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ULTra Robo-Taxi
irksome writes: "Found a link on msnbc about a driver-less taxi pod. According to the article, the vehicle has begun road tests in the city of Cardiff, Wales. The pod, known as ULTra (Urban Light Transport) could make driver-free transport a reality and not just the stuff of futuristic fantasy."
10 bucks says NYC won't allow it unless it travels at a minimum speed of 45 mph.
It's the Mark I version of the Johnny Cab.
Promote proofreading. Don't mod up sloppy posts.
And instead of running on inconvenient roads, you just need to build a special 1.5 meter track to your destination. My, this IS cheaper and easier than driving!
that thing wouldn't last 10 minutes on the streets of LA.
Wherever possible, ULTra will run along the ground, but some routes might require tracks to be raised on pillars above roads, creating a truly futuristic look.
The same futuristic look that we try to reduce in modern highways after negative reactions to the "futuristic" highways built in the 60's.
Not that I don't think that it's a cool idea, but I think that underground is better than above ground, it helps the viewshed.
It seems like something like this comes up every few months and seems to be vaporware. What happened to the self-driving cars that are just your old car with a new chip in it that was supposed to correct traffic flow.
Also, how is this going to be cost effective, I.E., what is the benefit to this? I can guarantee that buying and maintaining the robot costs more than getting a driver and paying him $8/hour for 8 hours a day. Will this be a novelty item or just something useful?
__________________________________________
Take comfort in your ignorance.
Grandmaster Plague
Those things are going to get trashed in no time flat.
Welsh drivers are some of the worst in the world especially when considering the prodigious amount of alchohol in they consume. I doubt that even their livestock could pass a dui.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
First image I had in my mind was the little car on the web side was the Pod Stewie was using when he got inside Peter to kill all his reproductive system so he wouldn't have a brother, funny episode...
:)
Hmm.. come to think of it, if that thing ever grows popular, it will really look like sperms and eggs when you'll watch the streets from above
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
But not to the common criminal...
I can see it now, Robo Taxi pulls a gun on you when you forget to pay him =)
Wow, they plant to make thirty pods in two years for a price of $65 million. Great, and they're battery operated. Plus, they move at a whopping 25 miles per hour. I feel like this could easily become the sweeping revolution in mass transit.
"Passengers will 'hail' the pod from a designated stop, where they select the required destination along a set route." Sort of like a bus. Except buses don't cost $2 million to build, and they seat more than four passengers... additionally, they expect a trip to cost as much as a bus, except buses are cheaper, higher capacity, don't require a renovation of an infrastructure, already available, and in many cases faster than these pods.
Seriously, though, what if someone swipes the battery, smashes the windshield, or perhaps "disables" the potentially raised rail? Who would get sued? Or would they make you sign a disclaimer (the "you can't touch us if you get killed" variety)?
Basically, what I'm seeing is that we'd be better off *not* investing in these things: too expensive for too small of a gain.
For atmosphere, an indian with a turban will be placed in every pod. He/she will be payed to ask random things in a deep foreign accent, and yell at you when you ask him what he/she said.
Well, as long as your destination is near that route, you'll be fine. But this is more like a bus service with a small vehicle than a taxi car.
A taxi car should be able to get to any point in the city/village/town, and take orders/bribes from passengers who ask it to go faster. =)
-Cyc
/.'s 10 Millionth
I guess it takes a while for MSN to get old news from the BBC.
- The Sigless Wonder
I have been afraid a lot of when there will be cars on the roads but nobodey inside of them driving becouse what happens when there is an accedent involveing one of these running into your car and you are injured. no matter how good these can drive in a strate line or what ever, there will be somthing situation that it will not handel correct and peopel will possebly get hurt or killed. and once that happens once then it will be hard for the companey to stay in bisness.
from the faq:
;) :P
:P There's a reason why this is debuting in wales and not nyc, eh?
"We also plan a detection system that will automatically stop the vehicle if there is an obstacle in the guideway."
Oh that's a nice feature to plan for
I suppose the original plan was to add big nerf-style bumpers instead so that at 25mph the unobservant kiddies would just bounce off gently
heh, i just noticed this one:
"What about vandalism?
We hope that the system will be a source of pride to the community it serves so that vandalism incidents will be limited."
In _some_ communities, *vandalism* is a source of pride, so "vandalism incidents will be frequent, persistent and guaranteed"
it's setting the pace for the important stuff. As soon as people get used to trusting these glorified mass transit devices, computer run cars won't be dismissed as a pipe dream.
Since the technology is already here, the important advances in travel will come as soon as there is a market. When I say the technology is already here, I mean that no scientific discovery is needed to pull this off, just some clever engineers and bit pushers.
We should applaud the invention becasue of what it will lead to, instead of ridiculing the present "state of the art."
I'm a concientious
Will they have AI algorithms to ensure that annoying music is played to matter what passenger steps in?
How about artificial smell generators to simulate that real taxi cab experience?
This is a start to driver less cars, but what how many people would trust there lives to a computer, I might, if it did not run windows, but when my car bule screens I do not want to be in it.
Personal Public Transport
Lots of discussion of transportation systems, network layout, engineering, control, etc.
I met a guy at CMU working on vision technology for Mercedes. Ostensibly, the technology would identify pedestrians and make a warning sound.
It sort of worked too, at least from video tapes from a car driving down the street. It could identify human shape and draw a little box around it.
The guy seemed a little distressed when I pointed out to him that his technology looked a LOT more useful as a robotic machine-gun targetting system.
Funny how people can fool themselves.
We also plan a detection system that will automatically stop the vehicle if there is an obstacle in the guideway.
I just hope it doesn't run on embedded windows!
I stole this Sig
This is far from the technology of a futuristic fantasy. There is very little artifical intelligence required to operate these objects. The device runs on a track, which means it doesn't need to know how to follow a path (it only knows how to stop if something jumps in front of it). It can't "drive" to your destination; instead, it runs in a circular path, making regular stops. I would bet that existing subway stations could probably automate their trains as well, but they actually care about the safety of their passengers enough to hire at least one person per car that knows what to do if something goes wrong.
Yes, why don't we get rid of all the agricultural machinery while we're at it, so we can all get back to being rural peasants, and knock it off with this pretentions "technology" stuff.
NO TOUCH MONKEY!
Go ahead and build it, but build it privately. That way, if it fails to provide the service people want, it will simply go away.
The article says it costs "only half as much as Light Rail", but so what? One Light Rail sytem of my acquaintence, San Jose CA, costs 8 times more to operate than it brings in through ticket sales.
The taxpayers are stuck with this bloated wart-hog of a white elephant, a political monstrosity that cannot be allowed to go away.
So maybe this ULTra really is the next GreatThing(tm, us pat off). If so it will pay for itself, and investors will be happy to build it in order to profit from it.
At least that way no one is forced to pay for something they don't want.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
Every once in a while I see piles of boxes of products, early in the morning, waiting outside on the sidewalk for the shop workers to open the shop and bring the new inventory in.
My imediate reaction is, This Is Not New York!
Oh, and the taxis here are clean, smell good, and run on propane.
But just like New York, they don't speak much English.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
...make car stealing available to techies. Just sit in, install new software w/ your own routes and THERE we go.
People who like this sort of sig will find this the sort of sig they like.
Damnit, they're just not intelligent ways to get around. Even if we eliminate the use of fossil fuels with the vehicles, the costs of building and maintaining the roadways, not to mention the fossil fuel consumption THAT involves, is a waste of our resources and unintelligent.
What about trains?? It seems obvious - safer, carry more people with less resource cost, eliminate the nasty roads all over the U.S. (being U.S. centric here as I'm an American, apologize to all non-USians)..I know other countries take trains more seriously, why do the auto manufactures have so much damn influence here? It's just stupid!!! I saw a show on PBS the other night about advances in intelligent cars, and it involved spending tremendous amount in research, investing in new roadways that are prepared for these new cars, etc...why not invest this time and energy in a long term solution?
More public transportation! More incentives to use public transportation! Let's start being intelligent about our future infrastructure...oh, I'm just wasting my breath...*sigh*
Ooops, meant to post an an AC. Well, the story is still true...
Am I the only person who actually LIKES to drive? My commute is the best part of my day. Everyone talkes about the idea of cars that drive themselves as something great... Personally It is something I dread. Do you think this will make cars safer? Do you trust the software that much?
By god, I don't see the wonder in it.
--T
http://www.theMediaBunker.com
This looks like another take on the Ultra-Light Rail Vehicle concept that's been around for a long time now. Basically replacing the "light" rails and trollies we're used to from a lot of cities with really light vehicles running on even lighter rails. Removing something the size and mass of a locomotive and replacing it with something the size of a Honda Civic with even lower mass.
From a pure engineering standpoint, these things are a great idea and are a much better solution to the "public" transit (as opposed to "Mass" transit as we're saddled with now) problem. The rails are relatively inexpensive to fabricate. They're much less intrusive. They can be switched easily to give better coverage. And the vehicles are light, quiet, and cheap.
The vandalism problem is probably the hardest to solve. And the obvious problem of pulling "unusable" vehicles out of service. Still, it's nice to see a city willing to try a project like this.
Never attribute to malice what can as easily be the result of incompetence...
What's the big deal about driver-less transportation? I see this every day - solitary passengers putting on makeup, chatting on the phone, reading the paper, pretty much anything and everything except driving. Real world proof that you don't need a very good robot to run a car.
Will the driver-less cabs understand the line: "Follow that car!"
:)
If not, the private investigator business is going to get much more difficult...
Lack of eloquence does not denote lack of intelligence, though they often coincide.
the orgasmatron . giant vegetables, everyone still driving vw bugs. hmm, perhaps woody allen will be considered the next nostradamus.
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
I had with my mom may come true. It went something like this:
Me: Stupid fscking old people can't drive worth a damn!
Mom: You'll be old someday too you know.
Me: Maybe, but I won't drive like that guy.
Mom: You may once you're old!
Me: People won't drive themselves anymore when I'm old.
Think about it. Either:
1) The "object" threshold is high, which means the first time this kills a toddler, there will be a massive lawsuit
or
2) The "object" threshold is low, which means these will be out of commision the moment a piece of trash crosses their path
Neither setting is workable in a city.
Sig: What Happened To The Censorware Project (censorware.org)
Cars are, quite frankly, a dumb idea. Carting a ton or more of metal around to get usually one, but sometimes up to 4 people around is absurd. The vehicles use more energy to propel themselves than their cargo. Add to this the fact that most people can't even drive properly.
I hope we're all smart enough to live without traffic jams in the future. Who knows? Perhaps we'll have Segway Jams (yeah right) or people just won't need to travel as much, as often.
Looks can be deceiving. Or CAN they?
Please wait for a site operator to respond. .name?f tc.gov: UDRPP?? .name dispute policy information you would have to check with the .name registry .com .name is www.name .name or is it free for all slanderville? .name of someone else, throw up a parody site and get away with it. .name does have different regulations but the basics still apply
You are now chatting with 'Chris S.'
Chris S.: Allow me to introduce myself as your chat representative...
Chris S.: My name is Chris
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uce@ftc.gov: can i register someone else's name for a
Chris S.: Yes, as long as it is in the format of firstname.lastname.name
Chris S.: However some people may have an intellctual property claim on a certain name
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uce@ftc.gov: name
Chris S.: Yes, however if you register a name that is slanderous or if you use the name for slanerous purposes Register.com cannot guarantee there will not be a legal dispute
Chris S.: We do not take responsibility for any legal disputes that may result from such things
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Chris S.: Well you can check our dispute policy at the bottom of our home page
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uce@
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I found their choice of powertrains interesting.
Typically Electric Powertrains are not economically feasible for automobiles. Although The motors are relatively cheap, it's the batteries and motor controllers that create most of the cost.
Why not use an inexpensive proven diesel or gas engine solution? Heck, even Propane or an alternative fuel? My guess is that an electric powertrain controller is more easily controlled via a computer than an I.C. engine. With "throttle by wire" becoming standard on engines, even the control is relatively negligible.
I am not arguing that they are wrong in their decision, I'm just curious to see what influenced it.
Sheesh, don't the editors read /. themselves?
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/01/17/131721 8&mode=thread
And the brethren went away edified.
The best short distance public transport I've ever seen is Disney World's parking lot shuttle. It costs almost nothing to run and moves more people per unit time than anything else. They could be funded out of general tax revenues so the ridership would be free.
Block off all the down-town streets and just run shuttles in loops from parking garages and around town.
Why? Consider how much of the cost of running a public transportation is tied up in getting and accounting for individual fares.
Thye could probably buy a city-full of Disney shuttles for the salaries are of all the staff involved in fare collection.
This would be the perfect transportation solution for a city like Pheonix AZ since the population concentration is very high spread, therefor buses and any other transportation systems are inefficient.
Walking in the crazy summer heat at 120 F from the bus station, home even for short distances would be very annoying if not impossible.
Just when I thought my futuristic fantasies were at their peak, this thing comes along. Now what do I do for fantasy?
Good Subtle, I wish more people would open their minds as you have and reconsider these "one size fits all" tax funded horrors.
At least back before government took over building roads, the only people who paid for them were the ones that used them.
At least it's still legal to home school, even though they won't give you back the taxes they already extracted for that schooling.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
what? and I thought that the world's transportation problems have already been solved by the "Segway".
Remembering your name in the morning is already a good start...
"there would be NO light rail. There would also be no buses, BART, or AMTRACK either.."
And this is bad.....how? I notice that you don't include taxi's in your list.
Before you knee-jerk, think about it: if you had all that tax money that is otherwise removed from your paycheck, what would you do with it?
Might you invest in a local transport project? Might you use it to facilitate your working from home, so you don't have to commute?
Just some considerations to think about before declaring that demand for taxpayer funded transportation would not otherwise be met.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
Duh. Is a train going to be able to pull up to the curb of whatever place you want to go? What about when you have to carry groceries or packages home? And what about dates? Do you think everyone will want to take their girlfriend/wife out on a date somewhere on the friggin train or bus? What about making out in the back seat? How do you do that on public transportation?
We already *know* that cars are inefficient and polluting but they so fit our lifestyle. No matter how good a public transit system is it can never take you "exactly" where you want to go 100% of the time. Then you factor in weather, who wants to wait for a bus or train in the snow? Cars do more than just get someone from point A to point B. Try to include the rest of us in your little world next time.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
What happens when you hail one of these things after it has just dropped off a bunch of college freshmen at 3am on a Saturday morning?
...because I hear they have lots of road rage.
I'm just looking forward to not having some cab-driver make you clean up when you puke 17 beers and half a kebab in the back of one at 3:00 AM....
Never fight naked, unless you're in prison...
While ULTra can be deployed more easily for demonstrations, for city-wide deployment, Personal Rapid Transit, a wheel based monorail, seems better: it requires much less space on the ground and is probably overall cheaper. For more info, see CPRT and U. Washington.
That she does my friend...that she does
"I was not put on this earth to listen to meat! Frylock..were you?" -Master Shake
It would be much cooler to have a transportation system that uses a network of transparent tubes, and shuttle-pods propelled by air-flow in the tubes. Anyone remember the systems they used to have at those old catalogue stores for delivering your order to the warehouse at the back? That's what I want, a giant-sized version of that.
Can we rip out the robot and drive like maniacs while the secret service shoots at us?
I'd really love to see that Johnny robot freak out at peak time traffic too, maybe he should be allowed to give them the fingers and swear like real cab drivers?
- Kaos games and encryption systems developer
"Its designers say ULTra could spell the end of taxi lines, because passengers would find on-call pods at designated stops at least 80 percent of the time."
:)
I doubt this will be the end of the taxi. In my area, as urban as it is, there are no taxi 'stops' around here. If you want a taxi, you have to call a cab company and they send one to you. The times I've used a taxi, I've needed to go places or make stops that a bus or rail wouldn't be able to accomodate.
It also seems that the biggest money makers for Taxi companies are the 'lines' from urbania to the airport. I'd much prefer 55-70 mph in a cab on the freeway than in a little, skinny box doing 25 mph on a proprietary course.
"Advanced Transport Systems estimate that building an ULTra network would cost about one-third to one-half of the amount needed for a light railway."
Okay, I can go 1/2 the speed for 1/2 the cost. All while in a tiny plastic box. That's progress.
For the love of God, I hope they don't plan on deploying those things anywhere near cars. I can imagine the carnage brought on by one of these little buggers when a distracted Volvo or SUV driver T-bones one. I think the end result will be a new bumper for the car and (up to) four funerals for the ULTRa Robo customers.
"Resistant to vandalism"
How many teenagers do you think it would take to tip one of these things over? Looking at the size, shape, and it's materials.. I would have to guess three or four.. I know for a fact, if they released those things in my area when I was a teen, you'd find them sideways with their little tires spinning helplessly on a daily basis.
"designed to stop automatically if they sense an object in their path."
Now any bum or robber can get an accomplice to stand in the cart's path while his buddy robs, rapes and/or murders the occupants. Most taxi drivers I have encountered are armed and will either open fire or stomp the gas when put in a threatening position.
It's a major step towards the future of autonomous transportation, but I'll wait a few generations of these things being deployed before getting all excited. Well, by then I'm sure my expectations will be too high once again. What am I talking about? The only technology I get stoked over these days are faster CPUs and better video cards.
Victor
Commutes are usually so laden with traffic and random assholes that even the best driving enthusiasts hate them.
Drivers are expensive. Keep in mind that if this thing is well built it will probably be able to run about 90% of the time day and night. for that you have to hire 2-3 drivers.
Allow me to make a cool, reasoned reply to your flame. If the number is skewed because of suicide bombings, wouldn't that make the palestinian number smaller? After all, a suicide bomber usually kills at least one other person. As for your second point: while I do believe that the palestinians carry at least some blame for starting this conflict, I also believe that the israelis have handled this situation incorrectly, through poor policies for handling situations. An article in today's New York Times tells of two pregnant palestinian women who were rushed to the hospital by their husbands and family to give birth. Both their cars were fired upon, without warning, at an israeli checkpoint, and both families were killed, with the exception of the babies, who were successfully delivered, one of the mothers, and one other person. Now tell how it is all the palestinians fault again?
Nothing like a reasoned reply to a trollish flame.
Remember, there were no nuclear weapons before women were allowed to vote.
> Actually, that was on PRT (Public Rapid
> Transit) and it was about it being developed in
> the UK. This is about ULTRa, being developed in
> the US.
PRT, ULTRAFAST, AUTOBIKE, VROOM-VROOM, I don't
care.
It is all an immigrant-less cab, at jogging speed,
that will take bread off of some tables and drive
cabbies jobless.
wake me up when our public transportation system is
fixed (Amtrak anyone?), or when there are designated roads for bicycles like Holland and China.
--
Current technology isn't up to driving in heavy traffic, but some kind of system that uses narrow dedicated roadways, low speeds, and automated low-speed maneuvering in station areas is within reach. Automated materials-handling vehicles in industrial plants have been doing that for almost 20 years now.
A reasonable modern design might look something like this:
What's this 21st century hippy thing about buses ? I no longer bus, I _drive_ my own car to work, despite the greater cash expense (parking, gas, maintenance).
Now when I get to work I find myself fully awake and in a great mood. Much better than reading/sleeping on a slow, always late, overcramped bus with a bunch of loud teens.
I like it so much, that sometimes I leave home 20-30 minutes early and just drive around for the joy of it, with my little subwoofer kicking hard and fast. Driving is like the hormonal impact of watching girls make out, it's a gentle tingly feeling you'd want to hold forever (at least until you run out of gas).
-Billco, Fnarg.com
CNN is running pretty much the same story. One of the nice things? "Designers hope that the experience will cost about as much as an ordinary bus journey, or even less if passengers are prepared to share their pods."
:P Still worth a look.
I sure wouldn't mind cheap, available transportation. And if they're letting disabled people and bikes on board (according to the story, they are), they probably won't mind my rollerblades too much.
Rollerblades/Bike + Affordable, convenient Public Transportation = many people won't need cars. The only real problem with the system is the need to put in rails.
This website has details of the track, and a video of the car running on the track. The one really good picture on the site has a guy's fingertip in it.
--
Disclaimer: The above statement probably includes half-truths, because real truth is too complicated.
Look at what we could have had, had our politicians not had their heads up their arses:
Douglas J. Malewicki's SkyTran System
That's right! That was the competitor to what we got, which is a normal, everyday, light rail system (which is somehow supposed to sit adjacent in some fashion to I-17 in some manner, as well as along 19th Avenue - where they plan to find the space, is anybody's guess) - the dollar value of one car (of light rail) could have funded a lot of work on SkyTran - think about that come tax time.
Another thing to think about: Supposedly construction is supposed to start in 2003 - but I have yet to hear anything more on this boondoggle, which I think merely went to line corrupt politician pockets...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
People are usually insulting when they hear something incredbily stupid.
Yes cars are inefficient but they get more and more efficient each year. A car made in the 1950's is 10 to 30 times more of a polluter than a car made today. Emmision standards go up, pollution levels per car go down. Add to that the continuing advances in fuel cell technology and this energy efficiency issue really won't be much of an issue for long.
Again, we're not the ones in our own little world. You are. It can be heard in your very tone. "over-indulgent upper class"? Where do you get off? What are we supposed to do? Feel guilty about our infrastructure and re-design our cities around silly little public transit vehicles that destroy the joy of owning your own car for whatever purpose you may want?
Try to pass this off on a regular woman. Show her a 50 page report in triplicate as to why driving sucks for all of humanity. Then see if you still have a date.
Forget even that. Sometimes people just drive around for hours with no particular destination in mind. Just driving to think or for relaxation. Is that a bad thing too? Should that not be done because it wastes gas and pollutes the air? I have 4 computers that I keep on 24/7 365 days a year. Want me to turn them off so we can save some more energy? How far am I going to have to alter my lifestyle to please guilt ridden saviours of the world like yourself?
Human beings have "desires". We're not logical Vulcans. Sometimes the things we want to do aren't the best choice environmentally, socially, economically....etc whatever. But thats just life. The way you deal with it is you engineer around the issue instead of eliminating it altogether. Cars are here to stay. How we will deal with them is by making them more efficient, less polluting and more economical. Not by replacing them with little pods that stop off at stations that may or may not be near where you want to go.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
What is Apple going to call their version?
iCab...taken
iPod...taken
Guess they'll just have to stick with computers...
This sig provides no comical value.
You and the "Global warming" set always make dire predictions, but you never back it up.
So prosecute poluters. Invest in a for-profit parking garage. Design and sell telecommuting consultant services.
Chicken Little blind assertions may win elections, but they're useless in an argument.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
"Hope you enjoyed the ride!" KABOOM!
BytesTemplar.com
You're smart.
"Ask me about Loom"
London has had something very similar to this, although on a larger scale, for some years now.
The Docklands Light Railway (DLR) is like the London Underground in its design, except the trains generally run on tracks that are raised above roads and go through buildings. The trains are similar to normal Underground trains, but are much shorter, and most importantly, are driverless (at least, most of the time, they normally have at least one person on board looking after things, but mainly its to make sure the passengers don't tear the train to bits).
The system serves the "docklands" area of east-central London, starting at Bank station in the centre of town, and reaching out as far as Stratford, Lewisham and Beckton in east London. It's very accessible as a lot of stations connect with traditional Underground lines.
Granted, it's definately more train than taxi, but it's a good example of the sort of effective urban railway systems that can be retrofitted to a town. In south London, there's a new Tramway system that serves an area from Wimbledon to Croydon, which took years to build but is now very popular. It's a normal "buses on tracks" thing, nothing particularly special, but of course trams get right of way in all traffic situations so they're always a lot faster than buses.
Well there you are you see.
Stuii!
Which is scarier? artificial intelligence or a NYC cab driver?
I think not. Nothing can be vandal-proof.
Think about the fact that these things are waiting at "stops". So one with passengers comes along, and there are 20 in front - do the passengers get out and move to the first one in line? No way, there are points/switches. These can easily be jammed, I'm sure.
Also, they stop when something is in the way. Squad of scrotes wait by the track line, Mr & Mrs Decent get "cab" (I coin the term "personal bus" here) home from the theatre/dinner/whatever. Scrotes block cab path, cab stops, scrotes say "give us all your money or we'll cover you in permanent marker"). A nice little line of punters stream home.
Of course, there'll be CCTV, and people have mobiles, but you get the idea, someone is bound to do it.
Not to mention that if the tracks are at all circuititous, then one failed "personal bus" (TM) could block off a lot of the track and bring the systemto the halt.
How many units will have to be free to allow free ones at every stop 80% of the time? Maybe that's why it costs so much, they have twice as many as ever used!
Money implies poverty (Ian M. Banks)
I'd be careful here, this could be a scam. Anyone else remember what happened to springfield?
[Lyle Lanley] Well sir, there's nothin' on earth like a genuine, bonafide, electrified, six^H^H^Hone-car monorail!
What'd I say?
[Ned Flanders] Monorail!
[Lyle] What's it called?
[Patty & Selma] Monorail
[Lyle] That's right, monorail!
[All chant] Monorail, monorail, monorail...
[Ms Hoover] I hear those things are awfully loud
[Lyle] It glides as softly as a cloud
[Apu] Is there a chance the track could bend?
[Lyle] Not on your life, my Hindu friend
[Barney] What about us braindead slobs?
[Lyle] You'll be given cushy jobs
[Grampa] Were you sent here by the devil?
[Lyle] No, good sir, I'm on the level
[Chief Wiggum] The ring came off my pudding can
[Lyle] Take my pen knife, my good man
I swear it's Springfield's only choice
Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
Monorail!
What's it called?
Monorail!
Once again!
Monorail!
[Marge] But Main Street's still all cracked and broken
[Bart] Sorry, mom, the mob has spoken
[All] Monorail! Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!
[Homer] Mono- d'oh!
Now every teenage boy's room will have
1) stolen stop sign
2) stolen yellow flasher
3) stolen ULTraRobo-Taxi
-- www.globaltics.net
Political discussion for a new world
I hope the purpose of any economy is 'more' and not 'less'
don't confuse economy with society
-- www.globaltics.net
Political discussion for a new world
My, this IS cheaper and easier than driving!
So what? That's not what it's for. From the article:
Advanced Transport Systems estimate that building an ULTra network would cost about one-third to one-half of the amount needed for a light railway.
It's not positioned as an alternative to cars, but to light rail.
Nope, no sig
From the What is ULTra page:
maximum speed 25mph (40kph)
But from the Fact File:
ULTra average speed is about 40 kph
So which is it, maximum speed or average?
Nope, no sig
And it's hardly anything new, there is one that has been running for 30 years at the West-Virginia University, in Morgantown (WV - duh?). (Better pics here).
In Total Recall.
Woohoo! Johnny Cab Here we come!
Private automobiles can travel at perhaps 80-90mph. Whee! Except that in congested cities, cars don't go nearly as fast as their design max speed, or even the legal max speed of 30-35MPH.
Remember, this kind of system is not aimed at your small, suburban college town; if you can fly down streets today at 30-40MPH in your private car pretty much any old time, there is little reason for ANY form of public transporation, period. If you work or travel on the streets of a major city, 15 MPH average speed would sound pretty good. In fact, I suspect there is a minimum average speed that people need to travel at before they give up working in the city, and that is probably fairly low. This drives the need to adopt new technologies and to make major infrastructure changes in a city. If you can't guarantee 10MPH with horse-and-buggies, you have to build roads and parking for autos.
If you do nothing, then transportation becomes a limiting factor in growth, and you may actually contract the size of your city. The question is, if you want to add a 10,000 commuters, what is the best way to accomodate them? There is no general answer to this, it must be answered on a case by case basis.
If you currently have uncongested roads (where cars travel on average close to the legal maximum speed), the cheapest thing would be to just have people come in their private cars. However, if you have congested roads, then adding 10,000 private automobiles would have a large marginal effect on the average travel speed. In other words you get more congested.
In that case, the next step would be to move to busses. If you can get high utilization, then the impact on your existing traffic jams is almost eliminated.
Except that getting high utilization is tough. Travel time on the bus is not so good. The bus moves at the same slow speed as the rest of traffic, but it has to stop to load and unload passengers. This factor is so important in utilization that LA has designed busses for fast load/unload, and given them the ability to change traffic lights as they are approaching intersections.
IIRC there are several significant design features of the system described which combine to allow cars to travel on average much closer to their design maximum than a bus or even a subway. First, end-to-end travel. You don't have to get off to change lines, which saves time. Second, personal travel. The cars are small and serve just you, so you don't have to wait for the cars to load and unload passengers taking different journeys than you. Third, exclusive track/lane. This means that you are not impeded by other vehicles.
Ideally, you could build a "real time" travel system, by which I mean a system which could, barring mechanical break down, deliver a passenger from one point to another in completely predictable time. This in itself would have great value, provided that the average speed was over something like 10 MPH. If you know that you can make a meeting across town in fifteen or twenty minutes, guaranteed, this would eliminate slack time that you would normally plan for the various kinds of unexpected delays. If you could deliver somebody across town at 20MPH average speed guaranteed, for around the cost of a taxi ride, then this would be a popular service.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
You must realize that the roadway system is currently supported by taxpayers because all taxpayers and non-taxpayers benefit from it. Since you live in Canada, a developed country, you can't even think that you don't benefit from public roadway systems.
Anyone living in any first-world country greatly benefits from roadway development! How much would it cost to buy your food, clothes, medicine, or other goods and services if there was no way for them to economically arrive at your local vendors?
Taxpayers, and not all citizens pay taxes, fund the construction and maintenance of these roads for the benefit of the local and national economy. The roadway ifrastructure is an engine of commerce!
Light rail, mass transit, etc. are not fair to taxpayers, as not all taxpayers (most) don't use them, and only marginal economic benefit is provided to the local area by them. In the San Jose example sited at the beginning of this thread, the riders (beneficiaries) of the rail system provide revenue of only 1/8 the cost of operation, which is not profitable in any length of time. If the fares were calculated to be break-even, then the ridership is too low. If the fares were increased to make this operation economically feasible, the ridership will fall even lower. The light rail is limited to pedestrian and bike ridership, with no possibility of commercial utility, so there is no benefit to the local economy derrived from it. It simply doesn't work, so the taxpayers get hosed.
The only exceptions, where mass transit is viable, are where large transient populations exist. Primarily, this would be college towns where the local population doubles when school is in session, and tourist traps. In college towns, you have a large "transportationally challenged" subset of the population, and the local economy does derrive substantial benefit from the public transit ridership. In heavy tourism areas, you will find privatized mass transit that can operate successfully while turning a profit.
The roadway system, while not perfect, does provide wealth by making inexpensive commerce possible. It is a worthy enterprise to be funded by the public.
-- Len
No, this is more like Logan's Run. Woo Hoo! Bring on the Tunnel of Love! Oh shit, wait, I've only got 4 years before carnaval then.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
They will have to run it on Linux or it will stop every 10 minutes or so and mandate that you get out of the car and close all doors, then re-enter :)
http://www.ajaygautam.com
The exact same thing has been running here in Rotterdam, Holland for YEARS now, but when they build it in britain it's suddenly news???
bah....
Oh, and for those that mentioned vaporware, it does actually work, not sure how it holds up to vandalism though, i've never been on it.
"Where the hell am I?"
"You're in a Johnny-Cab!"
The automobile industry here is pretty well regulated. There are also plenty of foriegn cars here. I suppose that Germans are all just car nuts because VW and BMW are both there eh?
The technology to do this has existed for MANY years. It's just a matter of public acceptance, as it is with many other cool things that never came into mainstream. For example, it is much easier to automate subways than cars (one dimensional verses two, no traffic) and we've had the ability to for decades. The only reason is the "safety issue" of the computer malfunctioning, which is probably less likely than a human falling asleep. Another thing: people don't seem to like the idea of machines displacing jobs for humans, but it would probably create more (robot car industry). And the moral of the story is, "be open to new crazy ideas."
MAKE YOUR TIME
One might wonder why we havn't invented something like this yet...or maybe even an electric car that runs as well and as fast as a gas car.
It looks strangely enough like the Johny cab in Total Recall.
I can think of five things I would do in one of those Babies.
1. Fool Around - Like the Mile Hi Club- Cheaper than a motel!
2. Vomit in it. No cabbie hassling you after an all night bender.
3. Stick insulting bumperstickers all over it.
4. Hack it to see if it will run Linux
5. A mobile BEO Wolf Cluster
The Revolution Will Not Be Televised
The next step in your reasoning is to realize that you're absolutely correct about everything, and it's time for you to do something about it.
That means, you build the fscknig system and become a multi-billionare from its success.
To force people at gun point to support you is a pathetic excuse for not wanting to do the work yourself. You're taking the easy way out like every blood-sucking bureaucratic vampire in history.
Produce something good, and people will support it without your using force. Have the courage of your convictions and put yourself on the line, rather than using force and coersion to do it.
People might respect you. And you might fail. But this way, they won't hate you.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
First you say "most roads" without supporting it, were toll roads. They you say that roads are "public goods." Which is it?
By your logic, a private road is a public good. I agree. However, then you mention street lights, which I would gladly see ripped out. My tax money is being used to polute the night sky with so much light people cannot see the stars any more. Such abuse is criminal, but since it's the government doing it they cannot be punished.
And you might like this site:
http://www.mises.org/
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
Really?
:)
You can fit 4 ppl on one of those things?
And it doesn't need a driver?
Marvellous! Bloody marvellous!
.
(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"
Mmmmmmm! Mumph! Munth!
.
(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"
Well, I guess you'd better type a good stiff email to Mr. Moller, then?
.
(David Bowman, EVA near HUGE Monolithic Win-PC in orbit around Jupiter) "My God - its full of Malware!"