VIM 6.0 is Out

LinuxNews.pl writes "It's more then a year after releasing the first 6.0 alpha. Lot's of improvements (i.e. you can edit files via FTP!) - check them out on vim.org" Of course everyone knows that vim is the best text editor in the world. Anyone who tells you differently is either wrong, lying, or criminally insane. (Or an emacs user, in which case they are wrong, lying and criminally insane).

Comments

vi versus emacs

[Rupert]

Boy, the way Taco is trying to start a holy war here, anyone would think that he made money on ad impressions every time someone posted a comment.

Re:vi versus emacs

[fobbman]

Ugh, can we avoid the whole "Holy War" thing. I'm rather CNN'ed out right now.

Call it "Infinite Debate" or something like that instead.

Re:vi versus emacs

[cheebie]

A friend summed the issue up nicely when he said "Emacs would be a great operating system if it just had a decent text editor."
(and he's a die-hard emacs user)

Re:vi versus emacs

[lizrd]

You use a keyboard for your programming? You spoiled little brat! Whatever is wrong with a nice row of toggle switches?

CT's bias

[sl70]

How come we can't mod CT's original post down as a troll?

Re:CT's bias

[Erik Hensema]

More like: +1, Duh, everybody knows that! :-)

But Emacs doesn't even compare to vi, so I don't really understand the fuss.

Re:CT's bias

[A Commentor]

Making the editor's comments appear as a comment would actually be a great idea...

It gives moderators the ability to mod them down, and ALSO, no one would be able to claim '1st post'.

New feature

[SpanishInquisition]

3 modes editing: now hitting the ESC repeatedly won't help you, you're doomed.

Office Assistant?

[mmontour]

So did Vigor, the vi paperclip, make it into the 6.0 release?

Re:Office Assistant?

[anshil]

Screenshot from vim-xp:

+-
|The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog._
|~
|~
|~
|~
|~
|~
|~
|~
|~ ..................
|~ . ..
|~ . Try typing .
|~ . ":help" .
|~ ................
|~ ..
|~ .
|~ /--\
|~ | | |
|~ |@ @
|~ | \-
|~ \
|~ \--
|~
|-- INSERT -- 1,44 All

because the 'announce' link doesn't work...

[Si]

here's the text of the latest 6.0ax announcement:

From: Bram Moolenaar
To: vim-announce@vim.org
Subject: Vim version 6.0ax BETA is available
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2001 15:51:23 +0200
Message-Id: Announcing: Vim (Vi IMproved) version 6.0ax BETA
Author: Bram Moolenaar et al. Announcement
------------ This is a BETA test version of Vim. Vim 6.0 is a huge step from Vim
5.x. Many, many new features and improvements have been included. For
an overview, with a few screendumps, look here: http://vim.sf.net/whyvim.php The past two weeks many bugs have been fixed. This release is to check
if no mistakes were made. If nothing important comes up, 6.0 will be
released in a few days. Thanks to all people who reported problems and
helped fixing them! If you notice a problem, please report it! It would be annoying if Vim
6.0 will be released with a problem that could have been fixed if you
would have reported it. If you are upgrading from Vim 5.x, please look out for problems you run into.
Vim 6.0 is mostly backwards compatible, but not 100%. Check out ":help
version6" for known incompatibilities. If you find a problem that can be
solved, please report it to me. Details about changes since the first beta can be found in these messages:
6.0aqhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vimdev/messag e/ 23413
6.0arhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vimdev/messag e/ 23598
6.0ashttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vimdev/messag e/ 23730
6.0athttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vimdev/messag e/ 23941
6.0auhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vimdev/messag e/ 24252
6.0avhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vimdev/messag e/ 24546
6.0awhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vimdev/messag e/ 24841
6.0axhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/vimdev/messag e/ 25061 You can find the most recent patches here: ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim/unreleased/patches What is Vim?
------------ Vim is an almost 100% compatible version of the UNIX editor Vi. Many new
features have been added: Multi level undo, syntax highlighting, command line
history, filename completion, block operations, etc. Those who don't know Vi
can probably skip this message, unless you are prepared to learn something new
and useful. Vim is especially recommended for editing programs. Vim runs on almost any Unix flavor, MS-DOS, MS-Windows 3.1, MS-Windows
95/98/ME/NT/2000/XP, OS/2, Atari MiNT, BeOS, VMS, RISC OS, Macintosh and
Amiga. For more information, see http://vim.sf.net. New since version 5.8
--------------------- The number of changes is huge. These are just the main new items: Folding - momentarily hide part of the text
Vertically split windows - mixed with horizontal splits
Diff mode - show and remove differences between files
Easy Vim: click-and-type - for those who really don't like two modes
User manual - learn to use Vim, reads like a book
Flexible indenting - automatic indenting for any language
Extended search patterns - more regexp power than you will need
UTF-8 support - Unicode allows editing nearly all languages
Multi-language support - translated messages and menus
Plugin support - drop a script in a directory and you can use it
Filetype plugins - an easy way to setup for editing a type of file
File browser - browse directories, also on a terminal
Editing files over a network - read and write a remote files directly
command-line editing window - use any Vim command to edit an Ex command
Debugging mode - debug your Vim functions and scripts
Cursor in virtual position - edit tables and draw ASCII pictures
Debugger interface - use Vim with Sun Visual Workshop
Communication between Vims - let one Vim tell another Vim what to do
Printing - print with syntax colors
Quickfix extended - see error messages in a window and jump there
Writing files improved - rename or copy to make a backup file
Argument list - select groups of files to work on
Restore a View - save the looks of a window and restore it later
Color schemes - quickly switch between different color setups See this page for the details: http://vim.sf.net/htmldoc/version6.html Where to get it
--------------- Information about which files to download for what system: http://vim.sf.net/download.php If you already know what to get, download it from here: ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim/unreleased Or use one of the mirrors, see: ftp://ftp.vim.org/pub/vim/MIRRORS Mailing lists
------------- For user questions you can turn to the Vim mailing list. There are a lot of
tips, scripts and solutions. You can ask your Vim questions, but only if you
subscribe. See http://www.vim.org/mail.html. An archive is kept at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vim. If you want to help developing Vim or get the latest patches, subscribe to
the vim-dev mailing list. An archive is kept at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vimdev. Subject specific lists:
Multi-byte issues: vim-multibyte http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vim-multibyte
Macintosh issues: vim-mac http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vim-mac Reporting bugs
-------------- Send them to . Please describe the problem precisely. All the
time spent on answering mail is subtracted from the time that is spent on
improving Vim! Always give a reproducable example and try to find out which
settings or other things influence the appearance of the bug. Try starting
without your own vimrc file: "vim -u NONE -U NONE". Try different machines
if possible. See ":help bugs" in Vim. Send me a patch if you can! If something needs discussing with other developers, send a message to the
vim-dev mailing list. You need to subscribe first. Happy Vimming!

Real Programmers...

[istvandragosani]

...use cat and od

Re:Real Programmers...

[Smitty825]

Yea, I'm not quite that good yet. I'm still using sed :-)

Re:Real Programmers...

[halftrack]

Real Programmers...:
* Doesn't get mixed into /. flamewars.
* Doesn't care how other people do their work - as long as they get it done.
* Do care enough about how he/she does the job and makes his own choises.

(I've currently only broken 1 of the aboves. Getting closer.)

Re:Real Programmers...

[Mike Schiraldi]

Real programmers use chmod +x /dev/random and cross their fingers.

Re:Real Programmers...

[Mike Schiraldi]

You should be using lowercase numbers.

Re:Real Programmers...

[jfortier]

I know it's a bit offtopic, but lowercase numbers actually do exist. Most professionally printed books will use them, because they look better in passages of text than uppercase numbers (the ones you normally use). You cna recognize lowercase numbers by the 1 that looks like a small I, and, and the 3, 4, 5, 7, and 9 that have descenders (go below the baseline like g's q's).

Re:Real Programmers...

[Miles]

Don't you need an infinite number of monkeys doing this for it to work?

Re:Real Programmers...

[WNight]

/dev/zero already functions that way, but only for Battlefield Earth.

Re:Real Programmers...

[darkonc]

The next best thing would be to get an addon to seti@home....
Tell them that you're looking for the readme.flying-saucer text, but you'll put up with a usable version of Windows.

Re:Real Programmers...

[WNight]

Battlefield Earth is empty of all useful content... /dev/zero produces a file full of zeros. So, it's effectively the same as a DVD rip of the movie.

Re:Real Programmers...

[Billly Gates]

Its rumoured that Scott Mcnealy from Sun said Bill Joy himself uses cat and od when writing code. The odd thing is I believe Bill Joy wrote the first version of Vi if I am correct. Hmmm I wonder what this means.

You forgot..

[Anonymous Coward]

"Anyone who tells you differently is either wrong, lying, or criminally insane."

You forgot "selling something." :)

Re:You forgot..

[The Madpostal Worker]

None of those dirty, GNU loving, emacs using hippies sell things though

The other Vim site

[anonymous cowpie]

... is at SourceForge. IMHO these pages are better organized and more helpful than the stuff on vim.org. Obviously not always up to date though, as the front page does not yet reflect the 6.0 release. :-|

what's the difference?

[metalhed77]

as a novice linux user I ask what is the difference between Vi And EMACS. I don't want to hear your opinion, but feature wise what is the difference?

No flames please.

Re:what's the difference?

[Mike Schiraldi]

as a novice linux user I ask what is the difference between Vi And EMACS.

vi is like masturbation. It's not as good as the alternative, but it's always there.

Re:what's the difference?

[garett_spencley]

The two editors evolved differently. Vim started as 100% compatible vi clone with extra features, while emacs was an attempt to create a 100% free (as in speech) text editor when the alternatives were vi (closed source commercial implementations), pico etc.

So in a nutshell here are the differences:

o Emacs uses lisp to completely customize the editor. Vim uses it's own little scripting language to do syntax highlighting, create shortcuts etc...

o Vim is just an editor. Emacs will do everything except pick your nose (ei: check e-mail, surf the net, even play games). You can also write Emacs extensions with emacs-lisp to get it to pick your nose if you really want it to.

o The interface is quite different. Vim (like vi) has editing mode and command mode. Emacs just has editing mode. Both are command-driven though unless you use gvim or XEmacs - in that case you get an X11 user interface.

There are lots of other differences feature wise but these are the big ones. The best suggestion I can give you is to just try both. They are both relatively hard to learn since you have to memorize a lot of commands. But once you have them down pat they easily become two of the best text editors available.

One thing to note though: because they are hard to learn it's suggested that you only pick them up if you do a LOT of text-editing (programmers for example). They really are programmers editors and not for people who just want to create the odd ascii file. Do not use them expecting something like notepad for windows. If you do you will hate them.

--
Garett

Re:what's the difference?

[Mr. Slippery]

as a novice linux user I ask what is the difference between Vi And EMACS.

vi - A VIsual editor. Older, smaller, and less full-featured. Newer vi-decendants, like vim, are larger and more feature-ruch. Mode-based editing - in insert more, typing "x" inserts an "x" into your buffer, while in command mode typing "x" deletes the character under the cursor. Commands are based on "ed", which is also the ancestor of sed. You can do some inserting stuff by feeding it ed commands, along the lines of ":%s/foo/bar/g" for global replacement. Pretty much tty based, some newer varients let you use the mouse directly.

emacs. Editor MACroS. "The extensible self-documenting text editor." "Escape Meta Alt Control Shift." Modeless editing (mostly, sort of). Has a LISP interpreter built in, which means its big (some might say bloated) and can do anything you want it to - there are entire applications written in Emacs Lisp. Editing involves a lot of "control" and "alt" key combinations - Control-X Control-C to exit, Control-X Control-F to open a new file, and so on. Works ok in a tty, or under X with point-n-click, dropdown menus, etc.

I like vi for small quick edits, and it's easier to run over a slow link. Emacs has a heck of a learning curve, but once you understand it, it'll be your best Unix friend. (Yes, there is a Windows version too.)

Re:what's the difference?

[Rocky Mudbutt]

vi{m}? has 5 modes:

Beep mode: everything you type rings the bell

Disappearing text mode: everything you type vanishes

Flash mode: everything you type makes the screen blink, scroll, and erase

Escape mode: everything you type needs an ESC

colon mode: all your text shows up at the bottom of the screen after a :

Emacs has 5 modes:

ESC

Meta

Alt

Control

Shift
In all modes everything you type requires the depressing of more than one of the above keys
in addition to a very-long-and-verbose-definition-that-you-look-up- regularly

after 22 years of vi, I think hjkl instead of
left down up right.

Re:what's the difference?

[Keith Russell]

You can also write Emacs extensions with emacs-lisp to get it to pick your nose if you really want it to.

Don't give anyone any ideas. I'm sure there's somebody out there with too much free time and a Lego Mindstorms kit....

Re:what's the difference?

[sharkey]

Emacs will do everything except pick your nose (ei: check e-mail, surf the net, even play games). You can also write Emacs extensions with emacs-lisp to get it to pick your nose if you really want it to.

Sounds like an, um, "interesting" port for LEGO Mindstorms.

Re:what's the difference?

[Tassach]

Actually not that hard if you have some X10 hardware :-)

Re:what's the difference?

[tomk]

Sorry to nitpick but this is a rumor that is incorrect but repeated so often that everyone believes it:

The interface is quite different. Vim (like vi) has editing mode and command mode. Emacs just has editing mode. Both are command-driven though unless you use gvim or XEmacs - in that case you get an X11 user interface.

The reality is that both GNU/Emacs and XEmacs have both cli and gui interfaces. The "X" in XEmacs does not mean "X-Windows" but "X-tended". In fact, XEmacs (last time I looked) was the only one of the two that supported color syntax hilighting on a console, thus bettering GNU/Emacs in that department IMHO. This may have changed since then since I have not used a CLI in a very long time.

XEmacs differs from GNU/Emacs by adding things like a toolbar, multiple fonts per document, and the like. It also adds considerable overhead, and requires a faster computer and more RAM in order to match the speed of GNU/Emacs.

You might consider both GNU/Emacs and XEmacs to be "command driven" in that many operations are performed by typing e.g. M-x command, but in most cases you can also perform these operations using pull-down menu items, on both.

You are very correct in stating that both vi and the emacs-en are hard to learn, but having learned both I will state my opinion: emacs is slightly easier to learn since it is closer in operation to what most people consider a "normal" editor. Emacs is also much more powerful, especially for a trained user. Once you've learned emacs, you will find it very difficult to use any other "limited" editor.. and trust me, everything out there is "limited" when compared to emacs.

vi is, as others have said, "always there", so learning some basic vi skills will be useful. vi loads in under a second on all but the most pathetic hardware, but I would never subject myself to a programming a large-scale project using vi, though I have used it for smaller-scale programming work.

Re:what's the difference?

[jandrese]

Huh? I've just tried out giving vim a CTRL+X+C combo in insert, command, and visual modes and none of them locked the app.

• Command Mode: Just beeps at me twice
• Insert mode: First tries to go to ^X mode, but then cancels back out to command mode
• Visual mode: beeps then cancels back to command mode

Maybe your vim or termdef is buggy?

Re:what's the difference?

[garett_spencley]

I know. I wasn't trying to say that they were. It just sounded that way.

I'm prefectly aware that XEmacs started as Lucid Emacs. Lucid being a company (that employed the infamous Jamie Zawinsky of mosaic/netscape/aol fame) who went out of business quite a while ago. Although the only thing I'm not clear on is when it turned into XEmacs and when the FSF decided to do some sort of merge to make them "compatible".

But even though they are completely different editors I still think of XEmacs as "Emacs for X11".

--
Garett

Stress test

[Papa Legba]

All I can figure is that the Slashdot coders have made some sort of change and want to see if the crap filter can take a huge load or not. Batten down the hatches! It's destructive testing time! The only explination I can find for this topic at least.

Emacs emulation in vim?

[Jonathan]

Emacs has had a vi-emulation mode for ages. Has anyone done an emacs emulation mode for vim?

Re:Emacs emulation in vim?

[DJerman]

No, it's like asking a Ferrari to emulate a 60-story office complex, an employment agency, an aircraft manufacturer, a luxury yacht, and a Ferrari.

Re:Emacs emulation in vim?

[Laplace]

Do you know what they call that emulation mode?

VILE (vi-like emacs)

For vi emulation of emacs, just type ":sh emacs" (without the quotes)

Re:Emacs emulation in vim?

[Xzzy]

> Has anyone done an emacs emulation mode for vim?

No, because they haven't figured out how to compress the 75 megs of diskspace a fuly featured emacs takes into the vim source, to give you that true "emacs feel".

Re:Emacs emulation in vim?

[jgerman]

Nah, why would a vi user want to use emacs? Emacs users have vi envy so they need the emulation mode ;)

Re:Emacs emulation in vim?

[Laplace]

I was waiting for someone to point that out. Brain fart on my part.

It doesn't work on my computer either. You have to have emacs installed to run it.

Nice to see...

[Klaruz]

Don't expect great new features in a next version. Vim has grown into a complex program with so many features and options that there is nobody who uses them all. Stability and easy of use are the main goals for the future.

I'm not a vi user, and this isn't intended to start a flame war, but it's nice to see vim sticking by it's one of it's principles - making a lightweight editor.

Re:Nice to see...

[Arandir]

Okay, let me attach some bait to the hook, drop down the line, and start trolling...

...it's nice to see vim sticking by it's one of it's principles - making a lightweight editor.

vim is lightweight? What have you been smoking, and why won't you share?

vim is only lightweight in comparison to emacs. It ain't lightweight compared to the vi family. It's like your 300 pound rube cousin you hate to invite for Thanksgiving because you'll have to cook two turkeys, and rent a spare sofa for the bowl games because the la-z-boy ain't big enough. The only thing that makes him tolerable is that he ain't your 500 pound neighbor emacs :-)

If you want lightweight, try elvis.

Only v6.0?

[gotroot801]

Bah - Emacs is already at version 20. Clearly this means Emacs is 333% better than vim!

Wait, you mean version numbers aren't a measure of quality? Dang!

vi for emacs

[Mike Schiraldi]

For those of us who use emacs, there's a great simulation available of the vi experience. (Check out the parent directory of that URL for more of the same)

Re:vi for emacs

[well_jung]

Yeah, vi has two modes: command mode and beep mode.

Re:vi for emacs

[Jburkholder]

Oh, that's great. The vi/emacs flamewar is settled in my mind once and for all!

I mean, the cearly superior editor is the one which can be made to completely mimic the behavior of the other, lesser editor, right?

I once tried to find an emacs reference coffe-cup just like the one I had seen for vi. It was only available in sets of 20.

Re:vi for emacs

[scrytch]

I mean, the cearly superior editor is the one which can be made to completely mimic the behavior of the other, lesser editor, right?

If you don't mind taking eight megs of RAM to do so... (I do use emacs BTW. On Windows at that)

My Choice...

[SoulSeller]

I still stand by WordPerfect 5.1 (Change font = Ctrl+Alt+ScrLock+PageDown+Fe+F6+F12+~+X), or Edlin... The preferred Text Editor amongst Sado-Masochists.

You're all wrong.

[Saint Aardvark]

From Ed, man! !man ed":

From: patl@athena.mit.edu (Patrick J. LoPresti)
Subject: The True Path (long)
Date: 11 Jul 91 03:17:31 GMT
Newsgroups: alt.religion.emacs,alt.slack

When I log into my Xenix system with my 110 baud teletype, both vi *and* Emacs are just too damn slow. They print useless messages like, 'C-h for help' and '"foo" File is read only'. So I use the editor that doesn't waste my VALUABLE time.

Ed, man! !man ed

ED(1) UNIX Programmer's Manual ED(1)
NAME
ed - text editor

SYNOPSIS

ed [ - ] [ -x ] [ name ]

DESCRIPTION

Ed is the standard text editor.

---
Computer Scientists love ed, not just because it comes first alphabetically, but because it's the standard. Everyone else loves ed because it's ED!

"Ed is the standard text editor."

And ed doesn't waste space on my Timex Sinclair. Just look:

-rwxr-xr-x 1 root 24 Oct 29 1929 /bin/ed
-rwxr-xr-t 4 root 1310720 Jan 1 1970 /usr/ucb/vi
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root 5.89824e37 Oct 22 1990 /usr/bin/emacs

Of course, on the system *I* administrate, vi is symlinked to ed. Emacs has been replaced by a shell script which 1) Generates a syslog message at level LOG_EMERG; 2) reduces the user's disk quota by 100K; and 3) RUNS ED!!!!!!

"Ed is the standard text editor."

Let's look at a typical novice's session with the mighty ed:

golem$ ed

?
help
?
?
?
quit
?
exit
?
bye
?
hello?
?
eat flaming death
?
^C
?
^C
?
^D
?

---

Note the consistent user interface and error reportage. Ed is generous enough to flag errors, yet prudent enough not to overwhelm the novice with verbosity.

"Ed is the standard text editor."

Ed, the greatest WYGIWYG editor of all.

ED IS THE TRUE PATH TO NIRVANA! ED HAS BEEN THE CHOICE OF EDUCATED AND IGNORANT ALIKE FOR CENTURIES! ED WILL NOT CORRUPT YOUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS!! ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR! ED MAKES THE SUN SHINE AND THE BIRDS SING AND THE GRASS GREEN!!

When I use an editor, I don't want eight extra KILOBYTES of worthless help screens and cursor positioning code! I just want an EDitor!! Not a "viitor". Not a "emacsitor". Those aren't even WORDS!!!! ED! ED! ED IS THE STANDARD!!!

TEXT EDITOR.

When IBM, in its ever-present omnipotence, needed to base their "edlin" on a UNIX standard, did they mimic vi? No. Emacs? Surely you jest. They chose the most karmic editor of all. The standard.

Ed is for those who can *remember* what they are working on. If you are an idiot, you should use Emacs. If you are an Emacs, you should not be vi. If you use ED, you are on THE PATH TO REDEMPTION. THE SO-CALLED "VISUAL" EDITORS HAVE BEEN PLACED HERE BY ED TO TEMPT THE FAITHLESS. DO NOT GIVE IN!!! THE MIGHTY ED HAS SPOKEN!!!

?

Re:NEdit!!!!!

[rnbc]

Definetly... emacs is way more powerfull, as well as vi, but nedit for quick, painless editing really rocks.

And is the only editor really modeless for Unix I know. I mean really modeless: open the Find window and you can still edit your text. You can open N windows at the same time, each for it's own function, and they all work at the same time, just like old X11 programs used to be, and contrary to most windows programs where opening special window deactivates the main window.

Bah.

[ByteHog]

Text editors are for wimps!! I use a very small magnet to write my files. and CMOS when I'm feeling up to it..

Shocker

[drodver]

I recently installed a linux distro on a new hard drive. Imagine my surprise when I open up a config file in vi and (gasp) it was in color! The horror! I quickly turned off the monitor and haven't touched that computer since. Someday perhaps I will gather the courage to turn the monitor on again, but not anytime soon!

Color text files! [[[shudder]]]

Re:CmdrTaco, please...

[Laplace]

Laugh. It's a funny comment.

Let me say that again.

Laugh, it's a funny comment.

Funny like this web site: vi man

Re:CmdrTaco, please...

[RollingThunder]

I do believe it's called "humor", as in VIM vs EMACS is a geek injoke....

Of course, the holy wars start because people have no sense of humor about this stuff. :(

HTTP mirrors?

[costas]

I wanna test out this puppy, but there are only FTP mirrors listed and the firewall here isn't cooperating. Any HTTP mirrors?

but it's solid content!

[hawk]

Finally, after all the errors, reposts, gullibility, and the like, we have solid information being reported on slashdot. No reasonable person can dispute what he wrote, save possibly the technical issue of whether "wrong" and "criminally insane" are in any way contradictory--but anyone who waste time on that matter would probably use emacs, anyway . . .

:)

hawk

Playing catch up

[ksheff]

I don't see what the big deal is. I've been able to do all those things with emacs several years ago (some probably a decade ago). I also hope the network editing isn't just limited to the insecure FTP. I like being able to edit files and run compiles over the network with ssh/scp using emacs with the tramp lisp module.

Re:Playing catch up

[Mike Schiraldi]

Yeah, check out this post before it gets moderated down.

Edit files via ftp

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice anti-emacs rant, Taco. You also mentioned you're impressed that vim can now edit files via ftp. Well, let's take a look at the emacs changelog...

GNU Emacs NEWS -- history of user-visible changes. 17-Aug-1988
[snip]
Changes in version 18.52.
[snip]
** Visiting remote files.

On an internet host, you can now visit and save files on any other
internet host directly from Emacs with the commands M-x ftp-find-file
and M-x ftp-write-file. Specify an argument of the form HOST:FILENAME.
Since standard internet FTP is used, the other host may be any kind
of machine and is not required to have any special facilities.


So, emacs has been doing this for 13 years. You whining about how emacs users are crazy is like a Windows user in 1995 insulting Mac users, who had at the time been using the neat new Win95 features since 1984.

Re:Edit files via ftp

[Domini]

This shiuld never have been built into the editor... Rather use the userfs ftp filesystem.

Screen dumps???

[hawk]

It's a text editor. Screen dumps? Ooh, look: a v, and an i, and an m. And all those vowels . . .

:)

hawk

Re:Screen dumps???

[gorgon]

Yeah, but vim does synatax highlighting!
So it more like, look a red v, a blue i, and a green m.
Woo hoo!

US Mirror

[FredtheDead]

Here the main us mirror site as vim.org is in Germany http://ftp.us.vim.org/vim/

I love this

[rho]

Lot's of improvements (i.e. you can edit files via FTP!)

Ye gods -- BBEdit has been able to do that for YEARS! On Emacs, I routinely open files by tunnelling from my laptop, to my server, to another server and open the files remotely that way -- tunnelling through ssh, telnet, or a combination of the two -- (check out TRAMP -- a lovely bit of wonderfullness).

But now that VIM has it?!?! It's a freakin' BREAKTHROUGH!

Re:Not to start a flame war;)

[GypC]

What if you're on some crusty old HP-UX machine in the back of someone's shop.

"Oops, sorry Mr. Client, I can't help you. This machine only has vi and, well, I'm just too lazy to learn how to use it. Maybe I can ftp the files to this Windows box and edit them with notepad... excuse me? Yes, certainly, I'll leave right away..."

Favorite new feature

[gorgon]

My favorite new vim feature is :hardcopy. This feature lets you save to postscript (or print) versions of your file that look just like what's on the screen, including syntax highlighting. No more need to screw around with a2ps or enscript when you want to pretty-print code. Very nice. Thanks to Bram et al.

Re:Favorite new feature

[Dr. Sp0ng]

My favorite new vim feature is :hardcopy. This feature lets you save to postscript (or print) versions of your file that look just like what's on the screen, including syntax highlighting.

I hate to sound like every other poster on this board today :P, but emacs has been able to do this for awhile, and its postscript printouts look *sweet*. Better than vim 6's.

Before I get moderated down as off-topic, let me just say that vim 6 is badass... finally lets me use #RRGGBB values for syntax highlighting in the GUI. Whee. When the betas for 6 started appearing I spent a lot of time tweaking my .vimrc file, and now I can't even use anything else. I even use vim (with mutt) for email. It rocks.

One thing I haven't been able to figure out how to do is to auto-read and -write GPG encrypted files (I know it can't do it in a perfectly secure way, the unencrypted version may get swapped out to disk, but I don't care so much about that. If somebody gets ahold of my hard drive, whatever. My secrets aren't all that interesting anyway.) I found some .vimrc stuff to do this through google, but it didn't work (and I couldn't figure out why). Anybody know how to do this?

Re:Use an editor?

[Julius X]

But the question is....what program did YOU use to write that editor of yours??

Emacs - wrong, lying and criminally insane BUT...

[SuperKendall]

more productive. :-)

Quanta

[phutureboy]

For web projects I use Quanta. It's definitely on par with Windows web editors like Allaire Homesite - I highly recommend it.

Some of us use the GUI as more than just a place to put 47 xterm windows, you know.

Re:Quanta

[CrackElf]

Some of us use the GUI as more than just a place to put 47 xterm windows, you know.

Weirdo :)

Re:You're wrong!

[broody]

Actually, it does. At this point it is obvious your wrong, lying and criminally insane!

Re:You're wrong!

[jrockway]

Someone wrote a program called vigor that does have a paperclip. Screenshots here. Hillarious sutff, especially for an emacs user *grin*

Another great feature

[the_other_one]

I can use vim 6.0 to create a website that disparages vim 6.0 and vim.org without having to worry about violating the license.

Yet one more way this is free as in speach.

Re:Flaimbait!

[grammar fascist]

If that isn't flaimbait, then what is!?

Well, as of now, it seems that your comment (Score:1, Flamebait) is.

Maybe there should be a "Funny" meta-moderation? Personally, I thought this moderation was hilarious.

No, 6.0 is actually out

[Tony Tastey]

Snagged from the front page of vim.org:

Vim-6 is out! rah rah rah! :-)
And here is what Bram said in his announcement:
From: Bram Moolenaar
To: vim-dev@vim.org
Subject: Vim version 6.0 available!
Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:22:57 +0200
Message-Id:

Well, there it is. More than a year after Vim 6.0a Alpha.
It's about time we get a full release!

There are a few bug fixes since 6.0ax, I don't expect them to
cause new trouble. The XIM problems have not really been solved,
but I didn't want to postpone the 6.0 release any further.
Hopefully the hack I included will make it work for most people.

I'll announce it to a larger audience
when the mirror sites have catched up.

Thanks to all the people who helped making Vim 6.0 what it is now.
Either by sending me patches and Vim scripts or just reporting tiny
problems. Vim wouldn't be the same without your contribution!!!

What next?

Next week I'm going to visit the project in Uganda. In November I have
another holiday planned. In between I'll try to fix the most important
bugs that are reported. Anything else will have to wait for a while.

Don't expect great new features in a next version. Vim has grown into a
complex program with so many features and options that there is nobody who
uses them all. Stability and easy of use are the main goals for the future.

Re:No, 6.0 is actually out

[kdgarris]

Stability and easy of use are the main goals for the future.

Stability and what?!?

-Karl

Re:Not to start a flame war;)

[gimpboy]

I like nano the enhanced pico. It is small lightwieght and has search and replace. Perfect for editing config files...

vi (not vim) is pretty small, search and replace is pretty simple %s/oldstuff/newstuff/g. plus once you know vim, using vi for small stuff is fairly painless.

emacs vs. vi

[fetta]

This may be old, but it was new to me:

"Emacs is a great operating system - if only it came with a decent text editor."

hmm, smaller programs

[Sludge]

Oh what? Since when do you have to release a new version of your text editor to get features like working over ftp? :) People blame emacs all the time for being one monolithic bloated program, when in fact it's far more modular than the lesser text editors that other people settle for.

Calling emacs one big monolithic program is only true if you couldn't peel off the layers of LISP code that you may not require. It'd be like calling Linux bloated because it comes with ALL the GNU tools.

How dare you...

[Kronos.]

...say I am criminally insane! I regularly consult M-x doctor thankyou very much! ;)

joe is better

[vstanescu]

If i want console editing, i always use joe. I cannot accept that i have to press a special key before i can insert/append some text. And also, the delete method in vi is awful. And more, joe feels better than vi on strange terminals. When i can (X available) i use nedit.

Re:joe is better

[marm]

I'll second that. vi and emacs users can stuff their dull editor wars up their :q! and their Meta-Alt-Insanity.

Me, I'll just ^K D and keep on working...

Re:joe is better

[kvigor]

As a former joe fan, I must suggest you check out Jed.

Unlike joe, it is being actively developed and supported, has readable source (while I like joe, have you ever looked at the source? The medication is helping, but I still twitch occasionally...), runs on Windows (yeah, sometimes I have to work on a Windows box and it's really nice to be able to have my editor of choice), and has both console and X/Win32 GUI versions.

Unlike emacs, it's relatively small & fast (though admittedly bigger & slower than joe); unlike vi, it's useful.

If you like joe, you should check out jed.

Re:joe is better

[andy@petdance.com]

Me, I'll just ^K D and keep on working...

Translation: "I prefer the intuitiveness of Wordstar!"

Emacs Already Has FTP File Editing

[ras_b]

Lot's of improvements (i.e. you can edit files via FTP!)

from the emacs documentation:

You can refer to files on other machines using a special file name syntax:

/host:filename

/user@host:filename

When you do this, Emacs uses the FTP program to read and write files on the specified host. It logs in through FTP using your user name or the name user. It may ask you for a password from time to time; this is used for logging in on host.

Normally, if you do not specify a user name in a remote file name, that means to use your own user name. But if you set the variable ange-ftp-default-user to a string, that string is used instead. (The Emacs package that implements FTP file access is called ange-ftp.)

You can entirely turn off the FTP file name feature by setting the variable file-name-handler-alist to nil.

ok, make your case objectively?

[Tom7]

Well, that's easy to say, but emacs has had ftp editing for at least 4 years (probably much longer). In my exeperience, it's been more powerful and more customizable than vi has been (and I learned vi first, yes).

Subjective issues aside, what does vi do that emacs doesn't? The only thing I've ever heard that I believe is that it loads faster.

Re:ok, make your case objectively?

[SCHecklerX]

Actually, why would EITHER of them even friggin' need it???

There are ways to create FTP 'filesystems' (OS/2 was doing it in 1994ish?) Failing that, you can easily write an external script and bind it to a macro in the editor.

Too many unnecessary features that are better taken care of elsewhere. Oh well.

Re:ok, make your case objectively?

[Tom7]

It is a big deal. But my computer is really fast, emacs loads in less than a second, and I can use gnuclient if I really need that extra speed. (Anyway, you can just leave emacs open, even using it as a shell...)

But otherwise, emacs seems more powerful. Nobody can come up with features of vi which aren't in emacs?

Re:ok, make your case objectively?

[Tom7]

I dunno, it's pretty nice to use in NTemacs to edit files on a unix machine. I use it a lot. I would like to see scp-mode, though...

vi - to the casket.

[iomud]

If I were a pokemon I'd be vigglypuff, I would live to vanquish picochu.

1984 Interview with Bill Joy

[Hobart]

This page has an interesting interview with Bill Joy, the original author of VI ...

Interesting tidbits

• Originally written in 1976, "...right after Carter got elected"
• Joy had, by 1984, dumped 'vi' for Interleaf for WYSIWYG
• Many interesting predictions about 'the future'

Get the Vim book

[andy@petdance.com]

Steve Oualline's book "Vi IMproved--Vim" is pretty good both as an introduction to vi, and to the vim-specific things as well. It's also released under the Open Publication License.

Re:Get the Vim book

[afniv]

If you want to order this book, please use the links at the vim.org site. A portion of your order will be donated to help children in Uganda. Thanks.

it's like unix & windows.

[hawk]

Unix is a collection of small things, each trying to do something well, with the bower being in the combinations. Windows tries to do everything.

vi is like unix, while emacs is like windows: yes, there's a GNU operating system, although it's not the so-called GNU/Linux [1]. Emacs is an operating system that tries to do everything you could possibly conceive of. Vi edits.

GNU/Linux would be like a tire and engine with no body, steering, seats, frame, etc. It's not until you include the rest of the stuff like perl, X, bsd stuff, etc. that you get what we normally call "Linux" and that you're able to get any work done.

ob flame: besides, a large portion of emacs user move beyond the heresy of emacs and get arrested for unnatural acts with goats :)

L
hawk

Re:Use an editor?

[tb3]

Ha, reminds me of the guy who wrote his own word processor in Lotus 1-2-3 macros.

Re:How To Keep A Healthy Level Of Insanity

[sharkey]

20. When the guy at Papa John's/Pizza Hut/Domino's/etc. asks, "How can I help you?", tell him that you want to order a pizza.

Emacs/XEmacs

[solarce]

The more I hear about the many "features/modules" of Emacs/XEmacs the more I want to dowload and try it out, seems to me that it is not "monolithic", but rather customizable to the point of a development evironment you do nopt have to leave, most of the time, that is for those of us who prefer the console style environment. And I am thinking this coming from four years of using straight vi/vim.

Good lord...

[Gruneun]

then Windows 2000 must be absolutely fantastic.

Re:Good lord...

[tcc]

>then Windows 2000 must be absolutely fantastic.

it is 20.408 times better than 98 :)

But where I come from, multiplying by 0 always gives a big 0 :)

No matter what you use daily, you still need vi

[Pinball Wizard]

because one day you might need to restore your system from a boot disk, and vi is about the only thing that can fit along with the stuff you need to boot your system with. I suppose you could use edlin for this as well, but hardly anyone uses it. Additionally, vi is the one thing you can count on being on every system.

Therefore, no matter what you use on a regular basis, you should still learn how to use vi.

Re:No matter what you use daily, you still need vi

[dvdeug]

As for boot disks, Debian used to use ae on the boot disk, but will use nano for the next release, because no one liked ae and it wasn't maintained. We don't use vi, since nano and ae were self-documenting, and they didn't want anyone to suddenly have to cram on vi just because their system crashed.

BDSM and war (was:Re:My Choice...)

[warpeightbot]

Edlin... The preferred Text Editor amongst Sado-Masochists.

No, no, no. TECO is the preferred BDSM editor.

Truth be told, I started out as a vi bigot. EMACS was Eight Megs And Constantly Swapping, and I was constantly killing hung emacs processes left by my tcsh-using sidekick... (dammit, when the shell exits, it should bloody well SIGHUP the children... but that's another holy war...) And then there was the night I spent trying to upgrade my then-boss' personal AIX box. I ran out of DASD and it marked the kernel "broken" by mistake. A little RTFM on his partner's machine, fire up emacs, fix the LPP database the hard way, and the boss gets to work to find he's able to read an email timestamped 4-something-am instead of to find a busted machine. The rest has been a ten-year gradual slide into the world of auto-fill-mode, emerge, and find-file-other-window... yes, I still use vi for the occasional "quickie" editing task, and I don't disparage those who insist on only using it to the point of narfing a Win32 binary of vim or elvis... that's their choice, they're entitled to it, and I don't think it's wrong.

I would like to say, though, that given the fact that I've become an emacs user, and that some pseudo-Muslim fanatics have dared cause mass mayhem on American soil, and that some other pseudo-Christian fanatics have dared use xenophobia as an excuse for those attacks, I'm not surprised to see the Head Slashdotter trolling on his own front page. Whether or not his comment was in jest, it says a lot more about him than it does about me... and what it says is not very nice.

What a previous poster said: One war at a time, Taco.

We now return you to something vaguely resembling Stuff That Matters.

+2 Funny on the MQR standard

[MarkusQ]

+2 funny on my private ranking system. You don't need it, but you deserve it. That was the funniest rant I've read in a long time.

Thank you!

--MarkusQ

+1 Veracity on the MQR standard

[MarkusQ]

How do you mean 'start a holy war'... vi vs emacs stems from way back... it's the mother of all flamewars.

You're quite right. I don't know why you got modded down for this (Offtopic?); I suppose it's just another example of the old adage "Those that don't remember history are doomed to misuse mod points."

-- MarkusQ

Re:CygnusED

[mmontour]

A straight port of CygnusED would be difficult, as it was a commercial product and the source code is probably long-buried by now. Also, it probably used a lot of Amiga-specific features that wouldn't map well to Linux.

However, I've found NEdit to be an acceptable replacement. It has many of the same features as CygnusED, such as the ability to cut-and-paste a column of text. It shouldn't be that hard to patch in the rest of CED's essential features.

(and just so I'm not completely off-topic, let me add that vi[m] is still my editor of choice for non-GUI situations, such as configuring a 'headless' server in a remote location over a 9600-baud serial line).

It reminds me...

[AmX]

...of a fortune I saw (can be found in the "linux" file in the fortune package):

vi is [[13~^[[15~^[[15~^[[19~^[[18~^ a
muk[^[[29~^[[34~^[[26~^[[32~^ch better editor than this emacs. I know
I^[[14~'ll get flamed for this but the truth has to be
said. ^[[D^[[D^[[D^[[D ^[[D^[^[[D^[[D^[[B^
exit ^X^C quit :x :wq dang it :w:w:w :x ^C^C^Z^D

-- Jesper Lauridsen from alt.religion.emacs

Not cat.

[roystgnr]

gunzip -c > executable

That way you don't have to do nearly as much typing.

Insane Emacs Users

[Arandir]

Or an emacs user, in which case they are wrong, lying and criminally insane

Hey wait! We may be lying and criminally insane, no doubt about it, but we ain't wrong!

Jebus people!

[Danse]

Did everyone's humor gland become inflamed and have to be surgically removed? Can't take a joke? It was obviously meant to poke fun at pepole who take these things WAY too seriously. It was funny! Get over it!

An alternative to vi(m) and (x)emacs

[chrysalis]

I've always used Jed .
It can emulate most features of emacs, but it's a lot smaller a faster. Functions are programmed in Slang, a very simple language. Slang looks like interpreted C language with a lot of handy hooks for strings manipulation and text display.
Also, Jed works on a lot of platforms, including all variants of Unix, VMS and Windows.

Mac OS X Support?

[geoffeg]

Has anyone gotten vim (gvim) to work in OS X (aqua, not just console)? I've seen screenshots at vim.org ( http://macosx.sage-tech.net/screens/vim-shot1.jpg ) but havent seen a place to download the binary. I also see no configuration option for it in vim 6's ./configure.

Any ideas?

Geoffeg

Re:Mac OS X Support?

[bleyddyn]

The screenshot you referenced clearly shows vim running in Terminal (i.e command line).

However, it is possible to run gvim under X-Windows, which if you get a recent version of XDarwin, means it will be running in the Aqua layer right alongside your Mac programs. Try searching for XDarwin or XonX at versiontracker.com. It's not necessarily easy to get XFree86 and XDarwin running, but it's not really all that hard, either

I've been using VIM 5.7 for quite a while under an older version of XDarwin. I haven't upgraded because it's stable and I like to use it in non-aqua mode so that I have multiple desktops.

Coffee on Emacs

[tjwhaynes]

Well there is this:

Coffee.el" for submitting a BREW request to a RFC-2324 compliant coffee maker.

There is kitchensink.el around here somewhere too ... :-)

Cheers,

Toby Haynes

Re:Coffee on Emacs

[dublin]

And of course there's the old joke about Stallman finally finding a version of Unix he could live with: "vmunix.el".
(Joke repeated here because it seems there are many on /. these days that miss the humor in old jokes entirely...)

Re:Guess what...

[EnderWiggnz]

how boring.

of course there's a "best" text-editor...

jsut like there are "best" operating systems... and "best" donuts... and "best" #2 pencils...

who made you all zen-like?

What every editor needs.

[elgee]

After you type for awhile, a little talking toilet pops up and informs you that what you have written is crap. And then flushes it.

Re:Criminally insane.. hmmm

[EnderWiggnz]

he's going to get 10% of sales of vim, thats why he's pushing it.

Re: Nice anti-emacs rant

[Rocketboy]

It was a JOKE. Loosen up!

Re:Guess what...

[ocie]

What is the "best" vehicle?

Editing through ftp

[_typo]

Not do disapoint you or anything but I've been editing files from ftp servers with emacs ever since I started using emacs.

I guess this is like the whole linux-now-has-stateful-firealling thing...

America's New War:

[richie2000]

Emacs vs. vi

Emacs President Shrub today announced a new iniative in the war on user-friendlyness; Operation Infinite Swapspace.
This can be seen as a direct response to vi's recent attacks on Emacs functionality when a flock of rabid vi supporters chanted "vi don't suck, vi is leet, vi can edit in ftp!" outside the Emacs embassy in Kaboom, capital of Afarawayistan.

An Emacs representative commented the attack with "Those evil vi-llains will do anything to confuse the issues. The fact is that Emacs can solve the Towers of Hanoi problem faster than a vi user can learn to save a file and this bugs the hell out of them since most of them don't even know where Hanoi is. We are going to find their leader /vigor/bin/laden and make him pay for this atrocity."

vigor himself just said that "Vi vill :q! them!"

The Piconian ambassador was not available for a // comment, but rumours has it that he's busy compiling evidence.

VIM License

[Meltr]

I apologize if this is redundant, but I didn't find any mention of it yet.

VIM has a charityware license. If you use VIM and like it, you can donate to the Kibaale Children's Centre, which helps orphans in Uganda. In VIM, type ":help iccf" to get more info, or go to ICCF's web site.

Re:How To Keep A Healthy Level Of Insanity

[sharkey]

As Marge Schott would say, "Well.....there.....you.....go."

The Moderating Sucks

[mobydobius]

The moderating sucks on this article, and I think I know why:

How can anyone be expected to be impartial in the middle of the primordial flame war.

PS Emacs rules!

Re:Emacs - wrong, lying and criminally insane BUT.

[Tet]

more productive. :-)

It's late, I've just got back from work, and right at this moment, I don't care. So I'll respond. It's only more productive because you don't know how to use vi properly :-)

Re:Emacs is dying!

[TheAwfulTruth]

vi vs. Emacs. Common enemy visual Studio or Code Warrier. (Or maybe even KDevelop on linux itsef!)

I have never seen anyone in my life editing code in word. If you've seen that you've been to hell...

Re:Please don't hurt me.

[Pedersen]

Someone has probably already said this, but I'll say it here anyway: Start vim, and then type this:
:help tutorialAnd it will take you through all the steps of using it.

Re:ncftp?

[PurpleBob]

I went from ftp to ncftp when ftp's lack of features became apparent. And then I went from ncftp to yafc when I decided I had had it with the way quitting ncftp works.

The way it pauses for a second and shows the promotional message for NcFTP Server made it feel like I was using shareware. And god help you if you want to exit ncftp quickly from a site to which you've lost the connection.

vi for Notepad lovers

[Fjord]

Just thought I'd weigh into this holy war by mentioning WinVi. It's done by a German guy and is available in English, German, and Spanish. The design goals were to be identical to Notepad in a CUI sense, but still have vi functionality. It isn't a perfect vi implementation, but it has the majority of things you would need, and it's a great bridge to vi. If you've wanted to learn vi, but don't want to give up windows L&F, then it's a great choice. Oh and it loads as fast as notepad, and it's GPL'ed.

My first experience with vi on linux

[SCHecklerX]

I couldn't believe it. It used the same stuff that (tedit?) used on my old TRS-80 color computer! Obviously the coco took its ideas (and code?) from vi, but it was really cool and nostalgic to actually know what I was doing with the editor in linux :)

Re:Text Editor Jihad

[Glytch]

Amen from the highest fucking rooftops! Small executable, perfectly usable over ssh even on a dialup connection, and a completely customizable look and feel. Wonderful program.

Of course, it helps that I'm an old Wordstar fan. But if joe didn't exist, I'd probably be a pico fan. Maybe ae after pico.

Re:Bidirectional editing? (Hebrew, Arabic)

[N0Nick]

emm.. how about these?
VIM: http://www.iglu.org.il/faq/cache/101.html
Emacs: http://www.iglu.org.il/faq/cache/102.html
Pico: http://www.iglu.org.il/faq/cache/147.html

Other editors: http://www.iglu.org.il/faq/cache/145.html

Not just that

[Arker]

Emacs has been able to emulate VI pretty completely for ages actually, in addition to actually doing real work. Just takes a single snippet of e-lisp.

(use-global-map (make-sparse-keymap))

There you go! Just like vi, it beeps every time you do anything, and you can't quit. :)

You *can* change font sizes in GNU/Emacs

[tmoertel]

On many platforms a font-change dialog is bound to Shift-Mouse1. You can also customize the default font programmatically. Here's one way, which I use to set the default font to 8-point Andale Mono:

(custom-set-variables
;; other customizations ...
'(default-frame-alist
(quote ((menu-bar-lines . 1)
(font . "-*-Andale Mono-normal-r-*-*-11-82-96-96-c-*-iso8859-1")))))

For other methods, check the manual.

Re:Not to start a flame war;)

[Squeeze Truck]

Yes, but not all unices have vi. I don't recall which one, but it seems to me that there was a Linux distro where pico was standard and vi had to be installed.

Re:Please don't hurt me.

[newbiescum]

Check out the latest user manual too. After the tutorial, it is the best thing that I've found that "completely" documents features in a reasonable and informative fashion. Type ":help user-manual" for the manual.

Emacs is not an editor, really

[pclminion]

As always, the vi people misunderstand Emacs. Emacs does not aim to be an editor. It aims to be a cohesive environment. Perhaps this rubs the vi people the wrong way because, as we all know, UNIX is supposed to be based on small, powerful tools that perform one, and only one, function (or group of closely related functions).

Emacs violates that philosophy. And the vi users hate that. Ok, that's fine. But a philosophy cannot be right or wrong. Get over it already.

Emacs has strengths, particularly as a programming tool. Integrated (and fully customizable) debugging. Version control (perhaps vi does this as well). Hex-editing mode. Automated compilation. And anything else you can think of: if it there isn't a ELISP module out there to do it already, someone can hack it together quite quickly.

If you stop thinking of Emacs as an editor, and begin thinking of it as a more comprehensive environment, it stops seeming outrageous. vi may be the best editor out there. But Emacs is the best integrated solution for complex environments.

Visual Studio integration support??

[Billly Gates]

Did you read the part on vims homepage about Visual Studio integration. Sweet! I would kill to replace VC's main editor with VIM's. Now if only I could do this with KDevelop.

emacs is a great os. Comes with a shitty editor.

[Billly Gates]

Quoting an a/c here: "Emacs is a great operating system. It just comes with a shitty editor."

what do the "masters" use?

[Mr. Asdf]

Just curious if people happen to know which editor the "masters" use.

I think I heard Linus uses microemacs.
I would guess that Bjarne uses vi since his errata is in s/a/b/ format.

(ok, pick your own masters if you want....)

Re:what do the "masters" use?

[sid6581]

Tim O'Reilly converted from emacs to vi.. OK, a master he may not be, but I have no clue what other people use. All I know is that apparently, both Stallman and Gosling have carpal tunnel syndrome. :)

vi vs. vim vs. emacs

[Domini]

emacs won the war long ago against vi. vim is a different beast however. As someone said: emacs is a great operating system, but when I want to edit something I use vim. vim is still the best programmers editor. (Whish is what I use it for...) But personal preferences set aside. Some of the coolest things vim now has is vertical splitting, and code folding. It may or may not be true that emacs has had this for bilions and bilions!? of years, but that's not the issue... its just really useful stuff being added to the staple-code editor. My 0.02

Red Hat Linux packages available

[bero-rh]

Red Hat Linux RPMs are available here.

mud ed != unix ed

[oneiros27]

As someone who's been stuck on a wyse term trying to rebuild files in single user mode, I had the unfortunate discovery that 'ed' in Solaris is not the same as 'ed' in MudOS.

From a few times of trying to push vi past its limits, I've found that 'ex' is much closer to the 'ed' in MudOS, and with the number of similarities, I'd assume may have even been the basis for MudOS's 'ed'.

[Now, if I could just get the functionality of MudOS 'sprintf' in perl, I'd be damned happy, as I hate doing columns/tables/etc.]

Macintosh text editors

[oneiros27]

BBEdit definately rules the Mac landscape.

For those who need stuff like 'bold' and 'font sizes', I'd stick with WordPerfect 3.5 for Mac over Word. [But you're right... Word5.1Mac was the last good version...by 6.0 it was half bloat]

I'd rather load SimpleText than Word6.0Mac.

[Hell...I'd even be willing to go back to AppleWorks or ClarisWorks or whatever they're calling it these days]