Review of New Sony Clie PEG-NR70

Bryce writes "Here is a detailed review of the new Sony Clie PEG-NR70." Kurt the Pope picked one of these up in Japan and I have to say that it is an amazing PDA. Brilliant screen, and that cool flip open design with a mini keyboard. When I can get one that speaks English, it could be my next PDA (my iPaq died!)

Comments

Text of Article

[Krieger]

Given how long most of these sites seem to hold up to a /.ing.. Here's the text.

AsiaGadgets
May 08, 2002
Review: Sony Clie PEG-NR70 Handheld

Sony Clie NR70 HandheldSony's latest Clie is a radical and welcome departure from the traditional design of the handheld PDA. Introducing innovations that have never been seen before on a Palm OS based device, the Clie PEG-NR70 and its digital camera bearing cousin NR70V have generated a flurry of excitement among PDA aficionados. This hands-on review takes a first look at what all the buzz is about.

Unique Form Factor

The most easily recognized innovation is the folding "clam shell" form factor. This design choice parallels the progression of mobile phone design in Japan, where ever-larger color LCD screens left little room for number keys that human fingers could comfortably press. In the pursuit of more surface real estate, Japanese mobile phone manufacturers decided to risk the stigma associated with flip phone designs -- a stigma largely caused by Motorola's unattractive and dated models -- by splitting the phone into two halves: an LCD screen on the upper half and a keypad on the lower half. These two halves are thin enough that folding the phone results in a thickness that is still thinner than most mobile phones sold in Europe and the U.S.

PDAs have always had large screens, so when Sony decided to add a keyboard, there was no choice but to follow a similar design philosophy. The NR70 has two very thin folding halves, with an LCD screen and keyboard on the upper and lower halves, respectively. The thickness of this Clie, when closed, feels about the same as a Palm III. But the real innovation is the ability to swivel the screen 180 degrees and fold it over the other half, morphing the device into the handheld form factor that most people are accustomed to using with a stylus. These two modes can be thought of as "keyboard input mode" and "stylus input mode."

Larger Screen Swivels 180 Degrees

The color LCD screen, like those found on previous iterations of the Clie, is a joy to look at. The high resolution screen is bright, text and graphics are sharp, and the 65,536 colors are as vibrant as one can expect from a handheld. But that's not why so many people are excited about the NR70.

Another major innovation Sony introduced for this model, the 320-by-480 pixel 16-bit color screen, is perhaps the most significant. For years, Palm devices have been plagued by an immutable silk-screened input area that occupies valuable screen real estate, while competing devices feature larger displays with less wasted space. Sony's new Clie is the first Palm-based handheld to nix the permanent silk-screened input area in favor of a software-based area displayed at the bottom of the new, larger LCD screen.

You might think that the apps on the NR70 would be lining up to take advantage of this newly liberated screen real estate. Unfortunately, you would be wrong. It appears that there is only a single application, the built-in image viewer, that can temporarily hide the input area and use the entire screen. Although it would be great to be able to use the entire vertical screen length to view calendars, memos, e-books, and other application data, this is not yet possible on this Clie, mostly likely due to limitations inherent in version 4.1 of the Palm OS. While there are no guarantees, hopefully a subsequent update to the underlying software will enable more applications to utilize the entire screen.

Integrated Keyboard

The QWERTY-style keyboard is a boon even to those who have become proficient at stylus entry via the Graffiti input system. Much like the RIM Blackberry communications device, the keyboard on the NR70 is most easily used with two thumbs. Using just these two digits, text input via the keyboard was surprisingly easy and quick. Despite years of experience with Graffiti input, I soon preferred text entry via the keyboard to pecking away at the screen with the stylus.

Sony Clie NR70 KeyboardThe keyboard has four modifier keys on the left side: Shift, Control, Function, and Alt. The Function key is used to enter numbers, which are located along the top row of the alphabet letter keys. Entering numbers this way was a bit cumbersome but not as difficult as one might expect. Symbols, on the other hand, are scattered among the remaining letter keys and can be difficult to locate quickly. Thankfully, common punctuation characters such as the comma and period have their own keys.

I did find one significant annoyance, however, when using the keyboard to enter contact data. Sony/Palm made it too difficult to use the keyboard to move from one field to another. The tab key would seem like the most intuitive method, but this simply inserts a tab character into the field. (Somebody please explain to me the purpose of entering tabs into contact fields. Good reasons for doing this are completely eluding me.) Not being the type to read instruction manuals, I unsuccessfully tried every possible combination of modifier keys along with the arrow keys, return key, and even the jog dial. I had to put down the Clie and vent my frustrations via an hour of indescriminate bedlam before I was able to clear my mind, pick the NR70 back up, and discover that control-tab and shift-control-tab are the magic ingredients. However, hitting control-tab with just the left thumb requires too much hand contorting, and using two thumbs is even harder due to the size and placement of these keys. Eventually I decided that the best solution was to simply use my left index fingernail to manually place the cursor in the next field. If the developers out there are listening, I strongly urge them to at least allow for a "Tab key moves between fields" preference somewhere in a subsequent update to the software.

Other buttons on the Clie include Sony's signature Jog Dial that is used to scroll up and down, as well as to select the current item by pushing in the Jog. Also on the left side of the bottom half of the device is the Back button, which is used when the user wishes to cancel a Jog Dial operation. Rounding out the buttons on the left side is the Hold button, which seems to have little use other than in conjunction with the Audio Player application.

Faster Processor

The Clie NR70 is the first Palm OS device to sport the new 66MHz Motorola Dragonball Super VZ. Twice as fast as other handhelds powered by the Palm OS, this processor made the NR70 feel much snappier than competing Palm and Handspring devices. While not as fast as processors found in other handheld platform designs, this CPU allows the NR70 to perform responsively while yielding longer battery life than handhelds with faster processors.

Software Graffiti

Software Graffiti Input AreaSeveral welcome enhancements have been introduced to the no-longer-static input area, although it is unclear whether these improvements were made by Sony, Palm, or collaboration between the two companies. The most notable enhancement is visual feedback when using the stylus to draw on the input area. A square dot appears when the stylus is first placed on one of the two input boxes, and a thin line follows the movement of the stylus until it is lifted from the screen. This helps visualize what is being entered in the input area and reduces errant stylus strokes.

Other handy aspects of the new input area include a clock in the lower right-hand corner, an LCD brightness control, battery power indicator, and an icon that appears when a Memory Stick has been inserted. There is also a button which brings up an on-screen keyboard inside the input area that is much more space efficient than having a separate window appear above the input area.

Synchronization

Initial attempts to HotSync the NR70 via the USB cradle with an Apple iBook running OS X 10.1.3 and Palm's recently released Palm Desktop 4.0 software produced a "serial port is currently in use" error, despite reports of successful HotSyncs between this configuration and previous Clie models. This error was particularly interesting since serial ports have not been featured on Macs for many years. Hopefully either Palm, Sony, or third parties such as MarkSpace will provide a solution to this problem.

Luckily, a spare Vaio running Win2k/J was handy to test the synchronization capabilities of the new Clie. The included installer CD for Win32 platforms provided an easy-to-follow bevy of installation options. I opted for a basic install, loading on only the HotSync, Palm Desktop, and SoundStage LE software. As expected, initiating the HotSync was as easy as pushing the button on the USB cradle, and the synchronization was fast and accurate.

The SoundStage LE software is included so that users may organize their music collections and transfer tracks to a Memory Stick inserted in the Clie. I found the interface rather cluttered, and the software indicated that there were no compatible devices attached. Rather than spending hours troubleshooting the problem, I simply used the HotSync Manager to transfer MP3 files to the Clie's Memory Stick, much in the same way one would install a Palm application. This worked smoothly, although the transfer took far more time than a 12 Mbps USB connection should take.

Clie Applications

The standard contact, calendar, to-do, and memo applications appear to function much as other Palm-based handhelds and thus don't merit much attention. The built-in MP3 player and graphic applications, on the other hand, are worth mentioning briefly.

AudioPlayer

The MP3 files that had been uploaded via the HotSync manager appeared immediately after launching the included AudioPlayer application. The interface is clean and well-designed, although the somewhat blocky and jagged interface widgets stand in stark contrast to the sharp input area below. Clearly, the AudioPlayer app hasn't yet been fully updated to take advantage of the high-resolution screen. There are three visualization modes, which of course serve little purpose other than to elicit "Wow, cool!" reactions from onlookers. The sound quality through the included earbud headphones was clear with good dynamic range, and the wired remote control between the Clie and the earphones provided convenient operation of the AudioPlayer while the NR70 is folded and placed in a pocket, purse, or backpack. Closing the lid automatically shuts off the LCD screen in order to conserve battery power and also prevents unwanted accidental key presses from interrupting the music. Turning on the "Hold" button will achieve the same effect even when the Clie is open and unfolded.

Sony Clie AudioPlayer

The inability to listen to music while reading email or composing memos was the only bone I had to pick with AudioPlayer. Perhaps there is a solution that enables this type of multitasking, but I couldn't seem to figure out how. While again this is most likely a problem inherent in the underlying Palm OS, it would be nice if this limitation were lifted in a future software update.

The biggest surprise came when I accidentally removed the remote control and earphones while a track was still playing. While Blink182 tracks may not be the best way to judge audio speaker quality, I was nonetheless impressed with the sound coming out of the tiny opening in the back of the 3/8"-thick bottom half of the NR70. Given how thin the enclosure is, getting audio quality akin to decent AM radio is nothing to shake a stick at. So provided you don't need very high audio volume, load up your NR70 with tunes and leave your boom box behind the next time you head out to the beach or a BBQ.

CLIE Paint, PG Pocket, PhotoStand, and gMovie

The Clie Paint application, while no Photoshop, is a handy tool for creating simple sketches and doodles as well as for editing/annotating photos that have been HotSync'ed into the NR70. The PG Pocket and PhotoStand applications appear to be mainly for use with the digital camera built into the NR70's cousin, the NR70V, so these applications were looked at only perfunctorily. (The NR70V was not yet available for review at the time this article was prepared.) Both applications seem well developed and useful for organizing and displaying digital photos. Sony's gMovie is, predictably, a movie viewing application for video files transferred to the Clie's Memory Stick. This application couldn't be tested in time for this review, so perhaps one of our readers will provide feedback on this application by using the Comments link at the bottom of this article.

Final Thoughts

Sony's latest entry into the handheld market offers radical innovations and raises the bar for both Palm and Handspring. The NR70's folding design, integrated keyboard, and Software Graffiti input area combine to form the most significant advancement in handheld engineering since Apple gave birth to the PDA market many years ago. Add wireless connectivity via the Memory Stick expansion slot, and you may soon find your notebook, MP3 player, and digital camera collecting dust in the corner.
Posted by Sparky at May 08, 2002 12:29 AM

Re:Text of Article

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony's new Clie is the first Palm-based handheld to nix the permanent silk-screened input area in favor of a software-based area displayed at the bottom of the new, larger LCD screen.

Uhh... not it's not. The HandEra has the exact same feature, and hopefully all future Palms will have it.

It's good to see SOMEONE take charge of innovation with the PalmOS, but they still have ways to go to catch up with the PocketPC's. Hey Microsoft, competition is a good thing!

Re:Text of Article

[rosewood]

Repeate after me

Palm Pilot != a POCKET PC (not Pocket Pc (tm) which is a POCKET PC)

Palm == Datebook, Calender, Notes, and Tasks -- everything else is a plesent EXTRA

POCKET PC == A PC in your POCKET! If I wanted to have a PC with me everywhere, Id get a damn laptop. If I want a better datebook, which i did, I got my palm pilot.

Re:Text of Article

[Anonymous Coward]

You might think that the apps on the NR70 would be lining up to take advantage of this newly liberated screen real estate. Unfortunately, you would be wrong.

According toa review I read, the HandEra overcame this limitation, too. Applications, at least the built in ones, automatically resize as the handwriting recognition area is activated and deactivated.

Re:Text of Article

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason they didn't do this is because the way HandEra did it, it crashes the machine so much it's not funny.

Re:Text of Article

[i0lanthe]

Sony's new Clie is the first Palm-based handheld to nix the permanent silk-screened input area in favor of a software-based area displayed at the bottom of the new, larger LCD screen.

Uhh... not it's not. The HandEra has the exact same feature, and hopefully all future Palms will have it.

...and hopefully with an API that is both (1) nice and (2) standardized, since applications do have to be modified by their authors to take advantage of extra screen space, and having the hardware support for it is not much use to purchasers if no apps actually use it or if an app has to be modified in five different ways to work on five different companies' PalmOS devices (in which case it will probably have been modified to work on one or two and not the one you were hoping for).

I heard from folks who have programmed with both the HandEra API and the 320x320 Sony API, that the HandEra one was actually the more pleasant of the two. (I've only looked at the HandEra documentation, myself, so I dunno what the old Sony API is like or whether this one uses the same one.) I'd settle for "not so nice" as long as I got to have "standardized", but it would still be better to have both attributes.

And I have to say it's really sad that, from what reviewers have reported, this new Sony ships with only one application that takes advantage of the new space. Makes this third-party developer think "if they're not going to bother supporting their own 'new' hardware features, well heck, why should I."

Motorola Unattractive??

[Julius X]

From the article:

The most easily recognized innovation is the folding "clam shell" form factor. This design choice parallels the progression of mobile phone design in Japan, where ever-larger color LCD screens left little room for number keys that human fingers could comfortably press. In the pursuit of more surface real estate, Japanese mobile phone manufacturers decided to risk the stigma associated with flip phone designs -- a stigma largely caused by Motorola's unattractive and dated models

Excuse me? I would not call products like the StarTAC or V60 unattractive. Nor would I call them "dated". It seems to me that Motorola Cell phones are made for people who want to use their cell phones for exactly that purpose---to talk to people. I'll tell you this...my StarTAC 7868 is a hell of a lot more comfortable than any Nokia brick I've ever seen.

Re:Motorola Unattractive??

[Anonymous Coward]

Hardly inovative since Psion were doing this 10 years ago with the series 3

Re:Motorola Unattractive??

[t--f-c]

Granted looks are totally a matter of personal opinion but you must admit a bit that the most common clamshell design in the U.S. is the clunky StarTac, now compare the LED based screen and large battery of that phone to a Japanese i-mode phone http://k-tai.impress.co.jp/cda/parts/image_for_lin k/0,,28850-9315-1-1,00.html and relatively speaking they are somewhat a leap in technology...

Re:Motorola Unattractive??

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had 7868 and I hated it myself. Like all Motorola phones, it just feels flimsy, and the keys are quite uncomfortable. My current phone, a Kyocera, at least has decent size buttons. Motorola has a lot to learn about designing a user interface, too. These are all just personal opinions, mind you.

Oh, by the way. When the article says "Japanese mobile phone manufacturers", they don't mean Nokia, which is a European (more specifically Finnish) cell phone manufacturer.

Re:Motorola Unattractive??

[forgoil]

Not to be overly negative, but my 8210 is very far from a brick, nor clumsy. It's really nice and small, and didn't look and sound like a toy (like the few motorolas I've used). In Europe you hardly see Motorolas, and the last time I visited the states (Januray/February this year) I didn't find any of the latest models from Nokia nor Ericsson there.

Estetically pleasing is hard to measure, but look at which phones sell the best and you get an idea of who made the right decision.

Re:Motorola Unattractive??

[Surlyboi]

Compared to most of the Nokias, yes, the Motorolas
are more attractive, (especially the v60 you
mentioned) The problem is, as someone else has
already said, the author wasn't comparing those.

The author was comparing Motorola's designs to the
designs prevalent in Japan. And yes, there, even the
v60 looks dated. The newer designs in Japan make
even the flashiest Motorolas look rather lackluster.

Re:Motorola Unattractive??

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, i have a mot ... it's not a folding phone, and so actually looks ok... :)

However, mot sux when it comes to usability (not as bad as siemens, mind you). i give motorola very few points for product design, though.

Nokia are quite nice ... much nicer than mot, sorry to say ... the only thing i like about my phone is that the screen glows blue instead of that sickly green.

must also note that it is rather durable; mine's been through hell ... but so has my friend's nokia.

Re:Motorola Unattractive??

[John Ineson]

Excuse me? I would not call products like the StarTAC or V60 unattractive. Nor would I call them "dated".

Probably because you're in the US. I'm in the UK and I haven't seen a StarTAC in years. I'd imagine they're bona fide antiques in Japan.

I'll tell you this...my StarTAC 7868 is a hell of a lot more comfortable than any Nokia brick I've ever seen.

Until you put it in your pocket, and the external aerial stabs you in the groin. I'll keep my 8210, thanks.

Re:Motorola Unattractive??

[HaggiZ]

Just because it's more comfortable, doesn't make it more attractive. You try to defend your point by telling how good the phone is in another area. The article is 100% correct, the phone is ugly and looks like a kids toy. Yes they are very good at what they do.... but they aren't anywhere as near as attractive as most of the nokia unveilings, and some of the ericssons.

Re:Motorola Unattractive??

[qrys]

Cell phones are all about style. I mean, come on you're only talking on it a few hours (if that) a day. But you're carrying it around with you all day.

For the pimpin' style yous gotta get a Nokia. Those old-school Motorola's are seriously ugly.

(Except the freakin screens kept breaking on my 8290s).

where is the wireless?

[abe1x]

Ok, this gadget looks beautiful, I want one, I want one, but no wait... Where the f is the wireless? I've never quite got the usefulness of palms that don't connect to the rest of the world. With that keyboard and screen I can do a lot of work, too bad I have to get to an office to actually get it anywhere. There isn't even any bluetooth for it yet. Only option is to carry around a phone and connection cable (or maybe you need two...) So close but so far from the ideal liberating gadget... Going to stick with my old Kyocera 6035 till the Sprint Treo comes out with the 3G launch...

I'm so sorry.

[Russ Nelson]

Your iPAQ died? I'm so sorry to hear of your recent loss. I dropped my ipaq screen-down and now have a very pretty classic shattered glass pattern on my screen.

But the real question is: Can the Clie be reflashed with a real operating system?
-russ

Re:I'm so sorry.

[Anonymous Coward]

yes, it will be updateable to Palm OS 5, once it's released.

Re:I'm so sorry.

[john82]

You're trolling Russ. If you want to try and read a Word doc on your iPaq go right ahead. Just gives me headaches.

There are two predominant PDA platforms for a reason: there is a significant split in the user community over the purpose of a PDA.

On the other hand, if you meant will it run DOS, please accept my apologies.

Re:I'm so sorry.

[Anonymous Coward]

What? Do you mean Linux? I love my Zaurus.

Re:I'm so sorry.

[Kunta Kinte]

I think the better question is, can the CLIE be refitted with a real processor.

If you're really want a palmOS device, instead of that 66MHz crap, I'd wait for the strongArm 206MHz based palms that are supposed to come out soon ( later this year??? )

I know MHz isn't everything, but come on. 66MHz vs. 206MHz at the same price!!!

Re:I'm so sorry.

[Russ Nelson]

My iPAQ only has 64MB of ram. I know of no Word document which will fit in that little memory.
-russ

English Version is Available.

[A Commentor]

I received a new NR70(English Version) on Monday. I had pre-ordered it, but according to Sony's Site, the NR70 (no camera) is available now, if you want the NR70V (with camera) it should be available 'On or before 5/18/2002'

Shameless plug... If you plan to buy it (or any other Sony products), you could got to my awesome site to buy stuff and click on the Sony banner they buy it ;-)

Re:English Version is Available.

[cmoney]

And CompUSA had the no camera version in stock in NJ last time I checked.

Re:English Version is Available.

[Anonymous Coward]

I was at Fry's last night. They are selling the one with the camera.

true test of geekdom

[NeoSkandranon]

The question is, how many /.ers are reading that review and thinking "66Mhz, wow i was using one of those just [time] ago"

For me it's been about two weeks, at dad's office, but i have a pair of defunct 66's around here somewhere

Re:true test of geekdom

[Fjord]

A few months for me. I helped set up a friend's computer that he got for free. DX2/66

Where's the wireless?

[john82]

It's amazing to me that with all the design and features that went into this product, Sony left out wireless. Considering the advanced telco services in Japan, Sony's reputation for using the latest technology for their products, and the price of this puppy ($600), I expected that wireless would be a given. Check ZDnet for another review.

Re:Where's the wireless?

[t--f-c]

Bluetooth memorystick is available ( http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/PEG/CLIEGEAR/ ) for about US$150. It is not available in the U.S. yet but you can have it imported by a place like ( http://shop.conics.net/ ) if you ask him nicely he seems willing to help.

Re:Where's the wireless?

[SamTheButcher]

After reading the ZDNet review, I'll probably go iPod. Without wireless, the Sony device just a really slick PDA. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have one of these than a Treo or any Palm device, but for what I need (address book, MP3 player) the iPod is just fine, plus double (triple?) as a large Firewire HD, for about the same price.

Re:Where's the wireless?

[Anonymous Coward]

iPOD is weak for a PDA, but strong for an MP# player/storage device. Make your your expectations are set right before buying.

Brian
www.bargainpda.com

Re:Where's the wireless?

[SamTheButcher]

Thanks for the tip. That's pretty much my expectations, though. Something to store phone#s/addresses etc. I can input at my desktop, I rarely add addresses while on the go. I currently have a Newton MP 2000 (I wish it was still updated/supported, but it's time to move into the '00's) and don't do that much updating. And thinking about it, I rarely use it anyway, so the iPod might just be the perfect thing, especially if I end up getting a laptop, which is the current plan. :)

Re:Where's the wireless?

[barc0001]

Well, if that's all you would ever use a PDA for, then the iPod might not be a bad idea. However, that's all I ever thought I'd use a PDA for when I participated in a beta test of some Palm software for a company I used to work for. At the end of it I was loading up all sorts of PalmOS apps to try them out. 5 years later, I have a Visor Deluxe that I use for addresses, tracking time on client projects, reading ebooks, I have maps of 2 cities I frequent on it, a bunch of little games (including a great chess game), a graphics drawing program, a project management program, and a database program.
I guess my point is, I don't know how many people buy PDAs for the features listed on the side of the box, but that's only about 5% of the total experience, and if that's the only criteria you use to make your decision, than it's not the whole picture.

Re:Where's the wireless?

[anotherCoder]

It's amazing to me that with all the design and features that went into this product, Sony left out wireless.

Sony also sells a Bluetooth memory stick for the Clie.

Re:Where's the wireless?

[SamTheButcher]

I know, I did the same with my Newton, and that's why I bought my wife a Visor, so she could play solitaire and I could play with my Newton.

Wait, that didn't come out right. :)

But like I said, you're right about using it for more than "the features listed on the side of the box". I guess I'm just trying to justify a need for the iPod other than it's just a f'ing cool MP3 player/toy. ;) And at the same time not have to buy yet *another* device. But, I guess for the same price as the Sony device I could get an iPod and a Visor.

ipaq death

[josh rhp]

response to -"(my iPaq died!) "

my ipaq recently died also, it won't recharge any more and i have no idea what the problem is...i am looking in to sending it back to compaw as it is barely five months old....anybody else have any experience with the same problem and can offer any advice?

Re:ipaq death

[jwriney]

If you let it go any significant period of time between recharges (i.e. greater than a week or two), the battery gets screwed up. I left my ipaq in a drawer for a month, came back, and it was shot. Do a google search for "ipaq battery problems".

--riney

Re:ipaq death

[Anonymous Coward]

iPaqs die a lot. Several of my friends have iPaqs, and they have all died or failed at some point. I never had a problem with my Handspring or my Zaurus, although the Zaurus is only a month old. I haven't heard of any problems with the developer model, though, which has been out much longer.

Re:ipaq death

[Nebrie]

This will happen to any PDA. A typical lithium battery drains itself in a month.

Re:where is the wireless? Yes there is bluetooth

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a bluetooth memory stick that works perfectly with connecting to a bluetooth phone. So there is your wireless.

-Anonymous Howard

better review

[mliu]

If you're interested in a far more detailed review from a site that is focussed on nothing besides Palm hardware (so they should know what they are talking about) go to here.

As an additional bonus they already have a fairly burgeoning discussion from a buncha PDA geeks, who likewise really know what they're talking about for the most part (though the site has a real problem with trolls).

Incidentally, if you would like one that is in English Mr. Taco, you could buy them practically anywhere these days as I understand. This is a logical, if hideously overpriced place to start. At the rate that yen is converting to dollars these days, it's actually cheaper to buy a Japanese model and import it to the US than buy it through the curiously overpriced US outlets. I saw a N70V for 4-something US dollars at my local electronics etailer here in Japan, without doing any shopping around at all.

Re:better review

[NeoSkandranon]

4-something?

Y'mean $4.xx, $4x.xx, or $4xx.xx ?

Re:better review

[mliu]

Sorry, figured it would be obvious. Heh, prices on electronics are good in Japan, but not THAT good (didn't you read that recent piece on Akihabara shopping?).

I think the equivalent dollar figure I saw on the N70V was around $440 US as I recall.

Nitpick...

[gravelpup]

Sony's new Clie is the first Palm-based handheld to nix the permanent silk-screened input area in favor of a software-based area displayed at the bottom of the new, larger LCD screen.

Handera beat them to it about a year ago.

Regardless, I think this will be my next PDA, as soon as Best Buy has another one of their 20% off sales.

Re:Nitpick...

[Anonymous Coward]

So did Samsung (SPH-I300).

Re:Nitpick...

[zaren]

And of course, there's always Apple's Newton series, which was doing this four years ago...

I'd like to know if this new input area can have specific apps placed in it, like on my Newt - I took out a few of their apps that I'd never used, and placed my dialup/telnet app and docking app in their place. I'd also like to see a picture of this new Clie, but the image on the site seems to be busted.

-----
Is Darwin an evolutionary OS?

CLIE

[daviddennis]

I have the predecessor to this model, so I have a few comments.

The movie player works fine, although the only movie I loaded into it was a totally baffling promotion for the AIBO. A friend of mine said "What's that?" when I played it for her. She thought that if it was advertising, it needed some SERIOUS re-working.

Of course the movie player isn't terribly useful due to the low memory capacity of the device (16mb if my memory serves). I think the minute or so long AIBO movie was about a megabyte. I'd count the movie player as a curiosity and nothing more.

The high-resolution display is simply fantastic. I gather from the review that this is essentially the same display, but with added resolution on the bottom, where the permanently set up input area is on mine.

All it takes to sell the CLIE over its Palm competition is one look at that display. The CLIE also has a "real metal" feel which looks conspicuously high-quality compared to the plasticky Palm and Handspring models.

I have no doubt at all that the keyboard would really help make this unit easier to use. I am okay at Graffiti, but still find the motions required to write akward. This might be because I've used a keyboard for my entire life, though; regular handwriting is just as annoying for me.

All in all, this is a real wake-up call for Palm, which has undeniably been caught napping. I look forward to giving this device a try at my local Fry's soon.

D

Re:CLIE

[A Commentor]

Of course the movie player isn't terribly useful due to the low memory capacity of the device (16mb if my memory serves). I think the minute or so long AIBO movie was about a megabyte. I'd count the movie player as a curiosity and nothing more.

The Aibo clip provided with the NR70 must have been longer(I think it was 3-5M)... BUT
that is why all the Sony Clies have a memory stick slots... The movies are meant to be stored on the memory stick not in the PDA's memory.

Re:CLIE

[daviddennis]

Well, yes, but even memory sticks only go up to 128mb, which isn't enough for much in the way of video.

D

It's available

[costas]

I played with one in an Atlanta CompUSA just this past Saturday. It's very, very nice, but I will be waiting for the new XScale PPCs before I upgrade from my Vx...

Re:It's available

[mliu]

Alternatively, you could also consider the ARM based OS-5 Palm devices that will be coming out in the near future (less than half a year) if you like. Not to be plugging Palm or anything, I like PPC's too, and people have their preferences, but from the fact that you are currently using a Vx I figured you might want to stay with Palm OS. They also will have similar speed ranges and what not, plus with the added bonus (or detraction, depending on your point of view) that they run Palm OS. This will mean that you can migrate any programs you have on your Vx over (besides hacks) without any problems.

You can read the story at Palm Infocenter. According to the article, processors in the Palm OS ready programs currently range at 18MHz to 1GHz and OS 5 should be released in June. So basically, whatever floats your boat. If you're only changing to PPC reluctantly you might wanna consider sitting tight a couple months, especially if your need for a new handheld isn't great.

Re:It's available

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the link to the Palm Infocenter article. This article states:

On the other hand, code that has been recompiled for ARM-based chips is 61 times faster on a 200MHz ARM processor compared to a 33MHz Dragonball one.

Could this be correct? It suggests that the ARM is 10 times more efficient than the Dragonball per clock cycle. How can this be?

ARM based palm pda's

[HoaryCripple]

Palm os 5 supports the ARM processor. When are the ARM based, Palm powered pda's coming out? I've been waiting around for a while now for news about this, but can't seem to find much. I love the usability of the Palm design, but medical software just crawls on the Dragonball processors. Also, a standard compactflash slot would be nice...But Sony would never do that.

Re:ARM based palm pda's

[Anonymous Coward]

They are supposed to be due in late summer, early Fall. Apparently Palm will be releasing the final Palm OS 5 in June to Palm manufacturers, and presumably most of them already have devices in the works.

-Anonymous Howard

Taco had an iPaq?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't those things run WinCE?

Re:Taco had an iPaq?

[smart.id]

You can get them to run Linux.

Designs and Obsolescene

[Krieger]

It surprises me a little that all these companies are coming out with these designs so late in the term of the support of the current processor. Given the move to ARM architecture you would think they would want to wait a little bit.

However feature-wise it is starting to integrate in the right direction. The onscreen text-area makes so much sense it surprises me that more people haven't done it (yes Handera, but they aren't as mainstream as Palm, Sony, and Handspring). The larger amounts of RAM for both the flash and for apps and storage make these much more attractive then the other makers.

If only Sony's support for these wasn't so shoddy they are pretty clearly offering one of the technologically best Palm platforms right now. If I hadn't just bought a different one I would be buying one of these.

Sony is also in contents

[Aceticon]

Slashdot never ceases to amaze me
- On one side there's all the rage about DCMA and media business hurting the consumer.
- On the other side there's the "oh look at this nice toy from Sony [also a media business], it's sooooo cool - i must have one of these" sort of articles.

With all the current battle between content-producers and consumers, and since Sony is also a content-producer, i've completly stoped buying Sony products.

Also Sony products usually include lotsa "features" whose only purpose is to "protect (Sony's) intelectual property" in the process hurting the consumers or at the very least causing needless problems (macrovision anyone).

cool, but where is the phone?

[edstromp]

The flip open lid is certainly cool for a palm device, but where is the cell phone? My next upgrade (from my still working Palm III) will be nothing short of a combination PDA and Cell. They are still working on coming up with a good form for the combination, but I think Sony has hit on something when they add in the cell portion.

As for the PocketPC / iPaq stuff... I used one for about a week. It certainly had some nice features, but all in all, none of it was really that cool unless you had 802.11b. At which point, you could just as easily get a laptop for the price.

My prediction: Palm + Cell / Java will be one platform.
PocketPC will go away and super small, full feature laptop pc's will be the new thing.

Re:cool, but where is the phone?

[mliu]

As cool as those combo PDA phones are, if you stop and consider for a moment you'd realize that the sheer geek factor of those is off the charts. There are 3 demographics such phones would target:
the practical businessman
the trendy student
the gee-whiz technogeek

Forget the average businessman, do you think the average fashion conscious teen would consider for a second holding a PDA sized phone up to their head and talking into to it? Half the appeal of cellular phones comes from their "cool" factor, and these days smaller is better seems to be the significant trend in phones. Frankly I can't see those combination PDA phones achieving any market penetration outside of the geek market. If the wireless is only for data, that's one thing, but you can't expect people to talk into these things.

For my money, bluetooth PDA's paired with small, sleek cellular phones is where it's going to be at. You got a phone when you need a phone, and a PDA when you need a PDA, and not a gainly unsightly mess when you need either.

Re:cool, but where is the phone?

[mjolnir_]

Biz market is easy: businesspeople want simplicity and efficiency. That means things like not having to worry about getting the phone numbers from your PDA or Outlook address book into your phone without retyping them all -- this is what the Treo is going after.

Not to mention that a real road warrior, a 200 day-on-the-road kind of person, will always appreciate one less thing to pack: one less cable, one less power adapter, etc.

Are they unsexy? Yep. But so were cell phones back in the day, speaking of truly ugly Motorolas. But people bought them, used them, and pushed their development forward. Same will happen with the combos, until a good phone/PDA is as sleek as this Sony Clie is.

Now I just need 802.11 in the same unit and I'll be happy.

-mj

Re:cool, but where is the phone?

[mliu]

I dunno about that. Of course it depends on the businessman, but as I understand it, maintaining a certain image is very much a part of the job of most businessmen. To a certain extent it doesn't matter how well things they use perform, they just have to impress the people at the meetings and clients when you pull them out.

So it's not just simplicity and efficiency, but simplicity, efficiency, and image. And these PDA phones get killed on that last one. Or at least this is the story that I've heard about the way businessmen work, repeated many atime. Could it be just a case where conventional wisdom is a little off from reality?

PS 802.11 really sucks the juice. Modern PDA's with color screens and fast processors have bad enough battery lives as it is (just look at this one). Bluetooth really seems like a more sensible choice in this arena.

Re:cool, but where is the phone?

[Big_Breaker]

Most of the PDA/Cell combos out now encourage or require you to use a bud style ear piece. In Europe EVERYONE uses those ear pieces. Form factor is less important than you think when the pda is tucked away in a pocket.

Mr. Money Bags

[Anonymous Coward]

"I've never quite got the usefulness of palms that don't connect to the rest of the world."

I've never quite gotten paying $30 a month to get email in your palm. I suppose for the idle rich or something. If the cost was $1 a month, then I'd consider it. But perhaps you'd be better off taking that money you spend on wireless access and investing it.

peg-nr70 images

[InnereNacht]

Some images (and fun Japanese text!) can be seen here:

http://www.sony.jp/CorporateCruise/Press/200203/ 02 -0311B/

Not karma whoring.. If I was, I'd take the effort to make that a link.

Neat looking toy!

Sony Clie

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine a beowulf cluster of these!

Play with it at Sony Store on Madison in Manhattan

[Anonymous Coward]

The have a display model you can pick up and play with at the Sony Style store in Manhattan. I was passing by on Saturday, and polayed with it. Although it is slightly longer than your traditional handheld, it is *very* slick and beautiful. It feels sturdy, and the swivel action doesnt feel grainy. It was retailing at $499.99, which is bit pricey, but has great features.
One of the cooler features is the improved "Graffiti" area, where writing with the stylus leaves a trail! Now you can get feedback on the stroke you wrote exactly!
I think it's well worth it.

Motorola Quality

[ackthpt]

Some may differ on my view, but of the two Motorola cell phones I've had, they're tough little phones, well engineered and manufactured. I'd like the idea of getting a PDA which would hold up well for a few years, after all shelling out $300+ for a PDA the least they could do is make it tough. My Sony laptop has taught me a valuable lesson if style over reliability, it's the last Sony laptop I'll ever buy. Two years old and the keyboard, mouse pad and battery are shot, and I think the modem is going next. Nice compact little unit, but not rugged.

Get the Zaurus

[druiid]

From the initial description it sounds like it's a Zaurus ripoff. If you want another PDA, I can recommend the Zaurus, don't know why you haven't thought about buying one of those to replace your IPaq.

Re:Get the Zaurus

[Nebrie]

Thats why you should try reading articles before posting to slashdot. It's not even close to being a Zaurus ripoff.

slashdotted... sony's site

[Giant Robot]

Here's some eyecandy of the new clie:

in japanese.

Sony Style Site

[ackthpt]

I get emails (since I bought a Sony laptop a couple years ago) from Sony now and then. Sony Style is a nice site to see what they have, but, oof, not the best prices.

Clie? Did they get a decent hardware upgrade??

[optisonic]

After looking at the article, it doesn't look like this model is much different.

I've been researching the handheld market very heavily in the past few weeks and there are not many good choices. All of the decent choices are NOT Palm OS or Linux. :(

I REALLY wanted a Zaurus 5500 because it has way more potential than any other unit I've seen. Unfortunately there is a significant lack of software that provides desktop functionality. Mail support is kinda weak and there of course is no terminal server client for us that have to manage both Windows and Linux servers. File compatibility is also weak on ALL handhelds that I have seen. This is one of the most important issues, especially in an office environment where you want to get work done and not have to convert to a non-standard (in most offices anyhow) format such as rtf instead of doc. None of them support embedding of images and objects yet but with the next round of PocketPC software, we will have support for this as well.

Until new hardware is released, PocketPC 2002 has the most useful features and the most commercial developer support. I don't have time to code apps myself as I already work 70+ hour weeks and can't spare anymore personal time.

There are only 2 handhelds that had features vs. cost that are acceptable.

Compaq 3870 (the one with INTEGRATED bluetooth)
Casio Casseopia E-200
Sharp Zaurus 5500

The Compaq is best because you don't have to use a slot to access the Internet from your unit. This alone is worth the purchase. No other unit has the same features, screen quality, and support (such as closing apps without having to "end task") in one unit.

The Casio is best for cost vs features if you don't want bluetooth. As I don't want to permanently use a slot for wireless connection (that could be used for memory etc), this won't work for me.

The Sharp feels the best, has a great display, a very helpful keyboard, and some very good apps. If they had included support to write and read ms office/pocket office documents, I would buy this one even without bluetooth. No bluetooth, no native file support, no Zaurus for me.

No matter which you choose, wireless is the ONLY way to use these things effectively (unless you are boring and don't use the Internet and network extensively like everyone I know does). To use wireless effectively, you MUST use a service such as LoudPC. Without it, you are severly limited.

Palm OS is crippled in comparison and the hardware can't handle the fun stuff that the 64mb PocketPC's can. Maybe a Clie for the kids would be fine, but it is not a professional worktool.

my 2p

-bj

Re:Clie? Did they get a decent hardware upgrade??

[Anonymous Coward]

You could put a BlueTooth transceiver in the Zaurus and still have a CF slot free.

http://bluetooth.weblogs.com/discuss/msgReader$3 75 ?mode=day

If you use devices like this forever (like me), someday you might even upgrade it to UWB or something. Try that with an iPAQ.

Re:Clie? Did they get a decent hardware upgrade??

[Anonymous Coward]

There's an open source Linux RDP client @ www.rdesktop.org

This might run on the Zaurus. There is also talk of a Java port (applet) in the mail threads on the site.

Re:Clie? Did they get a decent hardware upgrade??

[Toxxy]

"There are only 2 handhelds that had features vs. cost that are acceptable.

[1]Compaq 3870 (the one with INTEGRATED bluetooth)
[2]Casio Casseopia E-200
[3]Sharp Zaurus 5500"

Can any of them count? ;[

Re:Clie? Did they get a decent hardware upgrade??

[Kunta Kinte]

I have a zaurus. I like it :)

There is bluetooth for the zaurus http://www.handhelds.org/pipermail/handhelds/2002- January/002393.html
Check out the zaurus sourceforge project for more info.

I wonder how hard it would be to port rdesktop terminal services client ( http://www.rdesktop.org ) to embedix/qt. If you haven't used rdesktop, you *must* try it out. At any rate, can't you do terminal services from any browser? If opera doesn't work, there's KDE's konquerer for the zaurus.

There's a lot of software for the zaurus, check out http://zaurus.sourceforge.net/ and http://myzaurus.com/

The mail software can be replaced, although I think the current package works well.

Truth is, as a linux/java based PDA, the zaurus is the first sane PDA platform out there. I hope they push enough units to spark a trend, ( I've heard they're doing well )

Re:Clie? Did they get a decent hardware upgrade??

[shadow303]

The Zaurus comes with apps for handling word, excel, and powerpoint files. Although, I must admit that I never actually tested them to see how well the file filters work.

Re:Clie? Did they get a decent hardware upgrade??

[Kunta Kinte]

The Zaurus comes with apps for handling word, excel, and powerpoint files. Although, I must admit that I never actually tested them to see how well the file filters work.

The app is Hancom word, spreadsheet, presenter. Hancom is based of OpenOffice, which is *really* good with Office support. I have a zaurus in my hand right now, but to be honest, I've never had to use this.

One Hancom guy had an interview here on slashdot a few days ago, in which he mentioned this.

Re:Clie? Did they get a decent hardware upgrade??

[Anonymous Coward]

>Truth is, as a linux/java based PDA, the zaurus is
>the first sane PDA platform out there

No, you mean Psion.

Great product

[i_luv_linux]

This is a really cool product. But the stock market currently says that Palm is doomed. Palm should make great advancements in their Operating System, otherwise I don't think that they will stand a chance to Microsoft in the future. As the technology develops, pocket PC devices may be quite competitive in terms of portability and battery life which I believe is the number one reason behind the trend for Palm devices.

Linux may also be a good competitor in this area, but the flagship product of Linux, Sharp Zaurus, seems to be not so successful, if successful at all.

Re:Great product

[Kunta Kinte]

Linux may also be a good competitor in this area, but the flagship product of Linux, Sharp Zaurus, seems to be not so successful, if successful at all.

How did you figure that?

You should really try it out. I have a zaurus, I got one after finally going down to the store and playing with all the PDAs/Pocket PCs *in hand*.

My advice, go out there and try them first!. Don't just read reviews. From the reviews I was headset on the new CLIE, after I compared the units in hand, I left the store with a zaurus. A PDA is a very personal electronic device ( yeah, I know how that sounds :) ), you have to see for yourself.

WANTED: Gandalf wallpaper

[tps12]

Please excuse the slightly offtopic post, but speaking of new frontiers in handhelds, it struck me that soon PDA's will play host to all of the same kinds of customizations that PC enthusiasts inflict upon their boxen today.

To that end, I am trying to get a good wallpaper with Gandalf as portrayed by Sir Ian McKellen in the recent film adaptation of J.R.R. Tolkien's classic, The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of The Ring. His face would be just the thing to tie my Gnome and blackbox themes together, and, more on-topic, wouldn't look too bad in QT Embedded either! ;)

Preferably one where he is looking really stoned, pipe optional. Thx.

PalmInfocenter NR70V Review

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's a link to the very comprehensive PalmInfocenter review: http://www.palminfocenter.com/view_Story.asp?ID=34 11

I don't get it

[pauljlucas]

Is Grafitti-writing such an issue for many people? I do just fine with Grafitti alone so I don't care about a keyboard. Apparently, they doubled the size/thickness just to add it. Seems like a bad decision.

Re:I don't get it

[Anonymous Coward]

agreed. people complain about having to 'learn' it, which takes a whole 10 minutes. the other, more common, complaint is that it's unwieldy for larger quantities of text .. in that case get one of those keyboards which come in several varities now. i don't want to give away my graffiti to annoying blackberry-esque thumbboard. ugh.

DUST

[DooBall]

I wonder if Sony did anything to 'fix' their problem of dust getting under the backlight screen... Dust under screen over light = looks like dead pixels... My Sony Clie N760C is just getting owned by dust. And you only get one cleaning under warranty. =\

Some issues against this...

[theridersofrohan]

Note that this is probably going to sound as an anti-sony rant (and in some ways, it is) but bear with me.

Here are some issues against buying this:

PalmOS5 The new OS is coming out soon (Q4). It only supports ARM cpus. This machine has a dragonball (m68k derivative) cpu. Will you give $600 for this and not be able to upgrade it to palmOS 5? You will not be able to run ARM apps either...

Resolution support: Few apps support sony's 320x320 resolution (the one that older clies have). Very few support this one's. Sony seems to be flooding the market with new APIs when PalmOS 5 is going to tackle the screen size issue...

Low battery life. The battery life on this is extremely low (4 hours AFAIK? check palminfocenter.com)

Memory Stick. It's big (physical size), expensive, proprietary, and does not hold too much data. It locks you into an all exclusive and very expensive sony world. And don't forget the MagicGate sticks folks!

Sony's ATRAC3 (the lovely DRM-enabled music format)

Few peripherals. Palms, Visors, and even pocketpc enjoy a much greater variety of peripherals... A stowaway for your sony? A GPS module for your sony? Don't think so...

sorry for ranting :)

Re:Some issues against this...

[mkoenecke]

As a Clie owner (an "old" S300), thought I'd point out:

1) OS5, by all accounts, is expected to add no new features to OS4, but be designed for the ARM. Also, with the installed base of Palm-compatible devices and apps, I really doubt creativity in the pre-OS 5 arena will go away very soon.

2) The screen size issue, from what I've read, is an application issue, fairly easily resolved, even under OS 4.

3) Low battery life is an issue with any color device. If you want better battery life, get mono.

4) Memory sticks aren't big and are only slightly more expensive than (e.g.) CF. They are proprietary, which is indeed a strike against. Not hold too much data? I've got a 128 MB one in my Clie as we speak, which can be had for under $90. 256 should be coming out soon. Not much of a data issue; if you want to carry tons of MP3 albums, get a dedicated player.

5) ATRAC3 is not an issue; it's only used with Sony's software. All you have to do is copy MP3's to the memory stick and it plays them just fine.

6) True on the peripherals, but Sonys are relatively new to the market. More and more are appearing, but if you really need a GPS right now, early Clie adoption isn't for you.

As for me, I really want an NR-70V. The V part will be fun (though, of course, not for serious photography).

Re:Some issues against this...

[Wraithlyn]

Memory Stick. It's big (physical size), expensive, proprietary, and does not hold too much data.

Big?? You could lose one of these in a pack of gum. A sneeze could carry it away. I've seen people with bigger fingernails. What exactly is small?

Expensive, and low data storage? I just ordered a 128MB stick for US $70 for my digital camera (DSC-P50, it rocks). Nearly 2MB per dollar for NV RAM? Pretty damn reasonable if you ask me.

Proprietary? Unfortunately yes. But at least they're hawking something GOOD. And yes, SmartGate is indeed worrisome, luckily my camera doesn't support SmartGate :)

However, I want to make a point that Sony are not total proprietary bastards. My DSC-P50 camera takes Sony's InfoLithium battery pack, but it ALSO takes standard AA size batteries, which means it can take NiMH rechargables, which kick ass. Kudos to Sony for not locking the P50 into a proprietary power source, which they could've easily done.

Re:Some issues against this...

[theridersofrohan]

Hi, thanks for the reply

1) PalmOS 5 will not add many things true. But: It will standardise apis (such as the resolution API), and allow a whole new class of ARM applications to run. The CLIE won't be able to run those

2)The screen size is an application issue. It's just that not many applications support the new resolution. It is hoped that Palmos5 will include an api to handle that

3) Battery life: It's not true that colour devices have bad battery life. I've never run out of battery on my palm m130. The palm m505 has a _lot_ of hours of battery life as well

. Sony has a bad record when it comes to battery life

4) Memory sticks are big. Compared to MMC/SD cards they are. Compared to SM/CF they are longer and also smaller. Plus they _are_ more expensive. For the same price you got a 128MS, you can get a 256MB compact flash card! And don't forget that you can get CF (albeit type II) cards at up to 1 GB... And there are more CF periferals...

5) True, the CLIE can play MP3s. It's just that by getting a clie you add to the statistics of people that "have access to" ATRAC3 format and fund those that develop this...

Thanks!

Re:Some issues against this...

[hanmer]

I don't think you'll need the Stowaway keyboard with this Clie, given its built-in keyboard. But I completely agree with the OS and resolution comments.

Why would you buy anything over $100 at this point? Do we know or can we guess when OS5 devices will come out? Am I wrong to expect that Clie (and m515) prices will drop at that point? I am seriously jonesing for an m515 but even I can wait until summer (well, maybe).

Re:Some issues against this...

[DivideByZero]

1) OS5, by all accounts, is expected to add no new features to OS4, but be designed for the ARM. Also, with the installed base of Palm-compatible devices and apps, I really doubt creativity in the pre-OS 5 arena will go away very soon.

Perhaps. I'd expect for Palm to provide a API for enhanced screen resolutions, however, if the new devices have them. (Ala' what they did with the VFS interface) Since Sony's track record on operating system upgrades is kind of spotty at best, I'd be worried about being orphaned when the new software is written to Palm's OS5 APIs, which (hopefully) won't be compatable with Sony's (Rather kludge) API.

6) True on the peripherals, but Sonys are relatively new to the market.More and more are appearing, but if you really need a GPS right now, early Clie adoption isn't for you.

Or ever, actually. It seems that, as soon as a third party starts shipping a Clie Peripheral, Sony changes the interfaces on their next shipping model. Hardly the sort of thing that inspires people to develop for their hardware.

I know they've been promising all sorts of things in MemoryStick format (Cameras, modems, etc...) - So far, the only one I've even heard of shipping is the BlueTooth module. Anybody want to provide an update?

Re:Some issues against this...

[Keith Russell]

My $0.02:

• PalmOS 5: Exactly! That's the #1 reason I'm not even considering one. #2 would be the fact that I already have an N760. :-)
• Resolution: The included Hi-Res Assist converts text-heavy apps to the hi-res fonts, and pixel-doubles bitmaps, so most apps benefit automagically. And there are plenty of 320x320-aware apps out there now. 320x480 mode is another issue altogether. The only app that supports it out-of-the-box is PhotoStand?! Missed that boat. I wonder if they ever consuslted with HandEra on their virtual Graffiti support?
• Battery life: Ugh. Runs contrary to the Zen of Palm. I guess that's what you get when you push a Dragonball that far. ARM-based chips are supposed to be better at power management, as long as the operating system doesn't squander the gains. *cough*PocketPC*cough*
• Memory Stick/ATRAC3: I've combined these because I've lost count of the number of times I've had to clue-stick someone over this. It's smaller than all but SD, only fractionally more expensive than CF, cheaper than SD, no more difficult to license than consortium-controlled formats, and only CF is available in larger volumes (> 128MB). And, for the umpteenth time, you don't need MagicGate or ATRAC3 to listen to music! I repeat: You don't need MagicGate or ATRAC3 to listen to music! Dock, run MSImport, copy MP3s to /PALM/PROGRAMS/MSAUDIO, and enjoy. That's it. MagicGate is all but dead. ATRAC3 is back on MiniDisc, where it belongs.
• Accessories: Sony's betwixt and between on that front. For Q1 2002, Sony leapfrogged Compaq and HP for #3 in handheld sales. So there's demand for periphials, right? Not exactly. Sony is still way behind Palm and Handspring. So they're outselling the best PocketPCs, but way behind on PalmOS. The fact that they switched connectors between the S/N-series and the T/NR-series didn't help. I think that, once Sony can convince accessory makers that the T/NR connector is the future, the market will open up.

Re:Some issues against this...

[mliu]

There are GPS and cameras available here in Japan at least as well.

ARM based linux pda

[TechnoLust]

If you can get your medical apps in Linux or Java, you could get a Sharp Zaurus SL-5500. I ordered one over a month ago and I LOVE IT! You can read about some of the things I've done with it in my journal.

Re:ARM based linux pda

[HoaryCripple]

It's funny you should mention that, because I did actually go out and buy one of these. I was hoping that POSE could be ported to it and then run Palm applications on top of that. So far though, no luck. There are no native medical applications that I can find, and no java ones either. Besides the paucity of medical applications for the SL5500, it's a nifty little item, especially with the wireless compact flash card.

the /. effect

[zbuffered]

We are like a tidal wave, asiagadgets.com is like a small house, on stilts. It's built to take a little water, but we've not only covered it, head to toe, it's at risk of being swept away.

Price

[af_robot]

Come one!
It is Sony, they can paint the brick with silver color, put sony label on it, and zillions of Sony fan will die just for the right to buy it first.

Re:Price

[i0lanthe]

they can paint the brick with silver color

The folks I know who are heavily into Sony are a lot more into "purple" than true silver. (go figure.) But aside from that, I have to agree ;-)

apples and oranges

[Kunta Kinte]

true.

Although "pocket pc" sounds lame.

Truth is I was waiting for months for this. I put in my preorder as soon as they were available. But two days ago, I cancelled it and got a Sharp Zaurius after I played with one. These are much more attractive in hand than the pictures on the website suggest, and they have a 206MHz processor. They are *very* responsive.

It's true that for some people a traditional low powered PDA might be better. But if you're a power user, geek, etc. Do yourself a favor and check out the Zaurius or iPaq FIRST!!!

I am glad I did.

Re:apples and oranges

[rosewood]

i just dont need that much crap interupting me when all I wanna do is find a chick's phone #

I like my palm vx cause it has extra stuff like avantgo to read news while Im taking a crap

Deja-vu

[cuvavu]

Hmm, wasn't this released in march ;) here

Another review of the Clie NR70V

[Anonymous Coward]

2 Things:

First, here's a link containing my first thoughts on the new Clie:
http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsI D=719

Second, here's a link to the story telling you how to get the said Clie for $85 off:
http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID =721

Brian
bargainPDA.com

PS, I work in retail consumer electronics.

[Toxxy]

And if you had paid for one of those extended warranties all you /.ers so abhor, you'd be able to stroll back into that store and get a brand new one. Ahaha, you suck.

Deja-vu

[cuvavu]

Hmm, wasn't this released in march ;) http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/03/28/003122 4&mode=thread

Bluetooth stick in US soon

[Anonymous Coward]

The Bluetooth memory stick will be in the US soon, it's currently for sale in Asia.

Brian
www.bargainpda.com

You can get $85 off now

[Anonymous Coward]

Dell has a huge sale that the new Clie qualifies for. Hit this link for the details and coupon codes...and a review of the thing.

http://www.bargainpda.com/default.asp?newsID=721

B

Assuming you ar etalking about Linux...

[biglig2]

...I don't see any Linux ports to dragonball, so no.

Re:Assuming you ar etalking about Linux...

[jx100]

What, you mean like this?

Cool but..

[AppyPappy]

Can you download a virus to it? If it doesn't duplicate everything in Outlook and totally screw my calendar, I'm not interested.

no grafitti area

[qwerty123]

Sony's new Clie is the first Palm-based handheld to nix the permanent silk-screened input area in favor of a software-based area displayed at the bottom of the new, larger LCD screen.

false, http://www.handera.com/ has had that feature for quite a few months now

software-based/LCD graffiti area

[GeorgieBoy]

From the article:

Sony's new Clie is the first Palm-based handheld to nix the permanent silk-screened input area in favor of a software-based area displayed at the bottom of the new, larger LCD screen.

Untrue: Handera's model 330 did this first.

Mainstream?

[Anonymous Coward]

The onscreen text-area makes so much sense it surprises me that more people haven't done it (yes Handera, but they aren't as mainstream as Palm, Sony, and Handspring).

I guess Samsung doesn't count either then.

Re:Mainstream?

[Krieger]

Not really, as that's a combination phone/pda.

It all depends on what your looking for... and admitedly what I'm talking about are PDAs only.

Marketing has a lot to do with it as well and what you can buy easily. I've seen Sony, Handspring, and Palm in different stores. I don't think I've ever seen a Handera device. I'm discounting the combo phone/pda's because they aren't what I consider a good technology mix. (right now at least)

Palm VIIx etc.

[gruntvald]

Everything Palm does is better done by other companies, but, damn it, why does no-one else do wireless internet? It's the only thing that keeps me on it.

Spotted in action

[klocwerk]

My suitemate has one that he just got yesterday, with camera.
I got to play with it for a few minutes.
The keyboard is surprisingly well designed, it's easy to hit one key even for people with big fingers like I have.
The camera takes solid quality pictures. Don't replace your coolpix with it, but it's perfectly suitable for snapshots.

My friend got it to replace his Ipaq, and he's loving it. Much thinner, nifty design, and he's obsessed with the way the screen flips itself over when you go from clamshell to tablet.

A very nice sleek little unit.

Best Buy?

[emarkp]

Of course, at Best Buy, they'll tell you the sale was a mistake after you buy it, and charge you the full price...

Re: a 4th category

[engwar]

While I probably fall into the "gee-whiz technogeek" category I would think that there is a 4th category: A person who needs or wants both a cell-phone and a pda yet doesn't want to carry more than one device around. I always chuckle when I see a person with a pda, pager and cell phone strapped to their waist. What a pain!.

I carry my still-working PalmIII constantly mostly for the calendar, contact and to do list. Sometimes I find myself in need of a cell phone, but not often enough that I want to carry *another* device around. When my PalmIII finally dies on me I just hope there are even more options for a multi-purpose device and that the price has come down.

I'd like to see something along these lines...

• Standard handheld functions(Open mind on the OS)
• Synchs with Linux and Windoze
• Mini Keyboard a la Blackberry
• Graffiti-type input also
• Cell Phone
• Can run Java Apps
• Internet Access through my EXISTING ISP (Earthink through cable company at home. Don't want to pay multiple times for Internet Access and don't need 'always on')
• Decent range of choices for cell plan
• Battery life that doesn't suck
• Non-proprietary memory card options
• Less than $350

Heck, shape it like a Star Trek TOS communicator and have it make the same sound when you flip it open and I'll buy it today!-- guess that proves the "geek" part of "techno-geek"

Incorrect Issues

[jeremyf]

I can't believe this guy got modded up. Do you guys mod up anyone who makes a bunch of crap up?

• PalmOS5 will be out soon and that's the only truth this guy included in his post. However, this fact is pretty overrated. PDA's are not bought for their upgradability (or if they are, they are by stupid people); in fact, although most PDA's are upgradable today very few people actually upgrade them. The only PDA so far that has had a major upgrade released for it is the Compaq Ipaq, and there have been many problems with it. When you buy your PDA, buy it for what it can do out of the box, not what it can do in the future.
• ALL apps support Sony's 320x320 resolution. If there's some bad programming in the app you can reset the Clie to work as if it were 160x160 resolution. If you mean few apps are built especially for Sony's 320x320 resolution, you're wrong again. It took a few months, but most popular apps are made especially for Sony's hi-res, including even many games. Even though the NR-series has only been out in the US for days, there are already programs popping up for the 480x320 resolution (which can still run any program ever fine).
• It has approximately the same battery life as PPC devices. If you're waiting for PalmOS5 devices, you'll see around the same battery life, if not less.
• The Memory Stick is the smallest flash media device available except for the extremely expensive Secure Digital format. Memory Sticks used to be expensive, but they're now about the same as Compact Flash. Note that Palm and PPC devices use the much more expensive SD (Secure Digital) format. Memory Stick and Secure Digital both have 128mb limits at the moment, so you're "does not hold too much data" argument is moot. Memory Stick is also not any more proprietary than the main competitor, Secure Digital. Sony was the developer of Memory Stick and pushes it, just like Panasonic (along with Toshiba) developed Secure Digital and pushes that. Both formats charge fairly large license fees. Non-Sony products are popping up all over that use Memory Sticks (especially in Japan). Portable and set-top DVD players, car stereos, and even Sony's next-gen WEGA Tv's have memory stick slots.
• Sony has pretty much dropped MagicGate and ATRAC3 outside of asia. You don't need to touch either of these to get everything out of a clie.
• Um, yes there are Stowaway keyboards for your Sony, and GPS devices for your clie, including one made by Sony themselves. There are plenty of accessories for Clies, which is the third biggest seller of PDA's in the United States. Handspring is dropping market share fast, so it won't be long until Sony is #2.
• 
  Sony makes the best Palm-based PDA's. The only downside to the NR-series, in my opinion, is the size (which isn't as big as Pocket PC's or even some PalmOS units, but is bigger than, say, Sony's T-series).

Big is the new small

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, big is the new small. Cammy Diaz has one that's twice as big as the Treo.

Don't get it

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

Other than the high-resolution screen, there isn't really much impressive about the new Clie. MP3? PocketPC has had that for 2 years. Fast processor? PocketPCs all have fast processors (206mhz StrongARM; some products have 400mhz XScale). Mini keyboard? Jornada + Stowaway costs the same as the Clie. Expandable memory? The Jornada has CF, as do most other PocketPCs.

Oh, and yes, PocketPCs can even run Linux, XWindows, KDE, and even Konqueror. Check out handhelds.org; you don't even have to re-flash your device to do it anymore (you can have a dual-boot PocketPC).

Screw that, get the 70V - integrated video camera

[Anonymous Coward]

I saw the 70 when I was in Japan, but knew the
70V was coming out a few days later - I'll be
getting one in a few months.

And it comes with the

[geekoid]

convienant, easy to use, snap off display! Young kids everywhere will love that feature.

OT

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait, you are making a theme/themes for Gnome and Blackbox, you post to slashdot, and try not to be modded offtopic when you are, you keep talkinga bout being stoned, yet you can't find an wallpaper image by yourself?

Why don't you get stoned and go looking else where like google? Better yet, why not ask the stoner sites dumbass!

Re:first pr0n (not first post -you're still asshol

[Anonymous Coward]

I am an opera singer

I stand on paper tape

it tells me where I'm going

and where to throw my cape

I AM ATM.

Slashdot needs a new icon

[SeanAhern]

This is offtopic, but...

I can't believe how old Slashdot's icon for PalmOS features is! For a story about a kick-ass advanced PDA, having an icon showing 4-year old technology is just embarassing.

(Okay, I don't know that it's 4 years old, but you know what I mean.)

To Sony People

[Anonymous Coward]

I know Sony will read this because this is the perfect site to get a free market research!

Anyway, besides newarly all the issues posted here. I would also like to see a mic, so I can store or even use this little machine to store video images!!

The Mem Stick Rules

[hfk]

For those, like me, used to the old ways of the Palm (my first was a Palm 5000 bought in a Pawn shop, second was a IIIx) the new Sony's are a giant step ahead. I've recently bought a Clie T615 and am amazed by it's features. While considering my next Palm device purchase, I'd read that the NR70 had been released in Japan, and an impending release was likely in the States, but the cost factor left me cold, so I satisified that immediate-gratification urge and went with the 615 rather than wait for the significantly more expensive NR70. And I'm glad I did....

Typical of a Sony product (I own many, including one of those 400 cd players with the nifty remote) the device is chock full of interesting, useful features. Foremost among them: the memory stick. In many ways, the stick capabilty negates concerns about built-in memory capacity: applications, files, and entire backup images can be effortlessly stored on memory sticks. For instance:

Using Isilo ( http://www.isilo.com/ ) I've captured and stored to my 64 MByte mem stick the entire Solaris 8 man pages for User Commands, System Administrator Commands, and File Formats ( http://docs.sun.com:80/ab2/coll.40.6/@Ab2CollView? Ab2Lang=C&Ab2Enc=iso-8859-1 ). The total file size is approx 8 MBytes. I have a Sunkey membership ( http://www.sun.com/service/servicelist/us/sunkey_s olutions.html ) and am in the process of honing my Unix/Solaris/Linux skills, so having the entire set of most-often-used man pages in the palm of my hand is tremendously helpful.

Another example of the advantages of the mem stick: resident in rom on the Clie is a backup/restore application that allows backups of the entire contents of memory to the mem stick. As I said, it's resident in ROM so, even after a hard reset, the app is reinstalled. You can hard-reset and immediately restore the device to some prior-saved condition. Recently, this was especially helpfull to me: I'd installed, and misconfigured a security app called PDA defense. It locked me out of some important palm features. Furthermore, I was unable to erase the app from memory (it was 'locked'). I was away from home for an extended length of time (3 weeks in the Dallas Sun Training facility) and didn't have acces to my home PC/cradle/Internet Connection to reconfigure the device (my laptop was running Solaris 8 x86 at the time and wasn't much help with the Clie). However, I was able to make a backup copy of memory to the mem stick, and was then able to remove the offensive app from the backup copy (the backup image can be browsed, and files can be deleted, with a handy little Sony app that's also burned into ROM). I then restored the image to the Clie, and solved the whole problem.

The NR70 has all of that and more, but the cost is a real kick in the teeth for me, especially considering the limitations of the camera. Basically, I'm going to have to buy a Sony camera anyway, to take decent pictures so, at lease for me, I can't justify the expense of the NR70. B ut I'm completely sold on the entire memory stick concept.

Who is actually driving development of Palm OS?

[Mr_Silver]

The reason I ask is that according to the article there are no applications that support the new silkscreen area.

Since there has been this type of silkscreen on the Handera for a while now I'm a little worried that both formats aren't compatible.

Which would mean that you'd have to have different versions of one application for different PDA's.

This was something that Microsoft had the issue with in regards to CPU's and eventually standardised on one type. Are we going to see this fragmentation of OS 4.x right up until 5.0 comes out to which everyone will come together again?