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AMD And THG update
Mhrmnhrm writes "In the interests of responsible journalism, the gang over at Tom's Hardware has developed this article in the interests of setting the record straight about their original AMD burn-out video, and the new release (possibly from AMD) of this past week. It would seem that BOTH videos are correct, and that the question of whether or not somebody is hiding something depends entirely upon your own point of view."
I love you!
fuck yeah, 2nd post!
root> man -k lunix heterosexuality hygiene
nothing appropriate
root>
So both articles are right adn wrong? THW used the basic setup most of us would use, while AMD used extra hardware? hmmm ok then............
"Nevertheless, it must be said that the facts as shown in the video remain plausible and can be reproduced at any time. At the moment, none of the mainboard manufacturers offer a solution to this. Even highly reputable companies such as Asus and Gigabyte offer no support for this particular problem. "
Cruise TT
AMD should have given the specs on the thermal diode to the mobo manufacturers well before the release of the chip, so it could be implemented in the motherboards that are out at the time of the chip release. It does much less good to tell them later, as they must amke costly revisions to already designed boards.
It is much more likely for a fan to die on the heatsink, than for the heatsink to fall off on its own. Someone should do a test to see if this also causes chip failure or if the sensors on the motherboard can shut down the computer before anything is damaged. The results would mean a lot more to actual users.
But in the end - its really not an issue. Yes, existing Athlon owners are at a SLIGHT risk of failure if their heatsinks fall off (I'd love to see REAL stats on how often THAT happens) But in the end, its still cheaper to replace your Athlon once than to go with an equivalent Pentium 4. So lets be glad AMD listened to the folks at Tom's Hardware - realized they were getting a black eye, and did something about it. Hopefully in a few months we can buy mobos with the Maxim chip safty valve or some tryp of clock throttler. Then the Pentium freaks will have to argue over real stuff like benchmarks and performance instead of making snide comments about Athlons burning you house down.
Top Most Bizarre/Disturbing Error Messages
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that leads me to believe that CmdrTaco is a goat lover! Appropriate authorities have been notified. Use extra precaution when posting on slashdot, espey when you are a goat!
I just heard some joyful news on the talk radio.
I seems that pharao and son of Ra, Ra-Gort-Sot was found alive in his egypt tomb this morning. I'm sure that all slashdot readers will appreciate his appearance, even if you don't like his work, there is no denying in his upcoming contributions to geek culture.
I say good work to 'em. It seems THG was correct all along, but I couldn't detect the faintest sense of gloating or grandstanding in their article. They've pointed out a fairly big problem with some of AMD's chips, AMD have responded with new info to MOBO manufacturers (who will no doubt consider this new feature fairly important after the attention the orriginal article on THG received). Great. No threats of legal action by either side (AFAIK), no finger pointing, no FUD. Now if everyone could behave like this......
Uninteruptable Fan Supply.
Wow.
Like redundancy is a new idea....
Edited so for you to be easier readings. pLease to adds the "pussy thumbnails" as you're seeing to be fitted.
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Where come all these pussy thumbnails from ?
ZIP!
I am goaty!
Remember that thing with the IBM hard drives ? I still don't know who to believe.
I think this problem is only going to get worse. In the interests of responsible journalism, could someone at slashdot investigate, and actually come to an editorial conclusion ? The truth is out there, I just don't have time to sift through all the spin and hype to get at it.
Who does ?
In the more common case of the CPU fan failing, the CPU will heat up more slowly. Hence the other protection mechanisms in the CPU will be used, and the user will get a chance to save their data.
However, AMD should have designed the safety circuit they have shown off in the article INTO the actual CPU itself, so it can save itself. And it should save itself by basically clocking itself down to 100MHz or slower, so that data loss does not occur and the user can save their data. Hopefully this will be implemented in a future revision of the CPU.
However, the instances of CPU heatsinks falling off are extremely rare, and probably attributable to either a poor initial fitting of the heatsink, or a bad socket with a weakened retention mechanism. In a tower case, the heatsink would probably fall onto the graphics card or spring onto the memory and damage these anyway...
and ready for a huge wide girth to fill it up!
root> man -k lunix heterosexuality hygiene
nothing appropriate
root>
Yes, it would have been nice if existing motherboards did it, but at least AMD didn't bury their heads in the sand and ignore the issue completely once it was pointed out to them.
No, I don't want a free iPod
... the video released by AMD that showed no overheating problems? I didn't spend the time/bandwidth downloading it, but IIRC the claim was that it showed Quake3 running even after the heatsink was removed.
This is contradictory to the claim that AMD's fix is to close-down the motherboard.
The Tom's Hardware Article, although it was informative as TH articles usually are, made no comment on this video. Does it exist? What did it really show?
Enjoy Y2K? Roll-on Year 2037!
Jon Katz is gay!
Today, George W. Bush [whitehouse.com], webmaster of the popular Jon Katz is Gay! [isgay.com] website confirmed that through independent sources he has confirmation that Jon Katz is a confirmed gay. He says this information was discovered via a wiretap on Slashdot.org's [slashdot.org] (a famous communist computer programmer website) founder, Rob Malda. Rob alleged invited Jon Katz over for a night of fun and asked Katz to bring the 'love gloves'. Jon Katz did not return calls, but Rob Malda said, "So what? It's not like people didn't know we were gay."
"it feels softer than a little kittens ass", he remarks to himself as he procedes to rub up against tacos infected asshole.
root> man -k lunix heterosexuality hygiene
nothing appropriate
root>
it should be integrated into the cmos to choose if you want to shut off the power instantly, or throttle the cpu to a lower speed and managable temp to let the system shut down properly. I'm sure a 1.5GHz cpu could function at a low temp if reset to a 66mhz bus (or even 33) and lower multiplier, just enough power to save any data and exit gracefully.
:P
then again, isnt that what intel got bashed for doing with their p4? i'm not sure on the specifics of the why's how's and when's of p4's power throttle, all i remember is people pointing at p4 and saying "bad". Doesnt sound so bad now tho.
I imagine the most important point to any failsafe like that is letting the user know clearly why exactly their computer shut down, or is running incredibly slow. maybe having the soundcard play some 70's pron music in the background would be a good enough indication that something is getting too hot?
"only one substance inside this here jon katz" CmdrChildMolester said with a smirk.
"Male Cow Feces. Lots and lots of Male Cow Feces..."
root> man -k lunix heterosexuality hygiene
nothing appropriate
root>
Still prefer Intel chips. If I'm going to get an
X86 box, i'd still go with intel. Why? Intel stuff is just better engineered. More specifically, Intel CPUs and motherboards are the more stable, better tested combination.
I dont know of any hardware site that says that an AMD cpu + some AMD or VIA motherboard can even approach the stability of Intel CPU+chipset.
My current box is a P4 2GHz (socket 478), Intel 850MV motherboard (tho an Asus P4T is probably just as good), 512Mb PC800 DRDRAM. It runs Linux and FreeBSD very well.
I'd urge Linux users not to dismiss Intel chips out of hand. You do pay for quality. Remeber these chips have SSE2 instructions (which even XPs dont have and probably never will), the thermal diode *IS* a kill switch here -- you will not burn them up, much greater memory bandwith than with DDR, they overclock decently (you can usually get 200MHz above spec), and benchmark very well.
Definitely go with i850 and RDRAM, the 845 is meant for low-end situations and doesnt perform nearly as well.
The bottom line for me is stability -- I dont think AMD can match Intel CPUs and chipset for that. Look in the Linux kernel source code -- VIA chipsets have many PCI quirks that Intel boards just dont have.
Adorned with earrings and coated with makeup and lipstick, notorious homosexual nazi michael sim is caught in the act of sucking timothy's diseased manhole in front of CmdrChildMolester and Homos, who appear shocked that anybody would be using the same barn as they use!
root> man -k lunix heterosexuality hygiene
nothing appropriate
root>
I like them.
sporting large erections, RMS and ESR bring an unwilling guest...
"Heeelp! Heeelp!," cried Linus, as they took turns pounding his tender swedish sphincter into a lump of loose roast beef.
"Heeelp! I'm sorry I went with the GPL! This is what i get for stealing source code from BSD and masturbating in my closet 3 times a day to hentai! Hee *guck*". RMS thrust his meatiness into linus's mouth, silencing his effeminate cries.
"MEEEE NEXT! OH PLEASE OH PLEASE OH PLEASE! MEEE NEXT!" cried Homos, "I WANT YOUR GPL INSIDE OF ME, MISTER RMS!".
root> man -k lunix heterosexuality hygiene
nothing appropriate
root>
Do you want good luck to follow you and your offspring for generations to come? This troll has the solution for you.
All you have to do is copy this troll onto two to four of the discussion threads of your choice! That's right! Just copy this into a new message and click "post anonymously." That's all there is to it!
Tired of that idiot talking about geek culture! Stick one of these babies on it! And it's good for the economy!
Marge Gentry of Cambridge, Minnesota participated, and the next day she received a large fruit basket outside of her door from a secret admirer. Unfortunately, Marge was hit by a truck the next day, so she didn't get to the Granny Smith apples.
Commander Taco of Hole-in-the-ground West Virginia didn't participate, and he was violated by a group of raging homosexuals. Since the gang was headed by Jon Katz, Taco had no recourse to the law because the entire town knew about their previous relationship. The unfortunate outcome is enshrined forever at goatse.cx.
So if you want to get the fruit basket and not get poked in the bread basket, just copy this troll onto two of the discussions threads of your choice. We could have this place blanketed by sundown!
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Marion, not one to give up, asked again, How old is he, Billie, he doesn't look like he's even sixteen yet!?! He glanced at his watch and realized that the reception was already started, so he gunned the motor and headed off to the high school. Just then the bus stopped at Jackson St. where Robin hopped off and headed off to the office. This was just to easy, thought Vic Tabor, as he carefully opened the unlocked window on the first floor of the secluded farm house. Hey kid, what's your name, asked Vic! For now, though, just being able to work at something he truly loved was enough for him. About sixty miles into the Mohave Marie could feel her car becoming sluggish. Puffy. That was a perfect description for these light pink models of perfection! The coffee shop was dark and quiet, just spot for two old friends to reminisce about old times. Anyway, she continued, basically for the adventure, I can always use the money, but since Harry passed away last year, my life has been such a drag, and I just feel like breaking out of my shell! Slowly Jonelle felt the big dick grow soft and slip out of her now aching cunt. She knew it would happen quickly, and within a minute Timmy flooded her mouth with his cum. He moved his mouth, but no word would come out. Just one more thing, he added, be ready, `cuz I'm not spending all night out there, understand??! They parked the car behind a stand of trees at the end of a dirt path. While Brenda mixed him a drink, Walt sat down on the couch and put his feet upon the coffee table and turned on the television. The cool air coupled with the sexual tension caused her pink nipples to harden and turn bumpy. Okay, Jaime, he said, while opening up his Econ 1 test book, why don't you come over here and we can go over some of this stuff! Although he didn't have the biggestin the world, Hillary couldn't ever remember being this turned on! Nice tits, bitch, Fay said, now the panties. Rachel broke down in tears all over again, at the thought that she too might soon be made a public laughing stock along side her paramour! Lay back and do your clit, Jake ordered! Pete flashed what appeared to be a laminated pass of some kind and they were allowed to enter a dimly lit room. And then, just as quickly as it started, it was over! Sleeping fitfully on her way across the ocean, Amanda was about to embark on an adventure that was to be at the same both horrifying and exciting. When she got back to the table, Jake was all dressed and paying the bill. I slipped my dick out of my pants and began a rhythmic stroking as the blond brought the brunette to a crashing orgasm. Mrs. Drake stood transfixed as the young plumber started removing his clothing. Oh you don't have to pay me anything, she replied excitedly, that's what were here for, to help the students! When he finally spoke to her he asked, Do you know what attracted me to you! Geri pulled away from Judy's cunt just long enough to tell Kathy to lay down on the floor and eat her. Sometimes when he and Hal were 69ing each other he had to admit that one more that one occasion he was really thinking about Bobby's tush! Turning a bright shade of red he shook his head no! Heading west with the top down and the wind in her hair, Marie felt like she had the world by the tail. Shaking her head from side to side, Teri answered, No, no one else, just you! The same guard then took her to the administration office where she was to have a meeting with Warden Dunn. Okay, he asked, what'll it be! Trouble however is what Amber was getting into. We have to go back to the beginning to find out how a happily married young woman would take a phone call at work, take off her knickers, get into a car, and let another man stick his finger into her vagina! Her legs were spread wide apart, and her crotch was covered with a thick growth of dark brown pubic hair.me, she cried out,me harder! Both off them were now on the same train, the one racing through their loins! Herwas almost trained to expect a hard orally induced orgasm at least once a day, and if for some reason she missed it, her cunt would twitch for the rest of the day, sometimes driving her into the rest room where she could manually relieve herself. His roommate, Tom, was a freshman from Chicago, so many nights were spent telling each other of life in each other's home town. On to the elevator and straight up to the thirty eighth floor, Hoito explained that Mr. Tanaka would join her in about a half and hour, giving her time to freshen up. Jill nodded at Cletus and yelled over the rumble of the big Harleys that her name was Jill. Carl ran his hands all over Quin's upper torso, feeling the hard rippling muscles under her smooth taut skin. As Tommy snapped away, Emma unbuttoned her blouse and began to reveal her huge chest encased in her low cut lace bra. Sir Midian stood up and looked down at the sexual carnage he had rendered and finally spoke, I'm taking Dani with me, I might give her back, but I might not, do you understand me, Edward!?! Even in 8th grade she was a solid C-cup, and now as a sophomore she filled her bras out to a very full 36D. Before he would get out of his truck in the morning, he would flip on the recorder with and eight hour tape. Standing up and putting hisback into his pants, Al replied, No problem, we're a full service delivery company, and today we really delivered!! Her tongue snaked out and began nursing on Petra's wet sex organ. My clit, please hit my clit, she pleaded to herself! It seemed to him that she had no control over her actions, because her clit was in total command of her being. Rachel wasn't really paying any attention to any of this and went straight to the elevators. Maggie sat at the breakfast table eating a bowl of cold cereal, and she didn't even hear her mother speaking because her thoughts were far away. No ma'am, my girl friend is afraid to, he answered quickly. Mark let go a stream of cum as she walked by with her tits jiggling! By now Paula was being whipped into a frenzy by the dirty talk and Lisa's persistent mouth. CONNIE, Linda chided, it's not that long, and besides, when we are together it's very good! The shower had several other things going for it, the first being that the large janitor's closet was directly adjacent to the shower and could be used as the nerve center for his spying activities, and also since he was the janitor, he could go into the shower room and make any modifications he needed to carry out his plan. Oh my god,me, she pleaded,me hard, I haven't been fucked in over a year!!! Dunn began touching Barb all over her body pay special attention to her tits and. This was the first time Kevin had ever seen his friend naked and immediately he stared at Greg's. As a freshman he had so much to learn about life at a big college like State U. Robert Walker, John Smith fairly shouted, no daughter of mine would ever be seen any where with that young ruffian, let alone naked on a river bank where anyone could see'em! It was at least ten inches long with blue veins running from the base all the way to the gigantic head! Since I am trying to teach you what girls need, I want you to stand up and take off your jeans and under shorts. Me too, she replied, I almost backed out at the last minute, but figured we would be in a public place, so why not! She had sucked her first dick when she was only fifteen and it hadn't taken her long to find out that she could control just about any boy with her mouth! Jill gave a wicked laugh and held her hands about a foot apart and nodded, and both of them burst out in hysterical laughter! While continuing to grade her papers, she asked in a stern voice, Is my little one in great need today! She nodded her head and dropped to her knees, taking the thick erection deep into her mouth, sucking on it like it was the lastin the world! Kathy giving a quick look around the store, quickly took her free hand and slid it into the hot slit inches in front of her eyes! Kim had a friend who owned a small dress shop and was sure that she would give Frannie a good deal on a wedding dress, as well as dresses for the brides maids. Was that all right Ma'am, the girl asked! Excellent, just excellent, Cori gushed. Valerie's van was a big fancy conversion job that was loaded with all the comforts of home. In a few seconds Lisa removed her dress and blouse and was standing in front of Paula in her bra, panties, garter belt, and stockings.
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I think they're taking this a tad too seriously...
s tr ike-01.html
www.tomshardware.com/column/01q4/011029/counter
In the interests of responsible journalism, the gang over at Tom's Hardware has developed this article in the interests of setting the record straight about their original AMD burn-out video, and the new release (possibly from AMD) of this past week. It would seem that BOTH videos are correct, and that the question of whether or not somebody is hiding something depends entirely upon your own point of view.
Several things strike me as odd about this "news" (2nd article) and the first article which spawned it.
;)
-"Siemens assured us that the thermal protection circuitry is definitely working on their motherboard." (1st article)
Well, it did not work anyway, whoops. And therefore AMD must be at fault here?
-"We rushed to the telephone to confer with Siemens. The engineers assured us that what we had seen was for real. The thermal diode of Palomino is unable to react quickly enough. Only 1 degree/s is what the thermal diode is able to handle." (1st article)
Okay, they check with Siemens. Why not have a chat with AMD? If the thermal diode can only work this slow, why can the AMD engineers make a working shutdown with a common electrical component?
-"AMD showed us how all Palomino CPUs could be protected against overheating with relatively little effort." (2nd article)
Wonder why Siemens could not make this? They where the ones who claimed that the MB would protect againt meltdown, and that it worked. AMD said that the thermal diode worked. And showed it on a modified MB, which have no protection from the start.
THG is making a big fuss, about a somewhat minor problem. And THG was too biased against AMD, I can only hope I was biased enough the other way
And what is up with this "We saved the hardware manufactors and you" theme in the 2nd article?
Are they losing commercial revenue?
Carbon based humanoid in training.
After ESR was done pummeling timothy's mouth, he told him something that he had never told a living sould before.
./ session.
"Let me tell you the secret to my success in the open sores world, timmy. Years ago, when i was just a animal raping hick out in Chickensex Falls, PA, i was empty inside. I had no special partner, until i met cathy. cathy filled that void in that i needed to be a wealthy VA chairman. However, not everyman can find that special someone. Some people search forever and don't find sheet. But these people are looking in all the wrong places. You see, cathy's my sister. That's right, I fuck my sister. Out in Pennsylvania, we just a bunch of happy folk, we don't harm nobody. We did find our happiness, with our siblings. My old lady and old man are brother and sister! I kinda look like both" he paused and smiled with that broken grin. "When your looking for that special someone, don't look too far from the nest, lil timmy", and ESR began to throttle his already devastated anus with another gay
root> man -k lunix heterosexuality hygiene
nothing appropriate
root>
Toms hardware originaly covered this. Whilst the majority of problems you will experience is a failed fan and therefore a slower temperature rise. The issue of whole heatsinks falling off is becoming more of an issue as CPU's get faster they get hotter, hotter means bigger headsink/fan systems. Bigger means *heavier*, Heavier means the little plasic bits that the sink is clipped to can break!
-- Vagnerr - (www.vagnerr.com) Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
AMD zone also has an update on this story. The most interesting thing (to me) is that they have a 2nd video that show the P4 shuts down. With possible data loss like the modified XP tom was shown in munich.
Trollwave 2001 -- an endless space odyssey in time.
Yes, you can.
Troll network associates.
OK, I suppose I want to see AMD as the good guys here, since I love their products. Even so - I can see how things could spin a little more in their favour if you're inclined to be generous.
Firstly, let me say that I belive that thermal protection integrated into the CPU, like to P4 has, would have been the best way to go - but then we'd all be complaining about how expensive the new Athlons are, wouldn't we? AMD give us lots of grunt for our dollars, and we can't expect them to pack every little feature into the CPU for the great prices they give us, any more than we can expect Apple to sell us an iPod for 50 bucks.
Now, the original article at Tom's has the following interesting quote ...
We rushed to the telephone to confer with Siemens. The engineers assured us that what we had seen was for real. The thermal diode of Palomino is unable to react quickly enough. Only 1 degree/s is what the thermal diode is able to handle.
I pointed this out the other day, too. A Siemens Engineer was consulted. Excuse me? An AMD CPU just fried itself on a Siemens-made board, and they don't ask the CPU manufacturer why it happened - they ask the board manufacturer. That's not where I'd be directing my enquiries if I was doing the test.
Now AMD prove that with a simple external board, everything shuts down and saves the CPU - just like we'd want to happen. To me, this suggests that the thermal diode has no problems reacting in time, and that maybe the board manufacturers screwed up or cut some corners when they were developing support for it.
It's understandable, for the same reason AMD didn't pack the chip full of power management goodies. Keeping costs down on goods that are bought by very price-conscious buyers looking for maximum performance at the best price. They implemented support that was adequate for a fan failure, which is the most likely thing that'll happen in real life. They could well have decided that a simpler circuit was all that was necessary, since a heatsink isn't likely to fall off.
Most likely we'll never know the full sotry. Everyone will blame everyone else, and in a year or so we'll forget all about it because the hardware will be obsolete. We'll have new problems. In the meantime, everyone has the message that they should be careful that they install their CPU cooling devices properly. AMD will recover from any negative press. Hell, Intel put out a bunch of CPUs that couldn't do Math at one point, and they survived. :)
Wasting your time since 1997.
The specs haven't changed and was proved simple to implement so the motherboard manufacturers have no excuses.
However, AMD still seems like the one to blame since they only implements the warning signal and have no "clock-throttling" or other mechanism to safely bring down the system. The MB manufacturers would still be able to refuse AMD's "solution" to just cut the power if they have concerns for any customer running a system a bit too hot.
In the american way you can't serve coffe that's too hot, but it still has to be drinkable, so you have to produce a luke-warm somewhat-acceptable solution.
Trollwave 2001 -- an endless space odyssey in time.
Because, perfection is found in the details.
Troll network associates.
Trollwave 2001 -- an endless space odyssey in time.
Join the subliminal channel!
Troll network associates.
Let me get this straight - no, really. If I remove the apparatus that helps to cool something down, its temperature will go UP? Increased temperatures might cause something to melt?
I really don't see the rocket science in all of this. Heat sinks are strapped down to your CPU by a firm metal clip for a reason - they are necessary to keep your CPU cool - and by 'cool' I mean 'functioning'. Run a current through a thin piece of metal and the metal heats up. Physics. Try it yourself with some thin copper wire and a 9V battery.
Motherboards that are equipped to switch off when things get too hot would be great, but how many of you have had your heat sinks fall off? I am guessing a very small percentage - hardly worth the economic cost of equipping all motherboards with the sensor device. (Remember, that cost will just filter down to us anyway, so you might as well buy the device separately if you are worried.) If you're kicking your PC down the stairs twice a day, it might be worth investing in a little protection, but chances are you've got other worries by that point.
Tom's site has to be the single best example of independent oversight via the web. One more example of the internet showing its shregnth of fighting corporate ass-covering FUD. It's just amazing what started as a one man web project can do to get the truth out. Last I heard, Tom really isn't a doctor, but he sure has earned the respect of netizens and corporations alike.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
..it sucks
what is this, about.com now?
Tom's shows what happens if you use any Athlon
with any currently available motherboard.
While it's correct, it's like griping about no RDRAM support on an Athlon board. The feature isn't supported by the motherboard yet. End of story.
The AMD video shows what happens when you use an Athlon with a thermistor in motherboard that has the Power Now thermistor support..
And while it's also correct, it's basically vaporware until such a board debuts.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Mod up parent.
This is exactly the reason I feel much more comfortable using an Athlon, than I was right after the original, alarming Tom's article.
Sigged!
Nice Troll dude.
By the way, i just saw CmdrTaco being rushed to the hospital, i just managed to see Homos protruding from his ass. Upon asking he told me the slashdot editorial team found a new pasttime.
GOATSE.CX diving from cupboards!
hmm..... maybe up ahead.
Toms stated:
t e_papers_and_tech_docs/24309.pdf). The fact that most MB manufactures doesn't use the diode might tell something about the likelihood of the cpufan falling off!!
"In conclusion: as a result of our findings in the Hot Spot video AMD decided to consider finding a solution to protect its CPUs from overheating and the company wants to bring it to the market"
, but the fact is that the Athlon XP have had a thermal diode from the beginning (http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/whi
Thomas S. Iversen
While I've followed the Athlon performance discussions with no little amount of awe, I've been frustrated by the heat issues and the related power consumption. Due to reasons beyond my control, heat, relatively speaking, is an environmental issue where I work. Humongous HFC's aren't the ideal solution to this problem IMO.
;-) VIA's latest C3 (800Mhz) looks technically "cool" but it understandably lacks DDR support and tick-for-tick its performance still sucks compared to the K7 designs by AMD.
Recently I've started pondering whether it would be possible to take one of the newer Palominos (eXPee+ series Athlon) and underclock it (e.g. from 1,333Mhz to 1Ghz or even lower) via the multiplier and voltage while keeping the external bus speeds (which aren't part of the heat problem) intact or even slightly overclocked.
Has anyone studied the underclocking opportunities of Palominos with the latest mainboards? Waiting for the move to a 13 micron silicon-on-insulator process is starting to get on my nerves.
Also, does anyone know if the upcoming "finer" Athlons will be compatible with the mainboards on sale today?
Or should I just give up on AMD and go for a P4 when the DDR-boards become available?
Should invading one's peaceful neighbours be opposed, or rewarded with trade deals?
Yeah, that explains all the Pentium 4 ads that were on his page when he did the original article.
I hope you didn't spend too much time working on that reply. A simple word replace would do quite well.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Tom has long been batting for AMD, and now that Intel has a better product he switched sides. The video of the smoking chip is hype. It didn't show many people at all anything they didn't already know. We all knew that AMD ran hot, and we all know that if your cpu fan starts growling that you need to replace it. All I want to know is whether this was a stunt to get even MORE traffic or to get Intel to send him more shirts and coffee cups.. Long live ars and [H]
tinfoilmedia
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eat shit taco!
Their whole point is to be cheap crap. nVidia doesn't even have a product out yet, and when they do it will be version 1.0, so don't even start talking about quality, stability and reliability.
You made the original posters point for him, one should be wary of AMD systems because of their lack of quality motheroards.
I just finished my first week with my AMD 1.4 TBird. I've had to make a lot of changes to the system, as I was having heat issues. I rely on sites like THW and AnAndTech, but now I'm confused. I read that story THW did, and I downloaded the "AMD" video. Why is it so freakin hard to find out the truth about something?
Um, this is my sig.
I want ALL of you WORTHLESS, EVIL, and soon-to-be DEAD Islamic Fundamentalists to READ this:
Your countries are going to be destroyed. We, in the United States of America, will allow you to live just long enough to watch your MOTHER get FUCKED up the ASS. And, as you see your precious MECCA and MEDINA levelled to the GROUND, you will know that DEATH will come VERY slowly for you.
Your beloved ALLAH will be SODOMIZED.....
Your beloved women and children will be slaughtered.
If ANY of you know basic arithmetic, read this:
1 lost American life = 1.6 billion worthless, filthy Islamic Middle-Eastern sandniggers.
Your days are NUMBERED. You are EVIL.
We will TAKE PLEASURE in watching the looks on the faces of Islamic pig males as you will be forced to watch as your worthless MOTHER, WIVES and CHILDREN are TREATED, FUCKED and SODOMIZED like the WHORES that they really ARE.
Islamic Fundamentalists - watch out. We are going to dance and rejoice in the streets, as we watch you wail and cry and gnash teeth.
We will dance and sing as the DEATH COUNT rises in the DESTRUCTION of MECCA and MEDINA.
Muslims...this is a WARNING....WATCH YOUR BACK...because NOTHING about you is sacred. YOU are SOON to be HISTORY....WIPED off the face of this earth.....
your ALLAH will get TOTALLY fucked in the ASS, and you will cry. And, as you cry, YOU will DIE. And WE will rejoice.
THIS IS WAR. WAR on Islamic Fundamentalists. WAR on Muslim Fundamentalists.
And the bloodshed will be COMPLETE.
ENJOY your few last days, you worthless excuses for human beings.
DIE....and SEE YOU IN HELL, MOTHER FUCKERS!!
We will GO AFTER your WORTHLESS MOTHERS and CHILDREN FIRST.
We will shove LARGE STICKS, ROCKS, and ANYTHING ELSE WE CAN FIND UP THEIR WORTHLESS CUNTS AND ASSES.
YOUR MOTHER IS A WHORE.
ALLAH will GET IT UP HIS ASS.
and YOU will DIE!!!!
saru mo ki kara ochiru
Tom's site is known to be a "take a stand" site where Tom and crew are looking to piss on whatever company didn't send them a reviewer sample quickly enough (how many times has a bad review started with "We barely have time just because they just sent us the board. All the other sites got theirs last week. Wahhh! Wahhhh! RESPECT MY AUTHORITY: I AM THE TOM!"), or because someone didn't return their phone call, etc. They're like some sad gang of retaliation experts looking for an axe to grind. It's like the National Enquirer of hardware sites.
dont they keep on playing (Q3) for several more minutes after they shut down the cooling mechanism in the alledged AMD video ??
If the power is cut off abruptly, it makes no sense, the new AMD modified board detects the extra heat and shuts of the power, and according to THG the processor would fry withing seconds, so how did they play for several more minutes ???
What exactly was the point of this 'research'. It sounds like THG just wanted to burn and break stuff, then cover up for it by making it research. What are the plausible REASONS for doing this -- sure, your heatsink MIGHT fall off during normal computer operations...
I think this is just idiotic. It's like seeing which painting in a museum has the best flame retardance built in. It's not something that has any real impact.
Frankly I don't plan on running anything heat-sink-less for a long time, so who cares?!
"Yes, existing Athlon owners are at a SLIGHT risk of failure if their heatsinks fall off (I'd love to see REAL stats on how often THAT happens)"
This happens a lot with computers that are shipped (eg from Dell, etc). Thats probably one of the reasons why Dell doesn't do AMD, replacing all the chips that get fried by a heatsink coming off in shipping would be a lot more expensive.
(and I've had this happen to me before actually, although it was with a P3, which of course didn't fry because Intel put some thought into the design)
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
What i did see on the P4 video:
-It first slowed down.
--> This indicates some thermal protection is available. Or what part of the thermal protections are you reffering?
-It shuts down after some time .
--> you did expect a cloud like tom's AMD procs?
And according to the intel link you posted this is exactly what should happen. Seems like tomsh P4 did not run hot enough (135C) to completely shutdown.
Now of course you have to assume they are telling the truth....
Basically, these experiments show different things.
1) Tom's Hardware pulls the heatsink right off, AMD chip smokes in seconds. He uses a standard motherboard available today.
2) AMD uses MODIFIED motherboard. They take the heat sink OFF, it turns off in seconds. They turn the fan off, it runs for a while then turns off.
So the experiment shows in both cases that the AMD chip can not function for more than a second IF (hehe) the heat sink is not on at all. Just that the AMD modified board is smart enough to turn off.
Had THW been willing to burn another chip he could probably show that when the fan turns off it runs for a while, and (i assume this would happen from what i read how the thermal diode functions) the system would probably give you the chance to turn off your machine with a warning before it smokes.
In either case I think if you were away from your computer your hardware is blown. For those who sleep/work with their home PCs on this is an issue, though minor because it is a rarity. THW shows it and AMD creates a solution for those concerned.
I think from a consumer standpoint, having the option to buy a board with protection as to saving probably 10 dollars on another that doesn't at least allows people the option.
On Ace's Hardware, this subject is discussed thoroughly the last days. An interesting article can be found here. Some thoughts from this article:
- the component needed for proper protection of the cpu costs $0.85 (in quantities of 1K).
- "Obviously, Siemens used an external temperature probe and tried to pass it off as using the internal diode."
- The reaction time of the thermal diode is certainly not 1 degree/second: "At our worst case rise of 300C/sec, that translates to a response time of less than 1ms. No way would this result in a fried CPU if power off is immediate upon the signal occurring."
For a matter of fact, an engineer told a friend of mine it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to develop a thermal diode with such characteristics (1 degree/sec response time).
You can find the main thread of this article here.
If there is any company out there with even an ounce of marketing savvy, they will create an adapter board that contains the thermal protection circuit. It will plug into any motherboard's CPU socket and the Athlon XP/MP will plug into it. If they want to add more pizazz to it, they can add an alarm beeper, LEDs, or a temperature readout.
Think of the number of potential customers! There's a huge market of upgraders out there -- people with existing boards into which they'd like to plug an Athlon XP. Then there are server guys who have so many systems that failures are statistically guaranteed. With this device, they'd just have to replace a fan/heatsink. Without it, they've got to install a whole new CPU.
I just got an athlon 1.4 GHz and the freaking heat sink is the size of a softball and the CPU fan makes more noise than a Pratt & Whitney JT-8D jet engine. I'd KNOW when the fan stopped blowing.
I've been purchasing AMDs ever since I breached the 200MHz barrier. I absolutely love them, but yes, there are quirks in the chipsets you have to be aware of. Especially the VIA chipsets - yuck.
:)
Imagine my surprise when I had to purchase a new sound card because of conflicts with the video card, which only existed in VIA systems! Installing that 4-in-1 IRQ routing driver crap is no fun either. Also, I've had to rebuild my system a couple of times because the motherboard resources unexpectedly shift assignments on Windows somewhere, and cause IRQ conflicts all over the place. On jumperless PnP systems no less.
It's a lot like balancing an elephant on the head of a pin. On the other hand, when everything is worked out and in place, the system works great, and I see the improvements in internal streamlined archetecture win out over the GHTz mythos. The problem of stability then shifts over to the OS, and as another poster already mentioned, Windows seems to happily and flawlessly execute the Random Crash Instruction Set in any hardware environment.
AMD is for people who have a passing interest in mucking about with hardware, and as far as I remember, they've never denied that fact. In fact, you almost have to be a hardware monkey to use AMD, since Intel in overwhelmingly favored by the Big Names That Build Computers. The benefits of being a hardware monkey are worth it, and, speaking just for myself, I've learned a lot. I feel much more comfortable buying parts to make and upgrade my own machine than I do trying to figure out what's Dell or Gateway decided to put in their systems this week. Plus, I've got 24-hour tech support, right inside my head.
Tatsujin
The car is clearly defective since the wheels fell off when I removed the lug nuts.
And what's worse is that my drink tasted awful when I slurped it out of the carpet.
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
Small problem: how are you going to get the heat sink to fit with an adapter board between the CPU and the socket? I think you could actually increase the chance of frying your CPU because you'd have to have a more complicated (and therefore more failure-prone) heat sink mounting mechanism.
--
"Open source is good." - Steve Jobs
"Open source is evil." - Microsoft
While, I was setting up my dual Athlon system. I wanted to test system with just one processor in it. So, I took the fan off and forgot to remove the processor. The processor fried in under 2 seconds. It was my dumb mistake so instead of returning the processor, I bought a new one.
After this recent news, maybe it wasn't my fault. Who's responsible? Am I for making such a dumb mistake or AMD for not providing good thermal protection?
were just fine.
I know you hate it. But, face facts, the "evil, slow, overpriced, hated" Intel chip works better.
I just don't understand why anybody would buy those crappy Intel chips.
Am in the process of building an AMD 1.4 (spaceheater) box and will use a Swiftech 462 heatsink that bolts to the mobo. Which should pretty well eliminate the possibility of it falling off!
In light of the THG article, I may even replace the cpu fan frequently.
And then I will cease to worry about it
AMD works for me, and the price is right.
A dead fan will trap heat in the space between heatsink fans and effectively turn the heatsink into a heater. It will heat up your chip.
This is actually a specific point of failure that notebook manufacturers try to avoid. Rather than placing a fan ontop of a heatsink, they try to induce airflow across a heatsink. Thus if it fails, at least you aren't heating up your part, you just aren't providing much airflow.
The socket for the CPU, whether on the adapter board or on the mainboard, will still have tabs for mounting a heatsink. The adapter could even, itself, be attached to the mainboard via the mainboard socket tabs.
Look at the design of PGA-to-slot adapters made to allow use of Socket 370 CPUs in mainboards designed for Slot 1 CPUs. You mounted the CPU on the board, the heatsink on the CPU, and the board in the slot. Worked fine. Look at the products to adapt CPUs from one family to another. These support voltage regulation and the use of a heatsink. (They are a stupid waste of money in almost all consumer PCs, but they point out the mechanical viability of such a solution.)
In fact, this would be a particularly easy one as there would need to be no significant offset between the two sockets. You only need to connect to four pins (3.3v, gnd, 2-pin thermal diode). The "output" could be a jumper to the two-pin power switch connector the motherboard. Problem solved.
hmm, well it IS in the data sheet: http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white _papers_and_tech_docs/24309.pdf
I also design PCBs for a job and when I use a chip, I check the datasheet first...
Page 35!
I just want to say that the Thermal diode info was on the AMD site from BEFORE they sold any palominos... now it is just as if Tom has reinvented the wheel... If a mobo manufacturer does not read the datasheet (see the link a few messages up) of the chip they are designing for.... my god... and now AMD has to point the obvious out AGAIN...
I'm still running 2 dual PIIs, they are great. But Intel missmarkets there RAM speed, PC3200 @ 4 bits wide bus I belive. vs. PC133 @ 64 bits wide (on my Asus A7Pro) 12800 vs. 8512 for non DDR. Hmm which is faster now? After all the trouble I had supporting i810's and i815's I'll never get a i8xx chipset with the possable execption of the i840. The KT133 and my XP1500 work fine together @1Ghz. Intel has shot them selves in the foot with there new hub arch. The THG video showed that P4's are great, small form factor and throttelling, for a Palm.
I read the first article and was quite impressed by the P4's performance of just going on at a slower clockrate. I also found it quite informative, that an Athlon might not only fry itself, but also the motherboard or even start a fire. The point is quite valid, that the heatsink might fall off during transport (although i suppose one would hear the loose heatsink rattling in the case) and will take a little more care with present CPU/Mobo combinations.
Let's not forget, that the throttling technique got some critique when it became known, mainly because the user wouldn't know about it, and it seemed a cheap way for intel to resolve heat problems with the P4. Toms article showed, that the throttling is quite a good feature to have (it would be even better, if there was a way of notifying the user without counting clockticks). So the first thing i thought after reading Toms first article was: "will AMD something similar, and when?". Now the followup shows, that AMD is aware of the problem, and is willing to spend some effort to offer solutions.
While the Motherboard-solution is more like a quick hack useful enough for present boards and AMD-CPUs, i expect something built into the CPU next time (at least a sudden shutdown should be possible, altering clockspeed at runtime might be a different story, and probably takes some haggling about patented technology with intel).
In conclusion i think things are as they should be: the test has made AMD aware of the fact, that protecting the CPU from overheating is a feature customers want, and they set to work on it and offered a quick solution after a few weeks. Noone tried to ban the story from toms site and people actually got together and talked about the problem without shifting responsibility around.
I still think the Athlon has the better bang for the buck, but i won't mind shelling out a little more money for a mobo with overheat protection.
"By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing... kill yourself." -- Bill Hicks
All I've got to say is I tip my hat to both THG and AMD. THG for running the tests and showing the truth, and AMD for actually listening. Neither one of them seemd to have go into a media tissy over this which is one hell of a change after hearing about the likes of Microsoft And Intel. In case any AMD peoples are reading this post, I am even more firm than I was yesterday about how great AMD chips are, and that everyone and their mothers should buy an AMD, and say to hell with Intel on the desktop. Intel costs nearly 3 times as much, and it's performance often times is just a "bit" ahead of AMD or a "bit" behind. Which doesn't justify the extra 400 bucks to spend on a CPU. This CPU meltdown thing was the only thing so far that has waivered my opinions of AMD Athlons, but even with this critical problem, considering the price I bought the CPU for, even if mine eventually does fry, I'm sure not going to have to cry about it. Intel is for those that run x86 mission-critical servers, and those not in the know. AMD is for those hardcore l33t gamorz in the know. Anyway just blowing smoke now. GOOD JOB THG & AMD!!!
Since this whole incident is over the unlikely event that the heatsink falls off the chip, why not have a jumper on the motherboard tethered to the heatsink? That way when the heatsink falls, the jumper pops off, and the mobo responds.
I first thought the mobo could also set off an alarm but then figured the loud thunk and subsequent cracking produced by a 5 lb heatsink crashing and knocking out the PCI cards beneath it would bring enough attention the the problem. That and the screen suddenly going out as the video card gets annihilated by the falling behemoth.
"Mechanical problems demand mechanical solutions." - my mechanic bitching about modern cars
"In the interests of responsible journalism, the gang over at Tom's Hardware has developed this article..." Responsible journalism at Tom's Hardware Guide? A web site that makes its fortunes writing about hardware, such as motherboards, processors, hard drives... yet totally ignores the widespread problems with IBM 75 GXP hard drives? and with a class action suit http://www.tech-report.com/onearticle.x/3035 now to boot? What do we get from THG? SILENCE. / This was reported by multiple hardware sites, and slashdot, and was pointed out to THG in multiple emails, but still, SILENCE.
Yeah, responsible journalism. They don't know the meaning of the two words.
the toms hardware computer wasent set to shut down if a certain temp was reached and it went up in smoke. the amd video was, so the chip dident fry!
Daddy would you like some sausage?
The response to THG by AMD is unbelievable... almost funny. It's like saying, "Hey, that new car you just bought goes really fast, but you might want to know that if the muffler falls off, the car will die in under two seconds!" and then turn around and make an excuse like "But you can fix the problem by buying one of these handy temperature devices that isn't manufactured for resale by ANYONE to the general public!" AMD should be ashamed... and so should most Motherboard manufacturers!
Gravity!... It's not just a good idea... It's the Law!
The end users may not be allowed to open their PCs - company policy or warranty issues.
And even if Joe/Jane public opens the case, they won't know if things are correctly installed.
Link.