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FDA Approves Implantable Microchips
phrontist writes: "Wired is running a story about the Federal Drug Administration ruling that an 'implantable microchip used for ID purposes is not a regulated device, paving the way for the chip's immediate sale in the United States.' Spooky."
How soon until this is mandatory? I've got plenty of room on my forehead now that I'm balding.
Let loose the 7 years!
now, not only can they see how much money you have, but they can see exactly who you are too.... scary (that's a joke, people).
sounds like it's high time to start building some short range RF interference devices. oh wait, that would be a violation of the DMCA.
well duh if it were regulated it'd be harder for corporations to use in various $$$-making schemes.
-tid242
With a few exceptions, secrecy is deeply incompatible with democracy and with science. --Carl Sagan
I had the same thing briefly.. Squid gave me some weird (101) error or somthing.
"Hey! Unless this is a nude love-in, get the hell off my property!!"
"...paving the way for the chip's immediate sale in the United States.' Spooky."
That would be Spooky as in 'Spooky Muldur'
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
Wether it would be better to have this thing implanted in my little finger - so making it EASY to steal if anyone ever decides to steal my ID.
OR. To implant it right deep in my guts as a deterent. Or maybe in the roof of my mouth!
Wouldn't fancy losing my little finger - its handy when a little drunk for proclaiming my evilness. But I enjoy my mouth aswell...
But hey - so long as I dont run for president or anything...
Does this mean I don't have to get my mandatory patriotic tattoo?
Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
If I had kids I'd seriously consider chipping them. I can think of many a time my little sister would pull a disapearing act and be gone for hours. Off with some new friend. This was at an age when she had no business being off alone, much less after dark. It would have saved everyone a lot of grief and the local cops no few hours if finding her just involved a simple querry to VeriChip.
Interesting, and potentially useful device, used in the right fashion, but I wonder how long it will take the overly litigious mood in the US to bring about legislation governing the circumstances under which these are to be implanted.
It strikes me that certain bodies might like to have these implanted in the hospital when you're born, so that you may be IDed through your entire life.
Is it feasible that government could prevent people from taking certain types of high-security job without first having one of these implants?
On a more personal note, I think i woul be interesting to mandatorily implant these in every citizen, and use this as the first step towards ultimate accountability. I realise privacy advocates may find this a shocking and unpalatable notion (I too donate to EFF every year) but I think this could be a step in the right direction, provided that the first institutions to be fitted with reader devices are government departments. This would provide a unique method of ensuring accountability:Rather than the current governmental trend, where people who perform poorly or make grave an incompetent blunders are protected from public reaction by suppressing the detalis of the incident, we could have full, immediat public disclosure of all the particulars of any and every little indiscretion.
This might be useful in reversing the embarassing (to anyone who knows) trend towards promotion of idiots with no chance of succeeding in the real world to positions where they can do maximum damage.
I believe that the FDA did not approve the implants, but rather decided that they are not medical and therefore not under the jurisdiction of the FDA. There's a big difference between being unregulated by the FDA and being approved by the FDA.
Maybe a small update could clear things up.
Chicago2600.net more than a lifestyle, its a survival trait.
There is absolutly no way anyone is going to get me to put one of these things inside my body. This is a product which is ripe for abuse and I'm not having any of it. Hopefully no one will get the bright idea to make it mandatory, otherwise I will have to go live in the mountains of Montana.
Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power - Benito Mussoli
ID chips have been used with animals for a while already - it is rather handy way of registering pets, as they tend to be less verbal when they are asked where they live.
With humans.. Well. The implanted ID chip that can be easily read without the carrier of chip knowing definately wouldn't be a solution to regocnition problems, fakes can be made as well as passports and ID cards can be faked.
"Big brother" style monitoring could be one application, altough it would be really expensive to put in use - imagine the amount of monitoring terminals needed.
It is far more convenient to get the monitored human to want to carry a unit with unique ID which is able to report its position and what the monitored human is saying. Motivation for carrying such unit could be, lets say, fashion or its benefits on making life easier.
Really useful use could be to put the implant in if the carrier has a disease which must be taken in account in medical treatment - tattoos and jewellery do this task better though, as they don't require any fancy electronics to work.
The concept here is that all ER technicians will have the simple scanning device that will pull important medical data off the chip.
If you're unconscious, and the ER tech can just scan off you that you're diabetic and allergic to penicillin, that's a Good Thing.
Of course, conspiracy theorists say that every time you have surgery, the Government is implanting these in us without our knolwedge, and using it to track us. Oooooh!
Give me a break.
- Peter
INsigNIFICANT
...all that wasted time, worrying about those three bleeding sixes on my chest.
Cache Rules Everything Around Me
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Pushin' 'n dealin', shovin' 'n stealin'
I love the way that religious groups believe that such advances are the "devils" work.
Perhaps these people need to take a close look at all the good that can come of these devices, like the guy who wanted one so that if he had medical problems, the paramedics could quickly find out his details. Applications like that are fantastic, and can save peoples lives.
Here is another link to another company that also makes a similar kind of chip.
Error: Erection reset by beer.
I'd like them to have guy's dick size on them.. that way we can know if the dude is worth it before we start talkin to him for real at the bars.. hell we'll even put our boob size(real one) on it for the guys ;)
Using this chips for ID is a horrible idea. You could (relitivly) easily make a copy of someone's chip to impersonate them. It wouldn't be too hard to remove your chip and give it to someone else (it dosn't have to be inside them, they just have to be holding it).
For purposes of identification I think things like finger printing, retinal scans, and good old photo ID are the best choice.
It was stolen anyway.
As near as I can tell, this thing just contains a number which can be read by any scanner you pass. So it's useless as a secure ID because anyone can get your code by scanning you and then using a programmable chip that sends out that code.
They don't say how large the number is. Presumably it's a cryptographically strong random number chosen at manuf. time, but don't bet that the number isn't chosen via rand() % 10000000, either.
It might be useful as a toy to open doors and stuff for you, but a face recognition system will do that without invasive surgery.
Having a Lowjack or something like that might be cool if I thought I could be stolen, but I doubt you can fit a GPS + cell phone unit into a grain of rice. Though if I were going to implant something large it'd be a programmable telephone. Even so I think a StarTrek communicator would be better, and more fashionable. Really, who's gonna get "chipped" because they "think it's cool" to be treated like a herd animal? A tattoo is way cooler.
Does this mean we'll see schoolchildren offering excuses like "I dont have the homework because I got rooted by a bully"?
So the time when kids used to be kids and could do whatever hell they wanted is over. Now, they're prisoners in their own family, and if they're abused there's nowhere to run or hide. They absolutely have to follow all the silly rules. There isn't really any moral dilemma for them to ponder either. Either they do as they're told, or get reeled in by their parents. Another victory for technology! It'll solve all our problems. Yeeehaw!
Excuse me if I'm being sarcastic, but the more you limit a child instead of teaching what is a good idea and not AND WHY, the bigger chance they'll rebel straight into dope-hell. The problem today is that most parents are not fit to have a child at all. They're just too immature.
you are right - if you had kids - you arent wise enough to know whats to be done with kids. Cmon dude grow up.
Here's a tip for all those who dare to make these chips...
Don't EVER even THINK about implanting these in the forehead or right hand. You're just ASKING for trouble. Besides, there are many other places that you could implant such a chip that wouldn't raise the ire of the fanatics out there.
And as soon as there's even a hint that this is going to be mandatory.... I'm moving to the moon.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
and now we are playing catching up.
The first train that we have missed was when the implantable chip was introduced for household pets - to
"aid the owners in indentifying their pets,
in case their pets got lost"
So said the media.
As a member of ACLU, I tried in vain to get the attention of ACLU about this development, telling the higher-ups that if the animals are allowed to be implanted with microchips, one day the same chips will be used on humans.
But the ACLU never care. All they care is to take away the guns from the people.
Now we have this
I wonder what ACLU will say now ?
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
It's "Food and Drug Administration," not "Federal Drug Administration."
Anyway, I don't think that implantable ID chips are a good idea by any stretch of the imagination, but to those of you who say "it just transmits a number, therefore it would be easy to clone somebody's chip," it would be possible to make a (much more) secure chip that accomplishes the same thing. Think public key crypto; if you want to check if this chip belongs to person X, you send the chip a bit of data, it signs it with a private key and only sends out the signed data, not the key itself. Then you check it against person X's public key. It would work on the same principle as digital signatures.
Of course, it would have to have a large enough key that it would be infeasible to brute force any time in the forseeable future (barring quantum computing), and it would have to be based on a proven and time-tested encryption algorithm.
That said, you won't catch anybody sticking one of these fucking things in me.
Think of the possibilities, assuming that they couldn't tell if the chip was outside of your body you'd have the perfect alibi! What do you mean I wasn't at work honey? Just look at the chip records. Well Officer, as you can see from these records I was no where near the bank last night. Maybe you could just stick it on a rat like they did in total recall.
The possibilities are endless!
I stole this Sig
Its all a bit to close to the Terminator/Matrix scenario for my liking.
What a hilarious site!!! Orbs, contrails, UFO's, whee! LOL! It's a laugh a minute.
If you really bite into this stuff, you've got WAY too much time on your hands.
Sure, there's corruption and conspiracy in the government, but this stuff is just outrageous. We have a word for it: schizophrenia.
A solution to the problem with music today
Without regulations on it, would it not be (significantly) more difficult for them to make it mandatory? Even if they were only making them mandatory for a select group of individuals, e.g. sex offenders, the fact that they specifically refuse to regulate them seems to indicate that they just don't want to have to mess with them.
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
When you stick it up a readily available orifice.
What does the FDA have to do with this ?
... duh! Its a chip, and it does nothing to your body. (tho we COULD argue that having a radio emitter stuck inside our bodies could increase cancer odds)
... or at least erase the volatile info (medical records, id, etc) ...
... sometimes i feel that techonolgy sucks, and i have a quad xeon server in my bedroom ...
All they said is that is not their ball park, that means, that its not a food, or drug, or medical procedure, or herb
So far all they said was if they want to sell it the FDA woldn't bother them. And its a voluntary thing, hell you even have to pay to have it installed, i can imagine a load of things i rather spend $200 on !!!
I guess that when these are mandatory in the us its going to be a sad day for all americans, anonimity down the drain, for good, for life.
I dont think that any good that these might do outweigh that simple fact.
I wonder if a stronng, but small, localized EMP would shut it down
blah
I believe the mark of the beast idea has already been taken by hitler.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
But these things have to communicate with the outside, but what about the FCC? I'm sure they'll want a say...
Applied Digital Solutions thinks it can take on the industry juggernaut that is Vivianne Robinson? Her procedure is well established, non-evasive, and only $9.99 (plus $2.00 shipping).
Cache Rules Everything Around Me
Do you currently walk around with your driver's license, health insurance and every other piece of personal information helpfully pasted accross your clothes for anybody who cares to read?
...the VeriChip has been marketed as a medical aid which would allow hospital workers to access patients' health records with a simple wave of the wand, or reader...
The problem with this chip concept is that anybody with the appropriate device can read the information without your consent because it broadcasts it. I quote:
yes yes.... it's for medical purposes only.. it'll never ever be used to id/track/monitor/control people.. our ethical policians are there to protect our rights. The system will prevent abuses. Are you hiding something?
Riiight... I strongly oppose any system that can broadcast sensitive personal data without my consent. Such a device is dangerous and undesirable in my mind.
Next thing you know, your employer will insist you carry these things so they can monitor your productivity.
Do not spread "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" over the internet, thank you.
You could use RF-transceivers as proximity fuses for bombs...
You look like a million dollars. All green and wrinkled.
shouldn't it be the FCC ?
You fung res, remove this fng v-chip from me!
Donate free food to the hungry at The Hunger site.
You visit your local pharmacy...
"Hello, I'd like something for a sore throat"
"Sure, take some FDAnadol"
"Haven't you got anything else?"
"No, the FDA have outlawed chipless drugs."
"But I don't want 'chipped' drugs!"
"Why? Are you a terrorist?"
"Urm no... Well I guess I have no choice then."
Later...
"What's that buzzing in my ear? Hold on.. what?? No I do not want to consolidate debt! WTF?!? No I would not like to learn how to enlarge my penis! Get away!!"
My life is one big siesta in which I'm dreaming I wished my life was one big siesta.
This diagnostic tool will provide valuable information for treating plants with UNIX® and its co-formulations which have excellent activity against both strains of the pathogen.
Source
So, how long before someone combines these technologies and implants UNIX® into people? ;-)
Money for nothing, pix for free
So does this mean when I am 30 it will start to flash?
Of course, as soon as somebody learns to use these to induce euphoria, hallucinations, or any pleasant alteration of consciousness, the technology will be immediately outlawed, 25 year minimum sentences imposed, and SWAT teams will be breaking down your door.
Hi! How are you?
I send you this false identity in order to have your advice.
See you later. Thanks
Also, FDA stands for "Food and Drug Administration," not "Federal Drug Administration."
Come on, that's 8th Grade Civics material right there...
Who did what now?
I'm sure this has crossed more than few minds: doesn't this "VeriChip" remind you of the IDChip hoax?
Mind you, the nonexistant IDChip was billed as an instrument of convenient, universal commerce--not a tracking device for patient data and missing children... still, it conjures a lot of the same imagery.
BRx.
Life after capitalism? The participatory economics project
ADS has been inundated with inquiries from teenagers and other technophiles who are impatient to get the device.
And we all know how concerned with accurate medical records teenagers can be...
1) Get one /dev/me interface, scanner, etc. GPL.
2) Get it out of your body (or never have it put in in the first place)
3) Figure out how it works
4) Figure out how to copy, erase sections, change data.
5) write
Knowledge is for everyone.If this kind of data is kept in the hands of governments and organisations, individuals will lose out tremendously. Like steve mann, we should be counteracting the panopticon structured one-sidedness of modern surveillance and information networks.
Nowadays we should do these things as a means to raise awareness of the dangers and set legal precedents, and in future, we could have a combined coexistent society of watcher and watched all intertwined.
The FDA lack of regulation apparently stems from it being used for non-medical use; the article admits that inserting it is a medical procedure: "The chip, which is slightly larger than a grain of rice, is inserted under local anesthesia during a quick outpatient procedure."
Of course, that begs the question, how is the use non-medical, when the article talks about its medical uses (it can store information about needed medication, and they are talking about giving scanners to hospitals).
On a related note, how long before someone hacks this thing and walks into a hospital .... "It says here he needs a shot of morphine and two joints of medical marijuana. And a dozen doughnuts."
I think i woul be interesting to mandatorily implant these in every citizen...I realise privacy advocates may find this a shocking and unpalatable notion
Privacy nothing, what about my rights over my own body? The privacy implications pale into insignificance compared to that.
Cheers,
Tim
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Blah... come on now. Plesae, take his advice and mod it down. Any self respecting crazy knows that the US envoy in no way represents what the anti-christ is supposed to be.
How will the envoy to the mid east turn everyone away from God/Jesus? Where is his mark on his head? I believe the anti-Christ is supposed to survive massive head trauma or have some sort of major marking on his head (which is why some people actually believed that Jim Brady (of Brady Bill fame) and Mikhail Gorbachev were the anti-Christ).
The truth is, if you sit down and study the bible, you will see that you can predict anything you want from what it says, and interpret it a billion different ways.
For example:
Genesis 1:26 "Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..." (from the King James and Revised Standard Edition)
God must be insane! He'll calling himself us and using "our" for "his" possesive! Insane! Or... there are multiple gods! I think it's pretty clear right there. "Let us make man in our image". Clearly God is referring to himself and his buddy gods (Zeus, Bast, Beelzebub, etc.).
Another one:
Matthew 24:38, 39: "For as in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage up to the day Noah entered the Ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away"
It clearly states right there that we will have no idea that the "end times" are coming. And since I'm guessing that you would think I would not be one of the that would be saved, the very fact that you warned me, and that I now have knowledge of the "end times" coming, proves that it's not coming! Uh oh!
Jesus will be coming for his people very soon
Oh, yeah, because Y2K (y2khai?) is coming! Wait... wait a second... it's already happened... hmm... guess we'll just have to wait another millenia (as we all know, God bases all his decisions upon our calendar).
I know probably most of my thinking is flawed here... but whatever... I'm sick of wack jobs like this guy. He's probably one of those guys who thinks that the perfect, blind, crippled, unbaptised non-christian 6 year old in the mountains of China will burn in hell for all eternity, just because he isn't a devout Christian, even though he's been as perfect a human being as anyone else in the world. If that's the case, then there's clearly no God... for if there is, he made quite the mistake with his little system, and I've always thought that most definitions of God included the idea that he's perfect.
Well, enough of my flawed thinking. Back to studying CS...
(and, btw, I am a Christian)
Casual Games/Downloads
Soon, we will be forced to have one of these implanted. Oh, well, I mean only if we want that job, want to live in that block of flats or want our children to go to that specific school, or..
This sig was generated by a Bunch of Goatse.cx Webmasters for trumpetplayer
Just think about it. Instead of having to find the passports of all the passengers of a airplane/bus/tourist group, and then find out all the Americans so they can be shot, you only have to wave a tag reader around the group.
Much easier. You can even just take it out on a walk in some tourist place and when you get that 'beep' for an american he can be shot right there on the spot.
This also solves problems of double nationalities when people have 2 passports and you only find the european one.
Ahh, life vill be sweet ..
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
So, right next to my Palm/Visor/Clie, while typing this on my tiBook/iBook/Versa, trying hard not to take calls on my Nokia/Ericsson/Motorola, I'll still be trackable by all my creditors ... you know the ones: VISA/Mastercard/etc. ... who I've gone into debt for, just to keep my gadgets upgraded.
...
Whatever. Shit like this is far easier to deal with if you're stoned, so I guess its time for another cone
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
I don't see how this is significant. Just because the FDA believe this product does not fall within their jurisdiction does not immediately mean that the US will become a "big brother" state (any more than at present, anyway).
If the US government passed a law dictating that everyone had to wear a registered chip at all times, then that would be slightly more worrying.
Careful now. .
The Bible, by many accounts, is about 80% Roman propaganda, inspired by the same forces which are running things today, affecting our news agencies and textbook makers with just as much vigor as back then. There is a definite agenda at work here, and manufactured religions, (i.e. nearly all of them, including all of the big ones), are very much a part of the psychological programming at work.
If people believe in the apocalypse according to King James, that it is pre-destined, it will make it that much easier for those who intend to harvest us.
This is a free choice universe, a very powerful truth which some would like you to discard. While Jesus was very likely an enlightened teacher of great influence, his words have been massively corrupted. The Bible is a HUGE lie; it promotes a linear reality, a shutting down of the natural human thinking and questioning process, filling people with a fear of knowledge and individual thinking, and it indoctrinates people with programs like, "Turn the Other Cheek," and "The Meek Will Inherit", etc. --Exactly the kind of thinking you want people to have if you plan to harvest. Don't take over until people are ready to accept their "Shepherds" with open arms. It's all about efficiency and paths of least resistance.
So you are right, stuff is starting to go down as predicted in the bible, but it is only because the whole damned thing is a set-up.
-Fantastic Lad --Shepherds tend their flocks, but they also fleece and butcher them.
(Sorry about the long post. Just had a lot of thoughs going in my head about the subject.)
;-)
;). System that cannot be used for wrong purposes (and again, who is to decide those purposes?).
;) life 24/7.
"I can think of many a time my little sister would pull a disapearing act and be gone for hours. Off with some new friend. This was at an age when she had no business being off alone, much less after dark."
And what would this age be? 10? 14? 18? Before she gets married? (Last one would propably be the opinion of every father in the world, especially if the device reports when a man gets closer than 3 feet to his little daughter
I'm not so worried about the government watching me, as I am of what parents might do to their kids. Yes, device like that WOULD prevent kidnappings and such evil things that happen to children. But at what cost? Generation of children, that are 100% of the time under their parents' eyes? Seriously, how many of you think that a child would get trough that without getting mentally damaged?
Device like that would save lives and make life better for everyone, IF USED PROPERLY. One thing is, that parents themselves SHOULD NOT have the possibility to trace their children. Only police (or some other institute like that), when it is certain that the child really is missing. And not just hanging out with friends that his/hers parents don't like quite so much.
But then again, there should be 100% trust between this tracing-able organization and people (especially those who are spooky.. Although those guys can never be quite satisfied
I quess that most of the people writing comments here, have been "good" children. No doing what your parents tell you not to do, and behaving nicely even on your own. No rebellion, no drug use, no alcohol until 18 and so on. You don't understand what goes on in a mind of a child, who thinks that his/hers parents are trying to control his/hers (goddammit english sucks, why can't you have one word for human person, instead of words for both genders?!?!
A good friend of mine is a so called "bad" child. She started smoking about 11, cannabis and alcohol at 12, amfetamin, heroin and such at the age of 13-14.
If someone (parents, childcare, me) tries to control her life, she freaks out. If her parents had had a device so that they could have tracked her down allways, she would propably have killed herself.
How soon until this is mandatory?
Truth is, its going to happen for most people with or without having a chip inserted. Biometric identification (such as iris identification) will enable people to be tracked wherever they go, at least outside of their own homes. Your mobile phone lets you be tracked pretty much anywhere, as does your always connected PDA. Computer recognition of your car plates allows instant tracking of your travels, and its been around for years now. Some smart cards such as credit cards can be activated from a distance (so you don't have to swipe them at a checkout). The list goes on.
The most difficult issue here is the recognition that we need a bill of rights to protect our privacy. This information will be collected on all of us, whether or not we like it, and even if you don't get a chip implanted in you.
We need to accept that this information is being collected now. We need legislative protection, ideally at the constitutional level, so that even if a company has this information, they are limited in what they can do with it. This has been needed probably since the first day a telephone book was published, but it is certainly needed now.
My 2c worth,
Michael
There is no cryptographic solution to the problem where the intended receiver and the attacker are the same entity.
Maybe this sort of thing could help Inigo Montoya find that man who killed his father.
And so it goes.
Want a confirmed kill? Seems reasonable... assassination devices could be implanted in everyday items or places, merely waiting for the intended target to enter proximity. This could open a whole new world for precision, stand-off assassination!
The Bible, by many accounts, is about 80% Roman propaganda, inspired by the same forces which are running things today, affecting our news agencies and textbook makers with just as much vigor as back then. There is a definite agenda at work here, and manufactured religions, (i.e. nearly all of them, including all of the big ones), are very much a part of the psychological programming at work.
>>>>>
Huh? Roman propaganda? Gentile (as opposed to Jewish), perhaps, but not Roman--early Christians were persecuted for a long time; it only stopped around the time of Constantine. Even then; you have to realize that most of the NT was written by Jews... Paul, [the writers of] Mark, Matthew, Hebrews, etc. are clearly Jewish. Granted, they no longer represented the Jewish orthodoxy; but if they did, they wouldn't be Christians any more...
>>>>>
If people believe in the apocalypse according to King James, that it is pre-destined, it will make it that much easier for those who intend to harvest us.
>>>>>
If you have any expectations whatsoever which are known to another party, they can be used to manipulate you. If you have no expectations whatsoever, you are out to lunch... I should hope that you expect the sun to rise tomorrow, or gravity to remain in effect (the mathematical descriptions thereof notwithstanding).
>>>>>
This is a free choice universe, a very powerful truth which some would like you to discard. While Jesus was very likely an enlightened teacher of great influence, his words have been massively corrupted.
>>>>>
Since theologians have been using the 'free will' defense for ages, I'm not sure who is asking whom to discard what. Are you talking about Calvinists here?
"Massively corrupted" is rather nebulous. If you mean that the quotes of Jesus are likely not word-for-word, okay; if you mean something else, please explain (and give examples from the text). The ancients weren't so willy-nilly in quoting people as some suppose, however. I refer you to the beggining of _The_History_of_the_Pelophonesian_War_ for how one ancient historian got his quotes. It should be available on classics.mit.edu, IIRC.
>>>>>
The Bible is a HUGE lie; it promotes a linear reality, a shutting down of the natural human thinking and questioning process, filling people with a fear of knowledge and individual thinking, and it indoctrinates people with programs like,
>>>>>
The Bible does no such thing; people do. What, pray tell, is "linear reality"? If you mean the notion that all issues are black & white; I disagree. Even the Apostles debated various things amongst themselves, according to Acts...
>>>>>
"Turn the Other Cheek," and "The Meek Will Inherit", etc. --Exactly the kind of thinking you want people to have if you plan to harvest.
>>>>>
*Who* is planning to "harvest" whom??? Non-violent resistance *does* work, however. I refer you to MLK & Ghandi... not to mention the eventual Christianization of the Roman Empire...
>>>>>
Don't take over until people are ready to accept their "Shepherds" with open arms. It's all about efficiency and paths of least resistance.
>>>>>
Who is taking over what??? Do you think that silly "Jewish conspiracy" plans to take over the financial sector? Explain!
>>>>>
So you are right, stuff is starting to go down as predicted in the bible, but it is only because the whole damned thing is a set-up.
>>>>>
By whom? Who is in a position to 'set it up'? Do you think that someone decided that the best way to reform Israel was to convince Hitler to make war with everyone, then impose the 'Final Solution' so that afterwards, those who ended his tyranny would have sympathy & give them back their ancestral homeland? If it wasn't known beforehand, it could not be prophecy; if it was, everyone just says "it was obviously self-fulfilling" without bothering to explain who it influenced in what way & how said events would not have occured without it...
> Shepherds tend their flocks, but they also fleece and butcher them.
Historical context: in the time & place where those sayings were composed, sheep were too valuable to butcher. Sorry. The 'fleecing' bit is just wordplay.
Hmmm...tamper-proof, huh ? Yeah...
... --
Crackers, anyone ?
-- The world was built in six days. The seventh wa spent looking for the undo button
I think i've had a bunch of these things in my head for a long time. I never realized that my cluster headaches were of the beowulf variety.
Is it just me, or does the chip in the photo look rather like the tracker that Agent Smith sticks into Neo near the start of The Matrix?
Just another wannabe fantasy novelist...
Are you all fucking kidding me? You are all the guys that get hung up about so much as MAC addresses being seen as personnally identifiable on the internet. And none of you are ABSOLUTELY OUTRAGED that the FDA has approved IMPLANTED ID CHIPS? I will DIE before I end up with some fucking chip inside me. I don't have so much as a tattoo on me, I shure as hell don't need my life story on some fucking piece of flash memory inside my ass.
Watch this story catch sub-1000 posts when it is more important and outragous than any five stories on the hof. I can deal with not being annonymous on the internet. I can choose not to use it if it comes to that. But if I cannot so much as walk down the street without every Corporation, Government and Asshole knowing more about me than I know myself, I am certainly no longer free, not by the greatest stretch of the imagination about "the good of mankind" or "medical miracles" or "protection from kidnapping"
Gimme a fucking break. Have you seen the first test case family? They are freaks! the son is some 180 iq juvie with dreams of becoming arnold in terminator because he is fat and his lips are too big. Daddy has been smoking weed for 30 years. Mommy a vacant follower who does everything fat assed sonny says because he's smarter than she is. Their fucking quote is "It's all Derik's idea, he is so bright that we are taking his advice on this". Jesus Christ, the kid is still wet behind the ears.
Derek's list of accomplishments at 14 (the wired article got it wrong):
He's an MCSE/MCP/A+
and is the owner of a fucking counsulting business
You tell me, does everyone here want to follow this jackasses lead?
If voting were effective, it would be illegal by now.
Yeah. It'll be like a driving license, or a credit card. It won't be compulsory, just eventually you'll cave into having one because you'll get so much less hassle that way.
said this...
My $0.02 will always be worth more than your â0.02, so
Sure: a govm't agency or sufficiently large medical facility could sequence your DNA and thus steal your private key, but then they would have to get a look-alike for you, implant a false-broadcast chip in them and send them out to do their bidding.
That would be a monumental, though not impossible feat.
I wouldn't doubt that they could build a chip which grabbed a sample strand of dna and used it as the private key. I don't even think it would actually have to sequence all the chromosomes, just one should be long enough.
My $0.02 will always be worth more than your â0.02, so
Harvest us?
This sounds like a B-Movie script, you're not one of them Xenu hating folks are you?
Your posting history suggests more of an MJ12 / illuminati freakery, but then you go on about all this programmed & harvesting stuff. So which is it. Give us the synopsis? What's your poison? Us poor dumb chickens need a label.
I hope microsoft doesnt touch a finger on these chips! :) Can anyone imagine human beings causing fatal errors or bsod? :))))
sorry, i couldnt resist it!!
Fabio - Sumare/Sao Paulo/Brazil/South America/Earth/Solar System/Milky Way/Universe
http://www.morroida.com.br
MAybe if your friend's parents had been able to find her smoking at age 11, she might not be so mentally disturbed that she might kill herself if her parents could find her shooting heroin on the street at age 13. For fuck's sake, can we have some priorities? Assuming your friend's parents aren't abusive, they ought to have an eye on her 100% of the time, for her own good, until she can demonstrate she's able to control her own life.
Whatever happened to JonKatz?
Gee, doesn't this sound like something out of the movies?
Insert Sig Here
As near as I can tell, this thing just contains a number which can be read by any scanner you pass. So it's useless as a secure ID because anyone can get your code by scanning you and then using a programmable chip that sends out that code.
How do you know it doesn't use a challenge-response system based on public-key crypto?
Will I retire or break 10K?
Here's a link to a great 2MB PDF on the subject. At 125kHz, it's really simple to recover the data. Note that antennas at that frequency are pretty large, and could, say, be wrapped around the trim of a doorway, or around the opening in the floor for a staircase, etc... you'd never know who was reading your key. Match a doorway reader with a digital camera, and poof! You've got an automatic ID database generator!
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
If I have a chip implanted when I'm 5 years old, my address and medical history is most likely going to change half a dozen times by the time I'm an adult.
How will information on the chip be changed or added to? Can they zap the info to it wirelessly, or will they have to dig the bugger out of my body when they want to change my phone number or add a medication to it?
get this satalite out of my ass and replace it with a chip.... Damn aliens...
-ZiN-
In the absence of any security, it seems like these devices could make identity theft even easier. I hope there will be be controls on who can access the information contained in these microchips. I for one have chosen to not wear a sign around my neck proclaiming my medical history for anyone who can read.
--
"I'm don't know exactly what an AS/400 is, but I'm pretty certain I wouldn't want one up my ass" --Lou
Creeping Zombie Jesus, why do these things always have to be IMPLANTED IN A PERSON?
I mean damn, why can't this thing be a ring or (wonder of wonders) like a credit card.
And another damn thing...for those of you who say this is good for medical emergencies, What the hell ever happen to those ID bracelets for medical emergencies!
No, Vern. They just let him in.
1. An implantable chip will become the target of electronic counter measures a. faraday shield to get past scanner undetected b. installed on/off switches c. reprogrammable ID's d. multiple chips implanted
2. The more a system is trusted, the slacker human oversight becomes a. Lower paid workers are easer to bribe b. More intelligent workers take better paying jobs c. The innocent are assumed guilty, not the system (as if they care until it happens to them) d. The lower the probability of bypass the less alert the scanner e. Maintenance is ignored, and mean time to repair rises
3. Tatoos have certain advantages a. They don't break and can't be turned off b. You can't claim it is was stolen without showing a large patch of missing skin c. Only the very evil will try to steal a tattoo and the punishment will be severe d. Everybody and their brother will work hard to find the thief e. A stolen tattoo won't last long f. Much harder to spoof the person scanning one. g. Not easy to reprogram and many modifications will be permanent
Thankfully, due to the Bible, it will be a dark day before Big Brother gets to use them. You can understand why those that get one, and make it more socially acceptable, will be considered enemies of humanity and God.
So, what they will do is set up a system with smart cards or implantable chips and let people get accustomed to the intrusion. Then there be a big media push about all the problems of the present system and the advantages of the tattoos. And it is down hill from there (assuming you don't think Bush's never ending "war on terrorism" isn't the first shot).
she's been in control
Yes she has been in control. Too bad she is obviously not ready to be in control.
Remove it and you will see..
echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
It's the "Mark of the beast" ... and another way for the "authorities" to invade our privacy.
"The best laid plans of mice and men gang oft agley..." - ROBERT BURNS
You could wear a braclet with the chip embedded, or your fingerprint could be matched to a database, or your DNA, or your retinal pattern.
The chip is a device to monitor movement. All other uses are an obfuscation of this fact.
It's about damned time! Now I can finally stop signing my cheques, or using PINs, or anything... just wave my hand over the register, and money is taken out of my account... Finally!
At first, the implantable chips will be used, just like now, to contain medical info and some identification. And for paranoid parents, living in the safest communities in the history of the human race, it will be used as an anti-milk carton safety device.
The use for medical info is silly. Such a chip could be put into a watch, or a bracelet, or an earring, or a pendant.
The use for children will endear the tracker to parents, but think: if the chip responds to a radio signal, than a rather cheap device can be built to find the chip on the child's body. A person sick enough to kidnap a child would have no problem cutting the chip out of the body. They might even think it an extra dollop of fun.
So, I ask, why a chip...
Well, first of all, it's going to make its developers rich, as it becomes more widely used, and eventually, mandatory.
The first effect of the the chip's existence is the acclimatization of people to the idea that a device can be implanted into them which will enable others to track their movements. Our generation will balk, but the next will be okay with it, and the one after won't even question it. Think of urine tests for jobs, and endless civil rights violations commonly committed today in the name of fighting drugs, and now, terrorism.
Next, the chip will be implanted involunarily into former felons, and later into 'lawbreakers' at a judge's discretion. All these uses will be applauded in the name of public safety. Of course, the number of people now regarded as "felons" is swelling, now that the drug laws are being enforced in a draconian fashion. There are probably millions of people qualified today to wear a chip by legislative or judicial decree.
Of course, a real criminal will find a way to circumvent the device, or remove it entirely. Only moderately law-abiding people will continue to carry it.
next up, you guessed it, Businesses! In the name of preventing terrorism, monitoring employee theft of materiel or company time, and just plain convenience, lower level employees (NEVER executives, unless there is a security reason to do so) will find that having the chip implanted is a requirement for employment. At first, we'll see defense-related companies requiring trackers, but after that gains acceptance, then other companies will follow... eventually most of them, or at least the ones that pay well, will require some sort of tracker.
Of course, Schools!! Thinking Of The Children, we will of course require our threatened kinder to wear these devices as a condition of even having an education. It'll start out small, somewhere -- a schoolyeard killing with no way of finding the killer, or a child molestation, crimes that will make a privacy proponent think hard when it comes to protesting. but like metal detectors, drug testing, strip searches, and the like, it'll be accepted. As the majority of the current SCOTUS opines, if you are underage, you have no constitutional rights. And if you protest, you are a DRUGGIE parent who should send your kids to a DRUGGIE school. (I'm not making that last part up. It's staggering.)
Let's see: next up, consumer convenience. A chip, in addition to tracking, can give you e-cash abilities. Buy a coke, pay for it by swiping your hand into a detector. That may be a killer app.
The chip can be used for national ID, eliminating all the birth certificates, social security cards, drivers' licenses, company ID's, resumes, credit histories... endless stuff. People will find this liberating.
But it also means: anyone who wants to, will be able to track your movements for the totality of your life, at least the parts where you interact with society.
It means that, increasingly, to get an education, to get student loans, to enter the country, to get a job, to have a career, to get a passport, you will have to surrender your body to an implant gun. And now since the FDA has so conveniently taken medical people out of the loop, anyone can demand to shove one into you, literally.
And since the U.S. is now forcing other countries to change their constitutions (think Norway, I recall, and the Scientologists) to reflect our laws, there will be increasingly no place to go to get away from this. Hell, the U.S. may be one of the more relaxed implementations.
If any of you think that this is acceptable, then there is nothing I can say that will change your mind. And I will attempt to establish a new country on a Pacific island, I swear.
The Applied Digital Solutions chip sounds nearly identical to the one produced by a company in Corona, CA, for implantation in animals, especially pets, for identification. I think that the vets charge about $40 and there is not yearly database fee. The insertion process takes less than 5 minutes including registering the data.
I don't suppose that the chip costs more than a dollar so the markup from Applied Digital Solutions is really high so their stock should rise.
Nate
Nate
First, the FDA did not approve the device. They simply made an administrative determination that they do not posess the authority to approve or deny the devices use.
Second... All biblical stuff aside, this is disturbing. Installation is a simple procedure according to the artice, but what about removal? I assume its probably simple, but who knows?
Thankfully, its an opt in device.
I can see a handful of legitimate uses for such a device being mandatory. Well, one. Special operations forces could use a similar device with a GPS reciever for coordinating with other teams and higher headquarters. Those sorts of operators must travel light and can't lose equipment or they could give their position away, so there would be significant tactical benefit to it being mounted internally. For regular troops, external GPS will work just as well if not better with less privacy concerns. Remember, while joining the Armed Forces means giving up some of your constitutional rights, the general doctrine for such things is constitutional rights may only be sacrificed when ABSOLUTELY necesary for building an effective force and maintaining military discipline. An implanted ID card like this just goes too far for anyone but special operations.
Still, while I don't like it, as long as it remains optional, its ok. For most people though, SMART cards will probably be better, and if you need emergency notification of the hospital in the event of emergency, a heart rate monitor(they should be smaller than the one I used when I was a kid) attached externally to the waist with a transmitter shoudl work just as well...
...would make it a point to do a little amature surgery shortly after the abduction. I mean, many of them are just going to rape and kill the kid anyway, what difference does a little scanning and cutting make? If they hit an artery, no biggy, just find another kid.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
What evidence is there that there ever existed a historical character corresponding to Jesus? ... the two tended to be mixed.)
This is all based on second had sources, but I tend to believe it:
1) The Essenes had similar stories years before 1 AD. I seem to remember that the time from their records was 300 or 400 BC.
2) The records of the trial were not preserved by either the Jews or the Romans, both of which were carefull record keepers.
3) Much of the work, when read from a certain perspective, seems to be more a radical political party manufering in a theological society than anything that we'd currently call religion.
4) John the Baptist was a political revolutionary on the model of Elijah.
5) Jesus was called a rabbi, and I believe that the rules of the time required that a rabbi be married with children. (Prophet seems more accurate, but the prophets were at least as much political as religious
N.B.: I acknowledge that this point doesn't directly address the historical nature, except to indicate an inconsistentcy, but it certainly indicates that any historical figure who might have been there didn't closely match the current conception.
6) For a miracle to be believed in, any alternate explanation should be less probable. For me, at least, the belief that the story was the work of an underground political group attempting to stir up popular sentiment is at least as plausible as accepting that it is historically valid.
7) Large parts of the New Testament were purged at the Council of Nicea. Largely because they would make it too difficult for the Bible to be believed as truth. (There may well be other reasons, as we don't know all of what got purged, but only a few examples.)
8) The Bible was for centuries under the control of a central authority that proclaimed which versions were valid and which were not. Much of what is in the bible is known to be from a prior period, but much isn't, also. I expect that a great deal of "editing for consistency" was done during this period.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Oh yeah. It sounds like a bad cyberpunk movie. I guess it's almost time to become a decker...
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds, and the pessimist fears this is true." --James
Seriously, the reason for all this is that the U.S. is losing power. The international community is asking the U.S. to be a participant, rather than a world bully as exemplified by the Kyoto summit. The U.S. is as distrustful as an Israeli in the Middle East in giving up even a little power though. So we (the U.S.) are wrenching all over the place trying to find new sources of power, e.g. these goddamned hair-brain chip implant ideas.
"The definition of a medical device appears in section 201(h) of the FD&C Act. A device is "...an instrument, apparatus, implement, machine, contrivance, implant, in vitro reagent, or other similar or related article, including a component, part, or accessory, which is recognized in the official National Formulary, or the United States (U.S.) Pharmacopeia, or any supplement to them, intended for use in the diagnosis of disease or other conditions, or in the cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease, in man or other animals, or intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of man or other animals, and which does not achieve any of its primary intended purposes through chemical action within or on the body of man or other animals and which is not dependent upon being metabolized for the achievement of any of its primary intended purposes."
So why is a silicone bag under the skin a medical device and a rice-grain-sized electronic gizmo is not? Contact lenses are FDA regulated devices. Tampons and pads are regulated. Band-aids are regulated. This thing is being marketed as something to facilitate access to medical information, and it certainly affects the function of whatever body part it's implanted in by making that part suddenly able to produce information through interaction with radio waves. How is that not, "intended for use in the diagnosis of disease or other conditions, or in the cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease, in man or other animals, or intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of man or other animals?" Someone? Anyone? This strikes me as FDA saying, "ooh, controverted issue. Run away! Run away!"
Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
as long as its optional i dont care, but the minute it because similar to gattica - as in i can only get a decent job if i have an implant because there to lazy to do a background check on me or whatever then this is problem
Ave Molech Setting
The Verichip is nothing more than a passive microchip that is implanted in the subject. This technology has been used since 1985 to track livestock and is currently being marketed to the upscale, urban pet markets. Strays are often routinely chipped, in order to see how often they end up in the pound. If they're in-and-out, then well, they're put down.
The reason that the FDA determined that the Verichip is not a medical device is because it really isn't. It is rather small and is implanted through a large syringe. It leaves a small scar, not horrible but noticable. The chips are coated with a special protein to avoid rejection; the host's cells assume that it is native organic material. (Interestingly, sometimes this is ineffective and the chip will "migrate" throughout the host's body)
As speculated in the thread, the only information a particular chip contains is a single, unique number. Anytime the chip's circuit is activated by a scanner, it will reply with this number. It is not encrypted in any form at this point. It should be noted, however, that now that these chips are approved, other, more secure chips could be brought to market. Think of this ruling as a "foot in the door".
The company that makes the Verichip already sells GPS tracking chips that are not implantable (used in bracelets, watches, etc.). It is reasonable to assume that the Verichip 2.0 will contain this functionality. They are currently marketing this technology as a "cure" for corporate kidnappings in South America, which are much more common than you might imagine.
The company swears (at this point) that they will not sell the chips to anyone who makes them mandatory, including corporations, prisons, and governments.
This technology is upon us. It is important to understand it and make strides to avoid its abuse.
Digital Angel talks about vehicle location systems, while others have been shipping them for years. Big deal.
Implanted ID chips for pets have also been around for years. There are at least three vendors, (Digital Angel is one) and they're not compatible. So they're of limited use. They're just short-range RF tags, anyway.
If anybody had a good method for powering an implanted device, it would be used for pacemakers.
People will need these things so they can avoid paying a 100% surcharge on groceries when the food vendors make them mandatory.
Jolt Cola:
with the chip: $1.29
regular price: $2.59
YOU SAVE : $1.30 WOW!!!
Year-to-date saving $1700 DOUBLE-WOW!!!
-----------------
Notice from your health insurance provider. "Our records" indicate that your diet...
Estimated surcharge...
You are too stupid to live.
... "Oh, we found Suzy Smith's arm!"
This is not a human Lo-Jack.
The best this does is say (when a severed limb is found)
However, I imagine a human Lo-Jack is just around the corner.
OTOH, the reason this works for pets is because they are to stupid to use the spoken language and say "I'm Spot and it sucked being in the woods for two days, take me home to 325 Spring Lane please".
If you have a child with simular spoken language problems, and you let them roam free for hours, I guess this implant is right for you....
-- www.globaltics.net
Political discussion for a new world
I would've jumped off the nearest bridge the moment my father's back was turned if he had tabs on me 100% of the time (and thus, would beat me mightily for -every- little thing I did).
I'll never have kids partly because of him, and partly because of crap like this. And mostly because I know I won't be an effective parent.
--
Me spell chucker work grate. Need grandma chicken.
wtf is dope-hell....
And no, the time kids can do whatever they want is NOT over. Parents have things called white lies. If you were smart you would carefully 'monitor' the location with this chip and let the growing person never know about the chip, only making it known if and when it was absolutely necessary. SO please, don't be paranoid about it, it's disgusting.
I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
"And Jacobs' wife, Leslie, believes the chip could become a tamper-proof way to identify people in an increasingly insecure world. "
tamper-proof my ass.. if i ever got one of these in my goddamn body you can bet your life that I would be tryin to hack that shit...
Uhm... yeah... how long do you think its going to take some kid to realize that he's got a goddamn chip in his fucking right hand when he goes to the airport and the ID scanner pulls up some info on him... and then he's going to be all the more fucking pissed that you never told him, and will hate you for life... besides all his friends will probably know too and you can damn well bet he'll ask you if he's got one too.. lie to him about that one and there goes the trust for life...
(Sorry about the long post. Just had a lot of thoughs going in my head about the subject.)
It's fine.. happens to us all...
Don't we all put controlled substances into our bodies?
Nope. You're just knee-jerking without thinking this through.
Does today's CIA have America's best interests at heart? --Think about things like their covert support of the hard drug trade. --And plans like this whole microchips in people thing have 'secret service' stamped all over it. The CIA is just a pawn of hidden forces which don't care about the U.S., and yet, the CIA remains an agency peopled by Americans. --Thus, their actions are 'American' in the most nuts and bolts sense. This is how I meant it when I said the bible was 80% Roman propaganda. Perhaps this was misleading, since it wasn't strictly a Roman born idea, but they enacted and enforced it; they mass-burned the clearer writings, put false prophets into place, and allowed easy distribution of the twisted materials. So who the hell else am I going to pin all this Roman funded activity on? Lizards? Sheesh.
Now think: Is it not reasonable to believe that the Romans had their own secret service? (A centuries old empire? They MUST have!) --And is it not reasonable to believe that it was corrupt? --Democracy certainly doesn't work to control such agencies today, and the same forces which would wish to corrput such an agency were just as real then as they are now. Quite simply, the same way the American secret agencies manipulate CNN and public thought patterns, the Roman counterparts were involved in similar activities aimed at shaping the public psyche. The various books of the bible would have been prime targets.
The place where people are getting derailed in this thinking is that they are allowing the 'impossible' to prevent the pieces to fall together in a meaningful way. This is the primary lie you are being distracted from noticing. All you need do is climb out of the neat little boxes. If you are going to think archeology, you must also think geology. . , and that's a very very simple example. You must be willing to go against the flow and put several VERY VERY obvious areas of current news, history and scientific disciplines together in order to form the whole picture. The fact that such a simple task is found practically impossible by nearly everybody is a tribute to just how effective the programming has been.
Are you up to it? Try it just for fun and see where it leads you.
-Fantastic Lad
This whole implanted chip thing is WAY too obvious. As such, its true nature is almost certainly meant primarily to be psychological. It's designed to piss people off and increase their tension level. (Especially among southern law enforcement agencies and right wing anti-government types who love their guns.) Why do you think they would make something like this line up with the whole 'independantly related' number of the beast crap?
Try this on for size:
Practically EVERY fascist government in history has begun the same way: People were rioting or revolting or what have you. This gave whatever leadership available at the time the context and excuse underwhich to bring in the heavy forces and do away with all semblance of civility and personal rights.
Think about this, and don't thunder about and get angry with what I'm saying, because this is not a direct course of manipulation designed to be open to immediate interpretation. If it were obvious, it wouldn't work. When the camel's back breaks, it will not be because of this whole chip thing, but it wouldn't be able to happen without it and other such methods by which the temperature has quietly been raised to boiling for the poor frog!
Watch and listen. .
Hey! Did anybody else notice how for the first time they slipped the word, "FEMA" into Martin Sheen's mouth on "The West Wing" this Wednesday. . . (My current favorite source of mind control and propaganda!)
Look, watch and learn. . . You don't get to see the end of the world unfold every day. There is some really clever work going on right now.
-Fantastic Lad
This is ultimately a pretty silly device, but it wouldn't be such a bad idea to make a big public fuss over it either way--simply on principle. A real danger would be some sort of next generation id-chip that injects nano-tech transmitters that cannot be removed with a scalpel and tweezers. The next step after that would be some sort of mind control functionality by interfacing nano-tranceivers with neurons. Think "a Clockwork Orange" meets the Borg..
You make good points, but how many times does you young daughter sneak out before you need to take extreme actions?
Not all rebelious children are the result of bad parenting.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Just wait until the right wing Baptist preachers hear about this one!
Actually, that came with the King James translation. Royalty address themselves in plural.
Karma Clown
Why is it that the most contrived situations (kidnappings, medical situations involving odd alergic reactions, etc) are accepted as valid when considering this technology yet we'll outlaw every gun on the planet despite a large number of situations where they might be useful (ie if someone is breaking into your house the mere sound of a pump shotgun will make them flee)? When we're willing to allow our every movement to be tracked but unwilling to stop laws from eroding our existing rights we know that the end is near. As the saying went, those who trade freedom for security lose both. And deserve neither.
On the other hand, just as there are Web sites that specialize in letting you hide your true identity, there will be debit cards that perform exactly that function, so you will be able to buy your pr0n and eat it too.
When God said "our" it is referring to the Trinity - God in three persons - The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
.02 - If you said that prayer just now, and you have asked God to do that for you, then guess what, you've just been saved. Being a Christian means you're saved and you *want* to be Christ-like. E-mail me if you made this decision, and I'll do my best to point you in the right direction. I don't have all the answers, and I don't pretend to, but I will search with you so that we both can grow in Him.
I agree - you can twist the Bible's words anyway you want to, but as Paul said, if you're preaching anything other than the truth, then you are a deciever and God takes care of them, it's not our job.
The third thing is, if that little 6 year old kid doesn't see the sacrifice of Jesus when He took our places on the cross, then yah, he will spend eternity separated from God. The sad thing is, we all fall short. We all can't make it on our own, we need Him. But don't be forlorn, everyone gets a chance to accept Him. The bible says "Even the rocks and the trees will cry out" if we don't go out and be His witnesses.
This kid, who has lived a perfect life as any other human being, has sinned. So have we. We can't judge, it's not our job. We're in the same lot with that kid. The bible also says we can't get into Heaven by works alone. If we could get into Heaven by following the laws of God, then Christ would have died in vain, and preaching and witnessing would all be pointless, because God came down to Earth, put limits on his perfection and unbounded strength and power to be one of us, so we would trust Him.
On one weekend, what we now celebrate as Easter, Christ was beaten, spit upon, speared, pierced with a crown of thorns, and then finally nailed to a cross on the place called Calvary. There, He recieved shame and guilt, though he was sinless. He lived through everything we lived through, and never sinned - because the sacrifice needed to pay for our sins had to be pure.
Back in the days of the Law of Moses, when people sinned they went to the altar and burned the best animals they owned in place of them as a sacrifice, because The Sacrifice had yet to come. Why? Because God said "The wages of sin is death," and in this case death means "eternal separation from God." God came down as God the Son, in human form, to be the sinless ultimate sacrifice.
When Jesus was hanging on the cross, he felt the pain and agony, but also the shame and guilt of every pedophile, murderer, rapist, liar, bigot, you, me, our families, our christian and non-christian friends and enemies alike. All of us. Every sin ever committed or ever will be committed. All of that, all at once. He lifted his head and said "Father, why have you rejected me!?", then He says "It is finished," and he dies. And He did it all for you. And me too.
Now Satan is throwing a party, the battle is over, he's got it in the bag now, Jesus is dead!
A couple days later, the stone blocking the tomb is rolled away, Jesus folds the graveclothes up all nice and neat, and then He walks out of the tomb and looks at Satan and says "Is that all you got?"
That's my faith. That's my religion. It's not a list of dos and don'ts, it's a personal relationship with the only God who was big enough to conquer death and my shortcomings; the God who forgives - the God who died for me and by whom I am able to be dead to the world and through Him have life.
The world tells you things like going to church religiously (no pun intended) and praying, caring for others, believing in God and trusting Him to lead my life according to His will, and standing up for what I believe without becoming an obstacle for someone else by arguing, are all ways that I am in bondage because of my faith. But surely today, I am telling you the truth when I say that I do not do these things to buy my way into Heaven, and I am in no prison. On the contrary, in Him I have my freedom from the things of this world that would tempt me to separate myself from God: sexual immorality, vulgarity, lust, lying, violence, getting angry and saying things I don't mean, cheating, any other number of things the rest of the world doesn't even usually give much of a second thought to. The things that separate us from God are what we call sin, that's what it means. Any of you ever had a question of what defines a sin, then there's your answer. If something separates you from God and His will, then it's a sin. And because God is perfect, He can't hang out with sin.
So comin down to earth as one of us, to take our places, was the only way He could keep His own standards of perfection that He demands of us (ie, the wages of sin are death) was to take our places.
But God is bigger than death, and that's why He rose again and why Easter is not just for kids or "devout Christians", it's for everyone. It's victory day.
I celebrate my renewal, my redemption from myself that I am ashamed of, that even though I'm no saint He walks and talks with me everyday, and because He wore my clothes of shame and guilt for all the things I've done, I can wear His coat of righteousness and Holiness. God's love is for everyone, not just the good kids, not just the bad kids, not just the fat kids or kids who climb on rocks. Everybody. All you have to do is come to Him and you don't even have to use pretty words or include "Thee's and Thou's" or even "Thy's", just say in your own words, however you say them or in whatever language you speak or think comfortably:
Dear God, I know I'm not perfect, none of us are. I know the only way I'm going to be whole and pure again is something I can't do on my own. I don't want to live this life where I feel ashamed of what I am, unsure and uncertain about just about everything. Lord please, I need you in my life, to help close the gap between my shortcomings and your perfection. Come into my life Lord, and I'll let you take the wheel. Thank you Father for taking my place, for wiping my slate clean, and I ask that for the rest of my days my eyes stay on you. Amen. (Or you can even say "bye", God doesn't mind, it's like I said before, you don't need fancy words, God wants you to be personal with Him.)
Anyway, that's my
Matthew 28:19-20 "Therefore go and make disciples of ALL nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." - Holy Bible, NIV
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Right... I'll note that you didn't bother to quote what I said about abuse. The fact is, you'd have jumped off a bridge because of fear of beatings, not because you were being monitored. Let's talk about the real issue here and not cloud it with spillover from other areas. A child who's parents don't abuse him has wou;dn't be driven to suicide by constant monitoring. Likewise, a child that can be trusted not to shoot heroin (Heroin! For fuck's sake, is that *ever* okay?) doesn't need constant monitoring.
Whatever happened to JonKatz?
afaik, the plural appears even in hebrew version of the Bible (which is as original as it gets, isn't it ?)
btw: Maybe someone could give me a little bible-lesson ? Where in the Bible does it say that the antichrist has a Mark on his head ? I thought, the one with the "T" on his forehead was Kain... What does that stand for, anyway ?
I have discovered a truly remarkable sig which this 120 chars is too small to contain.
I wasn't aware that it was in hebrew. I should go back and see if he speaks before he makes an atmosphere, because that would be funny :)
BTW, I'm 90% sure that it says that the antichrist has 666 writen on his forhead in revelations. I used to be X-tian, but there are only so many contradictions that you can tolerate. It's not all that devine. Perfect beings don't contradict themselves.
Karma Clown