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E3: Epic, US Army Develop Games as Recruitment Tool
securitas writes "Reuters and AP tell us that Epic Games and the US Army have announced the America's Army series of games, jointly developed by the Department of Defense and Epic. The first two-part game in the five-year project includes an RPG called Soldier and a first-person shooter called Operations. The game will be free of charge and available for download in July or August, with 1.2 million CDs simultaneously released, attached to gaming magazines. Does this remind anyone else of the war-room scene from Toys or Ender's Game?" Future installments will include Sim Mess Duty, Sim Standing Guard in the Rain, Sim Blister, and Sim Invading Iraq to Keep Approval Ratings High.
and I also hope that Microsoft doesn't start complaining about how the Military is now in competition with their games. How is Microsoft supposed to make money on military games if the US Military is giving games away for free?
On a serious note, I'd only have a problem with this if it didn't show what military life was really like. For example, I hope their sims version shows you the excitement of cleaning bathrooms and that you can level up in rock painting. Both of these skills are extremely important to the US Military.
Speaking as a hardcore gamer myself, I could care less about who makes a game. I couldn't care less about how it's distributed. I couldn't care less about how it's "brainwashing people" or how it's "like Toys!". It all comes down to one thing: Is the game fun? From what Penny Arcade tells me, it is going to be fun. That's all I care about.
This is what separates the average geek crowd from the true gamers among us. The average geeks don't understand what it really means to be a hardcore gamer. All they care about is how many polys a model has, how good it looks, or how the breasts are modeled ("She kicks high"). Hell, I'm 23 and I'll be playing Mario, Zelda, and dozens of other "kiddie" games the day they're released, and I don't care.
This is why I hate mainstream media coverage of games. Leave it to the professionals, please.
At least in their games we won't have powerups popping up... or my favorite first person shooter gaffe - shooting people only to have them fall forward or straight down. Of course this could backfire as well, people might not want to join the Army after seeing that its not all that different from a real job.
It is also possible that they may run afoul of Congress, after all all that violence has got to be bad. Figure some Congressional Democrats will scream about it and the anti-2nd Amendment crowd will be there soon.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
See, I don't get this whole "Army of One" business. If I were to join the army, I wouldn't want to be fighting alone. I'm not delusional: I know I can't defeat enemies Rambo-style. No, I'd want to be part of a "Big-Ass Army of Many Ass-Kicking Soldiers, Tanks, and Other Military Equipent". Apparently I have to sign up with some other country to get this.
Gates' Law: Every 18 months, the speed of software halves.
Future installments will include Sim Mess Duty, Sim Standing Guard in the Rain, Sim Blister, and Sim Invading Iraq to Keep Approval Ratings High.
Don't forget the final game in the series: "Risking Their Lives to Protect Your Right to Make Stupid Jokes."
so basicly this says: uncle sam wants PK's
Accidently shooting your allies in "Operations" will gain you extra points. (The versions of the game in non-US NATO countries will not have this feature).
"What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death."
How could such a game be terribly different from another other first person shooter, especially those that were specifically designed to simulate an army experience (minus the bathroom duty, etc.). I'm guessing the sole difference is that you'd see army advertisments everywhere, and the music would be bad. And I'm sure the won't have boot camp instructors yelling their heads off, etc., but rather the classic "shaking-jaw-scrolling-text-so-slow-can't-speed-it -up-but-can-skip-it-with-a-keypress" mission briefs...
"Hey, did you know that these violent games that you love to shoot people in are based on real life? In the next level, there are no extra lives - join the Army!"
Gee, I hope if the Navy does something like this, there will be SimTailHook.... now that's one I'd like to play!
That's the whole point. These are being distributed as a recruiting tool, to show something of what real Army life is like. They're skipping dreary details like KP, but the training is supposed to be pretty accurate to Army experience. The FPS is supposed to be reflective of real missions, where the goal is the point, not the body count. You won't have to wait for days in the jungle for a fight, but you will need some patience.
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." --George S. Patton
It is based on the Unreal engine, and it is awesome. nothing like your regular FPS.. it has the reality dial turned way up... if you get hit once you are dead, or bleeding to death no mega heath, no railgun's, no ammo everywhere, just your handy GI issued weapons. From the demo I watched and played, FPS fans will hate it. and several of the "kids" though it sucked, it requires thinking, skill, and for the player to be clever... very unlike FPS games where most of the players just run around hopping firing at everything that moves... camping is a requirement and only the stupid players do anything other than camping (stupid players=dead players)
so basically, if you're the type of FPS player that gets' wildly mad at campers, you will hate it.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Yes, I am replying to a troll, but I feel the need to.
I only hope this comment was done in sarcasm, but this elitist attitude I so often see from people who served in the military that bothers me. You tell me that I don't understand the meaning of the military or service, yet every day I drive by dozens of memorials to those who have died in the past, and am reminded of their sacrifice. I am thankful that there were people like them to protect our nation.
Then I drive by lots of real tall buildings, and I am reminding of the what they were fighting to protect. Which is more important, the fight, or that which is being protected? I am grateful forpeople serve our military; my grandfather was in Korea, and my father served during the Vietnam Era.
Still, that which is protected bears greater significance than the protectors. Our freedoms, liberties, our constitution, all are much more important than the soldier that died in an attempt to preserve them.
The fight to preserve our liberties is no longer being fought on foreign battlefields, but in our legal system. I think we had a better chance when it had to do with who lasted the longest out there than we do putting faith in judges, juries, and politicians.
But please, do not ever tell me I don't understand the military, or have no right to make light of it. If it really was protecting my rights, then I can say anything I want to about them, now can't I? =]
What?
take a look at
operation flashpoint.
One thing that adds to the realism (besides the damage when being hit) is that you can walk or drive over whole islands with several small towns on them.
These areas (the whole game takes place on three islands) are enourmous - several kms diameter.
I don't seem to recall there being any "Save often, Reload when you are Killed" workaround during my time in the Army.
Nor were power-ups of any sort available, unless you count caffiene.
It was certainly real-time, though much of the real-time was spent waiting.
The only thing that we learn from history is that nobody learns anything from history.
Sim KP, Sim Boot Camp, Sim Freeze-Your-Ass-Off-While-Marching, etc...
God Bless our sons and daughters in harm's way!...we are from the government - we are here to help...
Sim Friendly Fire
Sim Don't Ask Don't Tell
or everybody's cult favorite...
Sim Seargent Pile
Future installments will include Sim Mess Duty, Sim Standing Guard in the Rain, Sim Blister, and Sim Invading Iraq to Keep Approval Ratings High.
Nice way to belittle the work and sacrifices that I and millions of other people throughout the world have given in protecting YOUR rights. Yes, guard and mess duty sucks, but it's a part of military life. So does PT, first call at zero-dark-thirty, inspections, shining boots, cleaning weapons, endless makework, etc.. but it's all a necessary part of military life in order to keep discipline.
As for "Sim Invading Iraq to Keep Approval Ratings High", that's an issue with the leadership, not the men and women who go when given the order. It's easy to criticize and ridicule from the safety of one's Aeron office chair. It's another thing entirely to raise your hand and swear to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. Don't knock it until you've tried it.
Unlike similar combat games, the primary goal of "America's Army" is not killing a massive number of enemies, but instead completing tasks and setting career goals.
"Will there be guys tearing off arms and using them for clubs? No. Because the Army would never do that."
They just lost their target audience - if I can't use somebody's arm as a club, I ain't interested. Career goals? Fsck that.
Yeah, but imagine the suprise when they go to recruit the high scorer and it's just some punkass kidd with a wallcheat and an aim bot.
what /. has against military service? In many countries the average /. reader's military service is *mandatory*. Also, as a US citizen myself,I volunteered and served in the U.S. Navy and cannot complain one bit about the experience. Was it harder than sitting on my ass playing Mortal Kombat(which was new at the time >:)? Yes it was. Did it help me pay for college and make me a better person? You bet your ass it did. Maybe I don't come from as privileged a background as the rest if you but military service helped me out substantially. I guess it is just fashionable to spend your late teens and twenties doing drugs and being a bored, sullen, and directionless loser nowadays.
Well, being that this is based on top of the Unreal engine, development was neither costly, nor lengthy. I have no doubt that it cost less than any one recruitment commercial on television.
As for training, no they will not be using this particular game for that. In fact, the US Army has been working with the people behind Operation Flashpoint to produce a better training tool than the version of Doom the Marines have used over the years.
The US Army's use of modified off-the-shelf games dates back to the 80's with a version of the original vector graphics game Battlezone modified for use as a battle tank simulator.
I applaud the Army for trying out creative marketting techniques, it's not as if the game will beam subliminal messages into your head, and with it being Unreal based, there's the possibility of it being modified for Linux use as well.
Hell, as long as the game is good, it will be as effective a positive mindshare tool as any saturday morning cartoon is at getting you to buy action figures.
1) Saddam Husain has used weapons of mass destruction( WMDs) such as nerve gas against Iraqi kurdish civilians.
2) He ejected U.N. inspectors who were making sure he complied with the peace terms stating he wouldn't continue to develop WMDs including the Iraqi nuclear program.
3) He has launched strikes on civilian populations in Israel during the Gulf War even though Israel was not part of the military coalition. He did this in the hopes invoking an Israeli response which would gain him the support of other Arab nations.
Now because you obviously didn't know this or understand the implications I will state it slowly:
If allowed to develope a nuke, he's likely to use it against a civilian target. Possibly in a pre-emptive strike.
Where is it going to happen? Who knows. Will it be trucked in or on top of a missle? Not sure. A strike against him is necessary to make sure that this doesn't happen.
Sidenote: Informative opposing opinions != Troll, a point often lost on the moderators of this "news source".
I don't think you get it. This isn't a news site. They don't have reporters, they don't write stories. They link to other news stories, it's a meta-site it's about opinion and commentary, that is the value added. There is nothing here other than opinion and commentary that couldn't be found at the various sites they link to.
Nope. It's the big set up for Jeb. Go Jeb! We can have our own royal inbreeds, the Bushes!
1) Running around and around for hours.
2) Getting bored playing cards.
3) Spending hours cleaning your kit.
4) Getting shouted at and humiliated by someone you hate.
5) Sitting on your bunk, waiting.
6) Cleaning your kit again.
7) Going in to town on Saturday night and getting completely drunk and throwing up
8) Letching at women and the desperate machismo of oversexed young men who don't know how to communicate with the opposite sex.
9) Institionalized racism and sexism.
10) Cleaning your kit again.
12) Unquestioningly following dumb orders.
13) Being a guiniepig for experimental drugs with horrible side effects.Or is it going to be all fast action shooting and strategic planning, just like real life in the army?
The America's Army videogame suite, Operations and Soldiers, were built completely by the MOVES Institute, not by Epic Games. We licensed the Epic Games engine for Operations. For more information on the games and imagery from E3, see http://movesinstitute.org
Michael Zyda
This idea to use games to convince impressionable kids to join the army is a good one.
Looking around, all the people of my generation have one of a few careers:
* Alien-attacker, particularly where you have three bases to hide behind
* Ever-hungry giant mouth eating never-ending supply of pellets
* Race car driver on tracks with a lot of popup
* Professional princess rescuer, particularly when you can jump on a lot of mushrooms
* Cubical worker
That last one is the least suprising. I remember as a kid, me and my friends would never stop playing "Cubical Worker!" It was the most popular game in America at the time, which is why everyone seems to have grown up to do it for a living.
> The Army expects by September to spent about $7.5 million on the program
Whew! I'm glad we're spending $7.5 million on this project. With this new Republican leadership manning the purse strings, we've got so much money, I was worried there was no way we'd be able to spend it all. This is a great example of how to get rid of it.
What was that? A $100 billion dollar deficit ?
Wait... which party was for big government and likes to waste money?
Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
First, I originally heard that the only way Epic is tied to this game is by selling the Unreal Engine to the US Military.
Second, the US Army needs to take a lesson from my father, when he taught me this when I was 16. When you budget your money, you get out a piece of paper and make two columns. Mark the first "NEEDS", the other "WANTS."
Where do you think the game will go?
Also, how can they dare compete in an industry where tried-by-fire veteran game designers can fail miserably (ie - Diakatana)??
Mark this one down as the year's dumbest use of money... (Don't get me wrong, I'm a big gamer, I just think the US Military could use the money elsewhere).
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
I think it's very classy of you to make jokes about people who have died for your freedom. Sure, it sucks that the US get stuck policing the world, but as we've been shown, it's not going to do it on its own, and it doesn't look like anyone else is jumping up to do the job. Your attitude is disgusting.
Get off your high horse. Yes, they died for our freedom but that also includes the freedom to say what we want about them and criticize the government when we feel it's necessary. Pull your head out of your ass and smell reality for a change.
If Bush invades Iraq it certainly won't be the first time that a politician has picked a fight to boost his approval ratings. What I find to be truly disgusting is the way that the Bush-Cheney gang have used and are still using the events of September 11th as an excuse to grab more power for themselves and then keep the American people and congress in the dark by claiming "national security". This also isn't the first time that a politician has done this either.
It's also interesting that the whole "escapist fantasy" argument loses its teeth. Even games that're touted as being realistic can generally argue that they're not intended to be acted out. But in this case, the government actually wants the players to eventually do the things they see in the game. Admittedly, it only wants the players to do these things under very specific circumstances (following orders while enrolled in the U.S. Military), but that statement is a significantly weaker defense compared to, say, Rockstar being able to flat-out state that they don't want you to act out any of the crimes in Grand Theft Auto 3, period.
Having a clue-free day, are we?
668: Neighbour of the Beast
*SMACK*
*SMACK*
And for good measure,
*SMACK*
If you think chess actually teaches real world strategy and cunning, you haven't known many people very good at chess.
As much as the fantasy books you read would like you to believe that the great military commanders are all brilliant chess and go players, the fact is that chessmasters are no better at non-chess strategy than anyone else.
...here's an American thanking you for your hard work on my behalf. Cheers (and here's to a world where everyone pulls his own weight and doesn't bitch about it).
Here is the new Sim being designed by the Navy to simulate Sub duty:
HOW TO SIMULATE SUBMARINE LIFE AT HOME
Surround yourself with a few people you don't like. Close all windows and doors tightly, close curtains. Seal any openings to the outside world with a proper vault. Unplug all radios and TV sets to cut yourself off completely from news, football games, Saturday Night Live, the Muppet Show, etc.
Hourly monitor all operating home appliances, if not in use, log as secured. If using the bathroom, do not flush toilet for first two days to simulate smell of blowing sanitaries and venting inboard. Then flush daily.
Wear only approved FBM coveralls, or proper Navy uniforms. No hats, special T-shirts, etc. Cut your hair once a week ensuring that you make it look like hell. Work 18-hour day intervals to ensure your body really gets confused. Listen to the same cassette over and over until you can't stand it anymore, and then put in one that you can't even listen to without acute nausea setting in. Set your alarm to go off just as you fall asleep, with alarm set at loud, or buy a special alarm clock with various settings, (i.e., "Man Battle Stations, Fire, Flooding in the Basement").
Prepare food with a blindfold on to simulate what real submarine cooks do. Then take the blindfold off and try to get your dog to eat it. Then break out a can of tuna and/or peanut butter.
Cut your bed in half, and enclose all but one side using the dimensions of a small casket as a reference. When not in bed, make up blankets properly so no one will see or care.
Periodically, for want of excitement, open main power breaker and run around yelling, "Reactor Scram", until you are sweating profusely, then restore power. Buy yourself a snorkel and mask, and again, periodically, just for want of nothing else to do, put it on and pretend you're in a smoke filled room with no way out. For added variety, hook up the garden hose and pressurize it.
To enable yourself to handle anything, constantly study wiring diagrams and operating instructions for various home appliances (stove, refrigerator, can opener). For no reason at all, at specified intervals (monthly, weekly, etc.) tear one item apart, just in case it was going to break down.
Paint everything around you gray (Navy FSN gray, no substitutes) or off-white. To be sure you are living in a clean and happy environment, every Friday, set alarm on loud for a short but hated drill sound, then get up and manned with only a bucket and sponge and greeny, clean one area over and over, even if it was already spotless. Then make out a discrepancy list.
Once a day, after normal programming hours, plug in TV and watch one movie being careful that it is (a) at least five years old, (b) made long enough prior to showing to be sure that you've seen it at least once before, or (c) be so bad you have to install a seatbelt in your chair to keep you there until it is over.
Since no doctor will be available, stockpile Band-Aids, aspirin, and Actifed as these are proven cure-alls. Practice if necessary on your dog (surgery, dentistry, or death).
When commencing this test simulation, lock your family, friends, and anything that means anything to you outside. Tests will run for at least two months with no end in sight.
I hope that someday we will be able to put away our fears and prejudices and just laugh at people. - Jack Handey
It's frightening that people think this is funny. Not only are you pissing all over the dead Canadians' graves, but you're also taking a high moral ground that I doubt you can defend. When's the last time you did anything perfectly? Poster and mods: Get some perspective.
That new Unreal engine is just amazing, I can't wait to see all the modded games people make with it.
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
It all comes down to one thing: Is the game fun?
I'm totally in agreement with what a "true hard-core gamer" enjoys. Things like NES emulators were made for the "true hardcore gamer," cause you can still have a fun game in just 8-bit graphics!
But, as I've written before, "realism" has to be balanced with "fun." Having complete realism usually takes away from the fun. This is why I think the game will fail...
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
I think the better statement is "Not Invading Iraq to Keep Cheap Oil."
/. PT Crusier.
Iraq has a murderous dictator in charge who has waged genocide against his own people and is developing weapons of mass destruction. If we really were a country that believed in freedom and good will towards men, we would have bombed the shit out of Iraq years ago instead of letting millions die at the hands of Sadam.
Since people tend to believe in hollywood so much, just look back to Spider-man and the message that everyone was touting as being so grand, "Great power comes with great responsibility." We sure as hell have the power but we're just sitting around on our lazy asses so that we only have to pay $1.25 a galloon to drive the
int func(int a);
func((b += 3, b));
Comments like this is just plain stupid...Plus, I don't believe it's going to happen. The current administration is using "other means necessary" to stop any type of terrorist activity there. I don't think terrorism has a statute of limitations.
Sure it will. The current Bush administration has had a hard-on for Hussein since they first came to power. The last thing that Dubby wants is to be known as the second generation of Bush presidents who "failed to get the job done." Have you been watching the news lately? Have you been listening to Cheney during his almost weekly visits to "Meet the Press" where he talks about the evils of Iraq? It's going to happen, it's just simply a matter of timing now. Bush is just waiting for an excuse (liked failed negotiations on weapons inspectors).
AmericasArmy and GoArmy.com will have links to the download. BUT NOT CURRENTLY! The game is still in beta so don't even bother. We've been testing it for months as I work for the web group who does goarmy.com The game is truly awesome.
Heil Sig! -Rob
Geeze. You had it easy. When I was in the Army we got up at zero-dark-hundred.
Best Slashdot Co
Blah blah blah games blah blah turn the youth of America into violent hoolums blah blah blah parental restrictions blah blah blah Army blah blah ...
Army?? Blah blah blah?!? Uncle Sam??
Blah blah blah games GOOD! blah blah patriotic blah blah blah defeat evil blah blah blah WTC Guliani Let's Roll FDNY et al....
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
No president has ever been reelected to office following a war.
That may or may not be true as I haven't taken the time to check the stats, but either way it is irrelevant here. I very distinctly recall the elder president Bush's approval rating skyrocketing when the US invaded Iraq. And I very distinctly recall the younger president Bush's approval rating skyrocketing when the US invaded Afghanistan. So the notion that invading the lands of a "hated enemy" (even one that you yourself invented) boosts approval ratings is quite valid. As to your claim about reelection, that's not what we are discussing here.
I think the idea is that they are trying to get away from the whole 'cannon fodder' stereotype -- where any individual soldier is merely one more target in a wall of human targets, and nothing more.
<REGGAE>
Go to your brother
Kill him with your gun
Leave him lying in his uniform
Dying in the sun....
</REGGAE>
Did you ever play Cannon Fodder, or Cannon Fodder 2? Great games by Sensible Software, also authors of the best football (soccer) game ever. I can't recommend these games highly enough.
deus does not exist but if he does
yvan eht Nioj!
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
Didn't we already give terrorists the keys to the castle with Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000? Now we're showing them how to drive our tanks and humvees, and perform tactical raids?
Oh, no, we all understand the point of the game. We're all aware that it's just an interactive commercial for the military. What you seem to misunderstand is that's what we're making fun of.
As for true realism leading to failing games, I'm not sure that I agree. I'm playing Medal of Honor: Allied Assault online quite a bit, and I exclusively play Objective matches where if you did, you're dead until the next round starts. In that respect, I really enjoy the realism, because it gives death a meaning. If you want to play the game for a while, don't charge in immediately. Set up traps, go in groups, etc. Anything to keep yourself alive.
As for the Army's game, I'll wait until I see a demo of it. If it's well done, and if it really simulates reality, then I'll at least give it a try. Hell, it's free, why *wouldn't* you try it?
About 5 years ago there was a mod from the Marine Corps for Doom. Check out the story on Wired. I play it and it was actually more interesting than the original Doom. Me, I'm still waiting for Unreal Doom Quake, with Asia Carrera Skins.......
and Sim Invading Iraq to Keep Approval Ratings High
Please keep your snide unpatriotic comments to yourself when posting a story. Some of us have pride in our country and military. This remark belongs in a comment, not a posted story.
Personally, I don't know of any power grab that the Bush-Cheney gang have done that I don't agree with. Perhaps the most controversial, arresting and/or detaining ILLEGAL immigrants, is even acceptable. After all, that's what the government is SUPPOSED to do. If you ask me, they should step up the INS enforcement division and go after ALL illegal immigrants -- and either immediately kick them out of the country or detain them for up to two years if they have any interesting ties to fundamental islamic extreamist terrorists, which I believe is the legal length of time they can detain someone before kicking them out of the country (and was well before 9/11). I have nothing against LEGAL immigrants, and would have a problem if they started kicking out legal immigrants for no reason, but I believe even legal immigrants can be held for up to two years if there is some charge / belief that they may have broken the law and forfited their privelage of being a legal immigrant.
I agree with you insofar as most gamers probably don't want "true realism", however everybody has thier own definition of fun.
Take the Sims for example: Pointless to many, but the slow moving, not so mentally taxing, simulation is fun for millions of people. Nobody thought this was what the gaming community wanted, in part they were right. The traditional gaming community didn't want it, the people who had reasons to hate other games DID want a doll house game.
This seems to be on the other end of the Spectrum, for people who want a REAL challenge to see if they can survive the Army's simulation of REAL battle. Y
You're not interested to see how well you would par, or how quickly you can become the master of simulated modern warfare?
Sure, it goes against balancing ease with reality, but some people find overcoming the challenge to be fun.
"Communism is like having one [local] phone company " - Lenny Bruce
Sorry, real as it gets?
Get Real. Someone hits you in the arm or leg with a AK47 M16 or any other weapon and you will be damn lucky to be firing back, let alone mobile.
CS is as real as pac man is. The Army has the right track, too many stupid people playing CS think its a close representation of real combat. Nothing could be further from the truth.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Its a well-observed effect that scores of Americans on IQ tests have been rising about three points per decade since mass IQ tests were given to soldiers in WWI. This is called the "Flynn effect" after the sociologist who observed this. (IQ tests are now re-centered to make 100 "average" everage few years, like SAT now are.) This effect extends across every ethnic group. An average soldier during WWI would be considered slightly retarded today. The cause of this effect is attributed to the richer visual stimulation of new media like TV and video games. Modern people don't seem to have better factual knowledge than a century ago (wathc Jay Leno's streetwalking clips). But they seem to solve IQ test problems better.
Finally I can imagine that I'm strafing Korean civilians or at My Lai!
Nobody worships the military more than a peacetime civilian population with no personal experience of war.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
I have a great deal of respect for the military, but if using games as a recruiting tool doesn't qualify them as political speech, then what would?
If a candidate released a game that revolved around disrupting protests by groups campaigning again him, would that do it? Might be kind of a fun game. Like GTA3, except with special interest groups....
So the government can use games for recruiting, but apparently some Luddites still think they can't be used for communicating an opiniong?
Yeah, that makes sense....
some of us don't. Not everyone here on /. is American and even those that are could use some humour every now and again.
Troll maybe. Coward yes. No self-respecting person would put their name to such drivel.
nope. legal immigrants could not be held for two years before 9/11. part of the laws rushed through congress post attack did something like that. the FBI had its panties in a twist because they might have to follow the law and release "suspects" they had nothing to charge them with after a week or two. that was the law for any citizen, immigrant or not. we all know if you're suspected of being a terrorist the government has the right to throw you in county jail for a year *cough Wen Ho Lee cough* and never bring any real damning evidence against you. meanwhile you lose your job, relationships, money, health both physical and mental. maybe you get ass raped a couple times, but its okay, because the government doesn't fuck up and its more important to trample everybody's rights on the road to justice.
I am willing to risk a lot of karma points on this one, because I find it absolutely amazing that a load of people get so worked up about a comment that should be, IMO, thought provoking if anything.
Firstly I am absolutely against militaries of any nation glamourising wanton killing and making life seem as cheap as it is at the end of a barrel of a video game. I am probably stupid but I see a difference between a game company making a game for the market and that same company making a propaganda tool for the military (again, irrespective of what nation it is) because that is what this is: a propagnada PR tool.
I am very much against things like this because they make life cheap and they don't provide anything like a real picture of what a soldiers life is like (vis. the sim's comments "in the mess" etc) or why those wars are being fought (i.e. the ratings comments).
I AM NOT claiming that Saddam Hussein is a nice guy who should retire after his term of office and go and live in palm beach, but I very much do wonder why it seems like the god given duty of american politicians to drum up support, which is not forthcoming from anywhere outside the US, for the destruction of his fairly f*cked up regime? Especially since it was previous American administrations that allowed him to get as powerful as he is today and actively supported him in the early stages of the Iran Iraq war.
This game doesn't ask you to think why those previous administrations didn't give a flying f*ck about gassed Kurds because those same administrations were of the opinion (rightly or wrongly) that an independant Kurd nation would dangerous to the stability of the region. This is the point: no administration cares about freedom loving peoples or anything like that. Saddam's regime while definitely having built AND USED WMD in the Iran Iraq war on Iranians (where, again, no one gave a damn) is much more of propaganda demon, IMO, than he really is. The Gulf war was fought about oil, not about, freedom or WMD.
These games don't mention things like this or even ask you to make up your own mind or *search* for more information. That's why I dislike them.
FWIW, I worked for the USAF for two years in the '80s.
My point? err... Afghanistan, Iraq, Haiti, Korea, Vietnam, Iran. I'm sure there are plenty more, I don't pretend to be a military historian.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
Yeah Yeah, We all saw the Last Starfighter
If someone made a game, where you would be "playing" the "other side", planting bombs in buildings or flying planes into civilian buildings or perhaps even blowing yourself up in a shopping mall or doing mission training in a remote montainous country, would you play it?
A lot of games enable you to play both "sides".
SimPMCS
We were ALWAYS checking the condition of our equipment that would never get used between check intervals (weekly). I figured all Army equipment mearly dissolved to nothing in free air if left alone.
I actually joined the Canadian Armed Forces (Army), in part, due to my desire to create more accurate weapons simulations for Traveller and other RPG games.
In fact, during my service (was a Sargeant, in various engineer, infantry, and HQ units) I used my knowledge of practical military experience to develop better simulation methods for road, bridge, and boat building and demolitions for fantasy and SF RPGs.
One of my games even came to me after a six-week bridge building exercise in the Chilcotin mountain range in B.C.
So - while I understand why people might be upset by this (I'm no fan of Bush, even though I'm more of a Texan than he'll ever be) - you can't say this is that insidious.
And don't kid yourselves - some people in our administration (mostly combat-avoiding REMFs like Bush and Cheney) may be promoting this war for the wrong reasons - but it is a war we must not only fight, but win.
In fact, it infuriates me that we are prosecuting the war with attention only to the military side and ignoring actions such as cutting off their money flow for aid, education, supplies, training, and volunteers in such "allies" as Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, which are helping create the very terrorists attacking us, while they pretend they're not.
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--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
I'm with you and Michael - I'm a rifleman (no longer serving) in the Corps [Obligatory disagreement with your '*' :)]. I had a LOT of fun for those 8 years, learned a lot, basically enjoyed the hell out of it.
Personally I got a kick out of the 'coming soon' titles, and didn't find them offensive at all. Of course, I'm not sensitive about the mess-hall crack because we don't get mess-hall-medals in the corps (*snicker*!).
While I appreciate the respect Zeddicus and Livin4Golf have for the military and those who serve, you guys have got to lighten up a little. There is a lot of mindless BS that goes along with serving - and no one likes to feel like they've sandbagged.
Ctimes2
My cube. My friend. My solace. My prison.
"Army of aboot Eight"...
Actually, the Canadian pronunciation of "about" is closer to "a boat" than "a boot". (Read More...)
Will I retire or break 10K?
Or, perhaps, the FBI had it's panties in a twist because they were legally required to let legitimate suspects go free and disappear.
So let's see, it's wrong for the FBI to...
- Fail to detain suspects which intelligence suggests might have knowledge of future attacks
- Let suspects go free, because they might be involved in a future attack
- Detain suspects after an attack, because it's "tramping everybody's rights"
With bills such as the "Violent Video Game Protection Act" (Slashdot | CNN) becoming more prevalent in Congress, it is certainly interesting that this project was approved. I suppose that a "violent video game" is acceptable in the eyes of our government provided it propagates military propaganda. The inherent trivialization of human conflict and death is irrelevant, as long as little Billy applies to be a soldier.
If these inane bills are enacted, only first person shooters sponsored by the government will remain uncensored. Interesting.
Do you like German cars?
..even thought people know a soldier is risking there life, they hate to have that thrown at them.
That said, I'm looking forward to a game with this much realism. I know a game that requires thinking I will excel at. Runnning around in a pattern and shooting spawn point is nothing but a pretty version of Pac-Man.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The DoD is going full throttle on the recruitment deals now... First it was giving the Army access to public school registration records for recruitment purposes and now it's games... Now I wouldn't mind a game that was realistic, but this new game will probably glorify the Army (As Seen on TV(tm)). And I'm sure they'll definatly be a whole lot of "JOIN TODAY TO LIVE THE ADVENTURE" signs and such in the game as well... That's the type of recruiting that makes me sick... Selling it as the best thing in the world and then not living up to face value. If they're going to try and sell it, I'd wish they would at least do it realistically.
On another note, there doesn't seem to be very much information on the site:
While trying to retrieve the URL: http://www.americasarmy.com/
The following error was encountered:
* Connection Failed
The system returned:
(111) Connection refused
The remote host or network may be down. Please try the request again.
-Valen
Moderator makes comment implying that the President of the U.S. would attempt to boost his ratings by going to war with Iraq.
Iraq. You know, Saddam Hussein's playground. The place where the ruler gets to gas his citizens, invade his neighbours, and sponsor international terrorism.
I point out the sickness of the implication and *I'm* modded down?
Sick, I say. Sick.
668: Neighbour of the Beast
Durring the demo, the helicopters spooked the kangaroos as planned, and they ran off at lightning speed, only to regroup and come back at lightning speed and fire stinger shoulder-launched andti-aircraft missles back at the helicopters. A good example of how code reuse without thought can get you into trouble. At least the visitors thought it was funny.
Copyright Violation:"theft, piracy"::Anti-Trust Violation:"thermonuclear price terrorism"<-Overly dramatic language.
No president has ever been reelected to office following a war. Wrong. Truman and Eisenhower were both reelected following a war. Truman finished up WWII and was reelected in 1948, and Eisenhower finished up the Korean War and was reelected in 1956.
"Yes, they died for our freedom but that also includes the freedom to say what we want about them and criticize the government when we feel it's necessary. "
that also includes his freedom to get on a high horse.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Sim Standing Guard in the Rain will be a downloadable photograph with instructions that read: "Watch this photo for four hours and /DO NOT/ fall asleep!"
Computer Science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. --E. W. Dijkstra
With Epic on the job, I've no (or at least little) doubt the gameplay will be good, easily worth what I'll be paying for it. :-) That said, I just hope the propaganda is not blatant "The Army rocks, join the army, the army is your friend, being in the army is cool and fun." That's an idiotic approach. Far better is simply to emphasize the realism of your games in press releases, then make darn sure the games are fun and have a good storyline, which will encourage the player to identify with their side of the game - in this case, the military. Subtlety, that's the ticket. Oh, and maybe some ad banners in-game. Those I could deal with.
I'm the stranger...posting to
If they want to recruit people to the armed forces, there are cheaper ways:
0) if you go in the army for 2 years, it's legal for you to smoke pot.
1) Same as above, plus free t-shirt, $5 bucks, free beer, poster of an attractive pop star, etc...
They might not get the folks they want, but they'd sure get a lot of 'em!
sir_haxalot
stuff |
Can it be coincidence that the military is developing unmanned attack vehicles at the same time they are developing and promoting war games with realistic physics? Just yesterday, Boeing conducted the maiden flight of the X45A UCAV, an unmanned attack airplane that is designed to be shipped into a conflict region and flown in advance of manned aircraft. You can read about that at msnbc.com.
But as for these games, what better way to train people to control these vehicles than by getting young people to play them and master them in virtual form. Some day would you even know the difference if your networked war flight sim was really just a sim, or if the mission you thought you were flying virtually was actually being flown in some remote theater of battle.
If you really think about it has some very disturbing aspects. For one, imagine the level of detachment this allows a person. If you are flying a plane or driving a tank in the real world, seeing the innocent people living near your target might cause you to have second thoughts about hitting that target because you might kill innocents. But would you think twice about blowing up civilians in a game if that's what your mission called for? Probably not. It's just a game after all, right?
Now, of course if you knew the game you were playing was tied to events in reality, again, your morality might give you pause. But what if there was just a 1 in 100 chance that the events in the game were real. 1 in a 1000? At some point, you might stop worrying about it because you think it's just a game again. But imagine hundreds and thousands of 'soldiers' reporting for duty every day, with the only job being playing these war games for hours. It seems like a good way to commit acts that might be considered atrocities to the world without the moral and ethical concerns for the low level personnel.
It's kinda scary.
I will quite readily admit I am an "anti-gun" nut, but I see no problem with these games. They're games, not guns, and I'm got no problem with guns in the hands of the military. In fact, I'd like to see them get newer, better guns. It's guns in the hands of Joe Schmoe that worry me. That said, I think all sysadmins should be issued Uzis - the one perk of a grim, bleak existence.
I'm the stranger...posting to
Every combat soldier in Afganistan right now volunteered for the duty, according to the Air Force Reserve Lt. Colonel that came in to talk to my high school french class.
I'm the stranger...posting to
Roblimo and Micheal, as previously mentioned, were in the military, and I also know that there are more than a few military and ex-military people who read and post to /. So maybe a lot of it is just in fun?
I'm the stranger...posting to
I would be a bit pissed off if I was an American games company that was developing a similar game, having to compete with a product paid for at the taxpayer's expense and distributed for free in competition with my own product. Hell, I'd be mighty pissed off knowing that the sales tax from my games could be going to help create a direct competitor.
Actually, the Canadian Armed Forces decommissioned that entire parachute regiment.
And cashiered some of the officers.
Those of us serving at the time were proud that they took swift and decisive action in getting rid of bad apples.
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--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
He's right, it was Canadian militia transhipped by British Regulars and Marines with British transports.
And don't forget what happened the last three time the US invaded Canada - each time the US lost territory and suffered massive casualties against the Canadians, only to have the British give it back to the Yanks.
Try actually reading a real history book sometime, not just propaganda.
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--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
I read on the blurb for Soldiers:
"Adjust your soldier's personality and watch how it changes his decisions"
There are some very healthy lessons to be learned from that:
- That your decisions don't have to be knee-jerk reactions.
- That your decisions have long-reaching effects on your life.
- That if you want a good life, making the right decisions early is the best way to make it happen.
It seems that there are fewer and fewer chances for children to learn those lessons as time goes on. The thought of a million kids, each taking responsibility for making the most of their own life.... it seems too good to be true.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
The problem is that a person of average intelligence would be able to pass any "gun resposibility" course you might teach, but simply choose not to apply that knowledge once they are permitted to own a gun. Or, a person might pass the course, and then decide to use their gun to harm another human being. I have no doubt that you, sir, are responsible and sane. But is the benefit you gain from being able to own a gun - recreation - worth the consequences we face, should someone who should not have a gun get one? It's not "fair", but I would be willing to see millions of Americans deprived of their - admittedly - safe and responsible sport, if anti-gun legislation could keep just one gun out of the hands of a murderer or idiot. And the most effective anti-gun legislation would be one that completely bans guns for non-police or non-military use.
Frankly, your shotgun, rifle, or handgun would be next to useless against a government armed with missiles and assault weapons, should it choose to run amok. So that argument is just plain moot.
I'm the stranger...posting to