includes a USB card. So there's all the legacy ports, USB -- pretty much everything you need except FireWire. 128 megs of RAM and a 4 gig drive, not huge, but definitely usable.
(And these guys aren't that cheap compared to the Pricewatch fodder people usually post here. I just thought of them because my main machine is a refurbed iMac I bought from them last year and they do splendid work.)
On ebay, on the other hand, a G3 desktop goes for about half that. (As I write this, there is an auction for the same machine with 64 meg of RAM ending in four hours, currently at 202.50)
Throw in some standard memory (say, an extra 256 megs for 40 dollars or so) and a bigger drive if you want one, and you've got a machine that runs anything Apple sells.
Traditionally, things haven't been this way, so I do understand the "Apples are expensive" knee-jerk response. But the pace of speed bumps and upgrades from Apple in the last couple of years has really made items on the used and refurb markets very attractive from a price point of view.
--saint
As a former USB 1.x developer, OHCI vs UHCI has nothing to do with the compatabilty of end devices. A keyboard will work the same for both implementations.
The difference lies in how the chip handles the USB "packets" in reagrds to DMA. OCHI slapps the "packets" into memory in a different fashion then the UHCI controllers -- much like different ethernet cards handle DMA differently. The main difference is in parsing the data streams.
BTW UHCI is the "intel" implementation, and ohci was the implementation of a consortium led by Compaq.
OHCI vs UHCI is much like the DEC 21143 vs the 3com 3c905b for ethernet -- both work with any other ethernet device and the fact that there is more then one ethernet card out there has not doomed ethernet. Same with USB.
Firewire isn't just an interface for DV and drives. Scanners, the heart of my digital photo operation, are moving to Firewire. And, since Macs are so much better for all aspects of the digital photo workflow, most notably the photoshop, having a wicked fast (and much more stable than scsi) connection for scanners is very important. I'd be willing to bet the next generation of Nikon film scanners will utilize the new firewire.
Where did you find a Compaq laptop with those specs for under $1000? I went laptop shopping recently and couldn't find anything with DVD for under $1000.
Also, the size & weight of the iBook put it in the premium priced sub-notebook class. The discount priced (under $1200) notebooks on the market are all considerably bigger & heavier. The iBook is also the only offering in its class with an internal optical drive, which is a very compelling feature but does make the iBook a bit thicker and heavier than most of the competing sub-notebook models.
The base iBook is US $1299 with 64MB and a CD drive. The DVD model is $1499 and comes with 128MB. The only competitor in its size/weight class that is priced close to the iBook is the Dell Inspiron 2100. The sub-notebook models from all the other manufacturers (Compaq, Sony, IBM, Toshiba, Gateway) are considerably more expensive. For once, an Apple product is actually a better value than its competition.
Next-Gen Sun To Be Powered by a Spark in California.
+5 Interesting!
Hey, my other hand is busy while I'm surfing porn sites.
Macintosh humor! MacComedy.com
you are retarded
in the future your finger itself on an illuminated flexible mat will be your sole interface.
The finger can tap, drag, double tap, circle, all sorts of things.
But the matt cannot feel WHICH digit on your hand you are using and it ia not psychic!!!
Therefore the Mac is the way computers WILL BE 20 years from now.
In the mean time I give you a middle finger for your stupidity.
> For once, an Apple product is actually a better
> value than its competition.
Actually, what's exceptional in this case is that the Apple product has a lower STICKER PRICE than the competition. Their products are often a greater VALUE than the competition for many users (features, TCO, quality, ease of use, support).
judging by your easy trip into abuse you wont be getting any anytime soon either
it's down sometimes though. 3 or 4 guys from IBM are working on it.
Have you read the news lately? What's a BeOS?
/. Your comments should be posted to /dev/null.
What the heck are you doing here on
..but Apple have just renovated their dance hall.
They've employed new Swedish dancers who'll happily have sex with their partners - you just have to ask. Needless to say they are absolutely gorgeous - the best looking dancers anywhere. They even dance better than the old ones (although you can, if you wish, still dance with your old partners - even at the same time), but you might have to learn a few new moves.
The new dance hall is something of a well kept secret, although the word is spreading. Who knows - this time next year the other venues in town might be converted into Bingo halls...