International Space Station: Canada to the Rescue?

Apostata writes "The following story from the Globe and Mail outlines a proposal of the head of the Canadian Space Agency to seek renewed funding for the recently stripped-down NASA budget for the ISS. He makes an interesting point that - contrary to the belief that the ISS is a NASA brainchild/braintrust - many countries have poured $billions$ into it's development and should thus have a say in whether there should be any cutbacks. Read all about it here."

Comments

Canada has a space agency

[slendle84]

Where have i been hiding?

Re:Canada has a space agency

[Bomb Regardless]

You at least knew they made the Canadarm, right?

Re:Canada has a space agency

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't matter where you've been hiding, the United States refuses to believe that anything of value could come from 'that big cold place, with all those socialists'. Canada has created many things, but people just attach 'Made in United States' to everything made in North America, Canadian or not.

The first part of ISS, is International.. perhaps the rest of the United States should pull their collective heads from their asses and realized that they are just a small part of the world.

Re:Canada has a space agency

[lyphordt]

Who do you suppose built the Canada arm for the space shuttle???

Re:Canada has a space agency

[Nastard]

You're absolutely right. Only an idiot would form opinions and stereotypes about about an entire country.

Re:Canada has a space agency

[Anonymous Coward]

the US at guess.

Re:Canada has a space agency

[Reikk]

Canada donates a lot of money to IIS - but it turns out it was in Canadian money, so it really only amount to about $17 real dollars.

Have there been any studies linking the cold weather in Canada to thier low IQs? Canada is the number one creator of retarted children, and Canadian women are among the ugliest in the world.

Re:Canada has a space agency

[Anonymous Coward]

Spar is now owned by an american company.

Re:Canada has a space agency

[Anonymous Coward]

It's wrong to judge a country you haven't been to...that's what people in Russia do!

Sir T. Bampson

Re:Canada has a space agency

[Anonymous Coward]

Coming from a septic, that's fucking rich!
OOH! I think I see a "terrorist" hiding in Girly-Sue's woodshed. Let's get all liquored up and ride in a whoopin' and a hollerin' and kick his commie ass. Fuck you and your irrelevant country. As soon as the United European Army is formally announced I'm signing up.

And UP YOURS, Cletus-clones. Jesus, the way you ponce about you'd think everyone was impressed by you. You're fucking lucky you're tolerated.

Re:Canada has a space agency

[Retarded_One]

United European Army

They will kick America's ass, just like in WW2!!!

Re:Canada has a space agency

[Glytch]

But only after two years while the US sits on the fence. Again.

Re:Canada has a space agency

[levork]

Unfortunately, quite true. Spar's space robotics division was sold in 1999 to MacDonald Dettweiler, itself a subsidiary of Orbital Sciences Corporation. See:
http://www.mda.ca/news/pr/pr90507A.html

Re:Canada has a space agency

[Anonymous Coward]

and now it is called MD Robotics which is 100% owned by Canadians.

Polotics

[fishybell]

The ISS is all about polotics. If any [i]real[i] research is going on in space, it is carried out by individual countries.

Re:Polotics

[DivineOb]

[f]don't[u] [c]be[k] [y]a[o] [u]fag[!]

Re:Polotics

[suffocate]

these things are neat

Re:Polotics

[CmdrTaco on]

If something goes wrong with the space station then at least we have a scapegoat.

Blame Canada! With those beady little eyes and flapping heads!

Re:Polotics

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess polotics is the chief activity of a polotical organization. (Try "paulotics": That's phonetic, too.)

first

[GaylordFucker]

hi i 0wn Klerck's izzhole

Re:first

[I.H.S.W.R.K.]

Nobody can own Klerck's asshole, it is free for all cummers just like the air and the water and the trees

very true, but...

[TheM0cktor]

i'll probably get modded down to hell for saying this, but wouldn't the mind boggling amounts of money that get ploughed into the ISS be better spent on more, smaller, saner, more economical projects ones that do new/cool[tm] stuff? And what are the benefits (other than PR) of maintaining continuous presence in orbit anyway?

Re:very true, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

If it takes a continuous presence in the region to bring it stability, I think a small measure of funding is warranted.

Re:very true, but...

[zorgon]

I sincerely hope you don't get modded down, because what you are saying is a very valid position that has been held by many, many scientists around the world but has been utterly ignored by the political backers of the project. The ISS is a great technology testbed and research platform, but should not be funded at the expense of (for example) research on climate change and its implications. But, that is exactly what is occurring. It was predicted years ago, it has come true.

Re:very true, but...

[s20451]

Let me suggest to you that useful but boring space research gets done because we also do exciting but expensive things. That is, it's hard to get the public interested in a fleet of Earth-orbiting atmospheric science satellites, but human spaceflight galvanizes the public interest enough that a few hundred million can sneak past for other, more scientifically interesting research.

I also think that the money spent on the ISS is worth it if the only thing it proves is that a massive international space project requiring detailed co-operation from former military adversaries is even possible. (PS: I'm all for letting the Chinese get on board too). The future of manned spaceflight depends on pan-national co-operation.

Re:very true, but...

[RollingThunder]

I can think of two simple benefits off the top of my head.

First, you can have experiments that are easily monitored, altered, and corrected. It's probably cheaper to have an astronaut do the work than to design (and pay for the lift of) the mechanics to do so.

Second, by having experiments inside the permanent structure of the station, you don't need to reproduce the wheel every time you send up an experiment (shielding for radiation and dust, airtight containment, temperature control, etc etc). The station provides all that.

A lot of this could be done with the shuttle - but only as long as it doesn't take too long. I think the max time on orbit for a shuttle is only a couple of weeks, but I'm probably way off. Using the station, you can run a three month long experiment or more... which is really handy if you're studying something like the effect of microgravity on successive generations bred and raised in it.

(As an aside, how they get the mice to have sex in zero g, I'll never figure out. ;) )

Re:very true, but...

[charon_on_acheron]

"(As an aside, how they get the mice to have sex in zero g, I'll never figure out. ;) )"

There was a female comedian in the 60's named Rusty Warren (baudy, burlesque style humor). One of her albums has "Rusty Warren in Orbit" and it covered a few of those areas. Unscientifically, unfortunately. She said she would "have to tie a brick to his fanny to keep him from falling off" if I remember correctly. Of course, we know the brick would be in free fall too, so it wouldn't help. But she had great delivery, so we could overlook those things.

Re:very true, but...

[aallan]

I guess I'm going to get modded down for this, but don't get me wrong, I'd love to find a good justification for the manned space program. However, the current scientific program, and the ISS, isn't it...

...you can have experiments that are easily monitored, altered, and corrected. It's probably cheaper to have an astronaut do the work than to design (and pay for the lift of) the mechanics to do so.

Unfortunately there are very few experiments that we've been able to think of that really require an astronaut, most could be done cheaper without the human interferance.

...by having experiments inside the permanent structure of the station, you don't need to reproduce the wheel every time you send up an experiment (shielding for radiation and dust, airtight containment, temperature control, etc etc). The station provides all that.

But you do have to shield ever (delicate) experiment against the humans and the gunk that they produce. That costs.

A lot of this could be done with the shuttle...

The shuttle was, and is, a dead end, and alot of the community argued against it. We should have stuck with disposables until we figured out how to build something that really was SSTO. Unfortunately we still haven't managed it...

Al.

Re:very true, but...

[TheM0cktor]

The shuttle was, and is, a dead end, and alot of the community argued against it. We should have stuck with disposables until we figured out how to build something that really was SSTO. Unfortunately we still haven't managed it...

sadly true. The shuttle could have been a prelude to something much better but thats never materialised. I think the problem deep down is that ever since the apollo program ended the adventurous spirit has gone out of space. Sure a lot of good science is still done but its not quiet, gently paced research that makes the world sit up and think.

I'd dare to suggest the only thing that would rekindle a worldwide interest in people going into space would be something extravagant. Mars perhaps, or at least back to the moon.

Re:very true, but...

[I.T.R.A.R.K.]

"i'll probably get modded down to hell for saying this"

You slack-jawed faggot. Post with some confidence, or you will get modded down.

Re:very true, but...

[nmos]

"Let me suggest to you that useful but boring space research gets done because we also do exciting but expensive things. That is, it's hard to get the public interested in a fleet of Earth-orbiting atmospheric science satellites, but human spaceflight galvanizes the public interest enough that a few hundred million can sneak past for other, more scientifically interesting research."

In other words the ISS is a really expensive advertising campaign?

Re:very true, but...

[Garak]

I think the problem is that they are limiting the design too much. It should be a base of operations for everything that goes on in low earth orbit and beyond.

For example they should have enough tools on board to fix anything in LEO so when something like the hubbel telescope has problems they don't have to spend millions on a trip up just to fix it. They just send the parts along on a normal resupply mission to the ISS and then when the orbits of the hubble and the ISS match up they send out a small robot of somesort to get it. It seems to me that this would be alot cheeper than doing two seperate trips.

Back on topic for a second projects like the ISS give countries like us here in Canada access to space. We don't have the money nor the launch faclities to send our own space craft into space so partnerships like the ISS are very important for us.

Fighting the whole world because someone knocked two of your buildings down is taking too much money away from your space program. Here is a better solution, don't build huge buildings that fall down easily build many small buildings and spead them out a little.
[/rant]

Re:very true, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd argue the opposite.

The problem with the US space program is that it keeps trying to produce another Apollo, when the funds and political will just aren't there, and starts a project hoping it will come together.

First was the Space Shuttle, a remarkable technical achievement but an absolute, abject, total failure at what it was intended to be: a means of reducing the cost of reaching LEO. Largely due to (a) a cost-constricted compromise design (b) building a fleet of the things to try to get the numbers to add up by amortising the cost over satellite launchings. All it's done is become an albatros around the neck of the US space program because of its high launch costs.

One shuttle should have been built as an experimental ship and if the money was not forthcoming for that the idea abandoned and work on new-generation disposable launchers continued (lack of which of course giving Arianespace its critical opportunity).

Anyone remember that idiotic idea of "Success-oriented management" used in the Shuttle program? That's right; on something pushing the technological boundaries on several fronts assume everything is going to work first time! The US lost Skylab because of that (assuming that the Shuttle would be available for a late '70's reboost mission).

Second we've had the ISS. I'm not so surprised at the cost of the thing now it's actually being built; what I can't understand is how NASA spent *billions* on paper study after paper study after paper study before the final configuration was established. And even that is proving to be too bleeding edge and hence impossible to predict costs for. It should not have been begun if it was obvious that it was beyond the state of the art in project management and cost containment.

Meanwhile, on a comparitive shoestring and using disposable launchers the Russians had working space stations in orbit continuously from the 1970's to 1990's. They're still using the same Soyez capsule from the early '60's and the same rocket that launched Sputnick. Not state-of-the-art but adequate, reliable, well-proven and, with costs amortised over decades, cheap.

NASA - less technical ambition and more focus on what exactly you're trying to achieve, please? No more focussing on kewl means rather than ends and constraints? Could you please focus on the 80% you can do with 20% of the expenditure, like the Russians did? If O'Keefe pushes them down these lines, rather than just act as a mad axeman, he could be the best thing to happen to the agency since Apollo.

Re:very true, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

You could do an awful lot of other science for $100 billion...

Re:very true, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

(As an aside, how they get the mice to have sex in zero g, I'll never figure out. ;) )

What I wonder is, how they keep the _people_ from having sex in zero g.

Re:very true, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

your points are intersting and somewhat valid:

it is *our* (the US's) money. We can and should
use it as appropriate for our citizens. if you (e.g. Canada) can't afford such an extravagance, then you should reconsider getting involved with it.

Re:very true, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm.. they don't, and havn't...
There was a husband/wife couple up in zero G for a while (don't remember if it was in the shuttle or the station/MIR) and they "experimented" a bit.

Seems to me their conclusion was it was fun, but a lot of work :P

Re:very true, but...

[Pxtl]

Part of the problem was that the apollo program crippled the SSTO projects. All the best scientists that were working on jet aircraft became involved in rocketry. Look at the SR-71 - its very existence at the time would be like M-16's in world war one. Its a marvel of engineering. Getting one of those things into space seems almost like no big deal - and yet they lost all that when they decided they needed everyone to work one a big fscking missile. I'm not saying the Apollo project was a bad idea, it was the best PR space could get, and besides it was just *right* to do it. But still, something might have been lost in the process, something with more long-term gain. The shuttle isn't even cheaper - most disposable rocket launches are unmanned just for launching satellites, and they do that way cheaper then the shuttle.

Yes, if you want it, you'll have to support it

[Anonymous Coward]

And don't let America's generosity in the past get in the way of financing these things in the future yourselves. We have to let you sink or swim on your own at some point. Don't worry, we'll be right next to you the whole way.

Re:Yes, if you want it, you'll have to support it

[Anonymous Coward]

And here's a hearty fuck you to all condescending shithehad americans like you everywhere! Merry Christmas, jackass.

Re:Yes, if you want it, you'll have to support it

[kellin]

Why the fuck is this marked "informative"? There's nothing informative about this post. I'd mark it troll, myself. Jackass indeed.

Re:Yes, if you want it, you'll have to support it

[Anonymous Coward]

And don't let America's generosity in the past get in the way
Don't make me loose my lunch.
Sheesh, what a ego.

Kikes

[Ralph JewHater Nader]

Billions eh? You know the jews are funding the ISS, they're using it to spy on everyone from outer space. This backstabbing zionism must be stopped!

USA sucks my hairy anus-rumples

[Anonymous Coward]

It's true. We set them up for failure.

USA SUCKS!!!

woot.

groovy

[sulli]

now we can fleece the Canadian taxpayers for this mega-boondoggle.

Jingoism again?

[Exmet Paff Daxx]

many countries have poured $billions$ into it's development

I think what you meant to say was that many countries have poured billions of Rubles, Drachmas, and Yen into the ISS project. Believe it or not, the world does not revolve around you Americans, even in the financial world. We still have our own currencies, so far.

Here's to hoping the ISS makes it,
EPD.

Re:Jingoism again?

[Dimwit]

No, but Slashdot is an American site, and most of its readers are American. I'm European, but I don't expect Slashdot to put, every time it discusses anything international, every single possible variation on the phrase.

I'm also a little upset with people bitching that the US has limited everyone's access to the ISS. The US has poured far more money into it than any other participant, AND has had to cover for things when other members (Russia, mainly) defaulted on debts. So don't act like it's just the Americans' fault.

Re:Jingoism again?

[Aheinz1]

Sheesh, give it a break. It's obvious that he meant that they have spent what translates into billions of US dollars. If you were nitpicking, you could have at least pointed out the missplaced apostraphe. ;-)

Re:Jingoism again?

[MindStalker]

Yea, exactly, and the exchange rate is shit. So total contributions are equal to what? $1.95?

Re:Jingoism again?

[Apostata]

"I think what you meant to say was..."

Actually, I meant to say what I did. You infer via paranoia that I'm implying that there's only one currency in the world and that it's all a plot to subjugate your philosophy...which has nothing to do with the subject of the article or outer-space in general.

For the record, I'm Canadian. Get stuffed.

Re:Jingoism again?

[thelexx]

Oh right. Forgetting for a moment that this is an AMERICAN website and that the author of the article was likely implying billions after _conversion_, the article should have read:

"many countries have poured billions of drachmas, kopeks, dong, won, yen, pesetas, rubles, rupees, lira, marks, pounds, franks, krones, shillings, pesos, punts, baht, yuan, taka and polished beads into it's development..."

Give me a break.

LEXX

Re:Jingoism again?

[Anonymous Coward]

Christ, another hypersensitive European with an inferiority complex.

Re:Jingoism again?

[bleckywelcky]

What I interpreted that statement to say was that other countries have spent the equivalent of billions of U.S. dollars on these programs. Not that they have spent billions of Yen, etc, but rather trillions or whatnot of Yen, etc, when you do the conversions. It seems as though the Slashdot crew sees their community, and their influence primarily American, and so they adjusted the information to regard Americans. I think it was just a way to get a perspective on other country's contributions for a major portion of the Slashdot community, rather than a bias towards American contribution or whatever.

Re:Jingoism again?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's good to know there are plenty of reasonable Canadians on slashdot. SubtleNuance has been giving you guys a bad name.

Re:Jingoism again?

[Anonymous Pancake]

Have you ever noticed how fucking ugly american girls are? I had to stay in florida for a few days before going to the carribean, and I was amazed at how many fat chicks there are. And it's a wounder how they got so fat in the first place, because the food is absolutely terrible!

Re:Jingoism again?

[Apostata]

Can't say I've heard of him/her. I'll keep an eye open :)

Re:Jingoism again?

[Nastard]

Exactly. This is a site run by Americans, and Americans know how much a dollar is worth. It's easy for Americans to understand that a billion dollars is a lot of money. However, if it said "billions of pesos", most of us would have been slightly confused, as the value of a peso is not common knowledge.

I'm sure this will lead to someone blaming Americans for being uncultured in not learning the value of every other currency on the planet.

Re:Jingoism again?

[ShadeEagle]

Keeping in mind... if Slashdot WERE to post EVERY form of currency invested into the ISS, the story would be about 3 times longer than it need be.

Besides... The US Dollar IS the de facto standard on which all other currencies are compared to.

Proud to be Canadian, but mindful of the rest of the world.

Re:Jingoism again?

[Anonymous Coward]

They are waaay more canadians here than you think, I'd say 10% of /.

Re:Jingoism again?

[Afrosheen]

True dat. What are a billion pesos worth these days? $100 dollars?

Re:Jingoism again?

[Anonymous Coward]

billions of $ ~= billions of
us Europens are happy.
Billions of $ ~= more yen.

Re:Jingoism again?

[rtaylor]

> For the record, I'm Canadian. Get stuffed

Way too much AirFarce for you.

Re:Jingoism again?

[Retarded_One]

I am from China, and I am sorely lacking at your dissappointment of our currency!

Sometimes my english is not good so!!!

Re:Jingoism again?

[Apostata]

Would you believe I've never watched an episode?

Re:Jingoism again?

[Anonymous DWord]

Look it up yourself, ya damn slacker!

http://www.xe.com/ucc/

1,000,000,000.00 Mexico Pesos = 109,887,985.53 United States Dollars

1 MXN = 0.109888 USD
1 USD = 9.10018 MXN

Close though.

Re:Jingoism again?

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah, and that sucks...
i'm yet to find a site (geek site) that's not tied to a specific country. slashdot.int anyone?
(if that's impossible, slashdot.ca would do just fine ;) )

Re:Jingoism again?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you want to see ugly women, you should visit England some time.

Re:Jingoism again?

[geraldkw]

Yea! it wasn't our fault this time!

Silly American Person

P.S. I won't say it, it's too easy.

Re:Jingoism again?

[rhombic]

Yes, billions of rubles and $Canadien. Totals out to about $14.92, right?

Re:Jingoism again?

[csmiller]

From xe.com
1 USD = 012.251 ZAR (South African Rand)
1 USD = 128.094 JPY (Japaness Yen)
1 USD = 001.109 EUR (Euro)
1 USD = 000.687 GBP (Pounds Sterling)
Damn /. doesnt support <PRE>
Looks like the greenback isn't as strong as you think...
just my tupence worth...

Re:Jingoism again?

[MindStalker]

It was a joke man. Settle down.

Re:Jingoism again?

[polar red]

The US Dollar is the de facto standard on which all other currencies are compared to.
But Euro will be the new one. remember US has 275 million inhabitants: EU has 450 million.

Hmm...

[appleprophet]

"Despite a year with a record number of space walks..."

Um, how many space walks have there been this year?

Re:Hmm...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've personally performed 23 moon walks since Jan. 1, 2001. Much to the delight of my three remaining fans.

Michael Jackson

Re:Hmm...

[Anonymous Coward]

I spacewalked the other day. Went to denny's, had some toast and jam. I took the long way.

Re:Hmm...

[maladroit]

Looks like about 30.

When we have to send ISS down into the Pacific

[Anonymous Coward]

Blame Canada! Blame Canada!

Noone to the rescue, yet

[kingdon]

I don't see this article as saying that Canada is going to rescue anything. Rather, they are lining up along with Europe to complain (with some justice, since NASA is not upholding the ISS agreements as they currently stand). Now, I suppose if a nation complains enough and is willing to use this as a bargaining chip (e.g. in trade talks or whatever kind of talks matter to the US), then complaining becomes a kind of action. But a much more direct sort of rescue, a more obviously effective one, would be to come up with some funding. Europe once built a half-scale prototype of (some portions of) a crew return vehicle, but in recent years that activity has changed to "well, maybe we could build a few components for the US crew return vehicle, that would be cheaper. Well, is Europe prepared to build their own crew return vehicle? Or pay Russia to supply more Soyuzes?

The other amusing aspect of this whole thing is the number of times that the US has cancelled its part of a project (shuttle, partially; some science satellite in the 80's the name of which is at home; even Spacelab in a sense), and the fact that Europe (and other partners) fail to learn. It is like Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown time after time, and Europe seems to always line up for another kick. I guess Canada is now joining them.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

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Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[Anonymous Coward]

Your second paragraph is dead right.

The probe, by the way, was to be a US equivalent to Ulysses, so that ESA and NASA would have a probe going over a different pole of the Sun at the same time. We've lost a lot of science to that decision.

There is a difference in attitude between the US and Europe/Canada/Japan. To the latter international treaties are binding documents; they are the *last* thing to go if you're having problems. (Look at the unsuccessful efforts the British made to get out of Concorde...)

The USA, on the other hand, is the centre of the universe, the new Middle Kingdom, and treaties with other, inferior, nations are the *first* thing to be broken if The Land of The Free is getting squeezed. Or even if they aren't and just don't feel like it (Kyoto, landmines, NMD...). Meanwhile everyone else is expected to dance to their tune.

Basically the Americans are a bunch of selfish, arrogant, isolationist pricks who are not to be trusted in any transnational agreement.

Hopefully this has now hit home with ESA. Two reasons:

1. the cost and high public profile of this FUBAR
2. Canada and Japan have been shafted as well.

I hope what we will see is these nations teaming up with Russia and China to build an alternate station to the brain-damaged political football of the ISS and become a new independent force in space exploration.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[terrymr]

The different parts that were to be supplied by the nations involved in the ISS were agreed in a treaty document signed by all members. So far the US has reneged on this deal in three areas :

1)The crew return vehicle
2)The engine necessary to sustain the orbit of iss (instead we're relying on the shuttle for this)
3)The number of supply flights

I haven't heard of anybody else not supplying what they agreed to (sure the russians were late with one component but they came through in the end). So therefore the concerns raised by Canada, Japan & Europe seem to be valid.

Why should the other nations pour more money into it when they've already seen their scientific programs destroyed by the US dragging their feet.

If we want the lead role on this project it's we're going to have to pay the price for having the lead role.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[SectoidRandom]

It's good to hear some non-US centric views get some +1 mod's here, (as opposed to -1 flamebait) I agree almost completly with you, especially regarding international treaties. The US tends to do exactly what is good for the US, and _nothing_ more. Although I'll add thats completly understandable, (coming from a confessed arrogant bastard :]) but you cant have it both ways, no matter how big you are. In other words for example, you cant push for a free-open world economy, while raising your tarrifs because your farmers are protesting.

/hide

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[Anonymous Coward]

Kyoto was never ratified by the US Senate, the landmine treaty was never signed AFAIK and certainly was never ratified, and the ABM treaty had provisions for withdrawl which were followed.

I don't agree with all of the steps Bush has taken, but he hasn't violated any treaty.

Good luck starting a station with Russia, BTW. Their inability to complete on one of the huge ISS modules is a big reason why the project was overbudget and FUBAR, and why it's biting NASA in the ass now.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[Anonymous Coward]

The US tends to do exactly what is good for the US, and _nothing_ more.

Please explain why the US spent half a century under the threat of nuclear attack so Europe wouldn't be invaded by Stalin or his successors, when we could have just thrown you to the communist wolves. Throw Taiwan and South Korea into the mix too. Or the whole Yugoslavian mess that the Europeans couldn't seem to handle - not much vital US interests there. Or intervening in Somalia for humanitarian reasons.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[ink]

I hope what we will see is these nations teaming up with Russia and China to build an alternate station to the brain-damaged political football of the ISS and become a new independent force in space exploration.

What a joke. Nothing, and I mean absolutely NOTHING, is preventing Russia, China, Canada, Japan, et all from doing this RIGHT NOW. It's easy to kick the US when we're in a recession, involved in a war and just suffered billions in unilateral damages; and yet we are still the major funding for the ISS. I would be overjoyed if other nations would actually DO something other than bitch, like you seem content to do. Russia, for their part, have done extraordianary things with ISS (not to mention Mir), and I applaud them.

Legislation in the USA changes from year to year just like in other nations, Everyone Knows Best(tm) how to spend the GNP, and NASA is just one such agency. Personally, I would love to fund NASA much more than it currently is funded, but I live in a democracy and I realize that my priorities don't coincide with many other Americans (much less with Canadians or Japanese). In short: there is no conspiracy, we don't rise every day thinking "How can I screw the rest of the world" -- the reality is quite the contrary.

The sad thing is, in other forums we hear the exact opposite, but coincidental rant: "Why does the US spend so much god-damned money on NASA, they should be spending all that money on AIDS research" or the ever-classic "The space program just pollutes, we could spend that money on more green technologies that will benefit everyone." It is tiresome, to say the least.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[Anonymous Coward]

I haven't heard of anybody else not supplying what they agreed to (sure the russians were late with one component but they came through in the end).

That's because the US footed the bill.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[Pxtl]

That was self-interest. The US stands to lose out if an international alliance against them gains control of Europe. Soviets with german and british engineering would have been a Bad Thing for the US.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[Anonymous Coward]

It wasn't worth nuclear annihilation.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[martinschrder]

So Coke and Pepsi can be sold around the world.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, I'll file that one right after the "4000 Jews didn't go to work in the WTC on Sept. 11" in the crackpot conspiracy cabinet.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[lfourrier]

Concerning respect of internationnal treaties by US, I should say that your point of view seems incomplete.
Remember that the reason the DMCA is here is (officially) to comply with internationnal treaty, so...
Another point completely different : from my european background, I have the biggest dificulties to reconcile the hyper-chauvinism of americans with their permanent bitching against their governement. To me, it seems they should be proud of being american with their leaders, or not so proud of a country who is unable to produce different leaders.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[nicklott]

In other words for example, you cant push for a free-open world economy, while raising your tarrifs because your farmers are protesting.

But they do....

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[nicklott]

It's about time non-US goverments started to do things themselves. They don't need the US to sign up to every treaty. Kyoto could go ahead perfectly well without them (though maybe not the Missile Defence one....). Eventually I think they would just be shamed by their citizens into signing, or at least conforming with, the treaty anyway.
If other governments start to ignore the US they, may start to change their isolationist views: you can't be isolated and still have global influence...

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[marduk00]

Have any of the complaining countries lined up to fund the project, besides what they have spent on their lab they want to be a part of ISS? I don't see why they can't give NASA $$$ to shoot their lab and some techs to install it. Similar to the rich funding Russia's space program in exchange for a ride into space. It's not like Canada or Japan have a space shuttle fleet they maintain and fund for launches.

Marduk

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[csmiller]

Kyoto is an agreement for all countries to return to 1990 levels of producing CO2. It takes serious investment of money to achive this, so if the US doesn't, but all the other industrialised nations do, then the US has a major trading advantange (unless the WTO sactions tarrifs against the US, which I'd doubt will happen). The US saying they won't ratifiy Kyoto almost caused the Japanese not to, which would have caused all other contries in turn to pull out. Global warming is global problem, all countries need to take action to prevent it.
BTW The USA produces more CO2 per captia that all the other industrilised countries.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[Kris Warkentin]

Horse shit. EVERYONE is in a recession because the US economy drags everyone down with them remember? Billions of dollars of unilateral damage? Wah wah wah.... Your country has so much money it can take hits like that and not even flinch. Most of the countries in the ISS project are way worse off than the States.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[nicklott]

The USA produces more CO2 per captia that all the other industrilised countries

Yes, but it only has 4% of the world's population. I don't know what the US's absolute contribution is but I don't think it's the largest.

It's much more important globally that countries like India, China and Indonesia reduce emissions, they are the countries still expanding their industry at a great rate, and the ones that will make a real difference.

The WTO definitely wouldn't sanction against the US as it basically a US organisation, but you're right, the rest of the world probably wouldn't either. But that is exactly what they need to do, as long as they pander to the US, the US will think they can act as they like; largely because they actually can. As soon as people start to go ahead with "Global" treaties without them they will take notice and perhaps start behaving more inclusively.

The chain reaction of other countries re-thinking caused by the US not ratifying is exactly the problem...

I was only using Kyoto as an example, but it's a good one. There are also a whole load of scientific treaties/agreements they have pulled out of too (largely to their own detriment), as well as the high profile land mines and defence ones.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[Lars T.]

Interesting point - totaly ignoring that NASA asked the others to help fund the ISS, in exchange they could do science projects on the station.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[Lars T.]

Actually Europe was under the threat of nuclear attack because the USA and USSR couldn't get along. Let alone that without Europeans you wouldn't even have been able to build the A-bomb in the first place.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[Lars T.]

There is no special "digital copyright" in Europe, let alone those bizare "if you look at it, you're a criminal" stuff in the DMCA. For years the US gave a shit about international copyright, because Americans made more money copying non-Americans work than they lost the other way around.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[Anonymous Coward]

Stalin had designs on Europe from the end of WWII. Don't believe me? Ask the Polish how the postwar elections went.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, because Germany would be too busy invading France for anyone to care. At least, that is what happens every time we leave Europe alone.

In this particular case, just as a point, what were the soviets in the middle of doing after coming in thru berlin in 1945?

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[Lars T.]

Stalin had plans on Europ before WWII. Ask the Polish about the joint attack by Germany and the USSR. The US gave shit.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[SEE]

The USA, on the other hand, is the centre of the universe, the new Middle Kingdom, and treaties with other, inferior, nations are the *first* thing to be broken if The Land of The Free is getting squeezed. Or even if they aren't and just don't feel like it (Kyoto, landmines, NMD...).

Bullshit. A treaty can't be broken if it never came into force, and a vote of the EU is not sufficient to bind the U.S. to a treaty, no matter how good the EU might think it is. To be able to choose whether or not one wants to join a treaty is a basic right of being a soverign state, not an arrogant privilege demanded by the U.S.

Kyoto was preemptively voted down 98-0 by the U.S. Senate. The U.S. announced in advance that it had no interest in the landmine treaty, because unlike, say, France, the U.S. has defense committments on a land border with the 4th largest army on Earth on the other side. The chemical weapons convention's inspection provisions would actually violate the U.S. Constitution's Bill of Rights, and thus inherently cannot be adopted by the U.S. And the ABM treaty was bilateral between the U.S. and the now-nonexistant USSR, which repeatedly violated the the treaty anyway, and which we left though an explicit, in-treaty wihdrawal clause.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[Anonymous Coward]

"Many a true word spoken in jest"

That was the big reason: maintaining a capitalist Europe as a market for US goods and services.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[Anonymous Coward]

And that's totally ignoring the fact that the ISS is projected to cost FIVE TIMES the original budget. The US certainly didn't sign up for that, nor did it sign up to essentially pay for Russia's contributions to the station.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[Lars T.]

So NASA blows its budget and it's the others fault. Thanks for clearing that up.

Re:Noone to the rescue, yet

[leucadiadude]

Damn, I really wish I had a mod point for you!!

It's ours. Why?

[Saint Aardvark]

We have better beer with a higher percentage of alcohol. The senators who decide this will either be happy not to be bribed yet again with a case of Bud Lite (tm), or will be unaccustomed to being quite so drunk during a vote.

Furthermore, as a Canadian taxpayer, I will naturally be asked to help decide who gets to be an astronaut. Moderators, you know what to do.

Just another excuse to tax Canadians

[wackybrit]

Canadians love tax, so the government is constantly coming up with oddball schemes to create new taxes for. This is the perfect solution.

If I were Chretian I'd like to call it GST. Going-to Space Tax. This tax will benefit Canada since Canadians will now be able to disperse their superior liberal tax-loving genes elsewhere in the universe.

'Canada can be lOOse to explore space more quickly from our giant space hOOse'

Re:Just another excuse to tax Canadians

[wackybrit]

And I screwed up my own post. I suck.

Orbiting laser of death

[Urthpaw]

It's kinda pathetic that Terrorists blow something up, and governments start tossing money at militaries, and ignore their space programs. Maybe the terrorists are just using the ground stuff as a distraction, to launch their orbiting "laser" of death.

Re:Orbiting laser of death

[jeneag]

yeah, now lets see if NMD will save america from the attack, it just makes me laugh so hard.

Funding cuts

[Stone Rhino]

(begin rant)
Funding cuts that make it impossible to do research should not be made, since this is a research platform, after all. If they cut funding to this, just like they did with DS1 (story earlier today), then the entire scientific commmunity is going to be pissed. What is the point of putting up a multi-billion dollar space station if not to do something more than have it just sit there, with no experiments being done? That ticking sound is the time before this thing plunges into the ocean years from now. the only question is "what do we do with it until then?"
(/rant)

Of course the only reason ...

[Anonymous Coward]

.. is that when someone messes up a metric/english conversion, we can ... Blame Canada !

All languages/currencies will be posted together!

[Anonymous Coward]

How jingoist, only posting in that American language. There are other languages too, you know.

&# 12522;&#25 522;jingoist, &# 35328;&#12 354;, &# 12390;

jingoist, &# 22269;&#23 427;,

Cómo jingoist, fijando solamente en ese lenguaje americano. Hay otros lenguajes también, usted sabe.

Comment jingoist, signalant seulement en cette langue américaine. Il y a d'autres langages aussi, vous savez.

Come jingoist, inviante soltanto in quella lingua americana. Ci sono altri linguaggi anche, sapete.

jingoist, . , .

Como jingoist, afixando somente nessa língua americana. Há outras línguas demasiado, você sabe.

2 and a half� crew members?

[elliott666]

"At least 2½[and a half] crew members are needed merely to operate the ISS."

Wouldn't it be safe to round that up?

Re:2 and a half� crew members?

[TheKey]

No, the statement is correct. They're planning on recruiting Verne Troyer as the 1/2 to save room.

Re:2 and a half� crew members?

[mlk]

Ahh, well there have been many break-throughs in "Chain Saw" tech.
Alas the medical side has not yet catched up.

mlk

Re:2 and a half� crew members?

[bluGill]

Not nessicarly. There is either room for improvement (1/2 implys that if you could get rid of some tasks you would only need 2, or alternativly you have an extra administrative person should it be nessicary. Or perhaps someone who should be budgeted half to run ISS, half to do research, which is a good use for someone who has an expiriment that doesn't need full time attention. Rounding up would leave someone not busy, while rounding down (what if the true number is 2.499?) would leave you short a person, neither which is good when it is so expensive to send people up.

Re:2 and a half� crew members?

[grytpype]

Why aren't there more dwarf astronauts? Aren't they a lot cheaper to put into space? They weign less, eat less, breath less, take up less space... Maybe NASA could save a lot of dough by recruiting (or breeding) a race of puny astronauts!

International Snot Station: Canada to Snot it?

[The WIPO Troll]

THE OFFICIAL TACO-SNOTTING FAQ By The WIPO Troll, $Revision: 1.13 $

Why have I been receiving emails from some guy called "CmdrTaco," in which he seems to be speaking in some kind of code language?

You have been receiving email from a certain Robert "CmdrTaco" Malda, owner of the popular technology website Slashdot. Actually, it's not a very "popular" site in the common sense of the word; the site is rife with pimply, antisocial geeks, zit-faced nerds, dirty GNU hippies and communists, and other societal rejects. It's also home to the world's most infamous pædophile ring, the "Slashdot crew."

Whenever CmdrTaco gets bored (and who wouldn't, running a site like Slashdot all day), he roams through the Slashdot database, penis in hand, looking for people who might enjoy engaging in homosexual orgies with him. How he determines this is anyone's guess; but if you have a homosexual-sounding nickname, or a nick with the letter P or E in it, you're in trouble.

And this time, he found you. Lucky you.

CmdrTaco's code language is relatively easy to decipher. He prefers to speak in thinly-veiled sexual innuendo to evade the watchful (but relatively stupid) eye of Slashdot's parent corporation, VA Software. CmdrTaco's "Commander" is, of course, his penis -- a small, withered little thing that lives in his pants and only comes out in the presence of other male geeks or at the beck and call of CmdrTaco's own lubed-up right hand. His "Taco bells" are the shriveled testicles that droop beneath his Commander, and his "Taco sauce" is his thick, gooey semen. It should be more than obvious to you now what he means if he asked you to "ring his Taco bells" or "taste his gourmet Taco sauce."

Lastly, there is the practice he refers to as "Taco-snotting" and the more revolting "circle-snot."

Good Lord. What is "Taco-snotting?"

"Taco-snotting" is the term used by CmdrTaco to refer to an act of fellating a homosexual man (or unwilling heterosexual; CmdrTaco is rumoured to prefer rape), then blowing the semen out his nose onto the face and body of his partner or victim. Naturally, a long, bubbly stream of milky-white semen is left on CmdrTaco's face, dribbling out of his nose and down his cheek: hence the term, "Taco-snotting."

A "circle-snot" is a Taco-snotting circle-jerk, another practice common among the Slashdot crew. CmdrTaco, CowboiKneel, and Homos get together and snot each other with their gooey, sticky cum -- spooging their jizz-snot all over each other's faces and pasty, white bodies, until they're covered head to toe with their own and each other's man juice. This vile ritual can go on for hours. For the homosexual penetration that follows this lengthy foreplay, Roblowme is usually there to provide plenty of anal lubricant; he owns a limo service and has ample supplies of motor oil and axle grease ready to go.

To complete this perverted orgy, fellow geeks Michael, Timothy, and Jamie will usually join in, dressed in tight leather mock-S.S. uniforms, jack boots, and leather gloves. The whole group then proceeds to snot each other's spunk and whip each other's pudgy asses with riding crops and chains until their pale, white geek bodies are exhausted and soaked in stinking sweat from the hours of passionate, homosexual revelry.

Ewwwwww. So, can I stop receiving these emails?

Hopefully.

You most likely forgot to uncheck the "Willing to Taco-snot" checkbox in your account preferences. CmdrTaco has probably already got the hots for your wad, and he's probably already been lurking outside your bathroom window for weeks with a camera, some tissues and lube. There's no escaping a geek in heat, so it's probably too late for you, but you can possibly rectify this situation. To remove yourself from CmdrTaco's sights, log into your Slashdot account, go to your user page, click on Messages, and uncheck the box next to "Willing to Taco-snot." Maybe he'll ignore you. Probably not.

I can't stop receiving these emails from CmdrTaco!?

If you indulge him in a Taco-snot or two, he might leave you alone. You might also want to look into mail filtering, restraining orders, or purchasing a heavy, blunt object capable of warding off rampaging homosexual geeks in heat. Trust me, when they charge... oh, the humanity. If he gets you, and you let him Taco-snot you, you will most likely end up tied up in his basement to be used as his sex slave for the rest of your life (or until he accidentally drowns you in spunk in a circle-snot).

Have you ever been Taco-Snotted?

Unfortunately, yes. I first met CmdrTaco at an Open Source Convention. He invited me back to his room for a game of Quake and some "gourmet Tacos," but when I got there, he jumped me and tied me to his bed, stripping me. After taking his "Commander" out of his pants, Mr. Taco made me suck the withered thing six times. He then performed his vile Taco-snotting ritual on me three times over the next two hours, bringing me to orgasm after sweaty, mind-numbing orgasm... then he snotted my own milky-white jizz back onto my face, into my mouth, then again on my exposed belly.

CmdrTaco invited several of his Open Source (or rather, "Open Sauce" -- man sauce) buddies over to continue the twisted snotfest. Linux Torvalds raped my ass with his "monolithic kernel," and Anal Cox used his "network stack" in a multitude of unspeakable ways on and in every orifice in my defenseless body. Michael was there in his leather Nazi uniform, caning my ass with a bamboo pole and ranting about "all those Censorware freaks out to get him."

How did you finally escape, you ask? After about 16 hours of countless homosexual atrocities perpetrated against my restrained body, they all finally went to sleep on top of me, sweat-soaked and exhausted. I was left there, covered in bubbly, translucent jizz-snot, chained to the bed, with half a dozen fat, pasty-white fags lying around and on top of me. Fortunately the spooge coating my flesh worked wonderfully as a lubricant; I was able to squirm my way out of the handcuffs and slip out the back door. I'm just glad I survived the ordeal. These geeks had a lot of built-up spunk in their wads -- I could've easily been drowned!

That's horrible. Does "Taco-snotting" have anything to do with CmdrTaco's "special taco"?

No, that's a different disgusting perversion CmdrTaco indulges himself in. CmdrTaco is usually not satisfied with merely snotting your own jizz back onto your face, he most often enjoys involving his own bodily fluids in his twisted games. WeatherTroll has spent some time trying to educate the Slashdot readership about this vile practice (emphasis added):

You may be wondering what CmdrTaco's "special taco" is. You will be wishing that you hadn't been wondering after you finish reading this post. To make his "special taco", CmdrTaco takes a taco shell and shits on it. He then adds lettuce, jacks off on the taco, and adds a compound to make the person who eats the taco unconscious. Of course, the compound does not make the person unconscious until the taco is fully eaten. Thus CmdrTaco force-feeds the taco to the unsuspecting victim.

After the victim is unconscious, he is held against his will and used for CmdrTaco's nefarious sexual purposes. This includes shoving taco shells up the victim's ass, Taco-snotting, and getting Jon Katz involved.

Completely different, yet no less revolting. It should be clear to you now that CmdrTaco is a very, very sick individual, as are most of the Slashdot editors.

Does Jon Katz get involved in any of this? I thought he was a pædophile, not a homosexual.

Actually, Jon Katz is a homosexual pædophile. He's also a coprophiliac, and, many suspect, a zophile. Jon Katz is somewhat of a loner and doesn't involve himself in circle-snots. Mr. Katz usually engages in a game called " Katz juicy-douching" with his harem of little-boy slaves: a vile practice which involves administering an enema to himself of the little boy's urine (forced out of them with a pair of pliers), spooging the vile muck from his ass back into the enema bag, then squirting and slathering the goo all over himself, and the little boy's chained-up and naked bodies. If he's in the mood, he will sometimes skip refilling the enema bag and just squirt it from his ass onto his boys. Unwilling boys are further tortured with the pliers until they comply and allow Mr. Katz to juicy-douche them for the rest of their lives.

As I already said, Mr. Katz is also a zophile. As if the sexual escapades with the helpless little boys aren't enough, Jon usually enjoys his juicy-douches best when his penis is firmly planted in a female goat's anus. He is also rumoured to get off on watching his little boys eat the goat's small, bean-like turds.

...Are you getting hard writing this?

Why, yes. :) Join me in a WIPO-snot?

No, thanks. I'm already CmdrTaco's boi toi.

________________________________________ RECENT READER COMMENTS

Once comments have been archived by Slashdot, they're removed from the Official Taco-Snotting FAQ. However much I would like to paste 200k crapfloods into Slashdot, my browser is a piece of shit and won't let me!

1. Re:Taco-Powered Christmas Snot (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.15 7:05 (#2707493)

   Has this been submitted to linuxdoc.org yet?

2. Re:Bye bye Windows! (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.15 5:12 (#2707245)

   That may be true, but have you made love to a wombat today?

3. Re:That's my department, boy! (Score:-1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward (actually afree87) on 2001.12.15 2:51 (#2706921)

   Wow, WipoTroll, you really know how to snot! And you can scramble Slashdot's HTML, too! I love boys who do that! Come over to my place sometime!

4. Re:CmdrTaco BANNED FOR LIFE from Taco Bell!!!!!! (Score:-1) by WeatherTroll on 2001.12.15 2:48 (#2706907)

   CmdrTaco only goes to Taco Bell to get their hot sauce, and to solicit hot sauce enemas from underage male employees. He makes his own tacos.

5. Re:Snottle OSnotX, BSnotD, and Snottan Snottard (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward (actually afree87) on 2001.12.15 2:47 (#2706900)

   We love you, WipoTroll! We want you to snot us, WipoTroll!

6. Re:Bye bye Windows! (Score:-1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.15 1:35 (#2706675)

   I want some Taco-snot! Where can I get some?

7. Re:Bye bye Windows! (Score:-1) by JonKatz on on 2001.12.15 0:29 (#2706495)

   Please, please, please Taco-snot me. I know I would love it almost as much as fucking young boys. Pleadingly, JonKatz

8. Important Information For Slashdot Users (Score:-1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.14 3:09 (#2702660)

   It has recently come to my attention that the entire Slashdot crew engage in homosexual activities. CmdrTaco is one such person, and has dedicated his life to spreading the ideals of Taco-Snotting while enjoying the benefits of it. For further information on Taco-Snotting please refer to George WIPO Bush's Taco-Snotting FAQ which can be easily found by searching for the Slashdot journal of George WIPO Bush or by looking in the comments of Slashdot articles (Usually modded -1).

   It has also come to my attention that CmdrTaco has other interests besides homosexuality (Believe it or not). One such interest includes a budding music career with a song titled "Gaping Anus". The details are sketchy on this topic but I do know that besides the lead vocals of CmdrTaco, it includes Timothy and CowboyNeal (Also members of the Slashdot crew). There has been no release date set for this album or which record label it will be produced under. I believe CmdrTaco is planning to set up his own label, Taco-Snotting Records, with the intention of releasing the song on a cd-single with various remixes as soon as possible (To catch the current popularity of the Taco-Snotting fad). On a side note, I would not believe this fad will ever wear out (like a Snotted-out-geek); I am sorry to say Taco-Snotting is here to stay :-(. Various remixes of Gaping Anus will include: "Extra Jizz", "Snot Me Baby One More Time", "www.Goatse.cx", and "Once You Taco-Snot, You Can't Stop". I am sure many, many, more are sure to come. I predict this album will be a very hot seller this holiday season, especially with in or out of closet homosexuals, and with those who have no self-respect (Readers of Slashdot).

   Through a good, non-homosexual friend of mine, I have recieved a copy of the lyrics to the Gaping Anus musical composition. Included after the lyrics is a very speical tribute written by yours truely. Perhaps CmdrTaco will ask me to provide the vocals. Please feel free to read the lyrics and post your comments and disgust. E-mail CmdrTaco with this disgust also.

   BTW, please do not reply with the intention of flaming me because the lyrics are a rip-off of Insane Clown Posse's "Slim Anus". For more information on ICP and Slim Anus refer here and here. CmdrTaco is the author of this fine musical work and not me. So, it is obviously he who has ripped off ICP and not me. Thank you.

   Read the rest of this shit...

9. Re:Snotback: Snotto, Snotz, Snottion (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.14 2:44 (#2702581)

   you know, every time i read this i want to punch you more and more. the taco snotting thing is old, lame, boring, and over done. it never was remotely funny or good though. it sounds like a 10th grader wrote it too. so please, go play in traffic or shut the fuck up so real trolls can post.

10. Re:Italics are yummy! (Score:-1, Troll) by Super Mario Troll on 2001.12.14 2:33 (#2702535)

    Keep up the good work! Educate the masses to the dangers of Taco-Snotting!

    It's a me, the Super Mario Troll! Would you like to see my gaping troll anus
11. Re:Italics are yummy! (Score:-1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.14 1:41 (#2702370)

    WIPO - Man you trolls are shit compared to Egg Trolls troll's. Egg Man is just so much more original.

12. Re:The WIPO Troll Announces Portable Snotbox (Score:-1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.07 7:58 (#2669658)

    That leaky sound you hear is CmdrTaco pissing himself after seeing this.

    Slashdot trolling just got a whole lot easier...

    http://www.geocities.com/frostpist/

    Spread the word!

13. Re:The WIPO Troll Announces Portable Snotbox (Score:-1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.07 5:48 (#2669422)

    Q: Is CmdrTaco gay?

    A: He Mos' certainly is!

14. Re:The WIPO Troll Announces Portable Snotbox (Score:-1) by GaylordFucker on 2001.12.07 5:39 (#2669394)

    not to mention... The WIPO Troll used himself as a test subject to try out the portable snotbox... i await your results and hope your product gets approved...

    Regards, Gay

    Get that rats nest off your head, you numbskull -- Wesley Willis

15. Re:Portable Snotcube! (Score:-1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.07 3:58 (#2669117)

    stfu. no one really cares about your lame little "troll". make some new material (not that anything you've ever said is worth a damn..)

16. Re:Yum yum taco-snotting! (Score:-1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.02 22:15 (#2644499)

    Dear SLASH crew - this post makes it clear why you need to add a new category - "tell it like it is (+1)"

17. This is getting old (Score:-1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.02 20:14 (#2644227)

    Hey dicksuck, why don't you come up with new troll material? Everyone has seen the tacosnotting 100 times already. Fuckwit. Assholage. Gay. Lick my anal nectar.

18. Fucking hilarious too bad it didnt get a 5:Funny (Score:-1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.02 19:01 (#2644105)

    this is good shit man

19. Re:Taco-snotting@Home! (Score:-1, Offtopic) by Dark_Cobra87 on 2001.12.01 23:03 (#2642180)

    Oops, forgot to check that Taco-snot option...

20. Re:Fuck Linux! Fuck him hard! (Score:-1) by Fecal Troll Matter on 2001.12.01 20:55 (#2641791)

    Mmmmmmm, Taco Sauce...

    Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)

21. Look (Score:-1) by ArchieBunker on 2001.12.01 20:19 (#2641679)

    I love trolling but this shit is getting old, fast. At least start mixing them up a little bit. How about the 'How OSM was Freed' series?

    http://www.naawp.org/

22. Re:Congratulations! You have been WIPO'd!! (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on 2001.12.01 8:37 (#2640602)

    Stop posting this! I've got hangover and Taco Snotting doesn't make me feel any better.

    I'm really glad that Taco Snotting is illegal here in Europe.

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Copyright © 2001 The WIPO Troll. Verbatim crapflooding of this document is permitted in any medium, provided this copyright notice is preserved, and next time you take a dump, you think of the WIPO Troll and all he's done to make Slashdot a better place.

SHUTUP YOU FUCKING LEBANESE!!!

[GaylordFucker]

you better keep your mouth shut you stupid sand nigger, cause we're gonna bomb the fuck out of your dirty country you towelhead!!

Re:SHUTUP YOU FUCKING LEBANESE!!!

[I.H.S.W.R.K.]

CAN'TWE ALLJUST GET ALONG

US doesn't follow treaties anyways

[Anonymous Coward]

They pull out of the SALT treaties, and their "intelligence" agency and military admit to making anthrax as a weapon. Is it any surprise that no one trusts the US to keep its word?

Re:US doesn't follow treaties anyways

[phat_rat]

Man, STFU and RTFM 100 more times before you make a stupid-ass statement like that again! What fucking country are you from? I did the calculations earlier, if the whole of the EU forces all banded up against the US, WE WOULD STILL KICK THEIR ASS.Think on that, and then insult some more americans. /.

Obligatory anime reference

[Attila]

Maybe the Japanese should have opted for a Mobile Suit Gundham instead of an Experiment Module Kibo.

US vs. Canada

[Patrick McRotch]

-US takes the initiative on creating the ISS, contributing the bulk of funding and nearly all technology.
-Canada whines that the US isn't doing it the way Canada wants.

-US takes the initiative to throw off the chains of an obsolete and oppressive monarchy.
-Canada keeps calling said monarch "daddy" for two hundred years.

-Americans call themselves "Americans," as is their right.
-Canadians feel left out.

I think what we can say with certainty, is that Canadians tend to have serious inferiority complexes. I can't say I blame them. If my country's sole export was third rate comedians, I might feel inferior about it, too.

Re:US vs. Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Americans call themselves "Americans", but the rest of the world calls them "Assholes".

Re:US vs. Canada

[lyphordt]

I've never understood why Americans have this attitude that they are always better than anyone else around them.

Canada never had slavery.
Canada never had prohibition.

And Canada is your largest trading partner. Yes, your LARGEST. You depend on us too.

Re:US vs. Canada

[quantaman]

-US takes the initiative to throw off the chains of an obsolete and oppressive monarchy.

And starts a long history of going off and starting war while instating several military dictatorships. While Canada's ties to the monarchy are superficial and gives up membership in the commonwealth (we also didn't have to kill any one). By the way, remember the war of 1812;)

-Americans call themselves "Americans," as is their right.

Just don't do it anywhere else in the world if you don't want to get shot.

Re:US vs. Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

>

You couldn't kill anyone if you had to. You have no military. You hide behind the protection of the US military and shout "death to America" all day long. We're not impressed. We don't even care. Like every other nation on earth, we ignore you, except for occasional replies to standard, insecure-Canadian posts on various web sites.

Re:US vs. Canada

[Drakin]

Actually, to gain true independance, Canadians had to kill an awful lot of people, and a lot of Canadians were killed.

It wasn't until WWI that Canada became truely accepted as an independant nation. (An Example of this is how Canada was pulled into the war without really having a say)

And the war of 1812, while it's amusing (with the burning of part of the white hourse and all by British and Canadian troops), it was much more of a stalemate than a clear victory for either side.

And yes, I'm Canadian.

Re:US vs. Canada

[Patrick McRotch]

And Canada is your largest trading partner. Yes, your LARGEST. You depend on us too.

Wow, I couldn't have asked for a more explicit example of the Canadian inferiority complex in action. I'm going to ask you to do something now. It may be hard, but just give it a try. Sit down, close your eyes, and relax. Let go of all your animosity towards America. Clear your mind. Then ask yourself: Is Canada more important to America than America is to Canada?

I think we both know the answer to that question.

Re:US vs. Canada

[Afrosheen]

Where does the world get this opinion that Americans think they own the world? Every country has Nationalism flowing through their citizen's veins. I doubt you'll find any Japanese guy that doesn't say that Japan is great. Rephrase that for any country on the planet...except for maybe Afghanistan and some other third-world countries.

I theorize that it's because the way Americans act abroad. Generally the people that travel on vacation are rich assholes who don't know how to act HERE let alone anywhere else. I could be wrong, but that's my theory.

Re:US vs. Canada

[yani]

Whichever country has the trade deficit (a nation's excess of imports over exports) in the relationship would be the best indicator of that...and I'll give you a clue, it's not Canada ;)

Re:US vs. Canada

[dadragon]

I'll agree with you, mostly.

Part of the War of 1812 was to seal Canada from the USA. That failed. They tried to "liberate" us, but we didn't want to go..

On that point, we did win. On the getting the USA back under the control of the British, we failed.

And that whole burning of the White House, that was revenge for their burning York (Now Toronto).

Re:US vs. Canada

[yani]

Sorry, should always include a link wih a post! See here for the figures in September 2001

Re:US vs. Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

So you're saying that if the U.S. just stopped buying Canadian products, that Canada wouldn't be up shit creek? I think the influx of American dollars into Canada is much more important to Canada than it is to the U.S.

Re:US vs. Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah yes, the typical American. Talking out of his ass.

The US did have a nice revolution where France fought England for them.

Canada's monarchy is not what you'd think. Canada's monarchy is a separate institution from the British monarchy, but the person who wears the crown is the same.

What do Canadians fell left out about? Americans calling themselves American? Why should that bother us. It does bug us when they call themselves "Canadian" to get better treatment in other countries, though.

Re:US vs. Canada

[yani]

No I'm saying apparently US needs Canadian goods more than Canadians need US goods, of course that's a rough analysis because it could be something like things the US buy from us cost more on average than things we buy from the US, but in general the US spends more on us than we do on them...and I certainly don't mind that ;)

I think we'd both be up the creek if there was no trade between us!

Re:US vs. Canada

[sabinm]

I hate to agree with the last guy as he is a complete idiot. The high school philosophy of who's better and who is not is pretty sad. I love the United States as much as anyone, but it doesn't mean that I can't appreciate our neighbors to the north and their importance to our economy and cultrue.

*However*

A trade deficit with a country usually means that the country with the deficit is buying more goods than it is shipping out, and is not indicative of dependence on another country but more indicative of deep pockets (or at least established credit).

By the way. The trade deficit of the US is down to it's lowest level in nine years. The market did not take this as good news. Why? Because it means that US citizens pockets just got a little shallower.

Re:US vs. Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you for your agreement.

Complete Idiot

Re:US vs. Canada

[Retief65]

Shh, shut up man. The minute the Americans find out about our massive trade surplus they will freak out and start trying to weasel out of NAFTA. Let them keep thinking their trade deficit is all the fault of the Japanese.

Re:US vs. Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

You are incorrect. Canada did have prohibition. It began in most provinces around 1915 and ended around 1925, although in Prince Edward Island it began in 1901 and did not end until 1948.

Re:US vs. Canada

[yani]

Yes, I realise that but I was only trying to point out that the US isn't trading with us just to make us 'happy' or something which is the impression I got from this thread, they obviously need something we have (maybe snow? please!) and we need their money, especially with our economy so focused on trade with the US.

Of course trying to point out anything like that in this thread is useless because it's just flame anyway so I'll shutup ;-)

We'll be experiencing that shallowness of pocket too when the effect trickles through so that's not good news for us either :-(

Re:US vs. Canada

[part!cle]

Lets ask another qusetion... who givith a fuckith?
Lets stop our rabid self importance and chill a little. Brewski anyone?

Re:US vs. Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Where are we going to get shot?! Like Canada the rest of the western world has been turned into unarmed faggots!! I am an American!! Canadians are Canadians. You 2nd rate country is made of French and the traitors that left the US after the revolution. Canadians should be (and most are) happy with the scraps that we give you. I live here in Seattle and we have Canadians coming here all the time for health care because your wonderful utopia makes them wait!! So they bring their money down here to have babies and get well. It's a fact that the state of Minesota has more MRI machines then the whole of Canada. Hehe... but hey it's aboot time the Canadians contribute to something other then alcoholism.

Re:US vs. Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

When did it become a contest?

Then ask yourself: Is Canada more important to America than America is to Canada?

Oops, you nailed us, I guess we won't be getting that promotion, will we??

Re:US vs. Canada

[Glytch]

Too late. Apparently Americans only believe in free trade and open markets when it allows them to make Nikes in third world sweatshops. NAFTA is a complete fucking joke.

Re:US vs. Canada

[ergo98]

Yawn. Of all the pathetic diatribes attempting to get Canadians "angry", this has to be one of the worst.

I think what we can say with certainty, is that Canadians tend to have serious inferiority complexes

The most telling part of this comment is the fact that you slam Canadians with your, err, "insightful" comments, and you're then claiming that WE have an inferiority complex. Wow. I think a little self-perspective is in order.

If my country's sole export was third rate comedians, I might feel inferior about it, too.

This is just so incredibly ignorant that it really puts the rest of the message into context (not that it wasn't already clear).

Re:US vs. Canada

[ergo98]

Wow, I couldn't have asked for a more explicit example of the Canadian inferiority complex in action...Let go of all your animosity towards America...Then ask yourself: Is Canada more important to America than America is to Canada?

Shit man, you're right. .

Re:US vs. Canada

[tenchiken]

And in return, you have not had to worry about your borders from outside threat since 1865.

Re:US vs. Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Canada did have slavery, mostly amerindians
Canada did have prohibition, although not for very long, and the prohibition from the U.S. actually gave Canada an economic boost as we provided them with booze! ;-)

Re:US vs. Canada

[Espher Mercury]

"We're not impressed. We don't even care. Like every other nation on earth, we ignore you." - Anonymous Coward And then people whonder why the heck people hate the United States? It's because of people like this, who don't give a damn about anyone else. I know lots of people from the U.S. that I get along fine with, but people like this who act like inconsiderate fools and seem to go out of their way to incur the wrath of others are probably the biggest factor in the horrible stereotype given to the 'States.

Re:US vs. Canada

[Espher Mercury]

*cough* Well, I seem to have made a typo in my first sentence (I blame it on the long workday), and I also didn't notice that we needed to throw HTML linebreaks in *snicker*.

My bad ;)

Re:US vs. Canada

[Espher Mercury]

Blah, blah, blah.

Drone, drone, drone.

I don't think our country is second rate. (Also, it helps if you could actually use proper sentence structure and grammar, but I won't nitpick).

The U.S. doesn't give us jack shit for scraps. Rather, they send us tons of mega corporations, buy out our hockey teams and athletes, and attempt a hostile corporate takeover of the rest of the civilized world. They're essentially Microsoft under a different name.

Plus, we contribute lots of other stuff besides alcoholism. We contribute... hockey... and uh... booze... and uh... curling. Yep. Curling.

One other thing, and this has been bugging me for a long time...

Explain to me why the hell Americans need the little glowing trail to follow the puck in hockey? Why can't they follow a black puck on a white ice surface, but have NO PROBLEM following a fast moving white ball (small, for golf; medium-sized, for baseball) moving along a green/brown (grass or dirt) surface? I mean, come on!

As unpopular as it may sound...

[quantaman]

Although I support the efforts of the ISS and orbital research from what I've heard there is in fact not a lot of good research they can do in weightlessness. Personally I think it says something when you're accepting experiments from junior high schools to do in space that probably converts to thousands of dollars of time and resources on the part of the space agency. Does anyone know of useful research being conducted by astronauts (i.e. no Hubble or exploration vehicles) or that has been proposed?

Re:As unpopular as it may sound...

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean that junior highschool science experiments are not usefull? hehe

Whats a few trillion dollars spent if it helps Bobby amd his 3rd grade science class pass Intro to Physics.

;)

Re:As unpopular as it may sound...

[Anonymous Coward]

A good reason to accept experiments from kids is because it gets kids excited about space. It gives you your next generation of astronauts, engineers, and astronomers.

Re:As unpopular as it may sound...

[Hittite Creosote]

When you mention Hubble, you have to remember it was seriously short-sighted until astronauts went up to fix it. But OK, that makes them highly skilled technicians rather than researchers.

Re:As unpopular as it may sound...

[mrfrostee]

Although I support the efforts of the ISS and orbital research from what I've heard there is in fact not a lot of good research they can do in weightlessness

The only reason to do space based research is because of the microgravity environment. If the experiment does not require weightlessness, then it is done on the ground.

Personally I think it says something when you're accepting experiments from junior high schools...

Personally, I think those are mostly publicity stunts to try to raise student interest in science.

Does anyone know of useful research being conducted by astronauts...

Fundamental science research is usually not considered "useful" in the sense that it has obvious immediate applications (then it would be called "technology" or "engineering"). Scientific research is all about discovering new things. Often these new things turn out to be "useful", but it's hard to know if something undiscovered is useful.

There are a few hundred links to existing space research projects here: http://microgavity.grc.nasa.gov

Re:As unpopular as it may sound...

[Anonymous Coward]

s/unpopular/short-sighted

There are many research avenues opened up by a micro-gravity facility ... many that we haven't discovered yet but here are a few examples:

1) Crystal growth
- for semiconductors
- for medical uses (protein identification)

2) Material processing
- you need to start somewhere to figure out how to safely process molten metal alloys in micro-g
- it makes sense to use and process resourses that are already in space rather than launchthem expensively from the Earth's surface.

3) Human physiology
- the micro-g environment has a huge effect on humans (bone loss closely resembling osteosclorosis) that might help bring out mechanisms/treatments that are hidden on Earth

4) Remote Spaceship-yard
- When we go to Mars or other extraterrestrial bodies, it would be convenient to have an orbital rendevous point to put all the smaller pieces orbited over a long time together into a whole
- place to try out new structural technologies like inflatable space structures

5) Remote sensing of Earth/Space
- while this is mainly done by smaller satelites, ISS makes for a good spot to mount Earth/Space pointing sensors for various types of research (atmospheric pollution, extra-solar planets, plasma physics, microwave power transmission)

... use your imagination and you could come up with an endless list of useful things that can be done with a unique facility like this. It is a shame that so many people can't see past the bottom line or past a political term timeline.

Our government doesn't care about Science.

[MADCOWbeserk]

Coming from a research University, I would say which. (But we use to have a Fusion Reactor) Anyway research is often conducted only with the purpose of immediate commercial application. Ie. corporate partners or patent holdings.

It is sad, but Nasa and the NSF are no longer the great institutions we pride.

Isn't this covered by contract?

[pbryan]

... many countries have poured $billions$ into it's development and should thus have a say in whether there should be any cutbacks.

It seems to me that no country, business, person, or other entity should be obligated to continue paying unless a legally binding contract is in place to enforce such payment. In some jurisdictions, termination clauses are manditory for the contract to be considered legally binding.

What binding contract is in place that actually stipulates who is obligated to pay what amount for the ISS? Are contracts even relevant when the United States in concerned? For example, when was the last time the United States paid its membership dues in the United Nations? What about its compliance with greenhouse emissions agreements?

It seems to me, engaging the United States in a debate about cutbacks would be much like an ant trying to playing a game of chicken with a rhino. Being the resident superpower has its perks.

Re:Isn't this covered by contract?

[RollingThunder]

Sure, the US can start reneging on agreements and contracts. The rest of the world will just label it a Rogue State, and cease dealing with it.

You aren't as big as you think you are. Losing Canada and China (for two) as trading partners would hurt you a hell of a lot, and the blatant disregard for all agreements that you imply the US should be able to get away with would cause that.

Once we threw our own finks out of office, that is.

Re:Isn't this covered by contract?

[bleckywelcky]

There are no legally binding contracts outside of a country (with some minor exception in the U.N.). What we have are treaties and agreements, and if we want other countries to continue to do what we want them to do then we must comply with our end of the treaties. Once we find that the services that the countries on the other end of the treaty supply to us are no longer useful, we withdraw from the treaty. The latest and most obvious example would be the U.S. withdrawal from the 1972 ABM treaty. The U.S. has been developing ABM type mechanisms ever since the day the treaty was signed (although we, and the treaty, assured otherwise, heh) and has finally come to a point at which we are almost ready to start implementing these mechanisms. So, we withdraw from the treaty so that when we do implement the mechanisms, we aren't breaking the treaty.

There wasn't a term limit on the treaty, or anything similar, so the U.S. can't be called on the actions here other than in a debate or whatnot.

Re:Isn't this covered by contract?

[Minupla]

Just a note, as it kind of got lost in the Sept news...

This article dated September 25th, 2001, indicates in part:

"Unanimous House Agrees To Pay U.N. Dues
The House of Representatives yesterday unanimously approved legislation that would provide $582 million to pay back dues to the United Nations, a reflection of how the political landscape has been altered by the terrorist attacks two weeks ago, according to The Washington Post.

For months, conservatives such as House Majority Whip Tom DeLay (R-Tex.) had blocked the payment of U.N. arrears, but those lawmakers abandoned their opposition in light of the strikes in New York and Washington"

Re:Isn't this covered by contract?

[sunking2]

I think people don't understand exactly what this is about. The ISS is WAY over budget. NASA is trying to get a grip on this. Over budget means cost over runs are WAY WAY more than was expected. Is NASA and the US expected to just keep writing blank checks so that the rest of the nations involved don't get upset? If the international communitee wants to do something, do it with your check books. The US Space industry has far more jobs invested in the ISS than the rest of the world. Nobody in NASA wants to cut funding. We've practically given the Russians all of the money for there module as well.

Now, I'm not going to get into this whole US for them garbage, but lets take a look and see who has the majority of the financial burden here. If you want to help, pay up.

Re:Isn't this covered by contract?

[jeneag]

We've practically given the Russians all of the money for there module as well.

So, let me ask you why wouldn't great US didn't build the module themselfs? Hmmm... wierd. Or why for example Boeing has a design branch in downtown Moscow?

Re:Isn't this covered by contract?

[nicklott]

How did the richest and most powerful country in the world get $582m behind? Who let them get that far behind? Are they not telling us something? does the US perhaps have financial problems? Maybe this is why they cut NASA's budget: to pay back their 20 year old UN debt...

Re:Isn't this covered by contract?

[phat_rat]

OH FUCK OFF!! Why the fuck should we have to pay those kweer fucking dues anyway? Hmm? I mean, if we had decided not to join the UN or to join another league, the UN wouldn't be anything! There is no punishment for us because we are the punishers. I mean I was surprised that we asked for the British to do the job in Afghanistan frankly I figured the stupid ass brits would just get scared and say no in not so many words..they said they were going to send 1500 troops..we sent 2000 in our first deploy..btw if all 2000 troops died,we americans really shouldnt make a big deal of it,in the 1940s 5000 troops died on the first day in France,think on that, and then run your fucking face.

Re:Isn't this covered by contract?

[ErikZ]

Yeah, they're telling you something. They're saying that the UN is barely worth the trouble.

Re:Isn't this covered by contract?

[nicklott]

To the US it's not.

The UN's role these days is largely to protect the smaller countries (ie somalia, haiti, panama, nicaragua, cuba) from the larger ones (ie the USA)

As far as the US goverment is concerned, the UN only gets in the way.

Dubya's Answer...Send In The Accountants...

[cybrpnk]

Welcome to the new NASA. Dubya is dumping Golden (love him or hate him, he WAS an engineer) to bring in a guy that is 100% bean counter. From a recent newspaper article (I think Houston Chronicle):

""...No one really knows what a finished station would cost. NASA said earlier this year that it faces a $4.8 billion shortfall over the next five years. Sean O'Keefe, nominated by President George W. Bush to become NASA administrator, testified Friday that he had no confidence in that number or any other estimate he had heard so far.
At the close of the hearing Friday, Mr. O'Keefe was asked an open-ended question: "What is your vision?"
.
Mr. O'Keefe spoke for several minutes about "prudent management principles," reinvigorating "the entrepreneurial spirits" of NASA, the importance of collaboration with other elements of the federal government, the need to be mindful of safety and the possibility of taking advantage of this moment when NASA is at a crossroads.
.
He did not mention space."

Re:Dubya's Answer...Send In The Accountants...

[Docrates]

Well, if you ask me, that's exactly the person needed for the job. Virtually no engineer, or space buff for that matter, that is given 12K employees and tons of cash to play with, will make decisions that would turn NASA into a space promotion and facilitation agency. You need a bean counter to figure out that it just doesn't make sense to spend ALL that money in not-for-profit ventures. Sure, NASA is supposed to be scientifically profitable right now (with lots of arguments going against that statement in the last 10 years), but by now everyone realizes that it is the private sector that can run self sustained, profitable activities, where scientific achievement is usually followed by economic achievemnt.

Re:Dubya's Answer...Send In The Accountants...

[Anonymous Coward]

" it is the private sector that can run self sustained, profitable activities, where scientific achievement is usually followed by economic achievemnt. "

Ho ho ho!!! Been to F*ckedCompany lately?

Re:Dubya's Answer...Send In The Accountants...

[rho]

You're right. What we need at NASA is a grown-up Trekkie with a fire in his belly to put us on Mars in 10 years and taking day-trips to Venus in 15. Somebody who will do nothing but talk about space and space exploration, damn the cost.

You'd better be more careful in showing so much scorn, or I might figure out how many starving children the failed Climate Orbiter could have fed if those wonderful engineers of yours had excercised some form of due diligence (oooh.. a dirty, nasty accounting-type term...)

Re:Dubya's Answer...Send In The Accountants...

[Hittite Creosote]

The old saying goes...

Companies run by engineers don't make any money. Companies run by accountants don't make anything.

Money

[slubberdegullion]

It seems to me that cutting back on astronauts now would be like buying a Porsche, then only driving it a few times in order to save on gas. The US has already committed huge amounts of money to this project, and cutting back now could severely limit the usefulness of the space station, making it a complete waste of money.

Re:Money

[Skyshadow]

I disagree.

Cutting back now is like buying a V8 Mustang, then scrapping your plans to add a body kit, slicks, blower, aftercooler and nitro -- you can't do as much as you originally planned, but you can still get from place to place.

Obligatory faggot reference

[Anonymous Coward]

Only a filthy faggot would post what you just posted.

Re:Obligatory faggot reference

[Attila]

Okay, so I misspelled "gundam." Is it really necessary to start casting aspersions on my hygiene?

Re:Obligatory faggot reference

[SirSlud]

> Okay, so I misspelled "gundam." Is it really necessary to start casting aspersions on my hygiene?

Ahhh, attila, too funny! :) I so hope you are the Attila from deviantart.com ...

A sad state of affairs

[CatherineCornelius]

I guess I can overlook the rather parochial tone of the phrase "contrary to the belief..." I'm sure many comments have been quick to point out that the belief in question is held almost exclusively by people who do not know the significance of the letter "I" in ISS.

But it's true that NASA involvement is now crucial, and on that point the decision of Congress is sovereign. If you are a US voter and you disagree with Congress's decisions on NASA funding, you know what to do.

On the bright side, I don't think space is going to go away any time soon, and not only are there still many delightful things to explore on earth, outer space itself is becoming far more accessible in the form of robot probes and orbiting telescopes.

Whilst curtailment of the ISS would be bad news for manned space flight in the short term, I don't think it would necessarily be bad news for science as a whole. There is just so much else upon which it would be at least as sensible to spend the science budget of any country.

Re:A sad state of affairs

[Apostata]

Cathy,

I will admit, now that you mention it, "contrary to the belief..." is perhaps a little leaning. It makes sense given the larger context of the story, but as a synopsis it risks creating a straw-man unecessarily.

This is weird...

[laserjet]

"Mr. O'Keefe is a budget hawk and has said he believes that technical excellence at any cost is not an acceptable approach by NASA.

This seems like a rather odd thing to say to the press... I would think if *I* was relying on NASA to do something in space, I would sure want "technical excellence" at any cost. This is not a walk in the park, it is space exploration, and attention DOES need to be paid to detail.

or am I wrong?

Re:This is weird...

[Jodka]

... I would think if *I* was relying on NASA to do something in space, I would sure want "technical excellence" at any cost... or am I wrong?

If you have technical excellence at any cost, and that cost you can not afford, then you do not have technical excellence. If, on the other hand, you have technical excellence at affordable cost, then you do have technical excellence.

So yes, you are wrong.

My brain has a mind of its own.

Re:This is weird...

[fiftyfly]

I think, perhaps you are - sorta. Jerry Pournelle (www.jerrypournelle.com) said/says it better then I do, but if we really wanna do something with this here space thing we gotta be prepared to loose a little. Accidents happen, shit goes wrong. Tough. Life goes on. Sure we want to do everything possible to _avoid_ such happenings, but we don't want to be castrated with fear when the inevitable _does_ happen. I'd trade an awfull lot 'a "technical excellence" for any 'ol _real_ accomplishment.

Re:This is weird...

[Anarchofascist]

This is not a walk in the park, it is space exploration, and attention DOES need to be paid to detail.
or am I wrong?

You're wrong, this isn't Space Exploration. We've already been to NEO thousands of times, it's the first place we've been. The ISS is like camping in the backyard as compared to hiking in the woods. Instead of exploring space, we're putting more and more people and expensive hardware into the backyard.

DUDE! Fleece me harder!

[Anonymous Coward]

BABY!

JESUS CHRIST MAN!

[Anonymous Coward]

We don't need an international incident here. We're all human, after all. We should be teaming together, to defend ourselves from the Mars Attacks! martians. They are the *real* threat.

Re:JESUS CHRIST MAN!

[Anonymous Coward]

No man, it's the Venutians, trying to terraform Earth with their greenhouse gases! Nuke Venus Now!

I agree completely...

[I.T.R.A.R.K.]

...that you're a fucking retard.
Get back on the short bus, tard baby.

Re:I agree completely...

[I.H.S.W.R.K.]

...that you're a fucking retard.
Get back on the short bus, tard baby.

Re:I agree completely...

[Retarded_One]

I better stay away from you two...

Re:I agree completely...

[I.H.S.W.R.K.]

a/s/l plz? r u hott?

Pro Canada should NOT mean Anti USA

[ShadeEagle]

Bah.

Too many people here are bashing USA, and saying "oh, we're better than USA because of *reason X* or *reason Y*"...

To those of you who are doing this, take a second and think. Are we really that much better? Do we have to take our argument to an international forum and play the patriot?

The USA, despite it's flaws, is not as bad as a lot of people think. If it was such a bad place, they'd have all moved out of there by now! Besides, the USA is where Megatokyo comes from, and it's also where a lot of anime and video games are distributed from.

And Canada HAS flaws. Sure, our Prime Minster, the Right Honourable Jean Chretien was seen choking and throwing a potential assailant... Sure, Matt Stone, Trey Parker, Chris Jericho, Alex Trebek, etc. come from Canada...

But to those who believe in the right to bear arms up here - we can't. To those who believe that we have freedom of speech? Freedom of the press? Not in Canada. The government can censor you if they so choose.

The point is: It's the holidays, friends. Break out the egg nog, or beer if you prefer, and let's celebrate life. We're friendly neighbors... why not ACT like it for a change? We should like each other despite our many flaws.

Happy Holidays to one and all.

Re:Pro Canada should NOT mean Anti USA

[KidIcarus]

> But to those who believe in the right to bear
> arms up here - we can't.

We can bear arms. We don't consider it some sort of fundamental right. What, exactly, about being human confers the inalienable right to posses objects whose primary purpose is to kill other humans? You may want that right, but that doesn't mean the majority of people agree with you.

> To those who believe
> that we have freedom of speech? Freedom of the > press? Not in Canada. The government can
> censor you if they so choose.

What in the gibbering fuck are you talking about?!

From The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms:

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
a) freedom of conscience and religion;
b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
d) freedom of association.

Read it yourself

Re:Pro Canada should NOT mean Anti USA

[ShadeEagle]

We can bear arms. We don't consider it some sort of fundamental right. What, exactly, about being human confers the inalienable right to posses objects whose primary purpose is to kill other humans? You may want that right, but that doesn't mean the majority of people agree with you.

The majority don't. But if I wanted to own a firearm, not only would it be really difficult, but I would NEED to spend a LOT of cash on obtaining the proper licences. And just because I might own a firearm doesn't mean I am going to kill someone. Some people feel safer knowing that if their life is threatened, they'll have a device available that has the potential to save their lives. I don't believe in every Tom Dick and Harry owning firearms... but if you're responsible, and aren't going to go around and abusing a right to bear arms, you should have the right to do so. I'd like to feel safe in my own home, regardless of which area it is, and if that means I have a weapon that can kill, so be it. I'm pro-choice here... not pro-gun.

But keep in mind - if you own a firearm, and you didn't licence that firearm before that law came into effect, you became a criminal on that day.

From The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms:

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
a) freedom of conscience and religion;
b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
d) freedom of association.

We have those rights, but they can be taken away if the government feels it necessary. The Charter doesn't GUARANTEE those rights in the same way they're guaranteed to the people of the USA.

Just my 2 cents...

Re:Pro Canada should NOT mean Anti USA

[KidIcarus]

On the gun thing: I agree that people should have a choice, but I have no problem with the prohibitive time and cost requirements for obtaining the licenses required. Sure you're not a psychotic murderer, but the more time and training required of you before you can obtain a gun, the better (within reason, I'd say about a year from application to obtaining it would be about right). The point is, it's better than the three-day (or less at a gun show), ultra-superficial check you'd get in the states. We want to make sure those who can obtain firearms are responsible.

> but if you're responsible, and aren't going to
> go around and abusing a right to bear arms,
> you should have the right to do so.

I disagree with you here. You should be able to, ideally: yes. You should have an unalienable, constitutional, no-law-can-fuck-with-me right to own a gun: no. Why? For the very reason you said "... if you're responsible...". Hard to write "Responsible citizens have the right to blahblahblah" into the constitution, so we're safer having no right and letting the government deny guns to those who shouldn't have them (the untrained, insane, criminal, etc).

> We have those rights, but they can be taken
> away if the government feels it necessary. The
> Charter doesn't GUARANTEE those rights in the
> same way they're guaranteed to the people of
> the USA.

True, but only in exceptional circumstances (which does suck, admitedly), and to a certain extent the guarantees the americans have aren't all that different anyways, if you look at their new anti-terrorism bill.

Re:Pro Canada should NOT mean Anti USA

[bluGill]

primary purpose is to kill other humans

That is not the primary purpose of guns. The large majority of guns are never used to kill other humans. Most are used for target shooting and hunting. I don't know anyone who has used a gun to kill people, either accidently or intentionally. I know many people with guns, most of whom have put food on their table with it.

To say that a gun is primarly for killing other humans is propaganda pure and simple.

Re:Pro Canada should NOT mean Anti USA

[pci]

Actually Trey Parker and Matt Stone were raised in Colorado (Matt Stone was born in Texas).

More information here:
http://southparkstudios.com/behind/bios.html

Re:Pro Canada should NOT mean Anti USA

[weinerdog]

But to those who believe in the right to bear arms up here - we can't. To those who believe that we have freedom of speech? Freedom of the press? Not in Canada. The government can censor you if they so choose.

Um, Canada does have a constitutionally enshrined Charter of Rights and Freedoms that is very similar to the American charter in scope and strength. There is no constitutional guarantee of any right to bear arms, but even in the U.S., this provision is anachronistic and is kept alive for entirely the wrong reasons.

Both governments censor speech to some extent, but both are among the freest countries in the world with respect to protecting the legal right to free expression.

There are serious impediments to free speech for most residents of both countries, but this is largely the result of speech costing money combined with the decision to extend the right of free speech to nonhuman corporate entities with vast resources that can easily be used to overwhelm all other voices. (Coca Cola has billions to spend each year to get out its message; how much can you afford to spend?)

Re:Pro Canada should NOT mean Anti USA

[Anonymous Coward]

Handguns are designed for the specific purpose of killing human beings. Shotguns and other large, non-automatic guns are not so designed. Assault rifles are designed for killing people, of course.

Re:Pro Canada should NOT mean Anti USA

[leucadiadude]

Alex Trebek is Canadian?

That's it.... nuke the place.

I KNOW I'LL BE MODDED DOWN FOR SAYING THIS

[Anonymous Coward]

BUT I THINK YOU'RE A FAG

Noone is not a word.

[Anonymous Coward]

No one. Two words.

The Canadian Quotient

[Apostata]

I'd believe you :)

As someone who uses Linux at home, people would be amazed how many Canadian Linux-users are invading the internet.

Why you should be modded down

[Anonymous Coward]

1) Mind boggling amounts? The total NASA yearly budget is a measly $14 billion out of a total $2 trillion in the federal budget. As for the station being a large part of the total NASA budget, this is true, but did even the Mars Rover get as much attention as the space station does? With no public support NASA is dead.

2) Of course there are benefits.. thinking critically, do you really believe those at NASA, capable of putting a station in space, are going to waste their effort on something with no benefit other than "coolness"? Please. The main reasons besides public image are to gain engineering skill in building large, long-term habitats in space, and to figure out how to keep people in space without having their health deteriorate as it does now.

Look at me, I don't know what I'm talking about! Mods that are clueless like I am, identify with me and give me mod points! Next time try looking it up yourself instead of posting.

Re:Why you should be modded down

[rsdavis9]

>The main reasons besides public image are to gain engineering skill in building large, long-term habitats in space, and to figure out how to keep people in space without having their health deteriorate as it does now.

I agree. Its not the science stupid its the engineering. Science missions do squat to teach us how to do the engineering of taking people to other planets. I love science dont get me wrong but I still want to stand on mars before I die.

MODERATORS -1 OFFTOPIC

[Anonymous Coward]

This hippy fag's post has NOTHING to do with the ISS and I want to make him choke on my cock

K1B0!!!

[jso888]

"Japan's contribution is the Kibo, a laboratory to be launched and assembled on the ISS starting in September of 2004."

The name of that module is unfortunate on so many levels.

Re:K1B0!!!

[Zalgon 26 McGee]

Some would argue that it's about time Kibo took over something beyond Usenet.

"Laser"

[boopus]

Do you ever get the feeling that if we just let G. Dubbya hang a few "lasers" off the ISS let him point them at caves where "terrorists" live the space station could have an unlimited budget?

That being said, I'd agreee with the poster who pointed out that the ISS is a huge expenditure compared to what we could do with many smaller projects, but I think it's necessary to have big prjects that are the culimination of the technology that's being devised. Classes that don't have final exams are always considered slacker classes because people don't have a goal to work towards, and the same thing could be said for space projects.

Re:It's ours. Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Better beer?

Ever drink Sierra Nevada?

MODERATORS -1 REDUNDANT

[Anonymous Coward]

I'M POSTING THE SAME THING TWICE!

This hippy fag's post has NOTHING to do with the ISS and I want to make him choke on my cock

MODERATORS -1 FLAMEBAIT

[Anonymous Coward]

This son of a bitch is just trying to provoke me! LINUX RULES

MODERATORS +5 INSIGHTFUL

[Anonymous Coward]

LINUX DOES RULE, it's like this man is reading my mind!

Translation!

[Ars-Fartsica]

-US takes the initiative on creating the ISS, contributing the bulk of funding and nearly all technology.

While the...rest of the United States declares that almost all of the low gravity research to be done on the ISS has already been done on the ground.

-US takes the initiative to throw off the chains of an obsolete and oppressive monarchy.

Choosing instead to worship Topm Cruise, Gwyneth Paltrow and George Clooney.

Just print more money

[antis0c]

That's okay! We'll just print more money to pay for it all! That's what Bush is doing with this stimulus plan, thats what we did to fund the war, hell lets just print more money for NASA too and solve all our problems, then in 2 years we can all sit back and drink our US$25 8oz can of coke and laugh at these times.

Re:Just print more money

[vchoy]

What you would find that Germany did the same when they lost the war, what was the result?

INFLATION!
(People carrying/carting loads of money to buy a few loafs of bread from the local bread store).

Re:Just print more money

[jeneag]

and I bet you silly americans think that US won 2nd world war, and landed man on the moon that time, ho-ho-ho!

Troll?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apparently SubtleNuance is moderating today.

Supper is on, so I got to make this fast....

[(H)elix1]

But everything must be perfect, damn the cost... reminds me so much of *my* dot-com days. I watched in wonder as they ordered Sun 250's for each mail server - light duty servers at that. Everything else got 450's.

It was perfect - and we became dot.compost at the end of the year....

Re:It's ours. Why?

[Saint Aardvark]

Hm, no...you try Fin du Monde, and I'll try Sierra Nevada.

Re:It's ours. Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh now that's mean. Why would you point an unsuspecting American at Le Fin Du Monde? It'll knock him on his ass.

As for Sierra Nevada, I have tried it. And I'll have to put it at about a 6 or 7 on my ten point beer scale. Much better than most beer, but nothing special.

For true beer bliss, try Spinnaker's from Victoria.

NEW SLASHDOT POLL

[Anonymous Coward]

Please answer it truthfully...

How big is your load?

1 ml
5 ml
10 ml
15 ml
20 ml
Enough to fill Cowboyneal's ass! (Think about it, it's a lot)

Re:NEW SLASHDOT POLL

[Anonymous Coward]

i know the answer to that......my load is big enough to fill the entire slashdot crews asses!!!

Re:It's ours. Why?

[Sandman1971]

The only ale that rates a 9.5 in my book is Moosehead. (and no, it doesn't taste like a pickled moose head)

Quick Summary Of The Entire Thread For This Story

[Angry Toad]

Canada sucks.
America is great.
Everyone else sucks.
Fuck everyone else.

Did I miss one? I only wish it was possible to bring up **any** freaking topic that doesn't involve the USA without this dimwit ranting starting up.

Cooperation?

[roystgnr]

The future of manned spaceflight depends on pan-national co-operation.

Have you seen the results of international cooperation? Everybody teaming up to try and put up a Low Earth Orbit space station, and finally getting hardware in orbit after 2 decades of redesigns, tens of billions of dollars of cost growth, United States delays that threatened European schedules, Russian delays that threatened American schedules... and the result just isn't that impressive, even for a space station.

What human spaceflight depends on, apparantly, is international competition. Russians orbiting the globe, "putting a man on the Moon and returning him safely to Earth before this decade is out", you know, that sort of thing?

We don't need Chinese astronauts on ISS, we need China building it's own space station in half the time... because apparantly there's nothing that motivates the American space program so well as being laughed at.

Re:Cooperation?

[SectoidRandom]

Your right there about competition, nothing like the threat of Good-Old Thermoneuclear war to get the Space race going!

Pitty we dont have that anymore..

/end sarcasm.

Re:Cooperation?

[Leven Valera]

We don't need Chinese astronauts on ISS, we need China building it's own space station in half the time... because apparantly there's nothing that motivates the American space program so well as being laughed at.

In this administration? Bush would take his soccer ball and go home, while calling those laughing at the USA "terrorists".

Re:Cooperation?

[Lars T.]

I heard Bin Ladin is in a stealth space station, preparing another attack. Sombody tell Dubya.

Re:Cooperation?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nah, his real name's Micheal Summers. He works for the CIA, just like Jonathan "Saddam" Freeman. I hear he's back at his condo in Tallahassee.

Go Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

NASA must feel like a little kid when mommy and daddy are fighting in public.

I'm on Canada's side for sure. More power to them for giving NASA and the U.S. Congress the kick in the ass they deserved. NASA is an (somewhat) unwitting overspender and Congress is right to want to reduce their funds. But a committment was made. Backing down on that committment will have an exponentially dimishing effect on the project which equals a waste of the starting investment.

And it'll make the station less neat.

-DiggsBiggly

Duh

[I.T.R.A.R.K.]

Hence the "US$25 8oz can of coke" remark.

Correction

[Anonymous Coward]

Stone/Parker are not Canadian... I think you have them confused with Terrence and Phillip.

Re:Correction

[Anonymous Coward]

"I fart in your general direction"!

fsck that noise...

[Cheetahfeathers]

Instead of research, let's do some _construction_. Let's spend _more_ money and time and get a _permanent_ station out there. Once we do that, we can spend all the time we like with experements. Our priorities need to be construction and colonization, however. The time to start is now. We've completed the most successful prospecting mission ever (1969), and what have we done since? Squat. Sure, it's been the most profitable endevour humans have yet accomplished (in terms of lives and money saved, technologies developed, etc), but compared to what it _could_ be, it's nothing. We need to invest in space. Space and biotech. Those are two of the paths we need to travel, to have a chance at a future.

I wonder if

[Nate Fox]

their rescue attempt will resemble this :)

Re:I wonder if

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you send that picture to our Navy please? They will want to know where to get a hold of a gun like that, preferably with some ammo. Looks sweet. Thanks, Canada.

Learn the Metric system and save $125 million!

[toupsie]

Guess Jimmy Carter was right. If we could just teach our "rocket scientists" how to do English to Metric conversion, we could have saved $125 million in waste from NASA in the accounting year of 1999 alone.

There is nothing wrong with a good audit over NASA's budget. That budget is what a Butt Head Astronomer would describe as billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars. The Mars Climate Orbiter was just one obvious sign of NASA waste. Getting someone in the accounting field might just be able to help NASA maximize the funds it has and achieving more with the same.

Since the head of NASA is not going to greet the great beyond, he really need not be a scientist. Just someone who is effective running a massive organization funded by taxpayer dollars. As Dennis Tito has shown, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to make it into space. In fact, being good with money and budgets was what lead him to the stars.

Re:Learn the Metric system and save $125 million!

[SectoidRandom]

That $125M you mentioned saving could not quite have been saved had _NASA_ engineers used Metric, perhaps if the USA as a _whole_ converted to metric, then yes but, as your link states, the Imperial units were introduced by "Lockheed Martin", not NASA's JPL.

Who's fault that was well, i guess thats what those pesky congressional hearings are for. :)

(Disclaimer: I am not from the US. Sometimes it needs to be said)

Re:Learn the Metric system and save $125 million!

[toupsie]

Hence the need to learn English to Metric conversions. So I am completely missing your point. NASA is solely responsible for the final project. Bad management led to the failure of the Mars craft. $125 million could have feed a ton of children.

Re:Learn the Metric system and save $125 million!

[bluGill]

Sure, and then it is something else.

Where I work there are always big questions when ever someone says slot 1. Did you mean slot 1 as in 1-16, or slot 1 as in 0-15. Of course hardware loves the 0-15 notation because it fits in 4 bits so nicely, while users like the 1-16 arangement because you start counting from 1. Every computer scientist recignises out problem, and most have faced it.

Metric could be called the problem, if Nasa had been using the older imperial units there wouldn't have been a problem. Of course if the whole thing was metric there wouldn't be a problem either. It doesn't matter in the end, becuase metric's big advantage is unit conversions, and nobody does unit conversions, even in metric where they are easy too many mistakes are made.

Re:Quick Summary Of The Entire Thread For This Sto

[halo8]

Last time i checked the Internet was international. "/." is on the internet. there for it is an international website. I wish you ppl (bigoted americans) would realize that and how your attitude reflects on the rest on the world that reads these forums

HEY QUEEF BOY!

[Anonymous Coward]

y0u shou1d go and fuk ur m0m'z fat pussycunt u s7up!d mohterfuckgin pieced of sh!411!!1!!!!~~!@

Money money money

[Cato the Elder]

The article claims that various governments claim that the US is violating treaty-level contractual obligations by making a budget cutback. Maybe, but they certainly don't cite convincing sources. Can anyone do better?

Also, while other countries may have poured billions of dollars (US) into the project, note that even according to the article this is a small percentage. The article states that the Canadian robot arm cost $1.4 billion and gives them 2.3 % of the research space. The European module is quoted as costing the same. That means Canada and Europe, total, have 4.6% of the research space. Assuming Japan's contribution isn't vastly more expensive, or there isn't some other big player the article didn't mention, that means about 90% of the research space, and presumably the budget, came from the US.

If there were treaties to prevent the US from doing this, then the US should be constrained by them. If not, the US should at least be willing to provide use of launching facilities and shuttles at a reasonable cost. But beyond that, pay up. "He who pays the piper calls the tune"--and that includes telling him to go away. Unless otherwise negotiated, the US has no obligation to let other people piggyback their space efforts on its own.

Re:Money money money

[Anonymous Coward]

"Unless otherwise negotiated, the US has no obligation to let other people piggyback their space efforts on its own. "

Ah, but the US did "otherwise negotiate". This is not a case of a US project where ESA and the others decided after the event they should be allowed on it; the project was set up and approved as an *international* one.

Re:Money money money

[Anonymous Coward]

From Article 15 of the Space Station Intergovernmental Treaty:

2. Financial obligations of each Partner pursuant to this Agreement are subject to its funding procedures and the availability of appropriated funds. Recognizing the importance of Space Station cooperation, each Partner undertakes to make its best efforts to obtain approval for funds to meet those obligations, consistent with its respective funding procedures.

3. In the event that funding problems arise that may affect a Partner's ability to fulfill its responsibilities in Space Station cooperation, that Partner, acting through its Cooperating Agency, shall notify and consult with the other Cooperating Agencies. If necessary, the Partners may also consult.

There are provisions in the treaty to account for budgetary problems the US is having - they get together and figure out how to make do. Yeah, it could probably be paid for by cutting a few pork barrel projects. That's about as likely as finding an honest politician.

Re:Money money money

[Anonymous Coward]

I would be surpriced if the work share of ISS was done by $$$. Not knowing anything about it I would say there was agreed shares of parts each party will provide. I agree NASA takes partly care of Russian spending since nobody else can do those parts... but apart from that I think it is basically NASA fault that they have spent more than estimated.

Lets assume NASA agreed to take 50% of space station and other countries share remaining 50%. Then NASA made estimate that it would cost X dollars. Whose fault is it that eventually this X became 10X? Are everyone else now responsible for NASA overspending since there are some idiots who don't know the concept of budget?

You do your share and we do our share as agreed. If we keep our budget and you don't then who is the one to blame? (not this simple in reality but hopefully someone gets the point that money doesn't mean same than workshare... money is just stupid way to estimate that)

How can money be the problem?

[Fefe]

As long as there is enough money to carpet bomb mountains and piles of rock in Afghanistan, this is not a valid excuse. Just for a moment: consider the money that is poured into weaponry (and I'm not only talking ammo here! The US scientist who sent the anthrax letters gets a salary and took the Anthrax from the expensive bio-weapon program of the USA. Do you know how much money sustaining that program costs? I don't. Why don't we find out?).

It is sad enough that we spend money on weapons at all in a time where people starve to death. Starvation and hygiene should be priority 1, research should be priority 2, and at the very end of the list, somewhere in the fine print, should be the military. Until we are enlightened enough not to need military at all, that is. I'm not holding my breath.

Re:How can money be the problem?

[tenchiken]

Take a look at the combined NASA/JPL/NSF budget (just non millitary and non-medical for now). That alone runs us 100+ bln a year. I would challange anyone who would slams us on research to lookup the number of governments that have 100bln a year budget, to say nothing of research.

That is not even counting the vast amount of money going to H&HS, NIH, ARPA, DARPA (remember that little thing called the internet?).

BTW, no, the ANTHRAX was _not_ from American lab's. Watch CNN or even a news network more often.

Re:How can money be the problem?

[leucadiadude]

"The role of government in this country and in fact all countries is not to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, or care for the sick. The role of the government is to empower its citizens to do those things."

Wrong. The role of governemnt is to promote the common defense. Everything else is secondary and window dressing. Use of force and preparation for use of force to intimidate a possible adversary is the single overarching function of a government. Nothing else is possible for your people if you stand a real chance of subjugation at any moment.

Where the money goes...

[Epistax]

We screw up about 90% of the money we spend on land, and only about 50% of the money we send to space. Come on it doesn't take a statistics major to realize we might as well blow it on something worth the odds :) We've grown too lazy to actually directly care where our money goes. It goes to interest groups who we assume will put it where it's needed, which is, granted, mainly attacking small 3rd world countries.

holy shit, retard

[Anonymous Coward]

1. No one has been bashing the USA as you say. If you're not talking out your ass, provide a concrete reference, please. Otherwise people like me will (correctly) assume you're talking out your ass.
2. Citizens of the USA do not have the right to bear arms nor the right to free speech, either. Witness restrictions on automatic weapons and concealed weapons (just to mention a couple restrictions). Witness restrictions on distribution of child pornography and laws against foreign espionage. Try carrying an assault rifle onto a commercial airline while threatening to hijack the plane -- right to bear arms and right to free speech my ass. Even Canada has less restrictive airport security than the US. The USA is hardly a bastion of freedom in these two areas.
3. The Americans and Canadians are NOT friendly neighbours. Recall a little something called the softwood lumber dispute? No? Well how about the PEI potato dispute then? Nothern pipeline dispute? Any of this ringing a fucking bell?
4. Shut up you arrogant, condescendent, feel-good fucker.

It's been said before

[notcarlos]

And I'll say it again: US-Government domination of space needs to end. Since the end of the cold war, NASA and, to a very small extent, its Russian counterpart have more or less ruled space. Sure, there've been a number of "private" or corporate launches, but all of them have come from Cape with a heavy kickback to NASA.

What is needed is for private corporations to take up the slack, building their own launch sites and launching their own whatevers. If this means corporate domination of space, then so be it. I would rather see the Microsoft Starship Gates make warp one than none at all.

Re:It's been said before

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfurtunately that is not going to happen.
Even small countries (like the one I live in) are not "allowed" by the US to operate space-launch facilities.
Our government got a "stop your space program or else" from the US. Why? Because of our location we could (cheaply) reach orbits that the US are spending $millions to reach (and charging $billions to the client)
What is more, any country (or company, for that matter) who can reach space, is considered a military threat. These days it's most probably going to get worse (read terrorist)

Re:It's ours. Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Cool. Pick up some Celebration ale if you actually do.

I honestly feel sorry for Canadians

[hayden]

- Americans call themselves "Americans" as is their right
- Candians would rather be called Candian to avoid being mistaken for "Americans" like this guy.

Having accents which most of the world can't pick from "Americans" like this guy has to be a big disadvantage (and I'm an Australian, we get mistaken for New Zealenders :).

To fight the problem would any Canadians care to point out what the differences in accent are (apart from the -ou- words like "house" and "about").

Re:I honestly feel sorry for Canadians

[Drakin]

Well, actually, for the most part, there is no true difference in the accents, at least in general terms.

In less general terms, yes, there's a number of localised accents (in canada it tends to be the Newfoundland accent, and the accent found in quebec being the biggest), with more in the US, at least in my experiance (mainly due to the more varried peoples settling in differnt parts of the country en mass).

But, after spending nearly an hour talking with a friend from the states (Maryland) I can honestly say I didn't notice much of an accent.

Now relitives from Chicago... there's a noticeable accent... except for one of them, it disapears after about a week dealing with Canadians.

So, no steadfast rule to tell the difference by an accent. Better to just ask if they're american... if they protest, chances are they're Canadian.

Re:I honestly feel sorry for Canadians

[hayden]

Better to just ask if they're american... if they protest, chances are they're Canadian.

I usually go the other way. "So you're Canadian then?" Americans don't get too pissed and Canadians are quite chuffed about being called Canadian first :)

Re:I honestly feel sorry for Canadians

[Drakin]

Well that's one way to play it safe. Good idea... personally, I never to bother asking about nationality. Less important.

Re:I honestly feel sorry for Canadians

[ergo98]

To fight the problem would any Canadians care to point out what the differences in accent are

While you'll find brainiacs like this guy running around ready to expound upon their perceived faults in Canadian accents (oh the number of times that I've heard Americans make fun of "Canadian" accents, not realizing that what they're actually mocking is more akin to Minnesota accents), the reality is that it's such a large country that accents vary dramatically throughout the country. I'm from Southern Ontario, and here we have very middle-of-the-road accents (similar to the accent that most major newscasters adopt), though I can say that somehow Michiganers (who as a general rule are much more intelligent and worldly than this moron. By the way: It isn't fair to ever paint all Americans with the same brush-> While there are the country hicks that have never travelled further than their local towns borders, and their perspective of the world is "the US of A, and some other countries" (you don't have to look further than the White House to see a couple of examples of these), there are a lot of worldly, considerate, knowledgable Americans that despise these idiots) can always pick-up a Canadian "accent", despite the fact that I don't detect anything.

Again the reality is that the prototypical "Canadian accent" that uninformed American media likes to mock is much closer to North Dakota/Minnesota accents (I have nothing wrong with them and find the whole idea of mocking accents so inane that it boggles the mind. The little things that keep the little minds trying to segregate people).

Re:I honestly feel sorry for Canadians

[Anonymous Coward]

To fight the problem would any Canadians care to point out what the differences in accent are

Oh, the differences in accent are quite clear. There are, of course, many local accents in both America and Canada. Even an Australian shouldn't have much trouble pegging a strong, regional North America accent as America or Canada.

Now as far as the 'accentless' "general American" and "general Canadian" accents go, here's how you tell the difference: the Canadian will sound like he has a bug up his ass. A lower class sort of anger and resentment tends to come through in the speech of nearly all Canadians. Even if a Canadian was trained for years to mimic the more graceful American accent, one could instantly spot the Canadian by his tightly set lower jaw and snotty intonation.

Re:I honestly feel sorry for Canadians

[Anonymous Coward]

It's really tough to tell the difference. One easy way to identify though is that Americans are often playing a game they seem to like a lot called "stick a bug up our ass" where they try to shove bugs up their own asses (and the asses of their friends and family): This of course leads to a sense of paranoia that the world is laughing at them, so they then go around trying to claim that others take part in the bug up the ass game, all in a desperate attempt to feel better.

Re:I honestly feel sorry for Canadians

[Espher Mercury]

Here's a tip. If you can't tell from the accent, wait to see what the person asks at night.

"So, where's the bar?" = Canadian (That's what I'd ask).

"So, where can I put my guns?" = American (Okay, now I'm just being stereotypical ;) Take it in fun, people, and don't get all postal about it.)

Re:It's ours. Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Many Sierra Nevada beers are upwards of 9.5%. In other words, 9% (which is what Le Fin Du Monde contains), is nothing big to American beer drinkers who are discriminating. There are, BTW, many equally shitty beers out of Canada.

BTW, on an interesting note, Beer Advocate scores:

La Fin Du Monde: 4.48
Celebration Ale (S-N): 4.59
Beers from Victoria got in the 3s.

Re:It's ours. Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Victoria Brewery? Ugh.

Both America and Canada can't touch Belgian beers. Pick up some Don de Dieu.

Re:It's ours. Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah yes, the common misconception that more alchohol = better beer.

Try out some more beers and I think you will find there are a lot of really good tasting stouts and weisses which are in the 3-4% range.

Moosehead in Fridge....

[thumbtack]

About time, eh? Oh, and bring a few of those gold colored coins with the mapleleaf on them too....

Ha!

[Pig Hogger]

Coming where it comes from...

Marc Garneau's former wife was found dead, along with her lover in a car whose windows was cracked open and a hose was run from the exhaust to the window...

And another can-adian ass-tronaut, a medical doctor, failed to take care of her wife during her pregnancy. So she skipped important tests, and the offspring is retarded. Nothing unusual here, except that the fucking asshole, upon hearing the bad news, squarely put the blame on her and cancelled the shower party.

Even worse, when the family was posted to Houston so the ass-tronaut could do his training, the canadian space agency refused to pay for the special care the baby needed. Needless to say, their salaries were insufficient to pay for this, so the ass-tronauts had to go on strike until the agency funded the special care for the baby.

And, lastly, the second canadian woman in space, Julie Payette, caused an american astronaut's wife strike: since the hot bitch screwed her way to the top, there was no way the chaste american astronaut's wifes would trust their beloved husbands along with that slut, so they went on strike, too, and NASA then said that the hot bitch wouldn't go in orbit.

But, politics being politics, since she is french and a woman, she had to go and the canadian ambassator to the US (the brother of canadian prime sinister Jean Chrétien) personally asked Billy Boy (this was before Dubya?) to override NASA's concern for the chastity of their crews.

So, the hot bitch finally went up...

Ain't canadian space politics fun???? (but the baby's doin' fine, though).

Re:Ha!

[Pig Hogger]

Since it was modded down, I'll repost it, so more can see it...

Coming where it comes from...

Marc Garneau's former wife was found dead, along with her lover in a car whose windows was cracked open and a hose was run from the exhaust to the window...

And another can-adian ass-tronaut, a medical doctor, failed to take care of her wife during her pregnancy. So she skipped important tests, and the offspring is retarded. Nothing unusual here, except that the fucking asshole, upon hearing the bad news, squarely put the blame on her and cancelled the shower party.

Even worse, when the family was posted to Houston so the ass-tronaut could do his training, the canadian space agency refused to pay for the special care the baby needed. Needless to say, their salaries were insufficient to pay for this, so the ass-tronauts had to go on strike until the agency funded the special care for the baby.

And, lastly, the second canadian woman in space, Julie Payette, caused an american astronaut's wife strike: since the hot bitch screwed her way to the top, there was no way the chaste american astronaut's wifes would trust their beloved husbands along with that slut, so they went on strike, too, and NASA then said that the hot bitch wouldn't go in orbit.

But, politics being politics, since she is french and a woman, she had to go and the canadian ambassator to the US (the brother of canadian prime sinister Jean Chrétien [buzz.ca]) personally asked Billy Boy (this was before Dubya?) to override NASA's concern for the chastity of their crews.

So, the hot bitch finally went up...

Ain't canadian space politics fun???? (but the baby's doin' fine, though).

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Robot Arms Ahoy

[Thingily]

Canada has had one and exactly one valuable contribution to space travel and exploration, but it has been a fairly large one, this being the enormous robotic arms that the shuttle uses to manipulate large peces of debris and equipment in space. These things truly are masterpieces of modern engineering, and no other country manufactures them reliably. Canada's robot arms are also of a superior quality- enough for the US space program to use at least. Canada is apparently good for something after all (besides being entertaining to taunt on a regular basis).

Re:Robot Arms Ahoy

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean Candarm? THAT thing?

It looks like had (has?) epilepsy.

Face it, you're better at chopping down trees.

Timber!

Re:Robot Arms Ahoy

[Anonymous Coward]

Spar Aerospace, the company that designs and builds the Canadarm, was sold to a US company recently. Canada no longer has any contribution at all.

kibo = hope

[Anonymous Coward]

kibo means hope in japanese; on what levels is the name unfortunate?

Re:kibo = hope

[Anonymous Coward]

take a look at the entry in the jargon file.

Just because one statement is true...

[tenchiken]

does not mean the other one is true.

He makes an interesting point that - contrary to the belief that the ISS is a NASA brainchild/braintrust . ISS is a NASA goal (to the extreme detriment to what I would argue should be the real focus, probes going out to learn about the solar system. On top of that, not only are we sinking 100+ Billion dollors on this (100x the contribution of any other country... and for good measure we are covering most of the soviet's costs as well), we are cutting programs that would go out and examine the Kuiper belt, the sun, etc.

Think of what kind of knowledge we could gain. Long term space research? bzzt. Soviets already did that. Radation effects on humans? bzzt.

The entire problem is that this space station was created by the state department and congress rather then the scientists. ISS? What ever happened to freedom and liberty the first names of this project.

Screw the space station. Give us a workable re-usable launcher and the NGST.

Re:Quick Summary Of The Entire Thread For This Sto

[Anonymous Coward]

You did miss a few:

America sucks.
America is isolationist.
America is imperialist.

Canada to the rescue means making the USApay more?

[Anonymous Coward]

At least, that is the only conclusion one can draw from reading this particular article. The USA already not only pays it's own chunk (90+ % of the total cost), it pays Russia's as well (since their science agencies defaulted). Some truth in advertising in the header might be helpfull. Or perhaps the Canadian govt now thinks that it can appropriate american funds (esp when the Space station will be 5+ billion dollors over this year alone).

Re:Quick Summary Of The Entire Thread For This Sto

[Anonymous Coward]

How can you be isolationist and imperialist at the same time?

Re:Quick Summary Of The Entire Thread For This Sto

[Anonymous Coward]

Hrm ::scratches head:: last time I checked, Canada was in America. Maybe I'm just tired.

Kibo

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not an experiment module! It's really a spy satellite that will allow Kibo to monitor every reference to him in the entire world! This must be stopped!

Re:Quick Summary Of The Entire Thread For This Sto

[meadowsp]

Its pretty difficult to do anything involving the USA that doesn't involve dimwit ranting.

Think about development

[Anonymous Coward]

for instance, Zero Gravity Weed 8)

Just for the pleasure of that "flying" sensation :)

The root

[I am Jack's username]

"Maybe, but they certainly don't cite convincing sources... that means about 90% of the research space, and presumably the budget, came from the US." - Cato the Elder

"Total Program Estimate $37.1$39.4 B (range)" - ISS factbook 2000-10

"Draws significant financial support from the partner nations, which will collectively add more than $10 billion to the U.S. contribution." - ISS factbook 1999-07

The whole approach to space needs re-evaluation

[elliotj]

Maybe I'm just uninformed, but it seems to me that by leaving space exploration to the egg-heads at these govt science agencies, we are not making the kind of progress a more ambitious goal-oriented approach might produce.

In the 60's man went to the moon. The moon! Many times. We haven't been back in decades.

Why is there no base on the moon? Why aren't there more space stations in orbit? I think part of the reason is that the focus is on doing dumb experiments instead of just building these facilities as rapidly as possible.

The shuttle was a big step forward. Mir was a big step forward. The ISS will benefit from both these achievements. What I object to is reading quotes from guys at McGill University who are getting bucks to do research on reflexes in space. This is idiotic when we still need lots of money to put more facilities and equipment up there.

I figure you could spend all your money every year on pure research science. And I think you'd get a lot out of it. But it should be remembered that it was guys like Columbus, Hudson and Cook who made the big discoveries of the last exploratory period. Guys who went and did what they wanted to do to see if they could. They weren't sailing ships filled with lab rats and experiments. They wanted to see what was around the next corner, see if they could get there, and see if they could settle there. I don't understand why this spirit has been lost.

Goals need to be set. ISS completion by 2005. Base on the moon by 2010. Man on Mars by 2015. Base on Mars by 2020. Let's get a move on.

USArm is Better?

[SEGV]

Well I suppose the US robot arms are so much better.

Truly, the way the Canadarm crawls around the outside hull of the station is amazing.

Why Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Better Beer, More Alcohol
   
2. Their phrases come first, starting with A (or is it Eh?)
   
3. Already speak American English (mostly)
   
4. Closer to Europe
   
5. Not as isolationist as the USA
   
6. Will uphold their treaties
   
7. And the real reason: Better Beer
   

Space is hostile, it requires cooperation.

[El Camino SS]

Honestly, if there is one thing that should bring us together, it should be space. Lets look at it this way...

If another nation doesn't lie our space program and gets competitive the way you say, then how long do you think it would take to ruin several lives and billions in real investment?
Fifteen minutes? Ten minutes with the a really good shot?

C'mon. Space is hostile, and requires people to go up there and live in harmony, or otherwise they all die. It is humanity's pioneer spirit. Don't blow it by saying one country is a bunch of deadbeats... or that they should be in competition when it comes to THE WHOLE PLANET.

That is truly a pathetic thought from a pessimist.

You guys are sooo funny!

[El Camino SS]

When you accuse a nation of being arrogant to look after its self-interests, that's really funny.

Hilarious!

I am not quite sure what kind of strong drugs you are smoking when you accuse the USA of being too pro-USA, and the rest of Europe, China, Russia, and every other nation in the world to be a good neighbor. I don't care where the hell you are from, no one is a good neighbor in international politics. I love you nationalists. You're all such morons that you'll be the ones that drive the whole world in the ground for your personal greed. It'll be fun. Honest. Its working in the USA. And because you're not a US citizen, you're obviously part of God's chosen fucking people.

Yes we can have it both ways. You can too. Being a bunch of duplicitous bastards is the de facto behavior in international affairs.

Just do me a big fucking favor... don't think your people are not fucking over everyone else to get what they want. That is the attitude of fools.

Please tell me what country you are from... then we'll start talking about fairness, holy man.

Re:You guys are sooo funny!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm actually from Australia and appalled that our government wants to follow the American isolationist line.

Answer the point I raised - the US unlike virtually the whole of the rest of the developed world has a record of breaking and refusing to sign up treaty after treaty after treaty.

Re:You guys are sooo funny!

[SectoidRandom]

Okay, besides the fact this is going back so far and is unlikely to be seen, i feel i must make my point. :) (even if just to myself!)

Firstly i'll state I am first generation Australian. Not that that really matters, because i am absolutly disgusted with Australia especially the similar sort of nationalistic / isolationist policies it has apparently in common with the US. Before you say it, yes if ecomnomic times were better i would emigrate! :)

But onto the point, you called me a 'Nationalist' i cant understand at all where you got that from, (bad guess?) I am in fact the exact opposite, a Liberalist. And i strongly disagree with your view that "no one is a good neighbor in international politics", have you looked my at Europe for example? The European Union is far from a grouping of duplicitous bastards as you put it. Im not for a second saying they are perfect friendly peace-loving neighbours, but they are a damn sight better than a hundred years ago, or even fifty or twenty years ago!

Its only people who see they world in the way that you seem too that gives us all the trouble with such International Treaties. If you expect and project back-stabbing and lying, well thats *all you will get*. For everyone else, well they too will get what they _want_ from it.

A side note, i am an optimist, i see the world as what it could be, i also see in the next half century the world will change many ways, one being if the US continues its borderline isolationism then, it will get that in return. But to compensate, a future European Union, with 500Million+ inhabitants, will do a far better job competing head-to-head with the US, than any individual nation before it. Kyoto is a perfect example of that, the world is changing, Govt's all over are seeing, if the US doesnt want to play, we can go with you! (And fuck Australia if we just want to be your lap-dog! [sigh])

canada lives of the US already

[Anonymous Coward]

2/3 of Canada's entire national economy is anchored in trade with the US. There are a few idiots above saying that since we (US) have money (priorities) to bomb (maintain powerful military), we have money to unrealistically fund some project that is not going to successful if we provide the money we initially committed. What those particular people do not understand is that they live off the teats of the US's defense shield, and the stable environment we foster in the rest of the world. And the first law of economics is scarcity. Money is a limited resource. Sounds genius, huh?

Ask Cote d'Ivory how successful Canada's foreign aid program has been. The really eff-ed up that country pretty good.

The exact same topic was up last week (CSA complaining about US's commitment to ISS), and my remark was moderated as flamebait.

I ask again: Which is better in this case?

1. figuring out who to assign blame too for a project's impending failure. then complaining about it.
2. figuring out a reasonable solution _to_all_parties_ that will make the project semi-successful.
3. scrapping the entire project

[OT:question]Re:You guys are sooo funny!

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey El Camino SS,

I just read a bunch of your posts on this article and am wondering, is English your native language or were you in need of caffeine this morning, cuz your posts sure as hell don't sound right grammatically. Some of it don't even make sense.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Probably the most intelligent thing you've said this entire thread.