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WineX 2.0
ZaMoose writes "Looks like Transgaming has released version 2.0 of WineX (with full support for Jedi Knight II and initial 3D sound support. Joy!) Prepackaged .debs and .rpms are available only to subscribers, but you can always just download and compile it yourself (you just won't get the nifty SafeDisk workarounds/InstallShield proprietary stuff)."
But does it run on FreeBSD?
The community that would pay isn't large enough to support a company.
Mac OS X and Windows XP working side by side to fight back the night.
But still...
It'd be really nice if games were ported/developed for linux. Then people will start switching operating systems. Nobody cares if you can run certain programs on linux with a bit of hacking except for those of us who already run linux. Recompile these games for linux, use standards such as opengl, etc...
That being said, I really like seeing these things coming to linux. I love playing certain computer games, and really hate that they are only written for windows (I miss you loki). But hey, I'm off to play some JK II now
Hear, hear. Also, buy games for Linux from people who go out on a limb to develop them. I haven't heard of any of them threatening lawsuits under the DMCA, and you know they appreciate your business because we can all use something to eat from time to time.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
To install Max Payne - so far it is working flawlessly on my Gentoo Linux setup (installed using the RPM with --nodeps)
Will write back with the results!
Derek
you guys (me too so i should shut up) have /.ed the site and transgaming have been complaining that they dont have enough money... they say if they do get enough money they will give all the binaries away
unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
Does anyone know if wineX will support CS 1.4/steam? I have tested the latested wineX cvs and latest wine cvs and can not get it to work.CS is the most popular online fps and it would suck if linux could no longer support it.
"The poet presents his thoughts festively, on the carriage of rhythm; usually because they could not walk" Nietzsche
I tried compiling it once... I now have a broken symbolic link
/root/.transgaming/c_drive
/root
...And it runs just as well as stock wine. I wonder how much proprietary stuff they add. Starcraft runs just as choppy as it does on regular wine.
TransGaming_Drive ->
in
I, for one, am thrilled. The number of of games taht were near impossible to work with the older WINE was keeping windowns on my machine. If this works as well as I've heard, w0ot!
if anyone is anything like me, then youre curious of benchmarks... more specifically, youre curious of benchmarks of the same game, on the same machine, between a native windows (2000, in my case) vs wineX comparison... one of the major things keeping me from putting linux on my main box is the game compatibility, and i want to know if the games that im already getting barely-playable FPSs on will improve, stay the same, or drop below playability... so, does anyone have any sort of comparison benchmarks of anything like this?...
Maybe just maybe this could be the Wine that'll run Everquest!
---
mf
I let my account lapse (on monday no less) becuase they had gone 4 months (!!) with out releasing squat.
If it's as good as it's supposed to be, I might renew the account for a while.
SDL seems like it makes it pretty easy to support Linux and Windows
Not only SDL, but also ClanLib and the very widely used Allegro library. Apparently, ClanLib and Allegro have a richer set of features than SDL (such as graphics primitives), but all three SDKs can talk to the various platforms' OpenGL implementations. With tools like these, publisher-developers have little excuse not to write cross-platform code (other than bribes from Microsoft).
Will I retire or break 10K?
Support people that porth the games!! I mean Wine is nice for trying to get people to use linux, but in the long run we need ported games! - - Happy Peguin - Hyperion - - Tux Games - Introversion . .. plus hunt for more!
JKII works mostly fine with latest vanilla wine (I have radeon7k something) provided that:
- you install it in windows, then you can copy it whereever
- some non-3d cutscenes don't appear in single player
- you don't set texture quality too high, with many players/big maps I see lot's of weirdness in the textures
- the brightness setting does not work, you have to use xgamma youself, the result is the same
- the cdrom must be mounted before starting the game
However the wine+linux combo seems noticably faster than on w2k with same settings. I'm not drawing any conclusions though, it might be just shitty drivers on windows or some tuning stuff I missed.
Yes and no.
If you're making a fully 2d game.. (or a not so featureful 3d game)sure it's no problem. The big problem now days is the "new and extended" 3d support that comes with DirectX.
Sure OpenGL works, but it's extremely lacking in comparison to DirectX. ( I would much rather have it the other way around -- but that's just not the truth unfortunately.) What the gaming industry really needs is either an updated version of OpenGL, or perhaps a new 3d standard that all can abide by.
arcane for life
You forgot at least one thing...
OS X.
Apple users are now, for the most part, Unix users, too. And there are games that they may want to run that won't work under VirtualPC that just might work under WINE or WineX. Apple users don't have the luxury of being able to install a MS OS natively.
If you get the CVS version you have to use No-CD cracks for games that have SafeDisk or SecuRom.
You can find most No-CD cracks (legally!) from your local www.gamecopyworld.com mirror
I highly suggest paying the $5 a month though. I have been doing it since the first day Transgaming set it up - and I will continue to do so. It is a great community and a great project - and its benefits are direct (no more rebooting!).
Derek
They provide a truly useful service for Linux gamers at a very reasonable price (far cheaper than most games) where purchasers actually get control over the direction of the project with their subscriptions. They also make their source code avaliable to anyone, sans the copy protection needed to play a lot of protected games. Install WineX from their source, test the non-copy protected demo version of your game, and if it works, buy WineX.
/sbin/ldconfig
/sbin/ldconfig
_ libdir}/*
That said, they're two ways to install software on Linux. One is RPM, the other has non standard install, uninstall, auditing and verification, leaves crap all over your system, makes it a nigthmare to build applications upon, and generally sucks. Here's a spec file you can use to create source and binary packages of Winex.
Summary: Runs Windows programs (especially multimedia ones) under Linux
Name: winex
Version: 20020407
Release: 1mm
Source0: %{name}-%{version}.tar.bz2
License: APSL
Group: Applications/Emulators
BuildRoot: %{_builddir}/%{name}-%{version}
Requires: kernel >= 2.4, XFree86-devel, gcc >= 2.7.2, flex >= 2.5
Requires: bison, glibc >= 2
%description
TransGaming WineX is a derivative of the Wine project. Wine is an implementation of
the Microsoft® Win32® APIs on top of UNIX and X-Windows - in essence, it is a Window
s® compatibility layer. Wine does not require Microsoft Windows to be installed, as
it provides an alternative implementation of Windows written from scratch with no Mi
crosoft code whatever.
TransGaming WineX includes a new implementation of the Microsoft DirectX multimedia
APIs, including Direct3D - the core graphics system most Windows games use for hardw
are accelerated 3D.
%prep
%setup -q
%build
%configure
make depend
make
%install
%makeinstall
%post -p
%postun -p
%clean
rm -rf %{buildroot}
%files
%defattr(-,root,root)
%{_bindir}/*
%{
%doc README ANNOUNCE BUGS DEVELOPERS-HINTS LICENSE LICENSE.winehq
%changelog
* Sun Apr 7 2002 Mike MacCana 1mm
- Created packages
I disagree with the premise that one can make a difference by not buying PC games, because I don't think Microsoft or game companies would really feel the difference. on the other hand, by supporting transgaming, codeweavers, and other contributers to the wine project (or by contributing your time to the wine project directly), then it will soon be irrelevant to open source people that some companies choose to write their software for windows. we will be able to offer compatibility at an API level, combined with a vastly superior price and support model.
Companies write software for windows because people who own windows tend to _purchase_ their software (because they don't know about the free alternatives). Windows users are used to shelling out money for software, even "free" shareware.
Linux and BSD, however, now have several good office products, excellent networking support including email, web browsers, and server software, and user-friendly distributions. when it becomes possible to play windows games and use legacy windows software, computer distributers will find competitive advantage in selling Linux or BSD pre-installed computers for $500 with hundreds of whizbang features which would cost several $1000's to provide under windows.
Linux & BSD distributions offer far better value for the money than windows already.. the only advantage windows has now is a commercial software base, and it would be a tremendous boon for open source operating system users to have access to all of that old legacy software.
Companies who develop X-Windows native software will continue to enjoy a vastly superior user interface over old, worn out windows software running under wine, so I really don't think it will be a problem to find companies willing to develop cross-platform or Linux native software using any number of convenient libraries which are already available. (Eg. Java, Qt, wx-windows, modular development best practices, etc.)
It seems that everyone missed the biggest new feature of this official release. This is the first official release of WineX with DirectX 8.0 support, meaning the newest games have a chance to work.
Holy shit!
It is perfect! I was playing in 1024x768x32 and it is flawless. Everything is there, sound, FPS, movies, everything is just as it is in Windows! In fact I think it even loaded the levels faster than it does in windows - very cool.
Seriously, on the FPS side, I couldn't tell a bit of difference from playing it in windows. This is on a 1.2Ghz Tbird with 512MB of RAM and a Geforce3TI500 using the newest nvidia drivers (2880).
It even installed perfectly and added itself to my kde desktop/menu.
Great job transgaming!
Time to try some more games!
Derek
Given the improvements since the last CVS I tried, I think it may be time to get a subscription. Now I just need to figure out if I should be using ALSA or OSS on my CMedia 8738 onboard sound. (It's a Soyo Dragon+, so there's a bunch of quality stuff onboard.)
Without having read the article, so feel free to lambast me, doesn't this sound like a bit of DMCA violation - circumventing the SafeDisc copy protection thingee (SafeDisk is the copy protection stuff right ?) ?
NZ Electronics Enthusiasts: Check out my Trade Me Listings
MacOS X games are not "UNIX" based, they are generally MacOS 8.?/9 based. Apple has an API called Carbon that is based on their legacy MacOS API. Carbon based games can run natively on both MacOS 8.?/9 and MacOS X.
Even if a title will only run on MacOS X it will probably be Carbon based. Existing Mac developers will want to leverage their existing code and experience regarding targeting both PC and Mac or porting from PC to Mac.
Lost in this release is a far more important announcement. Transgaming is throwing support behind a fork of Wine: ReWind!
Seems, they take issue with the recent change of licenses for Wine. They are actively encouraging developers to contribute to there X11 fork. Understanding that a vote of the developers leaves there branch in the minority, they are touting cash incentives and the some of there 2.0 source as bait.
The war of the branches begins...
What are you doing on BSD anyway if you want stuff like this?
To tell you the truth? Nothing, except good WineX can mean better Wine, which means I can run Visual Studio, and other windows crap so I can finally wipe the remnants of it from my systems. I'm already on a 100% FreeBSD laptop, works wonderfully.
LOL, how many times have I seen this posted?
Linux Office apps, while good, are pretty crappy compared to Microsoft's version. None of the current Linux office applications have the integration, flexibility, and compatibility of MS Office.
fucktard is a tenderhearted description
I'm pretty sure the TransGaming people licensed the SafeDisc code from whoever
does it, so that's why it's not in the CVS version (license restriction, I'm
sure)...
Will I need to reinstall Windows or does it get by without any reliance on Windows binaries?
No, in fact it really can't even be made to use a Windows install (like regular wine can). There are ways of FORCING it, but that is beside the point.
So, no, you won't need windows at all.
Derek
Because maybe you're like me, someone who does a lot of things with Linux other than just surfing the web, coding, etc. I use my box to run several servers (HTTP, FTP, etc.) and also host several websites. I'm also the gateway for the network at my house. So if I decided I want to play Dark Age of Camelot in Windows Me, everyone who depends on my system being available 24/7 are screwed. Ideally, I would have a little windows box to play games on, but I don't have the money. If a quick download and compilation of some software is all it takes for me to play some games (while my machine stays available for those that need it) then I'm all over that. Unfortunately, I haven't gotten WineX to play any of my 'doze games aside from Solitaire (cough) but I'm hoping the availability of Direct X 8 in WineX 2 will change that.
mstyne: real name, no gimmicks
Eat it Bowie.
This is what they felt like doing, so they did it. If they were spending their energies elsewhere, working one something they _didn't_ find interesting, then the energy would be wasted.
At the very least, this lets us all save the money we will *cough*spend*cough* on our windows license just to play a game.
Rebooting to windows means that I have to stop everything I was doing, just to play the game. When you have a whole bunch of editor & debugging windows open it's a big pain. (+ servers, DB connections, remote logins, etc...). Playing in Linux allows me to take 30 min to relax and play the game instead of 30 min to play + 15 min to restart everything I was working on to its original state. At work, I rarely reboot or even log out. Even at home it's still a pain.
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.
This is the first official release of WineX with DirectX 8.0 support, meaning the newest games have a chance to work.
If only that were true. I just downloaded and installed the new version, and it doesn't support the "newest game" I have, Dungeon Siege. DS insists on having DirectX 8.1 before it will install. Of course, any coder worth his/her/its weight in donkey turds knows that you shouldn't change the API between minor versions, so the program shouldn't care whether I have 8.0 or 8.1. But to give Microsoft (the publisher of DS) the benefit of the doubt -- which (A) I'm still willing to do, even though they rarely deserve it, and (B) even so, doesn't make them look too good -- GPG probably found some nasty bugs in DirectX 8.0 while writing this game, so MS had to fix the bugs and release DirectX 8.1 to make this game work.
Not to dis TransGaming, though -- Diablo II works beautifully, and the LoD expansion seems to work as well (still need to test this more thoroughly), so major props to them. I'd do more tests tonight, but I have to work for a living.
On stereophonic equipment, the monaural sound obtained through multiple channels will enhance your listening pleasure.
With GPL there is no "while it last" (sic). As long as we have a civil society that respects licenses, the software is protected and will remain free. The day that we no longer have civil society, well, we can still use and support the product since we have the source.
That is the major difference between open source and closed source. If a closed source software company dies, your software is no longer supported. If an open source software company dies, your software investment is protected.
Get with the program, coward.
Apple users are now, for the most part, Unix users, too. And there are games that they may want to run that won't work under VirtualPC that just might work under WINE or WineX. Apple users don't have the luxury of being able to install a MS OS natively.
Using either Wine, WineX or ReWind (X11-license branch) won't help Mac users for now, since there's no CPU emulation in any of these. OTOH, VirtualPC does that (emulation of CPU). I don't own a Mac, so I'm not up to date on the subject, but the only OSS x86 emulator that I know of is Bochs. And I wouldn't recommend that to play games (slow as hell on a PIII-600).
Remember, Wine Is Not an Emulator... It will only run windows programs on x86 hardware.. The win32 binaries still run natively (sort of) under linux. Wine does not translate machine instructions from x86 to whatever you're running, it just moves them around more to linux's (or BSD, or hypothetically any other x86 native OS's) liking. So, as long as MacOS only runs on PPC (foreseeable future, which is fine...) it will never run wine in its current incarnation. There would have to be a true emulator in there somewhere to do that...
Oh you mean like the brain dead interface to the ATI pixel shaders that DX8 exposes versus the fully functional opengl extensions. Oh ok yeah like Carmack hasn't gone on a rant about that one. DX is just good enough that lazy ppl use it.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
For me it's about dedicating far LESS space on my HD. Not all of us pay the Micro$haft tax (The only version of WIndows I've ever owned was 95 and I've used Linux ever since). While I dearly love native Linux apps, the ability to seamlesley run win32 apps is very important, and wine provides this functionality for me.
OpenGL isn't really lacking in comparison to Direct3D (though as a graphics programmer myself, I do tend to like D3D more these days). Some newer technologies, like shaders, are a bit more of a pain to support under OpenGL because you have competing extentions (ATI vs Nvidia) but it can be done. Doom3 is the most advanced graphics engine you'll see in the next couple years and its written using OpenGL.
The real problem isn't so much that Linux doesn't have the tools or libraries, its that so few Linux users are willing to buy games that it isn't worth the porting time and support costs for a for-profit company to bother worrying about it as a platform. This was proven by the death of Loki and has also been verified by, among others, id software, who said their Linux sales of Quake3 were extremely disappointing.
Uhh....I fail to see how I was complaining about lack of catering towards my proprietary OS. The thread parent said that everyone should just use Windows for games instead of emulating.
Perhaps you should work on your reading skills before you post.
---
Correct, very correct. But there's nothing to say there's no possiblity of true emulation occuring in the future.
---
Most new releases (past month or two) are DirectX 8.1 only, whether they are from Microsoft or not. Yes, DX8.1 is mostly a bug fix release (though it does add some new features, mainly for ATI Radeon users).
For all those who believe that hybrid proprietary and free software business models might be stable, please compare:
U C: www.transgaming.com/businessmodel.php+transgaming+ subscriber+aladdin&hl=en
http://216.239.35.100/search?q=cache:9MjQn79wp0
with
http://www.transgaming.com/businessmodel.php
Notice how all the talk about eventually returning the semi-proprietary code to the community has been unceremoniously removed...
It saddens me that they have apparently abandoned the idea of eventually freeing their customers and letting them share freely with their friends once they have a stable subscriber base sufficient to pay the expenses.
What Transgaming is doing is pretty cool as an interim solution for gamers. On the other hand, I hope to see more Free Software community-developed games in the future. There certainly is an incentive to create free games: they're fun to write and fun to play! One of these days I trust there'll be a really killer Open Source multiplayer game that everyone will enjoy and at no cost. Various libraries like SDL and CrystalSpace are making headway. It's going to be exciting as they mature.
Because a PC has a longer useable life span.
Now out with you, damn troll!
not for games. he's actually right, because dedicated game machines...
1. have better games: most of the serious gaming money is made from games written for dedicated game machines, so the games are naturally better.
2. are a better lifestyle fit: usually they are located in your living room or entertainment area, which is much more conducive to relaxation, as opposed to hunching over a CRT.
3. are easier for vendors to support: since the hardware is all the same, game companies do not have to deal with issues such as the differences between 3 to 30 different graphics cards and tweaking to get optimal performance from each one, or supporting varying CPU speeds, or levels of RAM.
Very little money is made from PC games, compared to the vast sums of money made from selling games for Sony Playstation or Nintendo Game Cube.
Score: 5 Informative
If you patch your safedisk game with a crack, you can run without the binary version.
Alice (full version) works beautifully this way.
Ironic that the pirates would come to the rescue of legimate game owners.
Desperation is a stinky cologne
And if you'd read http://www.transgaming.com/gavstates.php you'd understand exactly what is going on.
It's a question of motivation of game writers.
Scenario A.
Goal: I want to popularize the platform XYZ, because I think it's great. I want more people to use platform XYZ.
Action: Let's implement some game for XYZ.
Scenario B.
Goal: I have a great idea for new game. I want more people to play my game.
Action: Let's choose some platform that (a) allows to write games easily and (b) delivers games to broad audience.
Rhetorical questions:
- Which scenario delivers better games?
- What is the platform of choice in scenario B?
Linux Office apps, while good, are pretty crappy compared to Microsoft's version.
So what? OpenOffice works fine for me and probably most users. It does a great job printing, which is one of the most important issues for the pragmatic, and one of the reasons I originally liked Word 5 better than wordperfect back when people felt they had a choice. OpenOffice goes way beyond Microsoft in this regard. It's *easy* to print to pdf, which can cost $100's in Microsoft land, and great for students who want to print at school from public terminals or companies that want to send a pre-formatted but not easily editable document (and this happens a lot). It's *easy* to print to ps format, which can be converted to just about anything and manipulated in any which way.
I have been using OpenOffice to take notes on my laptop in several of my courses, and can honestly state from experience that it is GOOD ENOUGH. Word processing works fine. Spreadsheet works fine. Presentation software works fine. Draw package works fine. I can make pretty UML diagrams with Dia and whatever whizbang image processing I want with the Gimp.
So what if MS Office is better? If someone puts it on my desk I'll use it, but if I buy a computer that comes pre-loaded with OpenOffice, then I would see absolutely no reason to spend half a month's rent on a replacement. Heck, I have more than one licensed copy of Office 2000 and Windows 2000, and I don't even see any point in keeping a windows partition on either of my computers for the purpose of using MS Office.
In my life, and I would imagine the lives of many other people, MS Office is really not that big a deal. It's a good product, but I wouldn't go out and buy it now that I have OpenOffice installed.
I don't think so. I still play SEGA Saturn and Nintendo 64 games, bought 5 years ago. But my Pentium 100, about the same age, is now useless.
What ever happenned with that? Did they reach the number of subscribers? Did they scrap that idea?
I personally am always doubtful, when people claim that they are going to release source under an open source license at some future date. From what I've seen they seem to change their mind over half the time.
I guess, I really don't care either way if release the source or not. I'm not subscribed and so they're under no obligation to me, but I was just curious.
Money now, product later? No doubt these particular guys are honest, but it doesn't give them a whopping big incentive to do their best work as quickly as possible.
Realistically, people are signing up mainly to support them, i.e. donating. Why on Earth should they say, "If you want to donate, this is the amount you must give. We won't take less, and we're not interested in more." ?
I still don't understand why so few open source software projects are taking voluntary payments. It seems like the perfect match: "We give you the software with no obligation, you pay us whatever you like to encourage more work."
Kraf, thanks for the xgamma tip; I knew there must be a way to adjust gamma somewhere :-)
There seems to be a problem with JK2's CPU detection code on 1GHz+ CPUs under vanilla WINE (the multiplayer executable gets to "Detected AMD CPU with 3DNow!" then crashes with a divide-by-zero).
To fix it, get the vanilla WINE source (for Debian users like me: the result of "apt-get source wine" works nicely), open up win32/newfns.c, replace all occurences of
#if defined(__i386__) && defined(__GNUC__)
with
#if 0
and recompile (Debian users: cd to wine-yyyymmdd and run "dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc" to make new .debs).
If you don't like having to find and mount the CD, the "DUCK" no-CD crack from gamecopyworld doesn't work reliably in multiplayer, whether you use Linux or Windows; the "BH" no-cd crack (the one containing Start-MP.exe) does. Please do actually buy the game though... writing a game this good should be rewarded with actual sales :-)
I had no texture problems in High (not Very High) texture quality on a Geforce2 Pro with the latest nvidia drivers (version 1.0-2802).
Until the OS community is joined by skilled art people OS games will be limited.
not quite that easy, because the COM binary interface changed (which is why games linked specifically against 8.1 require 8.1). I dont think it would be very difficult for the WineX guys to kludge their DirectX libs to 'support' 8.1, even if it wasn't 8.1 underneath. Most people aren't using the minor new features of 8.1, they just want to ensure they get the (significant) bug fixes over 8.0/8.0a, as a lot of companies blew a lot on support due to some bad bugs in the first couple versions of DX8.
This is FUD.
Transgaming plans on releasing many pieces to the X11 Wine branch for two good reasons.
1. It costs more to maintain these many code deltas from the main (Rewind) tree. If they are general bug fixes that aren't strategic like DirectX or InstallShield, they want to release it to X11 so they don't have to use resources to keep maintaining it.
2. For strategic pieces like COM for InstallShield, they plan on trading those pieces for other LGPL Wine pieces that they need. For example, if they want a certain LGPL piece, they may consider licensing their own ASPL piece if that LGPL piece is also made X11. Everyone benefits.
I personally support both Transgaming and CodeWeavers financially. I hope both succeed and continue to improve Wine for everyone.
Are any games *actually* supported with this release? I think they're *still* being sneaky if they're claiming this is the second version of WineX that supports running Windows games under Linux. Famously, version 1.0 only 'supported' the Sims, and it turned out that meant that you have to have a semi-ported-to-Linux version, and that the Windows version wouldn't run.
Which begs the question: is the Sims now supported?
While I fully support all efforts to get out of the MS world, I really don't think native linux games are sensible in the near future...
Why? Because the linux community will want it open source or free. There's no real money to be made off of providing support for it (like there is for the OS), so all you'll get is the people who develop it in their spare time, or a large amount of those being a comittee which tends to ruin visions and gameplay...
If games were free, we'd probably end up with a load of tetris, minesweeper and solitaire clones, and certainly none with the depth of detail of MOHAA, the long term community of UT or the pure damn fun of NOLF.
We have to pay for these games... Otherwise they don't get made. Ok, so there are good open source alternatives now, but they're derivatives of the original styles of games. Not a problem, but there had to be the original trailblazing the way...
I don't want to use MS, pure and simple, but I want to play games, and WineX at the moment seems the only alternative. I don't want to waste 10 minutes of my time, I want to immerse myself for hours in them. I have to pay for that type of game...
I'm sorry if this seems vague, I think I might have a cold coming on, and I've always been bitter I couldn't get UT to work under linux...
Hit Enter when prompted for a password
Well, consoles have better games in some genres. Like Fighting for instance. Compare them in RTS or Adventure and the situation is reversed. And this ties in with point 2 because games that consoles excel on (Fighter, arcade style racing etc.) are generally better as a "fun for many" game and thus is good in front of a big screen TV.
True. But with the latest libraries for the PC market it's becoming easier. (Although you have to test the game on a lot of setups to be sure.) Consoles are generally coded more "to the metal" which makes it harder to code on them.
Then again, you're probably trolling.
Latest nVidia drivers are 1.0-2880. Just FYI.
I wish I had a kryptonite cross, because then you could keep Dracula and Superman away.
But my Pentium 100, about the same age, is now useless.
:))
How come such a powerfull computer be useless for 3D gaming?
Fabio - Sumare/Sao Paulo/Brazil/South America/Earth/Solar System/Milky Way/Universe
http://www.morroida.com.br
*laugh* "..access to all of that old legacy software". I don't think I've heard of Windows stuff being "legacy" before, but if linux takes off like this, it will be...
but is there much difference between CodeWeaver's Wine, and Transgaming's WineX?
I take it they both submit code to the main Wine project, but have custom extensions that aren't in Wine. Can I install both, if I want to run both MS-Windows apps, and MS-Windows games?
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. --- Albert Einstein
On the plus side, Wine runs Lotus Notes pretty well and saves me from having to reboot at work to check my mail.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Most Linux gamers buy the Windows version of the game and dual boot or emulate.
Wine is not an emulator. VisualBoyAdvance is.
transferring one sale from the Windows column to the Linux column doesn't do a developer any good, they need additional sales
If you port your game to Linux, your customers will be able to run it on PDAs that run Linux, giving them something to do during downtime (such as on a train or bus or something).
DirectX has an "unfair" advantage coming from the OS vendor
If SDL is bundled with Mandrake, then it "com[es] from the OS vendor" too.
Even Id once stated publicly (Game Developer Magazine) that it doesn't make business sense to support Linux, that they only do it because it is cool.
In other words, id Software ports its products to the GNU/Linux system not because it'll provide any additional sales in the short run but because a cross-platform policy builds the id Software brand in the long term. Many analysts have claimed that a company's trademarked brand name is its biggest asset, as it represents the goodwill of the company.
Will I retire or break 10K?
What is JediKnight 2 for Windows? I only know JediKnight 2 on OS X, a Cocoa-based Aqua-compliant and all around great IRC client... strange how programmers seem to lack creativity when it comes to naming their apps.
That's a long time that pirates come to the rescue of legimate game owners. I loved to play Baldur's Gates, but from playing it a little too much ;) I have scratched the surface of the CD :( After contacting the distributor, sending 5 english pounds, waiting 3 month to receive my scratched CD back. I started to search to find some second hand disks. Now, for my most frequent used games, I use a backup of the CD(s) (The sims, Baldur's gates...). But to play with these backup I need Pirates for patching them or cracking the protection :) And for the best these backup CD are as often as possible with the latest patchs, then no more double work to install the game, patch, patch, patch and play. Just install and play :)
The rpm build fails pretty early on with the error:
This is after the following libtoolize warnings: I'm not a total newbie, but autoconf and rpm make me feel like one.Some 3 weeks ago I went to transgaming's website for a gander at how much a subscription costs. I crawled over that thing like a maggot for hours, clicking every link in site, before giving up. I could not find anywhere on the site with pricing info, or where to sign up for a subscription, or how. For a company that wants your money, they sur emake it difficult! Most places have a big "Sig up now!" link on the front page, but not Transgaming. It seems mired in enigma.
Am I just dumb? I hope so. Can anyone post the link that shows how much a subscription is and how you sign up?
It seems with this release there is a Subscribe Now! link on the front page after all. I guarentee that was not there before!
What is the platform of choice in scenario B?
Well, I for one hope to help change this.
Behold the power of the comsumer(s).
Sigs pose an operational security risk and help the baddies aggregate data. I guess commenting does too, oops.
Back when I was first on the Atari scene (about 1982) I met people who bought and paid for legitimate copies of programs they liked, put the box unopened on a shelf, and downloaded a cracked version from a BBS. The pirates deliver a solution that works reliabily, while many copy protected programs abused the hardware to the point where you needed 7 tries to load a program you had a right too.
>The community that would pay isn't large enough to support a company.
>
Damn right. This is what happens when you have a market dominated by non-PC ((Console) gamers who aren't interested in PC Games/PC Gaming.
It looks like the CVS check out was incomplete. Compiling now.
>The real problem isn't so much that Linux doesn't have the tools or
>libraries, its that so few Linux users are willing to buy games that
>it isn't worth the porting time and support costs for a for-profit
>company to bother worrying about it as a platform. This was proven by
>the death of Loki and has also been verified by, among others, id
>software, who said their Linux sales of Quake3 were extremely
>disappointing.
>
>
How long are you PC-Gaming lusers are going to keep parroting this bullshit? The fact that sales of the PS2 reached all time highs at the same time doesn't enter into this eh? What idiots like you don't want to admit is that the vast,vast majority of Linux users *ARE NOT PC GAMERS NOR ARE THEY INTERESTED IN PC GAMING* We are the people who are buying PS2's and GameCubes and abandoning the PC Gaming market in droves. Of course you're not going to be selling crap FPS's like Quake3 and UT to us because *WE AREN'T INTERESTED IN BUYING OR PLAYING THESE LAME-ASSED GAMES!!!*
>Linux Office apps, while good, are pretty crappy compared to
>Microsoft's version. None of the current Linux office applications
>have the integration, flexibility, and compatibility of MS Office.
>
Did it ever occur to you that maybe we don't want to follow the lame example of MS Office?
He showed us a demo of the Sims (ran without a hitch) and talked to us about Wine being an implementation of Windows and not a Windows emulator, just so we'd know the difference. It was nice and all, but I kept wondering "Will this actually work?" So the night after, I compiled it and tried to install a non-copy-protected piece of software. This turns out to be very hard, as the install procedure is kind of strange, and they don't include some of the nice setup stuff by default that WineX has when you subscribe and grab an RPM.
So... what does this have to do with WineX 2.0? I recently subscribed to their web-services so I could get a copy of WineX to use on my girlfriend's Linux box so she could play any video games she owned when she ran Windows. I installed the RPM and tried to run the setup of The Sims (this should have worked) and it couldn't read the disc... hmmm...
So I figured, I'll wait til WineX 2.0 comes out after I tried every game we own and only had success with Starcraft. I hope this release is a good one, and I hope I can play Diablo II with it, but if I can't everyone will catch hell. :)
The subscription fee is pennies btw, $15.00USD for three months. Well worth it if the damn thing works. :)
"It's here, but no one wants it." - The Sugar Speaker
Hmmm. I tried putting my Jedi Knight II CD in my PS2. It wouldn't load. Funny thing, that.
Serious Sam wouldn't load either. Nor Tribes 2. Return to Castle Wolfenstein wouldn't even boot up. Not even Medal of Honor would work. We're not even going to talk about the Sims, Black and White, Dungeon Siege, or Freedom Force.
Seems I do still need my PC for something...
I wish I had a kryptonite cross, because then you could keep Dracula and Superman away.
You missed plex: seems kind of dean right now, but still on the "Mandrake supported apps" list
Put identity in the browser.
Unfortunately, in Scenario B sub goals (a) and (b) conflict. I've been looking for a resolution to this, but Java doesn't work. It seems like Mozilla should, but documentation is a bit hard to come by. Smalltalk (Squeak) carries this large baggage along with it (it's nice baggage for a programmer, but a hinderance when programming is not intended). Ruby and Python don't have decent graphics packages. C is good for systems work, but much less good for games (except for arcade type games, which don't interest me). C++ .. well, I don't like it. I find all the casting that is required to be .. ugly (that's a part of my problem with Java). Eiffel is too inflexible about run-time dynamics, and has no good graphics.
Probably eventually I'll decide to do something like use swig to wrap OpenGL in a form that Ruby can handle, but so far Ruby doesn't have a "create a standalone" capability that's even as good as Python's.
The main trouble with Python isn't the language, it's the use of space as a syntactic marker. I really prefer that tabs be used as indent markers, and with most editors that works find. Some editors, however, change tabs to spaces. Worse, Glimmer, at least the last version I looked at, changed each tab to 8 spaces as soon as you open the file. If you don't catch this immediately, you can totally garbage the logic of your program. And I didn't catch it for a few days. It was so bad I had to start over nearly from scratch. (I used a print-out as a guide, and hand wrote in what the indentation should be!)
And, of course, with the recent license changes I can't use any recent version of the MS software for anything. I must admit that I haven't been buying new copies whenever I hear of a license amendment, so this isn't a guaranteed accurate fact. But, OTOH, if they make an improvement in one month, I don't have any evidence indicating that the next month they con't come back with something even worse than before.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Note the change of the API to stop DX8.0 working with DX 8.1. And the hurriedly released DX8.1 synchronised with the cessation of 'official support' for Win95.
As far as I can see, it looks more like MS wanting to stop any Win 95 users from even having a look in at new games, tying them into forcible upgrades to XP.
That being said, I hear there were additions to support extra features that were added to ATI's radeon card that were not present on the GeForce3 range, so there is some extra functionality added. However, most games won't use this extra functionality.. Wo why not just let them be, with requirements for least common denominator in the API?
Seems like incentives being offered to upset the user base, and get yourself the nice shiny new stuff that MS is pushing for cheap.
Cheers,
Malk
Although you probably could run these games with the no-CD patch, how would you install them?
I always thought the best thing about Transgaming was the whiz-bang Installshield stuff. Or is that a part of the CVS archive?
Weaselmancer
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
I prefer Linux, but some points are shaky at best, so I'll comment on them. :)
Scripting is there, cmd can do scripting. The syntax is really arcane, not nearly as smooth as, say, bourne shell, but you can implement bourne shell level scripts in cmd, zsh, on the other hand offers some really cool features, but bourne shell seems to be the de facto standard. I don't *like* using cmd, but I am confident it is as functionally complete as bourne.
Stability, with 2k I would say you have equal probability of decent stability as you do with linux. Funky hardware/drivers can bring Win2K down screaming a painful death, but the case is true in linux too. Now the difference to me is that under linux when this happens I can more easily ignore the things that cause the system to go down hard. Also, a graphics driver issue can crash your X session, but leave the system still working on the network (remotely log in and fix it is possible). This means little for desktop users (system may as well crash if they lose all their apps anyway), but in a professional network, particularly servers, this separatism is very important.
Multiple desktops, no problem, the powertoys and tons of other apps offer this. I know you said by default, but powertoys are so readily available they might as well count.
Virus security is correct, given the current climate. However, if linux had the same sort of users, it would be a problem (everyone logged in as root, and if a large platform, popular target for viruses). Now what I like about linux and other unix systems is that users (and even services) can pretty much do whatever they need to without dangerous privs, where in windows you *need* admin privs to do some of the most basic things, and therefore the platform is vulnerable in that way.
Now the last two are valid points for not rebooting. Of course, witht he last one you might be tempted to close a lot of those windows to free up resources for the game
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Use OSS,
I have a VIA AC97 chip using Alsa drivers with Mandrake 8.2 and sound doesnt work in wineX 2.0 with it.
Not to mention VBScript and JScript. As well as PerlScript if you install ActiveState's Perl.
"People that quote themselves in their signatures bother me" - athakur999
Actually, while I've heard people rave about MS Office quite a bit, I've found it rather piss-poor as an Office suite. Word is a bloated, slow, buggy word processor (I was *really* bitter after I typed something up and submitted it to my boss and a bug in Word that screws up a numbered list font's last number if you change the font after the table had screwed up the sign). I'm from the school that used computers before toolbars became the only way most people control their programs, and so the toolbars that MS throws all over the place do very little to make me happy. Zippy the Paperclip -- which throws the program into an inexplicably modal environment upon unpredictable user input -- is one of the worst UI ideas I've ever seen. I don't like the fact that I need to go to a dialog box to restart numbering in a numbered list. I don't like the fact that the table editor is rather difficult to manipulate, clever as the interface idea may be.
Excel is probably the best piece of software in the package, but I hate the wizards, which takes away much of the functionality. If I ever get guppi set up with gnumeric, it may give excel a real run for its money, since I don't use any more functionality besides charting than gnumeric has.
I loathe powerpoint. I've yet to see a bulletized lecture made in powerpoint that's done anything to help me remember the lecture. At college, I'm better off if the prof puts up a text file or postscript file that can be downloaded after the class for study.
Access is crap. I'm not a huge database fanatic, but Access is crap for a database. I thought the entire point of having programmers run out and spend years developing a database was to get really good general-purpose performance out of the thing. Access is one of the slowest pieces of productivity software I've ever used.
"Integration" is not a good thing, regardless of how many times it's been trumpeted as a bullet point by MS. I'd prefer "modularity", thank you very much. A consistent user interface and standards based data interchange between programs do not imply "integration".
When it comes to flexibility, I'm lost. Office is "flexible" so far as you can reorganize the menus, which is rare for most GUI programs. But comparing Office to Linux programs and calling it flexible is just a joke.
And if "compability" means "Can read Microsoft Office files", then I agree. Microsoft's import filters have traditionally been less than stellar, outmatched by their competitors at DataViz and the import abilities in WordPerfect.
May we never see th
Regarding sending documents around -- unless you have the need to make the document editable for document collaboration, Microsoft Word format is a really awful interchange format, especially between companies. You have no guarantees on the fonts available at the other end. The version of Office at the other end may prevent the person from reading the thing, or may throw out some formatting information. You have a particularly nasty (and in the past, widespread) vector for computer viruses.
PDF is designed specifically for sending out copies of computer-generated documents for reading. It does a very good job of it, and should always be used instead of Office for doing this.
May we never see th
She did in Dogma.
May we never see th
No, Linux versions of games from commercial developers will be nearly exclusively x86. Non-x86 Linux is too small a niche, niche of a niche actually, to consider.
Non-x86 Linux may be, but if you have a good SDK, and the SDK is ported to the major PDA operating systems (Palm OS and Pocket PC), you can recompile for free.
PDAs will also lack the horsepower/memory/etc for nearly all commercial games.
Commercial games != commercial first-person shooters. Not all commercial games are 3D. Tetris, in particular, continues to sell well, even though it's been cloned on a 1.2 MHz machine with 128 bytes of RAM. If 16.8 MHz and 384 KB of RAM is powerful enough for the Game Boy Advance, then games should have no problem running on PDAs. (Or by "memory" do you mean "storage"?)
Will I retire or break 10K?
1) I would send it, but it's too late :) I gave this Pentium to charity
:)
2) The problem is not with old games. I still play Tetris, Digger more than any of new 3D games. My problem is with space for computers - I live in 2-bedroom apartment and my closet is full of high-tech toys that I can't physically put anywhere. So, only the most efficient devices survive. Which are:
- powerful PC that I'm using for both work and games
- my daughter's iMac (the original 233 MHz version). We play incredible machine on iMac, BTW. Great game.
- my wife's G4 (for graphic design and photoshopping)
- Saturn, Nintendo 64, Gamecube.
The rest are in the closet. What happens when the next 10GHz PC is around? Of course, I'll buy it and the current PC will go to the closet. But still, my Nintendo 64 will be around, I'm sure
hey can someone please help me with getting Winex 2.0 on CVS, im pretty experianced with linux but have never needed to use CVS before other than for a couple XMMS updates and their page is easier to read than wine's.
;-)
Just telling me the commands would help
I have WINE 20020411 (newest) compiled and installed if that helps.
Do you have any idea how expensive it is to maintain a PC for gaming? If you did you would never call a PC gamer cheap again.
Especially considering the fact that some of the newer games have requirements that are completely ludicrous. Why does ANY program require a 500Mhz processor with 128mb ram and 16mb a video ram? I can understand the 16mb video ram, but jesus... 500mhz?? My systems a 450mhz....
-- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
ok thanx a lot.
the only thing i was missing on the command was to look fro the module "wine" i kept trying things like "winex" and "winex-2-0".
...currently compiling WineX 2.0 CVS...
:)
How about WarCraft 3 beta?
Since i already beat JK2 that'll be the final reason i wont have to goto Windows
Of course businesses may have already deployed it, and they might feel the need to purchase a license for people to use at home.
Personally, I feel comfortable using whatever is in front of me, whether it is Microsoft Word, OpenOffice, Lyx, or anything else, as long as I can make the document look good, and get the information (complete with diagrams) down as quickly as the prof can write on the blackboard. Finally, my ideal word processor has to make the document look good when it prints. That's all I ever need from Word or Excel whenever I use them at home, or at work, and they deliver that beautifully. The point is that now installed on my computer are alternatives which perform just as beautifully, so why pay for Office if I have those?
Granted that most computer users fit the profile of using windows and already having a copy of Office. It already works fine, so there is no good justification to plunk down another $200 to upgrade.
The "real world" that people keep talking about is the one I'm already living in. It is a world where people cannot afford to take on unnecessary expenses if they can help it. It is a world where GOOD ENOUGH has to be GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU, at least if you care about advancing to the next level of
a) eliminating debt
b) starting your own business
Rather than toiling as an employee to pay down interest on unnecessary debt.
Did it ever occur to you that maybe we don't want to follow the lame example of MS Office?
.sxw files. Lack of file format compatibility was what got WordPerfect in trouble in the good ol' days.
Exactly. May I add that MS Office's integration, flexibility, and compatibility are no longer as legendary as they used to be.
Unless I am mistaken, OpenOffice can read and write Office format, but Office has no idea what to do with
The user interface of OpenOffice is pretty intuitive. You have all the old, worn out icons at the top of the screen, same as all those boring Office programs, but more interesting is the document context menu, which allows you to quickly format things in very powerful ways without moving your mouse all over the place. (Of course keyboard shortcuts work too.)
So in my opinion is OpenOffice better than MS Office? No. But is MS Office worth the trouble to install if I already have OpenOffice running fine? No, MS Office is not worth the trouble any more.
I am searching for any info for a long time. Does anyone run Civilization 3 or Capitalizm 2 with winex? Is it possible? What about HOMAM4?
I've spent the day fooling around with WineX and Diablo II/LOD. It was a pain, but worth it.
:1.0. Now it's perfect. No window manager to interfere with the game (the ALT meta key was a particular annoyance), it runs using the full screen, and doesn't interfere with my KDE desktop at all.
1. Uninstalled WineX 1.03
2. Nuked my Diablo directory
3. Installed WineX 2.0
4. Installed Diablo II and LOD
5. Failed to get it to run, banged head against wall
6. Realized it wouldn't run because I didn't have 640x480 and 800x600 resolutions defined for my xserver.
7. Added the additional resolutions.
8. Ran the game! w00t!
Not being happy with the way things were, I then reconfigured everything to run the game on a second xserver at
Performance it's bad, about 30 fps compared to 50 on Windoze. The font used to display status info (type "fps" in the chat box) is much too small, but other than that, it seems solid.
Time to kill Baal for the billionth time.
-- Will program for bandwidth
So... why is it that no one on sourceforge EVER lists the valid module names for CVS checkout???? All I could get here is modulename 'wine', which, as I'm sure everyone here knoes, is not 'WineX'.
Please, if you have a sourceforge project with CVS access, please list the valid modules available for checkout.
You are all fartheads.
The game is HO-HUM at best. Nice to see more work done in providing an alternative gaming platform but did no one learn anything from Loki's messy demise ?
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Here's my predicament.
.WAV editors, tons of MP3 and OGG tools, but nothing like those programs. There is nothing out there that compares to Sound Forge, which right now is the Gold Standard for audio mastering. And there isn't ANYTHING that resembles ACID, Sonic Foundry's loop composition software.
I want to get out from under Redmond's thumb just like everyone else here. (Heh, funny considering my cert...) However, there is a whole category of apps that have not materialized for Linux. What are they?
PRO AUDIO APPS.
There is no native Linux Digital Audio Workstation software available. Nothing that is anywhere near the caliber of Sonic Foundry's Vegas or Digidesign's ProTools. There are stereo audio
If Wine, WineX, ReWind or Grandma's Chicken Feet (I don't care, I'm not picky about licenses or product names) could get Sonic Foundry products to run, and run predictably and solidly, under Linux I would be able to convert our audio production machine from Windows to Linux. That would mean one less Windows box, one more Linux box.
Linux still needs polishing. Linux still needs to be able to install predictably (My friend Chad ironed out my optical drive problems on one of my Linux boxen...apparently depmod didn't do everything it should have during the Red Hat 7.2 install) and it still has tons of usability problems. However, it is headed in the right direction.
Windows, OTOH, is headed the wrong way...more complexity, more bloat, less functionality, an unruly codebase according to some informed reports, and of course tons of security problems no Ex Cathedra pronouncement by Bill Gates can fix. And there's that wee, small issue of licensing and Microsoft continuing to tighten the screws on that issue.
Until someone steps up to the plate and writes some serious audio apps for Linux, emulation or something that asserts it is not an emulator but the duck test says otherwise is the only hope I have. And any progress along those lines will be cheered. In the words of Daria Morgendorffer, "Go. Go. Kick butt."
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
I'm running a Celeron Coppermine 900 with an Abit VH6T board, and a cheapo C-Media 8738 with no extras. The sound is better than in Win98 by far. When I would minimize windows in Win98, the card would lag, and the music would actually slow down. Since I loaded Linux on the same machine, I've had no problems. It's working great! I'm playing music on an old SB16 with XMMS, and have the game audio functioning under the C-media card. It's freaking fantastic! Also glad to see Transgaming provided a Slackware package! W0ot!