Slashdot Mirror
Mandrake Clarifies its Future
fabiolrs writes "Mandrake Linux has an article in response to the message they sent on march 11th. They claim that because of user help they are "cash-flow positive"! That is great news since Linux community is now sure it will continue using one of the nicest distros available!"
I love Mandrake. It's ease of use, and painless install are the only reasons that I have been able to convert my girlfriend, her roomate, and one of her college suitemates to Linux. It's config tools are nice and easy to understand. And it comes bundled with software that people actually want. It was also my first distro. But now I'm on to Debian. Ahh...memories. Long live Drake!
Great news anyway though, true Linux hackers may never install Mandrake, they'll have their own build. But a friendly install, etc (Mandrake is good on this point) has to cost time and effort from hackers who would perhaps rather be doing something else.
Still, I won't be in Mandrake club :)
Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
It's about time some more compition is ariving on the scene. The more Distros that get this kind of exposure, the larger market penetration for Linux. This is good news.
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)
So, I wonder what they will do to make sure that they are 'cash-flow positive' from now on? Or will the always be relying on 'user contributions'?
Personally, I'd rather give money to RedHat (or maybe SuSe). They seem to be working hard to get Linux accepted in business. Mandrake is very desktop focused, and that is probably the weakest area to forge a business model.. (IMHO)
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
While I think the whole business about the 'Star Office-for-silver-members' was a complete FUBAR on MandrakeSoft's part, it looks like raising revenue by offering membership in the Mandrake Club could actually work for them. Many OSS companies have gone down the tubes by basing their business model on selling services and tech support. If Mandrake doesn't make it, another user-friendly GNU/Linux distro will take up the slack.
I am glad for mandrake, and quite amazed at the amount of kindness shown by people online... (i.e. sending in money)
However, it is somewhat disheartening that their software has to be supported by donations. Sympathetic users just don't make a good substitute for a sound business plan.
Anyways, I hope they keep up the good work. (and maybe develop a better way to make $$) They're not my distro of choice, but they are quite good.
I see Mandrake/MandrakeSoft as today's real innovators in the Free Sofware world. First they totally changed the approach of Linux distributions makers by giving more importance to ease of use for instance. Secondly, they have a business approach which is *very* innovative. I can feel something about Mandrake, I don't know exactly what, which looks like the best approach around here to conciliate business and Free Software while always keeping 100% compatibility with Free Software.
:-)
The Mandrake Club is a great way to monetize a user base as large as Mandrake users. It provides many advantages such as StarOffice 6.0 (final version!) which has not even been released just because Sun seemed to believe in this club and wanted to give it a boost... The Club is also a great "tool" for users to ensure that MandrakeSoft will keep on delivering great products such as the excellent Mandrake 8.2 (which I use mostly on servers, but which is so nice as well to replease Windows on my laptop!).
Great project, great company - you've got my support guys!!
I used Mandrake at first and loved their release of 6.2. However, as they progressed past 6.2, they kept sticking in beta software. They ended up fixing previous bugs by upgrading the software but would introduce new bugs by placing in new betas that would lock up/crash my system. Therefore, I've moved to red hat. If they'd stop sticking in some many buggy packages I might actually go back. This might be the problem of their money troubles.
"That is great news since Linux community is now sure it will continue using one of the nicest distros available!"
I agree that the Mandrake installer is nice, but I think when you compare installed systems instead of installers, you just can't get any easier or better than Debian.
Keeping your system current takes only two commands (apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade). If you need a graphical apt tool, then I would suggest Synaptic.
Bashing the idea of a club:
It's a much more palatable approach to amking a few bucks on the software, by offering enhanced features. One seems to get a fully functioal OS without ever joining the Club.
And it offers different levels, for most any budget. And if you mo longer find it useful, you can quit.
It's a lot better than charging hundreds up front for the OS.
If I weren't nailed to the penis, I'd be pushing up the daisies!
I have Mandrake on my machine, and I even joined their club in order to support them. But I would like to upgrade my machine and I don't have DSL so I would like to buy a boxed set. But it looks like Fry's (big chain out here in California) has stopped carrying it (and they have not abandoned Linux, they still have RedHat and SUSE). I could shop around, but the fact that they have disappeared from the store I bought it from is alarming.
The linked article mentions that selling Mandrake company shares directly to users isn't feasible for a couple of reasons, but if Mandrake hypothetically got a wild hair and decided to do an offering in the U.S. what kind of hoops would they have to jump through setting it up?
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
I can't exactly see how contributions are going to carry the company sustainably. It's a great distro, but the fact that you have to rely on the kindness of others to keep going is shaky at best.
Good luck to 'em...
No man is an island, but Gary is a city in Indiana.
Although this is good news, does this not curb the "free" aspect? i.e look at this wonderful free OS, but we cant keep it going unless the users pay for it.. I know, at least the payments are done out of "love" for the OS and not simply forced upon a user, but still, I find it kind of funny and ironic. For all the hate that goes towards marketing people etc etc, I think they are needed to sell Linux to the main stream, no matter how good a coder you are, or how good the product is, Geeks dont make good sales people. No matter if it costs money or not, you still have to sell the idea of Linux.
Laptop Reviews
No one can deny that Mandrake is one of, if not the most, easiest to install/use distros around. Myself, I dont like the bloat. However, any method that can make the Linux/Open Source community grow by making it easier for new people to come aboard is worth supporting. Kudos to Mandrake for pulling it out...
why can't you purchase it online or have someone else w/broadband DL and burn it for you?
It seems like Microsoft is going to have to play nice now. They were making all this noise about how Linux would never make money (as if there were a Linux Corp. or something), and is therefore evil and not to be trusted.
So since we have mini Linux Corp. companies running around with positive cashflow, does this mean the Linux is less evil? Of course if Microsoft does recognize this, it can only mean MS Bob for Linux.
As in: I sent them a money order for $120, UPS says it was delivered on March 27th, and I haven't heard from them, yet.
Fry's lowbids all their inventory. Mandrake probably could not take the hit. I remember someone working there telling me that a serial cable they bought for 1.50 retailed for 20.00 and other such heinous crap.
An Education is the Font of All Liberty
I shudder at the thought of having to buy software at Fry's... Aren't there other computer stores in Cali?
Whoever stated that signature sizes should be limited to one hundred and twenty characters can just go ahead and kiss my
As a mandrake club member, I think there would be twice as many members if they had a members-only FTP mirror. What good is a club membership if you have to wait with the non-members for the new releases? It's like joining a private a golf club and finding out that it is open to the public for less than what the members pay.
I don't read ACs: If a post isn't worth so much as a nom de plume to its author then I wont bother either.
No, .iso' about 3 or 4 weeks before they are available in the stores (and the www.mandrakestore.com orders are "pre-orders"). If you want it quick, and want mdk to get some cash. Join the club or make a donation and go to www.cheapbytes.com to get the cds from them.
The boxed sets are not out yet. For some reaason, MDK always releases the
Well every Best Buy has mandrake boxes, plus a few other distros, and they are a nationwide chain.
I noticed that boxed sets of Mandrake disappeared from Fry's a couple of weeks ago. I think Fry's is just clearing out their inventory of 8.1 in anticipation of 8.2 hitting the stores.
Here's a quote from a prior post:
If Mandrake doesn't make it, another user-friendly GNU/Linux distro will take up the slack.
No offense to anyone, but is this the type of attitude we're supposed to have in the opensource community? Is this the best we can do? Just to have a revolving door, of when they don't make it, someone else will do it, until they fall too... repeat.
Are you that cheap?
The Open Source community should be about sharing code, sharing to make better, sharing to contribute, sharing to learn from... But not sharing to mooch off of.
I say go ahead and mooch at first. Learn about the product, etc... but if you like it, then support it. I know most MDK users are fanatics. I am one. I also know redhat users are fanatics, I am also one.
I support both buy purchasing future releases off of the web sites. I know the iso's are there... But I choose to support the distro's so they'll be there in the future with a BETTER product.
MDK needed help so they had to ask for money, yet people mock them for it.
MDK is not making star office 6.0 free since sun is not making it free, and people mock them.
Are you a linux user or not?
Are you going to support the cause? Or just talk about it?
www.slightlycrewed.com - Because aren't we all?
Consider the plight of Loki Games and Ezeal. If they would have stepped forward and asked everyone in the Linux community for a little extra help they may have not gone under. If nothing else quietly slipping into the night is not the way to go.
There is a warning though: although this is a great way to get people invovled and save some worth while endevors it does not fix broken management. The danger is that even with extra cash broken management will still make bad decision and may end up using this help as a crutch.
As I type this message from my PC running Mandrake 8.1, I am happy!
Good news all around!
I'm a Red Hat user since 5.1. Red Hat was my first, and for the most part only, experience I've have with Linux.
At the risk of being labeled a troll, I have a genuine question: If I were to try out a new distro with my next build, what are my advantages in switching to Mandrake? How many people feel Mandrake is an upgrade? I'm interested in desktop use for the most part. I want maximum compatability, and Mardrake has a Red Hat legacy.
I also am aware that Mandrake is regarded by many as a "newbie" distro, and I am interested in progressing in my knowledge. What is a good "power distro" that features the advantages of Red Hat or Mandrake's distros?
Best Buy where I live has it. Don't they have Best Buy in California?
Mandrake wants a method to gain recurring revenue. They don't want to raise money through selling stocks since it doesn't solve their long term money needs. What they're really doing is easing into a subscription model. It's voluntary but it's basically a subscription.
It's very interesting. It's on their corporate website only:
s letter/april2002?wslang=en
---
(...)
On a more global side, it seems important to note that we have been working to correct the difficult situation in which we found ourselves, following the strategic errors of the previous management team. The actions we have been carrying out have been in several areas:
1. Refocusing the company around our original business, and what we are best at. It seemed necessary that we return to our original activity at MandrakeSoft: implementing Mandrake Linux, and offering value-added products and services around this solution.
2. Lowering costs. This was necessary to bring us closer to financial stability, and took the form of removing unnessary expenses and reducing the head count. MandrakeSoft has gone from over 150 employees at the start of 2001 to less than 100 now.
3. Increasing revenue and margins. This is done by developing new sources of revenue, such as OEM sales, e-commerce, services, online subscription services such as the Club, and increasing our margin on traditional product lines.
January-March 2002 financial figures, which will show the results of this strategy, will be published shortly.
---
http://www.mandrakesoft.com/company/investors/new
Since they are a French company, they should sell rifles. Why? Brcause French guns are never fired and only dropped once!
Maybe they should strongarm PC makers into paying them $20 for each PC shipped, whether or not Mandrake is on that PC. That'd be a much better 'model' to have.
They can call it a 'club' or 'group' or whatever, but honestly, I can't see any other way for companies in their market to make money focusing just on a distribution. If they focused on training/consulting as well, that'd be a different story, and may be something they *should* do. But they're not doing it. They want to focus on making a distribution.
So how else do you make money from free software? You simply ask for it. In return, they give certain 'niceties' to people who pay. I don't think it's 'kindness' that motivates people - they want to support a product they like.
creation science book
The only problem with their club is that you must pay for an entire year at a time. The least you can pay is $60.... Now, I'm not too rich at all, but I really wouldn't mind paying $5 a month even if it was autobilled. I'd even pay $6 a month - the extra buck to cover extra credit card fees that they'd have.
Bottom line: I can afford $5 /mo but not $60 /year
Comment removed based on user account deletion
that means that they're absolutely certain they need cash-flow
perlgolf: the only place where shorter is better
How long will they remain cashflow-positive though? Will more user-charity be needed in the future?
8.2 has been even a bigger pain in the ass for me. The update crashed during package installation forcing me to reinstall. Audio CD playback doesn't work, on a basic ATAPI drive. (Yes, sound does work.) Finally, when I decided to try Tuxracer, it or the dependant packages that came with it hosed X.
Yes, given time I could fix this stuff but I'm not going to. I'm downloading Skipjack ISOs instead and I'll go back to Red Hat if that works out.
(Once again, I gave Debian a try with no luck. I realize _someone_ gets it installed, but we're talking about a pretty vanilla system here - year and a half old Athlon/VIA/NVIDIA. I mean, I have code in that distro -- I should be able to install the damn thing.)
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Personally, I'd rather give money to RedHat (or maybe SuSe). They seem to be working hard to get Linux accepted in business. Mandrake is very desktop focused, and that is probably the weakest area to forge a business model.. (IMHO)
I think it's EXTREMELY import for the future of desktop computing to have a strong desktop/workstation Linux distro. If for nothing else, this should provide the average desktop user with an actual choice over Windows. I haven't tried SuSE, but Mandrake seems to be the most user-friendly Linux distro that actually has a chance of gaining converts from Windows who are just normal desktop users. Without Mandrake, I think the rate of new Linux Windows converts would drop by almost a half.
Also, there are many businesses that need a good client-side development platform. For instance, Microcell, a Montreal-based cellular service provider, has Mandrake installed on all its development machines, especially for its Java developers. Any business that wants to develop software in a cross-platform environment would find such a distro to be extremely useful.
I, for one, prefer to develop in Linux, because of the rich command-line tools and environment, as well as the greater control over configuration files and settings. Windows is a poor platform for doing any command-line processing, even with cygwin. However, I also need a rich, user-friendly desktop environment with GUI configuration tools, should I require them. Mandrake, despite being somewhat bloated, comes with all these tools pre-configured and ready-to-use right out of the box. AFAIK, RedHat and other distros require quite a bit of initial configuration to get everything running just right.
I actually use Slackware at home, but that's because I can afford to play around with it. When I'm developing at work, I need something that will pretty much run out of the box, without being Windows. Mandrake is the distro I would use at work, were I not in a M$ environment (SourceSafe, Exchange Email Server, MCSE Network Admin) like I am now.
This space left intentionally blank.
I know this is a little, well, maybe a fair bit offtopic, but I was wondering if someone could explain the difference between SuSe and Mandrake to me.
I'm looking to reinstall linux but I don't want to go through the painful set up of getting everything working. I had that with Debian. Even though I thought Debian was the best thing in the world once it was set up, it was a pain to set up.
I guess I'm looking for a best of both worlds type thing. Installing comparable to says Windows for ease of install, and setup maintenance like in Debian.
Which would be my best bet?
I hope I don't start a flame war, but thanks!
--- I used to moderate, then I read the -1 articles and decided having to filter through them was not worth it.
w00t
:-)
SylentBobb
I blew away RH 7.2 and installed Mandrake's newest release. So far, it appears excellent. The install was VERY easy, and they've done a good job w/ the rpm packaging system. While I may never pay for linux in my life, they'd get the first dollars out of my pocket!
Keep up the good work Mandrake!
...now if I can just get the sound working...:D
... that based on user attitudes/comments Mandrake seems to be the "macintosh" of the Linux world?
(intended as humor)
~ now you know
While experts can find their way around existing distros, mere mortals will rightly conclude that XP or OS X is a better choice for them simply because it doesn't put up barriers at every stage. Even little things as more task orientation, hiding advanced settings in secondary dialogs and removal of needlessly jargon filled alerts can do much to simplify a UI.
CompUSA carries Mandrake, as well as RedHat and SuSE. At one point I saw Mandrake (7.2, iirc) in Walmart, but the last time I looked I couldn't find it..
Mandrake pushed the User-Club as a short-term solution to being mismanaged last year. Currently they are under much better management, and now that they're no longer in the red I believe they're clear of immediate danger.
OK, Mandrake isn't a non-profit, but most everyone who was considering joining will just continue leeching for free since the impression is now that Mandrake doesn't need subscriptions anymore.
Mandrakes new business model is a very important step for Free Software. Every software company in this space has been struggling to find a model that will work to support the culture and ideology that underpins this movement.
Many companies have abandoned their roots based on certain philosophical principles only to say "well...we're grown up now so we have to be capitalists..." causing incredible divisions in their internal corporate culture. As soon as they "grow up" they forget what has driven their success - the human interest in sharing.
Mandrake has successfully found a model based upon the notion of sharing. They have extended the concept of giving to enable the users who have the financial resources to give with a way to do it. No longer are poeple restricted to only giving back code or free support. Those users who have a little money (or more) can share it freely with the great people in the Mandrake community who are sharing their code with the commons.
If anyone doesn't think this fits "capitalism"...well maybe capitalism in cyberspace needs an adjustment. Finally, an innovative business model which doesn't destroy the Free Software culture!
I love the fact that Mandrake has worked hard to improve usability, and that their install is easier than the one for Windows ME. I've used 7.2, 8.0, and I'm currently using 8.1.
It wasn't until recently that I found out that most distros don't require a reformat to have a successful upgrade, and that usually you don't have to worry about most packages not working correctly out of the box like Mandrake's.
Even when I work hard to fix Mandrake's problems, there are a lot of packages that haven't worked. I have yet to get one PCI card to install using harddrake, and urpmi stopped working about four months ago, and no amount of work has made it work again. Also, in the latest installment, for some reason, neither Kudzu nor sndconfig work as well as they have in the past.
What do I mean by too Windowsish? Too buggy! They spend so much time making it look nice, and little time on ensuring that everything works as it should (just like Windows does). I think they're doing it so that they can seem to be the flashiest - flashy like Windows. "Does the distro you're trying to use have the latest, greatest version of product X? Mandrake does."
I'm sick of Mandrake and all its crap. They've made a convert out of me - a convert to another distro.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
A few years back I asked some vocal pro-GPL friends: "How are they going to make any money by putting months of hard work as a free download on their FTP?"
Several discussions, books and lectures later, my question still stands.
From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) :
Mandrake \Man"drake\, n. [AS. mandragora, L. mandragoras, fr.
Gr. ?: cf. F. mandragore.]
1. (Bot.) A low plant ({Mandragora officinarum) of the
Nightshade family, having a fleshy root, often forked, and
supposed to resemble a man. It was therefore supposed to
have animal life, and to cry out when pulled up. All parts
of the plant are strongly narcotic. It is found in the
Mediterranean region.
And shrieks like mandrakes, torn out of the earth,
That living mortals, hearing them, run mad. --Shak.
Note: The mandrake of Scripture was perhaps the same plant,
but proof is wanting.
I like the 'often forked' line, as I'm planning my own.
put the what in the where?
There are tons of other stores you could check out other than Fry's. There are Best Buys, CompUSA, and numerous other big computer stores around that fit the bill. I kinda like MicroCenter over in AMD Mercado (Santa Clara) though I don't know if they have Mandrake (Suse and Red Hat).
I forget...are we at war with Eurasia or East Asia?
I installed 8.2 and found it to have serious problems with X and KDE 2.2. I wiped the disk and installed RedHat 7.2, and had absolutely none of the problems I had with Mandrake 8.2 (or any problems so far).
...thanks to bandwidth costs from being slashdotted, they'll be cashflow negative again!
Is that it's the easiest to install of the lot. A little background: I just started futzing with Linux recently. I've done 3 linux installs. Two were nightmares that never actually technically ended, and one was flawless, simple, and took under 30 minutes.
The one that went off without a hitch on the first try? Mandrake. It detected all of my crappy second-hand non-standard Gateway hardware no sweat, suggested sizes for partitions and went off on its merry way. 27 minutes later it was rebooted and prompting me for my login and password...
Damn, if I had known Mandrake was so easy I would've used it the first time...
Who did what now?
I think mandrake sucks. they throw to much crap (and I mean that in terms of matureity of software)into their distro, and thier URPMI utility sucks. the best thing they provided for the comunity was the autodetection installer. other than that, their drake tools are almost a waist of time and the Drake icons are fugly.
Debian is much better IMHO at all of these points, and thier woody installer is easy for some one who has used Linux for about 6 months. 3.1 will have a new installer that autodetects and after that, I think debian will take eat up mandrakes market, good thing Suse has moved towards servers.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Doesn't anyone see what's wrong with this?
The company is "cash flow positive" because people are making cash donations to it? This isn't sustainable. The "dot com" companies tried to live this way -- the only difference was that the money was coming from venture capitalists instead of consumers. Once the VC went away, they all went bankrupt very quickly.
Sorry folks, but the only way to stay in the black is to consistently keep your revenues higher than your expenses. A one-time cash infusion in tough times is nice, but you can't count on it to continue indefinitely.
Tired of FB/Google censorship? Visit UNCENSORED!
A linux-company has positive cash-flow thanks to begging, it's that kind of pathetic?
Why not do what has to be done sooner or later, develop a working business-model!
What I like most about Mandrake is that they seem to adopt new components quickly. I was a Red Hat guy until Mandrake began supporting ReiserFS out of the box, so I switched. That was Mandrake 8.0 I think (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong). And then I used Mandrake 8.1 at work for a Samba and CVS server with XFS as the filesystem. You can't do that with Red Hat.
So in three weeks they turned into a "cash-flow positive" company. But will this last? Will people continue their subscriptions?
You can't project too far into the future based on three weeks of a new business model.
"a quote" -me
Wouldn't it make more sense for Mandrake to become a non-profit? Employees would still get paid, they would have tax benefits, and people who donate money would be guaranteed that their money goes into making a better distribution.
That is great news since Linux community is now sure it will continue using one of the nicest distros available!"
:)
YEah, SLACKWARE!
Personally, I think the gift economy will ultimately outcompete most other business plans for selling bits. We ain't seen nothin yet.
Does this strike anyone else as unprofessional? For a company like Mandrake to be referring to competitors in such a light really doesn't seem very mature to me. Imagine an IT executive contemplating a move to Linux, and seeing that. I'd rather see them simply call it 'Windows' and devote another page to the Windows vs. Linux debate. Bad mouthing competition at every opprotunity reeks of poor sportsmanship.
I'm puzzled... Mandrake are saying that it's an innovative idea to offer more stuff in return for more money.
Before you get the troll stick out, go and read their statement. That's exactly what they say. That people were buying the box set (instead of downloading) just to give them funds, and this is a better method than that "charity purchase" because it gives more benefits to the purchaser.
You ever see that Dilbert strip where Dogbert is explaining the basics of economics to a .com startup?
Sounds to me like Mandrake has just discovered the basics. Sell stuff. Offer more stuff the more money you pay. Tell your customers that they're partners, because that way they're more inclined to pay (in this case, it's actually true, but the point it that it's still standard marketing spin, and business types are comforted by familiar mantras).
Hurrah for Mandrake. I've been thinking for a while now that we could do with fewer commercial Linux distros, and better concentration of funds. I'm a SuSE user (and purchaser), but really, I don't mind who gets the money, as long as we get a few sustainable businesses out of it that we can all donate to/buy from - and get our employers to buy from - with a degree of confidence that they'll still be there next year to offer support.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
One of the most amazing things behind Free Software and Open Source is that anyone who can program can potentially contribute to the project. Many programmers donate their time and expertise to producing Free Software. But there are many people like myself who aren't programmers, but who also want to contribute. Mandrake Club provides a method for me to contribute, and I give them some money much as I would give them my code if I were a programmer. I hope that my contribution will keep Mandrake alive so that not only I, but many others can benefit from their work.
As a final note, I just installed Mandrake 8.2 this weekend. It's by far the slickest Linux distro I've tried. It's not only a great desktop, but it has all the power of linux underneath and therefore makes a great server as well.
Check out AbiWord.
not yet a member. I'm over my credit limit :) but soon I will be. Mandrake jsut seems to be what this whole thing is about. If you like something you support it. thats it. we've been complaining about getting music on a more reasonable system usch as the honor system. Yet when a software company that does good creates an honor sytem club type thing we crap on it. I hope it is a huge success. As far as I'm concerned if I join the Mandrake Club I'm not a member but more a patron of software. I can make suggestions to the developers and they implement them and I show my appreciation by paying a certain amount to continue that work.
-
Saturday night, I was a friend's house trying to get a Sound Blaster soundcard to work on XP. I failed. It also took 2 tries to get the printer to work.
OS X, everything worked right off the bat. When I bought a printer, it worked. No problem.
I still use Mandrake 7.2. It recognized everything. Mandrake 7.2 was on 3 boxes that I personally pieced together. The XP box was a box my friend just bought from Dell.
So let's reword this. OS X or Mandrake 7.2 is a better choice for mere mortals simply because it doesn't put up barriers at every stage. Until Microsoft gets their act together with their difficult to use UI, I don't see why desktop users would go with XP over an easy to use US like what OS X or Mandrake 7.2 have.
I think the business model should be the same one that M$ sees in MSIE. That is, you don't make the money off the browser, you make it off the users. Now I am not in favor of Mandrake 8.3 including multiple popups requesting that you sign up for MandrakePassport or something, but if you have a hundred million boxen with a default homepage of "ShopMandrake.com" you will probably make a few bucks.
Remember there are still a few Billion people in the world who don't have a computer or an internet connection yet, so there is plenty of opportunity to emulate the M$ business model in MSIE.
Send lawyers, guns, and money. Dad, get me out of this.
Isn't Linux supposed to be a speedy & stable operating system? I don't think Mandrake thinks so. It loads so many things on startup its terrible. Yes I know it is possible to configure the boxen not to start all of those services, but I would rather start from a ground up approach.... give the user more control of what services are started via a GUI during the install....
;). Imagine that, a lazy linux user. I had rather have something like regedit/sysedit that allows me to configure what goes at boot time. I have seen a few programs that do such things (or try to do so) but all of them have been harder to use than either regedit/sysedit etc....
;).
I am a long time linux user, since early 1995, I am quite capable of editing startup scripts, etc... its just that I am lazy
Things I believe linux needs
[1] MSOffice (sorry fellas, all the office suites I have tried are good, but aren't as good)
[2] Photoshop (its still better than gimp, even though gimp is good dont get me wrong)
[3] Games (for the avg home user0
[4] Ability to play all media files that windows can (easily)
[5] Better driver support (commercial)
If linux had these 5 things I could see quite a few more people converting. My roommate loves my desktop, enlightenment over 2 19" monitors and a 1 21" monitor... thinks it is snazzy. He would like to switch, but doesn't want to because Linux does not have nearly as many games.... or KaZaA
There's also "American Mandrake", commonly called the mayapple.
I sometimes tried keeping a few of the roots, bruised, on a shelf in my closet, when i was having trouble sleeping. The fumes brought on deep, but often wierd, sleep.
Thank you, thank you. And thank you for introducing me.
Slashdot is for goat faggots. That is all.
I still can't play Shockwave files with Mandrake installed "out of the box"
I still have to resort to the command line when installing apps like OpenOffice
I still have to resort to using LinNeighbourhood as Mandrake won't see my user account exported from a Linux box via Samba
CTRL+C and CTRL+V still doesn't work flawlessly between applications from different Desktop Environments (i.e. KDE and Gnome)
I still have to manually configure mime types in Evolution to make it use Galeon instead of Mozilla
I still have to manually configure Mozilla setup a minimum font size so that I don't get those stupid fonts that are so small that they are unreadable
I still have to re-configure mime types so that when I click an m3u (MP3 playlist) in Galeon, it uses xmms
And of course I still can't edit Microsoft Word documents with 100% accuracy, despite all the crowing that goes on about OpenOffice, StarOffice, KDE Office and the others
And so the list goes on.
In terms of useability, Mandrake is still a VERY long way behind Windows. It is still a collection of disjointed applications and utilities that just don't work together (IMHO). Mandrake (and hence most Linux desktops) lack the cohesion that makes Windows still the fore-runner in desktop computing.
In terms of Mandrake financial standing and business plans, I chuckle to myself. I've read posts where people berate other people for not spending the money to buy Mandrake.
My take is that if Mandrake want to offer their basic product for free, then I'll download it, thankyouverymuch. Money is tight for me, so buying their distro is not an option. I read in another post that Linux distributions are like revolving doors. If you wait long enough, another one will come along very shortly.
I find that to be true; I shouldn't have to feel guilty about not paying for a distribution. If I feel that my current distro is no longer what I need or up to my standards, then I can try another. Besides, playing around with different distros is great fun and interesting.
I'm still not convinced that Mandrake has a practical business plan that will allow them to maintain profitability. If a non-Linux (and non-software) company posted on it's website that it required financial help from the public, then it would be laughed out of the market, and that's just by it's investors! I think that by being "a charity, so to speak", Mandrake is just dragging down the view that Linux can be profitable. I almost feel sorry for them.
But that's just my opinion. Feel free to ignore as you see fit.
How about an iso of the source downloadable for free, but a fee of a few dollars / pounds / whatever to download the compiled distro? I'd be happy to pay $5 to download the latest version.
Mandrake isn't out of the woods yet. The boost of support has made them temporarily cash flow positive but as new club memberships drop off and expenses remain constant they'll be in the red again.
.15% of users to become club members.
They need about 55,000 members paying an average of $85.00 per year to cover expenses. They feel that this goal is reachable based on their estimates of the number of Linux users. By their estimates they would only need
If you like Mandrake and want it to survive please help out. If you haven't become a member yet do so. The cost is less than two lattés per month. If you are already a member and know Mandrake users who are not then try to convince them that it is in their own best interests to voluntarily support companies who support the Linux community.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
No, not whoring it, it's just that the karma is at 200 but the cap is at 50, this means that I cannot possibly gain karma, just lose it. Therefore whenever I post anything that I suspect might get modded down I do it as AC (anonymously.) This keeps the karma sky-high while still allowing me to beat logged in posters to FP. I have done this three times or so now, quite a speedy bastard I am. At any rate you might want to try it, it is fun.
How the fuck is this flamebait?
KMFDM sucks.
But I dont, so why should i give my money to Suse? or Redhat?
Mandrake is for people who dont run a business, the working class OS.
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
I would say it's highly likely that Fry's is waiting for the new release having sold all of their 8.1 boxed sets. As someone else mentioned above me, ever heard of Best Buy? Or perhaps WalMart?
Which makes millions of dollars so you can use AOL 7.0
You see, a service which asks the common man to pay, is a donation
A service which asks big companies to pay is business
Redhat is a business, Mandrake is a donation
wheres the logic they both do the same thing!
Mandrake Club, Up2date
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
Yea, I had that problem with Win2K. Here's how I solved it:
:-)
I installed Linux
Oh yea, by the way, you didn't perhaps notice that this was a Mandrake Linux discussion and not a Win2K helpdesk did you?
"Bill:I dont see how Linux can ever be successful, its FREE!"
"Steve: Yes I know its free, they assume every programmer will contribute their time and code! Why would anyone contribute to something which cant make then any moneY?!"
"Bill: Lets not worry about linux, it has no chance, how about we focus on destroying apple."
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
When you buy the os, a DONATION is automatically given to IE.
When you join the microsoft clu er MSN, you also donate to IE!
If you use Linux, please help development of Autopac
This is the result of a culture that thrives on everything being free. You begin to expect everything your distro, office suite, games, etc to be free. I'm always surprised when people get up in arms when users clamor for everything being free. That is the linux culture and once people get used to it, they start to question why anything costs money. Your also forgoting the basic fact the humans are cheap by nature. Moral/feel good arguments aside "Why pay for something when you can get if for free?"
More directly on point, yes people would rather wait for another distro/office suite then compromise and pay. They know that someone will either 1)fork or 2) create a free competitor. This has been happening for years now.
Do you really think the ratio for example of Open Office v Star Office users is going to be anything but 10,000 to 1? Seriously, You can't tell me that when you need something, you don't look for a free version first?
As far as you buying the product, good for you, but the other 90% of linux users will continue to download Iso's or borrow their friends copy.
why can't you purchase it online or have someone else w/broadband DL and burn it for you?
You ask that because you probably don't know Fry's. It's sort of a legend among the geeks/hackers (mainly in Northern California). You could even find the Agenda VR3 there a few months ago (not sure if they still have it though).
People used to joke that if you are a girl in the Silicon Valley, you should hang in a Fry's store if you are looking for a date.
www.gentoo.org
How gullible are leenuks osers? Do you
really believe the world needs yet another
losing leenuks distribution? If you believe
Mandrake's executive team's story, I'd like
to sell you some HP stock.
Here at Gael's Boutique we sell the world's finest flowers. But the flower market has been a bit soft lately. So we held a bake sale. Dear customer, we want to thank you. Because you donated to our bake sale, we are proud to say that our flower shop has finally made a profit.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
since I had the same experience with Red Hat and mandrake.
I prefer the stability of Suse over both of the above.
Thats exactly the potential of the open-source movement, you can have distros for very specifical users. My favorite distro is Slackware, but I woludnt use it if I needed an out-of-the-box server; Id rather use Caldera. The freedom to choose is the big deal of the Linux distros.
8.2 wont install with the 2.4(or what ever standard kernal), just infite loops while initalizing. I have to run the 2.22 (not mentioned anywhere, just lucky to find it. I have the same thing on Redhat 7.1, so there must be a huge bug in 2.4) and can't even get my SoundBlaster 64 run, even after I have tested in sndconfig and had it work. They sould have Soundblaster support instantly, as it is about the most standard equipment in a compter. And nothing like having your network card die right after it intializes, lights off and not responding. Thats why Linux is not killing Microsoft. Oh yah, and the usb support does not initalize till after the things installed, which would make it real fun to install it, using a joystick, if your soundcard actually worked. If everything worked, then I could see them making money.
Mass bugtesting?
mp3: l33t term for empty.
When it's news that a company is cash positive.
Sigh.
That's it, go on, mod this down. But give it a thought, huh?
You were expecting a sig?
Maybe if the woman had low self esteem!
That is a pure lie. I handle all transactions on the Mandrakestore, and we answer *all* requests.
Before we take the credit card, we log the transaction into an SQL database. Then it's passed to the bank, where they enter their credit card number. The bank keeps the transaction into their database. Then, the bank returns the data to us (without the card number), we log it again, and we send an e-mail to the customer with their receipt number, and a copy to me, stored on an offline server.
We can't possibly lose the information, unless the customer entered a bunch of "asajkd" and "adasdkj" into the fields, didn't print his invoice, and his e-mail bounced, and even then, we can ask the bank to find the info if the customer used a valid credit card number.
I'm e-mailing the guy right now.
Didn't Harley Davidson do something like this when they parted ways with AMF? They started some sort of users club. I know I've read about this before, but can't find the reference to it right now. It seems to have worked quite well for them. As I remember they got more members than there were Harley owners at the time.
-Jon
In short, yes. Contrary to popular misconception, OSS is not all about selfless give-aways. Yes, it is some of that, but it ultimately prospers because of self-interest. Many people, both for and against open source, seem to assume that open source can only survive if it is based on the closed-source model: a company produces software and makes money selling it. This assumption is used as evidence that OSS can't survive in the market place. The reality is more complex and more interesting: it is more efficient and profitable for software consumers, from single users to big corporations, to band together to produce software than it is to lock themselves into a single vendor.
I'm sorry about Mandrake's troubles, but that's how Capitalism works: if a company don't serve a need that the market is willing to pay for, then the company doesn't survive. In the long run this makes for a more prosperous society than any amount propping up can hope to achieve. No law of nature promised Mandrake that producing yet another distro (as good as it may be) was a solid business model.
Miko O'Sullivan
I think this is great news. I personally use slack but use mand on my server upstairs (serving eight students , including me, various services.) I was happy to make a donation to this great company and I wish them the best of luck.
Well, this model has shown that it works for at least one other industry: public radio. Out here in Houston, KPFT has been running on listener contributions since it opened it's doors nearly thirty years ago. If a local radio station can survive like this, why not a global software company.
People love reciprocity. When given a gift, most people like to return the favor. In this case, in the form of money.
(Score: -1, Stupid)
I did just such a focus group, to find the best desktop package for a company overhauling their whole IT approach. We compared Mandrake and Redhat with Windows, Mac OS9, and OSX. As a long time Mandrake user, the results were no surprise to me- people familiar with Windows or Mac were initially more productive on those, but Mandrake was about as easy to use and adapt to as a Mac for Windows users, or Windows for Mac users. So really, they're all about the same. System administration tasks on Mandrake were actually easier than Windows, for Windows and Mac users!
Personally, I find Mandrake/KDE is a little bit ahead of Win2K, usability-wise, especially with moving files around, and in system administration. I use both regularly. I hear XP is a big improvement over 2K, but I haven't spent much time with it.
Frequently, I hear Debian users excuse their install with "you only do it once". The problem is you HAVE to do it that once, and if you can't install, it doesn't matter HOW good the rest of the system is. With Mandrake, the user at least has a system up, though the stability may be questionable. With Debian, the same user may scratch his head, utter 4 letter words, and return to Doze.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Then donate to the Debian project through the non-profit organization Software in the Public Interest. Why the heck would you give your money to a corporation? If you donate to SPI, you'll get a tax receipt too. Can't say that about MDK User Club.
See this page: http://www.debian.org/donations
Why choose Debian over Mandrake?
- More packages than any other distribution.
- Latest software versions available faster (use Debian's 'unstable' tree.. which btw, is pretty darn stable! Nothing like the buggy mess that is MDK cooker.)
- Packages are exceedingly well built, highly integrated, and well optimized.
- It's cleaner / faster. Debian's default install isn't loaded down with lots of junk you probably won't need anyhow.
- Responsive support mailing lists: be polite and you'll get quick answers
- Incredibly easy to maintain / update due to superior dependancy handling
- All packages are available from a single location with many mirrors. No hunting.
Please note that you should be using Debian testing (Woody) to install as it's very mature and up to date.
And now come the whining newbie flames about how Debian is so impossible to install or other such entirely unfounded nonsense. RTFM and try before you cry folks. (-:
You couldn't get your friend's soundcard set up on his machine running Windows XP, so you installed OS X and it worked fine first time?
Something's wrong with this picture.
I presume repeating this thread is a, not too sublte, way in which /. is supporting Mandrake. Kudos to /. aside, I don't see the now, more muted, hue and cry about Mandrake's policy being no more than begging being valid. My educational background and the still greater part of my working life was spent in the trenches of commerce and market analysis. From this background I can emphatically say that a business plan that is innovative and adheres to the principles of Open Source is not begging simply because it is predicated on asking users to support the distro by joining a club that provides community, support and fasttrack information/distribution. If you're running a business and you find you have to go hat in hand to ask for development funds from investors is this begging? NO. Simply because the return on investment (i.e. joining the club) is not monetary does not vitiate the game plan in terms of economic viability. If a large business like Costco or some other mega outlet comes into a community it provides jobs and goods and services otherwise not available. You can bet every community will have a large number of it's members shopping in such places just to see the jobs in the community. A Golf club survies on memberships, how is this any different than joining Mandrake's club. I golfed for 18 years starting at age 6, although I'm not sure which is harder on my ego, struggling with my slice or struggling with tweaking an OS. I'd rather be in front of a monitor anyway. Mandrake's contribution to the community is manifold and only an idiot would think their gameplan is stigmatized because it doesn't follow a conventional GAAP program. No doubt those /. posters who deride the Mandrake way are still holding on to Enron stock. Yes Mandrake is my GNU/Linux distro of choice.
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
Here's my comment on the MandrakeForum board which was consistently modded down to "Score: -1, Troll". You'll be the judge.
- 1& mode=nested&order=0&sid=2018&lang=en
Through my opinions I was made very unwelcome in the "Mandrake community" and subsequently my basic membership in the MandrakeClub was unceremoniouly if by my own wish terminated:
---------------
It is NOT about expecting to get SO6 for free but principle! (Score: -1, Troll)
by Anonymous on Monday, March 25 @ 22:45:13 PST
http://www.mandrakeforum.com/article.php?thold=
Why are some people trying to demonize those displeased with MandrakeSoft's moves regarding the Club and paid-for proprietary software??
Whiners! Freeloaders! How bloody disappointing those few troublemakers are, demanding stuff for free...!!
Reality check:
For years I've bought boxes (Mandrake and other distros) without bothering helpdesk staff once, I've helped convert and personally support Linux newcomers (who buy boxes) and I've spent substancial chunk of my free time promoting and arguing for the use of Linux software in various ways. The strongest single argument for Linux use is its being an open platform without anyone capable of having unfair advantage over others.
Now on to why I am personally displeased with MandrakeSoft's handling of this debacle for reasons of principle:
1) MandrakeSoft appealed to people to join the club and pay the membership fee in order to help them _develop_ Free_Software. Nowhere did they state that some of the money might be spent on buying licenses for proprietary software, such as Sun's StarOffice, in bulk.
I don't believe it is a good idea for any Linux platform vendor to start buying proprietary software licenses on behalf of their customers since that decision should be left to the individual. As the experience with Microsoft has shown, pre-paid licenses distort the level playing field. "Since my vendor already bought this license for me why should I even consider alternatives..." The competitors of StarOffice, and later the ISV developers of other software whose competing product has cornered the market by means of pre-paid bundling can't be blamed for deciding against Linux support.
The correct procedure is quite simple though: just negotiate attractive prices for proprietary offerings for your customers and let them decide whether to buy it or not.
Is that principle somehow objectionable to people?
2) The membership subscription page had a special note at the bottom stating that "All members are entitled to the same benefits". Regardless of what MandrakeSoft's _intentions_ might have been, going back on such explicit and profound statement is morally questionable. Moreover, people were already "contributing" according to their personal resources and the quoted one third who paid for higher level memberships did so with no expectation of superior services, let alone pre-paid licenses for proprietary software.
This might be a good time to point out that all I ever expected in return for my membership fee was better access to the discussion areas (with developers participating) and _perhaps_ early access to updated packages. I NEVER EXPECTED ANY PRE-PAID PROPRIETARY SOFTWARE AS PART OF CLUB BENEFITS!
Now kindly explain to me how supporting these two simple principles suddenly makes me an enemy of MandrakeSoft, not to mention a WHINER and FREE-LOADER??
Could someone from MandrakeSoft kindly address my issues with these two principles without labelling me as an unsavoury character in an otherwise pleasant Mandrake community??
Currently it is becoming ever more obvious that people with opinions or principles such as mine aren't even welcome to the Mandrake club community, based on comments by Mandrake staff and other members...
---------------
I really wish someone, if not Red Hat themselves, would address the consumer space with a fully RH/rpm, LSB-compatible and Gnome-centric distro. I want someone to deserve my end-user friendly donations without proprietary corporate tie-ups. I awant commercial software to succeed on Linux, but without pre-paid preloads. It ought to be about users' choice!
I am very new to Linux and in my research I went through Mandrake's tutorial. Very nice for a newbie. Then wanting to try linux out, I downloaded 8.2 for free and it installed flawlessly, again very nice. Going 2 for 2 here, I expect to get huge returns on my $120, actually I already have! Due to my newbie status, money is all I have to contribute, wish I could do more. I will be contributing to other progects in this manner also. For those that do not think this is a good business model I guess it's because you won't shed a penny unless squeezed out of you. Well M$ is glad to oblidge you!
Gizmos Gagets For Ninjas
This is a good point and you're a good man to have. Multiple times, in fact.
Question: Are you using Macintosh Oh-Hoess Eckks right now?
This is a very powerful idea, and really gets to the root of the gratis/libre distinction. People are often initially attracted to free software because they don't have to pay for it. But the real prize, the one your grandkids will thank you for, is the intellectual commons and the long-term effect it can have on the world.
It's easy to forget this stuff when everybody is out of work . When everybody got regular paychecks it was no big deal to drop some bucks on somebody doing something interesting. But the screwed-up economy is just a circumstance, and a transient one at that. It doesn't really deserve the deciding vote about which human activities are most worthwhile.
WWJD for a Klondike Bar?
I'm sorry but MDK is crap. Don't buy into its pentium optimisations. Those optimisations don't increase performance, they just bloat. Slackware 8 (8.1 soon...) is the best or at least on par with Debian. It allows you to control every aspect of your system so you're forced to learn the innards of linux. I would even venture to say that newbies should start off with Slackware, that way their transition to Free/Net/OpenBSD will be far easier than going from MDK. IMO Slackware has the easiest setup also.
Loki's not a good example of a company to support, seeing as how they ripped off their employees and ran off with an unknown amount of money. Hell, the couple who was running it even put themselves down as people owed money in the bankruptcy, when they're the ones who ran it into the ground in the first place.
I'd prefer to have Linux companies, or multiple-platform companies, who aren't in it to rob, but in it to do software and want to be around for years to come.
Human nature is the same everywhere; the modes only are different. -- Earl of Chesterfield
In the open source projects I've been involved with over the past few years, I have seen active development and contributions from Red Hat, learned about many bugs from Debian, and seen some neat features donated by SuSE, however I've not really seen Mandrake doing much. They've always seemed like a company who lived off of Red Hat's back.
Is Mandrake actively involved in open source software development that benefits everyone (including other projects and distributions)?
What will Mandrake use extra funds for?
It should be pointed out (and many people don't realize this) that the "Pentium-optimized" packages are just like they say -- optimized for the Intel Pentium. If you don't have an Intel Pentium you may actually see a slowdown (for example, on a K-6, haven't benchmarked it on many others).
Mandrake's 8.2 release seems to have cured this. The `bugs' they're fixing post-release are almost entirely trivial. They're also releasing update kits like the one for a stable KDE3 desktop. The problem with avoiding all beta-quality apps is a baby-and-bathwater issue with avoiding the most complete and flexible apps as well. Any choice will be a compromise, no matter who makes it. 8.2 seems to have found a sweet spot in that it's close to the bleeding edge but very little is broken. For example, I plugged a second video card into this box before upgrading it (from 8.1b3) and the 8.2 installer found and configured that automagically (I didn't try expert mode that time, although I usually do just to see what questions I get asked) so now I'm dual-heading. Automatically.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Er... dang it this here Wheatonix can't run CADAM compiled for AIX. Heck with it. It sucks.
Clickety Click
The answer to your problems is CygWin. (Well, a better answer would be CrossWinds Connection ... [do I have that name wrong? probably. The big new Wine thing.]), but it you MUST have Windows installed as your OS, then CygWin is your rescue.
Another choice would be VMWare. It would be best with Linux as the base layer, but it will work with Windows at the base.
Win4Lin doesn't sound like it would do what you want, but you might give Lindows a look. It might be able to run Outlook. (And if it could, it could probably be used to close some of the worst security holes. Just log on as a particular user before using it. A user with almost no rights.)
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
I beg to differ. Briefly. I have to go back to coding a Linux-based app that we sell for a price with a quite a few digits.
Linux is actually a business success that is destined to advance. Amazon.com turned a loss into a profit by migrating to Linux, thus dodging license costs. Google runs on Linux. Various governments are looking into migrating onto Linux (their National Security advisors don't like to run software run by a company that got a settlement offer in such a weak case. Maybe there are paragraphs we don't know about?). IBM is embracing linux. Sun is recognizing Linux. Compaq & HP are dealing with Linux. Why? Because it is cost effective, and destined to become even more cost effective in the future.
A lot of really bright college graduates have used Linux extensively, and prefer working with Linux. Academia loves Linux, providing us with an ever expanding brainshare. This vastly increases Linux marketplace muscle. Would you like to develop your application on Linux, using free everything and readily available brainpower, or would you like to retrain your developers to use costly Microsoft solutions?
The hype was "pump and dump". However, some of those that followed the hype in trying out Linux got pleasantly surprised. It is a vibrant community, far outshining the dull, grey, business-oriented Microsoft-world. Microsoft once had that advantage over its competitors at the time (being developer-friendly), but it appears they have lost their shine.
On the long term, expect Microsoft to do several dramatic turns to re-attract the developer community - or die.
Stop the brainwash