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PalmOS 5 Turns Gold
Stalke writes: "On sunday, PalmSource (the spinoff from Palm responsible for the development of the PalmOS) announced that PalmOS 5 has gone gold. This latest version of the operating system includes support for ARM processors, Bluetooth and 802.11b, high-res displays (320x320; although Sony already uses even high res displays in its NR70) and more. Products with PalmOS 5 should start shipping in just over a months' time!"
Wow first Moz now this. What next HURD getting done?
I'd do something interesting, but my server can't handle a slashdotting.
Well, as a staunch Palm user, I guess I should be happy. But what I want to do is grab Palm, shake them, and yell, "it's about goddamned time!" I mean, please...these are features that have been available in Linux for months, if not years!
This is just another example of a closed development model that can't cut it. Open the source, Palm! What are you afraid of?
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
no text
Does anyone know if the prices of the new devices will be in line with PocketPC devices, or something sane along the lines of current Palms?
Oooh, I love upgrading constantly. How can I upgrade my Palm M505 to PalmOS 5??? I can't live without having the newest and greatest thing!! I hope I don't have to go out and buy a whole new PDA!!
Huh??? It isn't even a proper RTOS. Calling it the premier embedded OS is silly and untrue. PalmOS has been a very very minor player in the embedded market. WinCE embeded almost certainly outsells by a factor of ten or more. Qnx is a far better canidate for the premier OS.
I'd do something interesting, but my server can't handle a slashdotting.
The thing I love most about the Palm and the PalmOs is that it works, that it's extremely simple and that it's extremely reliable.
I didn't like when they introduced colour and I care even less for all the fancy features promised with PalmOS 5.
Frankly, if the only direction is more colours, better resolution, more MP3, full feature video and other such assorted crap, then I guess it's time to ditch the Palm and go for a Symbian smart phone.
At least then, when the good old b&w simplicity of the V series is no more supported.
ich bin der musikant
mit taschenrechner in der hand
kraftwerk
I can't wait until palm OS goes plaid.
There's no "I" in Linux.. err..
WinCE has a tiny marketshare and is mainly confined to running the XBox. Just because PalmOS is Unix-based is no reason to shrug it off as "not a proper RTOS".
For reference, the hi-res support in OS/5 is not limited to 320x320 per say. Though it's likely that is what many devices will come out with, the choice is actually up to the OEM, but the API is reasonably generic so that it abstracts real screen pixels away from internal pixels.
As was clearly stated at the PalmSource conference back in February, the OS is equally suited to a 640x640 display or even the odd resolutions like 320x480 (like the NR70).
I have a Palm 3XE, can I upgrade my OS? And if so, is there any benefits in doing it, or would it only slow down my pda?
A message from the system administrator: 'I've upped my priority. Now up yours.'
It's not even unix like. QNX is unixy. PalmOS is on a par with DOS 6.2 for complexity.
So they went through the effort of taking out the 160x160 limitation, and replace it with another arbitrary fixed resolution? What genius came up with that idea?
How many copies did it have to sell to "go gold"? Using that figure, can we project when it will "go platinum"?
On "a" par with DOS 6.2, indeed. DOS doesn't even support command-completion.
Any NDA breakers out there?
I swear by MacOS X. Although I use to swear *at* MacOS 9...
did this silly company hire king midas?
everything is going gold around here...
|---------------|
practically an AC
the only reason things are going so well is the american players have gained a ton of experience in europe, and although I support the US team, I doubt we'll be seeing them in the quarter or semi finals.
Page 5 of today's NY Post (one of three major tabloids) featured as lovely a plug as Palm could hope for, leading me to wonder what may be the financial relationship between the Post and Palm.
It is in no sense "news" that Palm is releasing a new OS, and the fluff piece that they printed wouldn't be news under any circumstances.
Okay, this is exactly the kind of fear-mongering FUD that I am afraid of. Let me take this point-by-point.
Please, Palm, don't listen to this raving lunatic!
On the contrary, please do!
We have man-decades of work that depend on the reliability and low-cost of PalmOS.
Neither the reliability nor the low cost of PalmOS would be endangered by openning the source. Look at Linux: rock solid, and free as in dirt. Some projects that used to be closed source and then were openned have also become much more reliable as well as cheaper (obviously). Quake is a good example.
Opening the source will require us to make all that hard-won scientific knowledge available for free to the public.
I don't think you have read the GPL! Even if the tools you use are Open Source, you do not have to give away your data! The only exception is if your data is in the form of a program that statically links to GPLed software, and even that can be circumvented by using a tricky license like the BSD license.
How are we supposed to feed our families if Palm opens the source to PalmOS? With atoms?
Maybe this is a joke, but if you really are such a "physics genius" you should know that everything is made out of atoms: even food!
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
yes!!!
When are we going to see a new release of BeOS ?
Isn't about time the Palm OS provided threaded applications? My understanding it that it is build into the OS, but there are currently no APIs. In the Treo, at least, when you are on the phone, you can't continue to use your applications. It seems to me that this will put Palm OS at a disadvantage as PDAs are integrated with cell phones.
At least take the time to read a little before you post. The limit is not fixed..
Turn s60 photos into awesome videos with mScrapbook for all S60 3rd edition phones!
You know what this means.... time to port the AGI interpreters to Palm.... Space Quest II is comming to your handhelds!!!!
:)
It shouldn't even matter if your high-res screen doesn't support color.... Many of us used to play that game on a monochrome monitor in those days. The only part that really got unplayable (before I was stuck for 4 years, damn "rub berries on body"!) was the swamp-creature-with-vines-maze. It's easy on a color screen, because the lines ar pink-on-green, but on monochrome, it looked like jibberish.
What next, 3 buttons to click to open the menu to scroll down to the 'print format' action button?
I can't wait until it starts to blue screen.
Is this the version that includes the fine work of the former Be Inc. engineers? Or is that down the road a bit? The answer to that question would likely answer other people's questions about whether or not it is multithreaded. As far as opening the source goes...Palm probably has similar problems to Be Inc. in that too much of their OS depends on licensed code to open it up. Cheers.
s/SCREEN_RES/get_screen_res()/g
or more likely: s/160/get_screen_res()/g
As a Palm OS developer by trade I've been using the OS 5 development kits for about 4 months now since they were released at palm souce, and I must say that the end users really aren't going to get that much out of this latest release. Reasons being are that the ARM enhancements are designed as what are being called "armlets", small peices of code within the m68k code that is accellerated for an ARM proccessor. Palm isn't pushing native ARM applications which has pluses and minuses, new apps will still run on the older devices minus any armlet functionality, but the new ARM devices are going to have apps that are running slower than they should be do to the m68k -> arm translation. The other thing about this release new API, they've cleaned up a lot of the garbage and added a lot of new functionality so as a developer you got lots of more toys to place with, but as an end user don't expect this to be some holy grail of pda os's. Another downfall of Palms current plan for OS 5 is that they are targetting a handheld unit with a 66mhz arm proccessor, yes a 66mhz proc.. It's rediculous because the new xscale arcitechure which has 400mhz+ cpus has dropped the ARM prices dramatically. But anywho, I am excited to see a unit running OS 5.
Later,
Phil
When considering a PDA I considered that the PalmOS offerings really haven't come very far in the past few years. The only real advancements made were larger storage and more add ons. On the other hand PocketPC offerings offer much more and tend to have much more processing power to keep up with the latest and greatest software.
scott
Pimlico software make DateBk, which is a diary replacement because Palms own version is ... well, crap. It's just too limited when you compare it to Outlook.
As much as I don't like a company going down the pan, if Palm have done it right, Pimlico would find that they won't be able to sell DateBk on the new OS. Because Palm's own diary book should be so good, that people would have no reason to update.
I've said it many times, if Palm can get their new Datebook/Memo/ToDo/Address book to sync 100% with Outlook, then they're onto an instant winner. Just because the population of /. would avoid Outlook like the plague, doesn't mean the rest of the world does. If they can take an *exact* copy of their PC stuff on their new Palm, then they'll be a happy bunch.
(I'm led to believe that even PPC doesn't sync over everything - but at least it's more than Palm)
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There are two C/C++ development toolchains for Palm OS: Metrowerks CodeWarrior and what's called prc-tools, which is GCC, GDB, etc configured and patched as a cross-compiler for Palm OS. Some surveys suggest that each of them has about 50% of the market of Palm OS developers.
In the past, Palm OS SDKs have supported both toolchains: the 3.5 and 4.0 SDKs contained various linker (static) libraries in both CodeWarrior format and, for GCC, COFF format. The 4.0 SDK was even available from Palm as an RPM as well as a Unix tarball.
The 5.0 SDK's ReadMe has this to say about GCC:
There are no GCC libraries and no Unix SDKs.I've also posted to palm-dev-forum about this.
In practice, it's not a show-stopper: the header files, which are all you really need to use the new 5.0 APIs (notably high density graphics and ARM subroutines), work fine with GCC. There's a bit of extra pain on Unix due to line termination issues and PalmSource's lack of familiarity with case-sensitive filesystems, but it's not too bad.
The GCC link libraries are entirely missing from the 5.0 SDK. This is unfortunate: while you can easily write an application without using them, the glue routines in one of the libraries makes compatibility with various versions of the OS easier, and PalmSource recommends their use.
Curiously, while the ReadMe says the SDK "does not provide any support for [GCC]", PalmSource were happy to fix showstopper GCC-usage-related bugs in the SDK's header files when they were pointed out to them during the SDK's beta period. Thus the note in the ReadMe is not really true.
All that's really missing is the GCC linker libraries and the Unix builds of the SDK. Because they were happy to fix those header bugs, because their Web pages still claim to "support prc-tools", and because of what various PalmSource employees have told me, I don't believe there's been any conscious decision (or conspiracy :-)) not to support GCC. I think the problem is that, even
though the GCC library and Unix build scripts are still lying around from
the 4.0 SDK, it's simply nobody's job to take responsibility for maintaining
the scripts or for pressing the button that runs them.
It's all very disappointing: in all probability, there's no technical reason why the 5.0 SDK doesn't include GCC libraries or an easily installable Unix package, it's just that no-one cared enough to make them. It seems like it was always just Someone Else's Problem.
It's not too late to fix this. The company I work for and I know how to build these things (I wrote the scripts in a previous life :-)), and we've offered to help PalmSource build them several times. Hopefully they'll take us up on it, and make the users' lives easier.
Oh, disclaimer: I'm a prc-tools maintainer.
This is going too far. Too far!
First, it is not the LKML (Linux Kernel Mailing List) license. That is not a license! It's the GPL (GNU Public License) license!
Second, Richard (not Roger) Stallman is not trying to steal anyone's IP except his own.
Third, if you used Linux on your accelerator it would not go down as much! Sure, I need to reboot every day just like any Win-dozer, but I never get a blue screen of death! Also, Linux is not warez because it is free!
Fourth, there could be companies that would be there just for tech support. There aren't any now, but I'm sure there would be. Read the stuff ESR (Edgar S. Raymond, another Open Source advocate) writes if you want more information.
Fifth, "know-nothing OS programmer"...LOLOLOLOLOLOL! Oh my god that is a good one. Maybe you have not heard of someone called Linux Torvalds who invented Linux and has turned down offers to work for M$ also as a matter of principle. He is the most gifted programmer in the world and if you call him "know-nothing" then I would suggest that it is you who really knows nothing.
Karma: Good (despite my invention of the Karma: sig)
This rules! Now that they keep releasing these new devices with colour, mp3 players, and so on, I might be able to get an older device for next to nothing! A palm V for $50 would be nice...
/usr/games/fortune
I just got got the 4.1 upgrade last Friday! DOH!
You are not root, go away.
Troll. (If you want a little BeOS in your Palm, install Khroma and turn your form tabs orange!)
i wonder if it's poosible to dual boot the palm os on the sharp zaurus. not that it would be too useful, but a nice hack.
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
The issue is always tradeoffs.
The current generation palms have three outstanding aspects: small form factor, long battery life, simple and reliable data replication. These also are, in my opinion, the must-dos.
If they had meant to make more of a desktop replacement (like WinCE), they would have compromised these goals initially. In time, more features like multimedia capabilities can and should be added to the platform. If they did not, then (1) people would never upgrade their existing palms, and support would be reduced over time; (2) inevitably, a killer application will appear that they will be unable to support.
However, I would be sorely disappointed if these were done in a way which compromises the most important aspects of the system in order to "measure up" to the more ambitious and less successful competition. Nobody can beat Microsoft in an arena of its own choosing.
I'm optimistic, but I'll reserve judgement until I've actually tried some of the units.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
there are still zillions of palm apps that will still run...... personally i can see your point.... i like changing batteries every two months on my IIIxe, i like it not costing too much so when (not if, when) i break/lose it i won't be out too much cash.
that being said i think they need to upgrade. people want something smaller, color, and whatever else..... one thing i would like is a faster processor (color or b&w screen). the only times i have really thought "damn i wish i had a color display" was when i was in a strange city trying to read maps (try reading NYC subway maps in b&w). if i could get a better price on it i think i would buy a kyocera smartphone right now (locked into a contract). it's a little smaller than my IIIxe and it's the same processor/memory. it incorporates dialing from the phonebook, and can go online to get movie times or whatever. i hate having a phone list in my phone and in my palm. granted they can be merged now, but it's only going to be easier with the new OS.
has anything confirmed that ALL palms will be ARM with OS5? i got the impression it was going to be a slow rollout.... they might keep making B&W palms because the price cant be beat. i'm sure a lot of apps will be written with color in mind, but if you only use it as an organizer with a few extra features... who cares? you probably dont need to upgrade anytime soon. people still run Apple Newtons, so i think a Palm V has a long life left in it.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I've always wanted to meet Edgar S. Raymond and Linux Torvalds but not Roger Stallman.
--
As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.
I commonly use the notepad, address book and other apps while on my Treo (180).
It's one of the reasons I like it so much, jot notes while talking on the phone.
No you can't web surf at the same time, but that's a limitation of the wireless service, not the PalmOS.
In the early days of the Palm Pilot, all was shiny and new. Developers loved it, and cranked out tons of shareware and freeware. All the software expanded its scope far beyond being just a PDA.
;), and added some yummy Java. They ran a beta version past developers, who enthusiastically saluted, and released it this spring in the US. Like in the Palm's youth, applications are being rapidly developed for it (and anything that doesn't get away quickly enough is getting ported).
Some of the original people left the company to found Handspring. They created the Springboard module for their PDAs, and everything was exciting again. Palm *followed* by adding a SD card to their PDAs. Instead of market leader, Palm became market imitator. In fact, their attempt at OS X desktop software (version 4.0) was so bad that Handspring was recommending that their Mac customers stick with version 2.* under Classic! Then again, Handspring abandoned the Springboard, leaving the Palm world pretty dull except for some of Sony's hardware.
So, does that leave us with Microsoft? Hardly! Some time ago, Microsoft drove Sharp out of the US market (basically Sharp wasn't going to play umpteenth fiddle in the Pocket PC world in the US, and so took its toys home in a huff). Sharp worked hard back in Japan, and built themselves up into the leading PDA there, with enough marketshare to become the fifth largest PDA maker in the world. Still Sharp wanted to come back to the US with a bang, so they decided to carve out their own niche that they could be #1 in. Taking a page out of Apple's book, Sharp built their best Zaurus ever and took an open source operating system (Linux), a very cool GUI (hey, Qtopia isn't Aqua, but it leaves other PDA GUIs looking, well, flat
I've got a Palm III and a Handspring Visor Platinum. My Zaurus blows them away. There is really no comparison. The Zaurus is a tiny but real multiprocessing Linux workstation that is a worthy companion to my OS X Macs. It coexists beautifully on my Airport network, sharing files (via FTP) with my Macs and browsing the web with a real browser capable of reading Slashdot (not those dinky postage stamp "pages" for PDAs). It can read and write Word and Excel files (even those created in AppleWorks). It can view pictures from my digital camera, play MP3s, and even view a GMK trailer ("Honey, I shrunk Godzilla and Mothra!";). I can create full tar'ed backups with a couple of taps, and use FTP and my G4 iMac to back the backups up on a CD.
The one thing the Zaurus lacks is a desktop with sync support under OS X. I only use the Zaurus with my Macs and I'm not missing the ability to sync. In fact, I use the cradle as a charging station, I've never plugged the USB cable into anything. The Zaurus is powerful enough to stand on its own as long as you do backups often. If Sharp and Trolltech never get the Mac support done, a third party could write what they need, since the data is stored in XML and both the Zaurus and OS X have good Java support. Wireless syncing via Java would be more fun anyway.
"The path of peace is yours to discover for eternity."
"Mosura", 1961
> Three of the teams in your group arn't from anywhere near Europe. What, you need a map too?
ummm.... Portugal is from ? (checking the map)... according to my map, it is still in Europe. Were there any major earth geographical changes that I'm not aware of ?
And that whole..'Poland' country is kind of European if I remember right..
Turn s60 photos into awesome videos with mScrapbook for all S60 3rd edition phones!
Roger Stallman. Nice touch.
Anyone know the details of whether current Palm models (m5xx) will be supported for a possible upgrade to version 5?
Yes. It has. Which is why, after using a Palm for a year or so (it was a freebie with my job) I switched to a Pocket PC when I bought my own. Palms are cute, but IMO little more than an electronic pocket notepad. My iPaq is like a pocket sized laptop.
"Peace through superior firepower."
I don't know where you get this 66Mhz ARM from. Intel, TI, Motorola, and now QMedia are all porting Palm OS to run on their latest ARM based CPUs. It's well known that they are offering: Xscale(V5 instruction set) Omap(926T core) Dragonball(920T core) Qmedia's cpu is ? Anyway, all of these puppies run at 150MHz plus.
W.A.S.T.E.
I'll second everything Melantha said and add:
.class files to the Zaurus via my CompactFlash setup and run them from a linux terminal.
Your choices for getting files to & from a Zaurus aren't just FTP via networking or the cradle. The Zaurus comes with both CompactFlash and SD/MMC slots, and you can get USB adapters for both. I run Windows XP at home and when I plug the CompactFlash adapter into the USB port it just appears as another drive. This is how I copy files, backups, etc. back and forth. The CompactFlash is also nice since my digital camera works with it, I can take pictures then slap the card into the Zaurus to show others the pictures since the Zaurus screen is much more viewable than the digital camera.
The "low-level" API for GUI development is QT/embedded. Embedded means that they take the same C++ API you use for Windows or X11 development and ported it to talk directly to the framebuffer. Any QT program is (theoritically, anyway) capable of being ported to the Zaurus.
What I'm most psyched about is the Java support. It's PersonalJava, which is mostly 1.1 with some 1.2 enhancements here and there. This is in contrast to Palm Java development, which is J2ME based (Sun hasn't supported the KVM for a while), and you need to set up emulators, get ROMs, make sure you have the special J2ME UI libraries, etc. Did I also mention most of this stuff is for Windows only? Melantha would be SOL with a MAC. For the Zaurus I just compile and run what I want and just stick to 1.1. If I'm patient I can then package my class files, icons for the PDA desktop, etc. and "install" it, but most of the time I'm impatient and just copy my
To make a long story short, with the Zaurus I have a PDA and a "hand-held desktop" I can quickly develop my own programs for. I'm never going back to Palm.
that's the funniest thing I've ever read!
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.