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International Space Station: Canada to the Rescue?
Apostata writes "The following story from the Globe and Mail outlines a proposal of the head of the Canadian Space Agency to seek renewed funding for the recently stripped-down NASA budget for the ISS. He makes an interesting point that - contrary to the belief that the ISS is a NASA brainchild/braintrust - many countries have poured $billions$ into it's development and should thus have a say in whether there should be any cutbacks.
Read all about it here."
The ISS is all about polotics. If any [i]real[i] research is going on in space, it is carried out by individual countries.
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i'll probably get modded down to hell for saying this, but wouldn't the mind boggling amounts of money that get ploughed into the ISS be better spent on more, smaller, saner, more economical projects ones that do new/cool[tm] stuff? And what are the benefits (other than PR) of maintaining continuous presence in orbit anyway?
You at least knew they made the Canadarm, right?
I'm a bomb regardless
many countries have poured $billions$ into it's development
I think what you meant to say was that many countries have poured billions of Rubles, Drachmas, and Yen into the ISS project. Believe it or not, the world does not revolve around you Americans, even in the financial world. We still have our own currencies, so far.
Here's to hoping the ISS makes it,
EPD.
If guns kill people, then CmdrTaco's keyboard misspells words.
"Despite a year with a record number of space walks..."
Um, how many space walks have there been this year?
I don't see this article as saying that Canada is going to rescue anything. Rather, they are lining up along with Europe to complain (with some justice, since NASA is not upholding the ISS agreements as they currently stand). Now, I suppose if a nation complains enough and is willing to use this as a bargaining chip (e.g. in trade talks or whatever kind of talks matter to the US), then complaining becomes a kind of action. But a much more direct sort of rescue, a more obviously effective one, would be to come up with some funding. Europe once built a half-scale prototype of (some portions of) a crew return vehicle, but in recent years that activity has changed to "well, maybe we could build a few components for the US crew return vehicle, that would be cheaper. Well, is Europe prepared to build their own crew return vehicle? Or pay Russia to supply more Soyuzes?
The other amusing aspect of this whole thing is the number of times that the US has cancelled its part of a project (shuttle, partially; some science satellite in the 80's the name of which is at home; even Spacelab in a sense), and the fact that Europe (and other partners) fail to learn. It is like Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown time after time, and Europe seems to always line up for another kick. I guess Canada is now joining them.
Furthermore, as a Canadian taxpayer, I will naturally be asked to help decide who gets to be an astronaut. Moderators, you know what to do.
Carousel is a lie!
It's kinda pathetic that Terrorists blow something up, and governments start tossing money at militaries, and ignore their space programs. Maybe the terrorists are just using the ground stuff as a distraction, to launch their orbiting "laser" of death.
(begin rant)
Funding cuts that make it impossible to do research should not be made, since this is a research platform, after all. If they cut funding to this, just like they did with DS1 (story earlier today), then the entire scientific commmunity is going to be pissed. What is the point of putting up a multi-billion dollar space station if not to do something more than have it just sit there, with no experiments being done? That ticking sound is the time before this thing plunges into the ocean years from now. the only question is "what do we do with it until then?"
(/rant)
Remember, there were no nuclear weapons before women were allowed to vote.
"At least 2½[and a half] crew members are needed merely to operate the ISS."
Wouldn't it be safe to round that up?
Maybe the Japanese should have opted for a Mobile Suit Gundham instead of an Experiment Module Kibo.
Dear Will, the plums were poisoned. -- Cheese Club
You're absolutely right. Only an idiot would form opinions and stereotypes about about an entire country.
Although I support the efforts of the ISS and orbital research from what I've heard there is in fact not a lot of good research they can do in weightlessness. Personally I think it says something when you're accepting experiments from junior high schools to do in space that probably converts to thousands of dollars of time and resources on the part of the space agency. Does anyone know of useful research being conducted by astronauts (i.e. no Hubble or exploration vehicles) or that has been proposed?
I stole this Sig
... many countries have poured $billions$ into it's development and should thus have a say in whether there should be any cutbacks.
It seems to me that no country, business, person, or other entity should be obligated to continue paying unless a legally binding contract is in place to enforce such payment. In some jurisdictions, termination clauses are manditory for the contract to be considered legally binding.
What binding contract is in place that actually stipulates who is obligated to pay what amount for the ISS? Are contracts even relevant when the United States in concerned? For example, when was the last time the United States paid its membership dues in the United Nations? What about its compliance with greenhouse emissions agreements?
It seems to me, engaging the United States in a debate about cutbacks would be much like an ant trying to playing a game of chicken with a rhino. Being the resident superpower has its perks.
My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead, and that's the way I likes it!
I've never understood why Americans have this attitude that they are always better than anyone else around them.
Canada never had slavery.
Canada never had prohibition.
And Canada is your largest trading partner. Yes, your LARGEST. You depend on us too.
And starts a long history of going off and starting war while instating several military dictatorships. While Canada's ties to the monarchy are superficial and gives up membership in the commonwealth (we also didn't have to kill any one). By the way, remember the war of 1812;)
-Americans call themselves "Americans," as is their right.
Just don't do it anywhere else in the world if you don't want to get shot.
I stole this Sig
Welcome to the new NASA. Dubya is dumping Golden (love him or hate him, he WAS an engineer) to bring in a guy that is 100% bean counter. From a recent newspaper article (I think Houston Chronicle):
""...No one really knows what a finished station would cost. NASA said earlier this year that it faces a $4.8 billion shortfall over the next five years. Sean O'Keefe, nominated by President George W. Bush to become NASA administrator, testified Friday that he had no confidence in that number or any other estimate he had heard so far.
At the close of the hearing Friday, Mr. O'Keefe was asked an open-ended question: "What is your vision?"
.
Mr. O'Keefe spoke for several minutes about "prudent management principles," reinvigorating "the entrepreneurial spirits" of NASA, the importance of collaboration with other elements of the federal government, the need to be mindful of safety and the possibility of taking advantage of this moment when NASA is at a crossroads.
.
He did not mention space."
It seems to me that cutting back on astronauts now would be like buying a Porsche, then only driving it a few times in order to save on gas. The US has already committed huge amounts of money to this project, and cutting back now could severely limit the usefulness of the space station, making it a complete waste of money.
But it's true that NASA involvement is now crucial, and on that point the decision of Congress is sovereign. If you are a US voter and you disagree with Congress's decisions on NASA funding, you know what to do.
On the bright side, I don't think space is going to go away any time soon, and not only are there still many delightful things to explore on earth, outer space itself is becoming far more accessible in the form of robot probes and orbiting telescopes.
Whilst curtailment of the ISS would be bad news for manned space flight in the short term, I don't think it would necessarily be bad news for science as a whole. There is just so much else upon which it would be at least as sensible to spend the science budget of any country.
"Mr. O'Keefe is a budget hawk and has said he believes that technical excellence at any cost is not an acceptable approach by NASA.
This seems like a rather odd thing to say to the press... I would think if *I* was relying on NASA to do something in space, I would sure want "technical excellence" at any cost. This is not a walk in the park, it is space exploration, and attention DOES need to be paid to detail.
or am I wrong?
Moon Macrosystems. Sun's biggest competitor.
Actually, to gain true independance, Canadians had to kill an awful lot of people, and a lot of Canadians were killed.
It wasn't until WWI that Canada became truely accepted as an independant nation. (An Example of this is how Canada was pulled into the war without really having a say)
And the war of 1812, while it's amusing (with the burning of part of the white hourse and all by British and Canadian troops), it was much more of a stalemate than a clear victory for either side.
And yes, I'm Canadian.
Bah.
Too many people here are bashing USA, and saying "oh, we're better than USA because of *reason X* or *reason Y*"...
To those of you who are doing this, take a second and think. Are we really that much better? Do we have to take our argument to an international forum and play the patriot?
The USA, despite it's flaws, is not as bad as a lot of people think. If it was such a bad place, they'd have all moved out of there by now! Besides, the USA is where Megatokyo comes from, and it's also where a lot of anime and video games are distributed from.
And Canada HAS flaws. Sure, our Prime Minster, the Right Honourable Jean Chretien was seen choking and throwing a potential assailant... Sure, Matt Stone, Trey Parker, Chris Jericho, Alex Trebek, etc. come from Canada...
But to those who believe in the right to bear arms up here - we can't. To those who believe that we have freedom of speech? Freedom of the press? Not in Canada. The government can censor you if they so choose.
The point is: It's the holidays, friends. Break out the egg nog, or beer if you prefer, and let's celebrate life. We're friendly neighbors... why not ACT like it for a change? We should like each other despite our many flaws.
Happy Holidays to one and all.
And Canada is your largest trading partner. Yes, your LARGEST. You depend on us too.
Wow, I couldn't have asked for a more explicit example of the Canadian inferiority complex in action. I'm going to ask you to do something now. It may be hard, but just give it a try. Sit down, close your eyes, and relax. Let go of all your animosity towards America. Clear your mind. Then ask yourself: Is Canada more important to America than America is to Canada?
I think we both know the answer to that question.
I'd believe you :)
As someone who uses Linux at home, people would be amazed how many Canadian Linux-users are invading the internet.
This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker
"Japan's contribution is the Kibo, a laboratory to be launched and assembled on the ISS starting in September of 2004."
The name of that module is unfortunate on so many levels.
Do you ever get the feeling that if we just let G. Dubbya hang a few "lasers" off the ISS let him point them at caves where "terrorists" live the space station could have an unlimited budget?
That being said, I'd agreee with the poster who pointed out that the ISS is a huge expenditure compared to what we could do with many smaller projects, but I think it's necessary to have big prjects that are the culimination of the technology that's being devised. Classes that don't have final exams are always considered slacker classes because people don't have a goal to work towards, and the same thing could be said for space projects.
Where does the world get this opinion that Americans think they own the world? Every country has Nationalism flowing through their citizen's veins. I doubt you'll find any Japanese guy that doesn't say that Japan is great. Rephrase that for any country on the planet...except for maybe Afghanistan and some other third-world countries.
I theorize that it's because the way Americans act abroad. Generally the people that travel on vacation are rich assholes who don't know how to act HERE let alone anywhere else. I could be wrong, but that's my theory.
Whichever country has the trade deficit (a nation's excess of imports over exports) in the relationship would be the best indicator of that...and I'll give you a clue, it's not Canada ;)
I'll agree with you, mostly.
Part of the War of 1812 was to seal Canada from the USA. That failed. They tried to "liberate" us, but we didn't want to go..
On that point, we did win. On the getting the USA back under the control of the British, we failed.
And that whole burning of the White House, that was revenge for their burning York (Now Toronto).
God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
Sorry, should always include a link wih a post! See here for the figures in September 2001
While the...rest of the United States declares that almost all of the low gravity research to be done on the ISS has already been done on the ground.
-US takes the initiative to throw off the chains of an obsolete and oppressive monarchy.
Choosing instead to worship Topm Cruise, Gwyneth Paltrow and George Clooney.
That's okay! We'll just print more money to pay for it all! That's what Bush is doing with this stimulus plan, thats what we did to fund the war, hell lets just print more money for NASA too and solve all our problems, then in 2 years we can all sit back and drink our US$25 8oz can of coke and laugh at these times.
..There's a-dooin's a-transpirin'
But everything must be perfect, damn the cost... reminds me so much of *my* dot-com days. I watched in wonder as they ordered Sun 250's for each mail server - light duty servers at that. Everything else got 450's.
It was perfect - and we became dot.compost at the end of the year....
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
Hm, no...you try Fin du Monde, and I'll try Sierra Nevada.
Carousel is a lie!
Okay, so I misspelled "gundam." Is it really necessary to start casting aspersions on my hygiene?
Dear Will, the plums were poisoned. -- Cheese Club
The only ale that rates a 9.5 in my book is Moosehead. (and no, it doesn't taste like a pickled moose head)
It's better to burn out than to fade away
I think we'd both be up the creek if there was no trade between us!
Canada sucks.
America is great.
Everyone else sucks.
Fuck everyone else.
Did I miss one? I only wish it was possible to bring up **any** freaking topic that doesn't involve the USA without this dimwit ranting starting up.
The future of manned spaceflight depends on pan-national co-operation.
Have you seen the results of international cooperation? Everybody teaming up to try and put up a Low Earth Orbit space station, and finally getting hardware in orbit after 2 decades of redesigns, tens of billions of dollars of cost growth, United States delays that threatened European schedules, Russian delays that threatened American schedules... and the result just isn't that impressive, even for a space station.
What human spaceflight depends on, apparantly, is international competition. Russians orbiting the globe, "putting a man on the Moon and returning him safely to Earth before this decade is out", you know, that sort of thing?
We don't need Chinese astronauts on ISS, we need China building it's own space station in half the time... because apparantly there's nothing that motivates the American space program so well as being laughed at.
I hate to agree with the last guy as he is a complete idiot. The high school philosophy of who's better and who is not is pretty sad. I love the United States as much as anyone, but it doesn't mean that I can't appreciate our neighbors to the north and their importance to our economy and cultrue.
*However*
A trade deficit with a country usually means that the country with the deficit is buying more goods than it is shipping out, and is not indicative of dependence on another country but more indicative of deep pockets (or at least established credit).
By the way. The trade deficit of the US is down to it's lowest level in nine years. The market did not take this as good news. Why? Because it means that US citizens pockets just got a little shallower.
http://cincyboys.blogspot.com/ Everything Cincinnati. Including the word 'Finnih'
NASA must feel like a little kid when mommy and daddy are fighting in public.
I'm on Canada's side for sure. More power to them for giving NASA and the U.S. Congress the kick in the ass they deserved. NASA is an (somewhat) unwitting overspender and Congress is right to want to reduce their funds. But a committment was made. Backing down on that committment will have an exponentially dimishing effect on the project which equals a waste of the starting investment.
And it'll make the station less neat.
-DiggsBiggly
Instead of research, let's do some _construction_. Let's spend _more_ money and time and get a _permanent_ station out there. Once we do that, we can spend all the time we like with experements. Our priorities need to be construction and colonization, however. The time to start is now. We've completed the most successful prospecting mission ever (1969), and what have we done since? Squat. Sure, it's been the most profitable endevour humans have yet accomplished (in terms of lives and money saved, technologies developed, etc), but compared to what it _could_ be, it's nothing. We need to invest in space. Space and biotech. Those are two of the paths we need to travel, to have a chance at a future.
their rescue attempt will resemble this :)
Shh, shut up man. The minute the Americans find out about our massive trade surplus they will freak out and start trying to weasel out of NAFTA. Let them keep thinking their trade deficit is all the fault of the Japanese.
Of course trying to point out anything like that in this thread is useless because it's just flame anyway so I'll shutup ;-)
We'll be experiencing that shallowness of pocket too when the effect trickles through so that's not good news for us either :-(
There is nothing wrong with a good audit over NASA's budget. That budget is what a Butt Head Astronomer would describe as billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars. The Mars Climate Orbiter was just one obvious sign of NASA waste. Getting someone in the accounting field might just be able to help NASA maximize the funds it has and achieving more with the same.
Since the head of NASA is not going to greet the great beyond, he really need not be a scientist. Just someone who is effective running a massive organization funded by taxpayer dollars. As Dennis Tito has shown, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to make it into space. In fact, being good with money and budgets was what lead him to the stars.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
> Okay, so I misspelled "gundam." Is it really necessary to start casting aspersions on my hygiene?
:) I so hope you are the Attila from deviantart.com ...
Ahhh, attila, too funny!
"Old man yells at systemd"
Last time i checked the Internet was international. "/." is on the internet. there for it is an international website. I wish you ppl (bigoted americans) would realize that and how your attitude reflects on the rest on the world that reads these forums
The More Knowledge you have the Luckier you Get- J.R. Ewing
Also, while other countries may have poured billions of dollars (US) into the project, note that even according to the article this is a small percentage. The article states that the Canadian robot arm cost $1.4 billion and gives them 2.3 % of the research space. The European module is quoted as costing the same. That means Canada and Europe, total, have 4.6% of the research space. Assuming Japan's contribution isn't vastly more expensive, or there isn't some other big player the article didn't mention, that means about 90% of the research space, and presumably the budget, came from the US.
If there were treaties to prevent the US from doing this, then the US should be constrained by them. If not, the US should at least be willing to provide use of launching facilities and shuttles at a reasonable cost. But beyond that, pay up. "He who pays the piper calls the tune"--and that includes telling him to go away. Unless otherwise negotiated, the US has no obligation to let other people piggyback their space efforts on its own.
It is sad enough that we spend money on weapons at all in a time where people starve to death. Starvation and hygiene should be priority 1, research should be priority 2, and at the very end of the list, somewhere in the fine print, should be the military. Until we are enlightened enough not to need military at all, that is. I'm not holding my breath.
But only after two years while the US sits on the fence. Again.
Unfortunately, quite true. Spar's space robotics division was sold in 1999 to MacDonald Dettweiler, itself a subsidiary of Orbital Sciences Corporation. See:
http://www.mda.ca/news/pr/pr90507A.html
We screw up about 90% of the money we spend on land, and only about 50% of the money we send to space. Come on it doesn't take a statistics major to realize we might as well blow it on something worth the odds :)
We've grown too lazy to actually directly care where our money goes. It goes to interest groups who we assume will put it where it's needed, which is, granted, mainly attacking small 3rd world countries.
Too late. Apparently Americans only believe in free trade and open markets when it allows them to make Nikes in third world sweatshops. NAFTA is a complete fucking joke.
And I'll say it again: US-Government domination of space needs to end. Since the end of the cold war, NASA and, to a very small extent, its Russian counterpart have more or less ruled space. Sure, there've been a number of "private" or corporate launches, but all of them have come from Cape with a heavy kickback to NASA.
What is needed is for private corporations to take up the slack, building their own launch sites and launching their own whatevers. If this means corporate domination of space, then so be it. I would rather see the Microsoft Starship Gates make warp one than none at all.
io hymen hymnaee io
io hymen hymnaee
- Americans call themselves "Americans" as is their right
:).
- Candians would rather be called Candian to avoid being mistaken for "Americans" like this guy.
Having accents which most of the world can't pick from "Americans" like this guy has to be a big disadvantage (and I'm an Australian, we get mistaken for New Zealenders
To fight the problem would any Canadians care to point out what the differences in accent are (apart from the -ou- words like "house" and "about").
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
About time, eh? Oh, and bring a few of those gold colored coins with the mapleleaf on them too....
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Yawn. Of all the pathetic diatribes attempting to get Canadians "angry", this has to be one of the worst.
I think what we can say with certainty, is that Canadians tend to have serious inferiority complexes
The most telling part of this comment is the fact that you slam Canadians with your, err, "insightful" comments, and you're then claiming that WE have an inferiority complex. Wow. I think a little self-perspective is in order.
If my country's sole export was third rate comedians, I might feel inferior about it, too.
This is just so incredibly ignorant that it really puts the rest of the message into context (not that it wasn't already clear).
Wow, I couldn't have asked for a more explicit example of the Canadian inferiority complex in action...Let go of all your animosity towards America...Then ask yourself: Is Canada more important to America than America is to Canada?
Shit man, you're right. .
Canada has had one and exactly one valuable contribution to space travel and exploration, but it has been a fairly large one, this being the enormous robotic arms that the shuttle uses to manipulate large peces of debris and equipment in space. These things truly are masterpieces of modern engineering, and no other country manufactures them reliably. Canada's robot arms are also of a superior quality- enough for the US space program to use at least. Canada is apparently good for something after all (besides being entertaining to taunt on a regular basis).
He makes an interesting point that - contrary to the belief that the ISS is a NASA brainchild/braintrust . ISS is a NASA goal (to the extreme detriment to what I would argue should be the real focus, probes going out to learn about the solar system. On top of that, not only are we sinking 100+ Billion dollors on this (100x the contribution of any other country... and for good measure we are covering most of the soviet's costs as well), we are cutting programs that would go out and examine the Kuiper belt, the sun, etc.
Think of what kind of knowledge we could gain. Long term space research? bzzt. Soviets already did that. Radation effects on humans? bzzt.
The entire problem is that this space station was created by the state department and congress rather then the scientists. ISS? What ever happened to freedom and liberty the first names of this project.
Screw the space station. Give us a workable re-usable launcher and the NGST.
And in return, you have not had to worry about your borders from outside threat since 1865.
At least, that is the only conclusion one can draw from reading this particular article. The USA already not only pays it's own chunk (90+ % of the total cost), it pays Russia's as well (since their science agencies defaulted). Some truth in advertising in the header might be helpfull. Or perhaps the Canadian govt now thinks that it can appropriate american funds (esp when the Space station will be 5+ billion dollors over this year alone).
Its pretty difficult to do anything involving the USA that doesn't involve dimwit ranting.
"Total Program Estimate $37.1$39.4 B (range)" - ISS factbook 2000-10
"Draws significant financial support from the partner nations, which will collectively add more than $10 billion to the U.S. contribution." - ISS factbook 1999-07
Maybe I'm just uninformed, but it seems to me that by leaving space exploration to the egg-heads at these govt science agencies, we are not making the kind of progress a more ambitious goal-oriented approach might produce.
In the 60's man went to the moon. The moon! Many times. We haven't been back in decades.
Why is there no base on the moon? Why aren't there more space stations in orbit? I think part of the reason is that the focus is on doing dumb experiments instead of just building these facilities as rapidly as possible.
The shuttle was a big step forward. Mir was a big step forward. The ISS will benefit from both these achievements. What I object to is reading quotes from guys at McGill University who are getting bucks to do research on reflexes in space. This is idiotic when we still need lots of money to put more facilities and equipment up there.
I figure you could spend all your money every year on pure research science. And I think you'd get a lot out of it. But it should be remembered that it was guys like Columbus, Hudson and Cook who made the big discoveries of the last exploratory period. Guys who went and did what they wanted to do to see if they could. They weren't sailing ships filled with lab rats and experiments. They wanted to see what was around the next corner, see if they could get there, and see if they could settle there. I don't understand why this spirit has been lost.
Goals need to be set. ISS completion by 2005. Base on the moon by 2010. Man on Mars by 2015. Base on Mars by 2020. Let's get a move on.
Well I suppose the US robot arms are so much better.
Truly, the way the Canadarm crawls around the outside hull of the station is amazing.
--
Marc A. Lepage
Software Developer
Honestly, if there is one thing that should bring us together, it should be space. Lets look at it this way...
If another nation doesn't lie our space program and gets competitive the way you say, then how long do you think it would take to ruin several lives and billions in real investment?
Fifteen minutes? Ten minutes with the a really good shot?
C'mon. Space is hostile, and requires people to go up there and live in harmony, or otherwise they all die. It is humanity's pioneer spirit. Don't blow it by saying one country is a bunch of deadbeats... or that they should be in competition when it comes to THE WHOLE PLANET.
That is truly a pathetic thought from a pessimist.
When you accuse a nation of being arrogant to look after its self-interests, that's really funny.
Hilarious!
I am not quite sure what kind of strong drugs you are smoking when you accuse the USA of being too pro-USA, and the rest of Europe, China, Russia, and every other nation in the world to be a good neighbor. I don't care where the hell you are from, no one is a good neighbor in international politics. I love you nationalists. You're all such morons that you'll be the ones that drive the whole world in the ground for your personal greed. It'll be fun. Honest. Its working in the USA. And because you're not a US citizen, you're obviously part of God's chosen fucking people.
Yes we can have it both ways. You can too. Being a bunch of duplicitous bastards is the de facto behavior in international affairs.
Just do me a big fucking favor... don't think your people are not fucking over everyone else to get what they want. That is the attitude of fools.
Please tell me what country you are from... then we'll start talking about fairness, holy man.
"We're not impressed. We don't even care. Like every other nation on earth, we ignore you." - Anonymous Coward And then people whonder why the heck people hate the United States? It's because of people like this, who don't give a damn about anyone else. I know lots of people from the U.S. that I get along fine with, but people like this who act like inconsiderate fools and seem to go out of their way to incur the wrath of others are probably the biggest factor in the horrible stereotype given to the 'States.
My bad ;)
Drone, drone, drone.
I don't think our country is second rate. (Also, it helps if you could actually use proper sentence structure and grammar, but I won't nitpick).
The U.S. doesn't give us jack shit for scraps. Rather, they send us tons of mega corporations, buy out our hockey teams and athletes, and attempt a hostile corporate takeover of the rest of the civilized world. They're essentially Microsoft under a different name.
Plus, we contribute lots of other stuff besides alcoholism. We contribute... hockey... and uh... booze... and uh... curling. Yep. Curling.
One other thing, and this has been bugging me for a long time...
Explain to me why the hell Americans need the little glowing trail to follow the puck in hockey? Why can't they follow a black puck on a white ice surface, but have NO PROBLEM following a fast moving white ball (small, for golf; medium-sized, for baseball) moving along a green/brown (grass or dirt) surface? I mean, come on!
Since it was modded down, I'll repost it, so more can see it...
Coming where it comes from...
Marc Garneau's former wife was found dead, along with her lover in a car whose windows was cracked open and a hose was run from the exhaust to the window...
And another can-adian ass-tronaut, a medical doctor, failed to take care of her wife during her pregnancy. So she skipped important tests, and the offspring is retarded. Nothing unusual here, except that the fucking asshole, upon hearing the bad news, squarely put the blame on her and cancelled the shower party.
Even worse, when the family was posted to Houston so the ass-tronaut could do his training, the canadian space agency refused to pay for the special care the baby needed. Needless to say, their salaries were insufficient to pay for this, so the ass-tronauts had to go on strike until the agency funded the special care for the baby.
And, lastly, the second canadian woman in space, Julie Payette, caused an american astronaut's wife strike: since the hot bitch screwed her way to the top, there was no way the chaste american astronaut's wifes would trust their beloved husbands along with that slut, so they went on strike, too, and NASA then said that the hot bitch wouldn't go in orbit.
But, politics being politics, since she is french and a woman, she had to go and the canadian ambassator to the US (the brother of canadian prime sinister Jean Chrétien [buzz.ca]) personally asked Billy Boy (this was before Dubya?) to override NASA's concern for the chastity of their crews.
So, the hot bitch finally went up...
Ain't canadian space politics fun???? (but the baby's doin' fine, though).
>The main reasons besides public image are to gain engineering skill in building large, long-term habitats in space, and to figure out how to keep people in space without having their health deteriorate as it does now.
I agree. Its not the science stupid its the engineering. Science missions do squat to teach us how to do the engineering of taking people to other planets. I love science dont get me wrong but I still want to stand on mars before I die.