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Pittsburgh Launches Large, Free, Public WiFi Network
Snkscore writes: "Pittsburgh launched an outdoor public Wi-Fi network on Monday. The story here from cnet talks about their plan to cover 4sq miles of downtown Pittsburgh with 10Mb internet access and charge a $20/month access fee (cheap!!). I think this is the coolest thing. Next, I think they should setup access points along the train tracks." Update: 05/21 18:59 GMT by T : Garbled URL fixed now -- sorry 'bout that.
how can it be "free" if it costs $20?
davejenkins.com |
Anybody actually check that link? It's uh, ethereal :)
SIG: HUP
Anyone have any stories about pulling something like that off?
How exactly does $20/m equal a free network?
PS the link to the article is messed up.
The world moves for love. It kneels before it in awe.
This is not only important for web surfing and the like but brings up the possibility of cheap non celluar phone access. This could spawn a whole new industry, this just needs to get repeated in a few cities so that it becomes trendy and will then be adopted country wide (be the first one in your neighborhood).
I don't know what's up with the link in the blurb, but here's a working link to the article: http://news.com.com/2100-1033-918439.html?tag=fd_t op
Mr. Spey
Cover your butt. Bernard is watching.
http://slashdot.org/Pittsburgh,whereanoutdoorpubli cWi-FinetworkwaslaunchedMonday
Maybe you meant: http://news.com.com/2100-1033-918439.html
Never confuse volume with power.
link doesn't work, but this has the classic ISP problem built in... don't you have to charge your users AT LEAST your cost?
a 10MB pipe is not cheap, and at 20 a pop is probably very poor service (technical and customer) i don't see this sticking around too long.
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
$20/month is very, very cheap! Double that wouldn't even buy you 56k unmetered access off-peak here in the U.K.!
Video Game cheats, hints a
The story is here. As for free vs. $20, it looks like it's free for now and they want to start charging $20 eventually.
I kind of wonder myself, and I'd really like it obviously. I'd like to see the figures this company is running on, of if it's funded by the city, and the $20/month doesn't pay for it. It's most likely however, that $20/month will have whoever is in charge with extra money, and the only reason companies aren't doing this all over the place is because they can get more money for cable or dsl. Wireless has tons of regulations, but it's a cakewalk compared to telephone.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
For all those looking for the missing link (and that includes any anthropologists) check here.
Video Game cheats, hints a
If they NAT it to all their friends, would they be the Pittburgh Pirates?
You are not the customer.
What a great way to launch a virus - a free wireless network.
Yup.
At first I thought, "hooray."
But now I am thinking...is this so great? What is the obvious outcome of a city-wide public wireless network? For one thing, it means a blossoming of software and music piracy, not to mention child pronography. This could cause the kind of community outrage that ensures that the DMCA will never be repealed.
Remember the saying, "a blessing in the form of a gift may be a curse." I think that is what we have here.
A curse.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
If your goal is to have access while on the train, wouldn't it be cheaper to outfit the TRAIN with access points and have a single data connection from the train to some home base? They already have some form of communication with the station anyway. It would be MUCH cheaper to retrofit that line on each passenger train and equip each passenger train with WAPs.
-- Minds are like parachutes... they work best when open.
If I lived in pitts, I would expect my tax dollars to pay for crap like this that noone asked for. Meanwhile, people who worry about cellphone radiation appear undaunted by the massive amount of RF floating through them as they sing tra la la on their way to work. As I recall, someone tried this in a different city not too long ago, and couldn't figure out exactly how to keep people off the network without breaking cost and technical barriers presented by radius type stuff in the sizes required by metro users. I give the typical "Alice Cooper Restraunt Syndrome" rating - 3 months till bankruptcy or until these people just give up. In closing... Tax Dollars to infrastructure providers prevents stupid behavior on the part of entreprenuers with no real good ideas.
-- http://www.criticalassets.com
10 MB/s is almost 7x as fast as a T1. I could see this attracting lots of businesses, and lots of geeks to Pittsburgh.
Yeah it costs taxpayer money, but so does giving tax breaks, and so does building convention centers. To me this is a smarter way to attract business to your city. I hope others follow suit.
No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?
According to the article, "The network, which became available for public use on Monday, is free to use for now. Organizers envision charging $20 a month for access once the network, covering a 4-square-mile area of downtown Pittsburgh, is built, according to Executive Director Ron Gdovic."
Obviously the network is freely accesable for now, in the near future it will be $20/mo (probably going to go way up after that).
Next, I think they should setup access points along the train tracks.
I agree. Think of the 1337 h0b05. 0wn1n6 all the train commuters' wireless notebooks & PDAs. Good stuff.
10Mb is that Mbits or bytes? No one uses consistent terminology on /., so how do I know?
Suppose it is 10Mb/s, like Ethernet. Divide that into 4 SQUARE MILES DOWNTOWN, where there are maybe 100000 people, you end up with a stunning average 100 bits/second for 20$ month.
Ok, so only the subscribers can use the network? Suppose you have 100 subscribers, this makes you 2000$ a month revenue, how will you pay for the infrastructure, tech support and advertising?
This is never gonna work. I place higher odds on Hyperchip actually shipping a product.
One of the big problems with wireless connectivity around Pittsburgh is the local topology. There are lots of hills and valleys and comparatively little flat land. This has made cellular service rather unreliable in a lot of cases, and makes wireless service difficult outside of short ranges (at least, outside the relatively flat downtown area). It'll be a while before both providers offer service beyond small ranges, but it's a promising start all the same.
I my self could care less, it is cool to see this happen but for the most part ,I think it is not need in the downtown. but I don't work in th edowntown anymore : ).
If they had done this in another part of the city it would have been better, southside or in shadyside I could see this take off even in oakland I think it would get better use.
But what do I know I have only lived here for about 4 years, and there is little to do in the downtown triangel to do after 5pm.
Dr. Suess: 'Gandalf, Gandalf! Take the ring! I am too small to carry this thing!' 'I can not, will not hold the One.
Next, I think they should setup access points along the train tracks.
Nice idea, but it wouldn't work. The 'cell' size of WiFi is very small. At standard (or even slow) train speeds, you'd be in and out of the cell before your laptop can handshake with the access point.
Talk about "dynamic IP"!
Moving out of edgewood into the City of Pittsburgh - Several thousand dollars and many headaches
Dealing with the city of Pittsburgh parking shit and most likely not having a driveway - Many Migraines
Increased Tax rates - Alot
Ripping off the RIAA and MPAA, not waiting for the pr0n images to load, not getting packetloss when ever someone uses Pay-Per-View downstairs, and all at 10Mbits for half of what I'm paying for ISDN speed Cable right now - Priceless
(Score:0, Interesting)
This is happening in NYC as well, only there are non-for-profit groups such as NYCwireless working to provide FREE access in public spaces throughout the NYC metropolitan area. If you're in NYC, check out this Community Network Node Database (also available for other major US cities.)
The article says that it's free for now until the network is complete.
To me (opinion) that's kind of like saying "Here, it's half a wheel, but you can use it free until we make the other half". I know, not quite analagous, but the point should be noted that "free until we charge you" is not free.
$.02 (and you can't have change back)
-- There is no sig line, only Zuul.
Now when people go outside to get away from technology and back to nature, they can pirate some mp3s at the same time.
Since it's all free now, there probably won't be any problems except limited bandwidth. But when they go to $20/month, how likely is phreaking to start happening? WLAN authentication hasn't had the best history...
Well, as per the instructions:
u nchedMonday)
g h,whereanoutdoorpubli cWi-FinetworkwaslaunchedMonday
/. mail effect ;-)
404 File Not Found
The requested URL (Pittsburgh,whereanoutdoorpublicWi-Finetworkwasla
was not found.
If you feel like it, mail the url, and where ya came from to pater@slashdot.org.
http://slashdot.org/Pittsbur
Wonder if that creates a
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
Actually, all sarcasm aside, this seems like a pretty good idea. I'll have to walk around with my Powerbook and see what I can pick up. It is a lot cheaper than the DSL line I have now.
Kris
Cool. I live here in Pittsburgh. How do I go about configuring my laptop to use this network?
how could they give t1 connections out for $20 a month over wireless.
$699.00 per month! (for a T1 line)
699.00 setup.
Dedicated Internet T1 speed with local loop at an affordable price!
We have always sought value and quality for our customers by using Cisco routers. Your dedicated circuits guarantee the highest level of availability for your Internet communications.
Dr. Suess: 'Gandalf, Gandalf! Take the ring! I am too small to carry this thing!' 'I can not, will not hold the One.
in i remeber correctly there are three different WiFi networks in Portland OR, and all three are absolutley free. Why is this story such an amazing thing?
People still live in Pittsburgh??? There were tumbleweeds blowing down Forbes Ave. when I moved away.
"Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither!"
there is a related story at http://www.CNNnews.tk
seeing that northern virginia and dc...as technology savvy as they claim to be...will never have such a luxury...i may have to move back to pittsburgh. cheaper living, wifi, and cmu...hmmm, tempting
The page is there, but the permissions are set wrong.
I think I had a reason for changing the permissions, but I don't remember what it was and I don't want to second-guess myself.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
...their netblock becomes blackholed by network operators woldwide due to the volume of spam being piped through the unauthenticated connection.
So many people are saying that this service is not free, mentioning the $20/month fee listed in the summary. If you had read the article, you would know that (as of right now), access is free (as in beer).
I am curious though, will the network be free, as in speech? It would be nice to get 10Mb wireless access, but it would be nicer to get unrestricted 10Mb wireless access. Who wants to bet that all P2P ports will be limited or restricted?
FREE for now, $20 later. *this irratates me, why do you say "twenty dollars" but write it dollars 20?
I write code.
We have had a 802.11b network across most of seattle and the east side for a long time now. Seattle Wireless has a nice webpage up complete with a coverage map at
;)
http://www.seattlewireless.com
The pringle can network that they have constructed is quite impressive
Two antenna, however, does not make a huge wireless network IMHO.
The Highgate test network communitywireless.org is bigger than this! If you're interested in that an the mobile hardware they're using, check out locustworld.com
...right after i decide not to go to college in pittsburgh.
that is the most important factor in choosing a college right? access to wifi networks?
It is easy really, just get one of the hard-core Gnu/Linuxers to start ranting about how free doesn't really mean free, but instead means freedom.... Add in some reference to speech and beer...
<ducking>
Hey, Windows users, there is no such thing as "forward" slash, there is only slash and backslash.
what channels does one go threw to get this kind of thing done? I could setup a gorilla system and cover a few blocks of down town area Salem if i played my cards right but id love to get Salem to do it and have it be offical and be involved in the implemtation of it.
who do you have to call? how many signatures are needed? how many tons of paper work must be delt with? startup fee and cost? etc... any one??
Oh boy! Now I can have free access while I sit in my car due to all the road construction!
(Pittsburgh has shut down a heavily used bridge, a tunnel, and has several construction projects on highways for several months)
Any college student can tell you, downtown Pittsburgh is dead. The only people who go there are those who have to work there. By evening it is deserted except for a few restaurants and bars. Apparently this company has a different effort from the Telerama one, which has set itself up in various shops throughout Pittsburgh (not just downtown). Or perhaps they're linked somehow, since the eventual pricing plan is similar. Personally I'd rather they just setup wireless around where my apartment is =).
nt
---
Is this the MPAA? Is this the RIAA? Is this the DMCA? I thought it was the USA!
think of the children? Who will save the children!?
In the words of Drew Carey
Safety Nazi. Fuck off!
Not everyone who goes to a bar, drives home drunk. Not everyone who owns a knife goes off and becomes a serial murderer.
Of course most of judge others by the only standard we have, ourselves. By your expectations, one might wonder about your browsing habits...
I wonder if they'll interconnect to Pittsburgh's I-net. Its the fiber network Pittsburgh got as a result of its cable franchise renewal. Last I heard it connects the city government, educational, nonprofit sites at 100mbps. That would be a truly innovative municipal infrastructure, using wireless for the last hop to homes and fiber for the backbone. The group behind the wireless project, 3 Rivers Connect worked on that project after all.
This is like saying I have a 100mbps network at home because I have a 100mbps hub connected. I still get only 384k to the Internet, because that's the speed of my DSL.
They're probably running this off a T1, and if so, obviously you're not really going to get more than a T1 worth of bandwidth, and that's if you're the only person using the network.
I've been to Pittsburgh, and they're going to have to open some half-decent restaurants and lease a weather changing machine before they'd have a chance at getting me to live there.
D
The problem with running phones over this service is that the 802.11b network could be knocked off the air by an interfering signal.
I wouldn't want to depend on a wireless phone that disconnects every time an amateur radio operator goes on the air.
(Interesting side note: I worked at Intel when they were doing interoperability testing of DSL in its early days. One of the big problems that they had was that every time someone turned on their vacuum cleaner, the internet connection would get dropped. :)
That said, such a service would be cool, and would be a good alternative for many types of communication. I just wouldn't want to rely on it for business or for calling 911.
--Bruce
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Can anyone shed any light on the architecture of such a system? Things like cell sizes and # of WAPs, # of users per WAP, connectivity of WAPs to Internet, etc.
I'd like to get a handle on the economics of the project. A 100m radius isn't that big so you're going to need A LOT of WAPs, no? 4 sq. miles = 10359613 sq. meters / 31415 sq. meters per node = 330 nodes minimum, right?
Thoughts?
> Pittsburgh Launches Large, Free, Public WiFi Network
I wish San Diego would do the same.
I was all set to snatch my friend's laptop (wireless attachment in tow) and run outside (I'm within spitting distance of downtown Pittsburgh) but I read Grok Technology's news release about it here Basically if you want to use it, you need to be in one of two "parks" downtown between 7:30 AM - 9:00 AM and 11:00 AM - 1:00 PM Bummer.
like the lamb to the slaughter...
Noone does ANYTHING for free, especially your government. Bandwidth limitations ala Australia, an easier point of taxation when the U.S. Governors Association gets their way to tax all Internet transactions, a single point to watch for porn, music and file trading... A single point of intercept and monitoring.
I am sure their is even more that my cynical, suspiscious, and negative mind come up with, but it is too much work as ultimately you all will say "Boy, this is a great idea and it is FREE!".
Not free in a long shot.
i live in pittsburgh.. and this isnt really new or big news. infact.. "free" wifi has actually been around the downtown area for a while. this new "free" 20/mo deal is only the result of getting people hooked and making them pay for it
So now we have.
Free (as in beer)
Free (as in ???)
...
...
Free (as in $20/mo.)
Is anyone at all concerned with the amount of RF radiation this will hit people with? When I am on the train now, every person sitting around me is chatting on the cell phone. I am trying to ignore all the second-hand radiation. With the new WiFi networks, now I will have a bunch of high-frequency surfers along with cell phone users. I will probably be glowing when I get off the train.
now i have a reason to like living in pittsburgh =)
Yeah, right a columbia student that can't operate a simple web page, claiming that it is there but for no reason will fix it. Same poster who claimed to be writing genome themes yet goes about ./ asking for image of a stoned LODR character yet can't do a simple google search. Who wants to bet that this guy is BSing about this in order to not seem like a troll. Hell, I must be a well educated college student if put up a link that goes no where and do not prove a page that proves that I do attend said college. Read his history here.
I bet that page will never show up at all. Maybe I should ask said admin if there really is or was a user that went by tps12.
I'm thinking the upstream locked down and only accessible via IPSec (which you would pay to get an account for). This would be an excellent solution since it would also serve to secure your communications.
OT: If you're a FST fan and you haven't heard this album, start looking. It's fantastic!
Since I don't expect Ricochet to recover, I hope public-access 802.11b networks like this appear in the San Jose and Denver areas. And it would be really nice if the various public 802.11b networks got together and implemented roaming for their customers.
Personally, I love the fact that the bawug network depends on the work and resources of individuals, and not the government.
Since Metronome/Ricochet failed, I don't expect our local government to do any better.
Stephan
Looks like the 'Burgh is ahead of the curve on this one.
Pittsburgh is not the smoky steel town it once was. They're attempting to be at the forefront of new technology, and this proves it.
Sinatra may have left his heart in San Francisco, but I left mine in the Iron City.
For instance, here's a list of intentionally open wireless access points around SF
--Pat / zippy@cs.brandeis.edu
Yuns can up to my haus dahntahn and watch em stillers up this new wireless thing up air.
How bout em buccos? You think yuns can get the signal dahn over the bridge at PNC park? Id like to watch em buccos and download Donnie Iris on my 'puter. Then we can buy clothes from Pants N'at.com without goin dahn to da strip.
and I never heard anything about this.
And dammit, we tricked people into staying away from the city for decades with the air-is-tantamount-to-soot thing...now this comes along...every geek within 300mi will want to come here now. As if parking and traffic (especially with the Fort Pitt Bridge and Tunnel closed) isn't bad enough already.
Taxes? In Pittsburgh taxes go to take down stadiums, build new ones, take them down again, build arenas, take them down, fill the pockets of ever so greedy sporty players.
The roads are nightmares overcrowded and full of pottholes, the downtown is full of beggars and scum everywhere. People are running for their lives to get from one building to another. Around downtown in the 4 sq miles coverage area there is a belt of gettos full of drugs, jerky criminals, and pimps. Almost every day several people are shot in that area.
They have now wireless for beggars and pimps? He, he, he, that's a good one.
Actually, the 0.01 euro denomination is called a cent, so it'd still be "my two cents". Heh.
the health effects of all the electro-magnetic waves or whatever they are that all these wireless devices broadcast? Just how much "wireless" can we use before we start interfering with all our brains?
-- Aaron
Funniest post of the day!
Public wireless
The future of networking
Pittsburgh takes the lead
--Pat / zippy@cs.brandeis.edu
Ha! No, what they really need are actual *train* *tracks*. The subway system in this town is horribly inadequate. (Ok, off topic, but mildly relevant...)
Everybody knows that the truly useful passenger rail system in Pittsburgh connects not the South Hills to DahnTahn, but rather connects the airport hub to the passenger gates. Anybody done a study on that? Number of passenger-miles logged by the people movers at the airport versus those logged by the "T" ? I'm curious...
Pittsburghers don't have a handler installed for SIGTURN.
Very interesting that Pittsburgh is actually dong something like this...however, a few points...
1) No one actually -lives- in downtown Pittsburgh
2) The average age of Pittsburgh citizens is higher than that of florida
3) Aside from CMU and Pittsburgh's own efforts to be billed as 'the next silicon valley' and aggressive advertising campaigns extolling the virtues of Pittsburgh, it is still experiencing negative population growth
4) There just aren't any jobs there!
now, some wise ass is gonna ask for links to this info, to which I say:
Don't have 'em. Only lived there for 4 years and spent more time unemployed than employed. fortunately, the future is brighter in the DC metro area.
when all is said and done, all a man has left are his blades and his honor.
If you had a small business within the access range, what would prevent you from sharing this internet connection and use it for commercial purposes? Is this part of the plan?
... because any user at work could now whack in an 802.11b card into their ethernet-connected laptop and open up a whole new attack point into the corprate LAN.
I love the idea of the project, but there will be a lot of sobbing network admins out there having to deploy full lockdown environments, personal firewalls on laptops, etc.
Population isn't down that much, but it's a lot older. The percentage of people over 65 in Pittsburgh is up there with retirement areas in Florida. Plus, very few immigrants move to Pittsburgh; those numbers are among the lowest in the US.
I just came back from Mellon Square in downtown Pittsburgh, PA. I spoke to Scott Legg, the regional sales manager for Grok Technology, about the system. They have wireless antennas set up in two buildings on opposite sides of the park so they get good coverage within the park itself. They have security on the system but they will let you sign up for free to try it out. They say it will work with PDAs as well as laptops. If you're in the downtown Pittsburgh parks today, look for guys with laptops and ask them about it. They don't have any booths or signs up so you have to hunt them down.
...but I'll probably still use the network jack in my room at the Omni William Penn.